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Stovetop Cookware - Pyroceram or Visions

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Hi,

I'm interested in purchasing a stovetop cookware and I'm little confused between Pyroceram and Visions. Both seem to be old brands which was reintroduced recently.
They both seem to have the same functions. So except for the looks does anyone know other than the looks; which is better in terms of quality? I dont mind any look both white and transperent is okay; but I'm looking more for quality and ability to absorb thermal shock.

Thanks.

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  1. DW had some of the old Visions cookware when we got married. She hated it. She said everything stuck to it and it was a pain to clean. She wouldn't even pack it up when she moved here. I believe it went into the trash.

    6 Replies
    1. re: al b. darned

      Thanks. Is there some other good brand? I have also heard about Borcam but not sure whefre to purchase it in united states. I'm only looking for reheating and serving purpose. Hence I need something that works in microwave or stove top.
      Any other ideas? Thanks

      1. re: pkmeeta

        If you are only interested in reheating, I can't think of anything that can't be reheated in the microwave with results at least as good as you'd get on the stove. Actually, in many cases the microwave works better. I can't remember the last time I reheated anything on my stove. So maybe there is no need to consider stovetop performance at all. That's good, because my own and observed experience with glass on the stovetop is very poor, and it is just true that neither material lends itself very well common cooking techniques such as sauteeing or stir-frying. They are slow to heat, slow to cool, and are subject to breaking and problems with thermal shock.

        If all you are going to do is reheat and serve, and decide to stick with using a microwave for that, you can get some ceramic or glass casseroles, and probably pay less than for cookware.

        1. re: PinchOfSalt

          Metal heats up well in stovetop, but food in metal containers do not heated up effectively in microwave. Metal blocks the penetration of microwave, which is why your microwave oven casing is metal..... so the microwave won't be bouncing in your house.

          I do agree with you 100% that glass is a very poor heat conductor which may explain why it is no longer popular.

          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

            Well yes, but I was suggesting that if the only thing that the cookware was being used for, to go with something that would not work on the stove at all but would be great in the microwave. At no point did I suggest that the OP should use any metal cookware or servingware, nor did the OP.

            1. re: PinchOfSalt

              :)

              Just teasing you

            2. re: Chemicalkinetics

              "which may explain why it is no longer popular. "

              If you are judging popularity by sales, it could be that Visions appeared to be less popular because it was not available after World Kitchen acquired Corning Ware around 2000 until it was reintroduced in 2009. It has been said that World Kitchen wanted a product that did not last as long, and they were able to make more money by selling large sets of stoneware to brides.

              I was only aware very recently that it had been reintroduced. It used to be available in the United States in virtually every store that sold cooking products, and it was quite reasonably priced. As far as I know, you can only buy it over the web in the United States. I have not seen it in a store in well over 10 years.

              Visions cookware is readily available on Amazon UK, but that involves shipping costs. It is manufactured in France these days.

              The reintroduced model does seem to have a different manufacturing process. I certainly hope it did not screw up the cooking properties of the original Visions.

      2. pkmeeta: With respect, why on earth would you want to cook on the stovetop in this stuff? In a world full of bad pots and pans, you seem to be focusing on two of the very worst ever made. Why?

        That said, there is apparently a difference that matters to your thermal shock concern: See, http://www.epinions.com/content_47048...

        10 Replies
        1. re: kaleokahu

          Because of health I think

          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

            Chem: Maybe. The OP has said s/he is only interested in something for "reheating and serving" purposes. Even I--one who thinks PTFE may be a health hazard--think this is a little bizarre. What does this person think the food that will be reheated or served was processed/cooked/packaged in to begin with?

            There is an immortal urban myth that goes something like: cooking in glass is the only way to "preserve the vitamins" in food. My guess is it's this again. Or a family member who swears by Visions. Or a misconception that glass is somehow cleaner.

            Here's what a fellow CHer had to say about cooking on Corning about a year ago:

            "I've used this piece a few times now and cooking on glass is a very different experience. The heat transfer properties aren't all that great tbh and so I wouldn't recommend this material for anything other than for small amounts 'warming up'. I can certainly see why this material has fallen out of use! It really does seem to suck up heat energy and just magically lose it somewhere, boiling water seems to take forever and requires much more heat to do so. The sides of the pan not in direct heat contact will stay cool for ages which cools the contents back down just as the base will begin to scorch even though it is by far the thickest base I have (roughly 1cm). Also I think because surface is so smooth when liquids do get to boiling point the bubbles don't appear to form in tiny evenly distributed amounts, but in rather large and random spitting pops. Not quite the ideal pan for sugar work despite the colour... Still, it does look nice in kitchen and will just about warm things adequately enough to warrant a place among my collection, at least for now."

            1. re: kaleokahu

              "cooking in glass is the only way to "preserve the vitamins" in food. "

              I have not heard of that. What I heard of is that glass is the safest material for warming/cooking foods because there are least amount of stuffs leaching into the foods. Teflon cookware is dangerous because Teflon. Cast iron and carbon steel cookware are dangerous because of excessive iron. Stainless steel because of chromium and nickel... etc.

              "I've used this piece a few times now and cooking on glass is a very different experience. The heat transfer properties aren't all that great tbh and so I wouldn't recommend this material for anything other than for small amounts 'warming up'....."

              Ha ha ha. I remember. It was Pass. In fact, I was in that thread. I was thinking of pass to when I was responding to PinchofSalt. :)

              http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/684700

          2. re: kaleokahu

            After having read that article, I'm a bit sad (or P.O.ed) that another great product is no longer available to consumers. One of my sisters uses some of our Mothers Corningware that dates back to at least the 1960's.

            When it came time for me to set up by fist kitchen in the early 80's , I purchased pyrex casserole dishes (1 qt. 2. qt. 3 qt, along with the square 9s9 pan and 10x13 rectangular pan. They have all be used extensively over the years and other than some very fine scratches are as good as the day I bought them at Lechmere's Dept. store.

            Of course, the Pyrex is not the same either. In their days this cookware was inexpensive, effective and in every home kitchen.

            Funny story, I really wanted to buy the Visions cookware because it looked cool and ended up buying the old heavier Revereware. You almost never see visions cookwear anymore.

            1. re: redrako

              redrako: You are right; it can be sad to see the state of art in cookware in mindless retreat.

              I have quite a lot of old Pyrex and Corningware ramekins, chafing dishes, casseroles and baking pans, and they work great IN THE OVEN. Stovetop use? Not so much.

              1. re: kaleokahu

                thank you all for the suggestions.
                So I do agree that I would get a lot of better products that microwaveable; but for some reason; I dont like microwaveable products. I try to avoid it as much as possible. Only when I'm in a hurry; I microwave. One more reason and its probably in my head. Food that is microwaved does not taste that good as cooked on stove. I do cook a lot of Indian gravy dishes.
                So i was looking for something that can be reheated and served and would look good. I do have Le crueset which I like a lot; but its too heavy and with food; I'm always scared that I would drop it. So I was looking for some other options.
                Any other suggestions which will help me reheat food on stove top as well as serve on table.

                1. re: pkmeeta

                  I see. You want a vessel which can be used to cook on a stovetop as well as reheated in a microave oven, right? In that case, I guess these glass/ceramic ware is not too bad.

                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                    okay great! thanks

                  2. re: pkmeeta

                    pkmeeta: Sorry, I still don't understand. Your initial post said nothing about microwave, and your second said "microwave OR stovetop" reheating. Now you say you don't like micowaveable products, that you avoid it, and you cook a lot of Indian gravy dishes..

                    If I were you, I would have a set of microwaveable glass BOWLS for your hurried reheating in the MW, and real cookware for your stovetop. Since you don't like heavy things, perhaps a small aluminum DO or braising pan would suit you.

                    1. re: kaleokahu

                      I agree with Kaleo. The glass stuff is horrible for the stovetop, as was the old Corningware (pyroceram). There are lightweight pans for the stove. There are glass containers for reheating in the micro. I don't see glass as a good option for both uses. I hope you find some good solutions for yourself.

            2. I have a 2 qt. Visions covered saucepan I like to use on the stovetop to cook rice. I can see when the water has been used up. My 5 qt. Visions Dutch oven works great in the oven.

              1. This is quite a late reply, but I have strong opinions on the subject and I have not seen those opinions represented above.

                I miss the ready availability of cookware that you can use on the top of the stove, in the oven, and in the microwave. There are quite a few things for which starting with one heat source and continuing with a different heat source is the way to go.

                I bring polenta to a boil on the stovetop, and once it is a thick, smooth porridge, I put it in the microwave to continue to cook. You do not need to stir very often, if at all, in the microwave.

                I like to warm up thick cold food, say a stew, in the microwave and then put it on the stovetop when it is liquid to get it really hot quickly.

                I could go on, but I'm sure you understand.

                I am wildly enthusiastic about the cooking properties of Visions. It is been compared to cast iron and I agree. It is wonderful, but it does occasionally chip and break when dropped. It was never all that expensive, and when I could just go out and buy another piece, that was not a major problem. But, alas, it disappeared.

                I do not like the cooking properties of the original Corning Ware, now called Pyroceram. I would compare it to thin metal, but it does have the advantage that you can use it with the different heat sources. If you are careful to use low heat on the burner, or stir all the time, it is fine for cooking.

                I believe that it is more chip and break resistant than Visions, but I really do not have good statistical evidence for that. I had a lot of Visions Cookware and I used a lot; I had very little Corning Ware, and basically did not use it while Visions was readily available.

                11 Replies
                1. re: ppllkk

                  At some point in my life I used Visions Cookware. Probably in the 1970s. I thought it conducted heat poorly. It burned stuff.

                  If the newer versions are better, then I stand corrected. But I would never buy if for myself, even if I still had my regular electric cook top.

                  1. re: sueatmo

                    None of these glass-based cookware can have good conductivity compare to metals. I doubt there is much improvement in that area.

                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                      There is a sense in which cast iron does not have "good conductivity" even though it is a metal, but many of us still regarded it as ideal for transferring heat for cooking.

                      Visions Is very close to cast iron in Its cooking properties. I have never desired any improvement.

                      I was quite surprised by this forum, because everyone that I know really liked Visions and regretted its disappearance.

                    2. re: sueatmo

                      It conducts heat very much the way that cast iron does. If you do not like the way that cast iron conducts heat, then you will not like Visions. I really like cast iron except for the fact that you can't simmer acid ingredients in it for a long time.

                      If you burn stuff in cast iron, then I expect that you would burn stuff in Visions. I have not had that experience. Rather the opposite. Very easy to sauté vegetables for a long time; very easy to simmer stews for a long time.

                      I do not think that there are new versions.

                      1. re: ppllkk

                        Actually I have used cast iron for decades. But I pitched my Visions long, long ago. Just to make sure we are posting about the same stuff--Visions is that brownish glass cookware that can go from stovetop to fridge to micro?

                        I really can't imagine how the two are similar. Perhaps you could be more specific?

                        1. re: sueatmo

                          Oh yes, we are talking about the same thing. I have used it regularly for over 30 years. I have used it a little less frequently in the past few years as pieces got broken and I wanted to preserve the ones that are left.

                          You can buy used pieces on the Internet, but when you take shipping into account, they tend to be expensive. I recently bought a 3 1/2 L pot on eBay. Since its reintroduction, the manufacturer does sell new ones, but once again, they screw you on the shipping. (I only learned that Visions is available new very recently.) In stores, they used to be quite reasonably priced particularly in sets.

                          If you look around the Internet, you will find that Visions has a lot of fans.

                          I don't think I can be eloquent about cooking properties. Cast-iron takes a while to heat up, but it produces a very even heat. It keeps its temperature well on a high flame, and it sautes beautifully on a low flame. The same is true of Visions.

                          Friends of mine have been equally enthusiastic about Visions.

                          1. re: ppllkk

                            <I don't think I can be eloquent about cooking properties. Cast-iron takes a while to heat up, but it produces a very even heat. It keeps its temperature well on a high flame, and it sautes beautifully on a low flame. The same is true of Visions.>

                            Glass and cast iron are very different. One is an insulator, and one is a metal. This is not only true for heat, but also true for electric. They are not similar in many aspects. I don't mean that they are different like red wine vs white wine. They are different like comparing red wine to gasoline.

                            Just look at thermal diffusivity, copper and aluminum are about the same at 100 mm^2/s. Cast iron is about 4 fold lower at 23 mm^2/s. Glass is much different. Glass is 0.34 mm^2/s. That is 70 folds lower than cast iron -- a vast difference.

                            Glass retains heat well. This is true, but glass does not produce a very even heating surface, and definitely does not saute beautifully on a low flame.

                            <Friends of mine have been equally enthusiastic about Visions.>

                            I honesty think people just like what is rare and what no longer exist. When aluminum was rare to produce, people really love it. Now, aluminum is cheap and abundance for cookware, then no one really jumps up and down for it. Yet, aluminum has always been aluminum. Nothing changes.

                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                              "Glass and cast iron are very different."

                              Glass and Visions are very different. Did it not occur to you that you cannot just put glass on a burner? Not even Pyrex. Visions is, I believe, classified as a glass-ceramic material.

                              "This is true, but glass does not produce a very even heating surface, and definitely does not saute beautifully on a low flame."

                              I don't know about that, I have never tried to sauté anything in glass. What I am telling you is that it is very easy to sauté in Corning Ware Visions. That is a consistent experience over a long period of time. It is an empirical observation. I gather that your only such observation was a long time ago.

                              "I honesty think people just like what is rare and what no longer exist."

                              Whatever truth there is to that, the enthusiasm about Visions was when it was readily available.

                              1. re: ppllkk

                                Sorry, no offense was meant. You are correct that Vision is not just any type of glass and most glasses would just crack.

                                <classified as a glass-ceramic material>

                                You are correct, but neither glass nor ceramic is consider to be great heat conductor.

                                <definitely does not saute beautifully on a low flame.>

                                I meant that saute should be done on a high flame high heat. Vision being a good or bad heat conductor should not change this. For example, wok stir frying should be done in high heat and in quick motion. It really should not matter if I use a cast iron wok or an aluminum wok. That basic cooking technique should be consistent.

                                <I gather that your only such observation was a long time ago.>

                                That is true. I have only used Vision a long time ago.

                                I am glad that you like Vision. I love all kind of cookware for different reasons. Aluminum for the quick heat response. Carbon steel for the almost-non-stick property. I also love my stone cookware which is a very poor heat conductor, but it is fun.

                                http://www.chowstatic.com/uploads/4/1...

                                http://www.chowstatic.com/uploads/1/2...

                                I also have sand pots.

                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                  "You are correct, but neither glass nor ceramic is consider to be great heat conductor."

                                  I don't believe that I ever said it was a great heat conductor. I said that it was a great material for cooking pots. As is cast iron which is also not a great conductor. They have very similar cooking characteristics.

                                  "I meant that saute should be done on a high flame high heat."

                                  You are correct. I think that I used "sauté" first, but it was the wrong term. I was misled by all the cookbooks that tell you to "sauté onions, celery, carrots, etc." over a low heat. Visions is really great for cooking over a low heat.

                                  Some of the same cookbooks tell you to "simmer covered until reduced by half, about half an hour."

                                  "I also love my stone cookware which is a very poor heat conductor, but it is fun."

                                  I have always thought that the issue was how evenly the heat was distributed, not how quickly. Particularly for softening vegetables, simmering stews, brazing, and similar things.

                    3. re: ppllkk

                      I would like to mention that one of my favorite ways to use the 4.5 L Visions Dutch oven is in my crockpot. Luckily, it fits perfectly. The original crockpot pot cannot be used on the stove.

                      So, I can brown meat, sweat vegetables, bring the entire thing up to a boil, and put it into the crockpot to cook. No stirring needed. Gentle heat all the way around it. And it cooks in the same amount of time that it would on the stovetop or in the oven.

                      This is easier and faster than transferring the boiling stew to the pot that came with the crockpot.

                    4. "In 2009, the stovetop line of CorningWare was reintroduced by World Kitchens. The cookware is manufactured by Keraglass/Eurokera (a subsidiary of Corning also specialised in vitroceramics for cooktop panels and equipment for laboratories) in Bagneaux-Sur-Loing, France. This is the only factory in the world still manufacturing vitroceramics (aluminosilicate glass) for cookware. At the time it restarted the production of CorningWare, Keraglass/Eurokera was able to abandon the use of arsenic in the manufacture of their vitroceramics, thanks to the modern technology of their newly built oven.
                      In Europe, it is ARC who sells equivalent cookware to CorningWare under the name Pyroflam with a slightly different design. Since 2009, Pyroflam has been manufactured in the same French factory as CorningWare.
                      The lids of CorningWare and Pyroflam are not made of vitroceramic material. The lids of pieces in the Visions and Pyroflam Amber lines are made soda-lime glass, and lids for the white collection are made of borosilicate glass. Unlike the vitroceramic cookware, these lids cannot touch burners or fire directly, but they do fine in the oven (if not touching the source of heat) or on the stovetop, as long as they are over their vitroceramic bases.
                      CorningWare is sold worldwide, and it is popular in Canada, United States, and Australia."

                      I am quoting from an article in Wikipedia regarding Corning Ware. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CorningWare

                      Apparently the older pyroceram vessels used arsenic in their manufacture? And the lids of the new vessels are NOT made of pyroceram.

                      Honestly, I don't know why anyone would prefer this stuff to a good stainless pot, but to each his own.

                      1 Reply
                      1. re: sueatmo

                        The terminology is inconsistent and confusing.

                        "Visions cookware was also called Pyroceram at times and the backstamps of Centura and Suprema restaurant ware also contain the word "Pyroceram". These products are not Corning Ware. So Pyroceram is just a brand name that encompasses the entire family of glass-ceramics rather than one specific formulation."

                        "The progress made in this earlier project led directly to Visions stovetop ware, an amber-hued transparent glass-ceramic. The official name of Visions glass is Calexium and it was developed at Corning in France. The product line became available in France in the late 1970s, and it entered the North American market in 1983."

                        http://www.corellecorner.com/company-...

                        Pyroflam seems to be the brand name under which the equivalent of the old Corning Wear "cornflower" is now sold. Visions is also sold. They are not the same.

                        http://www.shopworldkitchen.com/bakew...

                        Look for Pyroceram in the description. They are there among the Pyrex.

                        http://www.shopworldkitchen.com/visions/

                        This is Visions. They are completely different products.

                        "Honestly, I don't know why anyone would prefer this stuff to a good stainless pot..."

                        Stainless steel pots with a thick layer of aluminum on the base can be quite good for a stew, but I prefer enameled cast-iron or Visions.

                      2. I LOVE my Corning Pyroceram! It's true that i use it mostly in the oven, but I do like that I can start sautéing on the stovetop and finish in the oven. I don't use a microwave because I can not stand how the texture and flavor of food is affected by it, so I don't know how Pyroceram works in a microwave, I find the Pyroceram perfect for oven egg dishes and the lower temperature baking, and use the Staub cast iron for the higher temp baking/roasting.

                        32 Replies
                        1. re: laraffinee

                          The situation is confusing, but Corning Pyroceram and Corning Ware Visions are completely different products with very different cooking characteristics.

                          Corning Ware Visions is great for stovetop use and everywhere else. I find that Corning Pyroceram is trickier to use. It works better on low heat and you have to be careful or it will burn.

                          For me, being able to go from the stovetop to the microwave, or vice versa, or stovetop to oven or vice versa, is very useful.

                          I'm quite interested in your comment that the microwave changes the way food tastes. I am not at all making fun of you, but some people claim that their cats can tell if their refrigerated food has been microwaved, and they don't like it. I did not really believe that until now.

                          1. re: ppllkk

                            ppllkk - as far as the taste of microwaved food, I bet I could win a taste test distinguishing microwaved food from stovetop cooked food - actually I be a lot of us could. It's simple physics - the structure of the food is affected differently.

                          2. re: laraffinee

                            Hi, Lara: " It's true that i use it mostly in the oven, but I do like that I can start sautéing on the stovetop and finish in the oven."

                            Most all pans can do both those things, right?

                            I've yet to hear how Visions is advantageous or superior in any way when it comes to actual stovetop cooking. In what ways do you think it's better than anything else?

                            Aloha,
                            Kaleo

                            I think you also need to be mindful of breakage danger with Visions. See, http://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/85531/i...

                            1. re: kaleokahu

                              "I've yet to hear how Visions is advantageous or superior in any way when it comes to actual stovetop cooking. In what ways do you think it's better than anything else? "

                              As I understand it, she is not talking about Visions. She is talking about the latest version of the Cornflower Corning Ware. Do you still not understand that they are not the same?

                              You most certainly have heard about the cooking properties of Visions because I have told you repeatedly. It's cooking properties are very much like cast-iron and it is a pleasure to use.

                              I have never claimed that it was superior to cast iron or enameled cast-iron, or stainless steel with a heavy aluminum base. It is about the same and certainly not inferior to any of them.

                              It's big advantage is that you can use it in the microwave.

                              The disadvantage of cast iron is that you cannot cook acid ingredients in it for a long time. This disadvantage of enameled cast-iron is its price. When Visions first came out, it was clearly superior to reasonably priced stainless steel pots.

                              1. re: ppllkk

                                Hi, ppllkk:

                                We disagree. The cooking properties of CI and the glass that Corning uses to make Visions are quite different. Both their conductivity and diffusivity are different by an approximate factor of 70. You cannot use high heat settings under Visions, but you can with CI. One takes no seasoning; the other does. One the fat runs through the jus, the other doesn't. One chips easily, the other is very hard to break.

                                I'm now interested in your latest whopper: "It [Visions] is about the same and certainly not inferior to any of them [CI, ECI, SS-with Al disk]." Visions *is* clearly inferior to *all* of them in any stovetop application where even heat, responsiveness, the ability to quickly dump heat into food, and the ability to reheat quickly matter or are desirable. In my book that is the vast majority of stovetop cooking.

                                I am not following you on price. You seem to claim that it's expensive to ship Visions pans. Here's the biggest Visions pan I can find. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Visions-CORNI... It's $20, and to ship it from Missouri to Seattle is <$13. Here's a 6Q ECI dutch oven for $115. http://www.lodgemfg.com/enameled-cast... It costs $24 to ship, but you can buy it pretty much everywhere and save yourself all shipping.

                                There was plenty of reasonably priced SS pans in the 1970s that were head and shoulders above Visions, sorry.

                                Aloha,
                                Kaleo

                                1. re: kaleokahu

                                  "You cannot use high heat settings under Visions, but you can with CI."

                                  You really have no idea what you are talking about. Watch this video.

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gjMks...

                                  The aluminum saucepan melts quite evenly.

                                  "Visions *is* clearly inferior to *all* of them in any stovetop application"

                                  You're entitled to your opinion, and I understand you are not going to change your mind, but that has not been my experience.

                                  Mostly, I want cookware that heats evenly, and Vision excels at that.

                                  I would not use either Visions or cast iron to heat up something that is mostly liquid quickly. You can do that in the cheapest aluminum saucepan that you can find.

                                  I would not use either Visions or cast iron if I required instantly responsive heat. I don't find that comes up all that often.

                                  I take it that you do not think of long stovetop simmering without having to stir all the time as important.

                                  "I am not following you on price. You seem to claim that it's expensive to ship Visions pans. Here's the biggest Visions pan I can find. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Visions-CORNI... It's $20, and to ship it from Missouri to Seattle is <$13."

                                  If that is the biggest Visions pan you could find, you did not look very hard. It is 1.5 L, the big ones are 4.5 L. Shipping adds a cost that you did not have to pay when you bought them in a store. One of their selling points was that they were quite moderately priced particularly in sets.

                                  1. re: ppllkk

                                    Hi, ppllkk:

                                    Great. If it stands up to heat so well, try deep frying, popping popcorn, preheating it in the MW, or making candy in your Visions. Just stand back. And wear goggles. Note that there are what look to be two Visions pans shown as having exploded in the following CBS HealthWatch segment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuAhWI...

                                    The reason it was unavailable for so long was there was a class action lawsuit and a recall. People were getting hurt.

                                    This stuff is *still* very inexpensive, because IMO it's utter crap. Ebay is FULL of the discards no one wants, and at extremely low prices. It's not super heavy, so shipping is just what shipping is.

                                    Oh, here's a 4.5L Visions "stockpot", costing $16.40 to ship http://www.ebay.com/itm/Corning-Ware-...

                                    Aloha,
                                    Kaleo

                                    1. re: kaleokahu

                                      "Great. If it stands up to heat so well,"

                                      It stood up to melting an aluminum saucepan.

                                      "try deep frying, popping popcorn, preheating it in the MW, or making candy in your Visions."

                                      You can't make candy in it. It will crack because of differential cooling rates, not because of the heat.
                                      I can't imagine why anyone would preheat it in the microwave.
                                      Making popcorn should work if you preheated it.
                                      I don't know why deep fat frying would not work. I use cast-iron.

                                      Visions seems to have been developed precisely to stand up to the higher temperatures of French stoves.

                                      "The reason it was unavailable for so long was there was a class action lawsuit and a recall. People were getting hurt."

                                      I have never read that it was discontinued because of a lawsuit. Can you document that there was a class-action lawsuit and how it was resolved?

                                      Visions was discontinued, as was the Cornflower line, after World Kitchen bought that part of Corning Just when was this lawsuit, and why do you think there was a connection between that and discontinuing the two different products?

                                      " Oh, here's a 4.5L Visions "stockpot", costing $16.40 to ship"

                                      With a $50 *starting* bid that is a minimum of $66.40. If that is your idea of cheap, okay, but it is not mine.

                                      1. re: ppllkk

                                        Hi, ppllkk:

                                        Well, Corning *says* not to deep fry in it, but you obviously know a lot more than they or the CPSC do.

                                        Yes, I think $67 is inexpensive for a stockpot, but because it's Visions, I agree it's about $66 too much. If you think $67 for this piece is too dear, that ought to tell you something.

                                        The link I provided is to CPSC complaints, and there are several references to lawsuit and a recall. Research it yourself if you like.

                                        Aloha,
                                        Kaleo

                                        1. re: kaleokahu

                                          "Well, Corning *says* not to deep fry in it, but you obviously know a lot more than they or the CPSC do."

                                          I did not know of a reason to not deep fat fry in Visions, but I do now.

                                          "The link I provided is to CPSC complaints"

                                          The link does not mention Visions. It is talking about Pyrex type bakeware.

                                          1. re: ppllkk

                                            Yeah, well, it did talk about Visions. Since you don't like raw data, what about this? http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/explo... It ends:

                                            "...[T]here have been more than 2,000 reported incidents since 1983 in Canada and the U.S., in which consumers were injured when their Visions glass cookware shattered."

                                            Again, you can do the research on a pan that you yourself admit isn't worth $67. I'm not wasting any more time trying to show you crap is crap.

                                            Aloha,
                                            Kaleo

                                            1. re: kaleokahu

                                              "Yeah, well, it did talk about Visions."

                                              No, the previous link did not mention Visions. This one does.

                                              "Since you don't like raw data, what about this? http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/explo... It ends:

                                              "...[T]here have been more than 2,000 reported incidents since 1983 in Canada and the U.S., in which consumers were injured when their Visions glass cookware shattered."

                                              The complete quote is:
                                              "Smitiuch [the attorney for the plaintiff] said there have been more than 2,000 reported incidents since 1983 in Canada and the U.S., in which consumers were injured when their Visions glass cookware shattered."

                                              Just to be clear, it was not the article saying that, it was the attorney for the person who was suing.

                                              The attorney also said this, and I think we can be sure that it is true since it does not strengthen his case: "It was the first successful North American lawsuit against the makers of the glass cookware, Corning Incorporated and World Kitchen Inc., according to Michael Smitiuch, of Smitiuch Injury Law PC."

                                              The article was dated Aug 15, 2013 9:08 PM ET. That is, the first successful lawsuit in North America over Visions was yesterday. Visions has been around for 30 years.

                                              I never said that the Visions pot was not worth $67. I said that it is expensive compared to what it used to cost and it is no longer the very considerable bargain that it once was. They do chip and they sometimes break if dropped. That was not an issue when they were easy and inexpensive to replace.

                                              "I'm not wasting any more time trying to show you crap is crap. "

                                              Trying to show someone that their experience over a long period of time was really the opposite of what they thought it was is not likely to succeed. I hope you really do realize that.

                                              1. re: ppllkk

                                                Hi ppllkk:

                                                There are many who have great experiences driving Pintos, Corvairs and Ladas, too.

                                                If you Google "exploding Visions cookware", you will find many instances of it happening. Here's a good example: http://www.ellenskitchen.com/forum/me... Is it probable or common? No, but it's common enough. More than 2,000 *reported* injuries since 1983 in N. America tells me, a trial lawyer, that there were far more *un*reported injuries, and a large number of lucky outcomes. By your logic, smoking tobacco was completely safe until the first successful lawsuit, I guess.

                                                Enjoy your Visions and stay safe.

                                                Aloha,
                                                Kaleo

                                                1. re: kaleokahu

                                                  I thought that you were going to stop wasting your time.

                                                  "More than 2,000 *reported* injuries since 1983 in N. America tells me, a trial lawyer, that there were far more *un*reported injuries, and a large number of lucky outcomes."

                                                  Yes, but that figure comes from a lawyer, and you know what they are like.

                                                  "By your logic, smoking tobacco was completely safe until the first successful lawsuit, I guess."

                                                  You are, as usual, putting words in my mouth. I never made any claim about Visions safety -- I've not run across concerns before -- but after 30 years, I'm not worried.

                                                  But thank you for your concern about my safety. I am quite touched.

                                                  1. re: ppllkk

                                                    Hi, ppllkk:

                                                    Well, crappy AND unsafe sounds like it's acceptable to you in your cookware, so go for it.

                                                    I was mostly concerned for others in your kitchen who might be injured. I'm sure you could live with yourself, though.

                                                    Aloha,
                                                    Kaleo

                                                    1. re: kaleokahu

                                                      "Well, crappy AND unsafe sounds like it's acceptable to you in your cookware, so go for it."

                                                      No. It is very good cookware and I've used it for about 30 years. I do not believe that it is unsafe. One of the links that you pointed me to shows Pyrex baking pans in shreds, and that would seem to be more unsafe, but I don't think I will throw mine out.

                                                      "I was mostly concerned for others in your kitchen who might be injured. I'm sure you could live with yourself, though."

                                                      Oh dear, I thought you are concerned about me. I am crushed.

                                                      1. re: ppllkk

                                                        Hi, ppllkk: "No. It is very good cookware..."

                                                        Sure. Setting aside performance, safety, looks and hundreds of better choices, Visions is sterling stuff.

                                                        30 years? Mind boggling.

                                                        Aloha,
                                                        Kaleo

                                                        1. re: kaleokahu

                                                          "30 years? Mind boggling."

                                                          I understand how you can feel that way, but with any luck, in a few years, you will be 30 and maybe 20 some years after that your perspective will change.

                                                          1. re: ppllkk

                                                            Hi, ppllkk:

                                                            LOL, I've been cooking for more than 40 years and in about every construction made.

                                                            It's your persistence with terrible cookware for 30 years that boggles my mind. But hey, it's working for you in some way.

                                                            Aloha,
                                                            Kaleo

                                                            1. re: kaleokahu

                                                              "It's your persistence with terrible cookware for 30 years that boggles my mind. But hey, it's working for you in some way."

                                                              Why do you think that I should pay more attention to your brief experience with Visions than my rather extensive experience with Visions.

                                                              I gather you think you could not possibly be wrong. I am quite sure I am not wrong about my consistent experiences with visions of over long time.

                                                              1. re: ppllkk

                                                                Hi, ppllkk:

                                                                Your and my subjective experience with this cookware is what it is. Such experiences aren't right or wrong. For reasons like microwave oven compatibility (and that it fits your crockpot), you like Visions. For reasons such as its lack of responsiveness, evenness, and diffusivity, I think Visions belongs in the pantheon of worst cookware ever made.

                                                                However, the objective facts of Visions' abysmal conductivity, atrocious thermal diffusivity, and the injuries it has caused are clear and not subject to debate, no matter how long you persist in cooking in it.

                                                                Aloha,
                                                                Kaleo

                                                                1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                  "For reasons such as its lack of responsiveness, evenness, and diffusivity, I think Visions belongs in the pantheon of worst cookware ever made."

                                                                  Okay that was your experience. My experiences been that that Visions holds and diffuses heat much the same way the cast iron does. I cannot account for different experiences, but it is clear that I have had a lot more experience with it then you have. And, for reasons that you will probably not understand, I choose to go with my experience rather than with yours.

                                                                  "the objective facts of Visions' abysmal conductivity, atrocious thermal diffusivity,"

                                                                  There is a lawyer and you. You think that if you call something an "objective fact" over and over again, it somehow becomes an "objective fact," or at least you may convince some simpleminded person that it is an "objective fact." What you wrote is simply not true.

                                                                  1. re: ppllkk

                                                                    Hi, ppllkk:

                                                                    The conductivity, specific heat, and thermal diffusivity of glass and glass-ceramics *are* objective facts dictated by the laws of physics, and so bear repetition. So are the numbers for cast iron, which are quite different, and better.

                                                                    So your statements that: (a) "It conducts heat very much the way that cast iron does"; and (b) "Visions Is very close to cast iron in Its cooking properties" are demonstrably wrong. Your experience just doesn't comport with reality, unless "very" means something unique to you.

                                                                    While we're at it, if you've been cooking in Visions for 30 years, you must have one of the very first sets, since I believe Visions was not introduced until 1983. I recommend you check them very carefully for dings, chips and scratches. Metal utensils and minor bumps can easily cause tiny chips, from which Waller lines can propagate, leading to failure and injury. http://readconsultingblog.blogspot.co... The gentleman in Ontario was cut so severely he lost the use of his right hand, and it took 10 YEARS of litigation to hold Corning 75% accountable.

                                                                    Aloha,
                                                                    Kaleo

                                                                    1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                      "The conductivity, specific heat, and thermal diffusivity of glass and glass-ceramics *are* objective facts dictated by the laws of physics, and so bear repetition."

                                                                      We've been through this before. Different glass and glass-ceramic have different properties. In particular, Visions and the Cornflower Corning Ware have very different cooking properties.

                                                                      If you can show me that there is some absolute limit to the range of properties of glass-ceramics, I would be very interested.

                                                                      If you can find a technical description of those for Visions, I would be very interested.

                                                                      But the idea that *all* glass-ceramic materials have properties such that they cannot be good cooking materials is something that I regard as improbable and I'm certainly not going to take your word for.

                                                                      And my experience says otherwise.

                                                                      Can you supply any evidence for your position? Not just typical properties for glass-ceramics, but something that would be relevant to this discussion which is about a very specific material designed for cooking.

                                                                      1. re: ppllkk

                                                                        Oh, I get it. The glass formulation in Visions is *special* physics-defying glass-ceramic, the properties of which miraculously rival the conductivity and diffusivity of metals. No other material is like it!

                                                                        It's just Code 7740 borosilicate glass not unlike Pyrex. Pyrex's thermal conductivity is 1.14W/m°C http://www.camglassblowing.co.uk/gpro... and http://www.uqgoptics.com/materials_co... CEMENT mortar has a higher conductivity, at 1.73W/m°C. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/the...

                                                                        I'm getting the actual numbers from Corning, but I'm sure you won't believe them. Or--here's the ticket--YOUR Visions is different from all the other Visions.

                                                                        Aloha,
                                                                        Kaleo

                                                                        1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                          The bottom line is this:

                                                                          I would be quite interested in the technical specifications, but even if they were to show that Visions COULD NOT POSSIBLY be a good material for cooking, and even if I were convinced and acknowledged that Visions COULD NOT POSSIBLY make a good Dutch oven, which is mostly what I use it for,

                                                                          I WOULD STILL USE VISIONS BECAUSE IT IS A PLEASURE TO COOK WITH.

                                                                          Please note that I have not made any claims about Visions technical specifications, those are all yours.

                                                                          My only claim has been what it is like to cook with.

                                                                          1. re: ppllkk

                                                                            Hi, ppllkk:

                                                                            OK, it's good to know you'll pleasurably use your Visions regardless of whether the material is well-suited for cookware.

                                                                            I'll post the info from Corning and/or World Kitchen when I get it.

                                                                            Aloha,
                                                                            Kaleo

                                                                            1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                              Visions is as much a pleasure to use as porcelainized cast-iron or copper encapsulated stainless steel, and that is true whatever the properties of the material are.

                                                                              I really do not have a preference.

                              2. re: kaleokahu

                                I can only speak about Corning PyroCeram as I have never had or used Visions. Yes, other pans can sauté and then go into the oven, but since I have the PyroCeram - which is not that same as Visions at all -it is a matter of habit that I pull it our for frittata, crustless quiche and flan. I love it for those!

                                1. re: laraffinee

                                  That is what I thought was the case. Thank you for confirming it.

                                  My experience has been that it is easier to sweat vegetables and simmer stews in Visions than in the old Cornflower Corning Ware. It is quite an old pot from back before they were called PyroCeram .

                                  1. re: laraffinee

                                    Hi, Lara:

                                    That's great to hear. I love those preps, too.

                                    Unless a part of the pan can't handle a high oven (usually a plastic or composite handle or cover, PTFE or tin lining), pretty much any pan can go from stovetop to finish in any home oven. With these glass pans, the oven will ultimately even out the heat.

                                    Aloha,
                                    Kaleo

                                2. re: laraffinee

                                  I don't think that you are talking about Corning Visions, but Visions can be used at very high temperatures.

                                  I found a version of an old Visions ad demonstrating that. I still find it quite striking.

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gjMks...

                                  I think you might find it interesting.

                                3. I have one piece of Corning Vision (not Visions), the ten inch skillet. I use it for only one dish containing sauerkraut. For that it seems just right, and it cleans up easily in the dishwasher.

                                  3 Replies
                                  1. re: GH1618

                                    "Corning Vision (not Visions)"

                                    As far as I know, the terms are used interchangeably for the cookware made by Corning Ware (or CorningWare) before it was sold to World Kitchen.

                                    It is certainly possible that one of them refers to the product that was reintroduced a few years ago. I have never seen it in a store in the USA, and is clearly not being promoted here. I have no experience with it.

                                    If you have any information, I would be very interested.

                                    1. re: ppllkk

                                      My piece is original, and it is marked "Vision" on the handle, along with "Corning U.S.A.".

                                      1. re: GH1618

                                        I looked at two readily available pieces, and they both say "Vision" and "Corning U.S.A." (Of the other two pieces, one is on a shelf and the other lives in a crockpot.)

                                        I think that they are called "Vision" and "Visions" interchangeably.

                                        If you search on Amazon for either term plus cookware, it seems that you get the same thing. "Visions" seems more common than "Vision", and Corning Ware may well have used both terms at different times

                                  2. About 20 years ago we bought a set of Corning Vision when it first came out. The saucepans and dutch oven were ok, but so are stainless steel and aluminum pans.
                                    .
                                    The glass skillet was the worst thing I have ever cooked in. Uneven heating. I tried to make pancakes, some parts were burned and some were almost raw, on the same side of the pancake. Our 50 year old Griswold cast iron skillet is much superior.
                                    .
                                    We kept the Corning Vision set about 6 months and then gave them away to friends.
                                    .
                                    I still use other Corning glass bakeware, but to us Vision was a flop.

                                    1 Reply
                                    1. re: Antilope

                                      I have never had a Visions skillet, so I cannot comment on that.

                                      I have had a lot of experience sweating the usual aromatic vegetables in a Visions Dutch oven over low heat, sometimes for quite a long time.

                                      Then, either the ingredients for a stew or for tomato sauce gets added, and the whole thing gets simmered over low heat for a couple of hours. I have never tried to conduct a test, but my impression is that Visions is about as good for long simmering as porcelainized cast-iron or expensive stainless steel, and much better than less expensive stainless steel with an aluminum plate on the bottom. About as good in its ability to maintain a simmer and not scorch the bottom.

                                      I do not find that I go looking for one pot rather than the other; it's which one is closest at hand or easiest to get to.

                                      I have an oval casserole that I can bring up to heat on the top of the stove and cut down on the cooking time in the oven. Obviously I could cook something in it as part of the casserole.

                                      I mostly use the small saucepans to heat up something in the microwave with the option to add more heat while stirring on the top of the stove. Very useful.

                                      I would go for an ordinary saucepan, not Visions, to boil water or something that is essentially boiling water.

                                      I would say that Vision, like cast iron, seems to work best if it is preheated on a moderate flame.