Cookie Disaster! Help! MS messed me up "again"..... :(

[iL Divo]

so I made the cookies while viewing MS's cookie TV show about her 10 favorite holiday cookies.
the ones I just made, I literally watched her do the ingredients and did them right along side of her, so I DIDN'T goof.
here is the link which I just read and it's the right recipe.
http://www.marthastewart.com/recipe/m...
so, here's my dilemma.
they didn't rise at all.
they are flatter than I used to be.
she made no mention on TV or in her recipe to chill the dough first, so since she didn't I didn't either. my measurements were using my Cuisinart digital kitchen scale so I know they're right.
I used Crisco. I used a 1 1/2" ice cream scoop, I know because I possess 4 different sizes just for this, not ice cream, I preset my oven and do have an oven thermometer. the cookies covered the entire cookie sheet. so I'm stuck with 2 large ''blankets'' not cookies.

once the first blanket of them cooled, I tasted one, a saving grace if at least they're good.
have just tried another 'edge' of part of one to make sure.
they're not burnt although they sure look burnt < very dark in color.
the taste is wonderful but what to do with blankets as gifts?
I have made her cookies before to the same outcome. that being, [nothing like how hers look on TV]. hers are puffier, mine are FLAT, they show a nice crack, mine just look like I'm on crack and made them.

the flavor is very good, the outcome though, not 'giveable'.
could you help?
TIA

[iL Divo]

Hallelujah................Hallelujah..............Hallelujah...............Hal----------lelu--jah.................Hallelujah.................Hallelujah.................Hallelujah...................Hallelujah

I could recite the whole song but you all know the rest.
So................today was the day to take the dough out of the frig and try [with fingers crossed] to get plump cookies using all of your suggestions and praying it'd work.
IT DID!
These cookies, although they didn't feel really tight and cold out of the frig [so I was sceptical]
got sliced up and baked off, all your recommendations being considered.
Only thing I did differently from the original recipe is the addition of the black pepper and subbing out the tsp of ginger for 1/2 tsp ginger and 1/2 galangal.
These are maybe the best cookies of the holiday season that I've made so far.
Thank you all for putting in the time and energy plus effort to help this poor soul out. I am so thankful...........gad this is a great cookie!

[goodhealthgourmet]

so happy to hear it worked out!!

[EWSflash]

Your enthusiasm is most contagious!

[myaco]

Congratulations, happy holidays, glad to help, and BTW this recipe doubles well. : )))))

(And will take a tablespoon of ginger per recipe if you so desire.)

[Miri1]

Yay!

[iL Divo]

you know I'm kind of convinced it may be me.
yesterday I made all sorts of cookie doughs and put them in the frig for later baking.
wanted that darn butter/fat whatever, to have a chance to harden up.
this was one of the batches of doughs I made.

"Classic Butter Cookie"

1/2 cup butter
1 cup sugar
1 egg
3/4 teaspoon vanilla
1 1/2 cups flour
2 teaspoons baking powder
1/4 teaspoon salt
Cream butter/sugar, then egg and vanilla. Sift dry ingredients, add to creamed. Mix well. Wrap and chill an hour. Roll and cut shapes. 350* 10 minutes.
````````````````````````
ok, so I did it just like this. yes, it's a new recipe to me just runnin through many cookbooks getting ideas. wanted a good butter cookie.
mixed/frigged/rolled/baked.................
I can't tell you the flatness of these cookies.
Yep, all new soda, very cold butter, rolled them maybe too flat, let's say a little less than a 1/4", used my 2 1/2" round flutted cutter, brushed lightly with cream on top for colored sugar or sprinkles to stay on, baked for 8 minutes, to perfect color and I ended up with butter "chips". My husband laughed at me, saying they're delicious and VERY crisp, but sooooooooo flat................I'm throwing in the towel :(

[PBSF]

There might be other factors but your recipe has way too much sugar. Sugar raises the setting point of the dough. The more sugar a recipe has, the more the dough will flatten out. 1/2 to 2/3 cup of sugar should be plenty for the ratio of 1 1/2 cup of flour/1/2 cup butter in butter cookies. Cut down on the baking powder; 2 tsp is way excessive; go with 1/2 tsp. If you are forming the dough into rolls and then cut into disks, cut them a little thicker, about 1/2 inch.
Instead of finding recipes from here to there, my advice is to get a good basic cookie book that has well tested recipes such as Maider Heather's or Rose Berabaum. Most public library should have them. Read the introductions, equipments, measuring, ingredients sections before baking.

[iL Divo]

thanks for advice PBSF........
sound advice.
I probably possess 14 at least cookie cookbooks.
I was using a variety of recipes two or three from Betty Crocker cira 1974 plus many others. I do jump from site to site, just because it's my favorite thing to do.

[myaco]

Look don't feel too bad - one of the reasons people make the same cookies over and over again at Christmas is recipe reliability. (ie snowballs, thumbprint cookies, etc) I usually try one or two new recipes at Christmas time, they are admired and fade into obscurity. So much so that I now halve the recipe.

PS you've been married long enough to say "Flat cookie? They're supposed to be that way--"

[iL Divo]

winking at you myaco..........
he was not saying it in a negative way at all, he was giggling at me..................

[sarahendipity]

Are you sure you're using 1/2 cup of butter and not 1/2 pound of butter? A pound of butter is 2 cups. The only reason cookies spread too much, like dead flat and completely spread out, which sounds like your description is too much fat or not enough flour.

[Miri1]

Have you tried toe Toll House recipe on the back of the bag od Nestle Chocolate chips? That was the very first cookie I everf baked, when I was 8 years old, and they are super easy, fool proff, the measurements are great, and you can add in all sorts of good things. You may just be icing fussy recipes. The Toll House ones are easy because you don't have to roll them out...

Don't give up. Baking can be so rewarding once you get the hang of it. It's a larning experience. I've messed up plenty of things...

[iL Divo]

Miri1, oh I won't give up. I've been following grandmas lead baking of baking for 30 years. Made my first cookies very early too. Made my own bread from scratch as a teenager. Only thing is I cook from the heart it's a no brainer I don't even think, food just gets made. With baking though, you gotta measure exact, use correct utensils, worry about "off" oven temps,certain ingedients vs others. Working so hard, so much effort, the expense of ingredients, the packaging/wrapping. It's daunting.
I am a natural cook baking however for me isn't natural, although I love doing it.
If only I could be my gramms or my mother in law. Pure perfection as bakers.
Yes to Tollhouse, a zillion times.

[iL Divo]

no, I got the measurements in the butter category exact.
they're in cubes so it's easy, one cube is 1/2 cup or 1/4 pound.
I'm going to up my flour content next time.

[chowser]

Cookies that cook flat usually mean too high of a ratio of sugar/fat/liquid to flour. Since you're weighing your ingredients, what conversion are you using for cups of flour to ounces? That could make a big difference. It just takes a tablespoon more or less to change your results dramatically. Also, how hot is your house when you're mixing? Are you using very cold butter to cream w/ the sugar? If so, how well is it creaming? Creaming sugar and butter together gives it air. Looking at both recipes, they do look high in sugar compared to flour but I've never made either to know how they'd work.

These are my favorite molasses cookies and they have 1/4 cup more flour than yours, for similar proportion sugar/fat/egg. They're pretty flat cookies, too, even with the extra flour.

http://www.chow.com/recipes/10071-sup...

[iL Divo]

Ok, dough made, wrapped and now in frig.
We'll see tomorrow when I bake them.
Question for all you bakers out there.
The recipe calls for 1 ts Ginger.
So why could I not use (don't laugh) 1/3 ginger 1/3 turmeric and 1/3 galangal powders? They all come from the Ginger family right? And I did use the tsp ground pepper too.

[goodhealthgourmet]

not laughing, that's a total Chowhoud instinct :)

*however* i personally wouldn't make that particular substitution. they may be botanically related, but the flavors are totally different - to me, turmeric is earthy & mustardy, and galangal is citrusy and piney/cedar-like...neither one tastes like ginger. but that's just me - ginger is one of my favorite flavors so i wouldn't want to cut back on it or mask it with something else :)

can't wait to hear how the cookies turn out!

[iL Divo]

well you'll hear later on after church, cause they're going in the oven.
I only did the galangal powder and ginger 1/2 and 1/2.
I think the turmeric or is it tumeric? < always there was only 1 r.
anyway, that would turn it a crazy color.
wouldn't hurt to try it but not necessarily for a Christmas platter of cookies, may scare some off.

[goodhealthgourmet]

ha! yes, there are 2 r's in turmeric :)

[iL Divo]

yeah! say GHG.................check your email..........oh wait, you're gluten intolerant huh? :( ner'mind :(

[goodhealthgourmet]

aww, thanks for thinking of me anyway :) stupid Celiac disease. grrr.

[myaco]

Yikes - just reread your posts - DON'T USE MARGARINE. Use Crisco, margarine cookies will spread all over the place. (Come and get me Food Police ! )

[iL Divo]

myaco, you are a doll...................and if you're a guy, that's still a compliment...................:)))
ok, I have crisco, I'll try again, like right now.
I can't wait........................luv ya lots myaco, you're de bom.............
with all these helpful aides coming to my rescue I feel like a kitty stuck in the tree and you folks in here are all my firemen........................ yeah..................................... :)))

[myaco]

You are more than welcome !!!!! Good luck - really hope you have good results - Haven't baked yet, have that scheduled for tomorrow, but this exchange made me check molasses and ginger levels. Can't wait. (Today I'm roasting nuts in the shell and that takes all day.)

(Try baking one test cookie to see if the results are firmer, add flour tablespoon by tablespoon if not. But this recipe usually doesn't need adjusting -- )

[iL Divo]

you know you're brill.
I will do just that.
because I don't want to ruin batches of cookies [and the expense, let's talk about the expense of making all these cookies] I don't want to go up in smoke either. but if I do just one cookie and see how it reacts, that'll definitely help me out. thanks for suggestion. love it...............

[myaco]

It's not you, it's MS --- This cookie is one on my holiday standbys, bet I've made it every year for almost twenty years. They are otherwise known as Molasses Crinkles, here's a comparative link. http://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/m.... BUT there are three key differences: More flour - 2 1/4 cup. More leavening - 2 tsp baking soda. And finally, I refrigerate the dough overnight so it's easier to handle.

No wonder they were flatter - the dough was wetter, warmer and underleavened. Not your fault!

My baking sheets are a mix of well greased, single sheet Ecko aluminum and Airbakes. Cookie stays rounder on Airbakes, but cracks are better due to hotter baking on the single sheets. Will scorch easily due to sugar/molasses content, watch last few minutes.

Please don't give up on this recipe, it's in my top five. Enjoy your private stash of first run cookies, upside is don't have to share.

Thanks for the chance to share a little bit of expertise I didn't know I had, and remember my late mother's reaction the first time I made these. Have a great holiday.

[iL Divo]

y'all are so smart and I am truly appreciative. sheesh, my back hurts, my arm hurts, my wrist hurts, the dr is trying to kill me with my treatments and killing those cookies was sad as I was so hopeful they'd be terrific.

when I make them tomorrow, I'm going to chill the dough anyway and subbing out the marg for shortening, plus, I'm going to be very daring and add a heaping teaspoon of freshly ground black pepper to the spice mix. should be good or awful, we'll see............ :)

[Miri1]

I made the cookies this evening and they came out fine. Yeah, a little flat, but nothing like the b;anket you spoke of. I used butter, since I don't have Crisco and Grandma's brand molasses. I'm wondering if you used large or extra large eggs? That might make a big difference (always use large for baking unless the recipe specifies) and be sure your cookie sheets are cool before placing the dough on them. And also, meaure carefully. I've made the mistake of using the wrong size measuring cup in the past with disastrous results. It's easy to misread the markings...

Have fun and give it another go. And put those blankets to good use! I see some yummy ideas up there. That cheesecake idea sounds drool-worthy! :)

[iL Divo]

Thanks for your input miri...
Like you I used Grandmas molassas too.
The egg size, that could be it because (don't call me dumb) < I have large/extra large/jumbo eggs in the frig. I am not sure which one I grabbed, and I do mark them so I know, I just didn't look when I pulled it or them out of the frig, my bad.

[PBSF]

The recipe on your link uses volume measurements. You mentioned using your Cuisinart digital kitchen scale; how did you convert volume to weight? If you use a standard conversion chart from another source, measuring might be a problem. Of the 1 1/2 cup of sugar, 1 cup goes into the dough and the remaining 1/2 cup is saved for rolling the formed dough balls.
I've made similar cookies using Maida Heather's recipe and it turn out fine; two differences is her uses butter rather than shortening and light brown sugar instead of granulated sugar. Neither should have caused the excessive spreading. The recipe also instruct to refrigerate the dough until it is firm enough to handle for forming into balls. I also use silplat.
The mystery is that your cookies spread SO MUCH that they formed a sheet and just just flattened out.

[iL Divo]

I factored that out, I did use the correct because I knew from watching her first but then reading on her web site, that you had to divide your sugar.
my machine also has grams and ounces and lbs so that part was easy and I felt very confident using it because I thought I'd be spot on with measurements.
oh yea, they just flattened out is right.
that's all they did.
but again, the flavor is there, I love the over abundance of clove, very holiday-ish.

[wlo]

Break them up into pieces and use them as the cookie layer in a trifle (whipped cream or ice cream and some sort of fruit - maybe cooked apples?). Grind them up and use them as a cookie type crust in a pie (although it hurts a little to go through all that trouble just to end up with crumbs). Are they hard or soft? Cut them with a square cookie cutter and use them in an ice cream sandwich - cinnamon ice cream would be amazing. I've had the same thing happen to me. Very frustrating (and expensive).

[iL Divo]

wlo................brill ideas too, gad I love having people actually being willing to give me credible advice, thank you.

[goodhealthgourmet]

if you were to grind them for a cookie crust, the flavor would be terrific with pumpkin cheesecake.

[gimlis1mum]

Just a guess - could it be a difference in the cookie sheets?

I usually bake on heavy-guage stainless steel ones, which heat up more slowly in the oven. I used to make this caramel-filled christmas cookie, which was basically a chocolate cookie dough wrapped around a Rolo candy. Never had a problem with them at home, but then one time I went to a cookie swap party and tried to bake them on thinner aluminum cookies sheets (the Ecko type ones) and it was a disaster - the caramels heated up too fast and melted through the dough.

Was Martha using those air-insulated cookie sheets, and you have regular ones? So maybe her cookies set up in the oven before the sheet gets hot enough to spread the dough? I'd guess that a Silpat would provide a little insulation, but the parchment would be too thin to help.

So sorry you are having troubles, there is nothing worse then sinking a lot of time into baking and then it doesn't come out right. Break 'em into small pieces and either package them as ice-cream topping, or mix with melted chocolate and dro onto waxed paper. I've seen pricey "biscotti bars" which are essentially the same thing, only made with the crumbled-up ends of biscotti. (Always thought it was a great idea, but the biscotti ends get eaten quickly in our house & never had the chance to try it).

[iL Divo]

Just a guess - could it be a difference in the cookie sheets?
I usually bake on heavy-guage stainless steel ones, which heat up more slowly in the oven. I used to make this caramel-filled christmas cookie, which was basically a chocolate cookie dough wrapped around a Rolo candy. Never had a problem with them at home, but then one time I went to a cookie swap party and tried to bake them on thinner aluminum cookies sheets (the Ecko type ones) and it was a disaster - the caramels heated up too fast and melted through the dough.
```````````````````````````````````````````````
good point, unfortunately no, not the case. I made them on my new Chicago Metallic cookie sheets. I got the idea years ago probably when I asked for help online here about what sort of cookie sheets/baking sheets should I sink my cash into. they are seriously heavy gauge.
```````````````````````````````````````````````
Was Martha using those air-insulated cookie sheets, and you have regular ones? So maybe her cookies set up in the oven before the sheet gets hot enough to spread the dough? I'd guess that a Silpat would provide a little insulation, but the parchment would be too thin to help.

``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
I didn't notice what kind of cookie sheets she used. I just wasn't paying attention as I was literally making them as she did and I had to keep hitting pause on my DVR. I still have it all recorded though so I'll take a peek.
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
So sorry you are having troubles, there is nothing worse then sinking a lot of time into baking and then it doesn't come out right. Break 'em into small pieces and either package them as ice-cream topping, or mix with melted chocolate and dro onto waxed paper. I've seen pricey "biscotti bars" which are essentially the same thing, only made with the crumbled-up ends of biscotti. (Always thought it was a great idea, but the biscotti ends get eaten quickly in our house & never had the chance to try it).
````````````````````````````````````````````````````
who are you? I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! I will do just that. I'll melt chocolate and dip sizeable ends of them [after breaking them] up into it, let it set up and cool. I'm on my way out the rainy door to buy more cellophane packages so I can put them in cute little holiday packages...
seriously gimlis1mum, you are brilliant and this totally helped me salvage my mistake.
I will make them again later this weekend, but, I will use Imperial margarine instead of crisco and when I get the cellophane bags, I'll pop into the store and buy yet another box of soda.

blessings..........

[gimlis1mum]

hehehehehee...you are too kind. I love this forum too, there are so many people with good ideas :-)

I think I got mixed up about which cookies sheets would encourage spreading and which would not, but it sounds like that wasn't the problem anyway.

love the pumpkin cheesecake and trifle suggestions, too.

[iL Divo]

"love the pumpkin cheesecake and trifle suggestions, too."

oh gad me too and have used cookies in the past that I' ve crumbled and used in pie shells or or as crusts and the trifle idea is brill...........also the idea of using them over the baked apples [I call them anyway, they're like apple pie filling without the crust, the family loves it] and sort of just dispursing it over a hot bowl of them, brill...........or I could mix them into a coffee cake streudel topping with the flour, butter, brown sugar and "my mess"................oh the ideas are endless................ [*wink*]

[chef chicklet]

I think that silpat with some cookies is too hot, perhaps the butter content or whatever, I'm no scientist, but I have baked enough cookies to see what happens. I use parchment paper more and more fine results. I tried and tried to make the World Peace cookies, they always spread flat. I'm going to try them again using parchment.

[nuts4food]

Could be your molasses. It is very acidic and some brands more so than others. There seems to be enough baking soda in the recipe to account for this, but I would try an extra 1/2 tsp in the next batch given that your first try fell flat.
Also, I hate baking cookies on Silpat. They always spread more than they should. I only use parchment now and have much better results.

[iL Divo]

I used parchment paper bcuz my silpats fit my old cookie sheets which won't fit in my new double ovens that were several inches wider. Not bought new ones and won't cut up the 3 others.
Soda is no older than 5 or 6 months as I couldn't find my stash of it and bought a box at Vons then found original. I made my son taste one sight unseen as I didn't want the appearance to be off putting before tasting flavor. His comment: great flavor, why so flat? Aaargh

[biondanonima]

How old is your baking soda? I would suspect it's the culprit in the no-rise situation.