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What is the Best Dessert wine?

TheDewster Dec 16, 2010 05:54 AM

What is the Best Dessert wine you ever had? My favourites are OREMUS TOKAJI ESZENCIA 2000, Taylor Fladgate 20 yr old Tawny Port.

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  1. c
    CocoTO RE: TheDewster Dec 16, 2010 07:23 AM

    Tawse Cabernet Icewine ... perfectly balanced acidity to offset the sweet ... the cabernet is so much more interesting that the Riesling and Vidal versions

    7 Replies
    1. re: CocoTO
      drumwine RE: CocoTO Dec 16, 2010 08:27 AM

      1975 d'Yquem gold standard for ethereal dessert bliss

      1. re: drumwine
        TheDewster RE: drumwine Dec 16, 2010 08:43 AM

        I have a bottle of the 80 haven't tried it yet I think I will open it at christmas to compare with the Oremus eszencia.

        1. re: drumwine
          Bill Hunt RE: drumwine Dec 18, 2010 03:39 PM

          I have to agree. The '45, the '64, the '70 and the '90 were all excellent, though obviously not :everyday wines."

          Much also depends on the dessert, at least for me.

          I love my VP's, but seldom take them with food. For Ports w/ food, the two top performers for me are the Taylor-Fladgate 20 year Tawny, and the Porto Barros 20 year Tawny, especially with my wife's pecan pie!

          An odd little "ringer" was the Cloudy Bay LH Riesling (about 1990?), that was only available at the winery. Had it in a "taste-off" with some heavy-hitting TBA's and Eiseweins, and it was the winner there. I tried of years to score some more, but could not in the US, and I pulled every string that I could.


          1. re: Bill Hunt
            craig_g RE: Bill Hunt Dec 21, 2010 01:17 PM

            " have to agree. The '45, the '64, the '70 and the '90 were all excellent, though obviously not :everyday wines."

            Did you mean Yquem? It's my understanding that the '64 was not produced.

            1. re: craig_g
              Bill Hunt RE: craig_g Dec 21, 2010 06:03 PM

              Maybe take a look at the years of production here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2...

              Middle of the page.

              Not sure where that info came from?



              1. re: Bill Hunt
                craig_g RE: Bill Hunt Dec 22, 2010 06:04 AM

                "On average, 65,000 bottles are produced each year. In a poor vintage, the entire crop is deemed unworthy of bearing the Château's name; this happened nine times in the 20th century: 1910, 1915, 1930, 1951, 1952, 1964, 1972, 1974, and 1992."

                The footnote says that this came directly from the Chateau. I've seen it reported elsewhere, including Broadbent's "Vintage Wine."

                1. re: craig_g
                  Bill Hunt RE: craig_g Dec 22, 2010 05:26 PM

                  That which I tasted had the official label and was quite goo.

                  That's the best that I can offer.

                  Have you personally tasted that vintage? What did you think?


      2. ChefJune RE: TheDewster Dec 16, 2010 12:04 PM

        One of the most delicious things I have ever had in my mouth is real German Eiswein. It's been years, but my palate remembers... Other than Yquem, nothing else comes close, although there are many delicious dessert wines.

        2 Replies
        1. re: ChefJune
          craig_g RE: ChefJune Dec 17, 2010 10:05 AM

          For my taste I prefer a great TBA over either Eiswein or Yquem. At the end of a long night I need the acidity, and Yquem can be very heavy, not ideal after gluttony. As much as I admire a great Yquem, if I'm ending a meal with Sauternes I'd usually rather have Climens. (Yes, I know it's actually Barsac.)

          1. re: craig_g
            maria lorraine RE: craig_g Dec 19, 2010 01:15 PM

            Oh...oh...Climens. So fine.

            BTW, I am guilty of lumping Barsac into the Sauternes category for ease of conversation.

        2. b
          bob96 RE: TheDewster Dec 16, 2010 03:23 PM

          A Greco di Bianco from Cantine Stelitano, Bianco (Calabria).

          1. Delucacheesemonger RE: TheDewster Dec 17, 2010 10:31 AM

            Probably not the best, but some of my favorites were :
            P. Foreau, Clos Naudain, Goutte d'Or 1990
            Quinto de Noval Nacional 1934
            Schoffit Clos St Theobold Rangen de Thann Pinot Gris SGN 1989
            and what l try to drink quite often is Macvin from the Jura

            1 Reply
            1. re: Delucacheesemonger
              Bill Hunt RE: Delucacheesemonger Dec 18, 2010 03:44 PM

              Well, I am glad that the QdN Naçional '34 was great. I cannot imagine having that with any food, and no cigars (usually do one with Tawneys, but not with my VP's) within a mile, but that is just me. I am jealous. I passed on a bottle some years ago, and almost wish I had not. I will probably never know if I have missed one of the great pleasures in life. Maybe if I am reincarnated?


            2. z
              zin1953 RE: TheDewster Dec 18, 2010 09:38 AM

              Yes, "best" is certainly not the same as "favorite," nor even the same as "most memorable I ever had" . . .

              Best: an imposible question to answer; it's subjective.

              Favorite: to me, that implies that I can go back to it again and again (as in "Cherry Garcia" is my favorite ice cream, or "Espresso Vivace" is my favorite Seattle café.

              Most memorable (by 5's):

              1) Vintage Porto: 1948 Taylor's, 1945 Taylor's, 1935 Taylor's; 1945 Graham's; 1935 Sandeman.

              2) German/Alsace: 1937 Schloss Schonbörn Erbacher Marcobruner TBA, 1971 Egon Müller Scharzhofberger Auslese, 1970 Schloss Vollards Auslese Eiswein; 2004 Zind-Humbrecht Riesling Clos Windsbuhl Vendange Tardive; 2004 Zind-Humbrecht Tokay Pinot Gris Clos Jebsal Vendange Tardive.

              3) Sauternes/Barsac: 1928 Château Climens; 1967 Château Suduiraut; 1971 Château d'Yquem, 1967 Château d'Yquem, 1947 Château d'Yquem.

              Madeira, Sherry, and other wines . . . we'll skip for now.

              Favorites: Henriques & Henriques 15-year old Bual or Malmsey (or 10-year old, if the 15 is unavailable); A.A. Ferreira "Duque de Bragança" 20-year old Tawny Porto; Neipoort 10-year old Tawny Porto; Lustau (Old) East India Sherry.


              12 Replies
              1. re: zin1953
                Strauss RE: zin1953 Dec 18, 2010 02:55 PM

                The Vendage Tardives from Trimbach in the Alsace are also AMAZING.

                1. re: zin1953
                  Bill Hunt RE: zin1953 Dec 18, 2010 03:50 PM


                  You triggered my memory (something that I need more, and more often nowadays). I have to add an 1863 Smith-Cossart Verdelho Madeira and the 1971 Egon Müller Scharzhofberger Auslese. hosted by Heir Müller himself.

                  Thanks for the jog,


                  PS - what did you think of the '48 Taylor-Fladgate? Had it for wife's50th, and it was very good, but we both thought that the '63 and the '70 might have been better. Lot can change in an older bottle of VP, especially one that was bottled by the distributor in the UK, from the barrel, many years before. Just curious. Very good, but not the best.

                  1. re: Bill Hunt
                    craig_g RE: Bill Hunt Dec 21, 2010 01:21 PM

                    Do you know who the UK bottler was? At a big Taylor vertical (back to 1900) a few years ago, the '48 was the star of the show, even alongside great '00, '08, '12, '27, '35 and others. The greatest VP of my life so far. That particular bottle barely eclipsed Nacional '63.

                    Taylor '66 isn't quite as well known as '63 or '70 but on the one occasion I had it, it was outstanding.

                    1. re: craig_g
                      Bill Hunt RE: craig_g Dec 21, 2010 06:04 PM

                      I might have that info, but not handy. This was served up, just as we moved form Denver to Phoenix, and my wife flew back to Denver, just for this event. I think that I may still have the bottle, but am not sure if there is any info on it. If I can find it, I will be glad to share.


                  2. re: zin1953
                    BigWoodenSpoon RE: zin1953 Dec 18, 2010 10:39 PM

                    You are a lucky, luck y man!
                    My current favorite: Kracher Gruner Vetliner /Chardonnay Eiswein I had at the Taste of Austria event in May. Rosenhof also make a Gruner Eiswein that's tasty as well
                    Loves me some good sweet stuff.

                    1. re: BigWoodenSpoon
                      maria lorraine RE: BigWoodenSpoon Dec 19, 2010 01:18 PM

                      I'll never forget a Kracher tasting in Austria -- must have had 35 of his wines. He was still alive then. Unforgettable -- and a healthy dose of fusel!

                      Another great tasting was of about 40 Picolit while in Friuli. That's another great one.

                      1. re: maria lorraine
                        TheDewster RE: maria lorraine Jan 5, 2011 11:31 AM

                        Had a Kracher TBA over christmas 2000 I think it was. It was very good but a Reisling Auslese was even better Schloss Johannisberg 2006 Furst Von Metternich.

                    2. re: zin1953
                      bubba_frisco_dave RE: zin1953 Mar 1, 2011 08:35 PM

                      The first "expensive" wine I ever bought was in 1970 when I split a case of Chateau d'Yquem with a buddy at $17 per bottle. Not a bad investment! But we now have one bottle left (drank the others to celebrate weddings of 3 kids and 2 retirements). We can't bear to drink a wine that expensive. The Comte de Lur Saluce said when I dined with him and James Beard at the Stanford Court in 1992 that the 1967 was "too good to drink". I have no idea what that means, but it is very good. If you want to buy it for a special occasion, let me know, dave1 at wcf dot com.

                      1. re: bubba_frisco_dave
                        sedimental RE: bubba_frisco_dave Apr 18, 2011 11:26 AM

                        Drink it Dave!

                        You can buy that 1970 d'Yquem outright for about 250 bucks or bid for it at internet auction for around 170 bucks or so. You would pay more for dinner and wine at a fancy restaurant! Life is short- drink the wine :)

                        1. re: sedimental
                          zin1953 RE: sedimental Apr 18, 2011 07:11 PM

                          In the FWIW Dept., the 1970 is not the greatest vintage. It was overly hyped at release, but the 1970 Château d'Yquem actually has very little Botrytis. 1967, 1971, 1976: yes! The 1970, however, is sweet without Botrytis.

                        2. re: bubba_frisco_dave
                          bubba_frisco_dave RE: bubba_frisco_dave Apr 18, 2011 09:12 PM

                          Sorry I wasn't clearer. I bought the wine in 1970, the vintage was 1967. It is worth somewhere between $1-2K.

                          1. re: bubba_frisco_dave
                            sedimental RE: bubba_frisco_dave Apr 18, 2011 09:57 PM

                            Oh, okay. Yes, the 1967 is stellar and pricey. You need a very nice occasion!

                      2. s
                        Strauss RE: TheDewster Dec 18, 2010 02:53 PM

                        Tokaj, the good ones (honey)

                        Sauternes are obviously very well known (Yqem etc), but you can get excellent dessert wines from Monbazillac at fractions of the price. Had some with Foie Gras in Paris a few months back, awesome.

                        Also, try some Black Noble, from De Bortoli. Australian red dessert wine HEAVEN. Really good stuff.

                        Never tried an Eiswein..... must do so at first opportunity.

                        1 Reply
                        1. re: Strauss
                          Bill Hunt RE: Strauss Dec 18, 2010 03:55 PM

                          For a pairing with seared foie gras, my ultimate was actually not a wine, but a LH cider from Quebec. We were at The Green House, Mayfair, UK, and doing the chef's tasting menu, with the sommelier's pairings. Out came an apple-infused seared foie gras, and a copita of a LH apple cider from Quebec (cannot find the producer now). Even with some very heavy-hitting Sauternes and foie gras, that was the ultimate for me. I still use it as the paradigm for all foie gras pairings.


                        2. Delucacheesemonger RE: TheDewster Dec 19, 2010 04:50 PM

                          Tonight at the small bistro in Philadelphia called Bibou drank a Huet Cuvee Constance 1995, not too shabby.

                          1. p
                            PeteDelfino RE: TheDewster Dec 22, 2010 06:14 AM

                            While I have tasted many dessert wines including Canadian Ice Wine, Y'quem, RIesling and many Ports...the least expensive of all, and the most enjoyable, is Moscato. All of the above are wonderful but usually expensive. Moscato is more affordable.

                            3 Replies
                            1. re: PeteDelfino
                              drumwine RE: PeteDelfino Dec 22, 2010 09:34 AM

                              The original question asked "the best"....my opinion, along with 99% of the wine world: Y'quem.
                              But totally agree about Moscato...great value, major deliciousness.

                              1. re: drumwine
                                bob96 RE: drumwine Dec 22, 2010 02:17 PM

                                I assume you're talking about a Moscato Passito in Italy (Pellegrino makes a good value Sicilian version) or a Muscat de Beaumes de Venise or Muscat de St Jean de Minervois, in similar style. from France. They're all great with nuts and dried fruits and Stilton.

                                1. re: bob96
                                  drumwine RE: bob96 Dec 22, 2010 09:22 PM

                                  Was thinking Moscato d'Asti was the reference

                            2. s
                              SauternesSteve RE: TheDewster Jan 16, 2011 08:19 AM

                              A lot about d'Yquem here and it is consistently the best Sauternes but there are others too that perform to the very highest standards. Compte Alexander de Lur Saluces is closing the gap with current vintages of de Fargues; Berencie Lurton is producing incredible Barsac at Climens and Denis Dubourdieu regularly pulls out 100 point wines with his extraordinary L'Extravagant de Doisy-Daene. In great Sauternes years like 2001, 2007, 2009 and probably 2010 others too are close to perfection such as Sudiuiraut, Rieussec, Coutet, La Tour Blanche, Guiraud (now certified as an organic wine), Lafaurie-Peyraguey, Nairac, Sigalas-Rabaud, Clos Haut-Peyraguey, de Rayne-Vigneau, Raymond Lafon, Rabaud Promis, Doisy Daene itself, Doisy-Vedrines and de Myrat.

                              1. TheDewster RE: TheDewster Apr 12, 2011 08:31 AM

                                Thanks for the great posts I learned a lot. When do you folks think d'Yquem from the 80's would be ready to drink?

                                4 Replies
                                1. re: TheDewster
                                  Bill Hunt RE: TheDewster Apr 17, 2011 09:18 PM

                                  Depending on the vintage, from now, until about 2050. The "drink by date" would rely heavily on what one likes in their Sauternes.



                                  1. re: TheDewster
                                    zin1953 RE: TheDewster Apr 18, 2011 04:28 AM

                                    "From the 1980s" is far too vague to give you a specific answer. Depending upon the vintage, Bill may be absolutely correct and the wine will still be improving with added bottle age, or the wine should have been drunk years ago and it's now OTH . . .

                                    What is the specific year?

                                    1. re: zin1953
                                      TheDewster RE: zin1953 Apr 19, 2011 06:05 AM

                                      I have a 80, 82 and 2002 recommendations for each appreciated. How will they compare with OREMUS TOKAJI ESZENCIA 2000 which I love? As a side note I opened a Vega-Sicilia Unico 1999 and loved it but friends say it is too young yet opinions?

                                      1. re: zin1953
                                        TheDewster RE: zin1953 Apr 29, 2011 08:33 AM

                                        Hey zin1953 I have a 80, 82 and 2002 recommendations for each appreciated. How will they compare with OREMUS TOKAJI ESZENCIA 2000 which I love? As a side note I opened a Vega-Sicilia Unico 1999 and loved it but friends say it is too young yet opinions?

                                    2. t
                                      thimes RE: TheDewster Apr 19, 2011 06:28 AM

                                      Wow, you all are way more knowledgeable about dessert wines than I am. So while many of you may laugh at my input . . . . . (and I agree best and favorite are hard categories to parse into)

                                      I love Vin Santo for dessert. Pairs so well with so many desserts and put it with anything that has a nut in it (my favorite desserts) and I'm a happy diner.

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