Red wine -- not burgundy red or rose', but Santa-suit red / lipstick red / fire engine red

[blue room]

Are there any wines that are really red? Just curious.

[Bill Hunt]

I just have to ask - why?

Gotta' be a story in there someplace.

Hunt

[hsk]

I recall some fruit wines (from berries, not grapes) from Oregon that were quite bright red. Hood-something. They weren't very good but it's been years since I tried them. I don't know if they are still made, either.

[morefuuud]

second the suggestion to look at roses, especially bubbly roses ...
another suggestion is to mix a red & white until you get the desired colour ... <gasp>!

[sunshine842]

you're joking...right?

[morefuuud]

Not so crazy ... pink champagne is allowed to be made from a mixture of red & white wine ... I don't believe it to be such a heresy to do so at home. I'd rather a viognier w a touch of shiraz, than a touch of food colouring.

[sunshine842]

pink Champagne (with the capital C) is made with the juice from grapes that have red skins, just like rose wines. The juice is allowed to stay on the skins in the vat for a few days, which is where the rosy tint comes from. Mixing red wine with white wine is expressly forbidden in France, and at any self-respecting vineyard.

I still hope you're joking.

[tmso]

No, pink Champagne is usually made by mixing red and white wine, though the "normal" rosé technique is also allowed.

[RicRios]

" Mixing red wine with white wine is expressly forbidden in France"

Not really:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/624210

[sunshine842]

I was going off of the recent ruling for still roses...but still have a hard time believing that any self-respecting vintner would blend (and will make sure I avoid any that do).

[invinotheresverde]

Cliquot does. Billecart does. Henriot is a PN/Chard blend. Dom is a PN/Chard blend.

There aren't that many roses that are 100% PN.

[sunshine842]

I'm not talking about blending PN and Chard GRAPES, or even PN and Chard JUICE. That's normal and doesn't concern me in the least...that's how you make wine.

I'm talking about mixing red wine with white wine. THAT is the cheap and dirty way out.

[invinotheresverde]

I consider fermented juice wine. Ergo, mixing white wine and red wine is commonplace in the making of rose Champagne.

[sunshine842]

At 48-72 hours after crushing (which is when most of the blending is done) I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone who would call it wine...at that point, it's just smelly juice. (and the vintners call it juice at that stage, too...so who am I to tell them to change their term?)

[invinotheresverde]

We seem to look at it differently.

[tmso]

Try going to Reims sometime. It's fun, educative, nearby, and maybe you'll get a better idea of how things are done there.

[sunshine842]

and to whom might you be aiming your snark?

Been to Reims. A lot. Next question?

[budnball]

What 's the big deal with mixing wines? We do it all the time with liquior and call it cocktails. If someone mixes a red and white and comes up with something tasty, where's the harm. The whole point is to enjoy the stuff. It is this inflexable attutude that scares people away from wine to begin with. The idea sounds kinda cool and I have some Marsannes and low cost Pinot's that I may play with.

[tmso]

No need to get offended. You claim that (good) rosé champagne is not made from blended red and white wines. In fact, it is; since you're not being specific, I will be: Taittinger's rosé is made from a blend of 30% white Chardonnay, and 70% Pinot, of which some portion is made as a white, and some as a red. I assumed you'd never been on the tours of the Champagne houses at Reims because they explain this during the tours there, and it's confirmed on their website here: http://www.taittinger.com/prestige-ro...

Or maybe you have the tastes of a Chirac or a Mitterand, and consider Taittinger to be dreck. In that case, please tell us what you consider a worthwhile rosé, and how it's made. Otherwise, I'll just repeat the suggestion that you go on a tour again, and listen and ask questions.

[sunshine842]

it's coming down to the semantics...the vintners I know (in France, no less, and even in Champagne) don't call it wine when it's the juice that's just beginning to be fizzy at the beginning of the fermentation process...so neither do I. They call it juice, so I'm taking their word for it.

Blending juice is one thing.

Adding red wine (as in out of a bottle or cask where it's been continuing the fermentation process until the fizzing has stopped and it's at a point where it *could* be bottled and sold, even if it wasn't very good) to white wine (see prior) to make something pink is something entirely different.

Mixing juice, good. Mixing wine, bad.

[Brad Ballinger]

Some darker rose wines will get close to the color you desire. Not totally there, but close. And one Champagne that will get you close is Leclerc Briant's Cuvee Rubis.

[jock]

a few drops of red dye no. 2 in your pinot grigio should do the trick

[Bill Hunt]

[Insert very big grin here]

Hunt

[RicRios]

Are there any white wines that are really white? Milk-white?

[penthouse pup]

Not a wine, and not "a milk", but nigori sake is white...

[RicRios]

This discussion vaguely reminds me of a famous yiddish saying:

"As di bubbe volt gehat beytsim volt zi gevain mayn zaidah." (i.e. "If my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather.")

"If wine were fire engine red..."
Nah, fuggedit.

[sunshine842]

If you can get your hands on a very young vin du vache, I've heard it can be a stark milky-white.

[Bill Hunt]

Probably "pale straw" does not come close enough.

Hunt

[Chowrin]

try Red Cat? that hottub wine? maybe?

[sunshine842]

No -- even grape juice isn't the color you describe, so it would be pretty hard to make a wine that color.

You get some that are a rich red, but nothing of the lipstick or fire engine that you're talking about.

[Bill Hunt]

Now, some grapes do have red juice, but none that would be carmine red.

Cru Beaujolais would be my guess at closest to red, though most are more towards colorado - brick red.

Hunt