Please Help CANTONESE SPEAKERS

[AubWah]

I love a hot Hot Kong tea. I was introduced to the real deal at Tsui Wah on Wellington. My question is this--I order this drink at a few places in Manhattan. Double Crispy Bakery, Ming's Caffe and Golden Carriage Bakery. Can anyone tell me how to say this drink in cantonese phonetically please? Thanks so much

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Double Crispy Bakery
230 Grand St, New York, NY 10013

[AubWah]

this thread is awesome. i knew tsui wah wasnt the best in hong kong but i bet its better than any in nyc and the place is in all the tourist books but it seemed like a local landmark and i thought the ambiance was just terrific.

[K K]

OK here's a quick primer

港式奶茶 - Gong Sik Lai Tsa (Hong Kong style milk tea)

this is assuming of course you are ordering from a Hong Kong style cafe run by Cantonese speakers, and you may also want to make that distinction if it is run by non Hong Kong natives.

The traditional name of the drink, is actually

絲襪奶茶 - see mut lai tsa or "silk stocking" / "pantyhose" milk tea. This was the nickname given to the signature HK milk tea cup by customers back in the 50s when the drink was invented by Lan Fong Yuen 蘭芳園 in Central. The cheese cloth like filter is hand woven by the inventor's wife, and after pouring the hot tea between vats 8 to 9 times like a Malaysian/Singaporean style pulled tea (teh tarik) to achieve a similar effect (and to ensure the tea flavor is well mixed, as a good HK milk tea should use a combination of 3 to 5 leaf blends at the very least) the cloth is so dark and stained that it looks like a pantyhose, but is not. At least in California most HK cafes just call this drink Gong Sik Lai Tsai and only in the last 5+ years did a few places use "pantyhose" milk tea in Chinese on the menu, also because now this signature drink is quickly becoming a collective fond memories of numerous HK expats (and thus people are capitalizing on the good ol' days and trying to revive old school classics in the name of pre$ervation).

Tsui Wah is indeed a famous HK cafe, and it is supposedly according to the tourist books a good place to go stargazing for local celeb pop tarts, assuming you can stay up past 3 am... but in reality there are probably better HK milk tea places than TW.

So just out of curiosity, where in Manhattan can one find a great HK milk tea that uses a multiple leaf blend, hopefully with some of the leaves imported from Sri Lanka?

[Lau]

i think 絲襪奶茶 is a super HK specific term

i mean all these terms have pretty similiar meanings....港式 gang shi is just a short hand version of saying hong kong style tea (gang = xiang gang / hong kong and shi = style). End of the day its all nai cha (milk tea) and all the places will know what that means.

as far as multiple leaf blends i'm not sure....historically i had gone to ah wong bakery and MLW for milk tea, but i havent had it at either in quite some time and they've both changed. Normally, i get it from ka wah, which is probably the best cantonese bakery in ctown, way old school type place although as i said i prefer yuan yang cha, so i usually get that instead (very similar though

i cant accurately assess tsui wah b/c ive always eaten there late after drinking, it is a fun place...i like their 公仔面

[villainx]

Mind giving the address to these bakeries? Ka Wah must be pretty old school, as that area has become a Fujianese stronghold. (Not disparagement, I love Fujianese chow, just interested in the shifting demographics of Chinatown). I pass by that place (if it's that place on Eldridge per Google) close to everyday, but never made it a must visit.

Regarding the tea, what you'll likely fine in a majority of Chinatown places is lipton tea bags. Which is one reason my friend likes to hunt down places that use loose leaf or at least something more discerning. And there are also plenty of places like that too. I'm not that into tea, so I don't pay too much attention to my friend's fanaticism. And am more than generally ok as long as the tea to milk/cream to sugar balance is okay.

So recommendation wise, I don't have any.

[Lau]

ka wah is the one you're thinking of on eldridge in the middle of all the fujian places....best dan tat, excellent sponge cake as well. If you go on the early side when the stuff is fresher its very good (i usually go ard 10-11 on the weekends)

you'll see its all old school cantonese pastries nothing fancy, but they are all generally well done

[AubWah]

Lau I have a question for you or anyone else willing to help me. Yesterday when I ordered my yuan yang cha the nice lady asked if I wanted sugar, I said OK, and it was one of the best drinks I've ever had. Today when I ordered I asked for no sugar to try the difference and a different lady asked if I want milk? I said OK. The drink was not very good. How do you take your drink, what is the usual way? Sugar and no milk? Thank you

[Lau]

well i think it depends whether they use evaporated milk or condensed milk since evaporated milk doesn't have sugar therefore you need to add sugar to make it sweet, but to answer your question i get it with milk and sugar although most of the time no one asks me they just put it in.

I don't think i've ever heard of drinking yuan yang cha that was not sweet (obviously some places will make it sweeter than others)

[AubWah]

Thank you for clarifying. Ka Wah is like a temple. Today the woman understood my order in cantonese without me having to repeat myself. Very exciitng

[Lau]

they're very cantonese there, their mandarin is way heavily accented i cant understand them sometimes

[AubWah]

I would love to know when the bakery opened. I wonder if there is any way to find out.

[Chandavkl]

9 Eldridge St. Hardly enough room to stand inside there.

http://www.nychinatown.org/storefront...

[K K]

Actually no, they use that term 絲襪奶茶 in HK cafes across Taipei, to cash in on the trend (although not for nostalgic reasons) for the same reason that big giant fried chicken chain from Shihlin Night Market opening in Hong Kong. There's even a teh tarik style vendor in Yong Ho's Lir Hua Night Market that offers a HK style milk tea, done Malaysian/Singaporean hand pulled style, but it sucks. Talk about fusion.

Yes ScoopG is correct, "Lai" is the way it is pronounced in Cantonese, "Nai" is more of a Mandarin pronounciation.

And ScoopG...they don't really use "gei dor sui" these days, but slang wise if someone asks a person how much, they could say "leung gow sui" (two pieces of water, = HK$200), and $2000 (or was it $20K, can't remember) would be "leung pei" (two skins). If you're interested perhaps I'll post a translation on the General board of the various out of date jargons used by dai pai dongs in the 50s that I found online via a research paper, it's quite fun.

[AubWah]

that would be very cool

[Lau]

interesting...i miss good teh tarik, used to drink it all the time in singapore

[Phil Ogelos]

Great post, K K; I love all those etymological whimsies.
Please post a link here if you post your researches of HK gastro-slang on the general board; hell, just post them here, with a link there!
[Visiting the General board is a little like traveling above 14th St; possible, but why would you?]

[K K]

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/750448

[Phil Ogelos]

Great, great stuff, K K.
Thanks for sharing your work.
["Hitting the airplane" -that's too rich!]

[huiray]

"[Visiting the General board is a little like traveling above 14th St; possible, but why would you?]"
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Why not? There's a bit more to Manhattan than just the West and East Villages. Oh, BTW, there're also these places called Brooklyn and Queens, for example.

[Phil Ogelos]

golly, I learn something new every day!

[scoopG]

Good point - none of the locals in Hongkong say "Nai Cha" - they all say "Lai Cha" when ordering this milk tea. Hongkong spoken Cantonese is filled with so much slang! Are they still using "Gei de soi?" (How much water?) for "How much money?" Not sure where to get a multiple tea leaf blended drink in Manhattan though!

[huiray]

You mean "Kei tor sooi"...

[scoopG]

In which romainzation system? There are at least four - including Guangdong (1960), Yale (1960's) and Jyutping (1993). Which brings up another complicated Cantonese factor: the use of different characters!

So for "How much water" (or how much $) we have: 幾多水？ géi dō séui

[huiray]

I didn't use any 'official' romanization system. I 'transcribed' it as how it sounds like in the dialect ('P'hoon yuee') I grew up with, from the environs of Canton proper (rather than the regions) as I was told by my parents. Hard 'k' for the start of the tone for 幾, rather than a softer 'g' sound [as I take your romanization of it to be]. I'm not sure how it is pronounced in Toisan dialect, the more common one in the US. Yes, the characters you post correspond to the phrase we both have in mind.

[Lau]

haha tsui wah, i haven't don't think ive ever been there before 3am

when you say hong kong tea, i believe you're just talking about milk tea? (black tea mixed with evaporated milk or condensed milk) which in mandarin is called nai cha (phonetically its nigh chaa), its the same in cantonese, but the pronunciation is a bit different.

ah wong bakery had a good version, but i havent had it in a while, they actually call it hong kong tea there (xiang gang cha --> she ang gaang cha phonetically). I usually get mine from ka wah bakery although im more prone to get yuan yang cha (coffee tea)

[AubWah]

thanks so much lau,

[villainx]

Just to add, or to give an alternative method, most Chinatown bakery will do it Honk Kong style, though the quality obviously or oddly - even for something simple like milk tea - various.

Generally, the standard Chinatown tea will be heavy on the milk/cream and sugar. So adjust accordingly, or from trial. Like Lau posted, HK style tea replies on (or in addition to the typical light cream) evaporated or condensed milk. I'm sure you can say it the way Lau gave, but in my experience it's more of "gaang sek cha," or Kong style tea, or if you want to get literary, maybe tea ala Kong?

I can't attest to which bakery has a good, let alone great, version, as I rarely get it; though I find most any place more than serviceable. For whatever reason, it doesn't compare to the ones in Hong Kong. But I think actually being in Hong Kong is the part I like best about Hong Kong tea, if you know what I mean. (Well, it's probably also better tea and more careful brewing, but ... you know.)

[AubWah]

Thank you so much this is very interesting. I ate at Tsui Wah once for lunch and had a milk tea and garoupa curry.