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Today's First Disaster

Oy Veh. I whomped up a great huge bowl of pumpkin pie filling, and made half into a pie and half into pumpkin crack. Slid it all neatly into the oven, and looked over at the, ahem, full spice-mix bowl and unopened sugar bag. Sent Mr. to the corner store, and he came back with pineapple (?) cake mix because that's what they have. While I was attempting a remix, I looked down and saw that I was working with pumpkin pie FILLING, and had to adjust, immediately. Glad I hadn't incorporated all those eggs yet. I'm starting to think, a 10$ pumpkin pie is just not worth the trouble.
How's your day been, so far?

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  1. So far excellent. Butternut squash and apple soup done and in thermoses. Dressing with French bread onion carrot celery pancetta thyme sage Rosemary thru partial cook. All prep done for Brussels sprouts with pancetta and pomegranate seeds (juice will be a pom martini for the cook...me), mashed Yukon golds, and 4 onion gratin. Tom turkey will be roasted with herb butter and has been salted since last nite. He will come out at 4 to get to room temp for roast and dinner at 8. Have a 2005 Beaune to accompany. Love turkey day.

    5 Replies
    1. re: capeanne

      Oh, your dinner sounds fantastic. Will be over directly, bearing un-der-seasoned pumpkin pie.
      Have a great day!! sounds like, so far, so well....

      1. re: mamachef

        Thanks this is the first thanksgiving I have cooked since we were married 16 years ago. My husband is a great home chef and loves to cook...so I let him but he had surgery a couple of weeks ago so this one is mine....wish me luck that it tastes as good as it sounds..got a lot of good advice off this board so thanks to all of you....

        1. re: capeanne

          heh I misread your martini name and my eyes separated the 'm' into an 'r' and 'n'

          thought "boy T-day sure gets kinda racy at that house."

      2. re: capeanne

        Could I get your recipe for the butternut squash and apple soup... it sounds so good.

        1. re: snix

          got if off web; 1.5qt good chicken stock, 2lbs butternut cut in 2" cubes, 1 lg onion chopped, 2 tart apples cut into 2" cubes. get stock boiling and add veggies. Simmer for 25 min, til veg tender , carefully puree in food processor, return to stove and add 3/4 cup heavy cream..simmer another 8 min and salt and pepper to taste Serve with chopped chives on top and a dollop of sour cream if desired...major screw up in that Husband trying to be helpful and coated floor of roasting pan with Kosher salt..I didn't notice and plunked bird on rack and roasted ...NO GRAVY FOR ME ...he lives...barely

      3. My pumpkin pie took *forever* to cook! Usually takes about 45 minutes, today 1.5 hours. Still don't know why, but it looks good!

        Btw- if that pineapple cake mix is Duncan Hines- don't make it. Husband bought it once b/c it looked "good." Tasted truly awful.

        5 Replies
        1. re: cheesecake17

          Oh, nooooo......guess what brand it is?

          1. re: cheesecake17

            It even kinda smells nasty. Full of fake pineapple chemicals. This is not even remotely salvageable. (Hey, I got a great idea! Let's take a looooooong walk and find an open ice cream parlor!)

            1. re: mamachef

              What did you end up doing? I hope you didn't bake the pineapple cake!!

              1. re: cheesecake17

                No, it went all into the trash. But, I remade the whole megillah, and that included another pineapple-pumpkin cake mix. Oh well. The pie is ok.
                I can't believe they actually make this sh**. damn essssspensive pie.

            2. re: cheesecake17

              DH forgot add the egg to the dough for clover leaf rolls, but realized it when he tried to roll the little balls. Had to start over with a second batch. This batch took forever to raise because of the very cold weather in San Francisco Bay Area. Ended up taking the rolls in the cupcake tins to our host's house to bake off.

              Thought he might stress out, but fortunately they tasted good when finally done & everyone was very complimentary.

            3. I went the other way, years ago - we were living on a boat, and you take all the paper labels off of cans to eliminate a number of issues...

              The can of what I *thought* was pumpkin pie filling baked and baked and baked....and went over the side, no more solid than when I'd put it in the oven hours before.

              No pie that year. Dammit.

              6 Replies
              1. re: sunshine842

                did you perhaps start labeling the cans with a permanent marker after that?

                  1. re: sunshine842

                    but you beg the question from this non-sailor (but maybe this will change, I think I'd like that) why do you remove the labels? I can't think of any space/weight issues, the only thing I can imagine is trash disposal.

                    1. re: hill food

                      the possibility of labels falling off and getting into the bilge, clogging the pumps and making a general mess. (Because all lockers are designed to drain into the bilge)

                      But more importantly because cockroaches LOVE warm temperatures, high humidity, darkness, and tiny little places to hide...all of which are found in abundance in the storage lockers of a boat. AND the glue just happens to be a cockroach delicacy.

                      Because of roaches' affinity for small dark spaces, you generally, when long-term cruising, empty all corrugated boxes on the dock, and remove all labels from tinned goods on the dock, hopefully leaving any stowaways and their eggs somewhere OTHER than on your boat.

                      1. re: sunshine842

                        You just made me want to go remove every label from my canned goods in my pantry. cockroach eggs? Eeeeeeew.
                        Thank God it's cold as hell here up north.

                        1. re: sunshine842

                          ahh, that makes perfect sense. there was a study once that calculated how many cockroaches (yes plural) could survive for how many MONTHS off the glue on the back of a postage stamp.

                1. Only two so far. Was draining the giblets and didn't pour slowly enough and got splashed with hot turkey broth. Lucky I didn't get hit in the eyes. Shortly after that I was distracted by my helper (used to cooking alone) and was sloppy in how I grabbed a pot handle even though I was using a pot holder. Burned part of my hand but took the time to run cold water over the burn immediately and for several minutes. After that I rubbed a bit of my grandmother's aloe plant on the burned area and the pain subsided in about a minute. My grandmother is no longer with us but it was like getting a hug from her. Thank you Nana!

                  6 Replies
                  1. re: givemecarbs

                    i rub ice on burns. then the aloe is always good.

                    1. re: alkapal

                      Not a good idea. Ice, that is. See this from the Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/firs...

                      I grabbed at something I shouldn't have been grabbing at and, remembering the Mayo Clinic info that I had looked up the last time that happened, I held my fingers under cool running water until the pain subsided. It took nearly 12 minutes. I then wrapped my fingers in gauze as they suggest and kept on cooking. By the time I was ready for bed, there was no blistering, no redness, not the least sign of a burn.

                      1. re: JoanN

                        i don't leave the ice on it like a compress, i rub it back and forth., so it is like very cold running water. i'll heed the mayo advice, though. thanks for the link, joan. sometimes i use the cold running water trick, but sometimes one doesn't *have* cold running water.

                        when a great niece jammed her little hand in the sliding glass door, i dunked her hand in and out of a ice bath. that helps with pain and to prevent swelling.

                      2. re: alkapal

                        I don't know if ice is the medically accepted tx. for such things, but it's always worked for me. Absolutely, the WORST thing you can do is butter a burn....remember, your burn is still hot under the surface, and by applying grease you're basically deep-frying it even worse. ; (

                        1. re: mamachef

                          The problem with ice is that it can cause frostbite. And since the burn is already hurting, you can't rely on the normal signal - pain - to tell you that the burnt skin is being further damaged.

                          For a bad burn (one that's still painful after cooling for 15 minutes), silver sulfadiazine cream works wonders. Its primary purpose is to prevent infection, but it also makes the pain a lot more bearable. It's available only for human use by prescription only, but you can buy it over-the-counter for use on pets and livestock...

                          1. re: mamachef

                            line cooks apply a cut citrus-- usually lemon, it's handy-- immediately to a bad burn (before it blisters, obviously). i've seen stuff i thought would be an er visit get much better much faster. dh just had a doozy of a 450 degree convection oven door burn (6 or 7 inches long) and got lemon on it right away when it happened. it's barely gonna scar.

                      3. Oh my. It was a loooong night. This was grandma's last T-day. She's starting to get further dementia, and she just can't do it anymore. She added both flour and some sort of gravy thickener to some stock. Things thickened all right, right into a big lump at the bottom of a puddle of broth :( It's not easy to tell Grandma that she made her gravy wrong, especially after she's been making it for 65 plus years. We also started to discover that her kitchen isn't being properly cleaned, and Aunt and I had to clean everything from top to bottom. :( It's been a rough day for the family, and though I managed to make some gravy with what was left in the pan, I don't think Thanksgiving will ever be the same.

                        7 Replies
                        1. re: milkyway4679

                          sorry, that sounds trying.... hope you were able to enjoy.

                          1. re: mariacarmen

                            Milky and maria, G-d bless your families. This circle of life.....people come and go; are born and then pass away. Sadness; yes. But sweet, sweet memories left after.

                          2. re: milkyway4679

                            milky and maria (from a comment on another thread): that's a hard place to be. my sympathies.

                            Damn! I was in charge of the gravy this year and I FORGOT the GIBLETS! arrgh. they were all minced and prepped and right there.

                            1. re: milkyway4679

                              Sounds like what happened when my brother and I realized mom couldn't do Christmas any more. Cooking wasn't right and the kitchen wasn't clean. We do the Christmas dinner together now; the dishes are the same but the spirit isn't. It's sad.

                              1. re: silkenpaw

                                Hugs for all of you.

                                The passing of the kitchen torch is always bittersweet.

                                I hope you can at least treasure the time you still have with them.

                                1. re: silkenpaw

                                  My brother and I decided to split up the enitre thankgiving meal with my mom this year, after we saw how beat up she was last year. Her kitchen was fine (she has a housekeeper) but she just wasn't up to all that work anymore, even with us helping. (and we ALWAYS cleaned everything up before we left.) It worked out really well, my mom wasn't exhausted this year and everybody enjoyed the holiday.

                              2. my mum poured away all the lovely juices the turkey cooked in which was going in my freezer for stock. Fortunately I had made the gravy earlier with some of it I had ladled about an hour before.

                                1. Mamachef - so funny! ack, you poor thing! i am sure you saved it deliciously.

                                  32 Replies
                                  1. re: mariacarmen

                                    mc, no I ditten! I made a whole new spankin' fresh pie. And a new pumpkin crack with the vile, vile pineapple cake mix. You could smell the chemmies in there.......but pie was ok. Oh, and did I mention? The corner store doesn't usually sell cake mix, so Mikey was pushing them out the door at two-for-one, and Mr. brought home two. WTF do I do with this? suggestions for a funky pineapple cake mix? Is it salvageable with canned pineapple? Or fresh? Or just pretend it's not wasteful to toss it out?

                                    1. re: mamachef

                                      Make a pineapple upside-down cake, maybe?

                                      1. re: mamachef

                                        Throw it away. If it is as gross and full of chemicals as people say, then it is technically not a food, so it's not wasteful to throw it away. If you decide to keep it and start adding real ingredients to it in a vain attempt to make it palatable, well, that would be wasteful.

                                        1. re: mamachef

                                          Food Banks always welcome packaged goods.

                                          1. re: Melanie Wong

                                            I know, but honestly, I always offer things I would serve my own family. If it's not good enough for us, it's not good enough for our local food pantry. I know there are different philosophies on this, but the clients who come to ours often seek healthy, natural things, especially when they have children. And it makes me crazy when people offer expired, weird, gross packaged things they can't use themselves, and expect others to want them. But most of the people who use our food pantry are working people who just need some help making ends meet. I imagine that if they were truly starving, they wouldn't care as much about what they got, but I don't really know for sure.

                                            1. re: Isolda

                                              Isolda: I for one, am in full agreement.

                                              1. re: hill food

                                                Agree as well. It should be fresh and full of nutrition. If you wouldn't feed it to your family, please don't feed it to those who are in most desperate need of nutrition.

                                                1. re: gaffk

                                                  fresh isn't always an option, but if I'm looking at canned, well the tuna is gonna get picked over the deviled ham. or the canned tomato sauce and a box of pasta over the uber salty prepared can of Chef B. ravioli (although I am guilty of eating that on occasion)

                                                  but yeah what the hell pumpkin pie filling and canned German potato salad are doing in those drive boxes I can't explain unless somebody's just cleaning out the pantry.

                                                  1. re: hill food

                                                    Sorry, by "fresh" I meant not past expiration date--it's not feasible to give fresh food to a pantry.

                                                    Luckily I don't have pepared pasta in my pantry. But boxes of whole wheat pasta, canned tomatoes, black and red beans, rice. I don't "empty out" my pantry for food drives. But I do empty out my pantry for food drives.

                                                    And canned tuna is what I feed my cats, not people. So I also try to send monetary gifts to to charities to round out what they need really fresh. My employer then matches 100%. When I was younger, I overlooked that match, but I now see how important and powerful it it is. I give $100, they give $100--something for my bottom line and nothing to theirs, yet the charity gets $200.

                                                    1. re: gaffk

                                                      yeah I didn't really think you meant "fresh" and really just not bulged out weird things.

                                                      well I love canned tuna, but to each their own. and I get what you're saying. I feel bad when I see things in the collection box that I wouldn't touch or require other ingredients or kitchenware the recipient might not have. (the local news here had a piece on one of several needy families who were receiving a dinner from a local restaurant catered in their home and discovered the family lacked even a table and chairs. they sent over a set. that's class.)

                                                      what a cool and compassionate employer you have! I've had ones that had "give something back" programs, but never that generous.

                                                      1. re: hill food

                                                        Yeah, I bitch & moan as much as the next guy. But the dollar for dollar program is nice.

                                                        Each year we also get 40 hrs of community service free (i.e., we get paid, the charity gets us free). This year we have Dec 14 to bake cookies for hospices in the area. Unlike a Habitat for Humanity event, each participant stays home and bakes for 8 hours. They tried it for the first time last year (I was unaware) and collected more than 1000 dozen homemade cookies for hospice and shut ins. It was such a big hit, this year the company is also giving a cash donation for fresh ingredients (we use our own ingredients for baking . . .the company match is for turkeys, sweet potatoes, etc.).

                                                        It really is the most wonderful time of the year.

                                                      2. re: gaffk

                                                        Oh, yeah, guuurrrl. I never thought otherwise...
                                                        Oh yeah...tuna cakes! And they taste goood....the bottom line, of the bottom line/

                                                        1. re: mamachef

                                                          Are you mocking me or praising me? I can never tell :(

                                                            1. re: gaffk

                                                              Nuttin but praise, gaffk. I don't ever mock anyone, as my dear pal alka knows. I do have a cynical sense of humor but am never mean-spirited; I just try to be funny. I applaud you AND your employer. You will never see a post from me that tries to bring someone down.

                                                              1. re: mamachef

                                                                I thought not. I too am cynical, but try not to bring others down.

                                                          1. re: gaffk

                                                            That's wonderful, cash is always best. Food banks have the ability to stretch those dollars to 1:4 or even 1:8 ratio, that is, each dollar donated can turn into the equivalent of what you or I would pay $8 for at the grocery store.

                                                            Food banks in California have strong support from growers and shippers who donate many tons of fresh produce. Cash donations provide the working capital to transport and process those donations from the farms to where they're needed.

                                                            And while you might not feel canned tuna is fit for humans, canned tuna and peanut butter typically top the lists of protein-rich foods needed by food pantries. They're ready to serve for those that don't have access to cooking facilities, as are canned pastas and soups. So I hope that no one hesitates to drop those into the food drive barrel.

                                                        2. re: gaffk

                                                          100% agreed. I don't use the local food bank as a way of clearing my cupboards, and I wouldn't take something that wasn't equal to something I'd give my own family. A heads up on this? Canned proteins are always an excellent choice; a 12- pack of canned tuna helps more than you could ever know.

                                                          1. re: mamachef

                                                            True, it's just really something I don't have on hand when I receive those bags on my door. I do try to fill the bags with various black, red and white beans for protein. Also plenty of canned tomatoes (which I always have on hand for sauces and chilies). And, of course, the checks to the local food bank.

                                                            Sweet story. Two years ago I asked my youngest nephew--14 at the time--what he wanted for Christmas. He said he had a good home, plenty of food and clothes, and really didn't need anything. He asked instead that I give the money I would spend on him to someone who needed it. I sent a check to the local food bank in his name. He got the thank you card in the mail. Then a few days, another thank you card when the company match was recorded. He was so happy! (Last year he sent a goat to a third world country--he named it Lenny :)

                                                              1. re: gaffk

                                                                Oh my goodness. That boy done been raised up proper!
                                                                Lenny the Goat. I can't think of that and not laugh out loud.

                                                                1. re: mamachef

                                                                  Yes, strange young man. Also a growing CH--ate something appoximating a guinea pig in Guatamala and god-knows-what in Vietnam (but said it was all good).

                                                        3. re: Isolda

                                                          “I know, but honestly, I always offer things I would serve my own family. If it's not good enough for us, it's not good enough for our local food pantry. I know there are different philosophies on this, but the clients who come to ours often seek healthy, natural things, especially when they have children.”

                                                          I’m glad to hear that. However, when given the choice of throwing food away or offering it to someone who might want it, I’ll give it away and not add to the mountain of wasted food. I went through this philosophical exercise myself when I pulled all the canned tomatoes off my own shelf because the cans had BPA (e.g., Muir Glen). I queried a food ethicist whether I should give away food that I didn’t want to eat myself. The answer that came back was that I should have no qualms about donating and that it was better to allow the potential recipient on the other end to have the opportunity to make his/her own decision. I also checked with the local food bank, and they definitely wanted unexpired packaged food (with original factory sealed packaging and no rust or dents).

                                                          “And it makes me crazy when people offer expired, weird, gross packaged things they can't use themselves, and expect others to want them. But most of the people who use our food pantry are working people who just need some help making ends meet. I imagine that if they were truly starving, they wouldn't care as much about what they got, but I don't really know for sure.”

                                                          No question that expired goods should not be donated, as this only burdens the food charity to find a way to discard it. Yet one person’s weird and gross might be the culturally appropriate item in short supply to another. Or not.

                                                          Food choices are such a personal thing. I have seen clients who are living in their cars or out on the street be quite picky and take a great deal of time selecting among various food items offered to them, whereas some might assume they’d just scoop up everything. This is why many food banks are moving toward a self-selection approach, allowing the recipients to choose rather than offering them a pre-packed bag of goods that might be less than needed or too much of the wrong thing.

                                                          Pumpkin pie filling or Duncan Hines pineapple cake mix, sure, they’re not nutrient dense. But for someone who has access to a kitchen, they might represent an occasional little treat that’s otherwise unaffordable and hard to come by. Again, I’d err on the side of leaving those choices to the client.

                                                          1. re: Melanie Wong

                                                            I didn't mean to discourage donations of treats only to remind that some don't have the facilities to prepare it (pie filling needs a crust) and I like the method of self-select. and who knows, I suppose maybe somebody has been craving a can of German potato salad.

                                                          2. re: Isolda

                                                            To echo Melanie's comment above...

                                                            Peoples' tastes are different. While a chowhound might spurn a boxed cake mix, it could be a treat for somebody else. And while I'd be intrigued by a can of huitlacoche, odds are it wouldn't be the first item chosen by folks (of any income level) with tastes that are more, um, normal.

                                                            Having spent a fair amount of time many years ago in food salvage operations, my inclination is always to make the food available rather than to assume that nobody will want it. But then again, I like SPAM...

                                                            1. re: alanbarnes

                                                              "my inclination is always to make the food available rather than to assume that nobody will want it."

                                                              yeah I suppose it is better to give somebody the option of "thanks but pass" rather than "thanks I'll take it 'cause otherwise I'll have nothing"

                                                              1. re: hill food

                                                                and trying to put myself in someone else's shoes, it might be nice once in a while to get your hands on something that ISN'T beans-rice-tuna-pasta...a can of ravioli or some "weird" thing might be a welcome break from the stuff you have to eat every day because it's a high-protein, low-cost choice.

                                                                1. re: sunshine842

                                                                  oh yeah I've lived in areas with high homeless and sometimes I hand out cigarettes when asked nicely or a handful of change that I'm pretty sure is going towards beer.- if I'm feeling generous then it's not really my place to decide what small comfort is appropriate and might make life easier. but I don't claim that on my taxes either.

                                                                  1. re: hill food

                                                                    I figure, hillfood, that once the money is out of my hands, what someone else does with it ain't my business....
                                                                    Which freaks my sweet mommy out no end. But, I figure? If someone's hungry, or "thirsty?" Who am I to tell them what to do?

                                                                    1. re: mamachef

                                                                      exactly. if I ever have to contemplate which dumpster to huddle behind, well... nuff said.

                                                                      1. re: hill food

                                                                        Agreed--let them buy whatever adds a brief moment of bliss to their day.

                                                                      2. re: mamachef

                                                                        +++++1, mamachef, hill food and gaffk!

                                                      3. Multitasking is not my strong suit. Our guests brought pumpkin pie and I was in charge of apple. Mixed together the ingredients for the crust and popped them into the fridge for the flour to hydrate.

                                                        90 minutes later, I finally got other things under control enough to roll out the crust, and opened the fridge - no dough ball. It wasn't on the counter, either. Or in any of the drawers or cabinets.

                                                        Finally I found it - in the freezer, frozen absolutely solid. The only way it could possibly have been made into crust in time for dessert was with a steam roller, and my kitchen supplies don't include construction equipment.

                                                        Ah well, at least there was plenty of pumpkin pie...

                                                        2 Replies
                                                        1. re: alanbarnes

                                                          aaaaaaaahahahahah! the best-laid plans!

                                                          1. Not too many disasters this Thanksgiving. DH burned himself frying the turkey...however that is getting to be a tradition at our house and thankfully it was just a minor burn. Both groups of guests coming over had drama and managed to arrive an hour late...so the ricotta cheese dip appetizer I had planned got bumped from the menu, that way dinner would not wait any longer. I made an apple cake and was doubting myself when the batter looked to thick, so I added some applesauce... I think I should have left it alone. It was a little too wet in the cake. But all in all a great day, enjoyed with family, friends, and our dog.

                                                            1 Reply
                                                            1. re: snix

                                                              Ricotta dip? What do you put in it? I like the sound of it....new and different, for sure (at least to me.)
                                                              So glad you had a great food-family-furry friend holiday, snix.

                                                            2. apparently i can no longer wrap my head around electric stovetops. grandma just gave me one little task while she was greeting droves of people at her front door. keep an eye on this gravy and whisk it around. it was reaching a boil so i shut the burner off. amazingly, the heat did not go away instantly, and 30 secs later the gravy proceeded to make a volcanic mess all over the stovetop. i felt like a huge a-hole. sometimes it's the simple-ist things. :)

                                                              2 Replies
                                                              1. re: soupkitten

                                                                well, you're not a huge a-hole. It was on account of the electric heat, which IMHO is the Fourth Horseman of The Apocalypse.

                                                                1. re: mamachef

                                                                  I HATE an electric range, I'd rather be out in the yard over an open fire.

                                                              2. I'm not sure to whom I owe a cosmic debt, but this year was mishap-free.

                                                                Everything ran to schedule, nothing broke, boiled over, bled, or burned. Even the turkey that was still a little rare could be put back into the oven as the backup bird, while the one that was done to perfection went in the first round.

                                                                Shhhhh...Don't want to mess it up for next year.

                                                                1. I posted my almost-mishap in a now-locked thread on Home Cooking:


                                                                  13 Replies
                                                                    1. re: mamachef

                                                                      It's on that thread - it's readable, just not postable. :-)

                                                                      1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                        Who knows? Some people might like applesauce turkey gravy ;)

                                                                        (Just not you or me.)

                                                                        But props on having so much stock on hand.

                                                                        1. re: gaffk

                                                                          I made more stock over Saturday night in my crockpot, so I've just renewed the supply. ;-)

                                                                          1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                            I think that may be the reason we stubbornly stick to turkey . . .stock and soup. My mom and BIL have a tradition fighting over\passing over the carcass every Easter, T'Giving and Christmas. Of course the "winner" delivers 1/2 of the soup and stock to the "loser."

                                                                            1. re: gaffk

                                                                              Ahhh, but I don't like turkey stock - I made chicken stock. :-) I had chicken carcasses in the basement freezer (along with several single bone-in breast carcasses) so that's what was made. I usually have a carton of chicken stock or broth as well, but I must have used that up and forgotten to write it on my shopping list. It's on there now. :-)

                                                                              1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                oooh, bones in the basement--you're a prime suspect ;-)

                                                                                I always have cans of broth (beef, veggie, chicken), but it's just not the same as the fresh stuff.

                                                                                1. re: gaffk

                                                                                  Yes, I feel rather like one of the Brewster sisters in Arsenic and Old Lace with "bones in the basement." ;-)

                                                                                  1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                    you mean Panama, right?

                                                                                    "another case of malaria? why that's three just this month"

                                                                                    1. re: hill food

                                                                                      "Bully, bully! Follow me, General. It's down south, you know!"

                                                                                      Oh - and would you like some elderberry wine?

                                                                                      1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                        y'know I found a few elderberry trees down the hill this summer, gives me ideas for a Thanksgiving treat next year...

                                                                                        1. re: hill food

                                                                                          LOL! Appropriate labels would be "Abby & Martha Brewster's Elderberry Wine". ;-)

                                                                                  2. re: gaffk

                                                                                    brahahahaha! you make me spit pepsi outta my nose!