74883 Mon Oct 31 14:47:21 -0800 2005 42 2 Los Angeles Area 0 411907 I've recently relocated to Orange County from the SF Bay Area and am having serious dining withdrawls. So far I've experienced a sea of mediocrity. Don't get me wrong, I have had a couple of reasonable meals. However, the "top rated" spots down here generally haven't come close to rivaling anything up north. Any pointers from the locals? Mon Oct 31 14:47:21 -0800 2005 0 only girl 1 411920 I hear you. I feel your pain. Mon Oct 31 15:07:26 -0800 2005 411907 0 Jay 1 411926 Where have you eaten so that we have a baseline as to where to start? Oh, BTW, if SF is foodie nirvana then OC is somewhere near purgatory, but if you search real hard you can find some gems. Mon Oct 31 15:17:26 -0800 2005 411907 0 oc climber 2 411939 thanks for your response. I've begun to suspect that my life as it relates to food is in for a drastic change. Without giving my impressions (save one) here are some of the places I've hit: Tabu Grill Hush Studio Aqua Turner New Zealand Sage Bayside Cafe Dizz's As Is Chat Noir French 75 Mirabeau-DISASTER!! and the list goes on....again, I don't mean to imply that all of my experiences have been bad...just uninspiring. Mon Oct 31 15:41:39 -0800 2005 411926 0 only girl 3 411948 I spent some time in the city by the bay while in school, so I understand what you mean. With OC you have to be a bit more creative and really search to find the gems. Alot of the big name - fancy arsed places will surely disappoint from where you are from. So, the key then becomes finding food true to style and region and leave the fusion/stacking/inventive cuisine to other counties/metro regions. This is where "hounding" really comes to pay off. In lil ole OC there is amazing Mexican, some great Vietnamese, good Japanese, fantastic Italian, Indian, Peruvian, Spanish, Greek, French... too bad the Afghani restaurant closed... that place was good. :( OC Weekly has a searchable food database by type, city and keyword that is very helpful and a great guide. Here are a few good starts and I'm sure others have many more informed suggestions: Black Sheep Bistro in Tustin www.blacksheepbistro.com Dosa Palace http://www.dosaplace.com Pina's Bistro (714) 730-5442 640 W 1st St # C Tustin, CA Pepe's taco truck (baja style seafood stuff) Corner of Main Street and Pine Street in Santa Ana The Golden Truffle http://www.goldentruffle.com/ Zov's Bistro http://www.zovs.com/ Favori http://www.favorirestaurant.com/menu/ Thai Nakorn http://elmomonster.blogspot.com/2004/01/thai-nakorn-garden-grove.html Mon Oct 31 16:16:09 -0800 2005 411939 0 oc climber 3 412049 I also transplanted from the north to OC a few years ago--culture shock indeed! It may not inspire, but some of the food here can be very satisfying, but you may need to adjust your expectations a little. You appear to be in the South Laguna area, as I am, so I'll throw out my favorite, Vine in San Clemente. Small plates in the wine bar, nice wine flights, and well-prepared dinners in the lovely small dining room, again focusing on artisanal wines. (Geez, I hope I can still get a table now!) ;>) Re: your impression of the last restaurant on your list, I had the same experience with it!!! I wish you the best of luck here and you may need to do what I do, travel north occasionally--you can't believe how much more you'll appreciate it. In the meantime, please keep us posted of any "food finds" you encounter in OC. Mon Oct 31 21:50:50 -0800 2005 411939 0 Lauren J. 3 412085 I was planning a visit to Mirabeau in the near future. Would you please elaborate? Tue Nov 01 01:42:54 -0800 2005 411939 0 Midlife 3 412115 I've been to most of those and I guess I just disagree as I had pleasant to great meals at a few of them... but I do agree on Mirabeau, it has gone downhill, especially in service. Tue Nov 01 12:15:58 -0800 2005 411939 0 1000Steps 1 411931 I am in OC for the next week on business. Other than a good bowl of Pho there is nothing interesting to eat...and nowhere good to eat it. This sux. Mon Oct 31 15:26:15 -0800 2005 411907 0 applebob 1 411933 Welcome to my world! Here's a few sprinkled thru out: Memphis: Santa Ana & Costa Mesa Habana: Costa Mesa Zov's: Tustin PJ's Abbey: Orange S&W Seafood: Irvine Mon Oct 31 15:33:44 -0800 2005 411907 0 JB 2 412411 I second Memphis (catfish po boy), Habana (ropa vieja) and Zov's (breakfast). I haven't been to PJ's or S&W. I also like Prego in Irvine/NB and Pascal in NB. Wed Nov 02 11:42:25 -0800 2005 411933 0 lil mikey 1 411959 You are right: OC's not like LA or SF when it comes to high-end dining. Restaurants in the same vein as Lucques, AOC, Spago, Bouchon, or the French Laundry are in short supply here...but I think OC makes up for it with a world-class selection of Vietnamese, Mexican, Japanese and Thai. Still, we do have a few fine-dining options like Napa Rose at Downtown Disney and those restaurants you've already sampled. As for me, given a choice, I'll take a dozen great cheap ethnic meals over a few expensive gourmet ones. That said, here are a pair of casual but unique eateries that I happen to like a lot: Park Ave in Stanton Cafe Hiro in Cypress Link: http://elmomonster.blogspot.com Mon Oct 31 16:52:01 -0800 2005 411907 0 elmomonster 2 411987 Well said, elmo. There isn't anywhere near as much fine dining here as LA or SF, but there are still many, interesting and worthwhile meals to be had. We're a pretty casual bunch in The OC, but our palates are also evolving, so while this may not be so encouraging depending on your intended stay, I do think there's going to be a greater demand for, hence greater supply of, fine dining in the near future. In the meantime, I'd agree with elmo that there's some interesting stuff in the way of ethnic eats around the county, so maybe you can use your time here to explore that side of dining a bit more. I don't think you'll find too many suggestions to top the best of LA, but I have heard that Studio at the Montage does a nice job with its tasting menu. If you try it anytime soon, do report back, please. Good luck! Link: http://girleatsworld.typepad.com/delicious_oc Mon Oct 31 18:27:31 -0800 2005 411959 0 bottomlesspit 3 412038 Concur in your sentiments about more casual OC dining, but the OP should try Mastros Ocean club (and soon to open Mastros in Costa Mesa) Mon Oct 31 20:35:09 -0800 2005 411987 0 MEalcentric 2 412046 French Laundry is in short supply in the Bay area as well. There's only one. For the record, Norwalk is in LA County, not Orange COunty. Have you eaten at the Laguna Ritz-Carlton? The Dining room was quite good. For Vietnamese, the possibilities along Bolsa and throughout westminster and garden grove are enormous. Nothing in the Bay Area can come close to the variety. Try Sushi Shibucho in Costa Mesa if you're serious about sushi. I think it can stand up to anything else in Southern California (urasawa isn't really a sushi bar, they have cooked dishes, it's its own thing), and possibly northern cal. Check with Melanie Wong on the SF board. In fact, you might want to post a link on the SF board alerting them to this thread, with a title like "SF people, heads up, if you know OC as well as the bay area, please contribute. Melanie knows the bay area quite well and has consistently praised Shibucho in Costa Mesa. Try some local "silly" or otherwise things, the Orange Inn etc. The Crab cooker on Balboa Peninsula. It's fun. As well, if you want to explore, take a look around Downtown santa ana for Mexican Food. There have been a few places I've seen near the bowers that have great mariscos, and you'll find places serving birria, menudo, all kinds of antojitos (tacos etc) that would put the mission to shame. Unless all you really like are the SF Mission-style burritos. Then you're on your own. Check out the local produce at the farmers markets. You won't be all that disappointed. High-end? I live in LA but I've heard good things about Le Trouquet in the unlikely south coast plaza. But it's supposed to be quite good. Compare moving to Orange County to moving to Hayward or Milpitas. You wouldn't expect the range of restaurants in SF in those places either. Mon Oct 31 21:19:22 -0800 2005 411959 0 Jerome 3 412058 The Dining Room at the Ritz-Carlton, Laguna Niguel is gone...forever, unfortunately. Mon Oct 31 22:10:33 -0800 2005 412046 0 Lauren J. 3 412075 Troquet was fantastic...about 10 years ago. Sadly, not so good anymore. We had a superb meal at Napa Rose in Anaheim. Tue Nov 01 00:31:27 -0800 2005 412046 0 Funwithfood 1 411988 I've lived here my whole life, I feel your pain. We usually have to drive for good food (we live in NOC). There are some decent places, however. What city are you in? Mon Oct 31 18:27:44 -0800 2005 411907 0 Funwithfood 1 411989 A couple of things: Where SF excels is at the Western type of food. I'm thinking places like Quince, Gary Danko, Plouf, etc. If you're missing that kind of stuff, my only advice is to move back. SF won the "best place to eat" (something like that) award recently and the factors were heavily biased towards Western cuisine. OC is not even in the running, not even close. You probably won't be happy in L.A. either, which is more of a wild mix of all kinds of people and places. On the other hand, SF SUCKS for anything Asian, with very few exceptions. This is where OC has half a chance. OC is better at Korean, most Japanese, probably Mexican (not my turf, that's why I say probably) and obviously vietnamese. For Chinese I still say drive to Monterey Park. We only have a couple of good Indian places but they beat the pants off of crap-ass places like Vik's in Berkeley, although I will concede Shalimar is alright. OC isn't even that great at Korean food for example, but SF is MISERABLE. Same goes for Vietnamese across the board. Japanese...there are some good places like Anzu but they are pricier. Down here we have places like Shibucho in Costa Mesa which beats the pants off of 99% of the sushi joints I've had the misfortune of eating at in the Bay Area. And I don't even think Shibucho is anywhere close to the best in SoCal. Mon Oct 31 18:29:44 -0800 2005 411907 0 jschyun 2 412093 Sorry, when I said Western food I really meant that "California" type of cuisine as interpreted by the Alice Waters/Judy Rodgers camp, in other words with a heavy French influence. Obviously there are other people/influences to mention here, but basically you do need to change your targets or just move back. I go to SF frequently and I don't whine about how bad the Korean food is over there. Well, okay I do, but I also took the trouble to find out what SF's strengths are. Tue Nov 01 09:48:29 -0800 2005 411989 0 jschyun 3 412185 I just came back from a weekend in SFO rather depressed after all that great food (see reviews on SFO board), but, you really cheered me up - thanks for pointing out all the good & giving a clear argument for not being so slamming of us. Tue Nov 01 16:13:45 -0800 2005 412093 0 torta basilica 1 411996 Go to Renu Nakorn in Norwalk! Awesome Thai food...same menu as LOTUS OF SIAM...and they had some sort of connection previously....some of the top rated in the nation I think (according to "them") Mexican food too....Alertos, Albertos, etc. Little Saigon is worth exploring in Westminster...last time I had a good meal at Brodads or something like that...good Bahn Mi. And just bask in the warm sun and nice people....a welcome change from SF! :) Mon Oct 31 19:10:53 -0800 2005 411907 0 Xericx 2 411999 I thought the owner sold Renu to someone else and now there's no affiliation? The orig owners are at LoS as you mentioned. I could be wrong. Thai food in OC doesn't do it for me, not sure why. I prefer to go to L.A. I haven't tried Bangkok Taste yet though. It has a promising location in strip mall next to a Big Lots. Strip mall dining is underrated. Mon Oct 31 19:22:20 -0800 2005 411996 0 jschyun 3 412008 From what I've read, the only affiliation is that the current chefs at Renu were trained by the former owner before she left. I think Renu is fantastic...as is LoS. I could eat those thai chicken wings at LoS all day long... I also have to try Bangkok Taste. Too many places, not enough time! Mon Oct 31 19:51:25 -0800 2005 411999 0 Afty 4 412037 Why not go to Thai Nakorn in Garden Grove? Better than Bangkok Taste IMHO and much closer than LA Mon Oct 31 20:32:35 -0800 2005 412008 0 Mealcentric 5 412078 Concur...Thai Nakorn is the Thai restaurant to beat. Link: http://elmomonster.blogspot.com Tue Nov 01 00:57:58 -0800 2005 412037 0 elmomonster 6 412123 I've paid very recent visits (within the past month) to The Big Three: Renu Nakorn, Thai Nakorn and Lotus of Siam. So as to not veer off topic I will say simply that Renu Nakorn was the best of the three for me. LoS was delicious but rediculously expensive ($9 pad thai?!!), and that factors into my appreciation of the meal. Renu Nakorn's northern style beef jerky was drier (less greasy) than the others but the accompanying sauce was really phenomenal. In addition we got a northern yellow curry which was spiced to perfection, eaten with balls of sticky rice. Fantastic. I tried Thai Nakorn's "wok-hey" pad see ew which was quite delicious (and I'm sure I'll be going back for it) yet it's not worth the trek when sanumalung's delicious $5.00 noodles are just a couple of miles from my house. Mr. Taster Tue Nov 01 12:53:18 -0800 2005 412078 0 Mr. Taster 7 412237 Not to veer off even more, but doesn't LoS's lunch buffet cut down on the cost? I forget the price. I don't recall that either Renu or Thai Nakorn have lunch buffets. Then again, quality-wise maybe I shouldn't be talking about lunch buffets. Tue Nov 01 19:12:50 -0800 2005 412123 0 jschyun 6 412431 Is the Garden Grove location that much better than the Mission Viejo location? I went back to the MV location yesterday after having eaten there several times in the past and it was good as usual but, nothing special such as the GG location is hyped to be here. Wed Nov 02 12:41:38 -0800 2005 412078 0 JB 7 412453 I've never tried the Mission Viejo location. I've heard that they've tamed the dishes there to cater to local tastes...and it's just about the same distance for me as the one in Garden Grove. I guess if you're still curious about the Garden Grove location (whether it is better than the MV branch), there's only one way to find out! ;-) Link: http://elmomonster.blogspot.com Wed Nov 02 13:33:30 -0800 2005 412431 0 elmomonster 1 412012 Hello, I propose we approach this from a dish-by-dish standpoint. First, how about you give a list of the dishes that you liked eating back home. This should enable the beginning of an "apples to apples" discussion, and perhaps give you some more meaningful results. Good luck! David P.S. In passing, I feel compelled to pass along what I feel to be a real local treasure, and one of my all-time favorites. I don't know what part of Orange County you are hailing from, but if you find yourself in the vicinity of the John Wayne Airport, be sure and try the Pleasant Peasant. Nothing fancy, just really well prepared food by a accompished, award-winning French chef who cares. Enjoy! P.P.S. Oh, what the heck! Since many of the places you have already tried are decidedly of a high-end bent, I simply *must* pass along this, another local gem, which is most elegant and luxurious -- but also with great food! Rothschilds, in Corona del Mar, is such a place. Looking forward to hearing that list of favorite entrees, appetizers, soups, etc. from back home in the beautiful and most picturesque San Francisco bay area! The Pleasant Peasant 4251 Maringale Way Newport Beach, CA 92660 (949) 955-2755 www.thepleasantpeasant.com Rothschild's Restaurant 2407 East Coast Highway Corona del Mar, CA 92625 (949) 673-3750 www.rothschildscdm.com Mon Oct 31 19:52:22 -0800 2005 411907 0 David Ford 1 412057 Aubergine used to be in Newport Beach, just across the bridge onto the peninsula, and was thought of by many as the best restaurant in the OC, at least in its earlier days. However, since the patronage seemed to be weekends only, the restaurant slowly sank into the sunset and they ultimately started working up in LA and now have closed Aubergine and Tim and Liza Goodell are only interested in the LA food scene(Dakota and a place on Melrose just east of La Brea, whose name escapes me(g). Make some plans ahead of time, get in the car and drive like everyone else does in So. California. I drive to the 626 area code for Chinese food, even though over 30 minutes away while my nephew and wife in Fountain Valley take nearly 45 minutes to go there to join me. You will adjust your sights accordingly. Mon Oct 31 22:10:25 -0800 2005 411907 0 carter 1 412068 Unfortunately Orange County is still a young county. We don't have the history that the Bay Area or Los Angeles does for that matter. I for one am very excited about the future of O.C. We are just now starting to develope. Soon there is be revitalized downtowns in Santa Ana, Anaheim and Mariners Mile in Newport Beach and Pacific City in Huntington Beach. I think you are going to see some exciting dining here in the next decade. Of course this doesn't help you now. I am not sure you will ever see the dining environment of San Francisco or New York where people rarely cook or have large single populations and depend on dining as a form entertainment as much a sustenance This may explain how Ozumo in San Francisco is a hit but the one in Newport Beach faded after six months. Furthermore people in L.A and O.C are way too health conscious. This doesn't apply to most Chowhounds but for many people, they are more concerned about how fat food will make them then how good it taste. Judging from your list of restaurants you have been to, you seem to be looking for a scene as well as a good meal. I don't know if this was your intention or you were guided there. Those tend not to work so much in O.C and in L.A. You are going to have to go off the beaten path, then go to a bar afterwards. In my opinion some of the best tasting restaurants in O.C have rickety tables, if any in them. La Sirena Grill in Laguna Beach comes to mind. In the meantime for the best good food/scene try Mastro's Ocean Club For a great meal try: Pinot Provence & Golden Truffle in Costa Mesa. Bluefin, Sage (on the coast), Basilic in Newport Beach. 230 Forest, Sun Dried Tomatoe Cafe, Picayo in Laguna Beach Zov's in Tustin Soon you will have the opening of Aubergine (le table), Kantina, Javiers (in Crystal Cove), Mastro's Steakhouse & Onotria. I also have good information that the Mastros organization is planning a couple of more high end restaurants in the Newport Beach area. Happy eating! Mon Oct 31 23:42:08 -0800 2005 411907 0 cdmedici 2 412360 cdmedici, prey tell about the upcoming Mastro's newport locations? Can you tell me when Costa Mesa location will open?...same menu as bh? Javier's going to Crystal Cove... I didn't know that. Also, do you have any info about the new Fleming's owned fish house going into the Hard Rock location? I'm infatuated with Mastro's Ocean Club... Wed Nov 02 01:38:04 -0800 2005 412068 0 High Maintenance 3 412461 I can’t say much as it was told to me in confidence from one of the higher ups from Mastro’s. I don’t want to jeopardize my relationship, which is also financial. I will say that they are in talks with David Burke of davidburke & donatella in New York. They would like to do a similar concept in Newport Beach. I cannot give the location because I don’t think the existing tenants know this is happening. The only info I have about the Fleming’s owned fish house is that it is going to be called Blue Coral Seafood & Wine.. It is going to be upscale. I assume it will be what Ocean Club is to Mastro’s Steakhouse, Blue Coral will be to Flemings. Another more laid back fish house called Wildfish Grille is opening in the Bluffs in Newport Beach in the same plaza as Wasa Sushi. As for a Javiers going into Crystal Cove, that came straight from Takashi Abe mouth when I was at Bluefin last week. All of the chefs in that complex are in the know. What I don’t know is whether they are going to close the Laguna location. I am going to Mastro’s Ocean Club tonight. I will be sure to ask the manager what the ETA on Mastro’s Steakhouse will be. Wed Nov 02 13:44:12 -0800 2005 412360 0 cdmedici 4 412700 Thanks. That's great info. ETA on costa mesa opening? Thu Nov 03 11:19:46 -0800 2005 412461 0 High Maintenance 5 412752 Damn! I was so enamored by the Oysters Rockefeller, Beef Steak Tomato & Mozzarella salad, my Filet of Artic Char(as big as my forearm), my wifes Australian Lobster(as big as my brain), the perfectly sauteed sugar snap peas, the delicious gorgonzola mac & cheese and the Butter Cake dessert with a whole pan of whipped cream along side a steller bottle of Pinot Noir that I completely forgot to ask the manager. I am swinging by on Friday, I will be sure to ask Gregory. Thu Nov 03 14:24:08 -0800 2005 412700 0 cdmedici 4 413202 Here is a link to shop the irvine company which mentions existing restaurants, as well as some restaurants on the horizon, Javier's in Crystal Cove among them. Link: http://www.shoptheirvinecompany.com/NeighQuickSearchResults.asp?city=&category=37&center=&id=&storename=&orderBy=&page=fghijklmno Fri Nov 04 22:30:07 -0800 2005 412461 0 carter 5 415734 It mentions only Javiers in Spectrum...don't see it in Crystal Cove. Tue Nov 15 23:52:33 -0800 2005 413202 0 High Maintenance 3 413205 Yes, the Blue Coral & wine bar operated by Flemings Steakhouse has finished its liquor license transfer from the Hard Rock Cafe, and will be taking over their space once the remodel is finished. Fri Nov 04 22:51:50 -0800 2005 412360 0 carter 1 412178 Amen! When I moved from Dallas I tried so many restaurants and failed to find the food quality, service, and ambiance that you would expect from some of the best restaurants in the area. You can typically find one of those features, but it is rare to find any out here with all three. First recommendation, lower your expectations for the perfect dining experience. Second, start checking out some of the dives and smaller places that may not have the ambiance you might like, but are much more pleasing to the pallette. If you like Persian food, Darya by South Coast can't be beat in this area. http://www.daryasouthcoastplaza.com/ For Italian, go to Restaurant Rumari in South Laguna. They have excellent fresh pastas and incredible sauces. Order the world's best dessert there (white chocolate gelato topped with fudge, hot espresso, and crushed ameretto cookies). They are too small for a website, so here's the next best thing: http://www.rumari.net/ I second Zov's for one of the best OC meals... their curried sea bass is one of the best dishes you will find here. http://www.zovs.com/ For a slightly more gamey dinner, go to Black Sheep Bistro in Tustin. They have excellent lamb and duck dishes. http://www.blacksheepbistro.com/ For good Mexican, try Javier's or Taco Rosa (both in Laguna). Also, Taleo Mexican Grill in Irvine will work for some good enchiladas suizas or a great roasted chicken salad (all the veggies are organic). Some of their other food items are hit or miss. http://www.taleomexicangrill.com/ Good luck on your search for pallette pleasing restaurants. If you find some, please let us all know. Tue Nov 01 15:43:37 -0800 2005 411907 0 Texas-transplant 1 412264 Check the board carefully. Here's a link to a good review of an OC place. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/74926#412161 Tue Nov 01 19:56:47 -0800 2005 411907 0 Jerome 1 412354 I still really like 6ix Park Grill at the Irvine Hyatt. I've noticed some bad reviews but we ate there again last week and it was great. Wed Nov 02 01:18:44 -0800 2005 411907 0 mf