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Making chicken broth from bones

b
bshee Oct 26, 2010 05:14 PM

Ok, so when I try making chicken broth from bones, it never comes out right. It always tastes funny. I usually reserve bones from cooked chicken, and then throw them in a pot. I boil them first and throw out the initial boiling water. I was always told that was "blood water" and needed to be tossed. Is this what they mean by parboiling?

Then I put the bones in water and put them in the slow cooker on low for around 24 hrs and then I'm done. However, when I try to eat noodles from it, it just doesn't taste right. Is it because i'm not putting vegetables while I make the broth?

Usually I put the veges in the bowl and pour the boiling broth in it to cook everything, maybe I need to take the broth and boil it with veges to make the soup?

Thanks,
Brian

  1. TorontoEastEndFoodie Sep 1, 2011 11:43 AM

    Broth vs Stock Try this link
    http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/743072

    3 Replies
    1. re: TorontoEastEndFoodie
      LindaWhit Sep 1, 2011 02:45 PM

      You *do* realize you posted *this* thread, don't you, TEEF?

      1. re: LindaWhit
        a
        acgold7 Sep 1, 2011 02:49 PM

        That's hysterical. Deju vu. Or Groundhog Day. Or Deja vu.

      2. re: TorontoEastEndFoodie
        TorontoEastEndFoodie Sep 7, 2011 07:50 AM

        Too little sleep, too many windows, too little time.
        Here's the link I meant to post.
        http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/770911

        PS: Made me laugh, and I felt kinda foolish too.
        I even double checked the link. I guess that's why it seemed correct

      3. sunshine842 Nov 8, 2010 12:10 PM

        My stock boils for 2-3 hours, more if I'm home puttering around and can keep an eye on it.

        Veggies are carrot tops, leek tops, onion peels (which help give a nice golden color to the stock), plus fill in wherever I'm short on something.

        skim the scum -- and turn a steamer basket upside down over all the goodies - it will keep them weighted down below the surface of the stock (thanks to Alton Brown for that one)

        Then when it's done, I strain off the stock and put it back into the now-empty pot (because they have animal fat on them, the used veggies go in the trash - no fat on my compost pile). Bring to a simmer, and add a crushed eggshell or two. Bring to a simmer, and let cool. Strain again -- all the small particles will stick to the egg shells, and you'll be left with a nice clear stock. (again, the egg shells and their gunky cargo go in the trash, no on the compost)

        3 Replies
        1. re: sunshine842
          s
          smilingal Nov 8, 2010 07:25 PM

          interesting! What is on the eggshells - you had already strained the stock? Also, I am sorry I am reading this now - I just made 3lbs of carmelized onions the other day - I could have had a nice stash of the onion peels. I will try to remember for the next time - will be doing this again around thanksgiving for Ina's Onion dip.

          1. re: smilingal
            sunshine842 Nov 8, 2010 09:51 PM

            works like a charm, too --

            There are a couple of schools of thought -- one uses just the eggshells, one uses the crushed eggshell AND the beaten white (never the yolk), and another uses just a couple of egg whites beaten with some cold water.

            But you strain the stock first to get rid of all the veggies, the bay leaves, etc. Pour in the egg whites/shells, and bring it back to a boil. Remove from the heat and let it sit for 5 minutes.

            Strain again (use cheesecloth or a very fine strainer to catch all the bits of egg) and you'll have lovely clear broth.

            The proteins in the egg bind to the particulates floating in the broth, so when you discard the egg whites, you get rid of all the cloudy stuff at the same time.

            1. re: sunshine842
              s
              smilingal Nov 9, 2010 07:31 AM

              ohhh - thanks - and it is interesting - because a good friend of mine remembers that her grandmother put what she thought was an egg in - but she had no idea why!

        2. tim irvine Oct 31, 2010 05:52 AM

          I always use the picked over carcass of a roast chicken. I pile a few carrots and a few stalks of celery and an onion or two around it (all cut into pieces) and roast at 450 until deep brown. It goes in the stockpot with enough water to cover several handfuls of fresh thyme, sometimes parsley, about ten peppercorns, a couple of fresh bay leaves, and salt to taste. I bring it quickly to a boil, skim, and cook about 3 hours max at a "smile" (not boiling, as still as possible). Strain through a Chinois. The meat left on the carcass seems to be enough to make a decent stock (oh, and there are also an already roasted onion, celery stalk, and apple that we always put in the chicken when we roast it). Makes 3-4 quarts. Sounds a lot like Sherri's. I will look for a leek next time.

          3 Replies
          1. re: tim irvine
            s
            Sherri Oct 31, 2010 09:06 AM

            Tim, Instead to tossing in the garbage, I keep parsley stems & leek tops, from trimming, in the freezer in a ZipLock bag. They're always at the ready. Not sure that I would make a special trip just to buy a leek. Nah, I know I wouldn't but since these are already here, I toss 'em in the pot. I'll swap my leeks for your apple - that sounds like a delicious touch. Thanks.

            1. re: Sherri
              tim irvine Oct 31, 2010 10:25 AM

              Sherri, great idea. My compost pile does not need anything that isn't "brown." I have a bunch of parsley that is looking tired (store bought because the winter crop in my garden has not taken off here (Austin) yet due to a warm, dry spell). I was going to make a big bowl of hummus to use it up, but I like the snip and freeze idea. Since I live 3 blocks from the store and go there daily a leek run is still not out of the question. I just made 3 quarts of chicken stock, but a leek tart sounds really good right now!

              T

              1. re: Sherri
                d
                dijon Nov 8, 2010 11:55 AM

                Yes to the ziplock bag in the freezer with your leek tops. Jacques Pepin suggested this and I think it was Lidia or was it Marcella who throws her onion skins including the yellow outer skin in the bag too.

            2. d
              dijon Oct 28, 2010 01:47 PM

              my 2 cents, I think several others have said this. IMHO, crack the bones with your poultry scissors, it won't taste right without some salt, the aromatic veggies help, (carrots celery onions and leeks), I don't see much benefit from simmering over an hour, strain the stock and chill, then remove the fat on top if you like. Freezes well. You will never waste a poultry carcass again.

              1. Chowbird Oct 28, 2010 08:39 AM

                I make stock from leftover rotisserie chicken bones (and scraps) frequently. I usually use the crockpot and let it simmer overnight but will use the pressure cooker instead if I'm in a hurry.

                I make small quantities, though -- no need for a stock pot.

                Here's what I do:
                1. Strip the meat from the rotisserie chicken and set aside the bones *and* scraps (skin, gristle, wing tips, etc).
                2. Roast the bones and scraps in a hot 400 degree (F) oven for at least an hour with aromatic vegetables (mainly celery, onions, maybe carrots). This browns everything and will give the stock a deeper flavor.
                3. Put everything listed in # 2 in the crockpot, along with whole peeled garlic cloves, whole peppercorns, and perhaps a bay leaf or two. Top off with water to the maximum fill level for the crockpot. As several people here have already mentioned, don't add salt.
                4. Turn crockpot to LOW and go to bed. In the morning, stock is ready to strain and refrigerate! :) No tending, no stirring, and if you use a crockpot liner, very little scrubbing aferwards.
                5. If you can add any of these when you first set up the crockpot with the cooked bones, your stock will be even better: raw chicken parts/scraps/bones, saved drippings from cooked or baked chicken (or ham), other veggies you like, especially veggie parts you have no other use for -- celery leaves, leek tops, cabbage cores, or broccoli stems.
                6. If you want to add fresh herbs, do it when you actually use the stock to cook something. Long cooking in a crockpot destroys delicate flavors.
                7. If you refrigerate the stock until it's good and cold, the fat -- or at least the animal fat -- should rise to the top and harden so you can skim it off.

                Trust me, even your first attempt will be MUCH better than anything from a can or carton!

                If you intend to freeze some of it for later (VERY convenient when you have a dish that needs a burst of flavor), you can reduce the stock to 1/3 by boiling, then cool and freeze. It's reduced enough when it starts looking thick and syrupy. Some cooks recommend freezing this concentrated homemade stock in ice-cube trays, but I use individual-serving plastic containers intended for salad dressing.

                Let us know how it turns out!

                1 Reply
                1. re: Chowbird
                  b
                  bshee Oct 28, 2010 10:17 AM

                  Awesome. Hey chowbird, how do you get rid of the gunk? A large # of the posts said don't put the veges in while there is still gunk to remove? Also since I usually accumulate the bones over time and freeze them, should I not roast the thigh bones (dark meat) in fear of a "gamey" taste as one poster said?

                  Brian

                2. p
                  Piggyinthemiddle Oct 28, 2010 08:17 AM

                  May seem obvious, but the better the chicken, the better the bones. A free-range chicken will have tastier bones. I always make stock from my leftover chicken carcass, using the skin and meat clinging to the bones, as well as the wing tips. Skim during cooking, as suggested.I even freeze the bones if I haven't got time to make the stock immediately.
                  Another tip when adding veggies to make the stock - i.e. an onion, a carrot, a couple of celery sticks, bay leaf and thyme - is not to peel the vegetables. Cut the onion into quarters, leaving on the skin, and the same with the carrot. Cut up some of the celery leaves and add to the mix.
                  Then brown the bones and cut-up veg in a little butter and olive oil, before adding cold water to cover. You only need to cook it for 3-4 hours on top of the stove. Another trick is to do half of the simmering, then leave overnight and complete the remaining cooking the following day.

                  1. Funwithfood Oct 27, 2010 09:48 PM

                    Roast bones FIRST with veggies (minus dark meat portions, which turn the broth gamey AFTER freezing IME). Then simmer, etc. Fab result.

                    1. w
                      wattacetti Oct 27, 2010 12:02 PM

                      The last time I made stock I used 72 raw carcasses (69 chicken, 3 capon) and 17 chicken feet, no parboiling, no aromatics. Lots of skimming over a period of about 8 hours, and tasting over the last 3.

                      It tasted like chicken. The remouillage also tasted like chicken but there was less of it and it was cloudy (good for risotto, not good for noodles unless using as component for tonkotsu).

                      Others have already said it: there's no one way to make it, but I do think you're overcooking yours and losing something with the parboiling (I would do that when making a clear pork broth).

                      5 Replies
                      1. re: wattacetti
                        s
                        smilingal Oct 27, 2010 01:32 PM

                        Boy- when I started reading this I started to panic! I was actually looking for the appropriate board to share how happy I am feeling on a pretty blue day that my kitchen is smelling so delicious - I am making Wontons and chinese chicken soup for the first time - and I specifically bought backs and wings - couldn't get any necks too - and covered with 1/2 water and 1/2 chicken broth along with scallions, ginger, a little rice wine and S+P. It is smelling great - but I can't vouch yet for the taste - I was too wierded out thinking of tasting soup with raw chicken. Now it's on to the wontons - but the warning of not using backs really scared me!
                        Whew!

                        1. re: smilingal
                          s
                          Sherri Oct 27, 2010 02:08 PM

                          There's no problem using chicken backs for stock-making if you remove all bits of liver. I use backs all the time. When traces of liver are left, they impart a liverish taste to the stock. Without the liver, no liverish flavor. So use chicken backs, just take care and peer at them closely. Remove liver-looking bits and you'll be fine.

                          1. re: smilingal
                            w
                            wattacetti Oct 27, 2010 07:14 PM

                            A nice bowl of home-made wonton soup is always good. Once my project's over I'll make some more stock so that I can do this too.

                            Two aromatics I've had in Taiwan to boost the soup were a little bit of finely-minced celery and hot chicken fat which was rendered from the fat pads that one finds attached to the inside cavities of the birds.

                            1. re: wattacetti
                              s
                              smilingal Oct 28, 2010 06:50 AM

                              I am wondering if the fat pads were attached to the backs? They looked to be. Soup was good - not great - but good. I added a few drops of sesame oil to each bowl at the table and that perked it up a bit. I don't know if it is because I used 1/2water and 1/2 broth along with the chicken - maybe all broth next time?

                              1. re: smilingal
                                w
                                wattacetti Oct 28, 2010 07:54 AM

                                It's always been all-broth when I've had the soup.

                                The fat pads have always been attached in the cavities in an intact bird; I've never actually seen them on marylands.

                        2. e
                          ediblover Oct 27, 2010 10:48 AM

                          Cooking time for stock shouldn't go over 2-3 hours.

                          The biggest problem here is using used bones. For the first round of stock you have to use uncooked bones; the flavors of cooked bones just isn't very strong as they would be with intact ones. You can use the cooked ones for the second round (more on that later), but you have to go with raw for the first. You can buy bones cheap, or just buy whole chickens, chop off the meat and toss the bones into the fridge until you have enough (a few pounds); just be sure to thaw it prior to cooking.

                          You can either toss out the initial boil or skim it; it's easier to just boil it for 2-3 minutes and toss it rather than sitting over it for a time.

                          As others brought up, you should add some vegetables and herbs. Onions, carrots, celery, parsnips, leeks and garlic are the traditional options, so pick some combination (based on what you'll ultimately use the stock for and what flavors you like).

                          For the best stock, you'll want to make a second batch with the first batch. You can use the cooked bones this time (or brown fresh ones), skim what comes up and add an acid (along with more vegetables and herbs).

                          In steps:
                          1. Use raw bones. Boil for 2-3 minutes, then dump the water.
                          2. Simmer for 45-75 minutes.
                          3. Add veg and herbs and simmer for about 10-30 (basically until veg is soft)
                          4. Use cooked/browned bones. Add enough of the first batch to cover the bones.
                          5. Simmer for 45-75, skimming whatever comes up.
                          6. Add veg, herbs, acid (tomato paste, lemon juice/zest, etc. - Again, use whatever you like) and what's left of the original stock, simmer for 10-30.

                          Cooking times vary on the amount and sizes of the bones and veg. The first time around, you really need to taste it so you can adjust as you go along; tasting it after steps 3 and 5 sets you up nicely (So you can see what the extra round does for flavor, as well as adjust the final addition of veg/herbs).

                          1 Reply
                          1. re: ediblover
                            paulj Oct 28, 2010 09:27 AM

                            If you want a 1st quality stock, then use raw bones, or for that mater the whole bird. But if you have a carcase left over from roasting a chicken, use that, and don't worry whether the result is prefect or not.

                            What I've been doing recently is getting a large (4-6 lb) inexpensive bird, cooking it in the pressure cooker, stripping the meat off, and then putting the skin and bones back in the cooker. I end up with chicken meat suitable for soup, salad, or sandwiches, plus a quart or more of rich stock.

                          2. 280 Ninth Oct 27, 2010 10:19 AM

                            bshee et al., my two cents on broth, for what it's worth: First, there's no one way to make a good broth, but I can tell you (as others have) that using bones alone will not provide the kind of taste you desire. You can make a quick broth by placing bones, chicken parts like wings, drums, and backs, and vegetables, along with aromatics like bay leaf and thyme, into a pot of boiling water for an hour or two, and then straining same. Or, you can do a slow-cook method with same. Or, you can roast the chicken parts and vegetables in the oven first and then place the items in a pot and boil, for either a little or a long while. Depends on the kind of broth you're looking for. Fortunately, making broth need not be a high-stakes venture, so worrying about whether to break bones before boiling is troubling details that need not be troubled. I've had good success using the following recipe, and altering it as need be: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/foo...
                            I roast the chicken parts and vegetables before simmering, and I let the simmering occur overnight. First thing in the a.m., I strain the solids, and voila, a delicious, rich, and very usable broth.

                            1. Davwud Oct 27, 2010 09:13 AM

                              I completely disagree with the assessment that 24hrs on low in a slow cooker is too long. I do it all the time.

                              1) Make sure the bones and any other parts are cooked and even browned.
                              2) Add some vegetation like onion, etc. as has been pointed out.
                              3) Add bay leaf. It makes it really good.
                              4) A little salt is okay but once the stock is the amount you want season and then check for taste. It should be much better.

                              DT

                              25 Replies
                              1. re: Davwud
                                LindaWhit Oct 27, 2010 10:11 AM

                                Exactly - I only make chicken stock in the crockpot now and I go 24 hours on LOW (6 hours turns out barely chicken-flavored water, IMO). I start it late Saturday morning and it's usually ready by noontime on Sunday to be strained, cooled, and the chicken picked off the bones for the cat to enjoy mixed into his food. NOTE: I have an older crockpot so it cooks at a temperature lower than newer ones - by about 25 degrees, I think. I like the older one better than what I've seen the newer ones cook at - the stock is at a bare bubbling level on LOW vs. practically a high simmer or low boil with the new crockpots.

                                I always have a mirepoix that I quickly sauté in a frypan, dump that over chicken carcasses (with a good bit of meat on them), and put in a bouquet garni bag that has cracked peppercorns, a bay leaf or two, depending on size, and some thyme. I don't do salt as I'll probably add that to whatever dish I'm going to use the stock for.

                                1. re: LindaWhit
                                  b
                                  Bryan Pepperseed Oct 29, 2010 06:40 AM

                                  Agree with both Davwud and Linda - 24+ hours works fine as longer as the crockpot doesn't get past the barely simmering stage. As I mentioned here,

                                  http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/725139

                                  I use a Crock-o-Stat because I have one of the newer crockpots. - There are also commercial devices available that do the same thing.

                                  1. re: Bryan Pepperseed
                                    ZenSojourner Oct 29, 2010 11:41 AM

                                    This?

                                    http://www.delcollo.us/icp/crockostat...

                                    Because the one Rival used to make isn't made anymore.

                                    1. re: ZenSojourner
                                      b
                                      Bryan Pepperseed Oct 30, 2010 05:56 AM

                                      Yes, that's what I'm using because I couldn't justify the expense of this:

                                      http://www.auberins.com/index.php?mai...

                                      EDIT: Since time has expired for me to edit/clarify my above post, just wanted to say that I meant to type, "as long as" instead of "as longer as".
                                      In other words, since my "setup" keeps my newer version crockpot from boiling I find I get better flavor than when I do a "traditional" stovetop version.

                                      1. re: Bryan Pepperseed
                                        ZenSojourner Oct 30, 2010 03:28 PM

                                        YOWPS! 140 bucks! I guess it's nice that you can set it to a particular temperature, but unless it's getting feedback from an external sensor you stick in the crockpot I don't see how it would "know" what temp the particular crock pot that's plugged into it is at. Maybe it does, I didn't read the specs. Still, that's a lotta dough, LOL!

                                        1. re: ZenSojourner
                                          b
                                          Bryan Pepperseed Oct 31, 2010 06:48 AM

                                          Yes, there's a sensor that goes into the crock - and replacement sensors alone are only $30....... which is about $25 more than I spent on my version of the crock-o-stat.

                                    2. re: Bryan Pepperseed
                                      LindaWhit Oct 29, 2010 03:52 PM

                                      Here's the deal - I think of stock and broth as two different things.

                                      BROTH = done in a few hours - pale color, not a whole lot of flavor.
                                      STOCK = takes awhile to make; deep, dark color and LOTS of chickeny flavor.

                                      So broth could certainly be done in a crockpot in a few hours - it's just not what I'd prefer using. I tend to stick with stock for the added flavor it gives to recipes.

                                      1. re: LindaWhit
                                        c oliver Oct 30, 2010 03:42 PM

                                        There was a huge subthread a while back about the difference in the two and I learned alot. Unfortunately it got deleted; why I can't remember.

                                        I made stock with chicken feet and backs and it probably cooked for 18 hours and was/is fantastic. Won't do it any other way again. I have lovely bags of one and two cups worth in the freezer.

                                        1. re: c oliver
                                          s
                                          smilingal Oct 30, 2010 09:40 PM

                                          C Oliver - what else did you put in? My stock made with backs and wings was good, but lacked flavor. I doctored it up - as I was serving it with wontons, I put some soy into it and added boxed broth. Mine was gelatinous - was yours?

                                          1. re: smilingal
                                            paulj Oct 30, 2010 10:06 PM

                                            My guess is that if the broth/stock is gelatinous, it has all the flavor that was available in the chicken. If it lacks flavor, my first suspect is lack of salt. Boxed broth, if it isn't labeled as low sodium, usually as more than enough salt. It may also have a flavor enhancer such as MSG.

                                            1. re: paulj
                                              s
                                              smilingal Oct 30, 2010 10:10 PM

                                              you might be correct about the pre-salting not being enough. The broth (yes, even low sodium) and the soy sauce added the flavor. I will keep trying till i come up with a formula that works - but I suppose it might be the same as making tomato sauce/gravy - it might always come out different!

                                              1. re: smilingal
                                                ZenSojourner Oct 31, 2010 03:42 AM

                                                It depends to some extent on the bird itself. "Back in the day", when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, you used to be able to get actual stewing hens. These aged birds had lived long enough to develop plenty of actual chicken flavor. I would toss a couple of these in the pressure cooker, pull them out after the appropriate time (what, 15 or 20 mins? Half an hour? Whatever it was). Meat and broth from this made wonderful soups and pies. We used the fat to make gravy.

                                                Today's meat chickens are ancient if they make it to 8 weeks. If you have access to stringy old stewing hens, they make a huge difference in taste.

                                            2. re: smilingal
                                              c oliver Oct 31, 2010 07:54 AM

                                              I buck the trend of most here and put NOTHING else in! No onions, celery, etc. That way when I cook with it, I can add whatever flavorings (or not) as I choose. After 8 or 10 hours, I let it cool a bit and ripped all those pieces apart (It felt very creepy!) and cooked another 8 hours or so. Gelatinous? Holy cow, yes!!! Completely solid when cooled. (I think of Sam when I use it cause he was such a proponent of chicken feet which I was finally able to find.)

                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                MandalayVA Nov 9, 2010 07:43 AM

                                                I do the same thing--no veggies, only some salt. I use bones from roast chickens, wing tips, necks, backs and feet if I have them (I wash the backs to get rid of the organy stuff). Throw it in the crock pot and let it go for 24 hours. The best.

                                                1. re: MandalayVA
                                                  c oliver Nov 9, 2010 08:21 AM

                                                  I just pulled a cup out of the freezer for an oxtail braise for tonight.

                                                  1. re: c oliver
                                                    k
                                                    kahreaytefwun Jan 2, 2012 05:04 PM

                                                    C oliver, I have maybe a weird question or 2, if theres a lot of that stock that you have froze. How do you freeze it? By tubs of 8oz.'s? I am trying to figure out so she i make mine i can freeze the stock too. I don't want to freeze it all as a whole so how can it be easier to freeze in portions? Any ideas? Would pyrex tubs be the best or is there a better choice a better way? I am going to attempt to making my first stock from free range chicken bones that had been left over. :) Oh when i checked the fridge this night I was too shocked for the soup to be all solid^^and am tickled to hear it's a good thing^^Thank you in advance for yours as well as any other comments on this. Cheers from Ohio:)

                                                    1. re: kahreaytefwun
                                                      John E. Jan 2, 2012 06:00 PM

                                                      I used to freeze stock in plastic tubs such as those from sour cream or cottage cheese. I discovered an easier was to store the frozen stock in the freezer. I put 2 cups into a 1/2 liter water bottle, freeze them upright and the stack them on their sides on a shelf in my freezer. I either put them in the refrigerator to thaw over night or I put them in a sink with hot water until they thaw.

                                                      1. re: John E.
                                                        k
                                                        kahreaytefwun Jan 3, 2012 05:44 PM

                                                        Well thats a good idea, and can def. see how it can save space. i will have to try it. Thanks john E.:)

                                                      2. re: kahreaytefwun
                                                        sunshine842 Jan 2, 2012 11:51 PM

                                                        I have extremely limited freezer space, so I freeze stock in plastic bags -- 2 cups of stock at a time, and lay the bag flat -- they can then be stacked, which saves an enormous amount of space.

                                                        1. re: sunshine842
                                                          k
                                                          kahreaytefwun Jan 3, 2012 05:46 PM

                                                          Do they ever get freezer burned?

                                                          1. re: kahreaytefwun
                                                            sunshine842 Jan 3, 2012 10:14 PM

                                                            the stock? I've never had any liquid get freezer burned -- but I use it within weeks, anyway, usually.

                                                            1. re: sunshine842
                                                              k
                                                              kahreaytefwun Jan 4, 2012 09:13 AM

                                                              awesome thank you

                                                            2. re: kahreaytefwun
                                                              John E. Jan 4, 2012 09:28 AM

                                                              I've had stock frozen in the water bottle for years without any ill effects. There is little air at the top of the bottle. The bottle is sealed and water/air proof. I did have a sort of a freezer burn problem when freezing stock in the plastic tubs I mentioned above. There would be large crystals forming and the lids are not completely air-tight. However, it would take many months for this situation to occur.

                                                2. re: c oliver
                                                  LindaWhit Oct 31, 2010 09:26 AM

                                                  I remember that thread - didn't realize it was deleted! Sorry to hear that as it gave a lot of info.

                                          2. re: Davwud
                                            d
                                            DoragonMama Nov 26, 2011 09:36 AM

                                            I totally agree, making stock takes time, usually we put it on low in the oven for at least 24 hours.

                                            We use raw bones/carcass as well as baked bones from dinners, chicken that is already boiled doesn't have much left in it so it doesn't contribute to the stock.

                                            Remove all traces of organs from the raw parts before putting them all in a pot, cover with water, add 1tbl vinegar to draw out the gelatin and bake or cook on low for 24 hours. If water reduces too low add a bit to cover bones.

                                            Yes cracked bones give more flavor too, the marrow adds depth.

                                          3. John E. Oct 26, 2010 06:11 PM

                                            Sherry is on the right track. You're likely cooking the stock too long and it's getting 'sour'. Chicken stock doesn't need to be cooked that long, beef stock doesn't even need to cooked that long. You should just do it all on the stove. Chicken bones will work just fine as long as there is a little meat on them. Wing tips are pretty essential however as they add good gelatin to the stock. Add the bones to cold water, bring it to a boil and reduce to a simmer. Skim the scum off the top. Do not dump out the water as you have been doing because you are just rinsing out good flavor from the bones that way. After the scum (which is protein) stops forming on the top, add carrots, celery, onion, bay leaves, whole peppercorns, smashed garlic cloves, and whatever herbs you like wrapped in a piece of cheesecloth (or put them in a tea ball like I do). Simmer the bones and vegetables for a couple of hours on the stove, strain, chill, and skim the fat. I usually make stock when I have bones, not actually when I wish to make soup or something from it so after defatting I pour the stock into .5 liter water bottles and freeze.

                                            If you want detailed instructions with an ingredient list: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/foo...

                                            9 Replies
                                            1. re: John E.
                                              b
                                              bshee Oct 26, 2010 08:42 PM

                                              Hey guys,

                                              Great advice! I always thought longer was better (like I thought you made pho by simmering forever, on the scale of 3 days lol. Maybe that was just bad advice?). You guys are right, it is getting sour so I probably just left it in too long. I'll try when I saved enough chicken bones.

                                              1. Would this be even better if you smash the bones? My vietnamese friends say they smash the beef bones (but I guess beef is a totally different animal? No pun intended)

                                              2. What herbs would you recommend if you were making broth for chinese style noodle soup?

                                              Brian

                                              1. re: bshee
                                                John E. Oct 26, 2010 09:40 PM

                                                To make the chicken stock more Asian and/or Chinese, try adding lemon grass, ginger, star anise, and maybe some rice wine. I usually just add the ginger.

                                                1. re: bshee
                                                  ZenSojourner Oct 26, 2010 11:30 PM

                                                  No need to smash chicken (or turkey) bones. They're much much smaller than beef bones.

                                                  I always made stock/broth in a pressure cooker. It never took very long - maybe a half an hour? 15 minutes? Whatever your pressure cooker instructions say. A pressure cooker is really handy if you make a lot of soups/stews/broth. You don't need a $200 wonder. I cooked with cheapy Prestos and Mirros for years.

                                                  1. re: bshee
                                                    a
                                                    Altarbo Oct 27, 2010 02:29 AM

                                                    I always smash the bones.

                                                    If you don't smash the bones you'll get less flavour from the marrow and you won't get the pleasant mouth feel of the gelatin.

                                                    1. re: Altarbo
                                                      ZenSojourner Oct 27, 2010 03:32 AM

                                                      Got lots of gelatin when pressure cooking without smashing bones. In fact the stuff came out fully gelled. Maybe it would be different in a regular stock pot.

                                                      1. re: Altarbo
                                                        greygarious Oct 27, 2010 09:02 AM

                                                        The gelatin in the bones is mostly in the joint ends. Stock made from raw parts has more gelatin than that made from cooked carcasses. I agree that smashing the bones is a good idea, but think the marrow from raw bones contributes more flavor than when you smash cooked bones.

                                                        1. re: greygarious
                                                          b
                                                          bshee Oct 27, 2010 09:36 AM

                                                          But if that's true, then why do so many recipes recommend you brown the bones in the oven first? (maybe that's only for beef bones)

                                                          How do smash the bones, btw? I know many use the gigantic chinese cleaver, but I'm afraid I'd rather not risk losing a finger. Any other "safer" methods? Would putting the bones in a bag and hitting it with a hammer work?

                                                          Brian

                                                          1. re: bshee
                                                            greygarious Oct 27, 2010 11:38 AM

                                                            Browning the bones is different than cooking them when they are buried in meat. Browning raw bones in a very hot oven creates the Maillard reaction, imparting extra flavor and color as the meat, fat, and collagen remaining on the bones browns. This procedure is analogous to searing a roast or steak in a Dutch oven or skillet before finishing in the oven.

                                                            You can try whacking bag-wrapped bones - I don't know how well they will split. Your free hand doesn't need to be near the cleaver when you hack up chicken bones.

                                                            1. re: bshee
                                                              lisavf Nov 8, 2010 12:28 PM

                                                              You don't need to smash the bones, just break them open. I use pruning shears, the kind you would use to cut small branches or flower stems. I bought a nice, sturdy pair for just this task. I take the small bones (wing bones, even the smaller leg bones) and cut them in half. This seems to work well as I do get a gelatinous stock. It is also safe (so far!). I would suggest eye protection when you do it, however, as sometimes the pieces can fly. Aiming down into the pot helps, too. Hope this helps!

                                                    2. c
                                                      CathleenH Oct 26, 2010 05:51 PM

                                                      You can't make a decent stock with bones. I thought I was being so clever and economical buy buying 8 lbs. of chicken backs to make stock. It was a total disaster. It came out gray and watery. Once reduced, it had a slightly liverish undertone. It wasn't even acceptable for cooking. I had to throw it out and start over with a whole chicken.

                                                      1 Reply
                                                      1. re: CathleenH
                                                        Bada Bing Oct 26, 2010 06:05 PM

                                                        With respect to Cathleen, I think chicken backs can actually make very good stock, but you have to clean out any organ residues from inside (voice of experience).

                                                        In reply to the OP, I agree with Sherri that tossing the water from an initial boil is not good. In fact, I think parboiling would only be called for in bones that were not already cooked once, and even then it is an approach more often done with beef than with chicken (to my knowledge).

                                                        Also, you need not cook 24 hours--more like 6 even in a crockpot is plenty--and you might be using too much water. In terms of proportions, I would not try to make more than about 1-1.5 quarts of broth/stock from the carcass of a typical roaster chicken. Adding some aromatics per Sherri's veggie recommendations is also a good idea. I also toss in some whole peppercorns. No salt, though: I leave that to the actual dishes later.

                                                      2. s
                                                        Sherri Oct 26, 2010 05:28 PM

                                                        Brian, there may be several reasons why your broth doesn't taste like you want it to taste.
                                                        #1 - 24 hours in a Crock Pot is a very long time. Have you tasted it after 8-10 hours? At 24 hours it is likely way overcooked especially since you are using already cooked bones.
                                                        #2 - Doing the first boil-and-toss seems a waste to me. Skim the broth instead.
                                                        #3 - Adding vegetables will give flavor depth to your broth - I use 2X onion : 1X carrot : 1X celery. Parsley stems and leek tops are another nice addition. I don't add salt because if I want to reduce this stock, it would be too salty.
                                                        #4 - Try adding some inexpensive pieces of chicken, in addition to the bones. You'll get more flavor than just using bones alone. Legs, wing, necks, gizzards (no liver) etc work well. I save these in a ZipLock bag when I'm cutting up whole chickens.

                                                        Try cooking the bones with some chicken and vegetables. Report back so we'll know if we're on the right track. Good Luck.

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