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Our de buyer Carbon Steel Cookware Experience

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There are many carbon steel cookware partitioners and many de Buyer fans. A few of us have recently purchased the de Buyer’s Force Blue cookware due to the price reduction. Hopefully, users like pabboy, tkoff, iyc_nyc and many others will share our experience here, which will be helpful among us and for future readers.

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  1. As expected, I will be the first to update.

    Here is my first day update on my 9.5” (24 cm) Force Blue frying pan. I have attached two photos. The first one is an out-of-the-box photo of the pan. If you look closely, you can see a small white spot near the center of the pan off at 7 o’clock position. That was a scratch. It did not bother me though because I knew it is a superficial mark in the long run as the cookware will be seasoned, but I do want other buyes not to expect a perfect looking pan. Overall the pan has a very polished look. It is definitely 2 mm thick as advertised. It has a solid weight, but nothing like a typical cast iron skillet. It had some black powder on the pan as pabboy said. I was able to remove it after washing the pan between dish washer detergent and cooking oil. I am disappointed that the pan is smaller than I hoped for. This 9.5” frying pan has a a 6.5" cooking surface. In constract, my 10” cast iron skillet has a 8.25" cooking surface. This is because this frying pan has an angled side, whereas the skillet’s side comes straight up.

    I then seasoned the pan according to my own method (not the De Buyer instruction). I figure carbon steel is carbon steel. 15 minutes later the pan looked ready to use and I fried an egg. The pan acted fairly nonstick and the egg was able to move around without tear apart. The second photo is after the seasoning and after cooking an egg. The pan looked darker and had very little food residue after cooking an egg. The pan is not perfectly balanced because this pan has a relatively small cooking area/base, and the handle is fairly heavy. The pan tilts ever slightly toward the handle. I presume this won’t be a problem for a bigger pan.

    Summary thus far:
    Like:
    1) Nonstick in one seasoning session -- much faster than my cast iron skillet
    2) 2 mm thick -- more than enough for me
    3) Lighter than cast iron skillet -- easier to manage
    4) Heats up faster than a cast iron skillet.
    5) Polish looking cookware

    Dislike:
    1) Wish the cookware surface is larger (I know it is not the manufacturer fault, rather it is mine)
    2) Unbalanced pan (not too bad, but it has a tendency to tilt toward the handle).

     
     
    26 Replies
    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

      Chem, do you think the pan is a good size for a two-egg omelette? I am considering to get 8" or 10" of de buyer mineral but your force blue 9.5" might be a good option, too. How wide is the bottom diameter? I am also cooking two fish (Salmon) fillet in it, too. Do you think it is wide/narrow for that? Thanks for your thoughts!

      1. re: hobbybaker

        Report in a minute. I cannot measure right now because I am cooking more stuffs in it :)

        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

          Thanks, chem!

          1. re: hobbybaker

            Ok. The top of the pan is 9.5" diameter. The cooking surface is about 6.5". For perspective, a US one dollar bill is 6" in length. In contrast, my cast iron skillet has a 10" diameter top and a 8.25" diameter cooking surface. The de Buyer pan has a gentler and shallower side. The disadvantage is clear -- less cooking surface. The advantage is that it is easier to toss and flip foods in this de Buyer pan as well as sliding foods directly from pan to dish.

            In my opinion, a two egg omelette is do-able. I think two salmon fillets will be very difficult unless we are talking about tiny fillets. I would say my 10" cast iron skillet can barely manage two salmon fillets.

            P.S.: Now that I looked at the following pictures, I think it really depends on the size of the fillets. I still lean toward saying no, but you can decide base on the dimensions.

            http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&am...

            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

              Thanks chem, it is very helpful! I might go with 10" mineral but definitely not 8" :) I find 12" is just way too heavy for me.

              1. re: hobbybaker

                I think 10" sounds like a good balance. Please update us on your experience. Thanks.

      2. re: Chemicalkinetics

        Can I use stainless steel spatulas on them?

        1. re: Monica

          I have only had this pan for a day, but I can tell you that based on my xperience from numerous carbon steel woks and many other people's opinions: when the pan is very new and barely seasoned, it may be a good idea to use a wooden or plastic utensils just to be be gentle in the first few days, so that the seasoning have time to build up. After that, you can use whatever tools, stainless steel, carbon steel, iron, plastic, wood... whatever.

        2. re: Chemicalkinetics

          I also got the 9.5 fry pan and crepe pan from world market.
          I cleaned, dried on the stove, then seasoned the pans and immediately made an omelet. Did the veggies in the fry pan and the egg in the crepe pan. Food release was excellent and no particulates on the pan at all.

          I had a sticking issue with a textured vegetable protein based "alternative meat" (my wife is vegan). I used a nylon scrubby and hot water to remove the particulates. It did not seem to affect the seasoning as I made potatoes in the pan after that without sticking. This stuff would even stick in a teflon pan, so I'm really not surprised that it stuck in this application.
          I found that if I patted the fake-chicken down with a paper towel to remove the moisture I would not have sticking issues.

          I also had a bit of a tipping problem on the fry pan when it was empty. A slight bump would cause it to teeter. I put the handle into the bench vice on my workbench in the garage and bent it to a steeper angle just a little bit. This changed the center of gravity on the pan to where it would no longer teeter when accidentally bumped and as a side benefit made the handle a little more comfortable to my preferences. The coating on the handle didn't crack up or flake off, but it seemed like I got lucky and I was really expecting it to not hold up to the bending.

          When searing the handle of the fry pan seems to get pretty hot. I'm debating going with the silicon handles offered by de buyer, but I am rather fond of the minimalism of the bare handles and just using a kitchen towel when handling the pan.

          I'm very pleased with the performance of these two pans.

          1. re: cannibal

            :D

            I enjoy the part where you felt it is your duty to explain why you were cooking vegetable protein based alternative meat -- with the explanation of "my wife did it"

            Thanks for the update and please feel free to continue to update.

            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

              Yes it is all her fault :)
              Her and I are complete opposites when food is concerned.
              also, going to make fritatas tomorrow as another test

              1. re: cannibal

                fritatas this weekend were excellent. The first one had a little bit of residue on the pan, i used a metal spatula to release the bits that were left behind and after that none of the other fritatas stuck to the pan, just slid around like they were on ice...it actually made it a little tough to get the spatula under them to flip :)
                Now that I think about it, i did sweat some onions in the pan before the potato mixture went in and I think I burnt some onions and that's what the first fritata stuck to.

          2. re: Chemicalkinetics

            Sorry if this has been addressed, but a search isn't yielding the info. Where have these pans been reduced? On line or at a b&m shop? Thanks.

            1. re: fauchon

              Fauchon,

              Cost Plus World Market was having a ~50% reduction for the Force Blue line of de Buyer, but they have been sold out.

              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                Awwwww...thanks for the info, tho.

                I wonder if anyone else will get inspired to run a sale? Or maybe Cost Plus might do a repeat?

                Lights candle, crosses fingers....;-)

                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                  They are on sale for 50% off again; alas only the 9.5" Force Blue Steel frying pan is available, but a good deal at $19.99.

                  1. re: ahack

                    Thanks for posting this but I can't find this item at Cost Plus. I've looked in Cookware, Pro Cookware & Sale. A search for de Buyer returns 0 results.

                    Am I missing something? I'd love to have this frying pan...Can you provide a link? TIA

                    1. re: fauchon

                      I don't know about the website. I just go to the B&M store and get it.

              2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                Pans arrived this evening. The 14" is massive and has some serious heft. Still lighter than a cast iron equivalent. They both look and feel great. I have seasoned the 10" according to DeBuyers instructions and will cook some pork chops later this evening.

                If you've read the DeBuyer seasoning instructions, what does it mean to heat some oil in the pan? Get it smoking? Heat slowly over low heat?

                Chemical, how do you season your pan?

                jb

                1. re: JuniorBalloon

                  Hi JB,

                  I can imagine the 14" being very heavy. I read the de Buyer seasoning instructions months ago when it had this part about boiling water with potato skin. Now, I checked its website and that potato part has disappeared. To answer your question, I believe the "Pour one centimeter of oil in the pan and heat it for 5 minutes" means getting it to barely smoking but not excessive. If you look at this video from de Buyer, it shows the oil is bubbling and faintly smoking.

                  Now that de Buyer has removed the potato skin part, my seasoning procedure is more similar to de Buyer. I think if you already have a seasoning method that works for you, then you should just use that one.

                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                    I don't have a method :) Following the DeBuyers Potato method seemed to work just fine. The Chops came out great. No stick and comparable to maybe a bit better than my enamel coated cast iron pan. I look forward to working with both of these pans.

                    jb

                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                      I'm new to de Buyer and "the potato skin method" of seasoning. What do potato skins have to do with seasoning??? I'm visualizing heating some oil in the pan and then adding potato skins until they are toasty and then calling the pan seasoned. Am I close or clueless? (Duh! I feel like an idiot.)

                      1. re: stukin

                        Stukin,

                        The potato skin method is really specific to DeBuyer. The toasting method you refer to is certainly common, but that is the one DeBuyer used. It is actually of potato skin and water and bring to boil:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_hcah...

                        It is not really a seasoning method per se. It is more of a cleaning method before the actual seasoning step. DeBuyer no longer advertises this method. Exactly what the potato skin is cleaning, that I am not sure. I know potato has rust removal property, so may it was used to remove the oxidized layer, but if so, why just the skin and not the whole potato. I don't know. Another theory is that DeBuyer pans actually come with a very thin coating and potato skin water mixture help remove that layer. Again, I am not sure.

                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                          I don't think it's entirely specific to de Buyer because someone comments on that YouTube video that his/her mother recommended the same technique (I'm going to hazard a guess that she wasn't a de Buyer employee). As to no longer advertising it, see my previous post. Regardless, it removed a LOT of crud--so much so that I repeated the process and those peelings looked horrible enough that I couldn't in all conscience throw them into the local composting bin. I found the method effective enough that I'll repeat it if I buy a carbon steel wok.

                        2. re: stukin

                          I believe the reason they recommended boiling potato skins is that they contain "oxalic acid". Oxalic acid is used as a cleaning/stain removal agent. Note the following quotes:

                          From Wikipedia:
                          "Oxalic acid's main applications include cleaning or bleaching, especially for the removal of rust (iron complexing agent), e.g. Bar Keepers Friend is an example of a household cleaner containing oxalic acid."

                          From Livestrong.com:
                          "Oxalic acid in products such as bleach, rust removers and metal cleaners is toxic to humans, but these contain high concentrations of oxalic acid. Oxalic acid in foods in heavily diluted, making it unlikely to cause damage to organs or tissues, reports OxalicAcidInfo.com. If you notice a slight sharp, sour taste from your potato skins, you may be tasting oxalic acid."

                          So, boiling potato skins would help to remove any oils, compounds, stains left over from the manufacturing & shipping processes utilizing a relatively natural cleansing method.

                          So, with that in mind, if they were handly, this same method might be used to remove stubborn cooking debris without using harsh manufactured chemicals...

                          I know this threads pretty old, but I just thought I'd throw that out there for future readers.

                          jb

                          1. re: jbmia

                            That's an interesting theory although according to online sources (I was intrigued enough to check), the levels are pretty low. For whatever reason, the peels did a great job on the pan, although given that the manufacturing process undoubtedly involves the use of "unnatural" products, I can't imagine why a "natural" cleansing agent would be preferable. Come to think of it, doesn't spinach contain rather high levels of oxalic acid? If that's the magic bullet, why not suggest spinach?

                  2. Very glad you started this thread, Chem. Can't contribute yet as I have received but not yet seasoned or used the pans. But will report back and also eager to hear of others' experiences.

                    I do LOVE the feel of them. Easier to handle than CI as others like breadchick have noted and look nice, but plan to keep most of my CI for now.

                    2 Replies
                    1. re: iyc_nyc

                      A thick cast iron cookware still has its advantages over a carbon steel pan in some cases, especially searing a thick steak. However, the carbon steel pan may marginalize the cast iron skillet for normal cooking. My update is above. Thanks.

                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                        Same for me. I use the cast iron a lot less since I got some carbon steel. Only really use it for when its huge heat retention is a plus (eg, loads of mushrooms). Advantages for me are :-

                        1) Lighter than cast iron, Can flip food around! Love doing that!
                        2) Smoother surface = faster seasoning,.. better non-stick!
                        3) Heats up quicker than cast iron

                        I actually find a thick bit of steak easier in carbon steel. Sear first side. Flip to different part of the pan and sear other side. Flip back and chuck it in the oven. I find I get a more even steak like that. With cast iron there is too much pan heat going on during the oven phase. BTW, I have the Carbonne Plus line - so that might make a difference.

                        I'm off to make an omelette in one right now. Ham and cheese I think.

                    2. I have done very limited cooking in the Frying pan and Crepe pan I bought from Cost Plus World Market so far. The crepe pan is nice and shallow so, it is easy to get under anything I need to for a "spatula" flip. The Frying pan is very deep so a spatula doesn't work too well. I find I use a spoon a lot more and the curved deep sides promote flipping in the pan with a toss.

                      I'm still getting used to using the rental place's electric stove with these pans. Cast Iron is giving more even and consistent heat with the these new pans being more responsive to stove settings.

                      At first, I wondered if I warped the crepe pan but, as noted above both pans have heavy handles that put a lot of weight on one side of the pan. For the crepe pan, the electric coil I was using wasn't totally flat and I had the handle on the "low" side of the coil. ;-)

                      So far, I think these pans were a good buy for someone looking for a "cheap" good pan if they have a good stove. The light weight is a real asset for people with the limited muscle tone (older people like my grandmother) or with arthritis (like my mother). The smooth surface shows great promise for anyone moving away from disposable teflon pans. For bad rental place stoves, if you can deal with the weight, cast iron still is a better choice IMHO due to even heating. However, the carbon steel pans would be easier to move for a college student or road warrior "vagabond".

                      3 Replies
                      1. re: Sid Post

                        Thanks for the respond Sid. As always, you give very balance feedback. Yes, I do agree with your two main point. 1) it is easier to handle a carbon steel pan than a cast iron pan, and 2) the thicker cast iron pan appears to give a more even heating surface.

                        I don't know if I agree with the "I think these pans were a good buy for someone looking for a "cheap" good pan " statement. These de Buyer pans are not cheap if they are not on sale. $60 for a 10" pan:

                        http://www.amazon.com/Buyer-Mineral-P...

                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                          I think the Mineral pans are slightly more expensive, but still, those prices seem really high. They are cheaper this side of the pond :-

                          http://www.kingsandqueens.org.uk/cata...

                          They even sell them now with stainless steel handles and cast iron handles - but I think I like the el cheapo restaurant-style stamped handles. For me, the attraction of these pans is they perform so well, look great, last forever and are cheap! It's rare to see all of those things together.

                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                            I got mine pretty cheap, cheaper then most of the disposable "teflon" pans I see everywhere. But, I must say I keep an eye out for good deals and I will impulse buy when I see something extra good I'm interested in. That's how I got my hands on some good copper from France.

                        2. Yay, CK!

                          Hmm, the tipping thing is a new issue. My carbonne plus pans are too heavy for any sort of tipping, and yet, I have the thinner crepe pan and just checked it. Tipping is not an issue either. I wonder if they're making them a little different now? I actually pushed on the handles and they didn't move. Can't figure it out.

                          Anyway, so glad to hear reports back on the pans. I find, even with a seasoned pan, that if I pre-heat these pans at a med-high for a minute or two and then add the oil or butter or whatever, I don't have any sticking. I think it's that old "hot pan, cold oil, food won't stick" mantra I've heard forever.

                          I agree that the actual cooking surface isn't larger like my All-Clad, but I takes what I can gets!

                          Good luck and happy cooking!

                          5 Replies
                          1. re: breadchick

                            breadchick,

                            Nah, I don't think they make it different. Blue steel is lighter than carbonne plus. On top of that, mine is 24 cm (9.5"), yours may be larger. If it is not apparent already, I really wish there was a larger one I could buy. I still like Force Blue. Lighter, easier to work with. :)

                            Evidently, a few of us here experienced this very minor tipping issues, so I don't think it is just me. Thanks for stopping by and please feel free to guide answer any question here since you are an old timer with de Buyer cookware :)

                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                              I want that blue steel 24 cm crepe pan...

                              1. re: bushwickgirl

                                :) What is stopping you? Too expensive? Rent is too damn high? :D

                                http://www.amazon.com/Buyer-Pancake-C...

                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                  Hahahaha! According to SNL, water pressure is too damn low! Got to love our NY politics. My job puts me in the political arena, so I'm at ground zero - haha. We were betting on what part of that debate was going to end up on SNL.

                                  Okay, back to the pans...

                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                    Actually...yes. Good water pressure, though.;))

                            2. hi CK

                              One skillet, one crepe pan here. Love both, easy seasoning, no 'tipping' problem so can't comment there, really nice pans to use.

                              1. I have an ancient omelet pan and a new large (14") carbine. The OP is about 8" and not all that thick, about half as thick as carbine, but is superb for omelets...no warping issues.

                                1. I hate computers that think for me. I didn't have my glasses on and didn't see it was automatically changing carbone to carbine!

                                  4 Replies
                                  1. re: tim irvine

                                    :) I was wondering that too. When you wrote "The OP is about 8" and not all that thick", what does OP stands for? Original Poster? but that would be me and you know my pan is not 8" in diameter. Anyhow, Carbonne Plus is 2.5 mm to 3 mm thick, my pan is Force Blue and it is 2 mm thick.

                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                      OP = omelet pan (i tk)

                                      1. re: iyc_nyc

                                        That makes so much more sense. Thanks. We are still waiting for your update. Don't forget :)

                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                          yes, hopefully this wkend (or next!)

                                  2. yes, OP=omelet pan. Sorry.

                                    1. You guys have talked me into it. I just ordered 14" and a 10" DeBuyer Mineral Steel pans. I have been looking for a non-stick pan that can sear and carmelize, that these don't have any of the questionable coatings is a real bonus. I have a 9 inch enamel coated cast iron that does a good job, but it's small for some jobs and quite heavy for it's size. Will let you know how it goes.

                                      Thanks,
                                      jb

                                      2 Replies
                                      1. re: JuniorBalloon

                                        Please keep us posted jb. I am considering to buy the 10" mineral for omlette and fish filets. Thanks!

                                        1. re: hobbybaker

                                          I have had them for a few months now and really like them. I use the 10 inch quite often and have made one omelette. It wasn't quite no stick, but with a little coaxing it worked out very well. I'm sure over time it will just get better. And it sears better than any pan I've used. The 14 inch pan is big and heavy though not as heavy as cast iron. I can still lift it and give things a good flip and it's nice to have an option for sauteing a few more veggies than will fit in the 10. Biggest problem is it's larger than the stove element. Now I need a new stove. :o)

                                          jb

                                      2. great thread, I noticed the sale, bought one (fry pan) and put it in the closet (my recently aquired tri ply pro clad will be in use until I get some cheaper oil to season with) - used the 10 off 30 coupon also

                                        I almost bought the crepe pan instead - I would have but I want to use this for wok-style stir fry as well as searing

                                        1. Any update anyone? Mine is still working great. One thing I like is the ability to toss vegetables in the carbon steel pan which is very difficult to do with my cast iron skillet.

                                          7 Replies
                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                            Noob here so sorry if this is a dumb question: I am looking to replace a 12" nonstick with a 9" cooking surface. Should I get the 12 1/2" or the 14 1/4" round mineral pan? I note above that Chemical says his 9.5" has a 6.5" cooking surface (loss of 3" from diameter meaure, so if that remains static, then the 12.5 should be okay??

                                            1. re: grayelf

                                              this site might help you for the bottom diameters. I found it after the conversation with CK.

                                              http://www.finestcookware.com/catalog...

                                              1. re: hobbybaker

                                                Excellent information for the interior dimensions, so the 12.5" pan has a 9.4" interior (cooking) diameter. I should have gotten that one.

                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                  Beautiful that is just what I needed :-). Also thanks to Chemical above for posting on fritatta success as that is one of the reasons I am looking to buy one of these pans. I plan to pop itin the oven to finish the top and avoid having to flip at all.

                                                  1. re: grayelf

                                                    Wish I can take credit for that, but cannibal is the one who posted about his/her experience with frittata. :)

                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                      His ;)

                                                    2. re: grayelf

                                                      I have gotten so much useful information from this forum, it makes me happy that something I posted was useful to someone =)

                                                      I will try finishing them in the oven next time, sounds like they would turn out good that way!

                                            2. Cost Plus World Market is showing a 9.5" crepe pan back in stock at a good price.

                                              1. Just wanted to update real quick. I wandered into my local sur le table and they had a nice new display with the mineral pans. the 14" pan actually does have a helper handle even though there's no mention of it on the de buyer site. It's massive too, quite a hefty pan. the 12" mineral doesn't have a helper handle but the 12" carbon does...and from what I understand both 12" pans weigh the same.

                                                1 Reply
                                                1. re: cannibal

                                                  I have a 12" mineral on the way, yay! I wanted to thank everyone for their posts -- I'll be coming back here when it arrives to reread the comments on seasoning. I've only ever seasoned cast iron...

                                                2. Bought de Buyers mineral pan and seasoned it by boiling potato skins as per
                                                  de Buyer directions. Cooked scrambled eggs in it after seasoning (cooled and wiped out pan 1st) and they stuck to the pan excessively. Should I re-season the pan, or what? The initial potato skin treatment seriously discolored the pan but as I followed the directions exactly I deemed this to be normal.

                                                  24 Replies
                                                  1. re: patj03

                                                    did you make sure to heat oil in the pan after cleaning out the potato skin water?

                                                    1. re: cannibal

                                                      yes, I used a very small amount of oil. Subsequently when I scrambled the eggs, I used a small amount of butter in the pan and used medium heat to cook the eggs.

                                                    2. re: patj03

                                                      Did you use butter or oil in the pan?

                                                      The videos at De Buyers website ( http://www.debuyer.com/video.php?id=4... ) show what they expect progress to look like. Many people want a faster seasoning and it's usually done with very thin layers of lard or oil and as someone said wisps of smoke work better than a smoking tornado.

                                                      Over time it will become more nonstick and a variety of foods helps. I wouldn't expect it to hit a brand new teflon type slickness.

                                                      1. re: patj03

                                                        also try to pre-heat the pan as well if you aren't already doing so.

                                                        1. re: patj03

                                                          I am pretty sure DeBuyer no longer advises the potato technique anymore. You should just use the regular oil technique directly instead of the potato step and then the oil step. Regardless, after the oil seasoning, the pan should turn dark. You can repeat the step if you just want to be sure. Then, you should able to cook foods with it. Make sure you heat the pan to a proper temperature, then add oil, then add foods.

                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                            wow, I just went to the web site again and chemk you are right: the "seasoning" video now shows seasoning using oil only. (But the 1st pic in the video shows an image from the old potato skin video- the potato skins layered in the pan- which I remember from the old video because I watched it so many times!). Do you know when they jettisoned the potato skin method? I swear that the skin method video was still on the web site when I bought the pan Dec 2010. Also, the tag/booklet attached to the pan instructed me to follow the skin method. Should I try re-seasoning with just oil? Thanks!

                                                            1. re: patj03

                                                              The tag instructs owners to boil the potato peels, the protective cardboard sleeve suggests frying them; I performed the former (twice) before proceeding with the oil-heating step. My Force Blue (why isn't it "Bleu?") crêpe pan is seasoning beautifully and my crêpes flip/slide easily. Given that I'm not the kind of person who fixes things that aren't broken, if I buy more pans, I'll stick with potato peels, especially given how they looked after 15 minutes of boiling in that pan. :O~
                                                              BTW, the potato/oil method is on YouTube.
                                                              I agree with paulj--a well-seasoned pan isn't the same as one with a non-stick coating. I saw a disappointed review on Amazon from someone who not only expected PTFE performance but didn't bother to season the pan according to instructions. It's probably better that such people stick with what they've been using.

                                                          2. re: patj03

                                                            This is not the pan to use for scrambled eggs, especially not the first time. They might even stick on my de Buyers crepe pan which is well seasoned, having used exclusively for omelets and crepes.

                                                            The potato skin bit is not really seasoning, it's more a way (I think) of removing factory oils. Seasoning requires oil.

                                                            Those of us who like carbon steel have given the wrong impression if others think they are direct replacements for PTFE nonstick pans. They are not.

                                                            1. re: paulj

                                                              Honestly, I was not really looking for a replacement for a ptfe pan. I don't like teflon and its cousins and don't own any. I have other carbon steel pans ( I use cast iron too) and I was looking to expand my collection. I have successfully cooked scrambled eggs in carbon steel pans . . . I did a fair amount of research on carbon steel manufacturers and products before buying this pan because I had not purchased carbon steel in a few years. Once I seasoned the pan, I did not think about what food would be the best choice for the 1st pass with the pan. Will try re-seasoning with oil and see how it goes.

                                                              1. re: patj03

                                                                I've had my DeBuyer pan for a few months now and it is becoming more and more non-stick. Eggs stick a bit. I've done a few omelettes and they take some coaxing to get them to slide out and of course butter, but everything cleans up easily.

                                                                jb

                                                                1. re: JuniorBalloon

                                                                  butter always keeps my eggs from sticking, though i have a dedicated crepe/egg pan of the force blue line. One thing I do is take the eggs i'm going to prepare out of the fridge an hour before i make breakfast. that makes a big difference in keeping the eggs from sticking for me.

                                                                  also, juniorBalloon, that picture you have for your icon is hilarious, does your doctor know you're a "smoker"? :D

                                                                  1. re: cannibal

                                                                    I'll try that trick, if I can only get organized an hour ahead. :)

                                                                    My doc is in the dark when it comes to my addiction to smoking. Perhaps some day I'll try to pay him with some delicious 5 hour baby back ribs.

                                                                    jb

                                                                    1. re: JuniorBalloon

                                                                      Anyone have a 'bad' seasoning experience with these pans? My 12 1/2" pan has a little oil that kinda turned into adhesive in the middle of the pan (maybe I wasn't watching and got distracted). I've tried to scrub it off with a plastic pad, but no deal. Should I just go ahead and use the pan? Or is there a way to get the sticky oil residue off?

                                                                      1. re: johnnydub

                                                                        I don't know exactly how sticky we are talking about here. If it is soft, sticky and gummy, you are try to put some baking soda on it and maybe a few drops of water, then you can scrub it with the typical green pad. That should remove most of it.

                                                                        (JuniorBallon's method of heat the pan with enough oil covering it will also work.

                                                                        If it is slightly stick, but very thin and relatively hard, you can just put it on the stovetop and turn up the heat, it will eventually turn harder and not sticky. Or you can just go ahead and use it. It will eventually work.

                                                                        1. re: johnnydub

                                                                          I've had seasoning oil get a little gummy, but nothing that hot water and scrubbing didn't take care of. These were my blue steel deep dish pizza pans. they did have a bit of gumminess, but I used them any ways and after washing in hot water (no soap) the gummy has dissapeared. You migth try putting a 1/4 inch layer of oil and heating that till it's close to smoking. My carbon steel paella pan recommended that as a seasoning step. That should loosen any gummed oil. Is it possible it's not oil?

                                                                          jb

                                                                          1. re: johnnydub

                                                                            I get this sticky oil around the rim of crepe pan, especially if I'm cooking pancakes that don't reach all the way to the rim. Did you cook something like hamburgers in this pan, with an unused spot in the middle? Of the oil could have been too thick at this point last time you seasoned the pan.

                                                                            Is it still sticky when hot?

                                                                            1. re: paulj

                                                                              Well, it's a new pan and I've not used it yet (wedding present). I called Williams-Sonoma (where it was purchased), and was told only a brush and hot water should be used. I forgot to ask exactly what kind of brush. I have a blue Scotch-Brite pad (which says "No Scratch" in big letters on the packaging), and wonder if just that, hot water, and maybe a little, teensy bit of dish soap might do the job safely. By the way, it is Crisco pure vegetable oil.

                                                                              So my two options appear to be: 1) heat 1/4 inch oil until nearly smoking,
                                                                              and 2) scrub with really hot water, and maybe a little baking soda.

                                                                              Sound right?

                                                                              Thanks for your responses.

                                                                              1. re: johnnydub

                                                                                More or less. 1) heat the pan with oil in it until it almost smoking and then let it sit for a minute or so, then dump the oil and the residue would be soft enough to be scrub off. 2) A lot of baking soda (~teaspoon to tablespoon) and only a little bit of water, then srub it with the pad or scrubber.

                                                                            2. re: johnnydub

                                                                              This adhesive thing happened to me when I accidentally boiled the potatoe peels nearly dry. I scrubbed the pan with kosher salt and a papertowel and started over. No problems the second time around.

                                                                    2. re: paulj

                                                                      Hi, paulj:

                                                                      I have never had a problem with eggs sticking in my pans. The thing is, my husband - and my corgis - love omelettes and I find these pans to be easy-peezy for eggs. I can use a silicon spatula to move the eggs around. Usually, I just give the pan a shake and the eggs move around the pan on their own. This was just after initial seasoning too.

                                                                      I wonder if it's possible that performance is based on the type purchased? My are carbonne plus, so maybe that's the issue? Don't know.

                                                                      1. re: breadchick

                                                                        Scrambled or fried? If scrambled, high or low heat?

                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                          I preheat the dry pan on med-high and add the fat after it gets hot. It doesn't matter if I make fried, scrambled, or omelettes - nothing sticks. I think, because I add enough oil/butter combo and let it preheat that it could be the reason why the eggs slide around and cook so well. I can cook additional eggs without adding more fat at that point.

                                                                          Same with potatoes, if I'm making pan roasted fingerlings, or home fries, etc.

                                                                          1. re: breadchick

                                                                            So you don't belong to the slow 20 minute scrambled eggs school.

                                                                            1. re: paulj

                                                                              Nope. Cook'em high, cook'em fast. Out the pan - next!

                                                                  2. Based on the recommendations here, I purchased the Force Blue crepe pan a while back, mostly to use for eggs. The pan came with two different seasoning instructions - potato peel method on the hang tag and just heating/using oil on the packaging. I chose the oil only method, and made an omelet that came out perfectly, with no sticking issues. I cleaned the pan, dried it on the burner, wiped it down with a scant amount of oil and let it stay on the burner to cool off.

                                                                    Today, was my second use of the pan. I wanted some scrambled eggs and as soon as the eggs hit the pan I had a feeling of doom because I realized I didn't put any fat in the pan. I immediately put in a little butter and moved it all around. Color me impressed, because nothing stuck, not even a little bit. The eggs slid right out when they were done.

                                                                    I'm loving this pan! Thanks to all for the wonderful recommendations and advice on both purchase and usage.

                                                                    2 Replies
                                                                    1. re: Molly James

                                                                      Thanks for your update.

                                                                      1. re: Molly James

                                                                        So glad to hear your news!

                                                                        I just made crepes today, and the buttery warm smell as I turned them over was nearly as good as eating them! (Chicken and mushroom with a gruyer sauce - yum!)

                                                                      2. Following Jamie Oliver's example on his Pyrenees food escape I made a Tarte Tatin in my 9.5" de buyer.
                                                                        - melt butter and sugar
                                                                        - add cup up apples (3)
                                                                        - cook a while on stove top
                                                                        - top with a sheet of puff pastry, tucking edges inside the pan around the apples
                                                                        - bake at 400 till nicely browned
                                                                        - invert on to plate

                                                                        I'm sure I could refine it - get more caramelization, pack to apples tighter, thaw the puff pastry sheet earlier.

                                                                        The skillet worked nicely - with one qualification - cooking and cleaning removed much of the seasoning on the pan.

                                                                        27 Replies
                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                          also trying to replace my old teflon, thought of earthpan but you all have piqued my Debuyer interest.. Just a couople questioons.. Can you buy it in stores? i am in MA) Williams Sonoma has the Mineralle line, but not in 8" which i want. She also said that its very heavy like cast iron.. Is the Force Blue substantially lighter, because we do not want a heavy pan at all..Also, the handle looks so uncomfortable and harshly edged as opposed to rounded for the palm.Is it more comfy than it loooks? and does it get hot? THanks so much! Looking forward to joining the Debuyer band wagon if i can find one to check out!

                                                                          1. re: chompie

                                                                            I have the 9.5" Force Blue. It weighs 2lb 11 oz. I just bought an induction compatible stainless 8" 'deep fry pan' (thick base), with the same interior volume (5cups), but weights 1lb 11oz.

                                                                            The Debuyer handle is wide steel, flat but with smooth edges. It is not going to stay as cool as hollow stainless, but I don't have to reach for a pot holder as frequently with the shorter handles of commercial aluminum. But the main distinctive is the angle - these commercial French handles angle up.

                                                                            Costplus world markets (sort of like Pier1) has carried the Force Blue pans on and off, with 50% off prices.

                                                                            Carbon steel is a little lighter than most cast iron, because its thinner. It also seems to season easier. But it is not lightweight.

                                                                            I still use nonstick pans. My favorites at the moment are cast aluminum with induction steel inserts in the base. The thicker the aluminum base the better.

                                                                            1. re: paulj

                                                                              Question:
                                                                              I just purchased 2 deBuyer mineral pans(1x12.5" and 1x9.5") and as I was paying for them, the woman at the shop told me not to use the pans in the oven for no more than 10 mins and to make sure the oven temp doesn't exceed 400 deg.
                                                                              The reason I purchased these pans was to sear meats,fish, poultry and finish them in the oven.This kinda defeats the purpose..Yes?
                                                                              I can get my hands on the regular deBuyer carbons(bit cheaper in price)
                                                                              So what should I do? Keep or return?

                                                                              1. re: petek

                                                                                She has a point (i.e.: she is probably correct). This is because the Mineral pans have plastic/rubber seals at the handles.

                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                  Dang it!! So the other deBuyers would be OK to use in the oven for longer periods at higher temps?
                                                                                  She mentioned something about the special coating on the handles.

                                                                                  1. re: petek

                                                                                    I guess the coating on the handle is also another possibility too. DeBuyer applies a layer of lacquer coating on the handle. Afterall, most people do not season the handle, so this will keep the handle rust free for the customers. According to a post from DiscussionCooking, a poster made the same observation and wrote: “My new De Buyer Mineral pan has a rather heavy, glossy coating (plastic?) on the handle. What do you think will happen when this pan is put in the oven or under a broiler?”
                                                                                    Another poster responded: “THe handles will darken also, but are oven and broiler safe.”

                                                                                    http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/...

                                                                                    From a few other posts, it seems many people have used the Mineral series in the oven without much trouble. Now, how high can you go with the color nob melts that I don't know. (some Mineral pans have the color nobs on the handles, some don't.)

                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                      The' color nob" is silicon and I can remove it so I'm not worried about that,it's the coating on the handle that bothers me.
                                                                                      Chem can you tell by the attached photo and link if these are Carbone Plus or Force Blue de Buyer?
                                                                                      www.sears.ca/catalog/cookwear-open-st...

                                                                                       
                                                                                      1. re: petek

                                                                                        Probably not Force Blue. Force Blue cookware are a bit blackish. Here is a Force Blue photo from Debuyer:
                                                                                        http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id...
                                                                                        and here is the what I believe is the Force Blue from Sear:
                                                                                        http://catalog.sears.ca/wcsstore/Mast...
                                                                                        If you scroll up to the first post, you will see my Force Blue pan. Out of the box, it is already gray/black.

                                                                                        I am guessing the attached photo looks like Carbone Plus or Mineral pans. However, they are a bit expensive for Carbone Plus. Carbone Plus should be relatively cheaper compared to Mineral. Here are some of the Carbone Plus prices I found online:

                                                                                        http://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id...
                                                                                        http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/e...

                                                                                        You may want to ask Sears just to be sure, but the employee may not know.

                                                                                        Reading from other posters, it seems the coating on Mineral is not an issue.

                                                                                2. re: petek

                                                                                  I seasoned mineral pans with the flaxseed oil in the oven at 500 degrees method for hours and nothing bad happened to my pans. I can't really say whether that seasoning method is good or not, but I can tell you that nothing bad is going to happen to your pan if you leave it in a 500 degree oven for eight hours.

                                                                                  1. re: la2tokyo

                                                                                    la2tokyo: It's not the pans I'm worried about but the coating on the handles.Did the handles of your minerals have a film or coating on them?

                                                                                    1. re: petek

                                                                                      yeah they have a glossy coating on them. It was kind of translucent with a brown tone when they were new, but now they're glossy black.

                                                                                      I just noticed that there's a tiny blemish where the handle was sitting on the oven rack (with the pan upside down), so presumably the coating softened a little bit? That did not happen every time because there's only one little mark. Regardless, I seasoned in a 525 degree oven for an hour at a time, ten times, and the handle, although it looks different, still looks new. You might damage it if you leave it in a 500 degree oven until it gets screaming hot, and then try and scrape the coating off the handle, but that seems like a pretty unlikely scenario. I am not worried about it, and will continue to bake them in the oven.

                                                                                      1. re: la2tokyo

                                                                                        Thanks la. As long as the coating doesn't melt, a little discolouration of the handle is not a big deal.
                                                                                        Cheers

                                                                                        1. re: petek

                                                                                          Pete and all,

                                                                                          I finally got the reply from Franck.

                                                                                          "Dear XXXXX,

                                                                                          Sorry for the delay in my answer.

                                                                                          You’re correct, the MINERAL series have a colorful silicone button on the handle and a varnish on the handle but both can withstand 400°F in the oven for 10 mn maximul.

                                                                                          Rgds

                                                                                          Franck CHATELAIN"

                                                                                          This is probably why the saleperson told you the same thing. Debuyer will only stand up the integrity of the pan under the above conditions.

                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                            Thanks doctore! But it's too late. I bought the carbon plus pans without the silicon handles.Best fry pans I've ever used..:D

                                                                                            1. re: petek

                                                                                              I know (being late), but I should post the official Debuyer reply here anyway.

                                                                                              Good to hear your frying pans are working out for you.

                                                                              2. re: chompie

                                                                                Like Paul said.

                                                                                Yes, you can buy them in stores, but more selection online.
                                                                                Yes, Williams Sonoma carries the Mineral series in stores
                                                                                The Mineral series and Carbone Plus are heavier because they are thicker, but even they are not as heavy as typical cast iron cookware because they are thinner. Force Blue is thinner than Mineral and Carbone Plus, so Force Blue cookware are lighter. La Lyonnaise series is lighter still.
                                                                                The handles are not as uncomfortable as they look, not to me anyway. The edges are all rounded, so they are very smooth. I guess they feel much better than All-Clad handles -- though that may not be much of a compliment.
                                                                                Yes, they can get warm, but they never get hot enough that I have to use a glove or a towel.

                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                  thanks! i am still so confoused though.. I looked at the Lyonaisse at DeBuyer.com and liked the look, but the weight was higher than the Force Blue!! Am i seeing it wrong?? I dont see how it could be, since it cuts out a lot of metal by having shorter sides..It was 2.2 lbs for the 8 inch, 1 kg., and the Force Blue was .91 kg..

                                                                                  1. re: chompie

                                                                                    Hi Chompie,

                                                                                    8 inch is about 20 cm. So let look at the 20 cm pan together. Like you said the 20 cm Force Blue is 0.91 kg:

                                                                                    http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id...

                                                                                    The 20 cm La Lyonnaise is 0.45 kg (half the thickness, half the weight):

                                                                                    http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id...

                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                      wow, you were just waiting up to answer me! thanks! thats so wierd cuz i searched lyonaisse and it was 1 kg, so I did it again and discovered that when you search "lyonaisse" on their site that it brings up a lyonaisse pan with the same description but it is a La Carbonne lyonaisse style pan. So I was confused for a reason! thanks again. My hubby still is leaning toward the earth pans looking easier to handle and he's the major egg cook and dishwasher around here..I wish there was a store where we could look at it..maybe we will have to try one of each..

                                                                                      1. re: chompie

                                                                                        By many accounts the Earthpan is going to act like a teflon pan and will wear out and need replacing. The carbon steel pans with the same amount of care should last a lifetime.

                                                                                        1. re: chompie

                                                                                          Chompie,

                                                                                          Earthpan has a good reputation. It is one of the greenpans. Quoting from an article:
                                                                                          "It earned the EarthPan a top ranking from “Consumer Reports” in food-release, hardness (the resistance to wear and tear) and durability."

                                                                                          On the other hand, it is not going to be a long lasting pan. Its manufacturer, Meyer, admitted "The EarthPan is a fantastic product, ranked number one, she says, but like many green pieces of cookware it doesn’t hold up to the durability of Meyer’s popular Circulon line of non-stick pans. “The best green product is not going to be up to the performance of our higher-end non-stick cookware.” Consumers must have realistic expectations, advises Beck (Senior Sales Director of Meyer Corporation)."

                                                                                          You can read the article here
                                                                                          http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/0...

                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                            thanks again! So now the question is where to buy the la lyonnaise? I cant even find it on the internet. dont even see where to buy at debyers site. And does anyone here even own that line?

                                                                                        2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                          I'm just wondering whether the weight/thickness makes any material difference in the performance on an induction cooktop. I was told that just being a magnetic metal does not necessarily make a pot suitable for induction. For example, All Clad makes a tea kettle that is magnetic but relatively thin metal, and the sales woman at Williams Sonoma said it won't work with induction. I know that cast iron is usually thought to be the best material, but the weight makes it difficult to use. To put it simply, which de Buyer line is best for induction use? (Or should I go with Lodge at a fraction of the price but heavier weight?)

                                                                                          1. re: stukin

                                                                                            How would you measure performance in this case? Heats up fastest, gets hotter, or more evenly?

                                                                                            Inexpensive enameled steel (blue speckled camping stuff) works just great on an induction burner. Cast iron works ok, though the heating pattern seems rather localized. Force Blue works fine. But for even heat, cast aluminum with a steel insert is best, with trilayer stainless steel next best (18/10 inside, aluminum disk, magnetic steel base).

                                                                                            A cast iron skillet on an induction burner gets hot in the ring above the induction coil, but outside that ring the iron is noticeably colder.

                                                                                            1. re: paulj

                                                                                              From what you're saying, I presume that the pot or pan should be smaller than the ring above the induction coil, and that the pan should be carefully centered so as to avoid unheated areas.

                                                                                              I have a large stainless steel pot with a steamer insert that is very thin metal. It's definitely magnetic but just stamped out of a single sheet of steel (read, CHEAP!) I was just wondering whether it would work with induction. I recently bought several pieces of Circulon Infinite that are amazingly heavy for such inexpensive cookware. It's highly magnetic at the base, but the sides are non-magnetic. I assume the sides don't really matter as long as the bottom is magnetic. My main reason for getting the Circulon Infinite is that the non-stick coating - I think it's anodized - has been practically indestructible on one that I bought about 3 years ago. Another reason is that the bases fit the burners on my cooktop perfectly.

                                                                                              1. re: stukin

                                                                                                There have been threads about the size of the induction coil(s). Induction hot plates have a coil about 7" in diameter, though the markings on glass might be somewhat larger. Directions give a minumum size, but not maximum. Stove tops might have several concentric coils, handling a wider range of pan sizes.

                                                                                                A steamer base should work fine on any induction burner - at least when boiling water. When I did some boil time tests, the best performer was a stainless mixing bowl.

                                                                                                The Circulon Infinite pans look like they are anodized aluminum with induction compatible steel base. They should work very well on an induction burner.

                                                                                                1. re: paulj

                                                                                                  You're exactly right on the Circulon.

                                                                                                  I'll be using a new GE Profile 5-burner induction range. I've heard that the hot plate-type induction burners are not worth the trouble or the money.

                                                                                                  It should be interesting to see if the steamer pot works with induction. Also, my daughter might be able to use her All Clad tea kettle.

                                                                                2. Hi everyone, this is my first post on chowhound, after a few months of lurking. I'm relatively new to cooking, but I've familiarized myself with cast iron and love it to pieces. However, I recently bought the De Buyer crepe pan so I could finally throw out my wife's flaking, non-stick POS.

                                                                                  I believe the pan is from the Force Blue line. The bluing is nice and uniform throughout. It has some nice heft but much easier to manage than my CI. My only complaint about the fit and finish is the rather ugly spot welds that hold the handle to the pan. It's nice to know that if I ever need to re-attach the handle, I can run out to the garage and fire up the welder (though I like the look of rivets).

                                                                                  For the seasoning process, I decided to go with the potato peel method and then to the oiling. However, it didn't turn brown or black like my CI. Also, I didn't really rinse it out after heating the oil. I just wiped it clean with a paper towel. That was last night.

                                                                                  This morning, I made crepes for my wife using batter that I mixed up last night. I pre-heated the dry pan on med-hi heat, tested with some water droplets, lowered it to med-lo, smeared some butter around and poured in the first crepe. It was the best crepe I've ever made. Even better than in my CI pans which I've gotten pretty good at. Unfortunately, it went downhill from there. I rebuttered the pan, poured in the second crepe and it didn't coat the bottom like the first one. The batter formed a bunch of little voids or holes that I could see the bottom of the pan through. This one and the following became dog food, and the final two were barely salvageable. I thought the first few were supposed to be throwaways and then it gets better?

                                                                                  So there you go, a semi-review of the pan (to stay on topic) and a question. What went wrong? Was it my lazy seasoning technique or something I did while cooking? I doubt it's the pan, with so many glowing reviews in this thread. Thanks in advance.

                                                                                  16 Replies
                                                                                  1. re: hardline_42

                                                                                    I think... I think it is a relatively new pan even it is "force-blued". In the beginning, I would like to season it once or twice on stovetop. Really fast on stovetop as opposed to oven. If you start to realize the foods start to stick, then start to season it again on the stovetop. Just heat up the pan, pour the oil, once the oil starts to smoke, stop, cool, pour the oil out. After a week or so, the seasoning should have stabilized.

                                                                                    1. re: hardline_42

                                                                                      Maybe it's your technique--fear not! :)
                                                                                      This is how I learned to make crêpes: http://www.bravotv.com/foodies/videos... (notice the lacy holes?).
                                                                                      I agree with you about the welded handle; there's a riveted-handle model but as far as I know, it's only available in France: http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id... . :(
                                                                                      I should also add that your pan will darken over time. You've established a foundation but the actual seasoning process (including darkening of the metal) is gradual.

                                                                                      1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                        That was a great video! Thanks for the link. I was getting the lacy holes throughout the crepe, not just the edges. I also noticed that Jacques only oiled his pan once, before the first crepe. I was buttering the pan before each one.

                                                                                        As for the seasoning, I think I just expected to see a more striking visual difference like I see on my CI pans seasoned in the oven. The pics posted above of those deep, black CS pans are amazing and I was hoping to see something like that. Looks like I'll have to make some more crepes to help the transformation along.

                                                                                        1. re: hardline_42

                                                                                          Wasn't that fun? I liked it so much when I saw it on TV 'way back that I bought the DVD set later--I picked it up used on Amazon for $15 and everything is interesting and enjoyable, even to a vegetarian like myself. What's more important, I found it to be an idiot-proof method of making crêpes.
                                                                                          Be patient--you'll have an onyx-like pan eventually!

                                                                                          1. re: hardline_42

                                                                                            Have faith hardline_42!

                                                                                            I have the three crepe pans (jeez, I must love crepes) and my favorite is the deBuyer. I have the Carbonne line, but perhaps they only make one line? I will have to check. Anyway, my crepe batter is exactly the consistency of the video, and yes - I do get the little holes. I simply add a bit more batter - just a bit - and swirl like the dickens.

                                                                                            I have a bowl with melted butter and a silicone brush at the ready. I do brush the pan after each crepe. My pan has reached a nice dark brown stage, but I seasoned it in stages when I first got it, knowing the crepes may be finicky. I heated it on the burner with barely a brush of oil until it reached a dark finish, constantly brushing it with a tong/paper towel.

                                                                                            Now, when I make crepes and the pan heats up I get that warm butter smell, so naturally I immediately run to the fridge and open some champagne.

                                                                                            Sunday morning = crepes = NY Times = champagne. Corgis at the ready in case one of those lovely crepes hits the floor. (Good luck, girls!)

                                                                                            Good luck to you, and may it become a real treat for you as it is for me.

                                                                                            1. re: breadchick

                                                                                              I start the cooking session pouring a bit of oil on to the pan, and then wiping most off with a wadded up paper towel. Then, between crepes, I wipe the pan with the oily towel. That's enough to keep the crepes from sticking.

                                                                                              1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                No, no--my crêpe pan is a Blue Force--they have more than one line and then there's the riveted vs. welded thing.
                                                                                                I can only imagine the corgis staring hopefully at the pan, ready to pounce...Pembroke or Cardigan?

                                                                                                1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                  I have 2 French crepe pans, both with welded handles, one a Debuyer. I also have force blue 9.5" Lyonaise pan. That has a riveted handle (3 rivets). Those rivets would be overkill on the narrow rim of the crepe pan. Plus it is significantly heavier (2lb 11oz).

                                                                                                  I have had a spot welded handle break - on a 6 qt SS pressure cooker. In that case the welds were pin pricks in comparison to the ones on the crepe pans. I suspect one spot weld was weak, putting more stress on the remaining ones, which broke one by one.

                                                                                                  1. re: paulj

                                                                                                    The riveted Force Blue crêpe pan only has two rivets (and a cast iron handle, come to think of it). I think I could still handle it pretty easily unlike, say, a copper/stainless-lined pan. I'm pretty sure that would be too much to handle.

                                                                                                  2. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                    MacGuffin,
                                                                                                    They're tri-color Pems, and the apples of our eyes. Spoiled brats. Because they're such food hounds we don't give them anything but love and baby carrots for treats.

                                                                                                    However, if you look at those faces, it's tough love. They know how to put on the "sad sad me" routine!

                                                                                                    1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                      Oh, TELL me how they can work it! I love dogs and have observed that they know exactly what they're doing--no two ways about it.

                                                                                                  3. re: breadchick

                                                                                                    Thanks for the tips, breadchick. Undeterred by yesterday's results, I put my crepe pan to use again this morning. I made a whole batch of pancakes (yielded 9), the rest of yesterday's crepe batter (yielded 5) and an egg. The results were amazing. Once I got the heat right and only buttered ever three crepes or so, they were just sliding off the pan. My two Weimeraners were at the ready but, alas nothing landed in their bowls!

                                                                                                    1. re: hardline_42

                                                                                                      Good for you! That has been my experience with my pan as well--why complicate life with nonstick when a nicely seasoned pan performs just as well?

                                                                                                      1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                        MacGuffin - plus, the seasoned pans look so well-loved.

                                                                                                        1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                          I love mine!

                                                                                                      2. re: hardline_42

                                                                                                        Glad to hear things worked out for you!

                                                                                              2. I'm having trouble with my de Buyer 12" fry pan. I don't recall what kind it is, but I bought it online from bakedeco.com, which I think only sold one kind at the time.

                                                                                                I've had it a couple of months and seasoned it with the potato skin method. It worked great at first as far as being pretty non-stick, but has gotten less and less so. It has what I would call a dark brown patina on it. Last night my husband got aggravated with it and scrubbed about half of if off, so now it's part silver and part dark brown.

                                                                                                My husband does clean up around here and has on many occasions left the pan for the next morning. I read you shouldn't leave it with soap and water in it ... he just leaves it as is. (Yes, throwing him mercilessly under the bus!) Could this be contributing to the problem? He does always put a light coating of oil on it after he cleans it.

                                                                                                4 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: Emerald_City

                                                                                                  I don't think the potato skin method actually seasons the pan it just removes factory added protective goo(???).There's a video on the deBuyer website on properly seasoning carbon pans.

                                                                                                  1. re: Emerald_City

                                                                                                    I agree with Pete. The first potato skin method is only to be used once. After that, a standard seasoning method using oil. In answering your question, yes, leaving a carbon steel or cast iron cookware in water for long duration is not a good idea. However, that does not sound like what he did. If he merely left a pool of cooked oil and minor food residues on the pan, then it is fine. Many people have done that. It really depends what is/was on the pan. If it was mostly oil after pan frying chicken meat, then it is fine.

                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                      i'm back to bug you again:) Gave up on finding the Lyonaisse and the others are too heavy Was going to just get earthpan, but lately we have been doing eggs and french toast (one at a time) in a tiny old farberware stainless pan, and thought maybe to just go back to the old stainless pans, cuz it seems to not stick if you use it right.Are there any decent LIGHTWEIGHT stainless skillets out there?Like the old Revereware copper bottoms I grew up with?When you search all you get is heavy ware like AllClad, etc. Also we found a stainless skillet that we got as a gift many years ago that seemed too heavy, but now is lighter than whats out there. Its a Lusterware.says made in U.S. I cant find one post about it thru google. Anyowne ever heard of it?? thanks again!

                                                                                                      1. re: chompie

                                                                                                        Are you sure it's not "Lustre Craft?" That's a well-known brand of waterless cookware and the weight you describe would be consistent--it's supposed to be very heavy and durable and is still made here.

                                                                                                  2. We got our 10" Mineral pan in the mail (Amazon) on Friday and just seasoned it last night. So far we've only cooked a couple eggs (with butter, for now), but the pan did very well. So far, so good.

                                                                                                    Yesterday, while searching for the most recent seasoning video, I came across a Mineral pan video that show the pan being made and then seasoning/use/cleaning. I didn't see it posted here, so I thought it was worth sharing. It was kind of fun to see the pan go from sheet metal to the package, looking exactly like the one I just unwrapped.

                                                                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQwCiY...

                                                                                                    9 Replies
                                                                                                    1. re: juise

                                                                                                      Hi gang. I'm new to adding comments to forums, so I hope I'm doing this correctly.

                                                                                                      I've noticed some comments about the smaller de Buyer pans tipping towards the handle. Could this be remedied by taking the pan to a local machine shop (or into your own garage if you're a handy-man) and having them drill some holes up the length of the handle? This would possibly also remedy the problem of the handles getting hot during frying, and could be done to all the pans not just the small ones. Providing the holes were not too large, it shouldn't seriously diminish the strength of the handle.

                                                                                                      1. re: rhymeswithteeth

                                                                                                        Probably. Never tried it. I would like to put a counter helper handle on the other side to counter balance, but that is just a wish/dream which will unlikely to happen.

                                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                          It seems to me that it would be relatively easy to have "helper handles" made and installed at a good welding shop. I wouldn't do this with most pans, but it should be feasible with DuBuyer pans. The handles could be either welded or attached with large rivets. The rivets should be heated and hammered for maximum strength. I don't think this is a job you should attempt to do yourself, and I would bring along a pan with helper handles to show them exactly what you want done. I don't have a clue what it would cost, but it would be interesting to find out.

                                                                                                        2. re: rhymeswithteeth

                                                                                                          I have the 8in Carbon Plus and don't have any handle tipping issues. Sure, it's not as stable at the 12in, but it's not like some of my smaller aluminum All-Clad pans!

                                                                                                          1. re: mateo21

                                                                                                            I have an aluminum 8" 'green' pan with a bulky plastic handle. Drilling it and cutting off an inch made a big difference in its stability.

                                                                                                            I haven't felt a need to make such a change in my 9" Force Blue pan. The Mineral pan I saw at W&S was much thicker and heavier.

                                                                                                            1. re: mateo21

                                                                                                              Just got the 9.5" crepe pan and it sits solidly on it's surface with no tipping tendancy at all. Looking forward to cleaning and seasoning it tonight and a bit of french toast or omelet in the morning!

                                                                                                              Jim

                                                                                                              1. re: mdgolfbum

                                                                                                                Seasoned it twice with olive oil last night and made a 2 egg omelet this morning. Not a hint of sticking. Tasted great! This crepe pan will remain "eggs only".

                                                                                                                I've ordered the 12.5" fry pan and the 12.5 country fry pan now as well. Should be here Monday.

                                                                                                                This has been an eye opening experience! Never would have even considered such a simple solution to non-stick cooking without Chowhounds!

                                                                                                                Thanks!!

                                                                                                                Jim (now spreading the word among family and friends...)

                                                                                                                1. re: mdgolfbum

                                                                                                                  Congratulation. A carbons steel pan is easier to season than most cast iron pans. While both will become very nonstick in the long run, my carbon steel pan only requires one session of seasoning to become nonstick like, whereas my cast iron skillet took more than 2 weeks, I think.

                                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                    What is so surprising is how inexpensive and wonderfully functional this is. I'm really looking forward to cooking with the other fry pans when they arrive.

                                                                                                                    All this was set in motion by our purchase of all new appliances for our kitchen including an induction cooktop. The induction unit is a first for us. We had a gas cooktop in our last house but there is no gas service here. I liked the immediacy of gas and I'm looking forward to the same in induction. We've got all the other induction compatible cookware on hand now but were just missing the frypan part. All done now!

                                                                                                                    All gets installed in two weeks. Can't wait!

                                                                                                                    jim

                                                                                                        3. I love my DeBuyer carbon steel pan, but it leaves a metallic taste on some foods. Eggs, browned meats. Is that normal?

                                                                                                          jb

                                                                                                          4 Replies
                                                                                                          1. re: JuniorBalloon

                                                                                                            The metallic taste will decrease as the pan get deeper seasoned. However, there will always be some levels of metallic taste.

                                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                              Interesting. Is this true of cast iron as well or is it specific to carbon?

                                                                                                              Thanks CK.

                                                                                                              jb

                                                                                                              1. re: JuniorBalloon

                                                                                                                It should be true for both cast iron and carbon steel. They are really not that different.

                                                                                                            2. re: JuniorBalloon

                                                                                                              I don't personally notice a metallic taste noticeable when cooking with carbon steel or cast iron, as long as I avoid reactive foods. I think especially once well seasoned, such tastes should not be noticeable to most people. Cooking with cast iron can increase the iron content of the resulting food, however.

                                                                                                            3. Just received a Mineral (non-b) 12" frypan (~crepe pan) to do french toast and pancakes. We use the carbon steel 9.5 for eggs only.

                                                                                                              Pleased to find that the 12" mineral pan is just a bit thicker and still very manageable weight wise for my wife who has a touch of arthritis. It's getting first pass seasoning now.

                                                                                                              The 9.5 is a real winner for omelets and fried eggs.

                                                                                                              jim

                                                                                                              6 Replies
                                                                                                              1. re: mdgolfbum

                                                                                                                Good to hear. It sounds like a very good strategy to have one pan for omelet and fried egg to preserve the seasoning surface. If at a later time, you need a thinner pan, there are thinner DeBuyer pans as well other brands.

                                                                                                                1. re: mdgolfbum

                                                                                                                  Hi, mdgolfbum:

                                                                                                                  You sound like you're headed toward a full batterie of carbon steel pans. Don't forget the triple blini pan--ne nekulturny.

                                                                                                                  Aloha,
                                                                                                                  Kaleo

                                                                                                                  1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                                                                    C'mon, I know you want it:

                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                                                                      "C'mon, I know you want it:"
                                                                                                                      Ha! Is that real or photoshop?

                                                                                                                      1. re: petek

                                                                                                                        Hey, Pete:

                                                                                                                        Totally real. DeBuyer makes singles, too, but if you can afford caviar at all, you can afford your chef to blini 3x as many/fast. http://www.kingsandqueens.org.uk/cata...

                                                                                                                        Aloha,
                                                                                                                        Kaleo

                                                                                                                        1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                                                                          I want my blini's and I want them now! :-D
                                                                                                                          Love it!

                                                                                                                2. I am looking to buy a de Buyer crepe pan but am not sure which one to get: Mineral B, Force Blue or Carbone plus compound? Apparently the Mineral B 2012 range has been optimised with better non stick qualities and it doesn't have them nasty PFOA and PTFE elements in it. Anyone can shed any light about which range is better (particularly when it comes to non stick qualities)? The pan will be mainly (95%) used for fried eggs and crepes.

                                                                                                                  34 Replies
                                                                                                                  1. re: iliria

                                                                                                                    "Apparently the Mineral B 2012 range has been optimised with better non stick qualities and it doesn't have them nasty PFOA and PTFE elements in it"

                                                                                                                    I do not believe the Mineral B is optimized in any way or form for better non stick qualities. The nonstick property of a carbon steel pan comes from the seasoning process and seasoned surface. As such, it is doubtful that Mineral B is any more nonstick than the other lines. Mineral B is just to be a little be more cute by using beeswax (thus B) for package, that's all.

                                                                                                                    "Anyone can shed any light about which range is better"

                                                                                                                    Any range will work. Gas range will work, electric will work, ceramic will work...etc.

                                                                                                                    1. re: iliria

                                                                                                                      The de Buyer is not the only French crêpe pan available in the US, by the way. The Matfer is available in a variety of sizes and I believe it is less expensive.

                                                                                                                      I think they will all work equally well. Mine is unmarked, except for size. I have no idea who made it, but it works as well as I would expect any pan to.

                                                                                                                      http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/k...

                                                                                                                      1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                        GH,

                                                                                                                        Agree. I cannot imagine carbon steel pan to be substantially different. Some will be made slightly more refine, but that's about it.

                                                                                                                      2. re: iliria

                                                                                                                        If you're thinking in terms of actual non-stick properties you're better off buying an actual non-stick pan. People buy carbon steel and cast iron thinking that it's going to perform like coated cookware and that's just not the case, no matter how well it's seasoned (and such folks often lack the patience required for seasoning cookware anyway--it takes time). In addition, lacy crêpes require a pan with some "stick."

                                                                                                                        Crêpes aren't all that complicated and can be made in an ordinary frying pan if need be. A dedicated pan is nice to have because they tend to be inexpensive (my Force Blue pan was only about $20) and make things easier because they're so shallow.

                                                                                                                        1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                          "If you're thinking in terms of actual non-stick properties you're better off buying an actual non-stick pan. "

                                                                                                                          I think that is a good point and should be repeated as needed -- because a realistic and correct expectation is important. Carbon steel and cast iron pans can be seasoned to a point which is very nonstick, but never going to be as nonstick as a Teflon pan, and that is simply the case. I can cook without a drop of oil on Teflon pans. On the other hand, what makes me really like carbon steel and cast iron cookware is that they can handle very high heat and still remain nonstick. Teflon coated pans cannot and should not be used at high temperature under high heat.

                                                                                                                        2. re: iliria

                                                                                                                          thank you for the advice everyone. I am realistically aware that carbon steel, etc are never going to be as non stick as a non stick Tefal pan. However I am also a firm believer in the saying that "you get what you pay for" so i would rather spend a bit more and get something that will last longer than get a cheaper item that will need replacing after a few years. Hence why I am doing a bit of research before I make the final decision.

                                                                                                                          1. re: iliria

                                                                                                                            I agree with the principle, but am not sure it applies to crêpe pans. A plain steel crêpe pan costs between $10 and $20 today, depending on size. My crêpe pan is of this type, but I have no idea what I paid for it, because I bought it about 30 years ago. I'm sure it will last until someone accidently leaves it in the street and a truck drives over it.

                                                                                                                            Edit: On further inspection, I'm not sure a truck would hurt it. It would probably bend the handle, which could then be bent back. I'm pretty sure a steam roller would flatten the rim, which would ruin it, but I'm not inclined to try it.

                                                                                                                            1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                              "Amen" to that. If there's one culinary bargain out there to be had, it's French crêpe pans, especially if you go "low-end" like I did with a Force Blue model (I can't help but wonder why it's not "Bleu"). There might be something you prefer about the higher-end de Buyer pans that's not related to performance but I guarantee that in the end, you'll be satisfied with any one of your choosing once you start frying in it, as long as your expectations are realistic (which, iliria, it sounds like yours are or at least are heading in that direction). I don't know about either of the Mineral lines but I can tell you that if you go Force Blue and follow the manufacturer's instructions to cook up a mess of potato peels (in water) in the pan before you start the seasoning process, you're going to be one happy camper in almost nothing flat. And my hunch is that the process is probably the same for the pans in the Mineral lines as well. Don't cheat--follow de Buyer's instructions. They've been at this a LONG time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_hcah... . This video is still on YouTube and the de Buyer Web site; the only inconsistency is that the printed material that came with my pan mentions FRYING the peels. Either way, potato peels are still very much in the de Buyer picture and they really do work (they're truly disgusting after 15 minutes; I couldn't even bring myself to use them for compost).

                                                                                                                              There's a nice video segment online, I think through Bravo, that has Julia Child and Jacques Pépin making crêpes together; you can see just how easy this is to accomplish. The more food prep can be de-mystified, especially for something like crêpes, the better. :)

                                                                                                                            2. re: iliria

                                                                                                                              Hi, iliria:

                                                                                                                              Just another thought if this pan is slated to be dedicated to eggs and crepes...

                                                                                                                              There is a very knowledgeable poster here, tim irvine, who has and very much likes his Mauviel copper PTFE-coated pan. Initially, the combination of copper and PTFE sounded to me to be about as dumb as a skydiving anvil, but tim has posted that this particular pan's lining has been very long-lived, and if I remember right, hasn't suffered the kind of degradation one expects with nonstick coatings.

                                                                                                                              Just food for thought.

                                                                                                                              Aloha,
                                                                                                                              Kaleo

                                                                                                                              1. re: iliria

                                                                                                                                I've owned Lodge and other cast iron cookware for years. The best cast iron I had was passed down through my family and was almost 100 years old. Sadly, my non-cooking spouse sold it at a garage sale without my knowledge. It's taken me 20 years to come close to having my current set perform as nicely. It's worth it, but cast iron is heavy. I don't use it for regular cooking so much any more.

                                                                                                                                Why? Carbon steel. I recently got pans from Paderno and deBuyer. I got the Paderno Heavy Duty and the deBuyer Mineral B. I prefer the dMB. While they make cook similar, the experience is very different. The dMBs are much more comfortable because of the handles. The thicker, rounded handles on the dMBs are much better than the thinner, flatter on the PHDs. It matters even more when the pans have food in them and are blazing hot.

                                                                                                                                The handles are long, but they do fit in my GE 30" oven. Only the 14" dMB is tight. The 12.6 fits without a problem. If you have a double oven with smaller-larger setup, don't expect to use anything above the 10" pan in the smaller oven because they're not tall enough. Width is fine though.

                                                                                                                                As to seasoning, well. I see it more as a process rather than once and done. That's how my cast iron worked out so it's what I expect with these. I followed the dMB's directions and YouTube video, and it's moderately successful. I suspect though it would take repeated attempts. I haven't done that though since I think the best thing is to use them and develop the seasoning through proper use, cleaning, and maintenance.

                                                                                                                                I also kept my non-stick for non-high heat cooking (eggs, delicate foods, etc.) as the real issue with n-s comes from high heat more than anything else.

                                                                                                                                I had a full kitchen of Calphalon Anodized Aluminum. Never going back that route again! When AA loses it's properties, it's practically useless.

                                                                                                                                Never been a big stainless steel fan - had some sets when I was younger and never liked how they cooked/conducted heat. Also didn't think they held up over time very well.

                                                                                                                                The only downsides to carbon steel and cast iron are the weight of each and both require hand cleaning. In the end, good food's worth that to me.

                                                                                                                                I haven't gotten a crepe pan. Just don't do crepes.

                                                                                                                                1. re: Rigmaster

                                                                                                                                  Selling a set of beautiful, old cast iron is sufficient grounds for divorce (or worse!). Anyone who has the audacity to sell a hundred year old family heirloom just isn't worth keeping, much less feeding. That would be like someone selling my favorite dog. There'd be no second chance; that's what a .45 is made for.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: stukin

                                                                                                                                    My wife is so hot I'd have let her sell my whole kitchen and not cared.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: Rigmaster

                                                                                                                                      But that piece of Lodge cookware would have remained good looking for another 100 years. :P

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                        So will she. Timeless beauty. Besides, she bought almost everything Lodge has to make up for it on my last two birthdays. I literally have a ton of cookware.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: Rigmaster

                                                                                                                                          "she bought almost everything Lodge has to make up for it on my last two birthdays"

                                                                                                                                          Good. It is important to make her to pay for her mistake.

                                                                                                                                          (You know stukin and I are just teasing you, right?)

                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                            Yes. I know you're ribbing. I didn't even have to ask her for the Lodge cookware. She just ordered everything she thought I'd use. Then she ordered everything I said I'd get at a later date. Never have to ask her to pay for or do anything. In 100 years, someone else in our family will be using this cookware, but I'll still be with her in my next life.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: Rigmaster

                                                                                                                                              "In 100 years, someone else in our family will be using this cookware"

                                                                                                                                              Ah.... not if their wives sold it in another sale :P

                                                                                                                                              "but I'll still be with her in my next life."

                                                                                                                                              Are you a Hindu? :D

                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                Hoping cooks don't have to exist on the fringe of hell if they want more BTUs.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: SanityRemoved

                                                                                                                                                  Hi, SR:

                                                                                                                                                  Look at it this way: The more conductive your cookware, the further from Hell you'd be.

                                                                                                                                                  Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                  Kaleo

                                                                                                                                  2. re: Rigmaster

                                                                                                                                    "As to seasoning, well. I see it more as a process rather than once and done."

                                                                                                                                    No question.
                                                                                                                                    In all honesty, I'd have preferred to buy my pan from the Force Blue line. The only reason I didn't was because I wanted a riveted, rather than welded, handle. The trade-off is an iron (rather than carbon steel) pan that's much heavier than I'd like. Alas!

                                                                                                                                    1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                      Which/what pans are you specifically looking at? My ForceBlue pan is riveted and I think most of them are. You can see my attached photo up above (the first post).

                                                                                                                                      http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id...

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                        This one: http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id... . The handle, despite the way it looks, is apparently welded. And no, the handle of my Force Blue crêpe isn't riveted; the one that is apparently isn't sold here in the States. I had a friend running all over Paris on his honeymoon trying to find one for me but to no avail. :(

                                                                                                                                        1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                          I have crepe pan (DB via CostPlus) that is spot welded (2), and a deeper Lyonaise (also via CostPlus) with rivets (3).

                                                                                                                                          1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                            Interesting, now you get me all excited too. I will take a look of my pan later.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                              I am at home now and took a look at my DeBuyer Force Blue pan. It seems like it is riveted.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                The range of pans shown in the link you sent all have riveted handles. The Force Blue blini pan, however, is described as having a welded handle, as is that on the crêpe pan.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                  MacGuffllin,

                                                                                                                                                  Mine looks like a riveted handle, but I could be wrong. Maybe it is a welded handle and faked to be a riveted handle. Thank for telling me this. I will take a closer look and investigate closer. Appreciated,

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                    The pan in your first post isn't a crêpe pan, it's one of those skirted pans. They're all welded (the link you posted states this).

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                      "The pan in your first post isn't a crêpe pan, it's one of those skirted pans. They're all welded (the link you posted states this)."

                                                                                                                                                      I see. I thought you meant all ForceBlue are welded. Thanks for the correction.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                        No, some are one way and some t'other. The blini pan looks to be riveted but, according to the product description, isn't. My little Mineral Element B blini (or "blinis," as dB describes it) pan is cute as hell but weighs a ton. I was also surprised at how much more massive in appearance 2.5 mm is than 2.0 mm but I suppose the small size of the pan could partially account for this.

                                                                                                                                                        This is the Force Blue crêpe pan with the welded handle: http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id... . Unfortunately, it wasn't to be found in any of the stores my friends visited while in Paris. :(

                                                                                                                                          2. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                            My crèpe pan (not de Buyer) has a welded handle, and it's held up for 30 years. It's a small one, though (18 cm). I don't think rivets are important for the smaller sizes, at least. My 10" Mineral pan has rivets, but that's a much heavier pan.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                              I realize that rivets aren't essential. However, I like them, and I like gratifying myself. :)

                                                                                                                                              1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                Different point of view I find economy of design attractive, and take pleasure in using tools which are efficiently and appropriately engineered. Rivets on my delicate 7-inch crêpe pan would make it look absurdly over-engineered, like a (insert your favorite example here). Rivets would also hurt the performance by adding mass (as crêpes are flipped with one deft motion) without any compensating benefit.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                  My crêpe pan is larger and I don't flip anyway. I don't flip blinis either. :)

                                                                                                                                    2. Where are the good deals today? I'm looking for a big crepe pan -26cm or so. Thanks!

                                                                                                                                      1. Hello,

                                                                                                                                        I am so new to the de Buyer pans that I am embarrassed to announce. I just got 2 crepe pans since somebody mentioned you can cook them faster if you work on 2. Usually it takes 30 min for family to devour my work.
                                                                                                                                        Anyways, I just seasoned the first pan. Did the potato peeling per you tube video and oil per booklet in the package. They said to boil 1 cm of oil for 5 min, then throw and wipe dry with towel.
                                                                                                                                        I was so anxious that I could not wait for it to cool. I threw an egg to see .. just for kicks. Wow did that slid away!! Did not add extra oil.
                                                                                                                                        I am not sure what I am doing but I got this film brownish looking (color doesn't bother me). At the margin of this film though it's king of "gunky". I can see it and scrape it with my nail. Is that what we call "patina". Sorry for my ignorance, but I don't wnat to ruin it if that's what suppose to do the trick.

                                                                                                                                        5 Replies
                                                                                                                                        1. re: ciresica

                                                                                                                                          If by "gunky" you mean it has a gummy or sticky feeling, don't fret. It is oil that was too thick to become seasoning. Use some Kosher salt with some oil and a paper towel on a warm pan to remove the gummy residue. Rinse with hot water and dry.

                                                                                                                                          The seasoning will gradually add up with cooking or you can repeatedly use a very light coat of oil and season it on the stove top.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: ciresica

                                                                                                                                            "I got this film brownish looking"

                                                                                                                                            Normal.

                                                                                                                                            "it's king of "gunky""

                                                                                                                                            Same question as Sanity has risen. If it is sticky and gummy, then the oil was too thick and it created this impartial burned oil. You can remove it as the salt technique described by Sanity, and you can also try to scrap it off using a plastic scrapper or a old credit card.

                                                                                                                                            For real patina, it should be fairly thin and very hard. You should NOT able to scrap it off with fingernail.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: ciresica

                                                                                                                                              I truly think that the best potato peel method is with water, not oil (see the manufacturer's video on YouTube). Regardless, I think you need to start over. You should be able to remove what's on there and begin afresh but don't use so much oil this time--just enough to cover the surface and hold it below the smoke point for five minutes (which is what I seem to recall is the time included in the instructions). I posted an excruciatingly detailed review of my experiences with this pan on Amazon that many readers seem to have found helpful.

                                                                                                                                              Bear in mind that a proper patina takes time. This isn't something that will afford a new owner instant gratification (a concept that those used to non-stick cookware seem loath to accept). Try not to be over-anxious.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                Thank you all for your quick replies. I am glad I have experts around, love this board. I am a novice cook but lately discovered the good things.
                                                                                                                                                Did the potato peels with water. The oil seasoning is where I think I overdid. I used vegetable oil and when the oil was hot I swirled it around to season the sides of the pan. I will scrape and do it again. Per the mineral B video they season only with a few drops of oil and smear that with paper towel.
                                                                                                                                                I got so exicted with my pan that I seasoned the back too. Somebody gave me an idea that I can do panini if I have 2 pans. I can heat the second one and put it on top. That's why I thought I should do the back also. The back I only smeared with oil and looks actually great. I will be more careful with the second one. Thanks again.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: ciresica

                                                                                                                                                  Your welcome. Please update

                                                                                                                                            2. Now will these carbon steel DeBuyer pans give off any metallic taste if acidic foods are cooked in them? Like sauteing onions and simmering tomato sauce. CS isn't as corrosion resistant as SS. The seasoning can still be penetrated no matter how well its seasoned.

                                                                                                                                              DeBuyer has caught my interest since there is a lot of discussion about it. I'd like hear any cons about these pans as well.

                                                                                                                                              9 Replies
                                                                                                                                              1. re: unprofessional_chef

                                                                                                                                                I think your pans need to be seasoned very well before attempting acidic foods.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                  "I think your pans need to be seasoned very well before attempting acidic foods".
                                                                                                                                                  Agreed. I have done gobs of caramelized onions in my pan(after it was well seasoned) with no problems at all,haven't tried deglazing the pan with wine or simmering tomato sauce so I can't speak on that...

                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  1. re: petek

                                                                                                                                                    Oh, MY those look good! And I don't think I'd attempt any deglazing either.

                                                                                                                                                  2. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                    Best to leave the deglazing to a nonreactive pan or until the CI pan has built up significant seasoning that comes through years of regular use.

                                                                                                                                                    BTW - I got one of the Force Blue Crepe pans b/c it was cheap and just to try it out. I seasoned it using the following steps:

                                                                                                                                                    1) Rinsed in hot tap water for 3 mins. Scrubbed with soft nylon 3M scrub pad and lightly soaped really hot dishwater for 3-5 mins. It takes a lot of elbow grease, but you can see and feel the protective oil coating coming off. When the pan feels clean and oil (actually greasy feel) free, dried with towel.

                                                                                                                                                    2) Put clean, dry pan on high burner for 5-8 mins (I did several Mineral and Mineral B pans at the same time too). Pans will turn black, blue, brown, or possibly even a mix of several colors, but the point is to make sure all the surface impurities are burned off.

                                                                                                                                                    3) Wiped inside and outside with peanut oil-soaked folded paper towels. Caution - it will initially smoke heavily so use venting. Key point is to have a thin layer of oil - as thin as possible. People often make the mistake of leaving too much oil on at this point.

                                                                                                                                                    4) Place back on low to medium-low burner for 15 minutes.

                                                                                                                                                    5) Repeat steps 3 and 5 for three cycles.

                                                                                                                                                    6) Allow pan to cool. Wipe one last time with lightly-oiled paper towel before putting away.

                                                                                                                                                    The only difference between these steps and how I do my cast iron is that after the third cycle on the stovetop, I do a fourth cycle in a 350-degree oven that includes leaving the pan in the oven for 4-8 hours (4 if I have something to do; 8 if I do it overnight while I sleep), and I usually wait until I have at least two pans or some type of need to do extended cooking in the oven. The process has never failed me.

                                                                                                                                                    The result is my pans aren't dark like my cast iron, but they're pretty well seasoned. I cooked an egg in each one using a different technique (e.g. over easy, over medium, over hard, scrambled) in each pan, and every egg came out without sticking or leaving any egg in the pan. I used a quick spray of Pam for the eggs so that definitely helps, but it's how I'd cook anything I expected to stick in a pan. Also preheat pans before use and start eggs on lower temp then raise if necessary.

                                                                                                                                                    No metallic taste. Couldn't even tell the difference from nonstick. That said, it was just a test. I'll go back to eggs in my nonstick because I don't want to watch my eggs cook like I did for this trial.

                                                                                                                                                    I also clean without soap using a heated pan, paper towel, and kosher salt scrub followed by a hot water rinse, towel drying, 3 mins on a high burner to dry, and a quick wipe with oil before putting away for storage. Same routine as for cast iron. Never had a gunk build up. Never had a major sticking mess.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Rigmaster

                                                                                                                                                      Excellent write up. I want to make the jump to CS because I hate it when oil burns in my SS. But that's a good thing with CS.

                                                                                                                                                      My first choice is the 24cm/9.5" Mineral Round "Country" Frypan. Does anybody own this and could tell me the diameter of the bottom cooking surface? It will save me a very long trip to WS. If it's more than 8" I'll be happy. Otherwise I'm going with the 26cm/10.2" frypan.

                                                                                                                                                      "BTW - I got one of the Force Blue Crepe pans b/c it was cheap and just to try it out."

                                                                                                                                                      Where is good place to pick up a DeBuyer? Both Mineral B pans are $60 right now at Amazon. I may go for a lighter weight Force Blue if the price is right.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: unprofessional_chef

                                                                                                                                                        CostPlusWorldMarkets has carried Force Blue pans, both crepe and 9.5" Lyonaise, and periodically had them at half price. I don't know if they currently have them or not.

                                                                                                                                                      2. re: Rigmaster

                                                                                                                                                        Too complicated for me but I'm glad your method worked for you. I tend to stick with the manufacturer's suggestions for stuff like this; I figure that a company that's been successfully manufacturing the same type products for so long probably has the inside track on how best to treat their products (even if the potato skin method seems baffling and a tad bizarre). I do agree with your choice of oil, though. Peanut's great for this sort of thing; I used rice bran oil. They're both inexpensive with high smoke points.

                                                                                                                                                    2. re: unprofessional_chef

                                                                                                                                                      What everyone else said about deglazing ... I forgot and accidentally deglazed my pan for a veal sauce with white wine a while back -- yuck, yuck, yuck! It was seriously bad.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Emerald_City

                                                                                                                                                        Ha ha ha. I remember doing this for a newly seasoned carbon steel wok. Not glazing per sa, but was using white vinegar to create a sauce. Much of the seasoned was gone after that.

                                                                                                                                                    3. So.. here is the update....
                                                                                                                                                      The stuff was kind of sticky and I followed sanity's advice with salt and oil. Most of it came out but at this point I am not going to worry too much. It's just the sides. Seasoned #2 pan and I noticed that the potato peelings when boiling leave a starchy residue on the sides. I did not notice this with the first pan and probably that amplified the stickiness with the excess oil.. Long story short.. I went right ahead and put them to use. Crepes.. came out great. Only used a 1/2 tsp of oil after I heated the pan well. From there on.. it was NONSTICK - did not need more oil or butter.
                                                                                                                                                      Today I tried scrambled eggs and pancakes. Both came out good. No sticking issues. WOW.. I am sold on carbon steel. I have yet to sear a steak on this but I am looking in getting some more. And I bought the force blue deBuyer crepes pan from WS because of a 25% discount and free shipping on the Xmas sale - I had no clue what I was getting into - did not even know about CS.
                                                                                                                                                      Now I am so excited but I realize I have a lot to learn about it.
                                                                                                                                                      Beginner as I am, I do realize that there are 3 components to great cooking: pan (material), heat source and technique. Maybe more but let's just keep these in mind for now.
                                                                                                                                                      I have a gas cook top and I noticed it's limitations with my 2 pans experiment.
                                                                                                                                                      The burners have influenced considerably the results given the similarities between the 2 pans. That did not prevent anybody from eating their crepes.
                                                                                                                                                      I have found that the 9 inch (24 cm) pan is a good size for crepes, omlette but I find it a little small for pancakes. I feed 4 so I need to move fast.
                                                                                                                                                      It weighs about 2 lbs (or 900g ) and it's pretty good to maneuver when you spread the crepes batter around. To me this is the perfect pan for crepes.
                                                                                                                                                      The bigger burner has given an even cooking. The smaller burner next to it has struggled to keep things even. I increased the heat on the smaller burner just a bit hoping to make a difference but the result was to create hotter spot on the pan. I will attach some pictures for you to see. Did not get above medium setting on the heat though.
                                                                                                                                                      Have you seen that with force blue pans? I know it's only 2mm thick but for home use that should be enough. I was hoping for a more even heat distribution. Am I missing something or I have high expectation on this?

                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      13 Replies
                                                                                                                                                      1. re: ciresica

                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for the update. It is awesome. Do you have happen to have a recipe for the crepes. :)

                                                                                                                                                        "I know it's only 2mm thick but for home use that should be enough. I was hoping for a more even heat distribution. Am I missing something or I have high expectation on this?"

                                                                                                                                                        Carbon steel and cast iron has ok heat distribution, but not nearly as good as aluminum and copper. I think the greatest strength of carbon steel is that it can handle very high temperature and can be fairly nonstick at the same time. Teflon cookware are very nonstick, but cannot handle high heat or metal utensils. Stainless steel, aluminum... etc can handle high temperature, but does not provide the same level of nonstick as carbon steel. In term of heat distribution, you may have a higher expectation than it can deliver.

                                                                                                                                                        You can try to get the thicker deBuyer pan, and that will give you slightly better heat distribution.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks chem. I do have a crepes recipe.
                                                                                                                                                          I use metric measurements though ... those European roots :-)
                                                                                                                                                          250g all purpose flour, 500 mL milk (I use 2%), 3 medium eggs, 40 g melted butter.
                                                                                                                                                          Mix them all good with a hand mixer and you are good to go. I have noticed that if you strain this mix you have better results. You do not want to have any lumps. I use about a 1/3 of a cup in the hot pan but that may be different depending on the size of the pan you use.
                                                                                                                                                          I prefer them thin so if the mix is too thick and it's not moving around in your pan fast enough you could add some more milk.
                                                                                                                                                          My Kitchen Aid 10 inch non stick round griddle pan is going to be retired.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                            Chemicalkinetics:

                                                                                                                                                            You mentioned "carbon steel and cast iron has ok heat distribution, but not nearly as good as aluminum and copper."

                                                                                                                                                            Aluminum has good heat distribution, but poor heat retention. Copper is fantastic for both, but you can't cook directly on it, so it's mainly useful as a coating on the underside (i.e. non-food contact surface) or as a sandwich within a pan construction.

                                                                                                                                                            As for the question ciresica was asking above: the difference she describes is probably due to the burner on the stove. "The bigger burner has given an even cooking...". Most likely that's because the bigger burner is, well, a bigger burner. On gas ranges which have different sizes, and on some that don't, the "larger" burner is designed to provide more BTUs than the smaller burners for a given setting on the knob.

                                                                                                                                                            You can test this for different burners by putting the same amount of water in identical pots, putting them on the different burners, and setting each burner to the same "knob" setting. See what comes to a rolling boil first.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                              "Copper is fantastic for both, but you can't cook directly on it, so it's mainly useful as a coating on the underside (i.e. non-food contact surface) or as a sandwich within a pan construction."

                                                                                                                                                              There are pots for making candy that are all copper, I assume because sugar syrup isn't reactive: http://www.williams-sonoma.com/produc... .

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                                Yeah. I was thinking of uses as a sauté or frying pan where you'd be more likely to get oxides formed and possibly leach copper into the food when there's an acid present. I was also typing fast and was somewhat drunk. Floods. Locusts.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                  LOL

                                                                                                                                                                2. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                                  I think it really depends on the level of copper we are talking about. Most healthy adults have a decent way of handling excessive copper -- to a certain level.

                                                                                                                                                                  However, acids are much better at extracting copper out from the cookware. Second, when you make candies, you are probably not eating the candies everyday evey meal, whereas you could easily be eating from your copper fry pan every single day. So, duration, frequency and efficiency all matter. They are good reasons for lining copper cookware.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                    All I posted was that there are some all-copper cooking utensils and that what's cooked in them probably isn't reactive.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                                      It was my fault for saying "you can't cook directly on it". There are reasons to minimize cooking directly on it. I was just trying to be helpful about steel products and got carried away.

                                                                                                                                                                      I vow henceforth to disengage the chemical engineer lobe and engage the proofreader mode before posting.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                        :))

                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                                        Talofa, Mac:

                                                                                                                                                                        You know, it's strange. Most high-end jam pans are bare copper, as are zabaglione and polenta pans. In the first two cases, the foods are quite acidic.

                                                                                                                                                                        There is a historical quirk, too. England (at least its nobility) has a centuries-long history of cooking in copper, and until the 19th C., it seems no one there tinned anything. They certainly had wines and citrus available to them, too, though probably not tomatoes. So, especially considering that almost all foodstuffs are acidic to some degree, I think perhaps a little too much is made of the reactivity of bare copper to all acidic foods.

                                                                                                                                                                        Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                        Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                    What's 'heat retention'?

                                                                                                                                                                    The basic thermal properties of metals conductivity and heat capacity. Heat capacity is usually stated relative to mass, can be converted to a per volume number.

                                                                                                                                                                    Per mass aluminum heat compacity is about 2x that of copper and iron, but due to a big density difference, aluminum's per volume heat capacity is about 2/3 that of iron and copper.

                                                                                                                                                                    Under what circumstances is 'retention' important?

                                                                                                                                                                3. re: ciresica

                                                                                                                                                                  That's about the best you can expect from the typical round burner. To make many pancakes rapidly it is hard to beat a electric griddle - one that has heating elements evenly distributed across the whole area. Regardless of the pan material, the further a spot is from the burner, the cooler it will be. That's just the nature of heat flow.

                                                                                                                                                                4. Hello again,
                                                                                                                                                                  I am still in research mode and trying to figure our a replacement for my non-stick pans.
                                                                                                                                                                  The non-stick aspect of CS is very attractive to me but I am wondering what kind of foods is it best for. I was wondering was is everybody cooking in their CS pans.

                                                                                                                                                                  My go to pan is a 10 inch stir fry pan of hard anodized alum. I prefer the sides of my pan to be higher to keep the mess in the pan and not all over the kitchen. Similar with this one:
                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.amazon.com/Calphalon-Conte...
                                                                                                                                                                  I've been looking for replacements and have tried a few but got somehow disappointed with most of them.
                                                                                                                                                                  1) tried a Lodge CI - is very heavy for my wrists. Can barely lift the 8 in skillet without food but still good for hash browns and frying needs.
                                                                                                                                                                  2) tried white enamel CI (LeCr) - not impressed and it kind of sticks a lot - returned it.
                                                                                                                                                                  3) tried clear enamel CI (Stb) - not as sticky but still very heavy - still use it for frying.
                                                                                                                                                                  4) SS (no name) - not impressed, sticky and returned it.
                                                                                                                                                                  5) deBuyer for crepes - totally sold on it but that just for eggs, crepes, or pancakes.

                                                                                                                                                                  I am still looking and I want to give it a try to CS - ideal pan would be the 10 inch country-side:
                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/2...

                                                                                                                                                                  Not as heavy as CI. Force blue looks under 2 kg but it comes in 2 mm. I don't know if that means a lot in heat distribution challenges. Can yo share your experience if you happen to have one?

                                                                                                                                                                  Did not make it to the high end super expensive brands.. I am price conscious and I use pans for cooking not for showing. Don't mind seasoning at all, love pampering them.

                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you all,

                                                                                                                                                                  15 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ciresica

                                                                                                                                                                    So you want a pan with high side (edge) and be somewhat nonstick. Since you did say your go to pan is the 10" stir pan of hard anodized aluminum, so why are you looking for a replacements? Is there any aspect of it you want to improve?

                                                                                                                                                                    The deBuyer Force Blue will be slightly lighter than the deBuyer Mineral version and better heat response. Conversely, the Mineral version is physically more robust and has better heat evenness distribution.

                                                                                                                                                                    "Did not make it to the high end super expensive brands"

                                                                                                                                                                    deBuyer actually is the high end of carbon steel pan. You can get noticeably cheaper pans if they are not deBuyer.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                      A good quality CS pan is going to be quite heavy.My 12" de Buyer carbone plus is very heavy(8-10lbs?),but has a helper handle.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                        I am concerned more about safety rather than looking for an improvement. It has a non-stick surface. It's been starting to show signs of wear and tear. I read things about safety, they still add some polymer layer of some sort on the cooking surface.

                                                                                                                                                                        I was taking about the "high end" - the very expensive copper brands with several layers that are mentioned on some of the discussions on this board.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ciresica

                                                                                                                                                                          "I am concerned more about safety rather than looking for an improvement. It has a non-stick surface"

                                                                                                                                                                          Some anodized aluminum cookware has nonstick surface, but some don't. If yours don't, then you don't have to change.

                                                                                                                                                                          "I was taking about the "high end" - the very expensive copper brands"

                                                                                                                                                                          Copper is known to be a very good heat conductivity, but copper cookware are almost always lined with some other metals like stainless steel or tin. These lined metals cannot be compared to a seasoned carbon steel pans. A Telfon nonstick pan is the most nonstick, and after that is the seasoned carbon steel or seasoned cast iron pan. Stainless steel lined or tinned copper cookware cannot compare to them. If temperature evenness is the most important thing to you, then a copper cookware is good. However, if a nonstick-like surface is more important, then you are better off with a Teflon pan or seasoned cast iron/carbon steel pan.

                                                                                                                                                                          There is no one cookware which provides everything. We just have to prioritize what is most important.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                            I have one hard anodized pan that does not have a non-stick interior. It's a 10" (3qt) aluminum dutch oven. Volume wise it similar to a 10", may be even a 12", 'stir fry' pan, but the sides are steeper. Stickiness is roughly the same as enameled.

                                                                                                                                                                            While I bought it for camp use (with coals), it's been useful for stews, and as a deep baking dish.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for the info, paul.

                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: ciresica

                                                                                                                                                                            A carbon steel pan will develop a "non-stick" surface after several uses simply because you allow it to build up a layer of cooked-on oil byproducts. You'll get the same effect with a well-seasoned and well-used cast iron pan, but carbon steel equipment isn't as heavy. Basically, the reason carbon-steel manufacturers claim the pieces are "naturally non-stick" is because you're building up the non-stick layer over time, with several uses, but forming a layer over time. The non-stick layer, for both carbon steel and cast iron, is, basically, a cooked-on history of what you're cooked before.

                                                                                                                                                                            If you intend to deglaze with acidic liquids (wine, citrus, tomatoes, etc.), you have to be careful with carbon steel--very acidic liquids will loosen and remove some of the "baked on" coating you've built up over time, and may affect the taste of whatever dish you're making at that time. You won't hurt the pan, but just keep it in mind--you don't want to make tomato sauce, wine-based sauces, or lemonade in your carbon steel pan.

                                                                                                                                                                            If you're on a budget, and want to try carbon steel that's still good quality, look for a source for Matfer. If you're near a restaurant supply source, check with them.

                                                                                                                                                                            As for copper: that's only useful if you're looking for very good heat regulation. You don't want to use a copper pan that doesn't have a lining of some other metal--you DON'T want to cook directly on copper. Copper cookware made to be used for cooking has a lining, usually tin, inside where the food contacts it. Some cookware touts a layer of copper in the lining between different metals; this supposedly helps with heat distribution (see All-Clad's line).

                                                                                                                                                                            Non-stick pans that use PTFE have two drawbacks: (1) the PTFE coating degrades and begins to flake over time, and (2) PTFE is made using perfluorinated materials that can depolymerize and vaporize if you forget and heat the pan dry for a long period of time. There's no proven health issue with either of these for humans (other than dry-heating PTFE equipment when new--Google "PTFE and birds"). FYI: I'm a chemical engineer who's worked in polymer development for 25 years; I don't own any cookware with a "non-stick coating". Not that I have any reason not to: I just prefer things that flake off in my cooking to be things that I understand.

                                                                                                                                                                            Finally, the 10" country side pan you linked to is great. I have two of those, and two of the larger versions. Again, you won't get the full non-stick results until you've seasoned and used them a couple of times, so don't expect it to be perfectly non-stick after the first few uses.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                              I should clarify the above: when I said "PTFE", I was referring to poly(tetrafluoroethylene), or Teflon PTFE. This is sometimes incorrectly referred to as "Teflon"; Teflon is a trade name for highly or totally fluorinated polymers manufactured by DuPont; PTFE used to be the only version of this material, made and marketed by DuPont. There are variations on the chemical structure, manufactured by different companies, and the product may or may not show PTFE, Teflon, Silverstone, or some other indication of what the coating or treatment is. Usually, if there's a visible coating on the piece, it's probably some version of this, that you may not be able to trace back to the chemical source.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                                Hi, jghanc: "You don't want to use a copper pan that doesn't have a lining of some other metal--you DON'T want to cook directly on copper."

                                                                                                                                                                                This is far from a universal rule. Polenta, confectionary, preserve and zambaglione pans are commonly bare copper. Unlined brass cooking vessels are still widely used, especially in India. From a historical and health perspective, tinning came about not to prevent copper from leaching into food during cooking, but to prevent longterm formation of copper salts in the pan, i.e., during the >95% of the time *between* cooking. At worst, the former causes mild gastric upset; the latter is what is worrisome.

                                                                                                                                                                                "The non-stick layer, for both carbon steel and cast iron, is, basically, a cooked-on history of what you're cooked before."

                                                                                                                                                                                Yes, but seasoning is not limited to CI and carbon steel. As Vollrath instructs, its bare aluminum and SS pans should also be seasoned in comparable ways to CI and high carbon. Likewise, my own experience with tin- and silver-lined copper is that these linings also benefit from some seasoning in the form of polymerized fats. I am coming to the conclusion all cooking surfaces except nonstick itself benefit to some extent from seasoning. This raises the interesting possibility that a seasoned bare copper pan isn't really bare...

                                                                                                                                                                                Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                                                                                                                                  I didn't mention zabaglione pots because they're more along the lines of the inserts in double boilers in principle but you're absolutely right. I wasn't even aware that this is also the case for polenta, so thanks for passing that along!

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi, Mac:

                                                                                                                                                                                    Welcome, of course.

                                                                                                                                                                                    If bare copper hurt people, Italy would have been depopulated long ago. If you go to eBay.it, you can buy these great polenta pots with automatic stirrers.

                                                                                                                                                                                    And it's not *acidity* per se that makes the difference, as witnessed by all the jam pans in France and the apple butter kettles here in USA. Both those applications take considerably more acid than does a simple deglazing dose of wine or spirits.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                    Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                                                                                                                                      So, I learned something. I must have been foggy when typing due to that wine I was drinking out of a lead goblet. I kid, I kid.

                                                                                                                                                                                      My starting point (from years ago) about copper concerns was with Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking". In particular, pages 622-623. His summary: "No one will be poisoned by the occasional zabaglione whipped in a copper bowl, but clearly copper is not a good candidate for everyday cooking." This, after he describes the health problems that can arise due to excessive copper ions in foods.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi again, jghanc:

                                                                                                                                                                                        I re-read McGee, and he gives copper the same short shrift as do most authors. While I agree with him insofar as powdered oxides and greenish salts are things to steer clear of, I'm less sanguine over his other conclusions. I am especially dubious about the claim that tinning came about as a result of copper leaching into foods during cooking.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a knowledgeable friend, a retired museum curator and fellow copperware addict, who is trying to pin down exactly when tinned copperware came about. I had assumed that it, along with the 'smithing, came to Europe with returning Crusaders. But while there is solid support for 'smithing's arrival then, she assures me there is *almost nothing* on tinning prior to the Renaissance. There is also almost nothing that can be characterized as copper poisoning (e.g., no scullery maids with emerald hair).

                                                                                                                                                                                        Interestingly, NIH's NLM does not cite copper cookware as a source of copper poisoning. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/en... Nor does it mention the real elephant in the closet--copper pipes. As with aluminum (and perhaps PFOA), cookware is just not a huge contributor of the problem element/compound.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I wonder how many folks who worry aloud over cooking in copper rip out their copper plumbing. Harold?

                                                                                                                                                                                        Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                        Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: kaleokahu

                                                                                                                                                                                    I didn't mean to insinuate it's limited to steel pans. There probably is some benefit to other surfaces (other than PTFE) if you have a cooked-on layer, if it sticks to the pan. Looking at my old All-Clad and Viking SS pans, there's something there, but it's not nearly as pronounced as what I've got on the carbon steel cookware, which, I assume, is due to the porosity and surface roughness on those compared to my SS pieces.

                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't have any silver-lined copper. How do you like that? Is it worth the expense or can you get similar results with something else? The pieces I have are tin-lined.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi, jghanc:

                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: silver-lined... I only have one such pan, a vintage 2mm frypan, on which I got a real bargain. I have not had it long, but I like it. It stuck like crazy at first, but after a little "seasoning", it sticks a little less than any of my tin-lined copper. I also like the fact that I do not have to worry about heat degrading the tin if I preheat it.

                                                                                                                                                                                      I recently found a plater who can put a 90-micron layer of silver onto any copper pan, but it's pricey--whereas most tinners charge $5/inch, this is $16. So, "worth the expense"... probably not for me. Perhaps if I have a financial windfall, I'd consider doing a premier-grade saute in silver.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                      Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                          3. I came across this site looking for de Buyer reviews, and after reading the following, I figured I'd join, and give some experiences I've had with carbon steel cookware (including de Buyer). I have about 10 pieces of de Buyer Mineral, some I've been using for a few years now. These comments are pertinent only to the Mineral line.

                                                                                                                                                                            First, as several have mentioned, the preparation of the new pan can be a bit confusing. Using potato peels is a cheap way to use a natural abrasive and slightly acidic medium to get off the processing oils used in making the material. You can wash it in lightly soapy, hot water, or do what I've done: put boiling water in the pan over high heat, and add a few squeezes of lemon juice. Swirl around, discard, dry the pan, and then go to the "seasoning" with oil step. The potato peel and/or washing stage ISN'T seasoning. For seasoning the pan: add enough oil to fully cover the bottom cooking surface with maybe 2 mm depth; heat and swirl until you start to see a shimmer above the oil (not smoke--that's too hot), then removed from the heat, swirl the hot oil around, and let sit until cool. Discard the oil and wipe it down with dry paper towels.

                                                                                                                                                                            Secondly, if you've done a first seasoning of a cast-iron pan before, you can do the same here. Basically, the patina that builds up on a carbon steel pan is the same thing that happens when you use a cast-iron pan--it's just more obvious, since the pan isn't black. If you feel that the pan is getting too much of that stuff built up after several uses, you can use boiling water and lemon juice to deglaze much of what you've already built up.

                                                                                                                                                                            I have two go-to de Buyer Mineral pans that I use for most every sauté and broiling purpose, with the exception of highly acidic foods. The little button that's in the de Buyer handle hole should be discarded--it serves no purpose. My stove is a gas Viking. I've used the Mineral pans for every level of heat on the burner, and with baking and broiling. The handle discolors over time, and using in the oven gives you even more of the baked-on patina from oil splashes, but I've had no issues with using my Mineral pans under direct broiler flame, even when placed an inch or so from the flame.

                                                                                                                                                                            You have to be careful about deglazing seasoned pans, whether carbon steel or cast iron, if you're using an acidic liquid. The "patina" that builds up over time is mainly lightly polymerized fatty acids from the oils used in the pan, and that material either loosens from the metal or begins to depolymerize, depending on the acidity of the liquid used. You can deglaze with wine as long as you realize that it'll pull off some things that you've cooked in the pan previously, and if you're very sensitive, you may detect a slight metallic taste from the iron ions.

                                                                                                                                                                            If you do decide to deglaze a pan with wine, you won't hurt the pan, but you may remove some stuff that was cooked onto the surface from many meals ago, and you'll affect the taste of whatever dish you're making.

                                                                                                                                                                            For cleaning, in my experience, I'd recommend removing the food you've cooked immediately after cooking, then add hot water to help "deglaze" the pan. Bring it to boiling, and push the big bits off with a wooden utensil. Pour out the water, heat the pan until dry, wipe it down with a cloth, and give it a rub with a little dash of oil (rub the oil in with a paper towel to coat the inner surface). Store and use again.

                                                                                                                                                                            For the oldest de Buyer Mineral pan I have, I usually just have to wipe the inner surface clean with a rag (or boil a little water in it to loosen the spices or bits that remain), then put a little oil in for storage, rubbed onto the cooking surface (in my case, it sits on top of the stove for the next use).

                                                                                                                                                                            If you're interested in a pan that looks brand new a year after purchase, you DON'T want carbon steel.

                                                                                                                                                                            5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                              Very nice advices, jghanc. Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for your kind words. I've responded to earlier messages above, and I hope I've provided something useful.

                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                                qquestion... what about cleaning the outside of the pans... hope to prevent hot spots.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: GotDOCG

                                                                                                                                                                                  Just scrub with hot water and a nylon scrub pad. Dry by heating on stove for 1-2 mins. After it's cool enough but still hot, wipe with a little canola oil on a paper towel or napkin - just enough to barely leave a film. Let cool. Put a way.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Rigmaster

                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks... my 10" pan "refused" to approach non-stick... I followed your boils water with lemon juice to take back to the beginning and then re-seasoned... let's see what happens when I use them tomorrow!!!

                                                                                                                                                                              3. how does one pronounce deBuyer?

                                                                                                                                                                                5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: seamunky

                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xUwtH... (The de Buyer Web site tends to be hinky; I know this one will play.)

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                                                    A French friend tells me it's pronounced like "duh buh YAY". My first language is Redneck, so I get as close as I can without the sneer. Down here, no one knows what it is anyway, so that gives me some leeway.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: jghanc

                                                                                                                                                                                      Absolutely! My son has taken 4 years of french and when I get his advice on pronunciation he just snickers at me and rolls his eyes. Seems my East Tennessee accent doesn't do any of it justice ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                                                      Sorry if this is late but it's worth getting right. The pronunciation in the video commentary is an Americanization of the French pronunciation, with the common "day" sound for the "de" instead of the correct "deh" sound. The full correct pronunciation in French is most like: deh-bwee-yay. Of course french vowel sounds can be tricky for foreigners - C.F. dessous vs. dessus which mean completely the opposite of each other. The "wee" part of "bwee" is sounded with a pout of the lips, rather than the way most English speakers would speak it.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Scunnerous

                                                                                                                                                                                        Gee, I don't know...it sounds like "deh" to me. The u sounds pretty spot-on as well. Is this any better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h7uxo... ?

                                                                                                                                                                                  2. Has anyone found the Carbone Plus rectangular grill pan available in the US? This one: http://bit.ly/Z1zK8B. Can't find it for sale in any Internet searches. I'll be in Paris in May if it's available locally. Also, has anyone used this pan? I'm looking for something roomy that I can use over a couple of gas burners on my range. I recently got a Mineral B Element round fry pan that j'adore! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                    3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: jhopper28

                                                                                                                                                                                      That's a nice griddle! It might conduct heat better than a similar cast iron model, too. You might want to contact de Buyer before you leave about vendors, though. A friend unsuccessfully sought a dB pan I wanted while he was in Paris (on his honeymoon yet, poor guy); it would seem not every store carries them.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: MacGuffin

                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for the advice. I've contacted them…I'll post an update with their reply…

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jhopper28

                                                                                                                                                                                          Just for the hell of it, call La Cuisine and see if they'd order it for you (expect to pay top dollar, though). It doesn't hurt to ask.

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. Hi Chem,
                                                                                                                                                                                      I am just about to season my carbon steel de Buyer pan. I have read a lot in these posts about seasoning. Is it possible to let us know your method for seasoning the pan? As your pan looks fantastic.

                                                                                                                                                                                      I wanted to season the pan on my stove but unfortunately I have an electric stove. Do you think it is still possible to get a good season on the electric stove or should I just settle for the oven method? Also when seasoning the pan on the stove (using very thin layers of flaxseed oil) do you keep the pan on the stove on the highest heat until the pan stops smoking and then removing it to let it cool down or do you remove it as soon as the oil starts to smoke?

                                                                                                                                                                                      Final question, do you rub oil only on the inside of the pan or do you do it all over the pan (inside and out)?

                                                                                                                                                                                      Your help is much appreciated!

                                                                                                                                                                                      4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Mo323

                                                                                                                                                                                        I usually do a two part seasoning. First, I season the pan in the oven just for once. Then, I season the pan on the stovetop. The only reason I season in the oven is if I also want to season the exterior surface of the cookware. Otherwise, no need.

                                                                                                                                                                                        <Do you think it is still possible to get a good season on the electric stove or should I just settle for the oven method? >

                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, I think it is perfectly ok to season on an electric stove. Electric stoves are just as good as gas stoves for seasoning cookware. The only cookware which the gas stove may have an advantage for seasoning is the wok -- due to the curvature.

                                                                                                                                                                                        <Also when seasoning the pan on the stove (using very thin layers of flaxseed oil) do you keep the pan on the stove on the highest heat until the pan stops smoking and then removing it to let it cool down or do you remove it as soon as the oil starts to smoke?>

                                                                                                                                                                                        It depends how bad the smoking is. I try to heat the oil so that you can barely see the fume/smoke. After that, you can turn down/off the heat and swirl the oil around the cookware. If the smokes look excessive to you (you will know), then remove the cookware. Electric stoves tend to have a longer lag time than gas stoves. So your pan can continue to heat up a bit even after you turn off the power.

                                                                                                                                                                                        <Final question, do you rub oil only on the inside of the pan or do you do it all over the pan (inside and out)?>

                                                                                                                                                                                        Only if you want to do the oven seasoning. There is no reason to rub the outside of the pan for stovetop seasoning. In truth, you really don't need to do this since the exterior surface will eventually get seasoned even if you don't do anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                        DeBuyer has a video about stovetop seasoning. You can find it on youtube, here. You can skip the potato skin step if you like. It is up to you:

                                                                                                                                                                                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgC-y...

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                          Thank you very much for your quick response. I guess that you use a fair bit of oil when seasoning on the stovetop to be able to swirl the oil around. I was thinking of putting a table spoon of oil and then using a paper towel and wiping down the whole surface and then bringing it to temperature.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Do you think that putting a larger amount of oil and swirling it arounds is a better way to do it? Then removing the oil, letting it cool down, and then repeating the process again?

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Mo323

                                                                                                                                                                                            <I guess that you use a fair bit of oil when seasoning on the stovetop to be able to swirl the oil around. I was thinking of putting a table spoon of oil and then using a paper towel and wiping down the whole surface and then bringing it to temperature.>

                                                                                                                                                                                            Oh yes. That will work too. You can either use quite a bit of oil to swirl around on the hot pan. Or you can apply a tablespoon of oil or so and use a papertowel and a pair of tongs.

                                                                                                                                                                                            <Do you think that putting a larger amount of oil and swirling it arounds is a better way to do it?>

                                                                                                                                                                                            Nah, I have done it both ways, and they are both good. To use the papertowel, it is better to constantly wipe the oil with the papertowel during heating, not just in the beginning. This will ensure a better and more even seasoning surface.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Her is smoking a lot more than I do, but other than that, the idea is similar:

                                                                                                                                                                                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sesa...

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Mo323

                                                                                                                                                                                              Apologies for jumping in on your conversation with Chem, but I feel compelled to jump in. Using too much oil is a waste of oil and increases the possibility of making a mess or even of burning yourself or a bystander if you mishandle the pan. For one thing, the oil becomes less viscous when it's heated, hence you don't need a lot. Bear in mind that you're not frying anything; you're attempting to bind a thin coat of oil to metal. I recommend a Tbsp. or two of oil (depending on the size of the pan), using a silicone spatula to spread the oil over the surface of the pan prior to and while it heats. Use a fat with a high smoke point (e.g. peanut, rice bran, ghee, maybe lard), don't heat the pan too fast (i.e. don't rush), and don't let the oil smoke--hold it below the smoke point for 5 minutes, carefully spreading it with the spatula to ensure that the entire surface benefits. Using just enough oil allows you to safely and neatly wipe the pan with paper towels immediately AFTER pre-seasoning. Forget flax--you're looking to season, not lacquer. And swirling is going to increase your chances of splashing/burning.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Don't make too much of this because it really isn't rocket science. The instructions included with the pans work like a charm; I speak from experience.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Here are my two cents -- now that I have owned these pans for a good 2-3 years, I just can't imagine doing without them. Mine are Carbone Plus. Never had any difficulty with seasoning, very much nonstick, easy to clean. And cheap, too. What's not to love? I don't rate them as highly as the couple of Demeyere that I own, but I honestly reach for them more often.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: seattle_lee

                                                                                                                                                                                            < I don't rate them as highly as the couple of Demeyere that I own, but I honestly reach for them more often.>

                                                                                                                                                                                            Why do you reach for them (carbon steel) more often?

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                              +1