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What are the places/things that SF does better than Boston? [moved from Boston board]

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Hey winedude,

This probably belongs on the SF board, but what are the places/things that SF does better than Boston? I'm headed to SF for my first time in about a month and have done a lot of research but would love some advice from someone who's lived in both places.

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  1. I'm happy to offer my suggestions, though the moderators may move this off to the SF Board, I guess. I'll try to keep it real by comparing it to Boston-things:

    1. Vietnamese food: I haven't found anything particularly good in Boston, though I'd loved to proven wrong. There's decent Pho here, and some of the main dishes at Pho Pasteur are pretty good. But nothing here compares to Slanted Door. The new location in the Ferry Building is beautiful, they've lost a small step in the charm factor, but the food can still be great if you're lucky.

    2. Everything else in the Ferry Building, especially the Farmer's market on Saturday. I'm REALLY hoping that the long-promised year-round market in the Parcel 7 buidling would have even just a little of what's there. Blue Bottle Coffee, Rechiutti chocolates, Miette bakery, Cowgirl Creamery, Acme Breads. Wow.

    3. XOX Truffles in North Beach. The best I've ever had, rustic, small, relatively inexpensive, hand made. There's nothing like it in Boston that I'm aware of--LA Burdick in Harvard Square is probably closest--By the way, I should add LA Burdick Hot Chocolate to something that Boston does way better than SF--it's awesome.

    Need more?

    20 Replies
    1. re: winedude

      I don't mind following this thread to wherever the moderators move it.

      Bring it on. I've got both Slanted Door and Out the Door on my list. We may end up at Out the Door because we'll have both toddler and parents in tow. So most meals will be family friendly, but wife and I will sneak out for at least one dinner on our own.

      We also will definitely be going to the Ferry Building, though because we arrive on Saturday afternoon and leave the following Saturday, we'll have to go to one of the smaller farmer's markets there.

      I've got over 80 places bookmarked at http://brianjkern.yelp.com/ but I clearly won't get to all of them in a week. High on my list at the moment, in addition to your suggestions, are:

      Yank Sing for dim sum.
      Dottie's True Blue Cafe, Ella's, and Slow Club for breakfast/brunch.
      Bi-Rite and Humphry Slocumbe for ice cream.
      Dynamo Donuts.
      Rosamunde Sausage Grill.
      Tartine Bakery.
      PPQ Dungeness Island Vietnamese Cuisine for garlic noodles & roasted crab.
      Zushi Puzzle for sushi.
      San Tung for dry fried chicken wings and dumplings.
      Boccalone for salumi.
      Penang Garden for hot & spicy crab.
      It is highly likely we'll find ourselves at In-n-Out at some point, too.

      I could use recommendations for ramen, XLB and bahn mi. I've got several places bookmarked for each but nothing head and shoulders above the rest.

      Thanks!

      1. re: BJK

        Wow, you have done your homework!

        You can get your XLB fix at Yang Sing, or if you want to go to a smaller place that specializes in them there is Shanghai Dumpling King and Shanghai House, both located in the outer Richmond district (call ahead to make sure they are open).

        For bahn mi, Saigon Sandwich in little Saigon is the spot. Don't let the long lines deter you, as they move fairly quickly.

        I love all your picks, but unless you like your chicken wings cloyingly sweet be sure to ask the waiter at San Tung to go easy on the sauce.

        -----
        Saigon Sandwich Shop
        560 Larkin St, San Francisco, CA 94102

        Shanghai House
        3641 Balboa St, San Francisco, CA 94121

        Shanghai Dumpling King
        3319 Balboa St, San Francisco, CA 94121

        1. re: Civil Bear

          The best banh mi in SF is at Little Vietnam Cafe in the Inner Richmond - definitely has superior ingredients (esp. bread) to Saigon Sandwiches, and cleaner, and friendlier.

          However, BJK ... the best banh mi in the U.S. (ok, that I've had, which includes lots of places in New England, New York, LA, and the Bay) is right in your home town of Boston: Mei Sum in Chinatown (on Beach St.). Done.

          -----
          Little Vietnam Cafe
          309 6th Ave, San Francisco, CA 94118

          1. re: Eris48

            Do either Little Vietnam Cafe or Saigon Sandwich have seating? Or are they all takeout like they seem to be in Boston?

            One of these days I'll give Mei Sum in Chinatown a shot. I usually get my banh mi fix at either Viet Cafe in the food court at the former Super88 food court in Allston or at Ba Le in Dorchester.

            -----
            Saigon Sandwich Shop
            560 Larkin St, San Francisco, CA 94102

            Little Vietnam Cafe
            309 6th Ave, San Francisco, CA 94118

        2. re: BJK

          I agree with Civil Bear that you should get your XLB at Yank Sing--they have the best XLB I've had in the Bay Area, though the rest of the dimsum, while by and large decent, does not compare with the dimsum at Koi Palace and Tai Wu in Daly City (both 15-20 minutes by car from the city center). In any of the dimsum places, it is advisable to be there as early as possible in order to avoid the long lines.

          -----
          Koi Palace Restaurant
          365 Gellert Blvd, Daly City, CA 94015

          Tai Wu Restaurant
          1080 Foster City Blvd, Foster City, CA 94404

          1. re: pilinut

            If you have a car, Koi Palace is definitely the better bet for dim sum. I find Yank Sing's dim sum to be just about on par with Hei La Moon in Chinatown Boston.

            -----
            Koi Palace Restaurant
            365 Gellert Blvd, Daly City, CA 94015

            Yank Sing
            49 Stevenson St Ste Stlv, San Francisco, CA 94105

            1. re: yenyen828

              I didn't think Koi Palace's dim sum was worth the drive or (unlike Yank Sing) the relatively high price.

              http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/5843...

              -----
              Koi Palace Restaurant
              365 Gellert Blvd, Daly City, CA 94015

              Yank Sing
              49 Stevenson St Ste Stlv, San Francisco, CA 94105

        3. re: winedude

          Weather!

          Okay, that and...

          As you seem to have found out, a lot of asia-related stuff is better here.
          I second Saigon Sandwich for your banh mi.

          A couple of things may interest you that are not restaurants, per se.
          First, go into any Safeway and compare the produce to Star Market. If you cook, that should alone should make you want to move here.
          And safeway is the bottom of the barrel compared to the Ferry Buidling or any farmer's market.

          Second, if you like Sake, make sure to stop by True Sake. It's the US's first sake-only store and their selection is amazing.

          Sushi on the east coast can be great. Don't know about Boston but I know in NYC there are some great places. But I might try omakase at Ino Sushi, Zushi Puzzle, or Yume (in Alameda).
          Each is a different, but very SF as constrasted with Boston. Ino is a quiet sushi master, the place is very plain and quiet, but the food is sublime. Sushi Puzzle, the guy is a hoot, with great food. And Yume is a little in between the other two (if you go there make sure to get the giant scallop). All have wonderful food. Also, Kiss Seafood has a delightful 5-6 course omakase that has a sushi course, and a sashimi course, and other things -- just wonderful.

          Aziza - nothing like it elsewhere, especially if you like cocktails.

          I lived in Boston long ago and don't remember any bbq. It's not like SF is the bbq capital of the world, but there is a place I like -- Memphis Minnie's in the lower haight - that fulfills my occasional hankering.

          -----
          Saigon Sandwich Shop
          560 Larkin St, San Francisco, CA 94102

          True Sake
          560 Hayes St, San Francisco, CA 94102

          Kiss Seafood
          1700 Laguna St, San Francisco, CA 94115

          Ino Sushi
          22 Peace Plz # 510, San Francisco, CA

          Zushi Puzzle
          1910 Lombard St, San Francisco, CA 94123

          Ino Restaurant
          25 Miller Ave, Mill Valley, CA 94941

          1. re: pauliface

            Safeway and the Ferry Building are no brainers. We rented an apartment so we'll definitely be stocking up on snacks and some staples.

            True Sake looks great. The wife will love it.

            And while we definitely have some excellent sushi in Boston, including a few chefs who trained under Nobu Matsuhisa, my sister and husband-in-law are New Yorkers who absolutely loved Zushi Puzzle, so I think that is a must for us.

            And Boston has come a long way on the BBQ front in the past 10 years. It's still no Memphis, that's for sure, but I've got higher priority eats on my list for my SF trip.

            -----
            True Sake
            560 Hayes St, San Francisco, CA 94102

            Zushi Puzzle
            1910 Lombard St, San Francisco, CA 94123

            1. re: pauliface

              The produce at Safeway makes me want to move back to Italy. Boston's really that bad?

                1. re: pauliface

                  You can get great produce in the Boston area during the summer and fall at farmer's markets, farmstands, etc. And some things like apples tend to be much better than here. But for supermarkets, Safeway certainly is far better than my memory of Star Market - though they may well have improved over the years.

                  Michael

                  1. re: mdg

                    All the major chains in Boston suck, but there are some options for good produce. Wilson Farms in Lexington and Russo's in Belmont are both farm stands open year round with prepared foods and some meat, fish and eggs. And some of the Market Baskets and Roche Brothers have some decent options. And there's always Whole Foods.

                    1. re: BJK

                      Wilson Farms was a regular shopping stop when I lived in Arlington. Is Arena Farms still out on Route 2? That was another great place, just a few miles outside 128.

                      Michael

                      1. re: mdg

                        Sadly Arena Farms closed. Hard to believe it was 3 years ago! http://www.boston.com/news/local/arti...

                        1. re: BJK

                          Oh, too bad - I still remember their Macoun apples. I'm happy to see that Wilson is still there though. We lost our local farmstand a couple years ago. Today I saw the bulldozers out, demolishing the orchard to make way for a housing development.

                          Michael

                2. re: Robert Lauriston

                  The produce at Safeway in the Bay Area is comparable to the produce at high end grocery stores (Whole Foods type) in the Boston area.

                  1. re: JasmineG

                    This may be true in SF proper but I don't know if it's true all over the Bay Area. I lived in San Jose for 2 years after growing up in the Boston area, and I was utterly depressed by what I could buy (produce and everything else) at the local Safeway. But then I'd been shopping at the aforementioned Russo's for years, not at a big chain. Spoiled.

              1. re: winedude

                Saigon in Allston on cambridge st by co-op (still there?) was an old house turned restaurant w unbelievable Vietnamese food....you'd swear the guy clarified the broths for the pho....super fresh and run by I think a Vietnamese couple...amazing fresh rolls!......ate there a lot.....better Indian in that neighborhood IMHO than in Sf too...also, .Fromaggio Kitchen back in the day truly kicked ass! so did a lot in the North End-Alora, Artu, plus Galleria Italiano near commons (B Lynch's best stuff....)et al....Havent been to Beantown in years though....

              2. Hi all. If any of you happen to know both SF and Boston well, I'd love your input regarding my questions above & below.

                Thanks!

                12 Replies
                1. re: BJK

                  It's been 15 years since I lived in Boston, but I get back to that area about once a year, usually to Cambridge. The Asian and Mexican recommendations are spot on. I would also recommend a California cuisine place like Zuni Cafe in San Francisco, or Chez Panisse in Berkeley. With California's year-round growing season, the overall quality of produce is so much better than what you can get in the Boston area. (There are always some exceptions, like apples this time of year.)

                  The ingredient effect also makes it worth trying some of San Francisco's Italian restaurants; though Boston is strong there, San Francisco's are different. Perhaps the best choice for different-from-Boston is La Ciccia, which serves Sardinian food.

                  I have yet to see a barbecue place in the San Francisco Bay Area that is anywhere close to the barbecue you can get at Redbones, and I know people say that there's even better barbecue that has opened up in the Boston area over the years. So I'd give barbecue a pass.

                  Fish and seafood overall isn't as good as in Boston, but do try some of the local fish while you're here. You'll miss crab season, but black cod / butterfish and petrale sole are flavors I haven't tasted in Boston. Local sardines are a treat too, and abalone if you can find it. It may make more sense to get seafood entrees at a Cal / Ital / Asian / Mexican place than to go to a seafood specialist.

                  Enjoy!
                  Michael

                  -----
                  Zuni Cafe
                  1658 Market Street, San Francisco, CA 94102

                  La Ciccia
                  291 30th Street, San Francisco, CA 94131

                  Chez Panisse
                  1517 Shattuck Avenue, Berkeley, CA 94709

                  1. re: mdg

                    Some sort of California cuisine would be of interest, too. Would an almost 3-year-old toddler be out of place at Zuni Cafe? Perhaps we do that for brunch or lunch?

                    A splurge would be good, too. In a week in SF, we'll probably go out without the offspring once or twice, and have made a reservation at Gary Danko for just that purpose. If we're better off spending big dollars elsewhere, I'm all ears.

                    -----
                    Zuni Cafe
                    1658 Market Street, San Francisco, CA 94102

                    Gary Danko
                    800 N Point St, San Francisco, CA 94109

                    1. re: BJK

                      Nothing against Gary Danko, but their menu is in large part the kind of international French food that might be made just as well in Las Vegas or Dubai.

                      1. re: Robert Lauriston

                        I got that impression myself from their Website. It was highly recommended by two friends whose opinions I trust, but at the same time, I've been to Paris several times and would far prefer something truly, uniquely SF. Is TFL out of the question? Too far to drive? Impossible to get a reservation? Any other high end splurges worth considering instead of Gary Danko?

                        -----
                        Gary Danko
                        800 N Point St, San Francisco, CA 94109

                        1. re: BJK

                          I don't think Gary Danko shows off uniquely San Francisco like you want, though it's very fine. If you're still 30 days out, Chez Panisse - downstairs, not the upstairs Cafe - would fit the bill.

                          If you have a car, two of the most individual high-end places these days are in Silicon Valley - Manresa and Chez TJ - and they're about an hour's drive each way. TJ's chef is an MIT alum. Both are easier reservations than TFL, where I think you need to get it exactly 2 months out.

                          If you want to stay within the city, the Ritz would be an excellent choice. Coi might work too; I haven't been yet but hope to fix that later this year.

                          Michael

                          -----
                          Manresa Restaurant
                          320 Village Lane, Los Gatos, CA 95030

                          Chez Panisse
                          1517 Shattuck Avenue, Berkeley, CA 94709

                          Gary Danko
                          800 N Point St, San Francisco, CA 94109

                          Chez TJ
                          938 Villa Street, Mountain View, CA 94041

                          1. re: mdg

                            I 3rd Manresa...sort of a cross between TFL and Chez Panisse. A bargain compared to TFL as well.

                            Produce-wise, if you have time, head over the Berkeley Bowl (easy by BART) and look at the produce. There's better stuff at farmer's market and the like but there's nothing with the volume, variety, quality and price, perhaps anywhere in the U.S. After looking at this, you will laugh and cry about Safeway.

                            -----
                            Berkeley Bowl
                            2020 Oregon St, Berkeley, CA 94703

                            1. re: ML8000

                              Yes, I would second Berkeley Bowl. The variety is amazing. The farmer's markets are great.
                              Papa Beard creme puffs covered with chocolate are a nice afternoon pick me up. Morning buns (a cinnamonny croissant dough bun) are something I haven't seen in Boston but enjoy here. The cupcakes here are good -- I like Kara's Cupcakes.
                              I am not a fan of the bacon maple doughnut (expensive, greasier than the normal donut) but it is unusual. There are many mom and pop donut shops unlike Boston and you'll see good sugary apple fritters.

                              -----
                              Berkeley Bowl
                              2020 Oregon St, Berkeley, CA 94703

                              1. re: Tumkers

                                Beard Papa is an international chain based in Japan. The shells are made with margarine in Japan and shipped frozen. Might be better to save that for your next trip to Orlando or Fort Lee.

                          2. re: BJK

                            Benu, where the chef used to be the CdC at TFL. Conveniently located in the City.

                            Coi, the only restaurant in SF with two Michelin stars (at this point). The food may be a little too unique for some people's palates.

                            Also a little different from the mandatory high-end French places and expensive steakhouses: Ame.

                            1. re: nocharge

                              Thanks guys. I'll check out all of these places. Chez Panisse and Manresa have both come up in other searches, but I haven't really looked very closely at the high end stuff.

                              -----
                              Manresa Restaurant
                              320 Village Lane, Los Gatos, CA 95030

                              Chez Panisse
                              1517 Shattuck Avenue, Berkeley, CA 94709

                              1. re: BJK

                                Manresa is amazing right now. My recent mail was beyond speech. The trick there is to do the regular wine pairing. Not to save money; they're just better pairings.

                                -----
                                Manresa Restaurant
                                320 Village Lane, Los Gatos, CA 95030

                    2. re: BJK

                      I live in sf but am from the east coast and lived and spent much time in boston..I work in the food business but haven't been in years, however:
                      see my other posting about Saigon in allston, ma (not sure if extant)
                      there is Great produce back east....the seasons are more defined there, i.e., summer isn't always 5+ months....I cooked at some great restaurants in btown in the early 90s and we got great local produce....(concord/north ansd south shore, etc....)
                      In sf Le Soleil in the Richmond is good vietnamese (Saigon in Allston was superior, though!) Saigon Sandwich in Tloin is also good....
                      Again, haven't been to Boston in years, but in SF, IMHO:
                      Blue Plate
                      El Farrolito
                      R&G Lounge
                      Salt House
                      Marnee Thai (22nd Ave)
                      Grubsteak (LATE night....)
                      Tonys Pizza NBeach...
                      Sebo on a good nite
                      Suppenkuche
                      La Ciccia
                      Phat Philly
                      Canteen for brunch
                      Dotties
                      Pork Store on haight
                      Quince

                      -----
                      La Ciccia
                      291 30th Street, San Francisco, CA 94131

                      Saigon Sandwich Shop
                      560 Larkin St, San Francisco, CA 94102

                      Sebo
                      517 Hayes St, San Francisco, CA 94102

                      Blue Plate
                      3218 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA 94110

                      Suppenkuche
                      525 Laguna St, San Francisco, CA 94102

                      Marnee Thai Restaurant
                      1243 9th Ave, San Francisco, CA 94122

                      Pork Store Cafe
                      1451 Haight St, San Francisco, CA 94117

                      Phat Philly
                      3388 24th St, San Francisco, CA

                      Salt House
                      2 Shaw Aly, San Francisco, CA 94105

                      Le Soleil
                      1515 E 14th St, San Leandro, CA 94577

                    3. I'd grab some Mexican food...a ginormus amount of taquerias and taco trucks, a few sit down places. I'd hit up Taqueria Cancun, La Taqueria, El Faralito, El Toyanese Taco Truck or Nopalito or Poc Chuc.

                      -----
                      Taqueria Cancun
                      2288 Mission St, San Francisco, CA 94110

                      La Taqueria
                      2889 Mission St, San Francisco, CA 94110

                      Poc Chuc
                      2886 16th St, San Francisco, CA 94103

                      1. I've been to Boston and it's a beautiful town. The seafood there is superb.

                        But here I think, if you come right now, the produce at the Farmers' Markets, and all the ethnic food, especially Mexican and Asian.

                        1. The funny thing about this thread is everywhere listed isn't on my list of favorite places to eat.

                          First, fine dining. TFL, Manresa, COI, Commis.

                          Second, all the great medium-neighborhood places. I'm looking forward to Plum, for example. I like Salt House even though it's not highly recommendable for visitors. Oysters, cocktails, some nice small plates (fois gras three ways), how could someone not like that? A million little places.

                          Third, beer. There's a few good breweries on the east coast, but most are further south (Brooklyn, Dog Fish). Compared to the Toranado, Russian River Brewery, I think we're pretty far ahead.

                          How is Boston for street food, like Off the Grid, the Pizza Hacker, etc? There's nothing quite like stepping out of a club and being faced with a bacon wrapped hot dog.

                          Boston has traditionally been far, far ahead in ice cream (I lived near the original steve's in the 70's), to the point I stopped eating ice cream here. But between Lush and HS and Tara's and BiRite and even Naia and durian ice cream at Polly Ann's, I'd love to hear that Boston's keeping up --- but I doubt it.

                          -----
                          Manresa Restaurant
                          320 Village Lane, Los Gatos, CA 95030

                          Coi
                          373 Broadway, San Francisco, CA 94133

                          Commis
                          3859 Piedmont Avenue, Oakland, CA 94611

                          Salt House
                          2 Shaw Aly, San Francisco, CA 94105

                          Off the Grid
                          Fort Mason Center, San Francisco, CA 94123

                          14 Replies
                          1. re: bbulkow

                            Just a quibble. There are great breweries in the North East. For instance Allagash in Maine is certainly one of the best in the country and makes standard setting belgian style beer. The Ommegang brewery also does some great Belgian classics. Berkshire brewery in Western MA, the list goes on....

                            I live just around the corner from Toranado and haven't spent much time in Boston - but I can say that MA more generally has bars that are just as good (Dirty Truth, Moan & Dove both in the Pioneer valley).

                            As far as ice cream goes. We should add Humphrey Slocombe to the list (but I'm also partial to Herrell's).

                            Second the street food idea.

                            Also, Mexican (say Chilango) and Chinese (many places).

                            -----
                            Chilango
                            235 Church St, San Francisco, CA 94114

                            1. re: boris_qd

                              Thanks for the input everyone! I'm really excited for our trip and greatly appreciate the guidance.

                              1. re: boris_qd

                                I'll give a bit on the beer front, but will also admit that I'm a fool for the west coast IPA style. Good point about Alagash - I actually had one a few weeks ago at The Refuge.

                                1. re: bbulkow

                                  If you think San Francisco is ahead of the New England / Boston area in beers, I think you may need a remedial visit to Redbones in Davis Square on your next visit back! I think the two areas are equal in quality; which you prefer is a matter of style rather than quantity or quality. It's definitely worth sampling for a Boston visitor since the best brews have such distinct personality. Prohibition Ale is one of my favorites here; Ipswich Ale is one of my favorites in the Boston area.

                                  Herrell's is gone from Harvard Square - they're out in Western Mass. now - but Toscanini's still reigns in Central Square.

                                  Michael

                                  1. re: mdg

                                    But we do have great beer in SF too.

                                    In fact, let me be bold. The US has reached to point where excellent beer can be had in almost every region. It's been a long time coming, but folks, there are good local brews to be had in all corners.

                                    1. re: boris_qd

                                      Anchor Steam in SF pretty much started the whole micro-brew thing singlehandedly. I don't think anyone needs to defend NorCal in the area of beer. You could call Fritz Magtag the Alice Waters of U.S. beer given the way he changed the landscape for the better.

                                      1. re: ML8000

                                        It's a good thing he had the money to go it alone...Budwweiser and other evil "beer" companies had crushed many a small producer before.

                                        I has some excellent Anderson Valley beer this summer on the Mendocin Coast and I also had a superb clam chowder up there, as good as any I have ever had..and that includes years of my life in New England.

                                        1. re: hazelhurst

                                          Maytag's biggest contribution might be after Anchor became popular, instead of expand and go big (where he couldn't guarantee quality), he helped other micro-brewers get started so they too could make good beer. Imagine if he didn't come along.

                                          Any way, if it were crab season I'd say get some cioppino.

                                          1. re: ML8000

                                            Quite true...I met the "Pete" of "Wicked Ale" years ago in NYC Gingerman and we had a chat about what would have happened to micro-brews in the twenty years prior.(It was not a pleasant idea). Of course , some are almost as much garbage as the Big Boys..and some that were good went to hell. Par for the course.

                                            1. re: hazelhurst

                                              Pete's Wicked Ale was acquired by a big conglomerate in 1998. Anchor is still independent.

                                              1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                Yes..he had sold out and was living thru his non-compete era but was anxious to get back on board. He was vsiting his kid who was in school somewhere nearby. This was in about 2000..I thinkmaybe he wqas on his second sell out....

                                        2. re: ML8000

                                          FYI

                                          Fritz Maytag has sold the brewery to a consortium. I was at the brewery the week the transfer took place.

                                          Here's a copy of the press release.

                                          http://www.anchorbrewing.com/Anchor-B...

                                2. re: bbulkow

                                  I will have to try Lush and HS. I have stood in the long lines for Bi rite and Ici and was disappointed in the ice crystals in Bi rite and the tiny scoops at Ici of precious but faint flavors. Ici is for people who want to taste ice cream but not eat it. When I have ice cream at Toscanini's in Central Square, it is like a religious experience. I had a nectarine flavor there that made me weep with joy.

                                  I think Vermont/ New Hampshire organic milk tastes really good and has good body. Here the organic milk, tastes like regular milk. I don't think the cows are as happy here as has been reported. I miss the full round dairy flavor in the ice cream and in the mozzarella in my pizza.

                                  Innovation here is high but be sure to add at least 15-20% to your expected food budget over and above what you would pay in Boston restaurants.

                                  1. re: Tumkers

                                    I am an ice cream fiend and so when in Boston I hit several - Christina's, Toscanini's, Ranc's, Kimball Farms. Boston has a great ice cream scene with Tosc being my favorite, second Christina's, Kimball was fun but sweet and I wasn't a fan of Ranc's. Humphrey Slocombes will be different and in that way fun. I have been enjoying Mr. and Mrs. Miscellaneous lately too - their basil chococolate chip, candied violet and burnt sugar (not as burnt as Tosc) I really like. Their butterscotch sauce is great too. Given Toscanini's I don't know that I would stand in line at Bi-Rite myself. I like Bi-Rite, but it isn't better than the Boston ice cream scene.

                                    We have a lot of ice cream, many are mediocre here, some really great.

                                    I don't know - I felt the value was better here in restaurants than in Boston. But maybe I was in the wrong places.

                                    -----
                                    Mr. and Mrs. Miscellaneous
                                    699 22nd St, San Francisco, CA 94107