Pizzeria Ortica updates?
I'm thinking about trying out Pizzeria Ortica next week. It would appear no one has talked about the restaurant here in about a year, and the reviews I did find were a mixed bag. Anyone been recently? Have any insights?
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Pizzeria Ortica
650 Anton Boulevard, Costa Mesa, CA 92626
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Coming a bit late, but I just wanted to throw my experience into the fracas, for what its worth, I guess.
The bf and I had the Margherita and the Bosciaola (mushrooms, dandelion greens, pecorino cheese). I thought the tomato sauce on the margherita to be very nice and tangy. The mushrooms on the bosciaola were properly crisp, though a bit too much cheese making it rather oily. On both, I thought it could have used more basil or dandelion, as the case may be.
Onto the crust: nice little char bubbles on the crust, a little char on the bottom. Outer crust was nice and crisp. The middle was not soupy at all, and I was expecting something only to be tackled with a knife and fork from the reviews. Every single slice was picked up without falling apart.
But the best part? The espresso! Very nice.
I like the pizzeria. It's a nice place to have a civilized, yet casual meal. Not a bad happy hour, either: $3 well cocktails.
›13 Replies-
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re: OC Mutt
Porthos
Aug 11, 2010 03:36 PM
See below link to neapolitan style pizza and how it's supposed to be eaten. Written by NYMag because NYC has had a recent boom in neapolitan-style pizzerias. In the article, the author describes the wet center, how it should be eaten with fork and knife, and how if you fold it correctly, how it can still be eaten by hand.
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re: josephnl
Porthos
Aug 11, 2010 12:00 PM
Consider that it is impossible for the very thin center to be raw if the thicker edges of the crust is cooked and even charred. Even the thicker crust around the center ( the parts covered in sauce and toppings) is cooked so the "raw center" you're talking about is just very thin crust made wet by tomato sauce, but most assuredly cooked.
In the prior Ortica thread posted by OC Mutt you mentioned you weren't a fan of P. Mozza and that you could make better pizza using "TJ's pizza dough". If that is the case, then you should have a very good understanding of how pizza crust cooks and how the center could not possibly be raw if it is that thin.
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re: Porthos
I am not sure what understanding you can have if you think TJ's pizza dough is better than Mozza pizza dough. The following dough?? http://devourthis.typepad.com/.a/6a00...
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re: Porthos
Of course you are right. It's impossible for the thick edge of a pizza crust to be charred and the thin center to be raw...but the center of Ortca's pizza is so soupy that it tastes raw to me. Believe me, I get it! Many of you folks enjoy Naples style pizza, but I don't. C'est la vie!
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After reading some outstanding reviews of Pizzeria Ortica on these pages, we decided to go back again for dinner tonight. Our opinion is unchanged. This restaurant serves very mediocre pizza and their Neopolitan style (which is what we were told they served) is clearly not everyone's cup-of-tea. The crust is high and chewy around the edges (indeed, quite tasty), but centrally the crust is paper thin and very wet and soggy...not the least bit crispy. The ingredients are fine, but nothing special. As I have said previously on this site, if I am shopping at South Coast Plaza and want a pizza for lunch, I might stop by here...but, certainly I would never go out of my way to have pizza at P. Ortica!
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Pizzeria Ortica
650 Anton Boulevard, Costa Mesa, CA 92626›21 Replies-
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re: lapizzamaven
Porthos
Aug 5, 2010 11:11 AM
Kudos for Myers for staying true to his original intention and not crisping up his Neapolitan style pizza to appease mainstream pizza palates. Kudos to the first regional chinese restaurant to not serve chop suey or general tso's chicken. Kudos to the first sushi restaurant in LA to not serve sushi over hot rice and drown it in ponzu sauce. Kudos to every restaurant that stays true to its craft despite going against mainstream tastes.
My last visit to Lombardi's in NYC was the perfect example of how sad it can be when that happens. These days, the crust at Lombardi's is not charred because tourists were complaining about the "burnt" crust and not understanding that the char on the edges and bottom of the crust is what made Lombardi's coal oven pizzas special in the first place. Now the pizza at Lombardi's is unremarkable and souless. I doubt I will ever return.
If you're looking for crispy pizza crust, there are plenty of other pizzerias out there. If you want Neapolitan style pizza, this is one of the few in LA. I'm not saying its the best or even my favorite. The point is that the wet, thin, droopy center is the way Neapolitan style pizza is supposed to be and should be enjoyed for what it is.
Look up old threads on A16 in SF. When it opened, it was the first Neapolitan style pizzeria in SF. This thread is identical to prior discussions regarding the wet crust in the center. I was actually in the camp that thought the crust was too wet. Now I know I was mistaken.
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re: Porthos
I agree. P. Ortica is probably the best example of a proper Neapolitan style pizza you will find in OC. That doesn't mean it will appeal to everyone or fulfill everyone's search image of pizza. This isn't an issue unique to this restaurant or style, as shown by the endless NYC-Chicago pizza debates, and let's not talk barbecue, pastrami, bagels, or "Mexican" food. Highly regional "authentic" cuisine has been trendy in the restaurant industry for a few years and is becoming more prevalent in SoCal. Witness the various northern versus southern Thai places, regional Chinese, regional Mexican, etc. This is region-specific pizza, for better or worse.
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re: honkman
I admittedly know nothing about authentic Neopolitan pizza, but can't imagine that the pizza we were served last night at Ortica was a good example of it. The center was paper thin, soggy wet, rather slimy, tasted uncooked and more like wet raw dough than any baked pizza crust I have ever eaten...and I am from NYC and have eaten lots of pizza in my day. If this is authentic Neopolitan pizza, count me out!
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re: Porthos
Ha! Yeah, to each his own, I think especially when it comes to pizza. But even if you don't like the pizza at Ortica, it's still worth a lunch. My favorite dish there was the pappardelle with lamb, followed by the panzanella (a special) and the chocolate budino.
http://katherinespiers.tumblr.com/-
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re: Searching4Dunny
OC Mutt
Aug 10, 2010 11:02 AM
Mozza set the world on fire when it opened. It's massive success changed the game in finer dining and played perfectly with the economic times as well. To pretend Ortica is not a blatent, poorly executed attempt to capitalize on this and ride Mozza's coattails is absurd. The Ortica menu included several items that mimic Mozza, including offering things unseen and never heard of (in southern CA anyway). Guanciale, egg with a runny yoke, squash blossoms, right down to offering their own version of "Buddino." It's not a coincidence that Pizzeria Mozza got a lot of press from their Butterscotch Buddino and then Ortica offered their version And this would have been fine for OC if it had not been so mediocre. It reminds me of the movie Coming To America, where the fictional restaurant McDowells claims to not be a knock off of McDonalds because they don't have seeds on their bun.
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Pizzeria Mozza
641 N. Highland Avenue, Los Angeles, CA 90036-
re: OC Mutt
Porthos
Aug 10, 2010 12:16 PM
I had the same reaction when I first saw the menu. Mozza is a game changer and it would be foolish NOT to try and copy its success. Look at recent copy cat Ecco mentioned earlier in this thread. Much more blatant copy of Mozza's menu and much less successfully done. I agree the imitation budino at Ortica supports your point.
However, there are 2 key differences.
1. The pizza is pretty authentic neapolitan-style pizza, not the NY/Cal hybrid at Mozza
2. The fresh pastas are done very wellIf you view Ortica as a Mozza knock off, then you're correct, the pizza is not like Mozza and not crispy like Mozza. If you view it as its supposed to be, a neapolitan style pizzeria with good pasta, then you'll realize that its "absurd" to criticize Ortica's crust for not being crispy when it's not supposed to be crispy in the first place. Your main gripe about Mozza is the crust and how even 1 year after your review, its still wet. Its that way because that's how its supposed to be.
It would be like criticizing a chicago style pizza for having a thicker crust than NY style pizza or vice versa. It's not a valid critique of Ortica. Just your personal preference for type of crust.
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Well, I went to Pizzeria Ortica today. Based on most of the comments here, I was expecting something fairly dismal. I was happily surprised to find it all quite good! The pappardelle with lamb was my favorite, but I enjoyed the pizza as well - I had the guanciale. It wasn't limp at all. The interior of the crust is chewy, it's true, but it was perfectly crispy on the outside. I actually really like it that way, and, if you'll forgive me for pulling the "I lived in" card...I lived in Italy for a spell, and this pizza was exactly how it is sometimes* made there. Chewy crust and all.
*Anyone who says Italian pizza is "always" something is seriously misinformed.
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Pizzeria Ortica
650 Anton Boulevard, Costa Mesa, CA 92626›5 Replies-
re: Papuli
OCAnn
Jul 28, 2010 09:55 PM
LOL...I almost pulled the "I just got back from Italy" card; but that doesn't carry nearly the weight of your "I lived in" one. ;) I really adore their pasta: simply made, nicely done and aptly sized. Unfortunately, they're not open for lunch on weekends which is when I'm in the area, so we usually head towards Mitsuwa for ramen.
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Porthos
Jul 25, 2010 03:18 AM
Pizza Ortica is very good. The hand made pastas are excellent, especially the bolognese. The pizzas are usually very good, sometimes a bit over salted. The bruscheta with lamb is also very good. Last week, they had several dishes with fresh fruits and vegetables from Chino farms. Excellent.
Folks, this is neopolitan style pizza. The crust is supposed to be soft and limp in the middle. I too prefer the more crisp crust at Mozza but Ortica serves a different style of pizza. It's true to what it's supposed to be.
Ortica is one of my favorite mid tier restaurants in the OC. For me, I actually prefer it to my last few visits to the board favorite Marche Moderne...of course neither brings me as much joy as Pho Thanh Lich, Viendong, or Brodard, but that's another thread...
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Marche Moderne
3333 Bristol St 3001, Costa Mesa, CA 92626›11 Replies-
re: Porthos
Wow...I can't disagree with you more! I can't imagine putting Ortica in the same league with Marche Moderne which I think is not only one of the best French restaurants in OC, but probably in SoCal. To me, Ortica is ok...a place to go for pizza before the theater...ok, but not great. But...I respect your opinion...to each, his own!
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Marche Moderne
3333 Bristol St 3001, Costa Mesa, CA 92626-
re: josephnl
Porthos
Jul 26, 2010 01:39 PM
"I think is not only one of the best French restaurants in OC, but probably in SoCa"
I can't argue that Marche is one of the best French restaurants in the OC. Then again, there really aren't any to speak of in the OC. And let's be frank, OC doesn't have many good high end restaurants in general so yes, I will grant you that Marche is at the top of a very short list.
Marche's food is just a notch above standard bistro fare. To call it the best french restaurant in SoCal is a bit much considering the likes of Melisse and Providence.
The reason I prefer Ortica to Marche is that I can get better french food in LA, but I can't get better Neopolitan pizza in LA. (even though I prefer the crust and pizza at P.Mozza). Meyers has stayed true to the Neopolitan style crust despite misunderstandings that the crust is undercooked or that it should be crispy. Ortica offers a style of pizza that isn't very common in SoCal and that's why I'm a fan. The handmade pastas and seasonal offerings from Chino Farms makes it that much more enjoyable to return to.
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re: Porthos
hnsbmg
Jul 26, 2010 01:57 PM
Do you really mean their pastas are "handmade" -- i.e., stretched by hand, in the style of Italian grandmothers, using a long Italian rolling pin? Or are they house-made but rolled -- not stretched -- by machine? The difference is that handmade pasta has a rough, uneven surface with an interesting texture that's great for trapping bits of sauce.
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re: Porthos
May I suggest that the next time you go to Marche, you call ahead and request a tasting menu. I think you will be amazed at what they can do...clearly in the same league as Melisse. We celebrated a special occasion a few weeks ago at MM with a special tasting menu...it was amazing, from Siberian osetra caviar, to fresh summer truffles from Umbria, to unbelievably delicious fois gras served with fresh mulberries...it was over the top! All of us at the dinner had celebrated a special occasion two years ago at Le Bernardin in New York (three Michelin stars, four NY Times stars) and we all agreed that the tasting dinner served to us at MM was better. Please...do try to have a tasting menu at MM...I think you will change your mind.
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re: josephnl
Porthos
Jul 26, 2010 03:14 PM
I've been to Marche about 5 times. Aside from the special Alsacian menu last year, I have found the food to be solid but nothing special.
Your point about you finding MM better than Le Bernardin is the perfect example. I've been to Le Bernardin. The food is executed at a very high level and is very cerebral. You have to have the tasting menu to fully appreciate Ripert's skill. I have no doubt that you found your meal more enjoyable at MM than at Le Bernardin. However, that is very different from saying MM is a better restaurant than Le Bernardin or that most people would agree with you. I did not find Marche's menu to be anywhere in the same league. Perhaps with their tasting menu, they can elevate their cuisine by several miles, but I'm a bit skeptical.
So when you say Marche and Ortica is not in the same league, you mean Marche's Carte Blanch tasting menu vs the every day menu at Ortica. It's not really a fair comparison. For me the every day menu at both places are consistent with good mid tier restaurants...one being french bistro, one being italian pizzeria/osteria. I prefer the menu at Ortica because it's larger with more options that appeal to me when The Hunger strikes.
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re: Porthos
We both agree and disagree. I totally agree with you that without a doubt, Le Bernardin is a far superior restaurant than is MM. What I said was that we all felt that the tasting menu we were served at MM two weeks ago, was better than the one we were served at LeB. We certainly had a better time at MM than we did at LeB.
I disagree with you that the "normal" food served at Ortica is better than that served at MM. Indeed, I strongly disagree...but that is a matter of personal opinion and your opinion is, of course, as valid as anyones.
Although I would not even venture to compare Florent Marneau to Eric Ripert, I think that if you at some point were to give Florent the opportunity to serve you a tasting menu, I do think you will be very impressed with what he can do. I think he is an extraordinary chef!
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re: Nicole
I honestly don't know if they will do one any night, but I suspect they will. All I know is that we spoke to Amelia in advance, and told her that we wanted to celebrate a special occasion with 2 guests (a party of 4), and that we wanted it to be memorable. Our guests were very sophisticated NYC foodies who eat at the best places in NYC. We were all blown away by the meal that Amelia and Florent served us. It was one of the best meals that any of us have ever experienced (and we've all eaten at the best in the US and in Paris!). I am quite sure that MM will serve a tasting menu to anyone who requests it in advance. We gave them carte blanche with food and wine, so our meal was quite expensive, but not overly so for what we had. Food with wonderful wine pairing was $225 pp, and we thought that this was very fair for what we had. I'm quite sure that if you talk with Amelia, she will be able to arrange a wonderful meal for you, and will do it within a reasonable budget!
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If all you want is pizza, it's pretty much ok...hit or miss. Pizza e Vino In Rancho Santa Marg is at least as good for pizza. A newer place that has overall better Italian food, and a few excellent pizza choices is Il Barone in Newport. The owner/chef was the chef at Antonello in South Coast Plaza for many years, and his new small place is putting out pretty delicious Italian food, a a few delicious pizza choices. Overall, I would much prefer Il Barone, to Ortica.
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Went about three months ago. Here's the recap:
farro con frutti di mare – superb
insalata tricolore – excellent
lamb saddle – outstanding
pizze salsiccia – overly wet, limp yet ok
pizze guanciale – good flavors, again limp, unremarkable
service - greatMy overall lukewarm experience did not beg for a return visit. I went for the pizza. Both shots landed off the fairway.
Hmmh? I sense a trend, an unfortunate one at that.
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OCAnn
Jul 24, 2010 08:39 PM
Mr OCAnn had pizza (which I thought was okay), I truly enjoyed my hand-made pasta dish which was sized to Italian standards (not US). While good, there are other restaurants in the area that I prefer.
Go and form your own opinion and let us know how it went. =)
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I intended to go two weeks ago but found they were closed on Sunday..Tried a VPN certified pizza restaurant in Santa Margherita, Pizza e Vino. Tried 4 pies. The first 2 were excellent. Wonderfully crisp and chewy crusts and tasty toppings. The grilled Mex shrimp pie was our favorite. Not a very "wet" pie for fresh mozz but the 2nd 2 pies' crusts were undercooked and ruined the experience. Kinda youngish people prepping and "manning" the oven. I'd make it clear you expect a properly baked crust to ensure a satisfying experience.
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Professor Salt
Jul 24, 2010 06:57 PM
The last time I went was maybe three months ago. They make a very good crust - properly charred, nicely salted. Anything with tomato sauce - soupy as hell. The crushed tomato "sauce" is way too watery and it doesn't spend enough time in the blazing hot oven to evaporate the water off.
My rec - stick to the ones not sauced with tomato, and you'll probably be ok. Their desserts were pretty solid. Don't remember specifics of which desserts we chose (my family had two), but we liked them both very much.
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OC Mutt
Jul 24, 2010 06:40 PM
Here is a thread I started. I have not been back but a friend of mine who was there the night I wrote the review about has been forced back twice for work functions and says it's still mediocre.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6220...›2 Replies
