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Jul 24, 2010 11:59 AM

WHY no ziti in the Western US?

I've been aware of this geographical disparity but realized I have no idea why it is so. It doesn't seem to be like the difference between a hero, a grinder, and a hoagie. If I'm understanding it correctly, ziti is essentially smooth penne with flat cut ends. Are there other differences............ I mean beside the fact that your grandmother made baked ZITI, not baked smooth penne?

Mostly, I'd like to know HOW something so much a part of family dining in the East could have totally disappeared West of the whatever divide. I've never seen Ziti in the pasta aisle at any major market in SoCal............... though I'm sure I'd probably find it a someplace like Claro's Italian market.

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  1. "I've never seen Ziti in the pasta aisle at any major market in SoCal............... "


    Really? I know for a fact that Barilla (in that ubiquitous blue box) makes ziti pasta. And Barilla is in just about every major supermarket chain in SoCal (Ralphs, Vons, Pavilions, etc.).

    Are you talking about something else? Fresh ziti, maybe? Even that's pretty easy to find.

    1. I'm prolly missing some other distinction, but having grown up on the east coast for a while, and living mostly in Chicago, with a few years here and there in the southwest, I think ziti is called either penne or mostaccioli once you cross the Mississippi. Baked Mostacioli is on a lot of menus.

      1 Reply
      1. re: gordeaux

        i don't know about the geographic dividing line, but indeed mostaccioli = mezze penne, but ziti is something else -- according to this handy dandy chart:

        you gotta love the italians!

        1. Ziti in Chicago (and maybe elsewhere west) are mostaccioli. In southern Italy, mostaccioli can also refer to a honey-sweetened Christmas cookie, whose shape and flavor vary locally. Penne are neither ziti nor mostaccioli. Back in the day, the now-common, short ziti used to be called mezzani or mezza (half) ziti, since the base form was a 12' long narrow tube, which my grandmother would break in two by hand. Some large and traditional Italian markets still sell these longer ziti. Ziti are not rigatoni, either, since they are not grooved (rigati) but smooth (lisci), although they can share the same dimensions. The chart linked to below is from a UK source and only complicates matter for US buyers. Hope this can help clear up a delightful mess.

          4 Replies
          1. re: bob96

            but doesn't the UK chart deal with the italian names? how does that complicate matters -- it should resolve them (unless it is incorrect)?

            1. re: alkapal

              Only meant that the plethora of synonyms it offers can confuse an even more confusing domestic lexicon, which changes over time: for me, and for many of my generation I suppose, fusilli were always the long fusilli col buco (hole) rather than the short form shown here and so common today. Spaghetti is often called vermicelli in Naples, but anyone assuming they're the same in the US would be misled. Dat's all.

            2. re: bob96

              Hey bob96. I think I wish I had met your grandmother. Did she make fusilli with a ferretto?

              Mostaccioli, the cookies, are found in Rome too and are wonderful. The name derives from "mosto," grape must, which was used as a sweetener even in antiquity and is still the basis of traditional sweet-and-sour dishes.

              In "Encyclopedia of Pasta" mostaccioli are synonymous with penne (i.e., bias cut), and that is what I recall from the US (East coast). Ziti (also known as zite in southern Italy) are tubular and cut straight across. I believe the industrially made ones are narrower than penne. They are of Sicilian origin (though found throughout the south) and, as you say, were originally long. The name means "grooms" or, for zite, "brides", and they used to be served at weddings. (How "zita," bride relates to "zitella," old maid, would be a tangent onto which I'm not going to venture.)

              Pasta names are wildly variable from place to place (way below the regional level), so it's not surprising that different manufacturers and different areas of the US display a certain inconsistency or fluidity of terminology.

              1. re: mbfant

                Nonna only made simple tagliatelle--even though she was born in Calabria the only fusilli we had were Ronzoni's, in the era before mass imports like DeCecco. The pasta rolled around a slim iron rod, or ferretto, is still common in Calabria (called, variously, fileja, fusilli, or maccaruni 'a casa, in my encounters, and always served with a ragu) and the south in general. I'm now totally confused about the penne/ziti/mostaccioli connection, but in most of the US today, ziti are always straight cut, narrow tubes about 3" long. Some imported, "artisanal" pasta brands may use different names, though, for this cut. Whatever it's called, I love it.

            3. I do think penne and ziti are pretty much the same thing. If there is a difference it may be that ziti is cut flat on the ends and penne is cut on the diagonal. I may need to recheck the shelves if ipse's right, but I just don't recall seeing the word ziti on pasta packages here.

              On the other hand, if you look at the link below (from the National Pasta Association) what they show as 'ziti' is much longer and thinner than penne, and I'm pretty positive I don't see what's in that picture on market shelves here. And.............. it doesn't look like what my converted-Italian Aunt used to make.


              15 Replies
              1. re: Midlife

                Penne translates as quills or feathers, and refers to the angle- cut ends that do resemble the ends of old quill pens. The ziti image you show might refer to the long form ziti, scarce on supermarket shelves.

                1. re: Midlife

                  DeCecco makes ziti too, they have it at Gelsons.

                  1. re: BubblyOne

                    I've honestly never seen anything with the name 'ziti' on it in a regular market that I can recall, but there's a Gelson's near me I'll check next time I'm there. Funny, but DeCecco's website lists ziti but NOT mostaccioli.

                    Now................... the next question would be whether there's any real difference between baked ziti, baked mostaccioli, and baked penne.

                    1. re: Midlife

                      Pasta that is ribbed definitely has a different texture than smooth, and holds up differently.

                      1. re: coll

                        I agree with you, coll, on pasta with lines definitely having a different texture than pasta with no lines - plus, it seems to hold the sauce better. Prince Pasta makes "ziti with lines", but I've just started using penne, as I prefer the smaller noodle. I still call it baked ziti, however. :-)

                        And then there's the dreaded Noodleous Doubleous: (Although cooking the pasta for 18 minutes is absolute sacrilege!)

                        1. re: LindaWhit

                          Thanks for that one, Linda! It puts some of CH's scientific pissing contests into perspective.

                          1. re: greygarious

                            LOL! I like to think that Sam would have enjoyed that experiment for the fun of it. :-)

                            1. re: LindaWhit

                              I like to use pipette for pasta carbonara, because I put frozen peas in at the end and most of them wind up cupped in the pasta like a jai-alai cesta and pelota. Maybe a study of the percentage is in order.....

                              1. re: greygarious

                                Campanelle pasta does the same thing with peas :-).

                                1. re: greygarious

                                  Chula!! Have not been to a game in many years.!

                            2. re: LindaWhit

                              Hey Linda- I think you are on to something with the dish called "baked ziti". I'm wondering if it isn't just now used as a generic name by some for that type of casserole. I've made/had many a baked ziti, with pasta other than ziti here in CA.

                              1. re: BubblyOne

                                Aha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you're probably right, but then the question is.....................

                                Is it REALLY baked ziti if it's not made with ziti?????

                                I'm not sure I want to start that one.

                                  1. re: BubblyOne

                                    Is NOTHING sacred any more??? :o)))))

                                    1. re: Midlife

                                      LOL..I see you are in OC, it's at the Gelsons Newport and Dana Point.