"In and out" - discarding the vermouth when making a martini?

[BobB]

I was in a bar in London recently (in a decent restaurant on Charlotte St) and ordered a Hendricks martini. The barman made it with great care - lots of ice, no rushing, generous pour - but took one step that quite startled me: he added the vermouth to the mixing glass full of ice, let it sit a minute, then POURED IT DOWN THE DRAIN before adding the gin and straining the result into a serving glass.

I blinked a bit didn't question him, and it was tasty and cold on a hot day, so I forgot about it until I was just reading a post a couple of minutes ago in which someone mentioned this technique and called it an "in and out," at least when done with vodka instead of gin.

I can understand someone wanting just a hint of vermouth in a martini (I prefer more, but de gustibus), but this strikes me as a rather wasteful way to get that result.

Is this a known variation on this side of the Atlantic?

[StriperGuy]

There are essentially an infinite number of ways to minimize the amount of vermouth in a dry martini.

This was THE way a martini was made from more or less the middle of the last century until just a few years ago.

Along with many of the associated jokes mentioned below, there were even special eye droppers and misters for applying the requisite vanishingly small amount of vermouth.

[c oliver]

I have one of those misters :( Head hanging in shame. Keep thinking I'm going to find some use for it.

[EvergreenDan]

Good point, although my family has always used about 1:5 or more vermouth. As we aged, we started using more vermouth to keep the drinks from being too strong. My dad, in his last years, had a weak Martini with more vermouth than gin, and lots of ice. His trick was using a vermouth that he liked the taste of -- Boissiere. And a good olive.

I think there has been quite a lot of variation in how much Vermouth was used -- at least since I started drinking them in about 1978 or so. Embrace diverse tastes.

[thew]

" Embrace diverse tastes."

or rather find what you like, and don't let anyone tell your you're doing it wrong

[MGZ]

"Embrace diverse tastes."

Funny how a phrase can be simultaneously appreciated by people who take different meanings from it. I lauded it as "sample different flavors." Yet, it was also embraced as "tolerate other's preferences."

Ultimately, its being inherently subject to interpretation makes me like the phrase even more!

[BobB]

I like it the other way around, too - "Taste diverse embraces."

[MGZ]

Cheers! We all bring our own notions, don't we?

[porker]

Or in a utopian world, "Diverse tastes embrace!"

[cookingasshole]

I have done this for years. It is perfect.

[invinotheresverde]

A perfect glass of gin, yes.

[Soybomb]

As others have said, its fairly common. The popular notion seems to be that vermouth is bad in any appreciable quantity. I don't know why people don't just put in a few drops in the first place if thats all the want. Often the same crowd will be having vodka martinis that essentially amount to vodka straight up with an olive garnish, but they want to be seen drinking a martini so they order the bland tasting drink that passes for a cocktail today.

Drink what you like and enjoy but I think the practice of putting it in to pour it out is silly.

[stanmsak]

The "rinse" is a common approach on both sides of the Atlantic as far as I know. I've come across it with vermouth for martinis. I've also, as noted, seen it with other aromatic liqueurs, particularly anise flavored liqueurs. For some, the flavor left behind is subtle detectable, for others, maybe not so much. My preference, though, for a martini to be a martini is to have vermouth in the mix. Otherwise, I'll just order a Bombay up!

[thew]

it's common.

however i think the ever increasing dryness in martinis has gone way too far.

[c oliver]

Me too. I've read that they used to be 50/50 and some places are going back to that.

[alanbarnes]

>>"Is this a known variation on this side of the Atlantic?"<<

Very much so. It's the driest possible real martini (without the vermouth, it would just be a glass of gin). Of course, whether it's a **good** martini is another question entirely...

[c oliver]

+1. I stopped doing it cause I wasn't effecting the taste of the drink. It was an affectation and Iloved it when guests ooh'd and ahh'd but IMO it wasn't a good martini.

[penthouse pup]

One person's "affectation" is another person's preference. I've been making and drinking martinis in this way for thirty years, and IMO, it makes for an excellent martini, where the scent and the flavor of vermouth comes through (I use regular Bombay and Boissart)...and yes, I have had them made in the other manner, and yes, I have enjoyed them when offered elsewhere (or in a bar) but my preference is for the more subtle mix...

[c oliver]

Well, we're in agreement. Beauty's in the eye of the beholder.

[BobB]

I can understand liking just a hint of vermouth in the drink - what I do not understand is this particular method of getting that small amount.

If the amount of vermouth you prefer to end up with is, say, 10ml, it makes absolutely no difference to the ultimate drink whether you add just the 10ml to begin with or add 100ml and discard 90. The resulting mix in your glass is EXACTLY the same proportion of gin and vermouth. The only other variables are water and temperature, both of which are factors you can control independently. And, of course, whether or not you like your martini with orange bitters, as I do.

But adding more vermouth than you want to end up with, then discarding some of it, strikes me as pure theater. Not that that's a bad thing per se - I'm a great theater fan - but I do hate to see perfectly good vermouth go to waste.

[alanbarnes]

To each his (or her) own. What's Boissart?

[penthouse pup]

Mea culpa--Boissiere is what I meant (the vermouth brand.) About proportions--I have bar books going back to the 1930's and yes, the amount of vermouth was generally far greater but still: if Bunuel was drinking them the way he described it, that means it goes back a lot further than a lot of people might think: at least fifty years,maybe more...and my personal inclination going back more than 30 years is not an indication that it's some kind of new fad...

Anyway, it's nice to see a little life on this board!

[alanbarnes]

No doubt there's a well-established tradition of the very, very, very dry martini. Winston Churchill - whose day was a bit before Luis Buñuel's - advocated stirring gin over ice while glancing at a bottle of vermouth.

It would be fairer to say that using the classic proportions is "some kind of new fad." For most of my adult life, finding a martini with a discernible amount of vermouth was a challenge. Which was probably a good thing, since most dry vermouth is of middling quality, unenhanced by poor storage.

Lately, though, some folks have been making better vermouth, and bartenders who take their craft seriously have been taking better care of the vermouth they have. I've started using Vya vermouth and my ratios have crept up as high as 3:1; inadvisable with a bottle of LeJon that was opened some time last year.

[porker]

First, to the OP; I'm not a true martini officianado, but I have had a running interest in this drink on and off for maybe 25 years. The "in and out" is just one idiosyncrony of the genre, along with the stirred vs shaken debate, with or without ice war, and olive or twist argument. Quite common.
BTW I dislike calling any drink under the sun a "Martini" simply 'cause its served in a cocktail glass (lychee martini, chocolate martini, etc etc). I also loathe the fact that many many bartenders assume I want vodka in my martini...SHEEEZ.

alanbarnes, theres a drier martini than the in and out. I remember Hawkeye Pierce on M*A*S*H describe his version:
"You pour six jiggers of gin and drink it while staring at a picture of Lorenzo Schwartz, the inventor of vermouth"

[thew]

without ice? how does it get chilled?

[alanbarnes]

Of course, the brave (fictional) men of the 4077 were drinking stuff straight from the still (no aromatics), and, if I recall, didn't have a means of chilling their beverages. If you're in a combat zone, maybe you can claim a dispensation to call straight warm grain neutral spirits in a cocktail glass a "martini." Any port (or vodka) in a storm.

But the fact of the matter is that the cocktail is well-defined as including vermouth. Opinions to the contrary (including Churchill's, of which the scene you mention is a blatant rip-off) are duly noted. That doesn't make 'em right.

[penthouse pup]

I don't follow what the "aghast" concern might be: mixing vermouth with ice and pouring it off before adding gin is a well established method, particularly if one wants the impression rather than the overriding taste of vermouth. In his autobiography, the great film director, Luis Bunuel, describes his recipe for a perfect martini with this exact approach, and that book was published a while back, reflecting an even longer familiarity with this method. I use about a capful of vermouth, poured into the shaker, then stir the ice for about fifty revolutions--pour out the liquid, add the gin, and stir again for another fifty. The result is a smooth drink...Try it.

[jgg13]

There's not enough vermouth in there, I don't want to try it.

[invinotheresverde]

Agreed. A glass of gin does not a martini make.

[yarm]

re: Buñuel:

When film makers and authors will take my advice on writing and directing, then I will take their advice on drink making.

http://cocktailvirgin.blogspot.com/

[penthouse pup]

Well, I'm an author (fiction and non-fiction), so I'd be glad to take any advice you feel worth rendering (emoticom: smile).

[yarm]

it's the thread that holds them from having to order a large glass of gin or vodka.

I have never seen this with vermouth, but I have seen rinses done with flavorful ingredients like absinthe and green Chartreuse.

[jgg13]

I've seen this a lot lately, particularly on tv shows (e.g. alton brown)

[Up With Olives]

I know of someone who was taught this as the proper method in bartending school. In the 1970s.

[invinotheresverde]

Don't even get me started on bartending "school"...

[kpaumer]

"Waste not, want not"! My mother used to swirl and pour the vermouth back into the bottle, needless to say the same bottle of vermouth has sat on her bar for YEARS! At 73, she now drinks red wine (for her health), wink, wink, nod ,nod:-)

[c oliver]

I used to do that but don't anymore because I've grown to like more vermouth. It only took a tiny bit. I would pour in one glass, swirl around up the side of the glass, dump the vermouth (maybe 1/2t) and put the glass in the freezer. I decided all that was just too precious and trying to make too strong a point for a "very dry" martini.