Braising temperatures

[Hank Hanover]

I have heard that you are supposed to braise at a simmer and avoid boiling the liquid which would be stewing.

A simmer is around 190 degrees or so.

Many of the braising recipes I find have you put your dutch oven in the oven at 300- 350 degrees. Isn't that going to make the liquid boil?

Wouldn't 250 - 275 be better? Even at that, wouldn't it still boil?

Does anyone find a real difference in results and taste between stewing and braising?

One difference would be having to reduce a lot more liquid for a sauce.

[Phurstluv]

Usually when braising the pot is covered, so although at 300-350, it's over the boiling point, the heat is more uniform, spread all around the pot, and the pot keeps the liquid in, therefore, basting the dish from on top. If you peek open the lid, when adding more ingredients for instance, it is usually not boiling furiously, it is simmering on the inside.

You can certainly reduce the heat but it will take more time, basically, to break down the meat's connective tissues, that render a tough cut more tender. I usually find it to be six to one, half dozen to another.

[John E.]

Actually, 350 on the stove top would be a full, rapid boil, but in the oven it would be just barely simmering. Air is much less efficient at conducting heat than contact with a stovetop electric heating element or a gas flame.

[greygarious]

Not so sure about that - last month when I was finished using the oven I put a 3qt pan of cold water into it, thinking I'd use the residual heat in the turned-off oven to jumpstart the water for cooking some pasta. When I took it out, it was boiling. I THINK the oven started out at 375 but was turned off at that point. Next time I'll pay more attention to temp and time. In any case, I was proud of myself for saving energy :-)

[paulj]

A covered DO in the oven will get hotter than an uncovered one. Uncovered looses heat via evaporation. I've noticed that when I lift the lid, the liquid is often bubbling, which quickly subsides.

Harold McGee has claimed that oven braising should be uncovered, so the liquid does not rise to the boiling point. This is supposed to produce a more tender meat.

I think there are two issues with 'boiling':
- some items might cook better at (say) 200F than at 212.
- vigorous boiling creates turbulence, breaking up delicate foods, and producing a cloudy broth. This is applicable more to stocks the braises.

What makes me somewhat skeptical of McGee's claim that sub-boiling is the better braising temperature, is my experience with pressure cookers. I can get equivalent tenderness with temperatures well above boiling.

While it may depend some on the pot, I think 300 is a better braising temperature than 350.

To me the difference between braising and stewing has less to do with the temperature, and more with the amount of liquid. Stewing has plenty of liquid; braising just enough to keep the meat from getting dry. At least with bigger pieces of meat, braising only comes part way up. That means part of the meat is exposed to hot air, and can brown. It can be turned and basted to keep it moist, but I still expect color. In contrast in a stew, the meat stays well submerged. Color also develops in a covered braise when cooking liquid gets deposited on the sides and lid of the pot, and browns.

[scubadoo97]

I usually go with 300* in a heavy covered DO. Do not let it go much past fork tender and per McGee let it cool in the braising liquid. Works for me.

[paulj]

Here's a thread on McGee on Braising

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6680...

[Phurstluv]

The basic definition of braise is to cook, tightly covered. Since the amount of liquid is smaller than a stew, if uncovered, it would evaporate faster, and one would have to keep adding liquid to the dish. Think of it when you roast a large bird, you have to keep replenishing the liquid on the bottom of the pan in order not to burn the vegetables that are there as a mirepoix. And, that would not maintain oven temp and make the final dish take even longer to cook. And what about the baste factor that happens when the dish is covered? And most braises call for browning the meat first anyway, I can't imagine how a partially submerged chuck roast, for instance, would flavor the liquid at all if only about a third to half of it was browned.

[paulj]

As to flavoring the liquid as the meat cooks, I turn the meat several times during cooking. I also tend to scrape down the sides. In addition browning occurs that the surface of the cooking liquid.

My gut sense is that a lot more color, and hence flavor, develops during cooking than in the initial browning. I realize that chefs and cookbooks place a lot of emphasis on that initial browning. But since that browning can produce a lot of spatter, and take a lot of time, I often skip it, or cut it short.

The other day I braised a pork 'long-cut' foot, that is whole foot plus shank end. The foot end was cut loose, but otherwise it was whole. I put it in 10" aluminum dutch oven, added some cutup onion, a dried chile, salt,pepper, and a couple of cups of water. Then cooked it about 3hrs at 350-300, I inverted a small cast iron skillet over the lid to act as a weight, to improve the seal of lid. I also checked it several times, and turned the meat. Trying to sear this awkward cut of meat before cooking would have been a pain, and (I think) would not have added significant flavor.

Usually I cook pig feet (and cow feet) in lots of water because of all the gelatin rich stock they produce, but this braising with a small amount of water is a nice alternative. The other pot I use for this purpose is a Chinese sand pot - clay that is glazed on the inside.

The result was very tender pork, less than a cup of juices with lots of gelatin, and lots of tender pork skin. Because of the moist heat the skin was not crisp, but certainly did not lack in color or flavor.

[Phurstluv]

Great, sounds like that method worked well for you. For the rest of us, I think the traditional method of braising, searing or browning first, then braising with the lid on, at about 300+, works for us.

[Hank Hanover]

I have had some time to think about this. If simmering is at 190 degrees F or so, the operative term is below a boil. Lid on or not, if you truly want to braise you need to put it in the oven at 200 degrees F or so.

I usually do it at 300 degrees but that is going to make the braising liquid boil and consequently you are going to be stewing except that the liquid won't cover the meat.

Unfortunately, if I want to braise at 200 degrees F, I am going to have to be comfortable with braising for 5 - 6 hours or maybe even longer.

[chowser]

I braise in my crockpot and it's about 190. It takes all day but the connective tissues break down. The biggest problem w/ it is lack of evaporation so you need to lesson the liquid, which means the sauce isn't as flavorful, or put a towel below the lid which increases the cooking time because you don't get the seal. If I have time, I braise at 225 in the oven.

[Hank Hanover]

The temperatures vary with brand too. For instance, I was shocked to figure out that my rival crockpot simmers at 209 degree F or at least that is the stated goal on Rivals web site and in their manual. The difference between high and low on Rivals is how long they take to get to 209 degrees. That is very different from some other brands.

[paulj]

The early simple models just had few turns of resistance wire around the outside of the inner pot. No thermostats or other fancy controls. Slow cooking resulted the combination of low power, ceramic pot, and heavy glass lid.

[Hank Hanover]

This is a brand new programmable 6 qt model. http://www.amazon.com/Crockpot-SCVP600-SS-Smart-Pot-Programmable-Stainless/dp/B000FIP91W/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1280885823&sr=8-3

In fact, I just posted a thread asking people to tell me the brand of their slow cooker and what temperature ranges they cook at.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/7251...

[LindaWhit]

All slow cookers manufactured within the last 12 years or so have increased the temps at which they cook. From the Hartford Courant some time in 2000 (no link, but I saved the article):
~~~~~~~~~
Slow Cookers Change

A reader e-mailed the Food desk to comment on a recipe story about crock-pots -- or slow cookers, as they are now called -- that appeared in the Food section last Wednesday. This man finds that his new crock-pot, a 6-quart Hamilton Beach model, takes less time to cook than his original cooker by the same company.

Through some research, he found that his old model had a temperature setting of 140 degrees for low. The new model is 180 degrees at low. He says food reaches the boiling point in about 4 to 5 hours.

A call to Hamilton Beach Proctor-Silex in Glen Allen, VA., confirmed that the new pots have a higher temperature on low. The change was made to prevent any food contamination and ensure that foods cook to the proper temperature.

Crock-pot cooks should consult the manual that accompanies the cooker and adjust recipes they find elsewhere accordingly. As our e-mailer points out, he has found that a 4-pound pot roast, cooked in his new pot, "is over-done after six hours on low." He compared his experience with the recipe for flank steak with gravy, published in the crock-pot story, which listed cooking times as 8 to 10 hours on "low." This recipe was taken from an older crock-pot cookbook, whose recipes were developed for the older models.
~~~~~~~~~
"Food contamination" - don't believe there was any poisoning issues with the older crockpots, and yet they were changed by the manufacturers because of fear of potential legal issues, I believe.

[chowser]

I've measured mine. I was playing with the idea of making perfect hard boiled eggs in it, since the temperature is controlled, and a lower heat. The previous crockpot I had was way too hot and, even on warm, burned everything. I never start anything on cold in the crock pot, always sear and start it on the stove, once it comes to temperature, then transfer it all over. It takes the guesswork on how long it'll come to temperature, plus I don't think you can get the same results w/out first searing and sauteeing the vegetables.

[Hank Hanover]

Got that right!

[dave_c]

My MIL cooks her pot roast in the oven 350F at 1 hour per pound of meat. I, using her recipe, braise at 275F at an hour per pound with the thought that braising should be a simmer.

If you were to eat the meat only, I'd say the 275F turns out better (better texture and more unctuous), but when you add the pot juices, potatoes and vegetable the difference between the two is really unnoticeable.

[Hank Hanover]

When I add the vegetables to the pot for the last hour, I raise the temperature up to 350. The onions go in with the meat. Often, I roast the carrots and potatoes in the oven not in the pot.

[dave_c]

My approach is similar.
The initial cooking uses a mirepoix. I take the meat out (to rest) and add the rest of the veggies - potatoes and carrots. Most of the time I just finish cooking off the veg on the stove top which allows for the pot juices to reduce.

Roasting the carrots and potatoes, before adding to the meat is a great idea!

[Hank Hanover]

Just keep in mind that the roasted veggies texture isn't the same as having them stew or braise in the pot.