SHO or Gotham?

[Rina_O]

Hi all,

Headed to the city this weeked. Have reservations already at Momofuku Ko on Friday and Marea on Saturday. We have one more night (tomorrow) and reservations at both SHO Shaun Hergatt and Gotham Bar and Grill. Haven't been to either. Obviously very different restaurants. Which one would you go to?

Thanks!
Rina

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Gotham Bar and Grill
12 East 12th Street, New York, NY 10003

Momofuku Ko
163 1st Ave, New York, NY 10003

Marea
240 Central Park South, New York, NY 10019

SHO Shaun Hergatt
40 Broad St, New York, NY 10004

[silverlainy]

I had the SHO lunch prix fixe and we were really impressed with the quality for a mere $30. Would definitely recommend their food as dinner should be even better. My one experience at Gotham was pretty disappointing - extremely dry fish. (Two people ordered it and had it dry) The appetizers were fine but no one in our group of 4 was impressed with the meal.

[Rina_O]

And we'll definitely stop by Keens for a drink! This trip is pretty much all about food and bar-hopping. Last time we were in NY, I was pregnant and didn't get to enjoy myself nearly as much as I wanted so now I have to make up for it.

[Dave Feldman]

If you want a real NY experience, stop by the bar at Keens at lunch and have the prime rib hash. You'll be happy.

[Rina_O]

Thanks guys. I think we're going to do the 9:45 EMP reservation. Back in the day I wouldn't have even hesitated, but we have a 17 month old (who we're leaving at home with grandparents) so we eat and go to sleep so much earlier now! But I hate to miss it, sounds like the consensus best restaurant in the city right now. And it sounds a bit less stuffy than I thought it would be, which is nice. We may show up a bit early and see if they'll seat us, that tends to work pretty often. Looking forward to being back in the city!

[gutsofsteel]

And worst case scenario....they have a nice bar to wait at. Enjoy and report back!

[rrems]

Though for food I would recommend SHO over Gotham hands down, I think EMP is more in line with the ambiance you are looking for, and you can't beat the food.

[uwsister]

Have not been to SHO yet but I found Gotham to be average at best. Food wasn't bad, but not memorable in the least.

I'm another one who loves EMP, late res sucks but it is the best restaurant in NYC at this moment, IMO.

[Littleman]

I love Gotham Bar and Grill. I think it's fine and even if a little tired it still hums like a 10 penny nail.

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Gotham Bar and Grill
12 East 12th Street, New York, NY 10003

[chewbie]

I would vote SHO given the alternative. Agree with others that if you're looking for a true NY restaurant experience, then maybe this isn't it. But based purely on food, this would be my pick as I had a wonderful meal there.

[Rina_O]

What would you consider a true NY restaurant experience then, where the food is equally good?

[gutsofsteel]

I really think everybody defines that differently. For me, Keens is what I love in this category. It's one of the oldest restaurants in NYC, it's full of character, the food is good. Do a search here on CH and you'll find lots of posts about it. It's a wonderful place.

I think Craft and Hearth are New York-y places too, in their way.

What type of cuisine are you interested, what price range (including tax, service, and booze), and what about your wine/beer/cocktails preferences?

I'm not sure "where the food is equally good" is an objective question. The food at SHO is very fancy, and I found it completely soul-less. Do you want a fancy meal in a very upscale environment? Because Hearth is not that. Craft is a bit more like that, but not really fancy. Keens is definitely not fancy, but it is classic NY.

Cafe Boulud is pretty fancy, but I'm not sure I'd call it a "true NY experience" other than it caters to a quite upscale NY crowd and is iconic in that particular regard.

[Rina_O]

I don't think we need fancy, but aren't against it. I lived in NY in the late 90s and back then, Gramercy Tavern and Union Square Cafe seemed very New York, but current. That type of food is kind of what I have in mind, which SHO probably is not. Although I'm probably looking more for a particular type of atmosphere, so cuisine is less important. Don't know if I'd do a steakhouse, as we live in Texas and we have more great steakhouses than we know what to do with. More than anything, I want the atmosphere, the people, the vibe in general to feel like New York. I'm not sure if it's possible to be iconic and current at the same time...if so I guess that's what I'm looking for ideally.

Was looking at opentable, and I can get Veritas or Craft at a reasonable time. Another option is lounge seating at Daniel (never been) and a 9:45 reservation at EMP (somehow that extra 15 minutes makes it seem a little more doable.)

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Gramercy Tavern
42 E 20th St, New York, NY 10003

Veritas
43 East 20th St., New York, NY 10003

[RGR]

If you've never been to EMP and would be comfortable with 9:45, I'd say grab it! It's our #1 favorite restaurant in NYC.

However, if you prefer an earlier time, the food at Veritas is sensational! It also has one of the most extraordinary wine lists in the city. Service is excellent and I think the stylized minimalist decor has a very NY feel.

Veritas photos here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11863391...

[gutsofsteel]

I totally get it. Forget Daniel - it is a real disappointment relative to its reputation, and it couldn't be further from the vibe you are after. And I do not like the lounge seating there at all anyway. And the food is just not firing on all cylinders there...

If you can tolerate the 9:45 time, go to EMP. It's the best restaurant in NYC and it's a beautiful room, delightful service. It's quite upscale, but they manage to balance that with extremely comfortable service and a relaxed, pampered atmosphere. It's lovely and really festive feeling. And the food is very good.

If not, I'd recommend Craft over Veritas. I love the casually elegant feel of the room at Craft, the generously sized and spaced tables, and the cuisine is what you're more or less talking about in your post just above. And it has a very nice vibe and pleasant, competent service. Their braised meats, and vegetable preparations are always excellent. And many seasonal specials abound, based on what's fresh in the market.

So....EMP if you can do the hour, and if not...Craft. You can't go wrong at either. Also neither of them is too loud, but they are certainly not hushed and both of them have nice bars and some "buzz" to the room, albeit different from one another. And they both have very good wine lists and wine service (EMP more formal). Craft has a more downtown feel (not necessarily talking about geography here) than EMP, but it has a casual elegance to it that I like a lot. There is nothing casual about EMP, but EMP is not in any way uptight or stuffy. That's what I find special about it, actually.

Veritas is a good restaurant, but it's not nearly as New York-y as either of those and the vibe that you want is not really in that restaurant. It's minimalist and has little in terms of warmth. The wine list is extraordinary, and the food is good, but I don't enjoy myself as much in terms of atmosphere.

Cafe Boulud definitely does not have the vibe you are looking for. Far from it. It's a good restaurant, but it's a very upper east side crowd. So is Daniel, for that matter.

I totally get that you don't want a steakhouse - but if you have a chance, do go have a drink in the tavern/bar at Keens at some point.

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Veritas
43 East 20th St., New York, NY 10003

[RGR]

Definitely agree with gutsofsteel about the unmatchable Old NY ambiance at Keens, which has been in its 36th St. location since 1885. Walls adorned with American memorabilia and old clay smoking pipes suspended from all the ceilings, plus pipes belonging to famous people dating back to the 19th century in display cases in the vestibule. And, of course, the steaks, chops (the legendary mutton chop is a signature), sides, etc., are top-notch. It is our favorite NYC steakhouse.

Photos of our most recent visit to Keens: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11863391@N03/sets/72157623279345424/

I don't happen to agree with gos about SHO. The meal we had there was stellar.

SHO photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11863391@N03/sets/72157622498126890/

I must add another suggestion: Cafe Boulud. We had dinner there a few weeks ago, and I can say without a moment's hesitation that the cuisine being served by Chef Gavin Kaysen is truly brilliant!

Cafe Boulud photos taken by our dining companion whose skills are far superior skills than mine: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ulterior...

[gutsofsteel]

RGR, it's just that SHO and Cafe Boulud are far cries from what the OP is looking for, now that he/she has posted more information about preferences and specific characteristics.

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Cafe Boulud
20 East 76th St., New York, NY 10021

[chewbie]

I co-sign RGR's recommendation of EMP and Veritas. I'd also throw Le Bernardin into the mix although it's more on the formal end of the names being thrown out.

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Veritas
43 East 20th St., New York, NY 10003

Le Bernardin
155 W. 51st St., New York, NY 10019

[gutsofsteel]

Why is it a choice between SHO and Gotham?

[Rina_O]

These were 2 that appealed to me that we could make reservations for, as we only decided to come last week. I always wanted to go to Gotham but haven't, the menu at SHO sounds interesting and I kind of wanted to spend an afternoon in the Financial District. We wanted to go to EMP but could only get a 10pm reservation, and I don't really want to have a dinner of that kind so late. Any other recommendations for places that we could get into at this late notice are fine too, I'm open. We come to NY every year or 2 so this isn't a once in a lifetime thing by any means.

[drumwine]

another vote for Sho Shaun Hergatt.....Gotham is solid, but Sho offers a fresher point of view.

[gutsofsteel]

I did not enjoy my two visits to SHO. I find it cold and corporate and generic Asian-hotel style. The wine list is obscenely overpriced, making it hard to drink well at a reasonable price, due to the lousy selection of reasonably priced bottles. There is no creativity to the list.

Have you considered:

Craft
Allegretti
Cafe Boulud
Veritas
Maialino
Hearth

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Cafe Boulud
20 East 76th St., New York, NY 10021

Veritas
43 East 20th St., New York, NY 10003

Allegretti
46 West 22nd Street, New York, NY 10010

Maialino
2 Lexington Avenue, New York, NY 10010

[Rina_O]

Will check those out, thanks. That's kind of my concern with SHO and why Gotham was on the list as an option - I want somewhere that really feels like New York. I want the vibe and the energy, not just a good meal. At least for one of our dinners.

[gutsofsteel]

At SHO, you might as well be in any hotel restaurant in Asia. I felt like a tourist in my own city when I was there. It's the kind of place I would never go to when I travel.

[ceekskat]

I have been trying to call Maialino to get an idea of times available, if any, and haven't even managed to get thru as the line always seems to be busy.

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Maialino
2 Lexington Avenue, New York, NY 10010

[Nancy S.]

Sho Shaun Hergatt -- Gotham is a bit tired.