Potty-mouthed chefs in view of guests?

[curiouscatwithninelives]

Dining out at a highly-acclaimed restaurant with an open kitchen last night and was struck by how vulgar the chef was! Cursing at his staff constantly, and not just the cooks in the kitchen. Am I just being too sensitive? What do you all think about this?

And to make it relevant to the Boston board, I've been to a fair number of open-kitchen restaurants in other major cities and have never been taken aback as much as I was here. What's up with Beantown? (or Camberville in this case)

[Chemicalkinetics]

Like Chef Gordon Ramsay, huh? I heard this is not abnormal in closed kitchen either.

[beevod]

I'd send the chef to bed without supper.

[toodie jane]

In my experience, people who use curse words, f-bombs and the like, in public areas are doing so because they like to hear themselves use "power" words. They like the attention these words get them. It makes them feel strong.

Big words, little....?

[thew]

nonsense. language is language, and it all has uses

[alanbarnes]

As Clarence Darrow said, "there are damn few words in the English language that people understand. About 20. So we damn well better use every damn one of them."

[EWSflash]

Well, I agree with you.

[beevod]

I don't mind a cursing chef. It's when he's also holding a cleaver in his hand that I start to back off.

[susancinsf]

Interestingly, Jon Stewart asked Mario Batali a very similar question when Batali appeared on his show this week (referencing Gordon Ramsay). Batali's response was basically that in his opinion an abusive, yelling, cursing chef was a chef who lacked confidence in his own ability to lead in the kitchen....

[thew]

which is very at odds at what people who work for batali say about the way he runs his kitchen. he isn;t a pussycat in there, by all accounts

[susancinsf]

not 'being a pussycat' and being abusive are two different things, of course. That said, it may not be at odds. Perhaps he just knows himself well.

[thew]

there are no bad words.

[FoodFuser]

Then my early years of having to eat Ivory Soap to wash out bad vocab was just a futile exercise is sudsability, rather than subsidizing a fluent adulthood?

Cussin' in restaurants is just one more reason to open our homes to friends and family as we explore the journey of home-cooked food.

[thew]

yes. it was a waste of soap, and misguided parenting, in my opinion

plenty of well rounded, intelligent, articulate people "cuss"

[Lizard]

Agreed with Thew. Once upon a time, I was told that the use of curse words demonstrated an absence of a verbal imagination. Then I encountered Charlie Brooker (real person) and Malcolm Tucker (fictional character from The Thick of It) and realised that this could be an art form whose eloquence is indisputable. %$£@-ing poetry.

[JerryMe]

OK - Here's the scenario - Working a labor job and I need to use the can (restroom). Make a run to the nearest fast food restaurant (I don't remember which one), use the facilities and decide to purchase SOMETHING cuz' I don't want the pb&j that I packed for lunch. Get in line and listen to the manager? boss? totally dressing down one of the crew members. Threatening her with his finger in her face and telling her she would be fired. She was asking a legitimate question (can I take an order for lunch ilo breakfast?). I sincerely lost my appetite (and I was really hungry and didn't want pb&J)

So, Yes! It is disrespectful, certainly ruined my appetite even in a fast food resto.

I've been a waitress and a dishwasher. I remember the repercussions when you pissed off a chef / cook / boss / manager. I don't think it adds to the 'atmosphere' in any way and it certainly would make me want to take my appetite and dollars elsewhere.

[PeterL]

Ruth Reichl wrote about this in one of her books. She went to a restaurant early and witnessed the hostess being abusive to her staff. That turned Reichl off completely about the restaurant.

[EWSflash]

Listening to verbal abuse of any kind is VERY offensive to me, whether it's vulgar or not. If I'm paying for a meal I should be able to expect a pleasant atmosphere, or at the very least a non-hostile one. I swear like a sailor myself, but I try not to lob f-bombs at innocent bystanders.

[cuccubear]

Yeah, I don’t want to hear someone getting beat up verbally in public either. Take them out back or into the freezer, but not within earshot of customers. A real turn off.

[smartie]

I always wondered how Ramsay gets away with it on TV, not only on Hell's Kitchen but also on Kitchen NIghtmares.

I would not like my dinner interspersed with swearing from the kitchen.

[Sarah]

...not from the kitchen...not from a neighboring table...

[PeterL]

Its a TV show.

[invinotheresverde]

Just to play devil's advocate: why is a chef cursing at his staff such a big deal? They're just words, right? I suppose if there were young children around, parents may not want them to be exposed to such words, but kids at "highly-acclaimed restaurant"s are probably few and far between.

Anyhow, all chefs I know have trash mouths.

[EWSflash]

So do I, but I find it uncomfortable to overhear. The verbal abuse part is the worst part of it. I don't know how chefs have managed to be expected to be abusive to their staffs, anyway. It's like listening to a narcissistic adult temper tantrum. Spare me.

[Lizard]

I think it's interesting to see how quickly the use of vulgarity is interpreted as abuse. I'd like to think of these in different ways. Namely, if it's just vulgar language, I don't mind at all, In fact, I really enjoy some top swearing and anything that is particularly creative will potentially enhance my experience. But if I am forced to witness abuse and workers berating one another, my feelings change.

[smartie]

yes if you hear the chef in conversation with a line cook and it's 'yadayadayad that is so f***ing funny' then that might be ok.

But any boss berating staff in front of customers, clients or patients is not a laughing matter. Irritation is one thing but to belittle and scold when done in public is unacceptable. Now would someone please tell my boss these are the finer points of management.

[alanbarnes]

+1. An employers can be incredibly demeaning and abusive without ever getting close to George Carlin's "seven dirty words." On the other hand, a chef can drop the f-bomb in every single sentence without being abusive.

[EWSflash]

'yadayadayad that is so f***ing funny'
wouldn't run up any alarms occasionally, although gee whiz, TRY to watch your mouth, anyway. But if you read "Kitchen Confidential" or ever watched Gordon Ramsey do anything, you know what I'm talking about. Gutter language and verbal abuse go hand in hand, especially in a restaurant kitchen.

In the absence of verbal abuse, read through a few of these posts and substitute loud flatulence for cursing, and you might get a better idea of how I feel. And flatulence is funnier than a garbage mouth, usually, maybe not so much in a restaurant.

[PeterL]

OP said "cursing at his staff". That's verbal abuse in my book.

[alanbarnes]

I dunno. "Don't take that plate until I've finished the f**king garnish" certainly constitutes cursing at the staff, and is undoubtedly vulgar, but I'm not sure it rises to the level of abuse. On the other hand, "you moron, anyone who's even marginally competent should be able to see that plate isn't ready to go out" is not vulgar, but it's certainly abusive.

[iluvtennis]

I'm with you on this. Cursing or not, i don't like to see bosses get attitude with the staff in front of customers. It think it's unprofessional. Take care of your issues away from customers, please.

[PeterL]

Because I go out to dinner to have a good time. I know they have trashy mouths, but I don't want to hear them when I am out trying to have a good time.

[PeterL]

Because I am out trying to have a good time at a restaurant. To witness verbal abuse is not my idea of a good time.

[invinotheresverde]

Swearing and verbal abuse aren't synonyms.

[PeterL]

OP said "cursing at his staff". That's verbal abuse.

[invinotheresverde]

See alan's post above.

[roro1831]

At Shopsin's in NYC the customers may get cursed at

[bushwickgirl]

"customers may get cursed at"

What? Well, that's not nice, unless it's part of the restaurant's schtick. How fun.

There normally is quite a lot of cursing in restaurant kitchens but I think to be professional one has to carry onself in a professionall manner; cursing should be toned down in an open kitchen. I guess old habits die hard for some chefs.

[EWSflash]

Remind me not to go there. I'd be too tempted to fling a glass of water in the offender's face.

[LiviaLunch]

I was so happy when Kenny told me to go f*** myself, in his old Village location, before Trillin's article was published.

[hiddenboston]

It also happens in LA, at least based on a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode I once saw, LOL.

Seriously, though--I very rarely see (or hear) this in Boston-area restaurants. I'd just go somewhere else, as there are plenty of places where this doesn't happen.

[jgg13]

Craigie on main? :)