Is there a future for cookbooks? Do we need them anymore?

[tonka11_99]

With the web and recipe and cooking sites in abundance. Do we really need cookbooks anymore?

I think they may have gone the way of the newspaper. While many people still read both, the number of people that do shrink every year, don't they?

Look I have a lot of books and many are cookbooks but I get most of my recipes nowadays off the web, I don't want to find them on the web every time I need them so i copy them into word format and save them on my hard drive. It is easy to modify for my needs and likes.

I was just wondering about other peoples comments on this. I hope I haven't offended any die hard cookbook fans.

[Beckyleach]

I still haven't found a cosy way to read a computer in bed....they hurt my eyes and they don't smell like a book. And i *read* my cookbooks...

[buttertart]

Same here - and you wouldn't want to balance a laptop on the rim of the tub, would you?

[aggiecat]

No, agreed, but I can put my iphone in a ziploc freezer bag and browse epicurious in the bath. :) But, seriously, there is still a place for books especially since the content on the internet is so big and so impermanent. I am still going back to recipes from my Mom's vintage 1970's Betty Crocker that are no longer in the new versions of Betty Crocker printed or otherwise. Classics that I want to be exactly the way I remember them from childhook if not nouvelle culinary masterpieces. For that, you gotta have the book. So I am always looking for good new books. Although now I tend to test drive the author/publisher's recipes via online source first so I can get a feel for questions of, how much do I like the way they work and taste, does the recipes make sense, are they easy to make (ie. have they organizaed the prep steps well, gotten the timing and logistics right, can I make this without losing my mind?) So while I might get a few Paula Deen Recipes online, I'm probably not going to buy her recipe books too because there isn't much I don't have a better easier recipe for elsewhere.

[sugarjunkie]

Of course, there will be a place for cookbooks. Even though the Internet has cropped up an abundance of blogs, websites and recipe locators, there will always be those old "go to" recipes that won't appear in the new cookbooks. You know what I'm talking about -- Kentucky Hot Browns, Strawberry Cake, that recipe from Grandma's vintage 1953 Maui Cookery book that doesn't appear on the Internet. Cookbooks are expensive but there are ways to make them inexpensive. Some of you have the right idea -- library sales, tag sales, garage/estate sales, craigslist, talking with friends, neighbors, relative and colleagues. Lots of places online to purchase good quality, used cookbooks with fabulous recipes that won't appear on the Internet. It's also great to actually MAKE a cookbook of your family favorites. I'm in the process of doing that and everyone is telling me they want a copy. I've added pictures, stories and presently editing for accuracy. I look at the Internet as an "enhancement" to my ability to find and locate recipes and culinary related websites but not as a replacement for my much beloved cookbooks.

[Cathy]

If I have ingredients (things I bought on sale) and need a recipe, I can find a plethora by looking online. Google three ingredients and 3000 recipes show up.

I love cookbooks and have them on my bookshelves-not in the kitchen- because they are history.

I collect the group ones written/typed in the 40's and 50's. Those are history. The exotic "alligator pears" (avocadoes) used in recipes...and aparently back then, Brazil Nuts were *the* nut to use in recipes (much like macadamia nuts were *the* nut in the 80's and cashews and almonds are in everything now). Little things, like terminology (some say 'use a hand mixer if you have one or beat with a fork until no lumps')...signatures of the writers "Mrs. Joe Smith"-not "Mary Smith" and a few precursors to what have become 'convenience' items now (adding half a package of pudding mix into a box of cake mix in a 1974 church cookbook I was just reading)...

[flourgirl]

"If I have ingredients (things I bought on sale) and need a recipe, I can find a plethora by looking online. Google three ingredients and 3000 recipes show up."

This is one of the things "eat your books" does and the main reason why I am able to use my books so much more now. (This isn't meant as an attack on your post in any way, I just wanted to point out to people who might not be familiar with "eat your books" yet that this is one of the site's functions. I find it especially useful for using up stuff in my fridge and for using food I purchased at, say, the farmer's market that I want to use in the best possible way.)

[Beckyleach]

Love "Eat Your Books" so much I became a Lifetime member. Now I have an excuse to buy even more cookbooks. :-)

[flourgirl]

"Now I have an excuse to buy even more cookbooks."

LOL! You and me both! :)

[flourgirl]

It could very well be that future generations no longer see the need for hard copies of cookbooks - or any other books for that matter. Frankly, I don't want to be around to see that. Nothing can replace the feel of a book in my hands, the experience of turning the pages, enjoying a well-designed layout, the quality photo reproductions in a high quality book etc. And on top of the physical experience there is the experience of enjoying a well-written cookbook as an emotional and literary experience - the voice of the author, the way the recipes are tied together, the stories that the author tells about each recipe etc. I can be transported to all kinds of places and times in a way I never am on the computer. It's just not the same as getting a stand alone recipe off of the web. Some day they will have to pry my cookbook collection from my cold, dead fingers.

That said, I was having trouble really USING most of my books. I was getting a little overwhelmed when faced with the hundreds of cookbooks in my collection and I wasn't using them as much as I should have been to justify their purchase - a huge source of personal guilt for me. I still read them, but when it came time to actually MAKING something, I would too often surrender to the reality of time limitations and turn to the web instead of leafing through book after book after book trying to find just the right recipe.

Interestingly though, with the advent of the website, "Eat Your Books", I find myself back to using my collection much more often now rather than pulling a recipe off of the internet. I love that a website has enabled me to use my collection so much more efficiently and easily.

[HillJ]

Do you maintain a paid membership at Eat Your Books, flourgirl? If so, do you believe the membership fee ($25, $50.) is a value? In what way?

[flourgirl]

Hi Hill-

Yes, I bought the lifetime membership for $50. It's immensely valuable to me because I just have so many cookbooks (over 500 at last count) and I was getting very frustrated trying to utilize them properly. It's great for finding a recipe to use the ingredients you have on hand and it's also great for helping you find a recipe that you made in the past, but forgot which book it was in. Or sometimes I just want to try a new dish and I can find all the recipes for that dish that I have, compare them and decide which version sounds the best, or what modifications I may want to make to another recipe. Stuff like that.

And I think I've already used the site enough to jusitfy the $50.

fg

[HillJ]

That's remarkable. Thank you for sharing your experience. Initially, I was surprised that this online resource charges a fee and equally surprised to learn the owners have been successful at attracting paying members. How is the community experience?

[flourgirl]

I haven't really gotten involved with the community much yet. Just haven't had time. Too many distractions as it is. :)

There's another "book" site called librarything that I became involved with first and that also has a paid membership. It has tons of members and a community experience as well but I don't find myself using that site much anymore now that I use "eat your books."

I think if I didn't have so many books, say less than 100 or 150, it wouldn't really be necessary. But even with my books somewhat organized by topic it was still just too daunting and took way too long for me to try to find just the recipe I was looking for in over 500+ cookbooks.

Of course, "eatyourbooks" is still evolving. They are always adding and indexing new books and I understand that they are planning on adding features like letting people add out of print books (they are currently working off of Jessica's Biscuit catalog) and possibly magazines as well.

[ttoommyy]

Post deleted.

[Pia]

When I need the best recipe for a certain dish that I have in mind, or when I want a step-by-step tutorial, I turn to the Internet.

When I want someone's ideas or point of view, I like to look at a cookbook. I think of it as more of a trusted source. I also enjoy flipping through my cookbooks -- often I'll get an idea from that and then look on the Internet for a better recipe or variations. I don't care whether I'm looking at a printout from epicurious.com or my spattered copy of Joy of Cooking when I'm actually in the kitchen, but when I'm looking for inspiration, I like a cookbook.

[Bill Hunt]

I wonder about this. OTOH, my wife, who has several smart phones, and a voice actuated automobile, still buys cookbooks and uses them. Maybe it's the thought of hot grease spattering onto her laptop?

Time will tell.

Hunt

[tonka11_99]

I own several cookbooks, in fact, I just received a couple out of the mail box. I bought them on the internet at a severe discount which is the only way I buy a cookbook or any book for that matter.

When I find a recipe I like in one of those cookbooks, I can usually find it on the web from that chef. I copy it into word. Set it up in the format I like and save it to my hard drive. I very seldom have to hand enter the recipe out of the book.

I still like having the recipes on my hard drive so I can find it. Besides, there are very few recipes I don't end up modifying. If I am in a vastly respectful attitude I make my changes and change the file name slightly so I still have the original. Sometimes I just modify the existing recipe because i am the only one that has to be pleased by the recipe. I sometimes add in notes at the end about possible variations or things that might go well with it.

When I want to cook the dish I print it out and at the end of the meal, whether it has a gravy stain on it or not, I throw it away.

Sometimes I will take the same technique or even the same general recipe and change ingredients because if I can steam/saute green beans in a covered saute pan with butter and water, I can steam/saute carrots or broccoli.

I will say this about the cookbooks I buy. I usually only find 5-6 recipes in a book I am interested in trying to duplicate.

Consequently, I think the printed cookbook as well as the printed newspaper and the printed phone book are going are going the way of the dinosaur and the dodo bird.

[Caitlin McGrath]

Question: When you say you usually find it on the web from that chef, are those recipes actually put on the web by the author him- or herself on the author's site, or found on newspaper web site or the like? I ask because if a blogger or poster to a recipe site posted the recipe, and not a cookbook author on his or her own site, those recipes would not be available if the printed cookbook were not. And, if cookbooks are no longer issued, the professionals who write them will not be providing the equivalent content free on the web, as selling their recipes is their livlihood.

[tonka11_99]

Well, I just bought a wonderful cookbook. "How to cook without a book" by Pamela Anderson and another I fairly recently purchased was "The New Best Recipe" by Cook's Illustrated. I found most of Pam Anderson's recipes from the book at either food Network.com or All recipes.com. I found all the recipes in Cook's Illustrated book at Cook's Illustrated.com (there are like 600 of them). Now I do have a subscription to Cook's Illustrated that allows me access to all their recipes including from the books.

Most of these great chefs have written articles or published recipes on public web sites. For Instance, all the great chef's on food network publish most of their recipes on Food Network's site.

I think why I probably won't buy too many more cookbooks is that I am mostly interested in technique cookbooks not vast compilations of recipes. Well After buying a bunch of technique cookbooks, I probably am familiar as a home cook needs to be or at least have access to the info in the books I already have.

[Caitlin McGrath]

I understand. My point was simply that if you find recipes from cookbooks at sites like Allrecipes.com or Recipe Zaar, or on someone's blog, they are there because someone took them from the cookbook and posted them. Many cookbook authors will have some recipes out there as a form of publicity for their books, or you might be able to get some of them through Google Books. All of that depends on cookbooks existing as something that people will purchase. Even should they transition to electronic format successfully, they will have to be something that people purchase for new recipes to be generated as a livlihood by the professionals we value. I doubt that the format that they will take is as original website content, for that reason. Other formats will depend on a critical mass of buyers adopting devices on which to read them, and that's something evolving.

[Beckyleach]

Not to sound like scold, but if you ONLY buy your books at a deep discount, you're not doing much to encourage publishers to publish, and authors to write.

Something to think about...I like to stick it to the Man, but I also like to reward creativity.

[jmckee]

i'm a bit puzzled as to why anybody would think cookbooks are passe.

My observations:

1. Frankly, the quality of recipes I get from the internet is rather a mixed bag. About three-quarters actually turn out a dish that "works"; somewhat fewer are of the quality I'm seeking; even fewer than that are, to use a "problem" word, "authentic," e.g., a risotto that would be recognizable to an interested Italian.

2. Authorial point of view is very important in the best cookbooks. The works of Lynne Rosetto Kasper, say, or Mark Biitman are compiled with a definite take on the topic. Chances are if I like one recipe in the book I'll like and try a lot of others.

3. it's not that easy to get a comprehensive set of recipes on the internet; "Mastering the Art of Chinese Cooking" would take you years to download. If I want to learn about a certain type of cooking -- ethnicity, technique, ingredient -- i'm going to find the right cookbook rather than slog my way through the 'net. if I want to learn about Jewish food (and currently, I do), I'll buy Claudia Roden's book on that topic.

4. I like the "package" of a cookbook -- the feel, the design, the pictures, the permanence of the thing. it does far more for me than a series of printed internet pages.

5. I don't have a computer in the kitchen. My island is a bare, working island and it's easier for me to lay a cookbook on the counter than to do anything else.

[nofunlatte]

But if Rhoden. Kasper, Bittman, et al, and their recipes/instruction were solely available on the internet instead of physical form, would you trust them less? I am not anti-cookbook--I love them and buy entirely too many of them--but eventually I think they will form a very small subset of culinary works. This may take some time, but I do believe it will happen.

BTW, I too like the package of the book--I love the aesthetics of opening a book, touching the pages (assuming it's on quality paper), gazing at the photography, using the index to search, etc. But I grew up with books--today's digital natives are probably as--if not more--comfortable with media devices like iPads and Kindles (though I do love my Kindle).

[HillJ]

http://www.chow.com/videos/show/obses...

Mr. Waxman knows the value of printed cookbooks and makes a fantastic real authority for the vast place cookbooks have in our every day lives. Rock on, Mr. Waxman!

[nofunlatte]

I think cookbooks will eventually go the way of the dinosaur, at least cookbooks as we know them (Jennalynn raised the important point that BOOKS aren't dying, PRINT is dying). But, I think it will take some time--cookbooks are probably one of the few rosy sectors in the publishing business. A substantial portion of the population grew up with physical, hard copy books and frankly, until that population (and its discretionary income) dies out, physical books will be here. The younger population--the digital natives--aren't going to miss the physical books, because they use them less and less. Education materials are increasingly removed from being founded on print media, so kids grow up learning with emerging media and technologies. They will use cooking instructional materials on the web, YouTube, social networks, etc. Additionally, devices (e.g. Kindle, iPad and the like) will increasingly evolve to provide more enhanced booklike experiences, and we may see more "kitchen-friendly" computers.

That said, I do love my many cookbooks and enjoy perusing them and holding them and yes, looking and drooling over the great photos!

[ttoommyy]

"They will use cooking instructional materials on the web, YouTube, social networks, etc."

But until these e-materials are monitored, researched, fact checked, etc., they are not as refined a resource or learning tool as a published cookbook. I've tried going on youtube for some instructional videos, but most of what is on there is useless to me. Bad techniques, misinformation, dirty kitchens, etc.

[nofunlatte]

I think you are misinterpreting my post as a stance against cookbooks, which it is not. I have many cookbooks, well over a hundred at last count (granted, there are many chowhounds with orders of magnitude more than me). I love them, whether I use them or not. BUT I was addressing whether or not the physical cookbook as we know it will survive. I think not. Nowhere did I address the veracity of digital content vs. print. That said, there is no guarantee with print books, either. I've seen mistakes, errors, and omissions in my physical books, so publication is no "stamp of approval". Nor is there a guarantee that recipes were tested in clean kitchens--one just doesn't really know. And jmckee notes (downthread) the works of authority--but would Bittman (one of his/her examples) be less of an authority if "How to Cook Everything" were a website as opposed to a physical book? Is his NYTimes column/blog less trustworthy than his books?

[beevod]

The end of cookbooks would be the end of civilization. Oh, those lovely pages and their tell-tale food stains.

[dmd_kc]

I'm as plugged in as they come, but my cookbooks have a place that can never be replaced electronically. They're so much more contemplative and thoughtful, and the worst you can do to their pages is to stain them or occasionally stick them together. There's no way I'm getting an electronic screen near a citrus juicer or a bubbling sauce pan.

[Cherylptw]

While it's easy to jump on the computer to look up a recipe, I still like cookbooks even though I rarely buy them for myself. I do get nice ones as gifts though. Another thing is that not everyone is online these days. My mother (who is 66), for one, does not own a computer nor does she really have a desire to learn how to use them but she has a ton of cookbooks. So my answer is yes, I believe there is a future...

[Azizeh]

I collect cookbooks. I read them like regular books, cover to cover. Oddly enough, when I want to look up how to make something, I usually go to the internet for the rundown. Having so many cookbooks, it's hard for me to remember where I read something or to take the time to find it.

But, there's something charming about cookbooks. I will continue to collect them.

When I do use a cookbook, I Xerox the page and take that into the kitchen, as to not ruin the whole book.

[Woodrow Wilson]

Web sites and e-book cookbooks are ready for the computer, but is the computer ready for them? Maybe not. I know what one drop of merlot on my motherboard cost me. I keep my computer out of the kitchen. There go a lot of the advantages of electronic recipe collections.

[ipsedixit]

Not just cookbooks, but all books, magazines, etc. are an endangered species.

It's a brave new world of iPads and Kindles ...

[Jennalynn]

Books are not endangered... Printing is.

I love my kindle and I read books on it. Authors will still write and I will still read. It's just the delivery system of the words that will change.

But I don't Kindle cookbooks. Just a choice. I buy hard copies of cookbooks.

[pikawicca]

Cookbooks do not work at all well on Kindle.

[tonka11_99]

Now folks. I am advocating saving your recipes in Word format on your hard drive. I have hundreds of recipes divided up in categories. If I have one that I have modified I have a code in the title that it is mine. I back these recipes up and I also carry them on a thumb drive.

If I have several recipes of the same type... say Beef Stroganoff, I have the recipes in tier 1 and tier 2 to know to check the tier 1 first. I suppose I will probably delete the tier 2 eventually.

This method seems easier to me for finding these recipes again. I hate to go through books and websites looking for a recipe I have been meaning to try. I do, however have a lot of cookbooks with colorful flags from post it on them.

[amyzan]

I do save recipes on my hard drive, but am not in the habit of it. I will peruse my cookbook shelf first when deciding on a menu. Probably more out of habit than anything.

[ttoommyy]

Cookbooks are (usually) well written, researched and edited. Many web sites are poorly written and often give wrong amounts, etc. It's the nature of the beast. A book is forever when it is printed and a lot of care is given to the final product. Web sites can change by the minute and therefore many people are not very careful about what they write since they know it can be easily fixed if someone brings it to their attention. Furthermore, a lot of content on web sites is written by nonprofessionals; cookbooks have professional authors, editors, fact checkers, etc., behind them. I find many recipe sites have errors running throughout. Of course these are general statements and I realize there are very good web sites and poorly written cookbooks. But I stand by my original statements as a rule. I am not tech-phobic in the least: I recently started reading most books (but not cookbooks! lol) on a kindle, for instance. I just love cookbooks.

[viperlush]

Cookbooks you can pass down to future generations. How can you pass down websites?

[jvanderh]

I will most definitely pass down websites. I am contemplating downloading all my bookmarked recipes onto a thumb drive as part of a wedding gift.

I buy a cookbook if I can't get a digital version and I think it's going to be great. Half the time, I end up regretting it anyway. I agree that they're largely unnecessary. It is sometimes nice not to have to lug the computer into the kitchen, though. . .

[ceekskat]

Love perusing cookbooks as well as online forums...

"It is sometimes nice not to have to lug the computer into the kitchen, though. . ." That's what the ipad (with a stand) is for :) LOL!

[tonka11_99]

Well, I don't have to lug my computer into the kitchen... I have one of those new fangled printers. :-) I still buy em but I usually regret it after. Thank god for half.com and Amazon used book section. I don't think I would pay retail for a cookbook on a bet.

[viperlush]

Sure it's possible to pass down websites, but thumb drives/memory cards are easy to lose or overwrite. Website content changes or disappears. I know books can be lost or destroyed to, but it's far more difficult to do the same to a book (at least for me it is). Books carry notes and stains along with the recipes. I frequently swap online recipes with my mother, but it's the cookbooks from my grandmother and my boyfriend's grandmother that I cherish. But then again I am one of those who refuse to see the purpose on online books, magazines, and newspapers.

I am surprised that no one has started a thread on the best way to get flour.sugar, etc. from between the keys of a computer. Or how to get splatter off it's screen. At least I haven't put a hot pot on the laptop (yet)...

[Jennalynn]

That will work only if the site stays online forever.

I have many links from sites that have become defunct. And now I wish I had downloaded a screen grab or a pdf of the information I was hoping to keep.

[HillJ]

All of my home cooking and professional chef friends & family still enjoy rec'ing cookbooks as gifts and view food mags, food blogs, cooking videos, CD/DVD food sets and recipe cards supplements to the original published work ie: cookbook. It is true that the markets in all areas are changing and changing fast but original work is still treasured imho.

[amyzan]

I'm much pickier about which cookbooks I actually buy anymore. But, I do buy cookbooks that are particularly useful, like Deborah Madison's Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone. I'm not even a vegetarian, which tells you something. But, it's been several years since I found a cookbook I felt absolutely compelled to purchase like I did with Madison's. Purchasing is more of a pleasure, indulgence, and convenience, I'd say. I'm one of those who takes cookbooks to bed or to the doctor's office to read. Computers just don't make as good a companion, IMO, and certainly aren't sleep inducing. Until we fully integrate computers into our homes, i.e. monitors in many rooms with wi-fi, I think cookbooks will continue to have a place.

[Caitlin McGrath]

I, for one, find great value in cookbooks. I have found many great recipes online, but I am much more inspired by cookbooks. In addition to the aesthetic aspects others have noted, cookbooks provide valuable context that is hard to find on websites. Authors include discussions of techniques, ingredients, historical and cultural context, etc. that you're unlikely to find on websites that often offer recipes as discrete entities. Too, books on particular cuisines offer context and much education about that particular cuisine that is unusual to find on websites that may replicate some of the recipes. And consider that much of what one can find online, on blogs and on sites like Allrecipes and Recipe Zaar are recipes straight from cookbooks. If those cookbooks ceased to be released, there would be many fewer new and exciting recipes posted on the web.

[TheSwedishFish]

I feel like cookbooks have become a bit like cd's, you're mostly interested in a couple of recipes, and don't necessarily want to buy the whole book. And when you can get so many recipes online it's easy to print them off and collect them in a recipe book of your own.

Having said that, I do think that there is still a market for cookbooks. There's the whole aesthetic aspect of it - like icecone says, the photos are nicer and you can easily just flick through the book without actually having to make any of the recipes. It's like food escapism. And if you want to make a recipe, you don't have to turn on the computer to find it.

There are still loads of cookbooks being published, especially in the celebrity chef genre, and now food bloggers get the opportunity to publish their stuff too, so I definitely think cookbooks will be around for a good while.

[icecone]

Some advantages of cookbooks:

1. they organize recipes. you can bookmark a recipe online, but the page can disappear and large bookmark menus are hard to navigate

2. the pictures are nicer and they're already printed on photo quality paper. when you find nice pictures on the web, they gobble up ink to print out.

3. books don't need a computer and you can lay on the couch thumbing through them.

4. famous chefs have something to autograph.