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My search for a Non-Stick alternative, my results, and THANKS!

A while back, I decided to get rid of my teflon pans and was searching for an alternative.

Thanks to this forum, I picked up some DeBuyer Carbon Steel pans. It took a while to find them and to figure out which ones were "best". I finally got the Carbonne Plus. Turns out (thanks to Chemical Kinetics) that the Force Blue line might be better for me. The thickness is based on your heat source and the Carbonne Plus is probably thicker than I need at home.

Regardless, I received my 2 Carbonne Plus pans, followed the steps boiling potato skins, and then heated some peanut oil in the pans. I've cooked bacon, hash browns, pancakes, scrambled and fried eggs with no problem. I clean them with hot water, a nylon scrub pad, NO SOAP, and wipe them dry when done.

These pans work great. I have some seasoned cast iron and the steel pans stick less for me plus they are lighter.

Thanks to all of you for steering me to these.

I just need some silicon sleeves for the handles and I'm all set. No more teflon for me!!!

Hope this helps someone in the future.


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  1. pquidry,

    So glad you've joined the "carbon steel" fan club! I'm so impressed with mine that I now own several and rely on them for nearly everything. Yeah, they're a bit heavy, but not like cast iron in weight. Just note, if you do decide to get the 14" fry pan beware that it's a real monster and pretty heavy.

    I have some joint issues, so I really like the angled, wide handles too.

    Good luck with your pans!

    1 Reply
    1. re: breadchick

      Breadchick (and anyone else who has experience/thoughts), re: relying on them for nearly everything -- has reactivity been an issue? I've heard mixed things, including on these boards. I cook with a lot of tomatoes and other acidic foods, and was wondering it I could regularly use these pans for that - ideally right out of the gate (after the first seasoning) but at least after they're well seasoned (?).

      BTW, thanks - I believe you were the first to get me thinking about CS and your posts on this have helped a lot. It's been fun to follow your progress from initially thinking about the pans, to getting your first ones, to building up a whole collection, to now relying almost entirely on them!

    2. Thanks for posting about them. Where did you buy them from? What type of range do you have that you feel they are too thick? I thought thicker conducts heat better though.

      4 Replies
      1. re: blondelle


        I think a thicker pan will have better heat capacity (heat retention) and may have a bit better heat distribution (heat eveniness), but, in term of heat conduction (heat response), I believe the thinner the better.


        Yeah, what did you get? Tell us.

        1. re: blondelle

          I got them from www.finestcookware.com It was very hard to find the Carbonne Steel model. Amazon has the newer Mineral Steel line which has the same thicknesses. I bought the 12 5/8" (2 handles) and the 11".

          finestcookware.com was great. I ordered on a Saturday and originally ordered the 9.5" instead of the 11". I sent them an email and they called me Sunday evening at 9:00 to help me straighten it out.

          I have a gas range. A basic Kenmore. With the points you mention, the thicker is probably better. I'd stay with the Carbonne Plus or Mineral Steel in the future.

          The pans are great. I just finished making Philly Cheese Steaks in them.

          1. re: pguidry

            I want to post one more update. I love these pans. I've gotten rid of all my teflon and use these all the time. I also have a stainless steel sautee pan that I use sometimes. I just ordered 2 more of the Debuyer's today (9.5" and 14"). I need at least 3 but the new ones were so cheap. I got them from bakedeco.com their page says "black steel" not Carbonne but the thickness goes to 3mm. I should have them next week. I hope they're as good as the first 2 I got.

            1. re: pguidry

              I found an earlier thread discussing the difference (or lack) among lines. Thanks.

          2. Very interesting & impressive. Thanks for the post. Do you know where this DeBuyer pan is made?

            29 Replies
            1. re: fauchon

              I believe the original ones I bought (Carbonne Steel) were made in France. I checked the pans and they don't say "Made In" anywhere on them. The handles are stamped "DeBuyer France" though.

              I haven't seen the new ones yet (next week). The site I ordered them from says they're made of Black Steel. That's not listed on DeBuyers website. We'll see what shows up.

              1. re: pguidry

                I originally got my deBuyer carbon steel pans from Chef's Catalog, but now they only carry the mineral line. So, when I wanted to get a couple more c/s pans, I found the "finestcookware" website and was able to order the additional c/s pans I wanted. Those pans matched identically with my first order from Chef's. (I also checked deBuyer's website to be sure I was getting the same pans based on thickness, etc.) The second order arrived without a hitch - btw. Good website.

                Glad to hear you're happy with yours.

                (Kudos to you for getting that monster 14" pan! I honestly wish I could lift it!)

                1. re: breadchick

                  Excellent post Paul! And thanks for the tips from everyone else.

                  All these years of cooking and the only carbon steel pan in my kitchen was a wok.

                  I have always had to do my high heat searing in cast iron.

                  I wonder.....is the carbon steel pans more popular in French or European kitchens? I sure don't remember seeing them in stores in the US.

                  1. re: cajundave

                    Good question. Carbon steel pans are not very popular over here.

                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                      Very true, CK, I don't know anyone else, personally, who have these pans.

                      I don't think anyone in my extended family would see anything but a blackened pan that they would most likely suggest I throw out!

                      Eh, eh, eh.

                      1. re: breadchick


                        You should be grateful if they only suggest you to throw the blacken pans out, as opposed to "helpfully" throw them out for you. What would go through your mind when you come home one day to only find the pans have been thrown out by your relatives?

                        Would you be overwhelmed by anger that you attack them? or would you be filled with sadness and burst into tear? Or maybe just start laughing because you are starting to lose your mind?

                        Just kidding.

                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                          I would tell them to keep their effin hands off my cookware & that if they couldn't retrieve those pans from el garbagio they could treat me to new ones. Not that I'd let them season them for me....bleh...:-(

                          1. re: fauchon

                            Gotcha, fauchon. Don't give me no crap, and keep your hands off my pans.

                            (hmm, channeling some Georgia Satelites?)

                          2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                            Ha, CK, good one.

                            Hmm - I think I'd give them pause, and demonstrate the amazing roasted Yukon Gold fingerlings with browned butter, sage, and garlic that the little black pan can do to perfection!

                            And then, I'd do some pan seared pork tenderloin medallions with wild mushrooms lapped with a rustic dijon sauce. Again, using my little black pan.

                            Eh, eh, eh. (They'll ask for leftovers.)

                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                              First i would flip out about them throwing away my pans, and secondly i would shake a finger at them pointing out the pans are recyclable. i would insist on replacements and tell them the next time they feel like murdering the environment to do it away from my kitchen.

                              recently joined the carbon steel camp, but there is no turning back for me. I have two de buyer pans and looking to add a 12.5 in fry pan from the mineral or carbonne plus line, i'm trying to decide how much i really want that helper handle. :)

                              1. re: cannibal

                                Cannibal, I noticed you got the two 9.5" already -- are they both the blue line, and if so, what is making you want mineral or cabonne plus for your next one? wondering if you tk they'd be better than blue, which i know is thinner.

                                1. re: iyc_nyc

                                  that's correct, i got the crepe and country style fry pan both 9.5 inches in the force blue line. I originally started looking into carbon steel for a 12 inch or larger fry pan, came across the deal at world market, and could not pass it up. I decided at the price point it was a good introduction to carbon steel to test the waters, i'm sold for life :)

                                  I'm still in the market for a fry pan and will go with the de buyer 12.5, but just need to decide between mineral and carbone plus. the reason i'm looking into the mineral or carbone plus lines is for the extra 1mm of thickness. Both lines offer a 3mm thick 12.5 inch pan and, if my understanding is correct, the only difference between those two lines is the carbone has a helper handle and a slightly different finish.

                                  Sorry, kinda rambling. To answer your question, from what i have read in regard to the force blue, mineral, and carbon lines is that there isn't really a "better" line, just different. I am not speaking from experience though and wish to get a pan from another line to see what the performance difference is, if any. I have a dinky consumer gas range and probably won't notice much difference between the lines. I'll post back if/when I get my bluestar range ;)

                                  1. re: cannibal

                                    Also supposively, the mineral is more environmental friendly and are made from recycled steel. How much, no idea.

                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                      I've never read any claims about the Mineral line being made from "recycled" steel. The marketing materials do state, however, that the Mineral series is "recyclable". From the De Buyer website:

                                      Organic construction 99% pure iron
                                      Ecological Recyclable Durable


                                      1. re: ToothTooth

                                        Most steel contains recycled iron. That is, junk cars are crushed and shredded, melted and blended with 'raw' iron, ending up a plate steel and eventually washing machines.

                                        I suspect De Buyer is pandering to people fear that there are toxic contaminants in recycled steel, and hence want some pure and 'organic'. Recycled or not, I can't imagine something less 'organic', especially since the French equivalent is 'biologique'.

                                        1. re: ToothTooth


                                          I think the term "organic construction" may mean it is made from recycled material in 99%. The word "organic" always confuse the heck out of me.

                                      2. re: cannibal

                                        Thanks, Cannibal. Pls report back on differences, even on your regular gas range! (that's what I have too :-). Would be interesting to see if that extra 1 mm makes a difference on a standard range.

                                2. re: breadchick

                                  New to forum, so ...Hi !! Great forum you have here.

                                  I am in the UK and also don't personally know anyone who has these pans. I have 6 but I think I might be insane.

                                  My mum suggested I clean them when she saw them. I think most people over here still go for convenient cookware. It has to be light, cheap, non-stick and last forever! At least it gives them something to moan about when they have to replace it all.

                                  Not sure about the French,.. the ones I know (in Paris, mainly) don't cook much; less than the currently cooking-mad British. They have tiny kitchens, 1 "fait-tout" style pan, and eat out a lot.

                                  1. re: Fumet

                                    Welcome to this site.

                                    "It has to be light, cheap, non-stick and last forever" -- does it exist?

                                    Carbon steel pans are the very close to this description. They are light, fairly inexpensive, last forever. Though not completely nonstick, they are probably the closest one can get beside Teflon cookware. Meanwhile, Telfon cookware are almost at the opposite spectrum of "last forever" and cast iron cookware is the antonym to "light".

                                    1. re: Fumet

                                      Welcome, Fumet! Geographically, I'm located in upstate New York.

                            2. re: pguidry

                              OK, I got the pans from bakedeco.com today. Low and behold, they're the Carbonne Steel line. What a great price. The 14" will be great for big batches of food, like they next time I want to fry up 6 big pork chops. Can't do that with the 12", have to do 2 batches. Leftovers for work. When my kids move out in a few years, I'll probably get rid of the monster.

                              I haven't touched my cast iron since I got these. I'd get rid of them but they were passed down from my Mom.

                              1. re: pguidry

                                If you want to test carbon steel for cheap consider 2 options:
                                - a crepe pan (also good for omelets)
                                - a Mexican comal, tortilla griddle (<$10)
                                Both are shallow, which is fine for things they designed for as well as grilling.

                                1. re: paulj

                                  Personally, I think they're great and will only use teflon for scrambled eggs. I just think that for a lot of people who lack the knowledge of cooking which seems to be abundant in this forum, a cheap teflon pan might be the best choice for simple cooking of certain foods (omelettes, light fish, etc)... even if if has to be replaced every year or 2.

                                  I prefer carbon steel to cast iron because you have more control over temperature, they are lighter, and a pan sauce seems to come out better than with cast iron. I only use cast iron when I need to cook something that would suck the heat from carbon steel too quickly - like a whole load of mushrooms. If I had a higher BTU burner, I probably wouldn't use cast iron any more. Seasoning carbon steel is a less forgiving process than cast iron in my experience,.. but still far from impossible.

                                  I don't think I have ever seen a US-style cast iron skillet in a kitchen over here - they seem extremely popular over there! I will definitely buy a proper vintage one next time I visit!

                                  1. re: Fumet

                                    When you cook fish in your carbon steel pan, does the pan retain the fishy smell for the next dish?

                                    1. re: E_M

                                      I have cooked salmon in mine and it has not retained the smell at all.

                                      I always do a salt scrub, followed by a mini-seasoning burn-in after every use. Takes a few mins but it seems to help keep them nicely maintained - and may help with smells?

                                    2. re: Fumet

                                      I wouldn't recommend a teflon pan for anyone. I think people read these forums to learn, and to be steered in the right direction. From what I have seen at peoples houses, the people who buy teflon pans tend to keep them well after they should be kept; coating peeling off and in bad shape. We've all got to do our part and take the time to show them that there are much better methods! :)

                                      1. re: Fumet

                                        Fumet, I find the carbon steel is perfect for scrambled eggs. They just slide around in the pan - light and fluffy, just using a silicon spat.

                                        My carbon steels are now like mini-flat tops. Breadchick's Diner!!

                                        1. re: Fumet

                                          I tried to fry wild mushrooms in mineral pan and they got stuck to the surface. Does it mean, mineral pan is not good one to cook mushrooms in? Is cast iron better?



                                          1. re: julia01945

                                            How are you cooking them? If they're sticking, it might be because you're not letting them brown before you try to turn them.

                                            My method is generally to sweat and slightly brown the mushrooms in batches (without crowding the pan) in a hot pan with little or no oil. Dry is ideal; I don't wash most wild mushrooms, but I do usually wash morels (several rinses immediately before cooking, and then towel or spin dry), in which case you want an even hotter pan. I turn them over after they release cleanly.

                                            Then, deglaze the pan, re-heat it with a little oil, and sauté the browned mushrooms with oil, salt, and pepper.

                                            [And yes, I cook wild and cultivated mushrooms in my Mineral carbon steel pan, as well as in cast iron, with no problem]

                                2. These look great! Can they go into a hot oven?

                                  1 Reply
                                  1. re: Channa

                                    The hottest oven you can muster. I personally have two of these babies and they are great! Angled sides allow tossing like a regular skillet (not the straight sides of a CI), and I personally have the ones with CI handles, rather than the stamped steel ones. I find them more comfortable, albeit a little heavier and more expensive.

                                  2. Quick question: Where are the De Buyer pans made?

                                    1 Reply
                                    1. Costplus world market has a deBuyer Force Blue 24cm (9.5") frying pan at 50% off of their regular $39.

                                      2 Replies
                                      1. re: paulj

                                        That's a good deal. Thanks for the tip. It says out of stock online but I am going to the store and see if they have one.

                                        1. re: paulj

                                          SWEET! Thanks for the tip, I just called my local store and they have one put on hold for me. Woo hoo!!!! $19.99 is too good a price to pass up.

                                        2. These look good and really aren't a bad price! Thanks for the tip!

                                          1 Reply
                                          1. re: cosmogrrl

                                            I just got two from World Market and their service is AWESOME. There was something wrong with the pans and they went above and beyond to remedy - rare level of customer service.

                                            The pans look great too (ignoring the defects which I think were just plain bad luck)).

                                          2. I have a 12" Lodge...really want a DeBuyer too--those of you with the 14" DB--is it as heavy as the Lodge?

                                            1 Reply
                                            1. re: flfoodie2

                                              As best as I can recall, the 14" number (drool) is about 7 lbs. Now, that doesn't sound like a lot, I imagine, to folks who use cast iron, but that's way heavy for me. Esp not even including the food in it!

                                              I drool because I love. I WISH I had the forearms my son has...

                                            2. Just wanted to let everyone know that after reading this thread, I purchased a De Buyer carbon steel crepe pan (from the Mineral product line) to see what all the fuss was about.

                                              This thing is FANTASTIC!!

                                              I seasoned it as directed and then proceeded to cook up some scrambled eggs. I was shocked to find that the eggs didn't stick in this pan whatsoever. And this was on the maiden voyage of the pan!

                                              After the pan cooled, I ran it under hot water and it wiped clean very easily (no soap to preserve the seasoning). Color me impressed. Why don't more people know about these pans? They. Are. Awesome! I'm going to place an order for a couple of frying pans next.

                                              As for my Teflon pans, their days of usefulness is over. I'll most likely be donating them to charity or finding some other way to re-use or re-purpose them since they're not recyclable in my area.

                                              3 Replies
                                              1. re: ToothTooth

                                                Welcome to the world of Carbon Steel!

                                                I have been doing a lot of omelettes in these pans lately and when you get the temp/fat/pan-size right you get a really authentic French brassiere style omelette! Slight buttery crunch,.. followed by slightly runny fluffy egg. yum yum.

                                                Pan-seared some vension in one last night and finished in the oven. Was really good! Couldn't have done that with teflon!

                                                1. re: Fumet

                                                  Fumet, I have two of the 12 inch fry pans. I'll bet your venison in one pan would be wonderful with my fingerling tatties w/garlic herb butter in the other!

                                                  Double YUM!

                                                  1. re: breadchick

                                                    Yeah, that does sound good!! I had better go and cook now before I eat the keyboard!

                                              2. I just bought a De Buyer Mineral 8-inch Steel Fry Pan (B002S52X1E) from Amazon.com for $20.00. It's eligible for free Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Can't wait for it to arrive so I can try it. I currently use 12", 8" and 6" Griswold cast iron skillets. I'm still going to continue using them, they are family heirlooms with 50+ years of seasoning.

                                                8 Replies
                                                1. re: Antilope

                                                  I received the De Buyer 8-inch steel fry pan (Mineral line) and have put it to the test. First I followed the seasoning instructions from the video on the De Buyer website. The seasoning instructions are: boil some potato peelings in the pan for 15-minutes (I used the peelings from 2 potatoes and water to fill the frying pan about 2/3 to the top). Then rinse the pan, dry with a paper towel and heat some oil (about 1/4 inch deep. I used canola oil) until it smokes slightly. Pour out that oil and wipe with a paper towel and the pan is now non-stick and ready for use. At this point the pan interior will be just slightly darkened. I heated the pan slightly, added a couple of tablespoons of canola oil and made some fried potatoes and then some link sausages. They did not stick at all. The video cleaning instructions are to use a drop of dish washing liquid and a nylon green sponge (scotch brite?). I used a nylon brush. Rinse with very hot water, dry and coat with oil using a paper towel. Next time I will try some pancakes and fried eggs. So far I am very pleased with the pan and plan to buy some larger ones. I should add that I have a gas cooktop.

                                                    1. re: Antilope

                                                      I just wanted to report back that I have recently purchased the De Buyer 24cm Blue Steel Crepe Pan ( http://www.amazon.com/Buyer-Pancake-C... ). I couldn't be more pleased with it. Between it and the Cook's Illustrated recipe for Sweet Crepes, I now can make near perfect crepes. It is so non-stick it's hard to believe. After trying these two carbon steel pans, I would never buy a teflon pan again. Just make sure to follow the initial seasoning instructions and you should have no problems.

                                                      1. re: Antilope

                                                        The good thing is that in the case you accidently ruin the seasoning surface by overheating it, you can just regenerate the surface by seasoning it again. You cannot do that for a Teflon pan.

                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                          The seasoning process takes months or years.

                                                          I'll stick with my Scanpans. The Gen2 Scanpans are a marvel. My son's are 4 years old and still as nonstick as the day I bought them for him. His roomates stacked cast iron inside his Scanpans, no damage to the surface.

                                                          Sure, you can't stick them in the dishwasher - but carbon steel won't go in the dishwasher either. And you don't have to season them, you can use soapy water (but don't usually need to) and you can freely scrape away with any metal utensil your little heart desires.

                                                          As soon as I can afford it I'm upgrading from my Gen1 pans to the Gen2, like my son's.

                                                          1. re: ZenSojourner

                                                            :) Well, many cast iron and carbon pans get better as you use them. A year old carbon steel pan may perform better than a week old pan, but it does not mean a week old pan cannot be used. In fact, the initial seasoning process should take between 10 minute (stoveopt) to 2 hours (oven), and the pans should be ready to go.

                                                            1. re: ZenSojourner

                                                              Zen, I am guessing you don't have a carbon steel pan, and are judging the seasoning time based on new rough (un-machined) cast iron? I have both cast iron and carbon steel, and whilst the seasoning on carbon steel will improve a bit over months and years,.. 95% of the work will be done in the first few weeks of hard use. In contrast, my modern cast iron fry pan took something between 5-10 years to get to the same non-stick performance.

                                                              Having said that, I have heard good things about those Scanpans! Next time I replace my Calphalon teflon fry pans I will go for a Scanpan... and report back if its really any better than my usual throw-away stuff.

                                                              Happy Frying! :-)

                                                              1. re: Fumet

                                                                Nope, I don't have carbon steel, but I'm basing the seasoning on various instructions (from this site mostly actually). They all seem to agree that seasoning takes a Long Time. I know it takes a VERY Long Time for cast iron, which I used to cook with as a child. Hate-ums cast iron!

                                                                The Gen 2 Scanpans are holding up very well indeed. Take their instructions about running them under cold water seriously, otherwise crap builds up on them and covers up the non-stick coating.

                                                                BTW, I'll probably have to get some carbon steel eventually. I need a real wok one of these days, and Scanpans just won't cut it because they're so heavy. Which flies in the face of my Western-centric Heavy Pans Are Better mentality, but there it is.

                                                    2. Just ordered the 12" carbone steel fry pan. Can't wait to get it!!!

                                                      14 Replies
                                                      1. re: cosmogrrl

                                                        Anyone here know about the "Paderno" brand/line of carbon steel? It's black steel and I can get one for $24.99 at BB+B. I've also got a 20% off coupon, so it'll likely come to ~$20 total. This coupon expires tomorrow, and I'm either getting one of these or a tri-ply 10".

                                                        I'm tempted to get the tri ply and just get a cheap carbon steel from an asian grocer or ebay...or wait for a de buyer on sale....hmm. I had to leave my cast iron at my old place...loved it, but want to try carbon steel also. I'm a college student, so cheap+versatile is good :D

                                                        link: http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/produ...

                                                        1. re: DukeOfSuffolk

                                                          i bought a Paderno carbon steel skillet a few weeks ago and it has been fine. It seasoned a lot quicker than my cast iron did. It's absolutely non-stick after initial seasoning. I use it for omelets. The only thing is that it is almost as heavy as my cast iron. I thought it was supposed to be light. It isn't.

                                                          1. re: Ambimom

                                                            Steel and iron have the same density. Steel is stronger (more ductile to be specific) and can be made thinner. But thicker steel is more resistant to warping, and preferred for professional use.

                                                          2. re: DukeOfSuffolk

                                                            There appears to be two different Paderno brands. The first is called "Paderno World-Cuisine" and is made in Italy:


                                                            The second just simply goes by "Paderno" and is made in Canada:


                                                            Unfortunately, I don't really know too much about the differences between the two.

                                                            1. re: ToothTooth

                                                              Paderno World-Cuisine are made in China.


                                                              Paderno of Canada doesn't make carbon steel products.

                                                              1. re: pabboy

                                                                Its funny you mention the Paderno World-Cuisine pans being made in China. On their website, all their corporate links are to Italian websites and their product catalog specifically goes out of its way to describe and show photos of their factory in Orfengo, Novara in Italy.

                                                                1. re: ToothTooth

                                                                  Hmm... interesting. I'd buy the Paderno if I know for sure they were made in Italy. I'm Chinese and I don't trust anything Made in China.

                                                                  1. re: ToothTooth

                                                                    Regrettably, a great majority of simple metal stamping, turning and casting for mass-market consumer products is outsourced to China today. The US and Europe are still the source for delicately wrought alloys and specialty machining, but press, cutting and joining operations are 60 - 95% cheaper in any one of a dozen Asian countries.

                                                                    As for recycling, the US alone sends over 50% of its scrap steel to China for processing and value-adding - Nucor, the largest steel and plate roller in the US sells 3/4 of its cold-rolled CS in foreign markets.

                                                                    Many companies very carefully protect their European or American brand identity through web obfuscation and third-party retailing, while owing to vagaries in EU and American labeling laws it's entirely legal to stamp a pan "France" or "Italy" if the company bringing it to market is legally domiciled in those countries, even if the pan is manufactured elsewhere. If a Chinese handle is attached to an Romanian pot in Marsailles, then that pan can legally be said to be "Made in France".

                                                                    The sad truth is it's nearly impossible to tell where any part of a mass-market consumer good originates these days unless it's stated and defended unequivocally in company literature. It's possible (and profitable) to spin very little text and endow a brand with the cache of a place or period or whatever it takes to align it with popular sentiment. "Made in China" is the kiss of death today for anything having to do with food, so pains will be taken to obscure any connections, without actually breaking them, of course.

                                                                    BTW, I manufacture cookware. My desk is an open-pit mine of little factoids such as the above.

                                                                    1. re: Mac K.

                                                                      Mac K.: "BTW, I manufacture cookware."

                                                                      What kind?

                                                                      1. re: Jay F

                                                                        Jay: I can tell from Mac's writing style who he is. His company makes the finest copper cookware. Right here in USA. www.organiccookware.com.

                                                                          1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                            Thanks to you, pabboy, and Mac K. I just saw this on March 12, 2011. I'd love to have the smaller saute pan, or the large saucepan.

                                                                            I had a 3-qt. copper saucepan back in the '80s, and I was making caramel one day when a friend called to tell me one of my best friends had died of AIDS. I completely forgot the caramel and the pan, and voila, there all this smoke, the lining got all black, and blahblahblah. I never really wanted to get it re-tinned, and I eventually replaced it with stainless. I gave it away. Every time I looked at it, I thought of my friend.

                                                                            How do you best prevent tin from needing to be replaced, other than not burning caramel in it?

                                                                        1. re: Mac K.

                                                                          Is this a fact? Doesn't the law distinguish betweeen place of "manufacture" and place of "assembly"? For example, my Jotul woodstove was "manufactured" in Norway and "assembled" in Maine. I've seen many products that say "assembled in USA, imported materials."

                                                                          I DO AGREE that if the manufacturer does not matter-of-factly state that the product is made in USA that it is not. Only Lodge cast iron is made here, none of the other companies (Camp Chef - CHINA) state where they produce their goods. Thankfully, Lodge openly admits that their enameled line is imported from China.

                                                                          MACCA Dutch Ovens is a Utah foundry, and there is absolutely NOTHING on any of their websites that even hints that their stuff is now produced in India. However, their website emphasizes their history in Utah and they do still have a very large industrial casting foundary there. But, according to Chuck Wagon Supply, MACA has transfered their Dutch Oven manufacturing to India. I would NEVER purchase one of their pots if this is true, especially since they are trying to hide this fact.

                                                                          As for de Buyer, I question where their stuff is actually made as well - I only glanced at their website and it highlights their history and heritage, but from what I saw it never explicitly states "Manufactured in France." It seems to me that products that actually are produced in Europe or the USA make sure that is their key selling point - they do not make you search for such info.

                                                                          On a related note, I just came back from Vermont and I purchased some ski clothing there - all outdoor clothing is made in China, even though it costs hundreds of dollars and up, yet all the clothing tags tout it's Nordic history. Disgusting, but hey, if you need waterproof / windproof clothing you have no choice. You can still buy silk baselayers made here at least. But socks - I bought 3 pairs of socks - all made in the USA! Then, when I decided to splurge on my jacket because it fit like a dream, I had to buy a neck gator because I can't wear a scarf with the new jacket. Now, this is nothing but a fleece tube that scrunches around your neck, and I had planned on making some myself (about $1 worth of material), but I needed one then and they had one to match my new outfit. So, I looked at the "Turtle Fur" hang- tag and it states "Nested in the heart of the Green Mountains of Vermont, our family of Turtles lovingly craft softness and warmth... We hold true to our roots of creativity, innovation, quality, community...", and I said to myself "$13 to support a local Vermont company that has not outsourced its manufacturing - yes, I am willing to pay that." So, there I am all happy about my American made socks and neck warmer, and then I get back home, take off my Turtle Fur, turn it inside-out to see how it's made and there it is - the label - MADE IN CHINA!!!!!! I was FURIOUS!!! FALSE ADVERTISING!!! They fired all the happy Vermonters who were "Lovingly" making these Turtle Furs for sweatshop labor in China - just to boost the bottom-line of the owners. I am so mad because I know I am not the only person who read the big green cardboard hang-tag and purchased the neck warmer simply because I was led to believe they were made in Vermont. Honestly, if the hang-tag clearly stated that it was made in China I may have purchased it anyway, maybe not, but the story was a BIG FAT LIE of OMISSION!!! Am I to assume that the "roots of INNOVATION" actually means OUTSOURCING?!?! Even so, the "roots of Community" is obviously a flat-out LIE!

                                                                          Now, in all honestly I am partially to blame - I should have known not to judge a book by its cover. But, the actual label attached to the item does state the actual place of manufacture, even if the packaging did not. I do believe that is the law. So, if a piece of cookware is made in China is must by law at least have a sticker on it that says so, or made in France, USA etc. By law all new products must disclose where they were actually made, even if you have to search for the info.

                                                                          So, did anybody actually pay attention and notice the place of origin on either the pan itself or the box when it arrived? Just curious.

                                                                          Note that http://www.wokshop.com/HTML/products/...
                                                                          sells stainless and carbon steel woks that are Made in the USA. It doesn't name the manufacturer, but it seems worth looking into.

                                                                  2. re: DukeOfSuffolk

                                                                    I live in San Francisco and all the BB+B stores around here accept expired coupons. I save them all and bring extras with me and pass them to others in line with me.

                                                                2. Great thread.

                                                                  Could someone please link the original thread for seasoning pans? I have a carbon steel pan and need to get it ready for tailgating season. :)

                                                                  3 Replies
                                                                  1. re: BigE

                                                                    Dont know the original post, but I've had luck seasoning my carbon steel pan using a combo of a grill, oven, crisco veg shortening and bacon. I live in NYC and didn't want to leave the pan on a burner in my apartment using the appropriate technique to season it, as I wasn't too sure how much smoke and stench I would create. So when I went to my parents house, I used their grill since it was outside.
                                                                    I heated the pan over high heat for a few mins and then put in some shortening...I let it melt and then I spread it all over the inside and outside of the pan with paper towels so there was just a small, almost unnoticeable film all over it (take caution not to let your hands touch the hot shortening on the paper towel and use a good kitchen towel or pot holder to hold the hot handle). I left it on the grill for about half an hour and it turned fairly dark brown. I wiped it down, put it away.
                                                                    Back at my apartment and not wanting to use the burner that high for that long on the pan I cooked some bacon in it a few times and used the left over fat to season it in the oven (pan upside down with some foil on a lower rack to catch anything that drips for 30 -45 mins @ 350 degrees). I have also went out of my way to cook a few things that used a lot of fat in the pan (ie grilled cheese). After the grill seasoning and some seasonings in the oven along with a little cooking in the pan, it is on its way to a great patina and I am cooking omlettes with ease and no sticking with just a pat of butter.
                                                                    I found that the seasoning on the grill did the most for it. Again, you could let the pan get super hot on a burner for a while, but watch out for the smoke and lingering smell.

                                                                    1. re: dcole

                                                                      Dcole, did you not use potato skins then?

                                                                      Also, do you know if okay to have scratches in the pan, where the silver metal shows thru the darker 'coating' (?).

                                                                    2. I have chimed in many times about the love-fest I have over the deBuyer CS pans. I have the crepe pan (as well as another manufacturer's carbon steel crepe pan - and quite a few deBuyer skillets) and all I have to say is this: early morning, crepe batter ready to go, coffee. Crepes from these pans are buttery, crispy edges, and just have such a golden finish and give me a sense of well being. I make them for my family, my corgis hope for a flip, and I feel expansive and happy. Carbon steel rocks. Silly, I suppose, to feel such confidence in cookware. :-)

                                                                      41 Replies
                                                                      1. re: breadchick

                                                                        One day you should have your own carbon steel cookware store. I bet you will enjoy doing it.

                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                          Yes, CK, I think I would. Although I can tell you that my husband already thinks my kitchen looks like a kitchen store.

                                                                          Maybe I need a small storefront crepe-ery? Is there such a thing? Haha.

                                                                          1. re: breadchick

                                                                            That would be something if I understand you correctly.

                                                                            You mean you want a two-part store. The front part is a crêperie (a restaurant or a store specialize crepes), and the in the back you sell crepe cookware including carbon steel crepe pans.

                                                                            Maybe you can even sell these:


                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                              This is an amazing discussion, and I thnak all the folks who wrote in.

                                                                              Still, I have a question: I want a non-stick pan that require virtually no oil, washed easily with water (and soap if needed) and doesn't wear out after two or three years.

                                                                              No matter how careful I am, every single pan I've owned wears out its non-stick quality in about 6 months. I'm mostly cooking eggs, trying to do so with as little oil as possible. Which pan should I get?

                                                                              1. re: tkoff

                                                                                Doesn't exist. Simple as that.

                                                                                1. re: pabboy

                                                                                  Really? Bummer. What comes closest?

                                                                                  1. re: tkoff

                                                                                    When I cook eggs in my De Buyer crepe pan, I add a very little amount of butter after the pan is heated and I have GREAT non-stick results. When they're done cooking, I am able to tilt the pan and slide my (sunnside up) eggs out of the pan and onto a plate.

                                                                                    1. re: tkoff

                                                                                      Non-stick pans are like disposable razors. Once it worn, toss it or else it'll hurt you.

                                                                                      I buy cheap (under $30) but sturdy non-stick pans. Typically what's on sale that week. I only use nylon or silicon spatulas. I still use a thin coat of oil, about 1/2 of what I normally use on SS pans.

                                                                                      End of the day, I hardly ever use my non-stick since I can cook a perfectly fine egg in my SS or cast iron pans.

                                                                                      1. re: pabboy

                                                                                        Hello! I'm new to the forum (as in posting but I've read many many threads before) so just want to say hi!

                                                                                        Thanks for the info on carbon steel frying pans! I have never used one before but am now intrigued and will try to get one for my new kitchen (will have a gas BlueStar rangetop). :)

                                                                                        By the way, I have been using a set of Kenmore cookware (current landlord has them) for the last two years. They were not good at all when it comes to non-stick --> awful on omelet, until I got this trick from watching a Tyler Florence show: heat the pan until it's hot, then pour oil into the pan and coat it well. Guess what? The pan becomes non-stick instantly! For those who don't have the luxury to buy new cookware right away, this would be a trick to make whatever you have non-stick. :)

                                                                                        Happy cooking/eating!


                                                                                      2. re: tkoff

                                                                                        I agree with pabboy that what you seek for does not exist -- as far as I know. However, you have to decide which one feature you are willing to bend a bit. If you don't mind a little bit of oil, then I agree with ToothTooth and Breadchick.

                                                                                        A carbon steel pan (after seasoing) require less oil than a stainless steel pan but more oil than nonstick pan. It is relatively nonstick and it can last more than 3 years. Many people have them for 10 years. The reason is that you can regenerate the seasoning surface (nonstick surface) if it wears off. Whereas you cannot regenerate a Teflon pan.

                                                                                        On the other hand, if having little oil is the most important aspect, then you just have to use a nonstick pan, like a Teflon pan. It requires zero to very little oil for oil. It clean very easily and no skill require for maintenance, no seasoning skill is required. The only problem is that a nonstick pan cannot endure high temperture. If all you do is to fry eggs at medium heat, then a nonstick pan shold work.

                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                          Yes, it does exist, and it's called a ScanPan. Mine are about 15 years old now and they're still stick resistant.

                                                                                          But they are nowhere near as good as my son's Gen2 ScanPans. The new generation of Scanpans are amazing. I dry-fry tofu in them all the time, which has made a world of difference to the flavor of my tofu dishes these days. I make dosai in them (sort of a crepe, very thin and tasty when they don't stick, burn, and/or fall apart).

                                                                                          I wipe them out while they're still hot with a damp lint-free cloth. I don't really need to scrub them ever. I do occasionally hold the still hot pan under hot running water as recommended by the manufacturer, but they really just wipe clean.

                                                                                          His pans are going on 4 years old, have been badly mishandled in his 4 bachelor apartment (including my previous mention of having cast iron skillets stacked inside them). And they are still as nonstick as day one. They are better than any teflon I've ever seen. The pans are heavy and well-made. They hold heat well. You can (and we do) use metal utensils in them. I routinely use an Ecko flexible metal spatula to flip dosai, eggs, or the tofu. I use soap if I feel it is necessary but honestly the things wipe clean as long as you do it while they're still hot.

                                                                                          Too bad I can't get a wok like this. Scanpan makes a wok-shaped object, but like other manufacturers (Calphalon for example), the wok is far far too heavy to actually serve as a wok.

                                                                                          But for anything else - Scanpans are what you are looking for. Give them a try.

                                                                                          1. re: ZenSojourner

                                                                                            "They are better than any teflon I've ever seen"

                                                                                            Scanpans are essentiall Teflon pans, maybe better made Telfon pans, but definitely made of Teflon, they cannot endure very high heat. Maybe you cook at medium heat so your pans have lasted so long, but I don't think they will last very long in my hands. :D

                                                                                            I think your inputs are very useful for people who want a high quality Teflon pans, thanks.

                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                              They're not Teflon. Teflon is a brand owned by Dupont.

                                                                                              Scanpans are made of a composite (which includes PTFE, though not PFOA) that goes way more than skin deep, hence it doesn't matter if they get scratched.

                                                                                              They are not made of Teflon. They are made USING PTFE, but that doesn't make them Teflon, anymore than a pan made using aluminum makes it Reynold's Wrap.

                                                                                              They are rated to 500 F. Personally I don't cook at a higher heat than that. And yes, I do ROUTINELY cook at high heat and I do use these pans for that and it has not harmed them in any way.

                                                                                              Your input was based on some incorrect assumptions, but thanks anyway.

                                                                                              1. re: ZenSojourner


                                                                                                I guess legally speaking it is not Teflon because it is not made by Dupont, but scientifically, Telfon and PTFE are the same thing. You know the drug Aspirin by Bayer, don't you? Aspirin is a registered trademark of Bayer, so only Bayer can sell Aspirin. However, aspirin (with the lower case "a") refers to the generic drug and can be made by anyone. Now, what you are telling me is that Aspirin is not the same as aspirin and that a person can be allergic to Aspirin, but not apsirin?!

                                                                                                Your example of aluminum pan is not Reynolds Wrap is not accurate because these have completely different shape and for different usage. The reason an aluminum pan is not Reynolds Wrap is really because an aluminum pan is not a sheet of aluminum foil -- that is the reason. A better question should have been: is aluminum foil and Reynolds Wrap the same thing? Legally, no, but chemically they are the same thing. I cannot imagine anyone (except lawyers) will seriously say Reynolds Wrap is not aluminum foil, much like Teflon is not PTFE.

                                                                                                Teflon is PTFE. A Scanpan is a PTFE pan... As such I will argue that a Scanpan is essentially a Teflon pan. Now, if you want to say "A Scanpan is a PTFE pan, but not a Teflon pan", well that is a bit odd for my taste, but I think other readers should know that Teflon is the trademark name for PTFE and they refer to the same chemical compound.

                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics


                                                                                                  Look, the original poster has specifically said he/she does not want to use Teflon, right? That should rule out PTFE right away. If a person tells me that he/she does not want to use aluminum foil, I am not going to suggest Reynolds Wrap just because it is a trademark thing.

                                                                                                  Now, I am sure you have a great experience with Scanpan which is why I said your inputs are very helpful for others who are looking for high quality Telfon pans, but are you seriously and honestly suggesting to the original poster (who doesn't want to use Telfon) a PTFE pan? Do you truely believe that I am the one who is misleading here, as you said "Your input was based on some incorrect assumptions, but thanks anyway"

                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                    I've worked in the plastics industry for over 35 years and I own a "new" scanpan 8" fry pan. Scanpan tries really hard to make you think they are something other than PTFE, and it may be more than PTFE, but they admit there is still PTFE in the coating just no PFOA. However, Teflon is the DuPont registered brand name for the PTFE they manufacture. DuPont is a good marketing organization, too good, people tend to use Teflon and PTFE interchangably. The first DuPont trade name for Poly Amid was Nylon, that became so interchangable and broadly used, DuPont lost the registered trademark for the word Nylon, it's now called Zytel. No matter what you call it, unless you just don't want to use material made by DuPont, Teflon, PTFE, regardless of how it's made, with or without PFOAs, is still PTFE. If you want to be totally PTFE free, then Scanpan is not the answer. I use the 8" pan for weekend omlets and it works great, PTFE and all, I've never seen anything release as well as this pan, but omlets don't cook all that hot, it never sees over medium heat.

                                                                                                    Another trade name that's become part of the common vanacular is a xerographic reproduction device. No matter the brand of the equipment, everyone asks for a Xerox copy.

                                                                                                    1. re: mikie

                                                                                                      Does DuPont still used PFOA in the manufacture of their PTFE? I doubt it.

                                                                                                      Most, if not all of the concern with PFOA had to do with exposure of workers to chemical, not its (negligible) presence in consumer products.

                                                                                                      1. re: paulj

                                                                                                        I don't work for DuPont, so I can't say with any authority one way on another what their manufacturing process is today for their PTFE. You are correct, the PFOA is far more of an issue in the manufacturing process than it is in the finished product. But if you don't want Teflon (PTFE) regardless of how it's made, then this is a mute point.

                                                                                                        Unfortunately at one point in my professional life I worked for a company that had a food devision and I know at least some of the FDA/USDA regulations for food contamination. IMHO there is a lot more to worry about than eating a piece of teflon, it's really rather inert.

                                                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                                                          Paulj: Yes, the consent decree allows them to keep using PFOA until 2015.

                                                                                                        2. re: mikie

                                                                                                          ` and bandaids, and post-its, even coke.

                                                                                                          1. re: mikie

                                                                                                            Thanks Mikie. It is good know that the Scanpan is a good product. I actually have heard good things about them before. Never used one. Personally, I don't worry about Teflon or PTFE. However, I think for people who don't wish to use Teflon or are cooking at very high temperature, that they may want to know that a Scanpan has a few limitations. It is a structurally stronger pan because it has a hard ceramic-titanium rough surface. The cooking surface has microscopic high and low points which serves to protect much of the PTFE surface. However, the temperature limitation is no different than any other PTFE pan.

                                                                                                            In short, I agree with you.

                                                                                                        3. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                          haha, i mistook zen to say 'aluminum wrap' in my post below (which crossed yours). but i was essentially making the same pt and almost brought up the pharma/generic drug example too.

                                                                                                        4. re: ZenSojourner

                                                                                                          Isn't reynolds wrap basically just aluminum - but branded aluminum? (just like kleenex is for all practical purposes the sane as store branded tissues, but kleenex fortunately for them owns the leading brand)?

                                                                                                          If so, I tk Chem was fair in his assessment - whether called teflon or not, the underlying material (that might cause concern for some, not all) is the same or comparable.

                                                                                                          I know very little about teflon/non-stick, so I could be wrong.

                                                                                                      2. re: ZenSojourner

                                                                                                        Teflon = polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)
                                                                                                        Scanpan Green Tek = polytetrafluoroethylene synthesized without PFOA

                                                                                                        Polytetrafluoroethylene is polytetrafluoroethylene regardless of how it's made. How are they different?

                                                                                                        1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                          Teflon is the brand name for a PTFE based coating that does not (or has historically not) held up to much use. Hence the peeling, scraped, pans another poster mentioned. Pans identified as "Teflon" are typically coated with a thin sheet of the polymer, which tends to peel and flake off in rather large chunks and strips. Most nonstick pans don't mention "Teflon" anymore because of the bad rep these early pans earned. Most PTFE based coatings are much more durable than the early Teflon, but still not up to par compared to ScanPans.

                                                                                                          ScanPans are not coated in this manner, but do incorporate PTFE in a manner distinct from typical Teflon brand name pans with which most of us are familiar. PTFE is incorporated into a composite substance which is longer lasting, thicker, and not prone to the type of peeling and flaking we remember from those Teflon pans in the 70's.

                                                                                                          As for aspirin, Bayer is a brand name that incorporated aspirin in a formulation that was supposed to be "buffered". There were additional chemicals in Bayer that were distinct from the aspirin ingredient. Therefore it was possible to be allergic to Bayer, but not to aspirin per se. Also, it was possible to be unable to take plain aspirin but able to take Bayer because of this buffering acting to reduce stomach upset. I don't know how Bayer is formulated these days. So yes, pans that use PTFE such as Scanpans are distinct from cookware typically referred to as Teflon which has a distinct look and feel that does NOT resemble in any way a Scanpan, even though Teflon is the brand name for PTFE, simply because the manufacturing processes are different.

                                                                                                          It was my understanding that the OP objected to Teflon because of its fragility and failure to stand up to regular constant use. ScanPans don't have these problems. They said "no more Teflon", not "no more PTFE". But that's not really who I was responding to anyway, see below.

                                                                                                          As for the remarks about high-temp cooking, again, Scanpans are rated to 500 F. I don't cook at higher temps than that, in fact I doubt a conventional stove is capable of reaching higher temps than that. Don't know about anybody's fancy spensive 90 billion BTU gas ranges, but for the merely mortal among us who cook on something slightly less hot than the forges of Vulcan, I don't see that cooking temps are likely to be a problem for the vast majority of us.

                                                                                                          As I've said before, I do, in fact, cook at high temps in these pans, and have for like 20 or 25 years (in the gen 1 versions). It has had no noticeable effect on any of them. Somebody somewhere is repeating a rumor that just isn't based in fact. I've seen mention made of the high temp thing before and all I can say is that I can find no foundation for it. Like I said, they are rated to 500 F. How high do you need to cook at?

                                                                                                          What will damage these? Storing food in them. Not cleaning them soon after use. Putting them in a blast furnace would exceed the max 500 F temp recommendation as well. Actually they are allegedly (according to the website, though they've changed it AGAIN so I can't find the FAQ anymore) dishwasher safe, but I don't see any reason to put them in the dishwasher when they just wipe clean easily.

                                                                                                          Scanpans and other nonstick pans typically referred to as "Teflon" are similar in that they both utilize PTFE. They are different because they utilize the PTFE in different manufacturing processes that result in different types of cookware. Just as one piece of aluminum cookware is not the same as some other brand of aluminum cookware just because they both use aluminum. Differences in manufacturing processes is what makes one type of cookware distinct from another, and its what makes Scanpans distinct from Teflon, or Tefal, or Farberware, or Wearever, or Calphalon, all of which use PTFE in their nonstick cookware and all of which are different types and qualities of cookware.

                                                                                                          The SPECIFIC post to which I was responding asked

                                                                                                          "Still, I have a question: I want a non-stick pan that require virtually no oil, washed easily with water (and soap if needed) and doesn't wear out after two or three years.

                                                                                                          No matter how careful I am, every single pan I've owned wears out its non-stick quality in about 6 months. I'm mostly cooking eggs, trying to do so with as little oil as possible. Which pan should I get?"

                                                                                                          This poster said nothing about avoiding cookware using PTFE (or Teflon either).

                                                                                                          Several posters responded such cookware didn't exist. That's just not factual. It does, and it's made by Scanpan. My son's 2nd gen Scanpans have been beat around by him and his 4 male college age roomates for the past 4 years and I can still dry fry tofu in it with no sticking whatsoever. I take a damp cloth to the still hot pan and wipe it clean. It's well over 6 months later and its still slick. No flaking. No peeling. No problems.

                                                                                                          1. re: ZenSojourner

                                                                                                            "Teflon is the brand name for a PTFE based coating that does not (or has historically not) held up to much use."

                                                                                                            No, Teflon refers just PTFE not the processing or coating application. I worked with Teflon tape in research. It is just that:


                                                                                                            Dupont can change the processing method for PTFE without changing the name Teflon. It cannot change PTFE and still call it Telfon. Telfon refers just PFTE, not the processing method.

                                                                                                            "Most nonstick pans don't mention "Teflon" anymore because of the bad rep these early pans earned."

                                                                                                            One reason is that you can buy PTFE from another vendor at a lower price than Dupont, but you cannot call it Teflon. They bough it from another guy, and now more and more companies can make PTFE as opposed to the earlier days. Just the same reason why many people buy aspirin as opposed to Aspirin, and you see more and more people take asipirin and not Aspirin. Cheaper.

                                                                                                            "There were additional chemicals in Bayer that were distinct from the aspirin ingredient."

                                                                                                            It is unlikely a patient is allergic to formulation as oppose to the active drug. There is in fact a real term call Aspirin allergy which has to do with the active drug, not the formulation:


                                                                                                            "Scanpans are rated to 500 F."

                                                                                                            Well, the 550 F rating is simply the usual rating for Teflon/PFTA and it has nothing to do with Scapan's processing method. A simple piece of Telfon tape has a 550 F rating:


                                                                                                            " I doubt a conventional stove is capable of reaching higher temps than that"

                                                                                                            No, any conventional stove can reach above that temperature. How do you think most people do stovetop cookware seasoning. We heat it above that temperature -- even on weak and simple stoves. You would be surprised how often people cook by heating their pan up around 450-550F. Many people would heat their pans close to and above oil smoke points and refined cooking oil has 450-500 F smoke points.

                                                                                                            "Differences in manufacturing processes is what makes one type of cookware distinct from another, and its what makes Scanpans distinct from Teflon, or Tefal, or Farberware, or Wearever, or Calphalon, all of which use PTFE in their nonstick cookware and all of which are different types and qualities of cookware."

                                                                                                            I don't disagree with quality of the cookware is not dictated only by the chemicals. I am still disagreeing (like the 5 new posters here) with the idea that a PTFE pan is very different from a Teflon pan. As explain above, Teflon only refers to the chemical PTFE and has nothing to do with processing method. PTFE was first trademarked in 1945 under the name Teflon and its processing has changed since then, so the name Teflon is not associated with the processing method. Teflon was also first marketed for non-cookware usage, so the name Telfon predates any method for applying PTFE on cookware.

                                                                                                            The bullet points:
                                                                                                            1) Telfon = PTFE (legally, no, but it is the same chemical. Teflon refers only to PTFA and does not refer to the processing method or application method).
                                                                                                            2) Scanpan is a PTFE pan
                                                                                                            3) Is Scanpan a Teflon pan? Legally, no. Chemically, it is because of bullet point 1)

                                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                              None of which addresses the concerns of the poster to whom I was responding, but whatever.

                                                                                                              I repeat: What is commonly referred to as Teflon are the original pans made in the 70s that peeled and flaked at the drop of a hat. Most PTFE cookware still isn't very durable. Scanpans are different and distinct from that class of cookware.

                                                                                                              You can quibble about Teflon vs PTFE till the cows come home and it won't change the fact that Scanpans are not your typical Teflon cookware.

                                                                                                              It is actually fairly common for people to have reactions to fillers and other ingredients in medications, but that's another matter entirely.

                                                                                                              Scanpans are not Teflon as the term is used in the common vernacular as I'm sure every one who has posted here is very well aware. Teflon cookware has a bad name because of the its tendency to crack, peel and flake. Tefal used to sell itself based on the fact that it was NOT Teflon (although it actually was PTFE) in fact. I owned a Tefal pan and was very disappointed to find out it was essentially similar to pans typically labeled Teflon at the time.

                                                                                                              It's like arguing about whether or not you can call flavored gelatin "Jello" when some other manufacturer is making it. Flavored gelatin is firmly rooted in the minds of the American public as Jello, whether or not it's actually the brand Jello.

                                                                                                              In the same way, "Teflon", as applied to cookware, is at least for the foreseeable future associated with those pans from the 70s that peeled and cracked and flaked, and with the cheaper but more modern versions of PTFE cookware that do not have durable surfaces. It doesn't matter whether or not they are legally referred to as Teflon, that's what people buying cookware think of as Teflon cookware. You're knowledgeable and I'm quite sure you are very well aware of that fact. I'm willing to bet every single person who has made the argument trying to equate Scanpans to Teflon cookware are also very well aware of that fact.

                                                                                                              Scanpans are not Teflon. They have durable non-stick coating which incorporates PTFE but they are not Teflon as it is known and both feared and loved.

                                                                                                              Quibble away, but hopefully the poster to whom I was responding got some useful information regarding durable nonstick cookware, e.g., Scanpans, NOT Teflon.

                                                                                                              1. re: ZenSojourner

                                                                                                                We appreciate that you have given that us some useful information as I first replied, but Telfon is PTFE. Now, maybe in your mind Telfon means something, but for most people and for people who work with Telfon, we know it is PTFE, just that, not preparation method, not application method. Telfon refers just the chemical PTFE.

                                                                                                                I am aware how Scanpan applied their PTFE as I have written above. It is using cermaic titanium to create high and low points. Basically a micro version of what Circulon does.

                                                                                                                I am going to refer to my highlight points again, and you can tell me which point you actually disagree. The logic is very simple.

                                                                                                                1) Teflon is chemically PTFA.
                                                                                                                2) Scanpan is classified as a PTFA pan
                                                                                                                3) Scanpan is classified as a Telfon pan due to point 1) (short of legal reason)

                                                                                                                The logic is very simple. It really is:
                                                                                                                1) A = B
                                                                                                                2) C is part of B
                                                                                                                3) C is part of A due to point 1)

                                                                                                                "Scanpans are not your typical Teflon cookware."

                                                                                                                Yes, it may not be, but it is still made out of the same chemical as Teflon. My mom is not a typical woman. It does not mean she is not a woman.

                                                                                                                " Flavored gelatin is firmly rooted in the minds of the American public as Jello"

                                                                                                                Yes, and Teflon is firmly rooted in the minds as PTFE. When a peson ask for a Teflon pan, he is asking for a PTFE pan. He is not asking for a pan that peel and flake easily.

                                                                                                                "Scanpans are not Teflon as the term is used in the common vernacular."

                                                                                                                Not true. You have five people. 5 out of 5 new people (mikie, iyc_nyc, pabboy, paulj and me) disagree with your statement. So I like to think you are using an uncommon definition here, as your definition is not shared by 5 out of 5 people.

                                                                                                                "None of which addresses the concerns of the poster to whom I was responding, but whatever.... Quibble away, but hopefully the poster to whom I was responding got some useful information regarding durable nonstick cookware, e.g., Scanpans, NOT Teflon"

                                                                                                                Ha ha ha, actually if you look back up, *I* am the poster you responded to, so I like to think that my own writings does addresses "the concerns of the poster ". :)

                                                                                                                Again, I do appreciate your and Mikie's hands-on experience with the Scanpan and it is very useful for a person looking for high quality PTFE/Teflon pan. I think it is perfectly fine to say the Scanpan is a unusually high quality PTFE/Teflon, but to right out say it is not a Teflon pan, it is not scientificially correct. I do grant you that it is legally correct.

                                                                                                            2. re: ZenSojourner

                                                                                                              I think at issue here is whether or not someone is opposed to the use of a plastic coating (PTFE) or opposed to the plastic coating pealing, scratching, flaking, etc. If one is opposed to the use of a plastic coating on their cooking utensels, then it really doesn't matter if Scanpan's coating sticks or scratches or not.

                                                                                                              Teflon, DuPont's registered trade mark for PTFE, is a plastic that can be applied to a varitey of tiems to provide a non stick coating. Keep in mind, in many cases, this can be mixed with other raw materials, including other plastics, to make the coating more wear resistant. It can be applied in different ways, over different substrates, which may also inhance the adhision and wear resistance. Teflon or PTFE is only one component of a piece of coated cookware. It has nothing to do with application method, substrate, or other variations that are available from one cookware manufacturer to another. The point here is that all PTFE coatings are not created equal nor are all substrates to which the coating is applied, regardless of who manufactured the PTFE. So, from pan manufacturer to pan manufacturer, there can and are differences in performance of the coating, both in terms of release and in terms of staying power.

                                                                                                              You can only correctly use the word (term) Teflon if the PTFE was purchased from the DuPont company, any other PTFE has to be refered to as PTFE generically or by the trade name of the manufacturer, of which there are at least 3 others in the world. I think manufacturers are backing away from using the tradnames of other companies with their products.

                                                                                                              I have a Scanpan, and it works great, but I've only had it for a year and am not in a position to make a testamonial as to its longevity. I will tell you that yes, you can cook an egg with absolutely nothing but the pan and the egg in contact with each other. If you are not opposed to the chemical PTFE, then this could be an option.

                                                                                                              1. re: mikie

                                                                                                                "I think at issue here is whether or not someone is opposed to the use of a plastic coating (PTFE) or opposed to the plastic coating pealing, scratching, flaking, etc. If one is opposed to the use of a plastic coating on their cooking utensels, then it really doesn't matter if Scanpan's coating sticks or scratches or not."

                                                                                                                Now THAT I can agree with.

                                                                                                                My Gen 1 scanpans were bought within a year or two of their introduction (at least on the American market) - sometime in the 80s. I still have them, I still use them, they are still largely stick RESISTANT. They were never stick-FREE.

                                                                                                                I do cook at high temps with them. When the coil glows red, I'd say that's about as high temp as you're likely to see on a home range. It hasn't hurt them any. Under normal household use you are unlikely to be able to overheat them. I can't imagine a circumstance where that would happen. Certainly none of my cooking techniques have damaged them.

                                                                                                                My son's Gen 2 scanpans are far superior to the original product and are 4 years old. They're probably older than that in "pan" years because they were used and abused in a college-age multiple bachelor household. They're still as nonstick as the day he unpacked them.

                                                                                          2. re: breadchick

                                                                                            Breadchick, you seem super enthusiastic about Carbon Steel pans from deBuyer! Based on your posts, I am convinced that I must own one. I know there have been other threads about this, but given your success, I wanted to ask you how you seasoned it in order to get such a fabulous nonstick finish? Did you just do word-for-word according to the deBuyer website, or some other method (plus extensive use)? Do you store them with oil on them (like cast iron) or just clean with scotch/hot water and put away dry? Thanks for all the info!

                                                                                            1. re: Polina809

                                                                                              I did the initial seasoning that de Buyer recommended: the potato peel thing. It really didn't take long to get non-stick. However, I wanted to really bake on a durable finish, so I did a search for seasoning c.s. and it was suggested that I use a really thin film of oil over the inside and outside of the pan. REALLY thin. Not even enough to drip on the bottom of the stove. I put it in a pre-heated 450 degree oven for four hours and then let it cool while in the oven. That seems to work for me and didn't come out with any sticky residue. I think the really thin layer may be the key.

                                                                                              The inside did get black on the stovetop, but I wanted the whole thing black so that's why I went with the oven method. It's (well, they - I have five different pcs) slick and seems to be okay so far. I've not had a problem with rinsing with super hot water and a gentle touch with a green scrubbie if needed. Which is hardly ever.

                                                                                              When I first got them I put a little oil on them when I stored them, but I haven't since blackening them up. Plus, I use them so often that they don't get a chance to get that light rust film.

                                                                                              I have an old, well seasoned French crepe pan that I've used for over twenty years, and that's what made me curious about these pans so I went for it. Plus, the handle design is easy on my joints.

                                                                                              No regrets whatsoever! Good luck with your pan!

                                                                                              1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                Breadchick, I've wondered about the risk of grease fires when oiling the bottom of the pan. Okay to oil/season bottom of pan on a burner do you think? (I know you use an oven).

                                                                                                1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                  I don't know really, but I would imagine if it were dripping at all that there would be a real issue. Just a guess. I know that any time I use a frypan and need to dump the oil I will wipe the side down if grease drips down it and I need to put it back on the burner. Just a precaution on my part.

                                                                                            2. re: breadchick

                                                                                              Hi breadchick,

                                                                                              I just bought a deBuyer CS crepe pan and am reading all the glowing reviews. My first two tries have been dismal. I followed instructions to remove the beeswax and seasoned multiple times with good oil. Still, I am finding that I need to use as much oil to cook my dosas (South Indian crepe like pancakes) than with my stainless steel pans. Plus, there is a gritty fatty buildup on the sides of the pan, but I've only cooked dosas in them. Feeling disheartened or like I've ruined the pan...

                                                                                              1. re: macsandindianfood

                                                                                                hi macsanindianfood,
                                                                                                I own debuyer crepe pan which i use for dosas and rotis. I was also disheartened about my pan at first and was about to return it to amazon. Later I found out a way to season the pan. the trick is to use the pan for rotis and oiling the pan in between. after doing this couple of times, the pan got nicely seasoned. Now i use this pan for everything everyday. I have also steel scrubber on that, but no effect on seasoning. it works wonderful everytime. Dont get discouraged by the looks of the pan. My pan doesnt look good but works like a nonstick. Enjoy your great pan.

                                                                                                1. re: 2babymom

                                                                                                  When I make pancakes, I pour a bit of oil in the pan, and then wipe it 'dry' with a wadded paper towel. Then before each pancake, I quickly rub the pan with that oily towel.

                                                                                                    1. re: paulj

                                                                                                      Update: my pan is working perfectly, almost completely non stick and seasoned. Dosa's are looking and tasting great too, I just have to work a bit on my spreading in concentric circles technique! I've learned to use less oil and use a paper towel dipped in oil followed by cold water to cool off the pan between each dosa.

                                                                                                    2. re: 2babymom

                                                                                                      Thanks 2babymom. I have been doing just that. Possibly I'm just using too much oil. I will keep at it, I have some dosa batter fermenting now :-)

                                                                                                2. I am looking for the De Buyer carbon steel pans (not the Mineral line) but only want ones made in France. Has anyone bought from bakedeco.com--they show the De Buyer name but no where does it say where they are made.

                                                                                                  22 Replies
                                                                                                  1. re: flfoodie2

                                                                                                    I'd like to know this, too. Does anyone have this information? TIA

                                                                                                    1. re: fauchon

                                                                                                      I don't know any De Buyer pan that is not made in France. If you absolutely need to know, you can contact bakedeco.com

                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                        Even if the pan is formed and riveted in France, it does not mean that the steel was made in France (from French ore or scrap).

                                                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                                                          Here are a couple of pretty cool videos which show some of the De Buyer manufacturing proces:



                                                                                                          Strangely, the seasoning process that is detailed in the second video doesn't show the use of potato peelings during the inital seasoning.

                                                                                                          1. re: ToothTooth

                                                                                                            I bought a couple of baking potatoes purposefully for that seasoning step on my crepe pan. It's hard to say whether they helped or not. Some stuck to the pan. But, the pan has worked well for pancakes and crepes even without the smoking oil treatment that I usually give iron and steel pans.

                                                                                                            I used the flesh of the potatoes for potato pancakes.

                                                                                                    2. re: flfoodie2

                                                                                                      I recently purchased a De Buyer frying pan from the Carbone Plus product line from the good folks at BakeDeco.com. It should be noted that the BakeDeco site doesn't specifically list these pans as "Carbone Plus", instead it lists them as "heavy quality steel". The detailed description goes on to describe them as "Extra thick black steel".


                                                                                                      When the pan arrived at my home it was wearing the Carbone Plus marketing labels. The pan is clearly stamped as "Made in France".

                                                                                                      In terms of performance, I really can't tell any difference between my "Carbone Plus" fying pan and my "Mineral" crepe pan.

                                                                                                      1. re: ToothTooth

                                                                                                        Tooth, re: no difference btw carbone plus and mineral - are they equally non-stick then? The marketing around the pans seem to suggest mineral is more polished and therefore more non-stick. thanks in advance.

                                                                                                        1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                          From my experience, both the Mineral and the Carbone Plus lines seem to be equally non-stick.

                                                                                                          I've cooked scrambled eggs and sunny-side up eggs in the Mineral crepe pan with no sticking. I've also cooked potato fritters in the Carbone Plus pan and when I went to turn them over, they released perfectly with no sticking.

                                                                                                          The more highly polished Mineral line appears to be more of a bright silver color than the Carbone Plus but, ultimately, if both are well seasoned over the years, the interior surfaces of either should turn black.

                                                                                                          1. re: ToothTooth

                                                                                                            great, thanks. for some reason the carbone pluses i'm getting are split at the metal helper handles -- so i started tking i might switch out to mineral if the latter are overall higher quality. but i'll probably just stick with the carbone plus and hope the metal doesn't split more over time!

                                                                                                            1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                              You cannot return it? I don't know how serious you are talking about. If it is just hairline fracture (as thin as someone draw a penical mark across), then it is probably ok, even through I would still hate using one. If you are talking about a split or a crack which you can feel with your finger/fingernail, that sounds pretty bad to me and you should consider return it.

                                                                                                              I am serious. You expect better quality than this even for a $10 pan.

                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                Thanks Chem. I'm not explaining it well and it might sound worse than it is -- i'll try to take and load up a photo. I can return it - just seems like a pain and I started thinking it might not be a big deal. But will look fwd to getting your opinion once the photo is up!

                                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                  Okay, Chem and others -- here are photos of the cracks in the metal where the round steel handles are welded to the pans. Both pans are Carbonne Plus, one a 12" regular fry pan with a round steel helper handle and the other a 12" paella pan with two round steel handles).

                                                                                                                  Both pans have this problem, and in some instances, the second weld is 'cut off', if that makes sense.

                                                                                                                  Also, as you can see in the fourth picture, the metal is also very jagged/sharp in some areas.

                                                                                                                  Will these handles hold up? Does anyone else with the Carbonne Plus have these types of handles, and if so, do your handles have these types of cracks?

                                                                                                                  Many thanks!

                                                                                                                  1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                    Hi iyc_nyc,

                                                                                                                    It took me awhile to understand. These are the helper handle, not the long handle, right? And the left of the first three photo is the top of the pan. Here is a picture of a pan with a loop helper handle and a long handle:


                                                                                                                    I suppose these handles can hold up because helper handle do not get the same abuse as the main handles. However, these handles have extremely poor quality control. I really mean it. A $5 pan from Chinatown would have a better handle than this. The whole point of buying an expensive De Buyer pan is for the higher quality control which you did not get. I would return ithem and exchange for another set or just get the money back.

                                                                                                                    I am far from a person who demands perfection. I often buy from restaurant kitchen stores for cheap and unattractive cookware and I didn't even mind my Tanaka nakiri knife has an uneven blade. I reprofiled it and gave an excellent review. See here for proof:


                                                                                                                    However, what you showed is unaccpetable even to someone like me.

                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                      Thanks so much, Chem. These are (1) the helper handle on the conventional pan; and (2) BOTH main handles (there are only two) on the paella pan, which is basically a pan with a loop handle on each side. So on the paella pan, these are the only handles a/v - they are the ones I need to lift the pan with.

                                                                                                                      Aggh, I hate returning things (and honestly, everything I buy these days seem to have defects like this so I just started thinking that was the new standard we had to all live with). Are you sure, even with two welding spots on each side, that the cracks/poor welding will impact the function/safety/durability of the pans? Does this type of welding actually loosen over time?

                                                                                                                      Thanks so much again..

                                                                                                                      1. re: iyc_nyc


                                                                                                                        Yeah, it can be a pain to return thing, and you may have to pay for the shipping as well. Make sure you tell the store that you are returning defected pans and you are not simply returning for the sake of returning. Often the stores will pay for the shipping when defected products are being returned.

                                                                                                                        It may not impact function and safety, but they are definitely badly made. I have some pans with weld spots and they have not come loose. Still, it is a shame that you have gotten these damaged products.

                                                                                                                        1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                          It's a little hard to judge the size the handles and welds from the photos, but I think the intact welds are more than sufficient for the job. The cracks are in the ends of handles, where they don't bear any load. The handles on my enameled steel paella pans are held on with just one small rivet at end of each loop.

                                                                                                                      2. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                        I would send the pics to DeBuyer. I can't imagine any company wanting a new product or their company represented by something that looks like it spent decades in a junkyard. Carbon Steel pans are on my to get list and this has me headed in the direction of Matfer Bourgeat.

                                                                                                                        1. re: SanityRemoved

                                                                                                                          Aggh, thanks. Can folks who have the Carbonne Plus pans with welded loop handles (pguidry, toothtooth, breadchick, flfoodie2, any others --?) please comment re: whether your handles have similar cracks per my photos linked below; and also where you got your pans?

                                                                                                                          I'm willing to pay more for better quality, but haven't been able to find the paella pan or the 12" pan with helper handle anywhere else (got mine from Bakedeco, who already switched them out once with no problem). If all the de Buyer Carbone Plus loop handles have these cracks per other Chowhounders' experience, I might just stick with these. Otherwise I'll try to return and go with the mineral steel, or get from another merchant if other merchants appear to have better stock.

                                                                                                                          Many thanks!

                                                                                                                          1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                            Hmm, this isn't an issue with my carbon plus 12 inch with helper handle. After seeing your pictures, I did a double check to be sure. I bought this pan from finestcookware.com. I also checked my crepe pan, still no issue. So sorry to hear you're having problems and hope you can get them resolved soon!

                                                                                                                            Let us know what happens - thanks.

                                                                                                                            1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                                              Breadchick, many thanks for taking the time to check - that was nice of you. And sorry for the belated reply - somehow i missed this til now.

                                                                                                                              I have contacted Bakedeco and they'll be contacting the manufacturer. I can't say enough good things about Bakedeco's customer service - they are super responsive and never defensive. Will post when/if resolved for those still considering these pans.

                                                                                                            2. re: flfoodie2

                                                                                                              I originally bought my first two carbon plus fry pans from Chef's Catalog, but they only offer the mineral line now. Soo, I did a search and found this website and ordered my two additiional pans. They are exactly the same De Buyer pans as the ones I got from Chef's. Here's the site (and you may need to hold back - they have some great stuff!)


                                                                                                              I had no problem with their ordering and shipping process. Now that I've gone back to the site to get this link, I'm still drooling over the carbon plus paella pan:


                                                                                                              Sadly, it's way too heavy for my creaky joints to lift. I still love though.

                                                                                                              I've found that the potato peeling seasoning works, but what I've found at the secondary level is to put a very thin coat of veggie oil on the inside and outside of the pan. Stick it in a pre-heated oven at 400 degrees for at least two hours. The pan comes out black and the surface is durable and very non-stick.

                                                                                                              I just did a potatoe rosti for dinner and it was a pleasure to have it slide around one of these pans to a nice golden crisp.

                                                                                                              Ah, simple joys.

                                                                                                              1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                                Breadchick (and others), can you oil the bottom outside of the pan (in addition to the inside) to fully season and put on a gas stove? I.e., is there any worry of the oil creating a fire?

                                                                                                                I know you used the oven, but have noticed my pans wearing down and losing their seasoning on the bottom outside of the pan, so wanted to start oiling them before putting on the burner to use/cook with so that they automatically re-season each time I cook w them.


                                                                                                            3. This is a great thread! I've learned of two amazing this in the past week because of chowhound! These pans, and eatyourbooks.com - AMAZING! I got rid of my nonstick over two years ago and have been making do and working in my castiron pans - but I'm going to quickly get myself one of these pans, I can't wait!

                                                                                                              1. My Debuyer Carbonne plus pans were on my door step when I got home tonight. I am looking at the paella pan to. Can't wait to cook with them.

                                                                                                                50 Replies
                                                                                                                1. re: wekick

                                                                                                                  I didn't know they made a paella pan in carbon steel...i love my frying pans.

                                                                                                                  most paella pans I have seen are really lightweight (maybe the paella pan is thinner than the frying pans?) and I think purposely to help get that burnt crust "soccrat" on the bottom. I would be very interested to hear if anyone has used these pans/know about them and what they think...

                                                                                                                  1. re: dcole

                                                                                                                    If you go to the actual De Buyer website, you'll see that what finestcookware.com calls a paella pan is actually a two handled fry pan at the carbone steel thickness. If you click on the de Buyer link for their La Lyonnaise cookware, you'll see one of their pans is the traditional paella pan that seems to be sold everywhere, and it's thinner than that "paella" in carbone steel at finestcookware.com.

                                                                                                                    A bit confusing, I know.

                                                                                                                    I hate their website because we can't get some of the products that they offer. I'm lusting after the plancha grill pan in carbone steel and several other pcs.

                                                                                                                    1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                                      breadchick: thank you very much! going to contemplate that paella pan...i make a lot outside in the fall and would be curious to see the difference between that and the run of the mill super thin pan I have now. worst care scenario, it is a fry pan. to play devil's advocate with myself, I already have some cast iron skillets, carbon steel skillets, and stainless tri ply...how much cookware does one need before it starts to become a indifference (since I have limted storage space).

                                                                                                                      1. re: dcole

                                                                                                                        First, i want o thank everyone who responded to my original post (oh, way up there somewhere). I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I'm now thinker I want to try one the Mineral Steel pans by de Buyer http://www.finestcookware.com/catalog...

                                                                                                                        But what's the difference between that and this, Carbon Plus & Force Blue Steel ?


                                                                                                                        1. re: tkoff


                                                                                                                          Sure. In short, carbon plus and mineral are essentially the same thing, except that mineral has slightly better finish, better packages and advertised to be more environmental friendly. Mineral is also more expensive. Force Blue line has two distinct features. First, it is thinner, which has pros and cons. Second, it has a bluing finish, so it is more rust resistant.

                                                                                                                          Here is an old post which may be useful for you, particular I think this entry will be useful for you, click the link:


                                                                                                                          Force Blue right now has a big price reduction.

                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                            Chem, is the 'bluing finish' on the Force Blue actually blue? My new Force Blue is more dark grey/blackish.

                                                                                                                            Also, there are a number of deep large scratches that show silver underneath. Okay to use and if so, how to best minimize potential problems?


                                                                                                                            1. re: iyc_nyc


                                                                                                                              :) Actually, I have just ordered the pan, so you are the one who has the first hand experience. That said, I do have some experiences with carbon steel cookware and have numerous conversation with DeBuyer representatives. Force Blue pans are indeed closer to black than to blue as shown in this photo:


                                                                                                                              The blue refers to a chemical process called "bluing". It is a protective layer against red rusting.


                                                                                                                              I can go and on about bluing, but that is probably not what you are seeking. To answer your question, it is absolutely fine to keep using the pan. I won't even say it is a problem having large scratches. We are not really really talking about deep scratches, right? It may look deep to you, but I bet you can barely feel them when you run your fingers across them.

                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                Yep, not super deep, just that the silver is showing underneath the scratches..okay to use with the exposed metal .. and will this eventually be seasoned over?

                                                                                                                                I'm eager to hear how you like the pans!

                                                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                  Chem, sorry -- another follow-up: what made you choose blue as opposed to carbonne or mineral? I know you listed the pros/cons earlier - just curious as to what weighed into your decision.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                                    Hi iyc_nyc,

                                                                                                                                    Yes, it will seasoned right over. The Silver color is the bare steel surface. The same surface had you bought the Carbone Plus or Mineral pans.

                                                                                                                                    Why do I picked the Force Blue line? Really because it is slightly thinner. I already have a cast iron skillet which is very sturdy and has a lot of heat capacity, but it is heavy and heats up very slow. So, I was/am looking for a pan with better heat response and possibly lightly enough so I can easily handle with one hand.

                                                                                                                                    Force Blue frying pan is 2 mm thick:


                                                                                                                                    By all account 2 mm is not that thin. It is just thinner than Carbone Plus and Mineral which are 2.5 mm to 3 mm thick, depending the cookware size.

                                                                                                                                    De Buyer actually has another line, but it is less known -- the La Lyonnaise. These are the thinnest: 1 - 1.5 mm. I don't think I have seen those around.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                      Great, thanks as always for your immensely helpful and prompt responses. Maybe you should start our own cooking blog with Q&A! :-)

                                                                                                                                      . I'm going to try Carbone Plus as well, for a larger pan.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                        I contacted De Buyer about La Lyonnaise and the response is that line is not available in the States.

                                                                                                                                2. re: Chemicalkinetics


                                                                                                                                  "Force Blue right now has a big price reduction."


                                                                                                                                    1. re: pabboy


                                                                                                                                      There are also good deals on Bakedeco.com: http://www.bakedeco.com/dept.asp?id=602. Prices for De Buyer are currently much better there than on WS or FInestcookware.com.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                        Just like PaulJ said. CostPlus World Market. Selection is getting limited now. It appears Bakedeco also has good deal according to iyc_nyc.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                          I ordered one form WS. I thought you meant low prices elsewhere. Thanks for the heads up on Bakedeco though.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                            Cost Plus is cheaper than WS. This follwing pan is being sold at $20 at Cost Plus, whereas Williams Sonoma is selling at $40.


                                                                                                                                            Well, it does not matter, Cost Plus only has limited selection at this point.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                              Oops I meant WM (world market) not WS. I only window shop @ WS.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                Hi everyone,

                                                                                                                                                Just bought my Debuyer skillet http://www.worldmarket.com/product/in...

                                                                                                                                                thanks for all your help!

                                                                                                                                                1. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                  Mine is coming in today I think :)
                                                                                                                                                  If you get into problem, maybe we can help each other out. :P

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                    Got mine 2 days ago and seasoned it last night. I did a horrible job of seasoning so it's uneven and not smooth. I'm thinking of scraping it off and starting over again. The green scour pad isn't abrasive enough to remove it though. Hmmmm......

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: pabboy


                                                                                                                                                      Ok, have you seasoned a cookware before? In the case you have, then you probably know what you are talking about and you can ignore the rest of this post.

                                                                                                                                                      In the case you have not, please don't worry. The seasoning surface does not have to be super perfect. Some new users have the impression that the seasoned surface has to be a super perfect like a brand new Teflon pan. No, you go around and search for seasoned carbon steel pan and you will realize that is not what you are shooting for:


                                                                                                                                                      In time, the seasoning surface will get more even. It is tough to get all the seasoning off, and I don't see the point. If you must, you need like sandpaper, but you are going to seriously scratch the pan.

                                                                                                                                                      I also not 100% sure about your problem. Let me ask you this. Is there any gummy or sticky substance on the pan? If so, scrap these gummy substance off as well as you can and heat the pan some more on the stove until all turn hard. If the pan does not have gummy substance, then just do another seasoning to cover the entire pan. In time, the whole cooking surface will be fine.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                        Thanks ChemK!

                                                                                                                                                        I have seasoned cast iron and carbon steel wok but your pictures are enough to convince me to just continue to use it. The seasoning process really smoked up my house even though I have a heavy duty externally vented hood. I did cook a batch of home fries (gotta do something with the now skinless potatoes) which turned out great. Speaking of potatoes, the new seasoning video on the de Buyer site doesn't show boiling potato skins anymore.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                          Pabboy buddy,

                                                                                                                                                          Yes, several people mentioned the potato skin thing. I never understand the "boiling potato skin" thing because, like you, my seasoning technqiue is nothing like those videos. Keep using it, man.

                                                                                                                                                          tkoff, you and me are all going to have some fun together with this Force Blue pan. :) We have a special bond now. :D

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                            One thing I noticed was the pan comes with a layer of dark "dirt" for a lack of better word. I used detergent and sponge repeatedly to wash it and that layer was still there. Finally I gave up and just seasoned it. I figure the seasoning layer will cover up any "dirt".

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                              Hmmm, well, I will have to see it then. My pan is on its way to me. It has been shipped to my state, so I should get it today I think. Thanks for the heads-up.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                                Was the pan just a dark grey color, or did it have rough texture like sand? If just dark you may be mistaking the 'bluing'. That's a heat treatment that protects against red rust. No need to remove that.

                                                                                                                                                          2. re: Chemicalkinetics


                                                                                                                                                            Have to disagree with you there. IMO, that person did not season the pan correctly. The ouichef one looks like she has done it in the oven - which is a bad idea for carbon steel. That is what I did when I first seasoned one. I scrubbed it off with a brillo pad - took hours!

                                                                                                                                                            The pans are so smooth that if the smallest amount of oil can gather into little puddles or drip lines when it is heated and then those formations are burnt into the pan. This isnt a problem for modern non-machined cast iron as the hot oil fills the rough surface and ultimately smooths it out over repeat seasonings (my cast iron took years to go glass smooth).

                                                                                                                                                            Carbon steel is smooth when you buy it and should remain smooth as you season it. It will go light brown,brown,dark brown and then slowly to black. If you have any gummy bits you have used too much oil - don't just try and burn it in.

                                                                                                                                                            The method I use is :-

                                                                                                                                                            1) Heat up the pan (on medium heat, like you cooking bacon, not searing a steak)
                                                                                                                                                            2) Wipe lard using folded up kitchen roll into the pan and wipe away as much as you can
                                                                                                                                                            3) You should see it gently smoking,.. not billowing plumes.
                                                                                                                                                            4) You will see that even though you wiped the fat away, it will gather into tiny droplets. Wipe those away.
                                                                                                                                                            5) Keep wiping away and watching it gently smoke until the fat is looking like its burnt off and the smoking has almost stopped.
                                                                                                                                                            6) Heat off, let the pan cool a bit,wipe some lard in to lubricate and protect the pan.
                                                                                                                                                            7) Let it completely cool off.
                                                                                                                                                            8) Repeat every now and then. I sometimes do this after cooking with it. I will heat it up,bit of lard and salt,clean pan, chuck salt out, follow from step 3.

                                                                                                                                                            Be really careful with this method. Use many sheets of kitchen paper folded over and dont heat to a billowing smoke level! Open a window too.

                                                                                                                                                            Dont use fats with high smoke points. It just means you need more heat, the surface can go gummy on storage and I believe the seasoning surface is not as good,.. but that might be nonsense.

                                                                                                                                                            I have attached a picture (apologies for the quality). It is a carbonne plus pan so it started a silver colour.

                                                                                                                                                            Hope I helped someone. Don't mean to diss your methods! :-)

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Fumet

                                                                                                                                                              Your pan is a work of art! Just gorgeous...is there any fat you can use besides lard?

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: fauchon

                                                                                                                                                                Beef dripping works as well. I prefer animal fats. US folks say Crisco is good,but I don't really know what that is or how well it works.

                                                                                                                                                                BTW, when I said "Have to disagree with you there", I was disagreeing with Chem's post which listed the two web links as good seasoning of carbon steel. I just replied to the wrong thing, I think.


                                                                                                                                                                The first looks to have been done in the oven, the second looks like it has caked on food burnt into it over many years.

                                                                                                                                                                Sorry Chem,.. disagree with you! :-) I am sure the pans cook just fine like that, but it's not what people should be shooting for - and I believe its primarily the method which is at fault.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Fumet

                                                                                                                                                                  crisco is rapeseed oil if i remember correctly. A lot of people swear by this for seasoning. I prefer it for cooking due to neutral flavor and a high smoke point.

                                                                                                                                                                  Seasoning seems to be such a personal thing. I think as long as you get the results you are looking for is all that matters, regardless of fat or method. I sometimes jokingly tell people to perform a special chant while shaking chicken bones to appease the seasoning gods. :)

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: cannibal

                                                                                                                                                                    good idea! I wear a special amulet made of cats teeth when I season my pans. works for me. ymmv.

                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Fumet

                                                                                                                                                                    :) Don't be sorry to disagree with me. You made excellent points. I agree with you these pictures should not be what users shooting for and first picture is most likely from the oven seasoning method.

                                                                                                                                                                    I guess my original point to pabboy is that the seasoning does not have to be perfectly evenly black the first time around. It can be, but if it isn't, it will eventually all turn black in the long run. This has been my experience. Therefore, I think it is alright for a user to start using a pan as long as it is seasoned.

                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Fumet

                                                                                                                                                                  This is also very similar to how I seasoned my carbon steel pans. Instead of animal fat I use raw unfiltered organic flax seed oil. low smoke point and high iodine value (good polymerization) results in an excellent seasoning.

                                                                                                                                                                  I still did the potato peel thing. I had read somewhere that the starches help the carbon (burnt oil) adhere to the pan. I can not validate this with any scientific evidence, but at any rate it does seem to help clean the surface some after rubbing the peels on the surface of the pan while it's boiling.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Fumet


                                                                                                                                                                    Actually I don't even know which post you responded to me, so I have no idea which one you "diss". :) In all honesty, I don't disagree with the method you posted, so I think I do agree with you in the big picture.

                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe you disagree with the statement I made of:

                                                                                                                                                                    "Is there any gummy or sticky substance on the pan? If so, scrap these gummy substance off as well as you can and heat the pan some more on the stove until all turn hard."

                                                                                                                                                                    In my experience, it seems to work fine as long as most of the gummy substance is removed. I usually heat up the pan again and put some oil in it. As it heats up, much of the gummy substance dissolves/loosen and can be scraped off by a spatula. After that, one can dump the oil and again scrap the gummy substance again. I just won't scrap very hard especially pabboy has a Force Blue steel pan.


                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                    Thank for Fumet's correction. I re-read a post I wrote to pabboy. In it I wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    "No, you go around and search for seasoned carbon steel pan and you will realize that is not what you are shooting for:


                                                                                                                                                                    In time, the seasoning surface will get more even."

                                                                                                                                                                    Those pictures should not be what a user should shoot for. Rather, I was trying to say that a new seasoning surface is not always perfectly and evenly black. In the long run, it will be. In my opinion, a user can start using the pan as long as it is seasoned, even if it is not perfect looking. I think the above post came out confusing if not flat out wrong. Thanks for the correction.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                      Confusion cleared up! :-)

                                                                                                                                                                      I agree that a user can start using a pan even if it is not perfect looking. Cooking certain foods is a great way to get it seasoned. Sauteed potatoes work very well as only a small amount of fat is left in the pan and the flipping and tossing move the oil around and mimic the wiping with kitchen paper.

                                                                                                                                                                      I guess my point is that a pan should never at any stage of its "seasoning story" look like that ouichef picture and I blame seasoning method. Seems like we agree on that.

                                                                                                                                                                      Happy Seasoning!

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Fumet

                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for your correction. :) It is a bit embarrassing, but it is much better than me misleading people. I appreciate it.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                          you're welcome. I did think it strange, as your posts are usually "on the money".

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Fumet

                                                                                                                                                                            Fumet, I appreciate your information too. Your pan looks terrific. I've taken different approaches to seasoning - both stove top and in the oven. The main reason why I did the oven seasoning is because I couldn't figure out how to get the outside of the pan seasoned enough to prevent a rust film. I know that it's not likely to prevent all of it, but website directions recommended doing that.

                                                                                                                                                                            What does the outside of your pan look like - the burner side? Do you get much rust?

                                                                                                                                                                            Mine are pretty black, but now I'm wondering if I'll end up with problems down the road. Especially since I mentioned in my posts that this is what I did. I don't want to send anyone down the wrong path.

                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                                                                                              If it was the Blue Force line, it already had a red rust preventive coating, bluing. Also if you are consistent in drying it after washing, and storing it properly (e.g. hanging), you shouldn't get much rust on the outside.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                Looks like Chowhounders bought out the entire supply from World Market!

                                                                                                                                                                                I tried to remove the seasoning from the previous attempt to make it look like Fumet's but short of sanding it I wasn't able to make the slightest dent. So I just seasoned it a bit more. After 2 days of use it's more non-stick than my Lodge skillet which I've been using for over 5 years.

                                                                                                                                                                                All of this begs the questions why can't SS pans been seasoned? Why do I go through the trouble of cleaning them?

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                                                  stainless can be "seasoned" to a degree but if i remember correctly the surface is not as porous as carbon steel and doesn't take the seasoning as well. I'll try and back this up with some evidence when I get a chance to find my reference material and maybe throw up a link ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                                                    I had it exactly backwards. the surface is more porous and when heated the pores open up. you can somewhat season it with salt and oil but when you rinse the pan with hot water, the heat will open the pores and wash away the seasoning.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                                                      You can season a stainless steel pan, but the seasonsing surface is not stable. It get stripped off very easily.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                        So now I'm trying to figure out what to do. I've got a bunch of SS clad skillets/pans which I take great care of. Seeing how easy carbon steel are to use and maintain, should I replace the SS???? It'll definitely reduce my Bar Keepers Friend consumption!

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                                                          Ha ha ha. (laughting at the Bar Keeper's Friend comment).

                                                                                                                                                                                          I personally prefer carbon steel over stainless steel for high temperature cookware like a wok or a frying pan because carbon steel is almost nonstick and can take on very high heat. Even then, there are the advantages from stainless steel clad cokware. First, a stainless steel cladded cookware has a better heat eveniness than a carbon steel cookware. Second, the stick property from stainless steel can be advantageous when you want to make sauce from deglazing. Third, you can put stainless steel in a dishwasher (I really don't care about this part, but many do)... There are probably more reasons too. I won't throw away the stainless steel cookware just yet, if that is what you were thinking.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                                                            pabboy, I would keep SS for things with tomato sauce or wines. I am also becoming a believer of the carbon steel these days but I will still keep my AC 12 inch.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: hobbybaker

                                                                                                                                                                                              "I am also becoming a believer of the carbon steel these days "

                                                                                                                                                                                              I thought you haven't brought them yet.

                                                                                                                                            2. I admit to not reading every post but have you dismissed anodized aluminum as in the original calphalon, excellent heat idstribtion and close to non stick performance along with very good longeveity, oven proof, ease of cleanup, and tolerant of acidic foods. I don't believe you want to do an acidic food braise in iron based cookware, still you have my interest peaked and I'm going to have to try professional carbon steel cookware. (I have an everyday calphalon nonstick that was a disaster in a short time.) And how about lids, most calpalon have lids that work well.

                                                                                                                                              6 Replies
                                                                                                                                              1. re: dijon

                                                                                                                                                Here's a thread on anodized aluminum which indicates the anodized "layer" wears off over time and is not dishwasher safe:


                                                                                                                                                After 2 days I'm a carbon steel believer now. Yes I've used carbon steel woks for years but never bothered with skillets.

                                                                                                                                                When I spoke to a local chef who has worked in some top restaurants in NYC about carbon steel pans, he reached over and grabbed a handful of them to show me. He said they are essential to his cooking.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                  "After 2 days I'm a carbon steel believer now"

                                                                                                                                                  I have never seen someone get converted so quickly.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                        So, CK. I need to correct. I haven't bought any yet.

                                                                                                                                                        I have just started to read a holly bible of the carbon steel but not yet to be at the church! Do I need to step on my AC fry-pans so that I can prove I am becoming a true believer? It is so hard!!

                                                                                                                                                        It is so tempting for me to buy CS pan after reading those comments everyday. . all you guys comments are so promising. OMG another gadget in my kitchen!!

                                                                                                                                                2. Hi, for Carbone Plus owners (pguidry, breadchick, and others..), I just got a few Carbone Plus from BakeDeco.com (in addition to several Force Blue from World Market), and was hoping you can answer these questions re the Carbone Plus:

                                                                                                                                                  -- Do your pans have dark/blackish/rusty colored spots on the INSIDE of the pan where the helper handles are attached to the pan (and the two handles on the paella fry pan) -- i.e., where the rivets are attached, but on the opposite side/inside of the pan? I don't mind the aesthetics, just want to make sure mine are defective/won't cause problems down the road.
                                                                                                                                                  -- The steel handles are cracking/split on the helper handles/paella handles (but not the regular long handles of the fry pan) right where the rivets are, as thought the strain of the rivets split the metal. Anyone else have this on their pans?
                                                                                                                                                  -- Both pans unfortunately are jagged and sharp on parts of the pan edges - worse on the regular fry pan, to the extent you can't run your hand over it w/o it hurting/getting cut. Looks like they weren't manufactured that way but somehow got damaged (?). Anyone else have this?

                                                                                                                                                  Otherwise the pans look beautiful and substantial, and hopefully will be a dream to cook in,.

                                                                                                                                                  Many thanks!

                                                                                                                                                  6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                  1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                                                    Just received the 14" Carbone Plus from bakedeco.com. My pan does have the dark spots on the inside where the helper handle is attached, but no cracking on the helper handle. There are some very minor spots on the rim where it is a little rough but nothing that you can't run your finger over.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                                                      "The steel handles are cracking/split on the helper handles/paella handles"

                                                                                                                                                      I don't have the Carbone Plus, but crack/split is definitely not normal especially for a new cookware.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                                                        Hi, icy_nyc

                                                                                                                                                        Sorry to hear about some issues with your pans. I do have one with a helper handle, and yes there's dark spots where the rivets are. Normal, I assume. No cracking, though.

                                                                                                                                                        As far as the edge of the pans - all of mine are fine. No sharp edges. I don't have any of the Force Blue, so I can't give you any feedback on those.

                                                                                                                                                        Hope you can get some resolution to the edge-issue. Do you think you can sand it down with a file or steel wool? Just a thought.

                                                                                                                                                        Good luck!

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                                                                          iyc has Carbone Plus. My Force Blue has great finish. In fact, the Force Blue in fact is supposed has a slightly better finish, just like the Mineral is supposed to have a better finish than Carbone Plus. I agree with you that the tough edge issue is easy to fix. Sand paper or a file will do. That cracking on the handle does not sound right at all.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                                                                            Great, thanks to all! I will see if I can swap out due to cracking and will know the dark spots are normal and rough edges can be sanded down. Can't wait to start using them!! (with big thanks to breadchick for introducing them in the first place :-)).

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                                                              You're welcome, nyc, although I can't take credit for introducing them! :-) I purchased my first pan, and then discovered Chowhound and found others on the same bandwagon.

                                                                                                                                                              I just can't rein myself in when it comes to a good thing, I guess!

                                                                                                                                                        2. OK, lots of very informed posts here.
                                                                                                                                                          Can a seasoned steel pan handle any acidic sauces like vinegar or tomatoes?
                                                                                                                                                          I have learned to never cook acids in a very well-seasoned cast iron pan, that is a mistake. But do the De Buyer carbon and mineral steel pans have that same limitation in practical use?

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for any insights you may have.

                                                                                                                                                          2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Dan D

                                                                                                                                                            The seasoning on steel has the same limitation as the seasoning on cast iron.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Dan D

                                                                                                                                                              Like Paul J said. Maybe it is ok occasionally, but not on a regular basis.

                                                                                                                                                            2. Paul, from the de Buyer product pages on the Finest Fookware website
                                                                                                                                                              , the thickness of the "Mineral Steel" line seems to be the same as the Carbon Plus line. (2.5mm for 8"


                                                                                                                                                              From your post I thought the Carbon Plus line would be thicker. Is that the case, or what is the difference?

                                                                                                                                                              28 Replies
                                                                                                                                                              1. re: sweet100s


                                                                                                                                                                I have contacted Franek from de Buyer's export department. My original conversation with him is about the Force Blue line, but we also talked about Mineral and Carbone Plus. Yes, they should be the same thickness.

                                                                                                                                                                You may find the following link useful (an older post):


                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                  My understanding is that the de Buyer Mineral Steel and Carbon Plus lines are essentially identical except for the profile of the pans. Mineral is a traditional, steeper side, while Carbon Plus is Lyonnaise profile, a wider, gentle slope to facilitate sweeping the pan's contents onto a plate.

                                                                                                                                                                  As a result, there is more flat cooking surface area in the Mineral line for any given pan diameter in the line, compared to the same diameter pan in Carbon Plus.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Dan D

                                                                                                                                                                    You may be right about that. Thanks for alerting us.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                      Hi everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                      Well, I've had my Debuyer pan for a few weeks and wanted to let you know how it's going. I like the pan, but non-stick it ain't. I wasn't expecting Teflon, and I'm using oil, but when cooking eggs the pan always keeps a portion stuck to it. The pan cleans easily, but the non-stick aspect is not there. I seasoned the pan (potato skins, etc) before using it, but the results are not as good as using one of my old Le Cruiset iron skillets. Also, it may be a small part of the pan's finish is coming off.

                                                                                                                                                                      Has anyone had luck with this pan?


                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                        If you want a truly nonstick frying pan that does not require an extended seasoning period, I highly recommend Scanpans. I had the original ScanPans (Gen 1), mine are about 20 or 25 years old. I bought my son a set for graduation, those are about 4 years old, Gen 2's.

                                                                                                                                                                        The Gen 1s were never nonstick, only stick resistant, and mine have lasted all this time. The Gen 2s are truly nonstick and after 4 years of use (about half that time in a 4 bachelor household) they are still as slick as the day he got them. I just posted a long description of them and why I like them, how they've held up, in another thread about nonstick cookware, you can look that up if you're interested.

                                                                                                                                                                        I don't know anything about the All Clads, but I do know the Scanpans, and am very happy with them.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ZenSojourner

                                                                                                                                                                          I read your post about Scanpans, but confess I'm hesitant to get anything made with PFTE.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                            What are you worried about with PTFE? Also, the AllClad pan you are looking at does incorporate PTFE, I don't know how. The ScanPans use a composite that does not break down easily. If you're worried about outgassing, repeated tests with modern non-stick have never shown any outgassing from the modern composites. Outgassing is a problem during manufacture, not during use. The temperatures to cause the outgassing are quite high, much higher than you would find during normal use. I kept birds for years and had no problems with PTFE outgassing.

                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                          That is interesting. My DeBuyer pan acts very nonstick, more so than my cast iron pan. Here is some of our experience:


                                                                                                                                                                          What do you mean that part of the pan's finish is coming off? Do you own the Force Blue line?

                                                                                                                                                                          As for you link, that All Clad pan is a Teflon nonstick pan. I don't have experience with it.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                            I made a nice omelette in my De Buyer Mineral crepe pan just last night.

                                                                                                                                                                            1) Heated the pan to medium-low;
                                                                                                                                                                            2) Melted a little butter in the pan and let it come to a foam;
                                                                                                                                                                            3) Added scrambled eggs to the pan;
                                                                                                                                                                            4) Cooked eggs undisturbed until set;
                                                                                                                                                                            5) Added fillings, folded the omelette and cooked some more;
                                                                                                                                                                            6) Tilted the pan and slid the omelette out onto a plate == non-stick!!


                                                                                                                                                                            In using this pan to cook omelettes and crepes over the past several weeks, I have found that getting the pan pre-heated to the correct temperature (not too hot, not too cold for your food application) is pretty important in making sure you get non-stick results. I'm really loving these pans.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: ToothTooth

                                                                                                                                                                              Agree about the preheating. I guess I have never tried to put a cold egg into a cold pan and then heat it up and see what happen...

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ToothTooth

                                                                                                                                                                                Agree. For eggs I use a medium-high flame to heat up the pan first to a medium heat then add the oil. Just enough oil to coat the pan. When the oil starts to shimmer and dance I put the eggs in. They slide right out of the pan everytime.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                                                  Folks, I am heating up the pan first! I am not putting a cold egg on a cold pan and then turing up the heat :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                  I use medium heat, spray a little olive oil on the pan, let the oil get warm, then add the eggs (actually, egg whites). Results are not as good as my old cast iron skillet. It is a Force Blue Debuyer pan. Lots of sticking near the center.


                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                                    A no stick omelet in a carbon steel crepe pan that only gets used for omelets, crepes and pancakes make sense. But a deeper carbon steel pan that gets used for many things, including deglazing after frying meat, is not going to develop seasoning as fast or as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                      paulj, thanks for your insight. I am forever thinking about buying one carbon steel pan. Maybe, I should buy a crepe pan in stead of a fry-pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                      My main use of the carbon steel pan is to make omletts and sear two fish fillets. I don't think I will do deglazing for which I will use my stainless steel AC pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                      How do you think?

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                                      My cast iron pan is pretty good, but my Force Blue Debuyer pan is slightly better. I guess we have different experience then. I also have the Force Blue line. Ok, if you have the Force Blue line, then the Force Blue coating may come off a bit, I won't worry about it. No big deal. I didn't think you have the Carbone Plus or the Mineral lines, as they don't have coating.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                        Chem or others, what is that coating?

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi iyc_nyc,

                                                                                                                                                                                          The coating of Force Blue? I believe it is just bluing of the carbon steel, which means it is iron oxide.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Here is the response I received from de Buyer long ago when I asked if Force Blue steel has tungsten:

                                                                                                                                                                                          "Hello !

                                                                                                                                                                                          Our blue steel has nothing to do with this one.
                                                                                                                                                                                          The blue color is obtained during the lamination process; there are no additives.


                                                                                                                                                                                          Franck CHATELAIN
                                                                                                                                                                                          Export Dept.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Tel. +
                                                                                                                                                                                          Fax +
                                                                                                                                                                                          Skype : debuyer1"

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                            Got it - sorry you had to repost this as I'm now recognizing it. But if it's just the same metal turning a new color via some process, how can it flake off??

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: iyc_nyc

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi iyc_nyc,

                                                                                                                                                                                              If it is bluing, then the surface is magnetite, also known as black oxide. This layer can wear off. Think about it. Anodized aluminum has an oxidized layer as well (in fact more stable). Even andoized aluminum layer can wear off in time.

                                                                                                                                                                                              The few comments from Force Blue owners indicates the blue/black surface has been partially scratched off, not so much as in a piece of coating flaking off.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes, I was one of the ones who complained about the scratches! Thanks for this.

                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                                  I'll second (or third) that pre-heating is key. Also any tiny bits that were not removed from the previous session will cause sticking. When I wash the pan I pre-heat it to dry, then i use a flat turner with rounded corners (dexter russel) to scrape the surface to make sure i didn't miss any bits. Once I started doing this I got much better results from my carbon steel pans.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: cannibal

                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for all the help. Has anyone else tried the Scanpan?

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                                      I absolutely love my Scanpans. I am a pretty serious cook, and they are a joy to use. I must say, though, that they are REALLY heavy -- all the better to hold the heat on my less-than-favorable glass-top range.

                                                                                                                                                                                      I can sear a steak or make a delicate seafood sauce and everything turns out perfectly. No hot spots, ever. One other thing ---- when properly cleaned in hot water, there is no smell left in the pans at all, even when cranked back up to the highest heat. The more I use the pans, the better they seem to work. I do use the professional line ---- the stainless handles and lids are top rate.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: SheriInStLouis

                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks, Sherilin. I am looking at this site but I'm confused about the different type of Scanpans. I primarily cook eggs for breakfast, is this one of the pro pans?

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                                          Yup, that's one of the pro pans. I have the classic set. The only difference is the handles and lids, well, and the price - the pro line costs more.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: SheriInStLouis

                                                                                                                                                                                          You find them heavy? They're lighter than cast iron at least, LOL! I thought they weighed about the same as say Calphalon.

                                                                                                                                                                                          I like the metal handles on the pro line but I prefer the glass lids of the classic line. I guess it would make a difference if you ever wanted to put the pan in the oven.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Have you ever used yours in the oven, say for something like a tart tatin?

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: ZenSojourner

                                                                                                                                                                                            Lighter than cast iron doesn't say much! LOL

                                                                                                                                                                                            I have used my Scanpans in the oven --- the Dutch oven for braised roasts, and the skillets for finishing fish, etc. The pans are superb at holding heat with no hot spots, so I set the oven 25 degrees lower than I would if I were using a regular pot.

                                                                                                                                                                                            When I bought my first Scanpan, I was on the fence of pro vs. classic; I love stainless handles, but I wasn't sure about the stainless lit. Pro won ---- when the food in the pan gets hot, the glass lid fogs up, so I went with the style of the stainless.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: SheriInStLouis

                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah, "lighter than cast iron" really ISN'T saying much. I do think, however, that the weight they are at is a big part of the equation for why they hold heat well and heat evenly.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I could get a replacement lid instead of buying the whole set I guess. Then I could try the dutch oven in the oven.

                                                                                                                                                                          2. Any suggestions for where to buy the:

                                                                                                                                                                            Carbone Plus Round "lyonnaise" frypan

                                                                                                                                                                            in a size good for a 2 egg omelette?

                                                                                                                                                                            9 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: sweet100s

                                                                                                                                                                              I think a crepe pan is best for omelettes, especially the quick French kind. A 22cm is good for 2 eggs.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                I put lots of veggies in my omelettes - broccoli,etc

                                                                                                                                                                                And actually I really mean "scrambles" vs omelettes

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: sweet100s

                                                                                                                                                                                  Cost Plus World Market has a 24cm frypan in this style - deep, rounded sides. They've had it on a 50% sale a couple of times. Don't know the current status.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                    Paul J, thanks! Picked up one at Austin Cost Plus World Market! (They have 2 left + several of the crepe pan.)

                                                                                                                                                                                    For $19.95, bought the 9.5" De Buyer Force Blue skillet. Should be good for my 3-person veggie scrambles. I wish I could find the 8" Carbon Plus one for when I make a a veggie scramble for just me.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Just read the instructions for seasoning... Potato peels?? Boil for 15 minutes in the skillet? Really? What do potato peels do?

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: sweet100s

                                                                                                                                                                                      Potato peels is not part of the "new" seasoning instructions on the de Buyer website.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: pabboy

                                                                                                                                                                                        So now it is simply:

                                                                                                                                                                                        "Seasoning: preparing your frying pan
                                                                                                                                                                                        Clean the frying pan with very hot water and wipe it. Pour
                                                                                                                                                                                        one centimeter of oil in the pan and heat it for 5 minutes.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Next, thrown away the oil and wipe your pan with paper
                                                                                                                                                                                        towels .
                                                                                                                                                                                        The more the pan is used, the better the performance.
                                                                                                                                                                                        The darker it becomes the better it is for natural nonstick

                                                                                                                                                                                        That's a lot simpler than boiling potato peels. What could have been the logic behind that? Why would that season the finish ???

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sweet100s

                                                                                                                                                                                          This is what Gourmet had to say about French carbon steel pans and seasoning:

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. Wash the pan well (do not use abrasives) and dry it.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2. Generously sprinkle the bottom of the pan with coarse salt, then cover it with a half-inch layer of vegetable oil.

                                                                                                                                                                                          3. Let the pan sit at room temperature for 12 hours, then heat it over moderately low heat until the oil is very hot and just beginning to smoke.

                                                                                                                                                                                          4. Discard the oil and wipe the pan dry.

                                                                                                                                                                                          5. Only use the pan for omelets. Never wash it after using; simply wipe it out with salt and a paper towel.

                                                                                                                                                                                          I think I may try that method on mine, but as far as only use for omelets....I don't think so!

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: sumrtym

                                                                                                                                                                                            My crepe pan, used only for crepes, pancakes and omelets has a far better seasoning than the general purpose fry pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey everyone. I realize I'm a little bit late on this post, but I'm glad I came across it! I picked my first carbon steel pan up about 4 years ago at a restaurant supply store when I first decided I wanted to make crepes at home (it's a 22cm crepe pan). I can honestly say that it is my most used pan in my kitchen. I've looked all over to find de buyer skillets at an actual store rather than online and I was thrilled when I discovered a location in my hometown carrying them. My crepe pan is used for every egg related project that will fit into it and it always does an incredible job! I need the same performance for more tasks (things like pan roasted monkfish, or blackened jerk chicken with mango relish). Mmmmmm.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Does anyone know about the food release properties of the "Mineral" line compared to the classic carbon steel lines?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for any help you can give me!
                                                                                                                                                                                              Fingers crossed for Xmas!

                                                                                                                                                                            2. My first breakfast (scrambled eggs) with the 9.5" De Buyer Force Blue skillet did not go well. Lots of sticking. I did season first according to directions. At least it did clean up with salt and oil.

                                                                                                                                                                              3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: sweet100s

                                                                                                                                                                                Scrambled eggs are one of the worst foods when it comes to sticking.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: sweet100s

                                                                                                                                                                                  Like Paul said, I have tried fried eggs like sunny side up and that turns out fine on my Force Blue frying pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sweet100s

                                                                                                                                                                                    I've owned Lyonaise style pans for over 6 months now and I have made every mistake in the book - starting with incorrect seasoning - and yes, I've had sticking problems from the very beginning. I've since striped the pans and reseasoned them properly.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Recently, inspired by a video on stainless steel posted in another thread by Mr Taster, thank you Mr Taster, I've started, methodically, to analyze my sticking problem.


                                                                                                                                                                                    Although carbon steel is not stainless, nonetheless, I've applied the water test in the video to carbon steel and I am able to reproduce the mercury waterball water test identically as shown in the video. I've been heating a 12 inch diameter pan on medium heat, on a large burner, timed for 3 minutes, then apply the water test, and if correct, add a small amount of ghee (clarified butter) and watch for the legs, and then add a room temperature 3/4 inch thick large pork sirloin steak. When both sides are browned I finish in the oven. It seem to be working. It doesn't stick. I haven't yet tried eggs following the steps in the video.

                                                                                                                                                                                  2. I'm fairly new at cooking and would like some teflon free non-stick surfaces. I have an glass top electric stove. Any suggestions?

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. Hi: most people in this thread have used their carbon steel pans for eggs and other non acidic foods.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Will this pan work as a more general purpose pan? Can you sautee acidic foods in it?
                                                                                                                                                                                      Eggs, dosais, parathas, sauteeing tomoatoes or diced mangoes, paste with tamarind, etc.? Or are acidic foods a no-no?

                                                                                                                                                                                      Second, I can't find these pans on the One World Marker web site - am I searching the wrong store / site; mixing up the name of the store with another?


                                                                                                                                                                                      3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Rasam

                                                                                                                                                                                        Since carbon steel pans are uncoated, just like cast iron, they shouldn't be used to cook acidic foods. However, I've read that highly seasoned pans can be used to cook acidic pans without concern.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Get it here:


                                                                                                                                                                                        or if you want the Carbonne Plus line get it here:


                                                                                                                                                                                        Also, don't be afraid to use the search function within this thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Rasam

                                                                                                                                                                                          If you want optimal non-stick behavior, reserve the pan for things like crepes, pancakes and omelets. If you fry and then simmer foods in it, the seasoning will not be good enough for scrambled eggs - at least not for a long while.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks ToothTooth and paulj.

                                                                                                                                                                                            My search continues. I want to get a pan to replace my current non stick omelette pan, which is old and dangerous.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I used it for everything - omelettes, small dosais/uthappams, and making tomato chutney.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Did I just hasten the demise of my nonstick pan, and should I just give up the dream of using one pan for all these uses? That's what I understood from what paulj said.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I saw a very nice All Clad pan (perfect in terms of size and shape), but will I have to use a lot of oil?

                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks also for the bakeco links. I had earlier tried to follow the embedded links which led to the One World Market site, but they don't seem to have the De Buyer pans any more, alas.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. When I first started looking, I tried the Cast Iron also. Then of course the MANY Teflon brands as one member educated us on. The a set of anodized steel..but they were either too thin or the Celebs brands were too expensive. I then tried a set from my website made endorsed by Justin Wilson waterless cooking...still no luck and a set of Anodized from there...still stuck on food and/or scratched.
                                                                                                                                                                                          I then tried Cosumers Reports which recommended a set from Costco...didn't want to join and couldn't find a member friend. When I went back to CR a year or so later...I couldn't find them listed at all. So, browsing thru Sam's one day they had a Member's Mark set of 15 and 12...before I could get back the next month they phased out the 15 so I brought the 12 and later the 3 set pans. Thooughly satisfied. Must use wood or plastic and season as directed. Can cook eggs with NO grease and will wipe out with a paper towel. Once was cooking Red Beans and meat parts and the bottom got stuck (heat too high, too long). After removing the Good on top, I said ...first failure? I was going to soak it and took my plastic spoon to dig out the excess. To my suprise, it all came out with one swipe like a thick pancake. Since then my Mother acquire a Paula Dean set and they seem to work just as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                          5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: RickyP03

                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                            Just wanted to check in and say that my Scanpan seems to be working great so far, I've had it about two months. I know, it's still the honeymoon period, and I've owned a few non-stick pans that lost their non-stick qualities a few months down the line. i hope the Scanpan will be different, but for now it's working great.


                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: tkoff

                                                                                                                                                                                              Keep on hoping. Mine went downhill. It changes slowly and imperceptibly until you realize the finish has broken down and those little flakes on the surface are not food particles. If you had a video of your first experiences and compare them to your experience now, you are probably already seeing a difference. I have already gone through two scan pans and feel that they are not the way, the truth, nor the light.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: davehubert

                                                                                                                                                                                                "I have already gone through two scan pans"

                                                                                                                                                                                                In what period of time? You went through two scanpans in 1 year or went through two scanpans in 10 years?

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Probably about 6 years. I am now relying on well seasoned carbon steel pans. I hope your experience was better.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: davehubert

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I actually never own any Scanpan. (I am not tkoff). Like you I have a carbon steel pan and a carbon steel wok, also some cast iron skillet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    6 years for 2 scanpans sound ok, probably a bit better than most Teflon cookware. On the other hand, I think scapans cost a lot more, so....

                                                                                                                                                                                          2. Great thread here! I was looking to get rid of my cheapo teflon pan for eggs in favor of a carbon steel pan. Need one for eggs and one for fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                            OP said that there are different lines for different heat sources?

                                                                                                                                                                                            What line would one recommend for a glass top electric stove?

                                                                                                                                                                                            6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Kleraudio

                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm still using the Carbonne Steel pans I originally purchased. I clean them as above and wipe them with olive oil after every use.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I agree with getting a dedicated fish pan. i cooked fish twice in these and it took a while to get the smell out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm looking at some of the ceramic non-stick pans for fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: pguidry

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Carbonne Steel pans for glass top. I'll have a look at those tonight, thank you :) You'd recommend over the force blue for my glass top?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Chem, I was talking about which line of those dem CS pans :) I'll start with carbonne and go from there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Kleraudio

                                                                                                                                                                                                    For your smooth glass top, I would recommend either Mineral B or Carbonne Plus (they are essentially the same beside the beeswax).

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Kleraudio

                                                                                                                                                                                                      If your egg pan will only see moderate (never high) heat, save some green and go with the Force Blue crepe pan. It excels at eggs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      The Force Blue is 2mm thick, compared to 2.5 or 3mm (depending on pan size) for the Carbone and Mineral lines. It will warp at high heat, those won't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Great stuff Chem and Duffy. I have everything I need here, just need to get rid of the teflon egg pan and get something dedicated for fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'll look at the crepe pan for eggs, and a mineral b or carbone for fish.