Review this San Francisco Hound's List!

[OakTownHound]

Hey all,

I'm a a San Franciscan (currently in grad school in Boston) coming to the city for spring break with my wife next week. Please review my list of restaurants below and let me know:
-What I should drop from the list
-What I'm missing that NYC does better than San Francisco (and don't get me started on Boston...). There's not much ethnic food on my list... Chinese? Other Asian? Something else?

Some considerations:
-We'll be staying a few days in Brooklyn and a few days with friends up near Columbia - but we're on vacation so will likely be schlepping all over the place every day.
-As grad students, price is definitely a consideration - we might go for one splurge meal, but midrange and cheap (for New York) would be great.
-We are omnivores and like any type of food as long as it's good! Sketchy/dingy locales don't scare us.

So, here's what's on the list so far:

The Breslin and/or Spotted Pig
Co. and/or Motorino
Momofuku Noodle Bar or Ssam
(if we could snag a Ko reservation, that would be our big splurge, but unlikely!)
Locanda Verde
Rack & Soul
Lupa
Prune
Casa Mono
Degustation (possible splurge?)

And a few Brooklyn places (will I get in trouble for this?):
Franny's
DiFara's

-----
Lupa
170 Thompson Street, New York, NY 10012

Rack & Soul
258 West 109th St., New York, NY 10025

Spotted Pig
314 W 11th St, New York, NY 10014

Momofuku Noodle Bar
171 1st Ave, New York, NY 10003

Locanda Verde
377 Greenwich St, New York, NY 10013

The Breslin
20 W 29th St, New York, NY 10001

Motorino
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003

[OakTownHound]

Okay, folks, here's the semi-final plan:

Weekend Brunches:
Locanda Verde
Prune OR Belcourt

Weekday Lunches:
Eleven Madison Park
Momofuku Noodle

Dinners:
Motorino OR Co.
Franny's OR Roberta's
Rack & Soul
something ethnic - maybe Xi'an

perhaps split a shake shack burger & hit up some food carts for snacks as needed

So, have I mis-prioritized? Is anything here too duplicative? Would you swap anything out for something else? Will the two brunches (Locanda Verde, then Prune or Belcourt) be too similar - should I do something else for the other weekend lunch? I've left out Spotted Pig - big mistake?

Thanks again - I'm getting excited and hungry!

-----
Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010

Rack & Soul
258 West 109th St., New York, NY 10025

Spotted Pig
314 W 11th St, New York, NY 10014

Belcourt
84 East 4th Street, New York, NY 10003

Momofuku Noodle Bar
171 1st Ave, New York, NY 10003

Locanda Verde
377 Greenwich St, New York, NY 10013

Motorino
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003

[sugartoof]

Sounds like a lot of pizza, Is that intentional?

Sticking your upscale splurge in the lunch slot is the way to go.

I would skip Prune, and look for a brunch thread someone put together with a comprehensive list of other options. Prune isn't worth the bother.

I would add Polish/Ukranian diner for a bargain, and try Ukranian Home, or Veselka.

Shake Shack is vaguely similar to Taylor's Refresher, so if you're going to try a burger, try a real pub burger, or the Luger's burger, and don't get sucked up into the new trend of upscale fast food.

A late night trip to Juniors for cheesecake was a worthwhile suggestion.

-----
Shake Shack
Madison Ave and E 23rd St, New York, NY 10010

Veselka
144 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10003

[daveena]

I think the bread and meat at Shake Shack are of a much higher quality than the burgers at Taylor's Refresher (though I do love me some TR ahi burgers). Anyway, they're little and shouldn't take up much time, space or money. I also really liked their salted caramel frozen custard. I kind of also loved their Sysco-looking crinkle cut fries.

Did you see the Serious Eats tasting where the frozen Junior's cheesecake rated higher than the fresh? I brought some (frozen, purchased at Zabar's) home in my carry-on after my last trip and can vouch that they travel very, very well. They're shrink-wrapped, so they don't slide around, and somehow the flavor doesn't seem to suffer.

-----
Shake Shack
Madison Ave and E 23rd St, New York, NY 10010

[sugartoof]

The custard is great, and I too enjoy their fries, but the burgers are no bargain. You need to spring for a double to really have enough meat to feel like you're eating a burger, and by the time you get done, it's going to cost you close to $10 for burger and fries. I think there are better burgers, but the shack itself is a nice time when the lines aren't crazy.

I'm not so sure any of the Juniors cheesecake is fresh. I think they defrost and sell it....but nice to know the prepackaged stuff rates high. I've sent it for gifts.

[JeremyEG]

You're going to have a great food trip no matter which of these options you choose. No worries. : ) I think Franny's can be an amazing experience. Their ingredients are superb and their pastas are way underrated. My wife, who's lived in Italy on and off believes they are some of the best pastas in any of the 5 boroughs. The menu is quite seasonal though and changes frequently so I'm not sure what the current offerings looks like.
Enjoy your trip and eat well.
JeremyEG
homecooklocavore.wordpress.com

[CalJack]

Looks like a great itinerary! I'd say you'll be getting about as much fine-dining bang for your buck as NYC will allow.

Be aware that Xi'an Famous Foods offers no seating, so if you go make sure it's a nice enough day to allow for eating in one of the nearby parks (on either Essex or Chrystie/Forsyth).

Where will you be staying in Brooklyn? And will you be driving or taking public transit? Motorino and Roberta's are both in the Williamsburg/Bushwick area, while Franny's is down in Park Slope/Prospect Heights. Williamsburg isn't particularly easy to access from elsewhere in Brooklyn (though it's perhaps the most convenient BK neighborhood to get to from Manhattan), so geography may help you narrow your options.

Not all street carts are created equal, and most of the popular ones are in mid-town, so you may want to be strategic with your snacking. Or not. I'm sure a spontaneous bite or two from somewhere off the grid won't make or break your trip. Have fun! And Go A's!

-----
Motorino
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003

[sarahmilne]

Your itinerary looks great, and is clearly very carefully thought out, but I agree with sugartoof that Motorino plus Franny's/Roberta's is a lot of pizza, especially coming from SF. (I think A16 and Pizzaiolo are both just as good as Motorino. Though if you're not coming from SF but rather from Boston, you might well want to double-up. No idea what the pizza scene looks like in Boston.)

Also, I don't think Rack & Soul in ANY way merits one of your dinners. It's not bad if you have to be in the neighborhood, but even in the relatively weak neighborhood of Morningside Heights there are far better options. (Zoma for Ethiopian, Thai Market for Thai, and Krik Krak for Haitian come to mind.)

I agree with some others who've mentioned Sichuan Gourmet as a good representative of a category in which NYC is particularly strong. I like Ssam better than Noodle, but both are great. I had one of the best meals of my life at Degustation recently (as good as the one I had at Manresa, way better than the one at Coi, to give you a West Coast point of reference), and it's not even that expensive. I'd make it a serious priority.

What you are definitely missing, in terms of things NYC does particularly well, is LATIN AMERICAN FOOD. Cuban sandwiches (love Havana Chelsea and Margon), Dominican rice and beans joints (ditto, but Castillo de Jagua is also good), the Brazilian spots in Astoria, the roast suckling pig and cuchifritos in East Harlem (the amazing cuchifritos stand on the south side of 116th St between Third Ave and Lex is worth a trip from anywhere; best mofongo in the city), etc. etc. All cheap.

Oh, and Russ and Daughters for "brunch," especially if the weather's nice.

And finally: Vietnamese food around here is in general not so fabulous, but I have never had a better banh mi anywhere (and I eat them everywhere, though admittedly never in Vietnam) than the one at Saigon Bakery. In the back of a jewelry store, but definitely not a hidden secret. There are tons of posts about this place.

My two cents.

-----
Thai Market
960 Amsterdam Ave, New York, NY 10025

Rack & Soul
258 West 109th St., New York, NY 10025

Margon
136 W 46th St, New York, NY 10036

Krik Krak
844 Amsterdam Ave, New York, NY 10025

Motorino
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003

[sugartoof]

I second the suggestion of Cuban/Latin and the Russ and Daughters idea too.

I think Lan Sheng is better than Sichuan Gourmet across the street, especially for a West Coaster where the inclination is probably not to order the Szechuan dishes.

-----
Lan Sheng
60 W 39th St, New York, NY 10018

[Pookipichu]

Try:

Chinatown Brasserie for their Peking duck and dim sum.

Kee's Chocolates for chocolates

Matsugen for soba noodles

Momofuku Noodle for their fried chicken if you have a group dinner

Baohaus for their gua bao

-----
Kee's Chocolates
80 Thompson St, New York, NY 10012

Momofuku Noodle Bar
171 1st Ave, New York, NY 10003

Chinatown Brasserie
380 Lafayette St, New York, NY 10012

Matsugen
241 Church Street, New York, NY 10013

BaoHaus
137 Rivington St, New York, NY 10002

[daveena]

Heya OTH - you have a lot of my favorites listed (Motorino, M. Noodle, M.Ssam, Lupa, Prune, Casa Mono, Degustation, DiFara). Of note, I always seem to spend about $70-80 at M. Noodle, M. Ssam, Lupa, Casa Mono, and Degustation (with 2 glasses of wine, tax and tip). Obviously, you can go lower without alcohol - I think they're high value for the money, but they're not cheap. Other restaurants I've enjoyed in that price range are Perilla and Aldea.

My two cents on M. Ko - it's interesting but quirky and very expensive. Honestly, I think it's too expensive to recommend to someone on a budget - there are a lot of risky flavor combinations that may or may not work for you, and nothing feels worse than coming out of a meal $150 poorer when you know you could have had two or three more enjoyable meals for the same price. There is always the possibility that you'll love it, but I think you should save the gamble for when you're not on a budget.

I wasn't all that impressed with Spotted Pig and think it could be dropped.

I really like Motorino, but it's pretty similar in style to Pizzaiolo, so if need to make space for a meal, you could probably drop it. DiFara is a must, though.

I agree on Shake Shack (really, In 'n Out is not remotely in the same league - the quality of beef is just much, much higher at SS), and if you're staying at Columbia, you can always stop off at the UWS branch on the way to and from your friend's place. Reportedly shorter lines and more consistent cooking, plus indoor seating.

Agree with CalJack on Lanzhou Hand-Pulled Noodles and Xi'an Famous Foods - I don't think we have anything similar to either one in the Bay Area. I'm also intrigued by the gua bao at Baohaus, and by guttergourmet's description of Faicco's prosciutto bread.

Look into doing a 4-star restaurant for lunch - I highly recommend Eleven Madison Park's 2 course for $28 (or 3 courses for $42). A lot of top restaurants in NYC have great lunch deals (including Jean-Georges and Le Bernardin), so don't rule out expensive restaurants entirely.

Other faves: chocolates at Kee's, croissants at Petrossian, takoyaki at Otafuku, soba at Matsugen (noodles aren't that expensive, but it feels like a splurge because the space is so spa-like), falafel at Azuri Cafe. And there's always the halal chicken and rice cart, which I *still* haven't been to, but passed along the rec to another friend who recently went to NYC and loved it so much she ate there every day.

-----
Lupa
170 Thompson Street, New York, NY 10012

Perilla
9 Jones Street, New York, NY 10014

Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010

Casa Mono
52 Irving Place, New York, NY 10003

Shake Shack
Madison Ave and E 23rd St, New York, NY 10010

Spotted Pig
314 W 11th St, New York, NY 10014

Le Bernardin
155 W. 51st St., New York, NY 10019

Azuri Cafe
465 W 51st St, New York, NY 10019

Otafuku
236 E 9th St, New York, NY 10003

Petrossian
182 W 58th St, New York, NY 10019

Matsugen
241 Church Street, New York, NY 10013

Aldea
31 West 17th Street, New York, NY 10011

BaoHaus
137 Rivington St, New York, NY 10002

Motorino
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003

[CalJack]

Love the Perilla, Aldea, EMP and halal cart suggestions! And agreed re: ever-escalating prices at Ko.

I think the prix-fixe menus at Momofuku Noodle Bar are an outstanding value. Prices have gone down since they first started (3 course lunch menu: ~$20; 4 courses @ dinner: ~$30). Granted, it's a set menu that changes daily, so if you don't like what they're serving that day it's not a catch-all solution. Still, between one prix-fixe, an order of noodles and an order of pork buns, 2 people can get a broad sampling of Chang's versatility (the noodles being the least exciting but most-filling part of all this) for right around $25 pp before tax, tip, and drinks. The house sake is delicious and reasonable if you're into that sort of thing. Ssam bar also offers a prix-fixe at lunch, but I'm less familiar with it. Alternatively, an order of pork buns and a cup of soft-serve at Milk Bar can do the trick if you want to browse before diving in.

-----
Perilla
9 Jones Street, New York, NY 10014

Momofuku Noodle Bar
171 1st Ave, New York, NY 10003

Aldea
31 West 17th Street, New York, NY 10011

[OakTownHound]

Wow, thanks to everyone for all the detailed, well-informed advice! You have, of course, greatly complicated my life now that my list has roughly tripled in size. :) I will do my best to report back afterwards before I get re-buried in my spring semester.

[OakTownHound]

I think we might do lunch at Eleven Madison Park based on the raves I'm reading on this board. How do the prix fixe options work? I assume the 3-course is starter, main, dessert. Is the 2-course starter & main or main & dessert? Also, is there a dress code for lunch? Will I need a jacket?

-----
Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010

[RGR]

OTH,

EMP is our favorite NYC restaurant. We have been there countless times for lunch and dinner. If you do the 2 for $28 or 3 for $42 lunch, you make your selections from among the three sections of the savory menu. Dessert, which is not included in either case, is an additional $12, and you can choose from the tart cart (brought to your table), or have ice creams and/or sorbets or a plate of assorted macarons. If you want to splurge, there is a 5-course lunch Gourmand for $68 -- always sensational.

Jackets are not required at lunch or at dinner. You will see quite a few suits at lunch, i.e., business people, but very casual dress is quite acceptable.

Photos of a 3 for $42 lunch we had in December can be viewed here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11863391@N03/sets/72157622933229433/

Photos of the lunch Gourmand we had in January can be viewed here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11863391@N03/sets/72157623152781926/

http://www.elevenmadisonpark.com

You and your wife are in for a treat! Enjoy and Bon Appetit!

[NYCTechy]

Second the recommendation for EMP - it's well worthwhile to try one of Danny Meyer's sitdown places (not just Shake Shack) on a foodie visit to NYC. As a visitor-friendly alternative, the Bar Room (or the Dining Room - dressier and pricier) in The Modern allow you to chow and see art at the same time since they are colocated with MoMA in Midtown.

Also second recommendations to go elsewhere than Rack & Soul for chicken/BBQ. Harlem in the area discussed above is no scarier than the Tenderloin imo (we were in SF for 10 days last summer), so long as you keep your wits about you and don't act like an obvious 'turista'.

-----
Rack & Soul
258 West 109th St., New York, NY 10025

Shake Shack
Madison Ave and E 23rd St, New York, NY 10010

[guttergourmet]

Thanks for the mention. I like Baohaus too.
http://www.alwayshungryny.com/thought-for-food/entry/featured-restaurant-baohaus/
Xi'an Famous too.
http://www.alwayshungryny.com/thought...

-----
BaoHaus
137 Rivington St, New York, NY 10002

[foodismylife]

DiFara's everything else is gravy, go to Tiotonnos in Coney Island and also have a frank and fries at Nathan's go next door and have a jelly apple and caramel corn
Go to Junior's for cheesecake.
Go to Joe's Ginger for soup dumplings.
Go to Artichoke for a square slice
Shake Shack is good but In N Our is better.
heard Dumont Burger in Brooklyn is good as well as Corner Bistro
Go to the Chinatowns in Brooklyn and Quee
Ippudo for Ramen
Veniero's for old school italian pastries
go to Gray's papaya make sure to ask for a well done dog and papaya drink
Go to B&H for jewish style soups and potato pancakes(lightly done)\Dinosaur BBG for great wings
Take me along I will play tour guide, work for food in these desperate times
Sammy's Rumanian for a rib steak
Peter Lugers for a lunch burger or porterhouse for two

-----
Corner Bistro
331 W 4th St, New York, NY 10014

Shake Shack
Madison Ave and E 23rd St, New York, NY 10010

Veniero's
342 E 11th St, New York, NY 10003

B&H
127 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10003

Joe's Ginger
25 Pell St, New York, NY 10013

Ippudo
65 4th Ave, New York, NY 10003

[picklesister]

Looks like you're well on your way to a great weekend. Your choices are pretty much fail-safe, keeping in mind a few things:
- Breslin is brand-spankin'-new and therefore (a) uneven and (b) tough to get into.
- Most of these restaurants, particularly Casa Mono, Degustation and Lupa, get credit for "cheap eats" but are actually quite expensive by the time the bill comes.
- Your Brooklyn choices are spot-on. Franny's is solid. DiFara's is amazing - really out of the way but worth the trip. Al di La is also worth a try for great pasta. Roberta's is wonderful if you want to brave that trek as well (scratch Franny's for Roberta's if you're willing to brave the out-of-the-way neighborhood - food is equal but vibe/space is cooler at Roberta's).
- Prune is crazy-popular for brunch and very good. If you can't stand the wait (it's long) try the equally awesome but underrated Belcourt around the corner (4th St and 2nd Ave).
- Don't forget Shake Shack for amazing, cheap-as-anything burgers. Bring a magazine for the line.

-----
Lupa
170 Thompson Street, New York, NY 10012

Casa Mono
52 Irving Place, New York, NY 10003

Shake Shack
Madison Ave and E 23rd St, New York, NY 10010

Belcourt
84 East 4th Street, New York, NY 10003

The Breslin
20 W 29th St, New York, NY 10001

[princeofpork]

If you have In and Out burger in San Fran then you can skip Shake Shack.

-----
Shake Shack
Madison Ave and E 23rd St, New York, NY 10010

[ChiefHDB]

Disagree. Shake Shack provides an interesting counterpoint to In and Out. Same basic burger, but thicker, beefier patty. Definitely worth trying but don't wait an hour for it. Since you're on vacation it's probably easy for you guys to go at off hours anyway.

The rest of your list looks really good, I second Roberta's.

-----
Shake Shack
Madison Ave and E 23rd St, New York, NY 10010

[CalJack]

Shake Shack may have a thin patty, but the quality of the ingredients and the harmony they achieve are pretty damn remarkable. And I'm a huge in-n-out fan (Oakland native myself, show Fruitvale some love for me!). Order a shackburger, ask for it rare (if that's your kind of thing), and see if you can taste the difference. It's a $5 risk, and the UWS location renders the wait-time less painful, though admittedly less picturesque.

Agreed about the slow-burn hit to your wallet at places like Casa Mono and Degustation. Lupa can be done relatively cheaply if you're just in it for a plate of pasta at a Batali joint, but a multi-course meal there will add up quickly. That said, if you can't get a reservation at Ko, the Degustation 10-course tasting menu is a wonderful (and less expensive) consolation prize - they essentially created the blueprint that Ko uses, albeit from a Spanish rather than an Asian culinary starting point.

A big YES to:
- Locanda Verde (try to get a brunch reservation)
- at least one of the Momofuku restaurants
- Motorino (lunch deal is awesome, particularly in BK).
- Spotted Pig (go during off-hours if possible)

Robertas is more interesting than Franny's.
Al Di La is often dazzling, but I find the seating uncomfortably crowded. Still worth it for the food/pricepoint.

The buffet at Charles' Pan-Fried Chicken serves the same chicken you'll find at Rack and Soul for significantly less, but entails a serious adventure into the northernmost stretch of Harlem. I think prices run $11 for lunch and $15 for dinner. The neighborhood is still rough around the edges, but there's some beautiful architecture to be seen on the walk up from the UWS.

The Sichuan food scene in NYC seems to be a bit more evolved than what you'll find out west - I'd recommend Szechuan Gourmet in midtown (not the Columbus Circle branch). Check this board for exhaustive reports on what to order depending on your spice tolerance.

Other Asian options you might not find in SF: Xi'an Famous Foods (anything with cumin, stir fried noodles rather than soups), Lan Zhou Handmade Noodles (order the Fried Porkchop Soup and the pan-fried dumplings. Please), and any of the 5-for-a-dollar Chinatown dumpling houses (I prefer Prosperity Dumpling; Vanessa's offers more options but less value). And Ippudo is porky-broth nirvana, as far as I'm concerned.

Depending on how burger-and-pizza-passionate you're feeling, I'd urge you to brave the wait for dinner at Lucali in all its old-Brooklyn warmth (byob, don't miss the calzone!), and I think Dumont serves the best burger in the city that doesn't have a Black Label rating attached to it (also, crazy lardon-laden mac-&-cheese!).

Yakitori Totto and Katz's might be nice options to round out a more diverse Manhattan itinerary. Also, the Southern Indian joints you'll find in Curry Hill are worth mentioning - dosas and vegetarian thalis are a refreshing change of pace from the heavier curries I remember from my Bay Area days. Saravanaah's, Dhaba, and Tiffin Wallah are all affordable ways to sample the style if you're unfamiliar.

Have you considered adding a street cart or two amongst your destinations?

-----
Lupa
170 Thompson Street, New York, NY 10012

Saravanaas
81 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10016

Yakitori Totto
251 W 55th St, New York, NY 10019

Vanessa's Dumpling House
118 Eldridge St, New York, NY 10002

Charles' Country Pan-Fried Chicken
2837 8th Ave, New York, NY 10039

Tiffin Wallah
127 E 28th St, New York, NY 10016

Casa Mono
52 Irving Place, New York, NY 10003

Shake Shack
Madison Ave and E 23rd St, New York, NY 10010

Spotted Pig
314 W 11th St, New York, NY 10014

Degustation
239 E 5th St, New York, NY 10003

Szechuan Gourmet
21 W 39th St, New York, NY 10018

Lam Zhou Handmade Noodle
144 E Broadway, New York, NY 10002

Prosperity Dumpling
46 Eldridge St, New York, NY 10002

Dhaba
108 Lexington Avenue, New York, NY 10016

Shake Shack
366 Columbus Ave, New York, NY 10024

Locanda Verde
377 Greenwich St, New York, NY 10013

Szechuan Gourmet
244 W 56th St, New York, NY 10019

Xi'an Famous Foods
88 E Broadway, New York, NY 10002

Motorino
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003