So I went to The Keg and ordered a Manhattan...

[chowow]

For those of you that don't know, The Keg is a chain of steakhouse restaurants operated predominately in Canada with a few outposts in the United States.

Attempt #1: The waitress comes by with our drink order and proceeds to set a martini in front of me. I asked what this was (I seriously thought she put someone else's drink in front of me) and she said it was my 'Manhattan'. Without even tasting it, I asked her to take it back and to please ask the bartender put it into a rocks glass.

Attempt #2: After the liquids had been successfully transfered to a proper glass, it was now time to taste. Oh boy - this isn't good! The bartender must have shook the cocktail to death because it was a big watery mess and it had ice shards all through it.

At this point, I'm starting to get annoyed and I realize that I'll have to address the issue directly with the bartender. When I tell him that I cannot drink what he's served and that I'd like him to remake the drink for me, he tells me that what he served is their 'spec' recipe and if I would like it another way, I'd have to specify. He also said that I'd have to remember to make this special request each and every time I order it.

Attempt #3: Perfect!

My main point is, where does a restaurant get off modifying a classic cocktail so significantly without changing what they call it? I mean, if I ordered a ManhattanTini it could understand. But I didn't. I ordered a Manhattan!

[Soybomb]

Perhaps my standards are low but I generally won't order any classic cocktails at a place that is say $50 or less a plate. Lets face it, the classic cocktails aren't popular anymore in the day of super premium vodkas that get used to make some tini creation. You'll need a better bartender to make the classics. I've found places that don't have tonic at all. I've been in places where I wouldn't even ask them to make me a martini because I'm sure the vermouth is long gone, at least assuming they knew how to leave any in the glass in the first place. I'd get a beer, bourbon and coke, or a shot of wild turkey and be done with it. Squabbling over a cocktail glass instead of a rocks glass? Accuracy aside, not worth the hassle in such an establishment.

Hopefully one day "real" cocktails will make a comeback, until then I don't know that you can expect an average chain restaurant bartender to be able to make them. If you're daring, specifiy when you order.

[tommy]

50 USD?

[JonParker]

Soybomb, I feel your pain. Even your price point is not enough though -- one of my recent ice crystal filled Sapphire (my default when they don't have anything really good) martinis was at one of the best places around here, where $50 won't even get you seated.

I told the bartender that I actually wanted vermouth in it and he said "oh. I'm glad you told me that." Sigh.

[Soybomb]

I suspected that was an iffy figure, although I have found a couple places at $25 that do have better bartenders too. Its a gamble no matter what for certain, but if you go into a generic chain restaurant and expect the cute girl behind the bar to know how to make anything close to a classic cocktail, you're asking for trouble. Remember that to most people a martini these days is cold vodka with an olive.

[junescook]

Hey, maybe I'm just old, but I'd think that making a Manhattan (rye, vermouth bitters and a cherry) or a Martini (gin, vermouth and olive) would be to bartending as an omelet is to culinary.

[Up With Olives]

Junescook: If that were only so.

I actually had trouble with a bartender the other day who was livid because I wanted my Martini with vermouth -- that she kept insisting on pouring down the drain after she swirled the glass. I'd even ordered it "NOT DRY" ; "wet" seems to confuse everyone and I've had some bartenders who just left it in the shaker with the ice and walk ed away.

[junescook]

You know, if I want gin I'll order gin, if I want a martini I'll order a martini.

[jgg13]

Too many bartenders these days seem to think that a manhattan is the same thing as a modern martini but with whiskey of some sort instead of the vodka they normally use (I find that those that would assume a gin martini know what they're doing anyways). I've had too many attempts where they would do something like a) use dry vermouth or b) use the same lack of vermouth that modern bartenders like to use these days

[JonParker]

I'm very specific when ordering a martini about the brand of gin and the fact that I actually want vermouth in it. Now if bartenders would stop shaking my drinks I'd be fine.

[tommy]

a single line from a James Bond movie essentially changed the course of cocktail making in the US (and perhaps elsewhere as well).

i think many bars don't even have spoons.

[yarm]

Many bars just don't want to take the time to use a spoon.

And most customers at those establishments don't seem to care.

[davis_sq_pro]

Unfortunately, it's not just the customers. To quote a bartender at Seattle restaurant Sazerac, when I inquired about her technique after she hastily shook my sazerac, strained it into a martini glass, and didn't bother with a twist:

"Well there are *lots* of ways to make this drink. This is how we make them here!"

*sigh*

[JMF]

Damn! You'd think that in a restaurant named Sazerac, they would actually know how to make and serve one properly.

[tommy]

you are correct. the expectations of customers has surely influenced the bars. people started saying "shaken not stirred", and here we are.

[JonParker]

A few weeks ago I took my girlfriend to what is widely considered to be the best restaurant in Baltimore, with inventive and near perfect food. But in the bar beforehand, I received a shaken martini with ice shards. It's bad bartending and simply wrong.

Oh, and when I told the bartender that I wanted to be able to taste the vermouth in it, he said seriously "oh, thanks for telling me that."

I'm not a huge wine fan, so I end up having beer with dinner quite a bit.

[raider]

JP, i'm confused about the "shaken" issue. i'm a regular martini drinker. make them at home, have one every time i go t a nice restaurant. in all the years i've been drinking them, i've never seen one stirred. i know some people prefer stirred, but isn't shaken the default method? and if cubes are used in a shaken martini, rather than chipped ice, shards are rare.

[yarm]

If the bartender is not producing shards of ice and tons of bubbles, his shake is pretty weak. A drink can be double strained (secondary straining through a tea strainer) to catch the shards, but the bubbles will still be there.

And shaken is the default method -- especially since the average bar does not have good bartending skills -- but it is still not the correct method. Shaking is quicker and the average consumer (and bartender) doesn't know any better.

[raider]

then i guess i need to buy stirring equipment and try it that way. how long is a proper stir?

[JonParker]

What yarm said. You want a drink that is clear, not cloudy. I usually stir for at least 60-90 seconds. The idea is to get the drink cold and somewhat diluted by the melting ice, but not cause it to cloud up and break the ice into crystals. Even if you don't taste floating shards, the cloudiness of the drink shows that you've broken the ice up in the drink rather than dissolving it.

In general the rule is that for a clear drink, one made with nothing but liquor or possibly water, you should stir. If you're adding juice or egg whites or something of that nature, you should shake. James Bond was simply wrong, but two generations have grown up thinking that because he wanted it that way, that was the way to do it.

[yarm]

Proper stirring equipment would be a bar spoon, although selection of barspoon (wide vs. small bowl) is a preference. Wide allows for use in measuring (some bowls are 1/8th oz and others are much smaller) in certain recipes. Small ones move through the ice better but are useless for measuring. Luckily, they're cheap ($3-5 each unless you get something upscale) so getting one of each to start is an option.

Before you invest, you can stir with chopsticks or other implements (butter knife?).

If you're lazy and have a cobbler shaker, you can put on the cap and lid and swirl the contents and strain (I guess you could do it with a Boston Shaker as well, but it needs to be covered). I wouldn't want to see my bartender do this, but I have no problem doing it at home when bartending for myself.

[raider]

thanks for the info.

[will47]

@raider You can find information on when to shake and when to stir online, but since no one mentioned it here... the general rule is that drinks involving fruit, egg (or cream) should be shaken, and drinks that are only spirits should be stirred.

http://www.chow.com/stories/11942

The exact amount of time depends on the type (and wetness) of the ice, and how cold your mixing glass is to start with. I sometimes use a frozen mixing glass, which gets the drink very cold, but you then have to stir for a really long time to get the right dilution. Using a large, heavy, mixing glass, and a mixture of large cubes of lump ice, plus a few gently cracked lumps seems to work pretty well for me. A lot of bartenders will do an initial stir, let the drink rest for a while (usually while they do something else), and then stir some more. This also helps get it really cold.

The Japanese bartenders often seem to chill the glass with some water and ice, dump the water through the strainer, and then use the same ice. This seems to result in a decent drink, but I'm not sure if it's ideal (I'm sure they have a reason for doing it, though -- maybe to make the drink dilute faster?)

I would recommend a heavy Japanese or German mixing glass rather than just a standard pint glass or shaker tin, and the Japanese barspoons are head and shoulders above everything else. Mud Puddle / Cocktail Kingdom has a great selection of both.

[JMF]

yeah, you lost me with point #1 as well. What do you think a Manhattan is, specifically?

[chowow]

The glass issue is definitely a preference and I understand a cocktail glass is the most authentic vessel, but my shock was more so caused by the novelty of the cocktail glass they used. The size was ridiculous! Apologies for not being more clear.

My specification was for a 3:2 ratio of rye to sweet vermouth, with a dash of bitters if they had any, stirred over ice and served in a rocks glass with a cherry garnish. It was perfect in the sense that it tasted a million times better than the original.

[jerryc123]

Personally, whenever I am pulled, kicking-and-screaming, into a chain restaurant, I usually order a beer. Asking for a cocktail in a TGI McFunsters type of joint is just ASKING for trouble.

[EvergreenDan]

Ditto. Ate at Chili's last night. My friend ordered a Margarita and I a Harpoon IPA (on tap). Both came in the same glassware -- a mug. I can only imagine what a Manhattan would have been.

[jquinnjr]

I'm certainly not going to try to argue a point of taste, but if they served me the drink you wanted, I would have sent it back instantly. Admittedly, I do normally order a DRY manhattan with a twist, which does make a difference.

I want it made very similarly to a dry martini. Swirl some dry vermouth around the chilled glass, fill with shaken rye (bourbon is less authentic, but also good) and garnish with a twist. Bitters are also authentic, I concede, but I actually prefer it without.

In most places near me, if I'm not VERY specific, I get the kind of thing you want...

[davis_sq_pro]

So in other words you want a glass of shaken rye. Why don't you just ask for that? A "dry Manhattan" is a Manhattan made with dry vermouth, in the usual proportions--i.e., a lot more than the "swirl" that you seem interested in, which I doubt you can even detect against a spirit as robust as rye. There's a reason you're having to be "VERY specific"--you're not ordering the drink you actually want.

[JMF]

Yes, I agree.

[ted]

Also, good luck getting rye in a chain restaurant at all. Maybe Canadian Club.

[buttertart]

Canadian whiskey is rye-based so a Canadian chain restaurant with a bar would have it.

[JMF]

Actually that's a myth about Canadian whiskey being rye based. Most bourbon has more rye in it than Canadian rye. As a matter of fact a Canadian whiskey can be labeled Canadian Rye Whiskey, and have absoultely no rye in it at all.

[buttertart]

Oh really? Don't people still call it rye in casual conversation? They certainjy did when I was growing up. (A Wiser's 18-yr-old for me please.)

[JMF]

Those who do, I tend to correct. I've been questioned as to the facts, and then I show them the definition of standards for Canadian "rye" whiskey. As an additional matter of fact, Canadian Rye Whiskey usually has less than 10% straight whiskey in it and is a blend of all kinds of different whiskey, and a very large portion of flavorless neutral grain spirits (Imagine high proof vodka). It wouldn't even be allowed to be called whiskey if made in the US.

[buttertart]

I see. Good to know.

[Up With Olives]

In many restaurants (NYC and elsewhere) I've asked if they have rye and they say they do: Canadian Club or Seagrams 7. While this isn't exactly what I had in mind, and I acknowledge it is a leftover from another era, I found many years back that Seagrams 7 makes the best Manhattan if you can't get rye rye.

[EvergreenDan]

The existing understood meaning of rye, at least for who've reached middle age, is at odds with today's high-quality rye whiskeys. From a marketing perspective, it's very hard to build quality equity in a term associated with a low-end product, as this thread shows.

The fish industry seems to be good at renaming fish species to have better appeal. Dolphin sounds like you're eating Flipper? Rename it Mahi Mahi.

Maybe there's a lesson for US distillers....

[hsk]

Mahi-mahi is NOT dolphin (a mammal), it's dolphinfish and unrelated.

[EvergreenDan]

Um, that was my point.

American "straight" rye is unrelated to Canadian Club.

[tommy]

you were suggesting that something be renamed to have more appeal, and used dolphin as an example. however, 'dolphin' refers to a mammal, whereas the fish that was renamed, dolphinfish, is a fish.

however, i suspect it was renamed because most people don't know that, and in fact many still think that mahi mahi is flipper.

[jgg13]

Your description, minus the rocks glass is exactly what I'd expect if I ordered a manhattan, with the exception of old guy bartenders where I'd not be put off by canadian whiskey. If it came in a rocks glass w/o me being asked, I'd understand, but I would expect that it be served in a cocktail glass.

When I was reading your post and saw what you initially wrote, I thought you meant that they literally brought you a martini. Then I realized that you were doing the hwole thing of conflating "martini" and "cocktail"

[yarm]

Honestly, I would never expect a waiter/waitress to remember all of that (and perhaps not even the bartender to catch all of that). Especially along with all of the other drink orders. If I'm not speaking directly to the bartender, I keep it simple. Which sometimes means ordering a beer or wine if their cocktail menu is lacking. Waiters are only trained to know the intricacies of cocktails at high end restaurants around here.

[davis_sq_pro]

What is the specification that you asked for with Attempt #3?

[white light]

You lost me with #1.

A Manhattan is typically served in a cocktail glass as far as I know.