Fish ceviche with orange instead of lemon?

[loukoumades]

Do you think there's enough acid in orange to use it to marinade fish for a ceviche instead of lemon or lime?
I've got to create a recipe with a set list of ingredients for a competition, lemon isn't one of them, but orange is. I've also got soy sauce, which maybe could help "cook" the fish?

[ChristinaMason]

My google searches aren't turning up any recipes with only orange juice, so my guess is no. You need more acid.

[epabella]

oranges have as much acid as lemons but they also contain alot of sugar - if you are determined, then use unripe oranges. you can also use limes if you're avoiding lemons in your recipe.

sparingly use the soy sauce to enhance the flavors of your ceviche, don't try to "COOK the fish" with it because you can't - it'll just overpower the delicate flavors of the fish.

[loukoumades]

thanks epabella, that gives me an idea, what about if I used seville oranges, they're more sour aren't they?
It's for a competition, I'm only allowed to use certain ingredients. Lemon and lime aren't on the list, only oranges.

[epabella]

to be honest, i haven't had a seville orange yet, would that be similar to valencia oranges from spain? most we get here in the philippines are mandarins and the ponkan variety from china; and our own native dalanghita.

theoretically, any citrus would work but you should really go by taste. ask a friend or two to help and make 3 or 4 small batches with different oranges and see which you like best via blind testing (you don't reveal which orange you used till everyone has chosen their favorite).

also, i think we'll be able to give better suggestions if you post the parameters of the competition, good luck and i hope you win.

[loukoumades]

Thanks. Seville oranges are also called bitter oranges. They're really sour, and are usually made into marmelade.
The competition is I have to create a dish using all of a set list of ingredients, and nothing else. I didn't want to post the full list I have to use, because I'm guessing people on here will be able to give me lots of suggestions which are far better than anything I'd be able to come up with myself and I don't want to cheat :)

[carswell]

Seville oranges make great ceviche. Along with Meyer lemons, they're probably my favourite citrus for the dish (not that I have anything against limes, mind you). If you use regular oranges, you'll need to cut the sweetness with some lemon juice.

[Cherylptw]

Since you can't use lemons, I'm going to assume you can't use limes either which is normally used in a ceviche ( Mostly) Keep in mind that in actuality, fish can be eaten raw (it needs to be super fresh) ...that is without "cooking" with the orange, so yes, you can use an orange but if you could get some type of mild vinegar like rice, white wine or champagne vinegar, it'll add the extra acid to help break the fish down. Good luck with the competition!

[wattacetti]

Well, depending on how much time the fish can stay in the juice, one alternative is to prepare a tiradito rather than straight-out ceviche. Major difference is how one slices the fish (tiradito similar to sashimi). I've done this successfully with a combination of blood orange and seville, both of which add that tartness.

Not sure about adding another vinegar since that can muddy the taste if the wrong combination is used.

[loukoumades]

I like your idea. I've got seville and blood oranges, so that would work.
I had a quick google of tiradito. Some sites say a difference with ceviche is that with tiradito you don't marinade the fish for as long. Is that right?

[wattacetti]

You don't need to marinate the fish as long because it's sliced thinly like sashimi. You'll probably want to show off your knife skills for this one.

Also tiradito classically made with fish, lime (or in your case orange), salt, chile.

[Cherylptw]

It's true not all vinegars go well with just any ingredients but those that I posted are mild and blend well with other ingredients, especially the rice & champagne vinegars which enhances but not detract from the dish.

[EWSflash]

Just an aside here, adding vinegar would completely ruin the flavor for me. It would then be pickled fish.

Seville oranges are really good in seviche, but I think that it also needs some lemon. Others may disagree but I don't really care for the taste of Seville orange and lime together.

[lexpatti]

why not do a tartare or carpaccio (if the fish is sushi grade) - this might help! Sounds fun, you will have to report back with more of the details:
http://chef2chef.net/learn-to-cook/pr...

[EricMM]

I always do cevivhe in a mix of orange and lime juice.

[1lmichele]

How about an Italian crudo. The fish is sashimi style with olive oil and the juice of your orange. Instead of sea salt, maybe grind some pine nuts, toss with soy sauce and roast. That will give the salty crunch on traditional crudo.

[Emme]

Here;s a ceviche that doesn't use juice: http://www.cooking-italian-food.com/ceviche_recipe.htm Not sure exactly the ingredients on your list.

And in case you're open to raw, non-ceviche, here's an interesting recipe with orange... http://starchefs.com/features/ceviche...

[loukoumades]

thanks for all the ideas. I experimented with a mix of blood and seville orange yesterday. It tastes very good but the blood orange has turned the fish a little pink, which isn't visually too appealing.

[wattacetti]

You want lightly-tinted Tarocco blood oranges (cut a few to find out how much red is present). Don't use Moro blood oranges, they have a musky taste which will interfere and are considerably darker inside (sometimes purple-ish).

I'm with some of the others: what kind of competition is this?

[loukoumades]

Thanks for the advice. I wish I'd read it earlier. I used the dark red type, which turned my fish purple and not very unattractive. So I started over with seville oranges, which worked much better.

The competition was people nominate ingredients one by one. When you reach 10, you stop. Then you have to create a recipe using all 10 ingredients (plus a couple of optional givens: butter, oil, cream, salt, pepper, water).

Our ingredients were:
sea bass
orange
fennel
rice
soy sauce
ginger
garlic
vanilla
sugar
chilli

This was my recipe:
http://www.lacuillere.com/recettes/77003-Tiradito-ceviche-peruvien-de-loup-de
I won!

These were the other entries:
http://www.lacuillere.com/articles/12...

[wattacetti]

Well congratulations are certainly in order! Nice that you laid the beat-down on your competitors.

I can see why yours stood out as the others are more "classical" (European) in their approach, even with the Asian ingredient requirement.

[cowboyardee]

Another option, if anyone cares to experiment: Malic acid. It is the acid isolated from apples and it can up the acidity of a solution or foodstuff with minimal effect on the taste beyond increasing sourness. Heston Blumenthal (of Fat Duck fame) uses it and that's how I heard of it.
http://www.amazon.com/GS-Nutrients-Pu...

Personally, I would try seville oranges first (sounds like a great idea), but if that didn't get the results I wanted and the recipe hit a brick wall, malic acid might make for an excellent sledgehammer solution.

[scubadoo97]

regular oragnes with a pinch of citric acid would also do to increase the acidity.

[wattacetti]

And I just happen to have some malic acid. Worth a try when I get back.

[cowboyardee]

Please report back when you do. Shamefully, I am passing on this recommendation without having tried it myself yet.