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Yelp was more accurate than Jonathan Gold (or, pigs fly at Mandarin House in Koreatown)

Mr Taster Feb 26, 2010 09:03 AM

Saw the "99 things to eat in LA before you die" article in LA Weekly.

http://www.laweekly.com/2010-02-26/ea...

This grabbed my attention:
"...cha chiang mein, hand-pulled noodles in a dense, black sauce of fermented beans and pork, is out of this world. Mandarin House, 3074 W. Eighth St., Koreatown. (213) 386-8976."

We've never tried Korean Chinese food, and hand pulled noodles close to our home clinched the deal.

We ordered $7.80 wor wonton (50 cents more than standard wonton soup-- we asked "what's the difference?" Answer: wor wonton has seafood in it), mixed veggies (about $8) and cha chiang mian with meat (also about $8)

The only panchan served was a small plate of kimchi. Oddly sweet, but really delicious. When the server saw that we finished the plate, she brought out a much bigger plate the second time. I think we passed the test.

The soup was fine. Huge bowl, clear and clean, and a little sweet (likely from the artificial crabmeat. Nothing extraordinary. Likewise with the mixed veggies-- standard cornstarch thickened pan fried veggies.... broccoli, water chestnuts, peapods, etc.

And now, the cha chiang mian. I went to Yelp only because I was unable to find any substantive information from Chowhound on Mandarin House in Koreatown. Several yelpers commented that the cha chiang mian used to be fantastic, but lately it has suffered from a lack of flavor. Well, clearly Jgold had visited recently... he wouldn't have printed specious information without current first hand data, right?

We were served two bowls.... a smallish bowl of very nice looking hand pulled noodles (unsauced) and a GIGANTIC bowl of the black and bubbly, bumpy and lumpy cha chiang sauce. Like, an absurd amount of sauce for that quantity of noodles. After finishing all the noodles, the bowl of sauce was still filled nearly to the brim.

Also, the sauce *looked* like it should reek unctious flavor. It was deeply black, with little lumps of onions and whatever else (ostensibly, meat). We ladled a generous amount onto each of our bowls and took a bite. I don't know how they did it, but it tasted like thickened water, flavored with black beans and onions. Meat wasn't detectable at all. The noodles themselves were nice... a little too soft, but chewy enough, and fresh. But my Lovely Tasting Assistant (LTA) and I came away baffled... how in the world can you remove virtually all of the flavor from a bowl of viscous, black sauce?? I've never experienced anything quite so odd.

Any other experiences at Mandarin House that other hounds with like to share?

Mr Taster

  1. a_and_w Feb 26, 2010 09:35 AM

    Ja jang myun sauce should be thicker than water and taste salty with hint of sweetness. It really shouldn't reek at all. When I was a kid, it reminded me a bit of plum sauce. I haven't tried Mandarin House, but I recall Dragon Restaurant doing a decent version. You might also try tan-soo-yuk (sweet and sour beef and pork) and gampong chicken (spicy and sweet chicken wings). Generally speaking, anything fried or with noodles will be decent at a Korean-Chinese place.

    14 Replies
    1. re: a_and_w
      Mr Taster Feb 26, 2010 10:50 AM

      My LTA and I are quite familiar with the Chinese versions of this dish, but we are completely unfamiliar with the Korean incarnation. Please note that I did not invoke water as a textural comparison. This sauce was thick and black, but somehow it tasted half (or quarter) strength of what it should have. I'm not sure how one does that (unless the sauce is colored and loaded down with cornstarch or gelatin as a thickener).

      Since we had such a massive bowl of the sauce left over, I'm going to tinker with it over the weekend and see if I can boost the flavor.

      Mr Taster

      1. re: Mr Taster
        p
        parked Feb 26, 2010 12:02 PM

        From what I understand, the basic sauce is made by stir frying the concentrated black bean paste with pork, onions, and then water is added to boil, and then yes, corn starch to thicken.

        I think the 'kan' jjajang version either skips or goes lite on the water and cornstarch added. Some prefer that version--it's usually one notch more expensive. The flavor is more concentrated and the dish is perhaps less greasy, or at least a different type of greasy.

        The 'samseon' version or seafood also has a different nuanced flavor and is also less greasy in its own way.

        I have not worked in the area since 2004 and we don't go to k-town often enough to really compare but i could ask around as to what is best right now. The mandarin deli on 8th street was indeed considered the best by many for a while, but as many have noted, it's gone down hill or is at least inconsistent.

        As namster notes below, the one inside k-town plaza on east side of Western a couple blocks north of Olympic is favored by many. The one in the Galleria food court is convenient.

        Being light of wallet, lately I have been frequenting China Gate (Chinese Gate? JoongHwaGak in Korean) on the NE corner of Olympic and Crenshaw. The jjajang is $4, the jjambong is $5, the 1/2 1/2 combo is $6 and the quality is decent. They also serve frozen yogurt and boba (2 for 1!) right there so it's convenient.

        1. re: parked
          Mr Taster Feb 26, 2010 12:43 PM

          Are the noodles hand pulled at the places you mention? That's really the key to get me to go there.

          Mr Taster

          1. re: Mr Taster
            p
            parked Feb 27, 2010 10:10 PM

            i'm pretty sure China Gate has hand-pulled noodles--they had that reassuring inconsistent thickness and nice bite.

            i vaguely remember the place in k-town plaza also having hand-pulled but i could be wrong. this is probably the place i would recommend if i absolutely had to make a rec.

            there always seems to be a wait so they must be doing something right.

            1. re: parked
              ipsedixit Feb 28, 2010 11:31 AM

              It's Chinese Gate (not China Gate).

              Not hand-made noodles (either pulled or rolled). Awful place. Avoid.

              1. re: ipsedixit
                p
                parked Mar 1, 2010 03:11 PM

                Ipsedixit--

                I am consistently impressed by the range of restaurants you have tried.

                Where (if anywhere) do you like eating jjajangmyeon in K-town?

                1. re: parked
                  ipsedixit Mar 1, 2010 05:00 PM

                  Ding's and One Plus One Dumplings are good options.

                  1. re: ipsedixit
                    p
                    parked Mar 1, 2010 08:31 PM

                    I was actually asking if you had any recs in K-town, but this is good to know as well.

                    The never-ending list of Chinese places I have to try keeps on growing ...

                    1. re: parked
                      ipsedixit Mar 2, 2010 04:57 AM

                      Sorry. I should have noted that I'm not all that familiar with the Korean version of Jia Jiang Mien. I think I just prefer the flavor/taste of the Chinese version.

                      1. re: ipsedixit
                        p
                        parked Mar 2, 2010 09:42 AM

                        I don't even really consider the Chinese and Korean versions to be the same dish.

                        They might have started out from the same origin but they're pretty different now, much like the difference between various regional pizzas.

                        I should also mention that timing is really key in eating Korean JJM. The difference between fresh made noodles/sauce and stuff that has been sitting around for while is ginormous, perhaps more so than other noodle dishes. The same dish at the same restaurant can be excellent at one point, and barely edible 30 mins later, especially if it's from the same batch.

                        No matter how you try it, JJM does not reheat well IMHO, and I've been experimenting for like 2 decades.

                    2. re: ipsedixit
                      j
                      JThur01 Mar 4, 2010 11:10 AM

                      ipsedixit, which Ding's?

                      1. re: JThur01
                        ipsedixit Mar 4, 2010 12:37 PM

                        Ding's Garden in San Gabriel (on Valley).

          2. re: Mr Taster
            a_and_w Feb 27, 2010 08:11 AM

            FYI, if you find ja jang myun too bland, you might want to try jampong, a spicy seafood soup with noodles.

            1. re: Mr Taster
              Mr Taster Feb 27, 2010 10:53 AM

              WOW!!

              I thawed some frozen pork and browned it in a frying pan with a few spoonfuls of Kikkoman black bean sauce. I then incorporated it into the leftover Mandarin House cha chiang mian sauce.

              It was fantastic!!!

              Seriously, lovely, salty, sweet, and the right texture with the bits of minced pork.

              Mr Taster

          3. Ciao Bob Feb 26, 2010 09:36 AM

            Hey MT!
            I agree with you 100% I really used to love this place before it moved into the mall. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE good Ja Jiang Mein, Korean or Chinese, but it is so hard to find. I hear Young King is good but I haven't been.
            CB

            2 Replies
            1. re: Ciao Bob
              e
              exilekiss Feb 26, 2010 10:16 AM

              Hi Ciao Bob,

              Please report back if you end up finding any very good Ja Jiang Mien in the area; I've been craving a good bowl, but all my go-to places closed down.

              1. re: Ciao Bob
                a_and_w Feb 27, 2010 08:26 AM

                Haven't tried the ja jang myun at Young King, but some hounds recently turned me onto the tan soo yuk there, which is quite tasty.

              2. westsidegal Feb 26, 2010 10:14 AM

                not an experience with mandarin house, but with another of the Gold recommendations that seems dated.
                Gold recommends the catfish served at Chinois on Main, which btw is one of my favorite restaurant dishes, but he describes it as being a huge portion.
                well, years ago it may have been a huge portion, but not for a long, long, time.
                just to be clear, i still think the quality of this dish is terrific.

                1. a
                  andytseng Feb 26, 2010 10:46 AM

                  I don't know if I have a huge bias because I'm Chinese (there is definitely some bias), but I've never taken to the Korean version of ja jiang mien, for many of the reasons you describe. Where do I find a Korean version that you enjoy?

                  If it helps, I like the one they do at Dean Sin World.

                  4 Replies
                  1. re: andytseng
                    t
                    taiwanesesmalleats Feb 26, 2010 10:53 AM

                    I agree. I have yet to find a Korean version that's as tasty as the Chinese one.

                    1. re: taiwanesesmalleats
                      ipsedixit Feb 26, 2010 01:16 PM

                      Yes, not to pile on against the Koreans, but I prefer the Chinese version. Always seemed to me that the sauce was more pungent and savory.

                      1. re: ipsedixit
                        Mr Taster Feb 26, 2010 01:43 PM

                        It seems such a shame to go through the effort of making hand pulled noodles and then thwarting the effort by dousing them in a diluted sauce.

                        Let's refocus the question.... whose Koreatown hand pulled noodle dishes are really worth eating? (Where to go and what dishes do you recommend there?)

                        Mr Taster

                    2. re: andytseng
                      a_and_w Feb 27, 2010 08:22 AM

                      One of the ironies of Korean-Chinese food is that it tends to be sweeter, less spicy, and less funky than authentic Chinese. It's so odd because Korean food generally tends to be spicier and more funky than the alternatives.

                    3. n
                      namstermonster Feb 26, 2010 11:13 AM

                      i like it at the chinese place in ktown plaza next to nicole's cafe. they also have a branch in the galleria food court but i like the ktown one better. there are several different types of jja jjang myun (i.e. gahn, samsung, yuni, etc.) to be honest, i haven't seen very many chinese or any non-koreans, rather, eat jja jjang myun. the korean-influ chinese places tend to be frequented by koreans. also, most places don't serve the noodles completely separately.. they usually have it in the same bowl altho they leave it up to you to mix the 2 together evenly. mandarin has gone downhill but perhaps to add to it, the OP did not use enough sauce?? if it were my first time eating jja jjang myun i can imagine i wouldn't know to use enough sauce as what looks to be enough is not enough (jja jjang myun needs to be completely covered through and through and still have extra sauce for it to taste right).

                      1 Reply
                      1. re: namstermonster
                        Mr Taster Feb 26, 2010 12:45 PM

                        We started by lightly saucing the noodles. When we realized that we were tasting 90% wheat, we loaded in the sauce until it was virtually swimming in it. The 90% figure came down to perhaps 70%. I mean, it's not a criminal offense or anything, but it was just so shocking that the stuff tasted so lightly of anything substantial, despite the quantity we were using.

                        Mr Taster

                      2. Peripatetic Feb 27, 2010 02:28 AM

                        I've had ja jang myun at Mandarin House and was completely unimpressed. The ja jang sauce seemed to consist largely of thickener. It's a really inferior example of ja jang myun, and it would be a mistake to use it as a benchmark to gauge your preference for Chinese zha jiang mian vs Korean ja jang myun.

                        1. peppermonkey Feb 27, 2010 08:37 AM

                          The best one i've had was at VIP in cerritos. Peking Gourmet in garden grove is pretty good. Haven't had mandarin house yet. Dragon house across from park's is also decent. But all these blow away any "authentic" chinese version I've had

                          10 Replies
                          1. re: peppermonkey
                            p
                            parked Mar 1, 2010 03:15 PM

                            By any chance, are you originally from OC?

                            It's funny, but every gyopo I ask seems to think the jjajangmyeon from their home area is the best.

                            I just asked three friends from the Bay Area now living in LA and they both swore that the JJM from Berkeley was light years better.

                            Have heard the same comments from gyopos from the New York/Jersey area.

                            Years ago, I met some gyopos from Minnesota who insisted the JJM there was even better than the stuff in Seoul.

                            Go figure.

                            1. re: parked
                              peppermonkey Mar 1, 2010 07:20 PM

                              i am from oc originally but cerritos is actually LA. I definitely have no allegiance to oc. I have never found a better version of any dish in OC compared to LA, except of course for vietnamese food

                              1. re: peppermonkey
                                J.L. Mar 2, 2010 04:54 PM

                                Hole in the wall alert for Korean JJM:

                                My favorite Korean JJM is actually in Cerritos:

                                King Dragon
                                13333 South St
                                Cerritos, CA 90703
                                (562) 924-3223

                                1. re: J.L.
                                  e
                                  exilekiss Mar 3, 2010 09:47 AM

                                  Hi J.L.,

                                  Nice! Do they have hand-pulled noodles for their JJM? Thanks.

                                  1. re: exilekiss
                                    J.L. Mar 3, 2010 11:06 PM

                                    Hi ek,
                                    Never bothered asking, but the je-ne-sais-quoi "oomph" (or 'bounciness' for lack of a better term) to their noodles is amazing.

                                    I actually found King Dragon by accident, since Grandma has a house nearby in Cerritos, and she is a ChowHound too!

                              2. re: parked
                                a_and_w Mar 2, 2010 08:22 AM

                                The East Bay Area is very competitive for Korean-Chinese food. I, too, would rate the best there on par (if not better) than what we have in LA. Then again, I am an SF expat, so perhaps it's just further proof of your theory lol!

                                1. re: a_and_w
                                  n
                                  namstermonster Mar 2, 2010 11:57 AM

                                  tried the jja jjang at places in sj, berkeley, sac, etc. la is way way wayyy better!! abs no contest (not as good as korea tho hehe)

                                  1. re: namstermonster
                                    a_and_w Mar 2, 2010 12:57 PM

                                    I actually wasn't referring to the ja jang myun -- I'm more a tan soo yuk, mapo tofu, and dry-fried chicken guy. Regardless, that's good to know! Where are your favorite places here in LA?

                                    1. re: a_and_w
                                      p
                                      parked Mar 2, 2010 06:34 PM

                                      It's funny but the JJM situation in K-town reminds me alot of what it was like in Seoul when I was there in the late 90s (no idea what it's like now).

                                      RIght now in K-town, it seems like there are a lot of mediocre to good places serving cheap bowls ($4-5) that all taste pretty much the same.

                                      Few places are willing to go that extra mile and consistently make an outstanding bowl, simply because it's not worth the cost and effort and people will eat it anyway out of convenience.

                                      But maybe it has always been that way since the invention of good (servicable) noodle making machines.

                                      1. re: a_and_w
                                        n
                                        namstermonster Mar 15, 2010 03:48 PM

                                        didn't c ur quest til now. i actually like the jjm at jin heung gak (mandarin house) in koreatown plaza, little santong in artesia, and hsiang yuen in cerritos. young king (across street from shin peking) used to be an old standby, tho i haven't been in years.

                              3. n
                                namstermonster Mar 1, 2010 09:51 AM

                                haha.. i would!!

                                2 Replies
                                1. re: sillygoosedown
                                  Mr Taster Mar 2, 2010 08:15 PM

                                  Precisely why we're discussing grub on Chowhound and not bandwagoning with the Yelpketeers.

                                  http://www.chow.com/manifesto

                                  Mr Taster

                                  1. re: Mr Taster
                                    J.L. Mar 2, 2010 08:32 PM

                                    Bravo, MrTaster.

                                2. a_and_w Mar 15, 2010 08:19 AM

                                  My aunt and uncle were just raving about the ja jang myun at Mandarin Garden on S. Vermont across from The Dragon. I haven't tried that dish at Mandarin Garden, but I did have some of the best mool mandoo ever from there a while back. Definitely worth a shot.

                                  -----
                                  Mandarin Garden
                                  1001 S Vermont Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90006

                                  1. a
                                    annapurna7 Mar 29, 2010 11:17 AM

                                    I recently had the Ja Jian Mien at Tien Chin Ro Express on saturday and I have to say that it was outstanding. The sauce had the perfect balance of salt and sweetness. Definitely give this place a try if you are in the South Bay. The restaurant is located in the food court of Mitsuwa Marketplace in Torrance.

                                    I also had a bowl of their Jampong (spicy seafood soup) and it is quite addicting.

                                    1 Reply
                                    1. re: annapurna7
                                      a_and_w Mar 29, 2010 12:11 PM

                                      Wow...I had no idea. Thanks for the tip!

                                    2. Mr Taster Mar 29, 2010 12:48 PM

                                      Check out my recent post for a place to find a solid rendition of jia jang mian (among other things)

                                      http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/697996

                                      Mr Taster

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