GOOD Jewish Bakery in Brooklyn???

[noisejoke]

Am I tilting at windmills? I feel like I've been on a sporadic, yet eternal, search for the Jewish bread and rolls of my childhood (which wasn't SO long ago). Born in Brooklyn in 1964, I mostly grew up in Nassau County. Most of my family remained here, some were in every boro but the Bronx. There was never a shortage of great bakery stuff, it was only a matter of whose was best.

I live in Kensington now and have plenty of access to Boro Park and Midwood. I can't tell you exactly what places I've visited since none have warranted a return visit. I've sampled on 18th Ave, New Utrecht, Macdonald, 13th and 14th aves. I guess I haven't really searched Kings Hwy. Just the other day I finally got to Isaac's on ave J, having seen recommendations on CH, and found it completely forgettable.

To be clear, I'm not talking about pastries and cookies. I can find a decent babkah, strudel, etc and many of those items overlap with other Eastern European bakery cuisines, so the chances are better. I generally don't bother with rugelach. I have found a palatable one here and there, which to me means a minimum of chemical aftertaste of most commercial stuff. But none are as good as my mom's and I don't expect them to be.

Certainly, I can find a hearty, chewy, flavorful rye bread at a boutique shop supplied by a high end baker. It's not EXACTLY what I want, but Grab in the South Slope, for instance, gets a great version. Maybe, it's a bit too chi-chi. I find it shocking, though, that almost every rye from an actual Jewish bakery is barely salty enough to even have flavor.

Any onion roll I come across in the Jewish areas is simply tasteless bread, with a desultory stripe of onion and poppy inside. I'm looking for an entire layer of moist onions almost enabling the roll to be cleaved by hand. The blackened onions on top should cover the whole thing, and the roll itself should be dense, yellow and moist. We used to call it a "Miami Roll" but when I ask at any Kosher place they look at me like I have two heads. I still don't know what they call the crappy rolls that do have the onion inside.

At Isaac's I asked for a salt stick, and he asked if I wanted sesame or poppy! Uh, a salt stick isn't just an oblong roll - it's egg brushed and topped with tons of caraway seeds and kosher salt. I never had poppy or sesame salt sticks. For some dumb reason I took two flavorless salt stick shaped rolls home and threw them out.

Finally, I haven't found a cornmeal rye in twenty years! Again, I ask and get blank stares and even dismissive barks. I don't make the mistake of calling it corn bread anymore. (I stopped that after visiting the South for the first time.)

Any new, or overlooked old, news would be amazing. Thanks, esteemed CHers.

[Jcohen552003]

Well i know what you are talking about.
Lived in Rockland county for most of my life and my family in Brooklyn.
We had a great bakery that made corn bread and the miami rolls you spoke of.
I havent found the rolls but the bread is a staple of Rockland Bakery in Nanuet NY. They sell under the name Pecters and Rockland bakery
They are wholesale but you can walk into the back and buy off the rack.
They have the closest thing to an old time bakery.
The other thing you cant find is an Onion board or Pletzel. The closet place i find it is at Rockland bakery or Kosher bakery in South Fl. The onion boards i knew of were hard with a ton of onion and poppy seeds. Very crisp and great with butter or cream cheese.
It could be a great sat or sunday drive up to rockland. Watch the rolls come out of the oven and then cool down. Get a ton of bread and rolls and bring them home to freeze. W do all the time. There cakes are good too. I wind up spending why too much there and i live near by.

[noisejoke]

Thanks J! Who knows, maybe I'll take you up. But, I rarely find myself in Rockland. It's sad that the places I knew out on the Island are gone. And you're absolutely right about the onion board! Nobody's seems to come close, including Kossar's.

I'm hesitant to write this, but I've been wondering if this is evidence to the diaspora of the assimilated, largely less or not religious, Jewish population that moved from the boros to the suburbs in the fifties and sixties, and is now spread too thin. Perhaps there was a not specifically kosher cuisine and culture in general that's being supplanted by more observant Jews. And perhaps they have different priorities and/or different tastes?

[smsgojets]

Where in south Florida is this bakery? What's the name? I vacation there all the time and would drive all over for some good bread. I get an Onion Board occasionally at Heartland Bagels in Staten Island but it still doesn't do it for me.

[dmjuli]

Try Tina's in Canarsie ( Ralph ave near Foster). I think they have what you want.

[Jcohen552003]

There is one other thing that i do now because most bread stinks. There is a book Artisan Bread Baking in Five Minutes a Day. Its by Jeff Hertzberg and Zoe Francois. This is great bread. It has a few differnt doughs. There is no kneeding and you keep it in thr fridge for days and weeks at a time. You can also freeze the dough.
Its some of the best and easist bread to make and Oh so fresh. The house smells so good. My wife loves it when i bake bread and my friends just love it.

[jen kalb]

There is a cookbook Secrets of a Jewish Baker by George Greenstein that has the type of recipes you are looking for, Miami Rolls, Pletzel, Corn Rye Bread (no corn, actually except for dusting, etc.
Im not Jewish but agree that the range of eastern european breads available in NY has radically changed, and not for the better, in the last 30-40 years. I havent baked from this book but the author is very careful about his flours and his methods

[noisejoke]

If only I ever lifted a fork to help out in the kitchen!

Jen - I've read about that book before, thanks for reminding me! Found mentions online and was reminded how dense Corn Rye is! Heavy, most and sour!

I'm running to Teena's asap!

[foodismylife]

noisejoke
Sorry re Isaacs i gues that was my rec
I adore their pastries, havent had their breads
For corn bread u have to go to Manhattan
I guess it is called Moshes but it is on second avenue about 6th st on the west side of the street
their corn bread is top notch

[MoxieBoy]

I assume they are still in business...for reasonable bialies and pletzels, try the store on the east side of Coney Island Avenue, a bit north of Avenue U. I don't know if Bell's on Flatlands by E 80 St still sell retail, but worth a phone call.

[dmjuli]

Bell's moved from E 80th street a few years ago. I think they relocated to 101 st and foster.

[smsgojets]

Bell moved to E 80th and Foster and while they now distribute worldwide, they do still sell retail there.

[MoxieBoy]

But when Isaac's was Ratchick's...ah machaiyah! The best rye, eyeglasses, elephant ears, bowties with enough sugar to kill a diabetic, and rugluch almost as good as my grandmothers.

The deli diaspora...we Jews left Brooklyn...but never established a new place to fress with gusto. What remains, feh!

Show me a good appetizing store already!!! With indian nuts, shoeleather, schmaltz herring, fresh pickled herring...matchez herring...(enough with the herring already!)...joyva gel rings and two kinds of Halvah...

Now all you can get in a supermarket is Salsa...not seltzer. Pulkas, not pulkees. Chinese buffets. Indian Buffets. American Buffets...but not one piece of kishke...chulupshkis...kasha varnishkes. Nan, panni, si! A shtickl pumpernickel with gribbinis? Am I asking to much to close my arteries just a little sooner?

WE NEED GOOD BAKERIES. With the noisy bread slicers. With the boxes with the red and white string tying machines...with the black and whites. The plain vs seeds. The sugar falling off everything. The machine you push the handle for the paper number that says 39 when they are still up to 17. WE WANT THEM BACK.

Have a good day.

[foodismylife]

moxie boy you are breaking my heart some of this stuff is still available but just not in one place
ah the joyva jells and the chocolate covered halavah
gribbines go to sammy's rumanian my son had his bar mitzvah there
russ and daughters is still a great treasure
in newark hobby's is a wonderful deli
they even have a sandwich place in the new prudential center
herring go to acme on fridays when they sell retail in greenpoint
Flatbush was and is still the world in my memory bank
do you remember when a deli wrapped the mustard in wax cones?
Forget sushi, that is what a hand roll should be.

[BrooklynBigApple]

MoxieBoy said: "WE NEED GOOD BAKERIES. With the noisy bread slicers. With the boxes with the red and white string tying machines...with the black and whites. The plain vs seeds. The sugar falling off everything. The machine you push the handle for the paper number that says 39 when they are still up to 17. WE WANT THEM BACK."

I know this is under "Jewish Bakeries" but just like Levy's Rye Bread used to advertise "You don't have to be Jewish to love Levy's", maybe you don't have to be German to love Rudy's Konditorei (a/ka Rudy's Pastry Shop) in Ridgewood, Queens, on Seneca Ave. immediately north of Myrtle Ave., reachable by car, M & L subways and a myriad of Brooklyn and Queens buses that terminate in Ridgewood. It's got just about everything MoxieBoy is looking for.
I go there instead of Teena's in Canarsie, where I still live; the difference is palpable in atmosphere & taste. Also try their apple strudel, cheesecake or Bienenstich (Don't know what that is; ask there; they're friendly)

[MoxieBoy]

YOU LIVE NEAR TEENA'S? I lived on E 77th by Ralph Ave for 8 years! I didn't know they could still stay in business until now! Is the kosher supermarket there?

I remember getting my GI Joe "Action Figure" at the Pancake House on the corner back around 1964. Oy...how it changed.

And the bialies...the one thing my wanted to stay for.

[bobjbkln]

«I finally got to Isaac's on ave J, having seen recommendations on CH, and found it completely forgettable.» So close, and yet so far. For bread there is no place like Ostrovitsky Heimishe Bakery 1124 Avenue J, Brooklyn, NY. Best time to go is early Sunday morning (we got the last 2 lb seeded rye left at 10 AM).

[jen kalb]

it used to be possible to get good breads in the stores on Brighton Beach Ave. Has anyone explored those places recently?

[Westminstress]

I haven't tried the bread at Ostrovitsky but on a recent visit I was very impressed with the apple strudel.

[Peter Cherches]

For folks in Park Slope, D'Vine Taste on 7th Avenue carries a large range of baked goods from Ostrovitsky as well as bagels from the Bagel Hole.

http://petercherches.blogspot.com

[homechefrebecca]

Chiffon Bakery on Ocean Ave used to be good. I haven't been there in a long time so I don't know if the quality is still the same...

[noisejoke]

Thanks everybody! This is great. But, can't anybody confirm even the existence of a salt stick or corn rye at any of the places mentioned?

@bobjbklyn - I passed the place you mentioned, and noted in the past, (during DiFara's runs, natch). I'll be sure to give it a shot.

Grivnas (as my family pronounces it) can also be found at the Second Avenue Deli. I can't say they're as good as my grandmother's.

[jen kalb]

have you eaten the Silver Bell Bakery lithuanian breads. I think they used to make a corn bread, but not sure they do any more (remembered breads with a paper sticker, UWS in the 70s) Eagle Provisions sells some of their breads as well as a decreasing selection of russian ryes. I havent seen a salt stick for years.

I have looked into Chiffon but nothing calls me to buy. Maybe if I came from that tradition - but I dont. I liked the old hungarian-style Jewish bakeries that baked with tons of butter, Louis Lichtmans comes to mind.

[Amy Mintzer]

Lichtman's! You actually just brought tears to my eyes. The cinammon babka. Sniff.

[foodismylife]

I remember the aper sticker on the breads from the fifties.
Was it a union label?
Salt stick is made by Pechters a commercial baker in Harrison, NJ.
They supply the rolls for the dirty water hot dog carts and also commercial rye.
I go to their bakery store.
Good but not great.
moshes in Manhattan better, and they do corn bread(corned rye) that is.

[bobjbkln]

The paper sticker was a union label.
BTW, there is also a fairly new place called U.S. Russian bread just a few doors down from DiFara's on E.15th St (1012 E. 15th), that I've never been to, but it looks promising.

[foodismylife]

thank's I thought it was a union label
it was so small I remember I couldn't read it.
We knew it as an onion bun as opposed to an onion roll which was round and far crustier.
I liked both the onion roll with butter and raw onions and the onion bun with cream cheese.
I was and still very adamant re this.
Never claimed to have had an easy childhood.
Any shot at heaven being Flatbush circa 1958?
Just hoping.
Good eating to all.

[jen kalb]

I erred above - Eagle sells TJ Lithuanian, not Silver Bell

[falconress]

We know salt sticks! My sis-in-law just brought a couple to an aunt last week and I was instantly transported to childhood. I'll ask where she got it, but I have a feeling that Strauss on 13th Ave and 52nd St might have them.

Cornbread - that is, rye bread with cornmeal on bottom, yes? No pun intended, but try Korn's Bakery, 16th Avenue at 50th St. Strauss also probably has it, but I think Korn's is better.

And, go figure - not that you asked, but I was happily surprised last night to find a decent kasha knish, long after the last of my go-to places managed to ruin them completely because they can't be bothered to cook the kasha properly first, resulting in a gluttonous, tasteless mess. So it's a glatt kosher deli, 16th Avenue around 47th St, not sure of the name. It's a run-of-the-mill glatt take-out in other respects, but suddenly I saw kasha knishes, and you can tell even from how they look that they were correctly made. No bread , though.

[BonnieB.]

Chiffon's is still around, the moved to Ave. P near McDonald Ave. Sorry don't know the exact address. They used to be on Coney Island Ave. around the corner from Ostrovitsky's.

[Greg]

You can find Miami rolls at Fairway. The bread is meh, but at least it's yellow and fairly moist. The rolls do have a full layer of onions inside, so at least they have that going for them. Just wish they had poppy seeds as well...

[efdee]

noisejoke, The closest thing to the salt sticks of my youth, was in the excellent bread basket at Peter Luger's. Their salt sticks were so good that I asked the waiter where they were from, and I think he said somewhere in Queens. Unfortunately, that's all I can tell you, so if you find any, please post. Thanks.

[jon]

i would love to find a good onion board in brooklyn. surprisingly, the met supermarket (at least the one on 3rd ave and 17th street in manhattan) stocks a good onion board. sorry, don't remember the name of the bakery on the tag.

[foodismylife]

Kossar's but it is in Manhattan at Grand and Essex
bialys were better a few years and managements ago
As Steely Dan would sing, those days are gone forever, over a long time ago.

[hvf100]

Mimi Sheraton's "The Bialy Eaters" is a must read. It chronicles her global search for the perfect bialy. It is a beautiful and poignant story of a lost world.

[foodismylife]

hvf100
It is and always was shocking to me when a teacher will tell us kids that a technique was lost or a village disappeared.
I have now lived long enough I will be 63 next month to live it.
Kossar's was so off the scale awful on Monday night as not to be believed.
I went at * PM
The small bulka was in a plastic bag, the bialys were in the wooden drawer and ere many of them.
The bulka was a buck and the bialy was ninety cents.
I took a bite of it and threw them out.
It wasnt only that it was stale but it was inedible.
I regret saying these things but the is simply no reason to ever return.
If they do not have any pride they should not be in business.
Forgive me all for my bitterness, but a world has ended.
PS a decent bialy can be found at Hot Bagela on Maple Avenue and Route 208 Fair Lawn NJ
They are wonderful people but it aint the bialy of Flatbush.

[Mike R.]

Kossar's recent product is one of the great travesties of this or any century the bialy dates from. Mimi would "brech" at first bite.

"Inedible" - foodismylife, I know precisely what you mean. Like the busload touristas who flock to Grimaldi's for their "classic" NY pizza, I can't help but wish Kossar-goers best wishes as they find their false bread-gods "Pletzl" and "Bulka"...Yisgadal v'yisgadash.

[foodismylife]

Mike R
U are right on, I was more than appalled.
Even my good to place for bagels in NJ has a just okay bialy and Moshes didnt seem much better but I didnt get one.
Murrays also has ordinary bialys but awesome bagels.
Love the perversity of their refusal to toast.
Like the pyramids, we have lost the art of bialy making.
May the bialystokers of blessed memory dream sweet dreams of gluten flour and water.

[dmjuli]

I just went to Teenas this morning. They do have corn bread, salt sticks, rye bread, pumpernickel, marble bread, onions rolls and more. I tried the corn and rye breads, the onion rolls and the salt sticks. I think the salt sticks are my favorite. I am no expert but I thought the breads were very good. Is it worth a shlep out to Canarsie? You will have to try it and let me know.

[noisejoke]

Oh my! At this point it's absolutely worth the shlep! Thanks for the recon!!!

[ericalloyd]

boy oh boy do i miss shloime & deutsch bakery on 86th st in bensonhurst

[rebloonin]

I cant bare to read through every one of the responses here, but, if you can make it out to Long Island, Long Beach to be specific, I remember from my youth, Country Boy Bakery to have some amazing onion rolls. Maybe make a day out of it and continue on out to the beach.

[erica]

You don't even have to get to Long Beach. Wall's in Hewlett, on Broadway, is THE quintessential Jewish-style bakery. Divine rye bread, babka, etc etc etc......surprised that it does not get mentioned here on CH more often.

[bklynsausage]

Looking for Onion Boards Pletzel Bialys... Coney Island Ave Bet. Ave T & Ave U. Next to Sahara Rest... It is there and the real deal...

[barbgail61]

Looking for black seeds that used to be used in Newark breads - I'm enjoying reading this although I'm not from Brooklyn so have never been on the Outer Borough's board. I'm from Rockland County, which someone already mentioned still is home to Rockland Bakery. Rockland Bakery still bakes Jewish Cornbread, Rye, Challah, Onion Rolls, Onion Boards (although these are not the hard, crispy kind but rather soft and resembling pizza crust). You still go in the back, put on gloves, and help yourself, and then have anything you want sliced up front. Yes, they do bake cakes, but their specialty is bread, and they are well-known for their bread, and ship allover. One thing I'm still looking for though, which Rockland Bakery does not make, is rye bread with "Black Seeds". Not caraway (rye, or kimmel) but these dark, hard, pungent seeds that we used to get from bakeries in Newark, NJ in the 1960s-1970s. I don't know what these seeds are called, but they gave the ryes and Russian ryes a unique flavor that the current breads lack. Sometimes these black seeds were also on pumpernickles. If anyone knows what these seeds are called or someplace that still uses these in their breads, please let me know. Thank you.

[erica]

Nigella seeds?

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/385656

[barbgail61]

Thank you Erica. The seeds I'm remembering from that great Newark rye and pumpernickel may just be Nigella? I'll have to try to buy some and see. Years ago, someone told me about Nigella seeds, but when I asked in a store, I was sold black sesame seeds, which was wrong. Black sesame seeds aren't pungent, like those black seeds were. But I don't think I was sold true Nigella seeds. So I'll try to buy some from a reputable place mailorder, and then I'll see.

Thank you,

Barbara

[Pan]

You should be able to get them at any decent Middle Eastern or South Asian store. I live in Manhattan and know they're available at Dual and Kalustyan's, but I'm sure they're also available at Sahadi's and stores in Jackson Heights, among other places.

[barbgail61]

Thank you Pan. I'm working in Bergen County NJ, and there are some Middle Eastern restaurants in the area, so maybe if I ask them they'll know of a local store. And I think I ordered from Kalustyans online once? I'll look to see if they have a website. I'm so excited, I may be able to get these seeds and surprise my parents who abolutely loved that bread from Newark!

[jen kalb]

yes they are nigella also sold as kalonji (in indian stores) or "black onion seeds" http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Nige_sat.html
thats definitely what you are looking for. I think some of the bakeries still offer this type of bread - here is one, which wholesales to a lot of stores in the NY metro area
http://www.lithbake.com/bread.html

[barbgail61]

Thank you so much Jen for this info. I will check out both links. And my boss is from Mumbai, India! Now that I know that these seeds are Indian I'll tell him that I'm looking for this. He comes from a part of NJ where this is a large Indian community, so perhaps one of those stores he frequents sells Kalonji? Thanks again for the info.

[falconress]

You can get them from Penzeys Spices, also known as Charnushka. I ordered them once out of curiosity and they have the strong flavor you describe. Here is Penzeys description:

Tiny, black, smoky flavored seeds found atop Jewish rye bread in New York. Used in Armenia, Lebanon, Israel, and India. Also referred to as black caraway or kalonji, charnushka is used heavily in garam masala. From India."

Since they are used in Indian cooking, now I'm thinking you can probably find them in Indian groceries as well, certainly at Kalustyan's on Lexington.

[Pan]

Yes, you can indeed find them at Indian stores.

[bklynsausage]

Here is the only answer.

Coney Island Bialy Bakeries Co Inc
2359 Coney Island Avenue, New York, NY 11223

[phone]

[Motosport]

Has anyone suggested Lord's Bakery on Nostrand Ave near the junction. They have Corn Rye. Call ahead, they run out.

[ajs42548]

I was going to ask if Lord's is still there as they had the best rye bead in the city in my opinion. I used to live in Brooklyn till 1965 and went there all the time. Even after we left, if either my brother or myself was anywhere in Brooklyn, we would go to Lord's for the rye. Glad to see they are still in business and their rye is still good.

[BrooklynBigApple]

And while you're in Lord's, definitely get their cheesecake. Man does not live by bread alone. And Lord's cheesecake IMHO beats Junior's by a country mile, despite the claim that their cheesecake is NYC's #1.

[Pan]

Lord's is definitely still there. I got a raspberry pastry from them on Saturday.

[KingsKetz]

Kaff's on Fort Hamilton just past Maimonides and the El. Great great great challah. My family demands I bring it to NJ whenever we come to visit. Fabulous marble sponge cake. The best. Great babka. Danish is fine. I haven't tried everything but those are enough for me to come back for again and again. They have rye but I haven't tried it yet.

[bklynsausage]

Let me take you out of Bklyn for a few since it seems like most of you travel for these products. Moishes on second ave and 6th st. in the east village. & Aarons on 63rd drive in Rego pArk Queens. both are worth the trip and both are still Kosher!!

Ciao/Shalom-

[Hydrin]

I know what you mean, since Leon's bakery on Knapp Street in Brooklyn closed it is impossible to get good Rye bread, rolls and cakes. The next best is Lord's on Nostrand ave in Brooklyn. I tried Tina,s on Ralph but was not happy with their cakes their Rye was good.

[Mike R.]

Let's throw two more hats into the ring...

First, for bagels - my oft-recommended BAGELS & MORE on 14th Avenue and 43rd Street (Borough Park) for the kind of chewy, hard-crusted guys you would have more commonly eaten in the 1960s - now an absolute one-of-a-kind experience in NYC.

Second - SHLOMIE's on New Utrecht Avenue and 50th Street (also Borough Park) - go Friday mornings and gorge yourself on the incredible MINI-sized poppyseed and cinnamon rugelach-like horns. A variety of challahs including whole-wheat also fresh on their shelves.

[giftergirl]

is there a bakery that still does the meltaway? my law school roommate's parents would always bring one from long island when they visited.

[Amy Mintzer]

Yes, Ostrovitzky's. It's carried "packaged" at various stores around the city as well as at the bakery.