Wine Pairing and Wine Criticism is "Unchallenged Bunk"

[kaysyrahsyrah]

It seems that Tim Hanni -- one of the more controversial and enlightening leaders of the wine industry -- is razzing up the press once again. Last month, it was the Wall Street Journal with his Consumer Wine Awards at Lodi. Lately, he's showing up in English publications like the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyl...

I'm glad to see wine criticism and wine pairing getting beat up a bit. It deserves to.

Wine is an incredibly complex sensory experience. On top of that, our individual palates are so diverse that there will never be a single scoring system or single wine pairing that will work for everyone.

What are your thoughts?

[maria lorraine]

Kay,

I'm wondering why you've written a number of posts about Tim Hanni and/or his product Vignon.
Your posts are sounding like PR for him. What's up? Do you work for him? Know him?

Hanni's efforts are misguided. He is into his 15th year or so of total sobriety (a great accomplishment),
which makes it quite difficult for him to recommend wines or to be an expert on food and wine pairing.
His trademark strategy of "drink what you want with what you want to eat" is borne out of this inability
to make sensory judgments on wine to go with food. That's why it's such a limited concept: It's based
on a lack of sensory information.

I'm not saying that someone needs to know a lot of food and wine pairing rules, but it is necessary
to be able to evaluate the flavors of a wine and the flavors of a dish, and to discern if the pairing is a
pleasant one or not. What you hope for is a great pairing that has the magical properties
of flavor amplification or the creation of new flavors that didn't exist before the food and wine were
tasted together, and you can't create that if you can't taste wine.

Maria

[kaysyrahsyrah]

Maria - I do not know Tim Hanni personally. But I appreciate what he is doing with his flavor balancing product (brilliant!), and how he is challenging some tired conventions in our wine industry.

A bit about me -- I've worked in the restaurant and wine industries. And for fun, I've conducted enough wine tasting experiments employing scientific methods to know that even the most expert tasters and wine enthusiasts are remarkably inconsistent. That said, I realize the value of wine professionals -- they greatly simplify all of the information and variables so that the average consumer can make a good choice more quickly. Or make a choice for them.

I also appreciate the basic intentions behind food and wine pairing. I agree with you-- we HOPE that a paring creates a better (magical) outcome together than if the wine and the food were tasted alone. But in my experience, I rarely get the 1+1=wow experience I am looking for. I often achieve "decent" pairings by following the generally accepted pairing guidelines, and I attribute this to the sizable matrix of chemical components in wine that can potentially produce a discernible clash in a situation where there shouldn't be one according to the pairing experts. And meanwhile, let's not forget the sensory differences person to person.

A case in point: last summer I brought home a batch of Hog Island and Fanny Bay oysters. My favorite pairing for oysters is Picpoul de Pinet. I tasted the wine and oysters together before my dinner party. The pairing produced a really foul taste in my mouth -- akin to skunk cabbage. So I opened a $20 Chablis. Better, but still not a great pairing. The last bottle of chilled white in my fridge was a low-acid-and-sweet muscat from the Central Coast -- supposedly a misfit, but the winner of the three in my opinion. And now, I'm upset -- I've got three bottles of wine open (costly) and the misfit is the winner. When my guests arrived, I put all three on the table with the oysters and invited them to try all wines and share which one was their favorite. Each bottle received at least two votes -- and nobody complained that the picpoul created a skunky flavor except me!

To your point about Hanni's sobriety crippling his ability to pair wine -- I agree and disagree. I trust he's tasted plenty enough wine to make solid recommendations for the rest of his sober life. But on the other hand, my experience says I often need to taste a few of bottles to make a great pairing (if I can afford it!) -- and that's where he's challenged.

[maria lorraine]

Thanks for your response.

[zin1953]

Maria,

Clearly Tim can speak for himself (and has), but he is far from the only MW and/or MS that is in recovery, and successfully at that. Indeed, Tim -- and another MW whom I know -- have some of the most acute palates of anyone I have ever tasted and/or judged wines with.

In the interest of full disclosure, I will say that I *used* to know Tim, but haven't seen him in a very long time, so I cannot say I know him today. (We judged together in the last century.) ;^)

Cheers,
Jason

[kaysyrahsyrah]

Maria - per your responses down below, I finally realize what's behind your comments above...the findings of your science/experience are opposed to Hanni's. Nothing wrong with that. Given what you say, I'm no longer sure if Hanni's work adds up.

But please be responsible -- the things you write above are your opinion. Not fact. You believe his efforts are misguided, you believe he "cannot be an expert if...."and you believe what you do about the basis of his "trademark strategy."

[maria lorraine]

In my memory, I can still see essays I wrote long ago, on which English teachers had crossed out the words “I think” and “I feel” and “I believe” in red pencil, writing in the margins, “This is unneeded. Of course, it’s your opinion!” Same with editors and editorials. My sense (how’s that instead?) is that we’re all writing mini-essays, mini-editorials here, and, as with all online postings, it’s understood that what’s being expressed is an individual’s opinion, unless it’s obvious from context that it’s fact (“salt is sodium chloride”). Sometimes in online postings, “I think/feel/believe” or IMO is used to soften what may be considered a differing or controversial opinion, but I have ghosts of English teachers and editors whispering in my ear when I do that.

I’m comfortable – and feel responsible -- expressing a strong opinion as I did above if I’ve researched the subject thoroughly, have re-checked my research to make sure it’s accurate and current, and have consulted with professionals with extensive knowledge in the field. All of which took place. Knowing the science, I can responsibly say “misguided” or “misinformed” since it refers to factual error. “Responsible” is a weighty word, and it also applies to any writing about science and what the science means. That didn’t happen in this situation in which serious factual errors about taste physiology and hypersensitivity were given extensive media play and then believed by others to be true. But to your point, when I dash out a post I sometimes don’t use the best wording or write as precisely as I might. The verbs “seems” and “appear” are quite useful in getting around the “I think/feel/believe” wording problem, and I can see one sentence above where including the verb “seems” would have been preferable to what I wrote.

Thanks for your comments.

[ibstatguy]

I think that there can at times be a bit too much hand wringing over food/wine pairing but I still think it is important and a good pairing really enhances the experience. People certainly give thought on how to pair certain dishes and wine should be given similar status. IMHO.

[kaysyrahsyrah]

I totally agree. There is too much hand wringing. But anyone who is in the business must figure out the 80/20 of it all, and deploy that knowledge in the best interest (read: satisfaction) of the customer.

[Bill Hunt]

Well stated. When doing a "serious" wine/food paring, I will often work for a week, though have to admit that it is about MY palate. Usually, I'll start with some of the "usual suspects," and then work to find just the perfect pairing - again for my (and usually my wife's, my chef) palate.

In very general terms, there are a couple of things that can happen:
1.) wine and food will clash - not good
2.) wine will not compliment food, but each will be OK on their own
3.) wine will be better off with that food - gettin' better here.
4.) food will be be better off with the wine - same level
5.) both food and wine will improve with the marriage. Now, that's what I am talking about.

Often, it takes thinking outside the "box," but that is the fun to me. Though I might well have tasted every night of the week, working up to that pairing, I still get excited, looking around the table, when things come together well. Was it the "perfect" pairing? I'll never know, but if both the food and the wine are improved by the pairing, that is the best that I can hope for.

Enjoy,

Hunt

[kaysyrahsyrah]

Bill - I wish every educational discussion on wine pairing started with your "very general terms." That demystifies things right off the bat. If you followed up those with a set of general pairing principles (do's and don'ts), then the101-level session would be halfway complete...and then you could go on to the practical tasting. :-)

[Bill Hunt]

Kind words.

Thank you,

Hunt

[maria lorraine]

I agree that wine judges and wine writers come in all levels of taste acuity and knowledge.
Wine judges range from those with no knowledge or perception of wine flaws to those with professor-level wine chemistry know-how. Some judges will medal a wine with flaws; other judges absolutely won’t. Some wine competitions each year invite a few interested consumers as judges in addition to wine professionals, something which may contribute to “inconsistency.” Wine writers range from those with cursory knowledge of a few regions to encyclopedic knowledge of the world’s regions and each vintage going back twenty years. Some wine writers have great knowledge of wine but only so-so palates. Others are blessed with both. Writers with limited exposure will write about the wines they have tasted, rather than the best of a category. And yes, people register flavor differently; everyone has a different mouth chemistry and perceptive ability based on both experience and physiology. Which is not to say there is no consensus, or core of similarity, in flavor experiences. Finally, with the advent of online publishing and an increased number of media outlets, more and more “experts” are able to express their opinions. But a profusion of “experts” expressing an opinion (informed or not), certainly isn’t limited to wine.

[Landenistim]

In the past two events leading up to this year's Consumer Wine Awards at Lodi we conducted sensitivity assessments of the judges, including people like Dan Berger, Dr. Richard Peterson, Darrel Corti, Jim Lapsley and Traci Dutton. The Hypersensitive judges, determined by a combination of wine and food preferences and looking at their tongues under magnification, flagged 94% of the wines that were deemed 'flawed' while the Tolerant tasters reported 0 wine flaws. This is one of the very important aspects of the science we are applying to the different experiences, and often radical differences in opinions, that show up over and over in wine ratings, competitions and with wine and food combinations.

No such thing as a 'so-so' palate, just vastly different. And while there are differences in chemistry it is even more importantly, and dramatically, differences in sensory physiology. And THEN comes the neurology...

[zin1953]

Tim, the phenomenon of "super-tasters" is well documented, but it does lead one to the inevitable question, "If a wine has a flaw and there is no one there who tastes it . . . "

;^)

[Bill Hunt]

Jason,

That is akin to using a spectrometer to measure aspects, including flaws. You do pose a wine-oriented "if a tree falls... " question. Now, I find "flaws," that most do not. Does that make the wine bad? If they completely enjoy it, was I wrong?

Hey, get into the Burgs, and the Rhônes, and one man's flaw is another man's "treasure."

Interesting observations, and thanks as always,

Hunt

[PolarBear]

Any reports/comments on Mr. Corti's refusal to stock wines over 14% ABV in his store?

[Landenistim]

Jason - the 'super-taster' (PROP sensitivity) is but a very small part of the many things we take into account to determine a person's overall sensitivity quotient. If you go to TasteSQ.com the Hypersenstitive tongue pictured on the home page is incapable of sensing PROP. We take a number of things into account but you can have taste buds on top of your taste buds and still have selective 'blind' spots. And no - if no one 'detects' the flaw, how could it be? :-) BTW, VERY interesting things we have learned about neural 'conditioning' and how a group of winemakers can develop a 'house palate' and expecially how distinct 'flaws' can come to be totally undectable for a group of highly trained experts!

PolarBear -

Really great question and there are aesthetic, moral, social responsibility and sensitivity issues that come into play in any discussions about alcohol levels. In the case of Darrel's decision - you would need to ask him and I will see if I can find out next time I talk with him.

Hypersensitive tasters experience high alcohol as hot, burning and increases the bitterness they are already way more sensitive to. A Tolerant taster experiences high alcohol as sweet. You can start to see why there are such dramtically different points of view from a sensory expereince standpoint - literally opposite for two different people swamiofumami.blogspot.com for 'the great Cabernet debate if you want a really in-depth look ath Steve Heiman (never been better) and Dan Berger (never been worse).

Darrel is towards the Tolerant end of the scale, and according to my records (and a big fan of our new Consumer Wine Awards program by the way). This would lead me to beleive his issue is more with 'enough is enough.' combined with an aesthetic preference for wines of more delicacy and finess than power.

Intersting story - Dan Berger, Hypersensitive taster, claims that his Sauvignon Blanc epiphany was with a Montevina wine made by Cary Gott 'back when I was young'. I think it was a 1978 - and remember the wine very well (if not the exact vintage) because it was 16% alcohol!!! The wine had been recommended to Dan by.... Darrel Corti.

Intersting because 1. Dan is VERY sensitive to high alcohol and 2. Darrel would never stock that wine today.

Two wonderful and brilliant men and a fun story. And a great look at why there is still so much to explore and learn.

[zin1953]

>>> Hypersensitive tasters experience high alcohol as hot, burning and increases the bitterness they are already way more sensitive to. A Tolerant taster experiences high alcohol as sweet. <<<

Well, clearly we know in which camp the Emperor lies . . .

All joking aside, I am not a super-taster -- at least according that that stuff that Pooch put on my tongue; ergo, I am a TOLERANT taster -- and yet I find highly alcoholic TABLE wines (say 15% abv and up) HOT, not sweet.

Porto is, obviously, something else entirely.

As far as Darrel and Dan are concerned, both are clearly outstanding tasters and Darrel has certainly forgotten more about wine than I will ever know -- well, wait: it's Darrel; I don't think he's forgotten a thing, but you know what I mean. (Tim, were you at Darrel's house that night when we did the tuna tasting with random numbers???) I agree with you that Darrel's "desire" seems to be born more out of a) an aesthetic preference, and b) the need for someone -- anyone -- to make a stand.

Dan is the only person I have ever seen nail Altecs in a judging, time after time.

Cheers,
Jason

[Landenistim]

Jason - again, you may easily be Hypersensative and NOT taste the thiurea strips. I am the one that supplied Pooch with it. That is what I am trying to say - " at least according that that stuff that Pooch put on my tongue; ergo, I am a TOLERANT taster -" is not necessarily so. the other possibility is that you ARE a tolerant taster (in general) and have a specific hypersensitivity to alcohol.

Which model Altecs - the timbre of a classic Altec compression horn can be very distincly identified with training! Sorry - audio geek as well.

And yes - very probably the Emperor is Tolerant, making him the perfect advocate for other Tolerant tasters. Wait 'til you see what we are working on with a Cornell researcher. D'mon by for lunch any time you are in Napa.

[zin1953]

Altec, not as in Lansing, but as in wine corks . . .

[drumwine]

hilarious....there's the point in a nutshell: one man's Altec is another's--

[Landenistim]

Too frickin' funny. Actually a great illustration of the misinterpretations that are inevitable with the mind processing sensory information!

[maria lorraine]

The ability to taste PROP (6-n-propylthiouracil) is genetically determined. And just like there is a genetic phenotype that determines an individual's ability or inability to taste PROP, there are genetic phenotypes that determine perceptions of fat, creaminess, optimal sweetness, and many other factors found in food.

It’s important to understand that a hypersensitivity to bitterness (or PROP strips) does not constitute a hypersensitivity to tastes overall. It simply means a hypersensitivity to bitterness, like someone else may have a hypersensitivity to fat or sweetness or green bell pepper flavors (pyrazines). This is how Jason, who couldn't taste PROP (thiurea strips), could easily be a hypertaster because of sensitivity in other areas and a trained palate.

In my research and interviews, hypertasters are often not put off by bitterness in food or wine. Though the hypertaster tastes the bitterness profoundly, s/he also tastes all the other flavors that appear in concert with the bitterness and that mollify its disagreeableness. The bitterness appears as simply one note of a chord.

[Bill Hunt]

ML,

I thought that Prop 6 went down in a referendum vote? Maybe I am misremembering things... [Grin]

Hunt

[PolarBear]

"This would lead me to beleive his issue is more with 'enough is enough.' ..."

That's pretty much the impression I've gotten along with finding the lower ones more food friendly. I've only known of Darrel a short time going back a few years when he bought up all of the remaining Primitivo bottled by our university forcing me to make a five hour round trip to score a couple of cases.

[PolarBear]

After reading about the Great Cabernet Debate and some comments on Steve Heimoff's blog (specifically one by steve on Jan 21, regarding consumer judging) .... "I have to say such events are a total waste. The come all critic consumer models do not work. For me the greatest example is Yelp here in the Bay Area. The concept is fun but if you actually try and use it to define a good restaurant from a bad one you will more often than not be disappointed."

I would submit that he is correct, only if your group is a random sample that has no parameters. Go to Yelp and you get "oh, it's yummy" or "all they serve is crap". On the other hand go to Chowhound and get detailed, informative reports. Sure there are disagreements aligned with personal tasted but the information is valuable, moreso as one spends more time listening to different preferences.

Like Jason, I find high alcohol wines hot and not sweet. Maria Lorraine's post on the neurology makes me wonder about the olfactory and taste interactions. For example, I've avoided CA Chardonnay for quite some time but last summer while tasting up in Oregon I was urged to try one at a small winery. The nose told me that the wine was going to be on the sweet side but the taste of it was almost bone dry, with what I guess one would call some "minerality", which I really liked. At our next stop I tried their Chard offering, the nose here seemd more like a Sauvignon Blanc, leading me to expect a dry and tart feeling but this one was the opposite, off dry to the sweet side.

Is this common? Would another taster perhaps have experienced a different relationship of the nose to taste in these two wines? Just curious.

BTW, looking forward to this year's Consumer Awards results.

[maria lorraine]

<< And THEN comes the neurology... >>

It all comes down to neurology.

I've done a good deal of study on taste physiology (and have consulted and interviewed sensory research experts for nearly a decade) and believe that neurology underpins our entire sense of taste.

In the same sense that we don't see with our eyes -- we see with our brains, we don't taste with our taste buds -- we taste with our brains.

To aid us in seeing, we have a lens, an optic nerve that delivers visual information to the brain, and the visual processing center in our brain that interprets the information.

To aid us in tasting, we have taste buds, neural relays that transmit taste information to the brain, and several taste processing centers in the brain. Any one of these parts of our anatomy may have diminished or enhanced capacity, and as a result the individual will have diminished or enhanced taste perception.

That’s why the number of taste buds on an individual’s tongue means very little.

It's our brain’s taste centers that determine the identity and intensity of tastes. When the brain’s taste processor center(s) – mainly, the rostral insula -- are *unused,* or damaged in any sense, an individual’s sense of taste is diminished. This is how an individual with a great many taste buds may have only moderate taste acuity.

Or, neural relays may be the cause. Between the taste buds and the brain’s taste processing centers are the neural relays. These relays *frequently* down-regulate and send *less* information to the brain. The relays down-regulate for many reasons, repeated exposure to hot and spicy foods being one. So you can have a plethora of taste buds, but if your relays are down-regulated, you still will have diminished taste.

Even in the same individual, the ability to register taste information varies. We have dedicated neurons in the brain for each of the five tastes -- sweet, sour, salty, bitter and umami. When you’ve reached (or are near) satiety, the neurons themselves reduce function.

I usually liken our taste physiology – taste buds, neural relays, brain – to cell phones, cell phone signals and cell phone towers. You can have a huge number of cell phones in an area but reduced signals from them (caused by low-batteries, for example) or a malfunctioning tower. The number of cellphones in an area doesn’t matter if batteries are low or the tower is down.

Just as any part of our taste anatomy may be diminished, it may also be enhanced or up-regulated. You may have more taste buds per square centimeter than most people, or you may have better signaling to the brain, or your brain may interpret the information with *greater skill.* In all three situations, you will have increased taste perception.

The ability of the brain to *learn* and become more adept at processing taste information and forming neural associations is one of the most striking things about the physiology of taste. A person who studies food or wine intently, or music or perfume or art intently, has enhanced processing of sensory information in their field. This is how palates become educated, and how a person with a normal number of taste buds can, with practice, become a hypertaster.

Finally, taste information is only part of the information we use to “interpret” food. Taste neurons interface with olfactory information in the orbitofrontal cortex. A reduced ability to smell or a bad interface means a reduced ability to interpret taste information. The trigeminal, maxillary and mandibular nerves in our head nerv carry information to the brain about a wine or food’s temperature, texture and a great many other factors. Any one of these nerves may have diminished or enhanced signaling that will affect taste processing.

So, there can easily be so-so palates, or anatomy functioning so-so, or brains that are so-so in interpreting taste sensory information. And, it should be said, that enhanced functioning in one area of the brain does not mean enhanced functioning in any other area!

[PolarBear]

Great stuff, Maria. Helps to understand those occasional moments when we sense a familiar aroma when there is no apparent source around or just recently, new to me, a brief taste sensation of either a dish, or component of one, enjoyed in the past appeared out of the blue with no food or beverage anywhere nearby that could have triggered it. Now if I could only recall what it was.

[ibstatguy]

recent article in the SF Chronicle:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...

[Midlife]

WOW!!!! I think I may have gained more useful insights into the subtleties of tasting, palate sensitivity,and reviews from this topic than from 4 years in the biz.

Just really love this place sometimes.

[kaysyrahsyrah]

Agree with you Midlife. There are some geeky kids among us who spend a lot of time sharing their expertise. I can't go a week without my Chowhound fix!