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Borders of the Philadelphia board?

Maybe this question belongs on the "Site Talk" board, but it could easily get lost there. I'm wondering if Chester, Montgomery, Bucks and Delaware Counties are included in this new Philadelphia board, or if it's supposed to be limited to Center City. I see suburban Philly posts in both places.

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  1. Can we please get an answer on this? I am moving posts and this is important.

    Seeing as the Philly board explicitly includes the Jersey burbs, it is only logical that it would include the PA burbs and northern Delaware, too. I have been taking the approach that Montgomery, Bucks, Chester, and Delaware Counties are part of the Phila board, but only moving the close suburbs and keeping the fringe parts in PA for the time being.

    1 Reply
    1. re: barryg

      Barry - the towns and townships of Montgomery, Bucks, Chester and Delaware counties ARE Philly's close suburbs. It wouldn't make any sense at all to include towns in those counties that are closer in to Philly while excluding other towns in the same counties that are a bit further out. Also, considering that northern Delaware borders on Chester and Delaware counties, it's logical to include that region in the Philly board rather than have it get lost in Mid-Atlantic. Lower Delaware (below the canal) is a world removed, so it's appropriate to include that part of the state in Mid-Atlantic.

    2. Now that this question has been answered by the CH Team ("This board covers Philadelphia and its metropolitan area, including Wilmington, as well as Camden and other close-in New Jersey suburbs of the city."), I think future confusion will be avoided if the new Philadelphia board is called "Philadelphia Area" rather than just "Philadelphia." I noticed there are still new posts to the Pennsylvania board that better belong on the Philadelphia board (http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/684480).

      5 Replies
      1. re: CindyJ

        Uh-oh.

        Philadelphia's NJ suburbs are on the Philly board, but NYC's NJ suburbs are on the NJ board? (and NYC's close-in Westchester and Connecticut suburbs are on the NY and Southern NE boards?)

        1. re: meatme

          It makes sense in the case of Philly's 'burbs that spill into NJ; I can't really speak to NYC's 'burbs that spill into NJ, Westchester Co. and CT.

          1. re: meatme

            >> Philadelphia's NJ suburbs are on the Philly board, but NYC's NJ suburbs are on the NJ board? (and NYC's close-in Westchester and Connecticut suburbs are on the NY and Southern NE boards?)

            New York City is a special case, because it is so large. It is the only city in the country in which the city itself is split into more than one forum. Similarly, the suburbs are too big to all get lumped into one forum. It makes sense for NJ to have its own forum, and the people on it really love having it. As for New York City's other suburbs getting lumped in with the rest of the states of New York and Connecticut, that was a travesty that should have been addressed in the last restructuring, but wasn't. I hope the Chowhound Team decides to re-arrange them the way they should be, into a Metro North board containing Westchester and Fairfield Counties, and a Long Island Board for Nassau and Suffolk Counties.

          2. re: CindyJ

            i think it could stay Philadelphia but the subtitle could say that is covers the entire Delaware Valley. That is the most concise way of expressing the entire metro area including northern DE and South Jersey. The subtitle right now is ambiguous.

            1. re: CindyJ

              >> I think future confusion will be avoided if the new Philadelphia board is called "Philadelphia Area" rather than just "Philadelphia."

              I agree. This has been the case for a long time on Chowhound, with boards called Chicago Area, Los Angeles Area, etc. I don't know why they changed this in the last restructuring; it makes perfect sense and avoids any ambiguity regarding whether or not the suburbs are included. And it applies to a bunch of other boards in addition to Philadelphia: Dallas-Fort Worth, San Diego, Atlanta, and a bunch more. They should all have the word Area added to their names.

            2. We're having some disagreement among board members about the boundaries of the Pennsylvania and Philadelphia boards, especially as regards posts about Bucks County, so we've asked hounds on the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and New Jersey boards to weigh in here. Hopefully we we can reach a consensus.

              16 Replies
              1. re: The Chowhound Team

                For my two cents, Bucks county is a suburb of Philly. FIrst of all, there is continuous sprawl from one to the other, no geographic gaps between the two. Secondly, it is within the train system of Philadelphia. Thirdly, many people who live in Bucks work in Philly. So, they frequent restaurants in both areas. It doesn't make sense to me to separate the two. Just call it "Philadelphia and surrounding areas" or something along those lines.

                1. re: The Chowhound Team

                  I don't understand why there is an issue with Bucks County. Current postings on the Philadelphia board include such suburbs as Lansdale, Souderton, even Honey Brook, plus Malvern, Wayne, New Hope (Bucks County), and one for outdoor dining in Montco/Bucks. Why would Bucks County be any different than Lansdale or Souderton or, especially, Honey Brook? While Honey Brook is in the far reaches of Chester County, it really is closer to Morgantown and Lancaster. Things seem to be working well with the division of the Philadelphia and Pennsylvania boards. While occasionally there are postings that could go on either board, CHers seem resilient and the topics get covered.

                    1. re: Bigley9

                      agree include the 5 Philly area counties including Bucks. I dont' see anyone saying differently.

                    2. re: The Chowhound Team

                      Yes please include Bucks. I live in Bucks and I am in Philly often. I rarely look at the Pennsylvania board. Bucks County is no farther from Philly than much of Chester County is.

                      1. re: The Chowhound Team

                        Another vote for including contiguous counties as well as western S Jersey and N delaware.

                        1. re: The Chowhound Team

                          Bucks definitely belongs on the Philly board. It's unquestionably a suburb of Philadelphia.

                          1. re: CindyJ

                            Agree with Cindy and other posters. Doylestown is only a hop skip and a jump from the Lansdale area, and plenty of hounds from the Philly area have stuff to say about Bucks County. No one seems to be having trouble understanding that Philadelphia means Philly and the surrounding areas. Hounds is smart. So no need to change it to Philadelphia and it's many tenacles or something. Though I do like the sound of that.

                            1. re: givemecarbs

                              Okay I was all like why are we even talking about this, there is no problem. Then I decided to check Pennsylvannia and found this:
                              http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/795031
                              Remember I am a smart ass so I couldn't help thinking why would this be moved to Pennsylvannia?? Oh, I guess school kids aren't the only ones who get bored in the summer and start messing with things for no reason. Bad board member! Now go to the pool or something or you're gonna have to clean out your closet today!

                              1. re: givemecarbs

                                That thread was started on Pennsylvania by a poster who feels pretty strongly that it should remain there. That's one of the reasons we restarted this thread.

                                1. re: The Chowhound Team

                                  And I am the person that feels very strongly that NEW HOPE, which was the thread that was moved belongs on the Philadelphia board. In the discussion, there were comparisons to restaurants in Newtown, and Doylestown. It would make no sense to say Upper Bucks is in PA but Central and Lower bucks is in Pennsylvania. Earlier disputes involved Quakertown.. but you could make similar arguments about Coatesville... Kennett Square and the like.

                                  If the board were defined by the counties, it would be abundantly clear where things belonged. THe census bureau defines the Philadelphia MSA as

                                  hiladelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD
                                  Camden, NJ Metropolitan Division

                                  Burlington Country, NJ
                                  Camden County, NJ
                                  Gloucester County, NJ

                                  Philadelphia, PA Metropolitan Division

                                  Bucks County, PA
                                  Chester County, PA
                                  Delaware County, PA
                                  Montgomery County, PA
                                  Philadelphia County, PA

                                  Wilmington, DE-MD-NJ

                                  New Castle County,DE
                                  Cecil County, MD
                                  Salem County, NJ

                                  A good argument could be made about keeping Delaware in the Mid Atlantic but I would go either way.

                                  A criteria, whatever it is, should be in my opinion, clear, and concise. Breaking up counties is neither.

                                  If you look at the way NYC is broken up, its Manhattan, the rest of the buroughs, and then the rest of the state. Westchester Rockland Dutchess etc are all lumped together including Ticonderoga, Oneonta and such. It works.. not because one belongs with the other or not.. but because it is clear.

                                  Chowhound, earlier on refused to defined what areas outside of Philadelphia county belong... I personally have had back and forth on this for over a year. I would greatly appreciate concise and clear definitions so we can move on and not allow this to be a distraction.

                                  1. re: The Chowhound Team

                                    That restaurant is in New Hope, PA, which is definitely in the Philly suburbs.

                                    1. re: The Chowhound Team

                                      If you look at the postings from the poster that wants a New Hope posting to remain on the Pennsylvania board, it appears that the poster is from New Jersey. I don't think a New Jersey poster should dictate that all Bucks County questions belong on the Pennsylvania board rather than the Philadelphia board.

                                    2. re: givemecarbs

                                      If I had seen that post on the Pennsylvania board, I would have assumed it had been incorrectly posted and that it belonged on the Philly board. As it was, I didn't see it because I rarely read the Pennsylvania board. Too bad, too, because I enjoy reading about new restaurants in the Philly area, which New Hope definitely is.

                                  1. re: The Chowhound Team

                                    See how the Northern New England board has a line under its name that lists what states that means? Could you that for the counties we decide are in the Philly Area? The consensus seems to be Bucks and Montgomery.

                                  2. From the perspective of someone on the West side of the state (though I grew up in Philly), I find it a minor annoyance to log onto the PA board and see a post asking about a place in, say, Montgomery county. Bucks as well. I think it makes more sense to group the Philly suburbs in the Philly board than it does to spill em out over the rest of the PA board. Reviews of some hot new place in Doylestown is gonna be a lot more useful to someone in Philly than to someone in Erie or Pittsburgh or State College. And let's face it - most of us on the PA board are from nowhere near Philly.

                                    1 Reply
                                    1. re: cowboyardee

                                      I, too, support identifying "metropolitan regions" as opposed to "municipal boundaries."

                                      In short, Bucks County should definitely be on the Philadelphia board as it is contiguous to Philadelphia County. On the other hand, many posts here are about establishments in Chester County, which is not. Should discussions about Chesco establishments be reassigned to the Pennsylvania board? Where do you draw the line?

                                      In the spirit of the site, we are all interested in fine dining and fine food purveyors or we wouldn't be here. The greater metropolitan region should be considered as the distance one would drive for a fine dining experience. I live in Skippack. Would I drive to New Hope, Wilmington, Kennett Square or South Jersey? Absolutely. Would a Center City resident drive to any of those places or out here? I hope so.

                                      A metropolitan "region" may not meet a by-the-book definition but, from the posts over the years, I think the Philadelphia area has been fairly well defined and mutually understood by our members. To avoid ambiguity, the Chowhound team might consider additional boards for Pittsburgh region, Central PA region, etc. that speak more to the notion of a culinary community and where people travel for an experience or a product.

                                      Such delineation may not be feasible in the expanses of Wyoming or Montana, but the more highly populated areas may enjoy a closer-to-home board. Just a suggestion.
                                      CP

                                    2. The area covered by a forum is made easier when the stickied topic, "New to the XXX board? Read this first" has a clear definition of the area a forum covers. Some of the boards have geographical boundaries that are clearly defined in that topic. This helps make sure everyone has the same idea of what area a forum covers. For example, it states in the stickied post for the Greater Seattle forum: "This board is focused on discussing chow in the Seattle area. This includes Seattle from Tacoma to Everett, along with Kirkland, Redmond, Bellevue and other cities in between."

                                      Unfortunately, the definition in the stickied post for the Philadelphia board is just poorly written. It says, "This board is focused on discussing chow in the Philadelphia area. This includes the metropolitan area, including Wilmington, as well as Camden and other close-in New Jersey suburbs of the city." Although it mentions the "metropolitan area", it doesn't clearly define the boundaries of the metropolitan area the way Seattle's definition does. It would eliminate the confusion if it listed the counties and/or otherwise noted those boundaries in some way (e.g. "from New Hope to Downingtown to New Castle", or whatever other towns constitute the outer reaches of the area). Once the boundaries are clearly stated, everyone knows what they are, and any posts placed in the wrong forum can be moved where they belong. If locals there wanted to suggest appropriate wording to more clearly indicate its area, I'm sure the Chowhound Team would be happy to edit that portion of the stickied post for the Philadelphia Area board.

                                      25 Replies
                                      1. re: nsxtasy

                                        Going by the NYC region example, we had a "General Tristate" Board a couple of years ago that was discontinued. Now the boards are drawn strictly on political State and NYC lines. It's not the demographics of the area, on NY State we have the NY suburbs of Westchester and LI on the same board as Albany and Buffalo. Northern NJ gets only about 20% of the posts on the NJ board, the rest is from Newark and south. Fairfield County CT really got short shrift when they changed the boards, discussion about that area was virtually eliminated. (And it's a big restaurant & food area) Basically the result has been less interest and participation in the NYC suburbs food scene. But I suppose they don't want "too many boards".

                                        So I guess they will do the Philly situation the same way as NYC, the boards are on political boundaries. If they allow the suburbs in NJ to be discussed on the Philly boards now, I'm surprised, it's not allowed up our way.

                                        1. re: menton1

                                          NJ and Delaware suburbs are part of the Philadelphia board.

                                          1. re: leepinleemur

                                            Unless someone from NJ objects... thats why New Hope is on the PA board rather than Philadelphia where it belongs...

                                            1. re: cwdonald

                                              Well so far, we haven't seen any rationale. I didn't see any posts here supporting that viewpoint either. We seem to pretty much be in agreement that Philadelphia is where it belongs. :)

                                              1. re: leepinleemur

                                                There may be no rationale.. but they havent moved the post back. And the person that complained didnt even have the decency to post his or her viewpoint.

                                                1. re: cwdonald

                                                  I've noticed that cwdonald. In life don't you find that sometimes the complainer is listened to and given way more power than the relatively content majority? Almost makes me want to make snide remarks about people from NJ, but that would hardly be helpful here. Tempting though. :)

                                                  1. re: givemecarbs

                                                    Well the discussion has only been here for a day. Let's give them a little time.

                                                    I almost moved it to Philly myself but then I saw this thread. Now that I posted, I don't want to take action in direct conflict with the mods. I'll let it take it's course...

                                                    1. re: leepinleemur

                                                      Regular hounds can move posts? Or only alpha and beta hounds? I'm trying to get ambrose to answer but you know the post is on the Pennsylvannia boards so ambrose might not check back for awhile. Seeing as how ambrose's posts are all about New Jersey and all. You are right though leepinleemur, it is a summer friday and ambrose may have bounced for the weekend. I gave it a shot anyway. /shrug.
                                                      http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/795031

                                                      1. re: givemecarbs

                                                        There was a thread after the reorganization where people could volunteer to help move threads to the new boards (but not the other way around).
                                                        http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/682192

                                                        1. re: leepinleemur

                                                          There's no rationale. The NYC Metro area makes no sense at all now, and has alienated many posters. Bergen County NJ and Fairfield County Ct get so little play and I know of many folks who gave up with CH.

                                                          How can a board that disallows any reporting of filthy, unsanitary conditions in a restaurant (I certainly want to know about that!) have a rationale?

                                                          1. re: menton1

                                                            I am being transparent here. I was the one that first and multiple times (7x) moved the discussion about New Hope to Philadelphia. I received a blanket statement from the editors that stated that New Hope has been determined to be in teh PA board rather than the Philadelphia board (no further explanation.).

                                                            Full disclosure.. 1. I live seven miles from New Hope in Doylestown.

                                                            2. I replied to the poster.. comparing the restaurants to Newtown and Doylestown.

                                                            3. I was annoyed by the blanked term it was determined... without explanation.

                                                            4. I have previously complained about moving posts that were in Quakertown and other places in Bucks County.

                                                            5. I will accept any policy that will be easy to explain (locale x is in .. x county and therefore belongs in) I do not believe carving up counties is easy to explain unless the guidleines describe IN DETAIL.. UNAMBIGUOUSLY where things belong..

                                                            6. I respect a commercial board with a quasi private/volunteer editorial staff groups findings.. as long as I can understand them. I resent any policy that is apparently capricious.. unexplained.. or otherwise lacking in rationale. Borders should be unambiguous. Editorial deltions etc are more in the judgement area. Borders should not be.

                                                            The NY Board organization is at least clear. (Full disclosure I was born In Brooklyn, grew up in Westchester, summered in Lake George, and went to school in Ithaca.. so I knew NY state like the back of my hand.) It may not be the easiest to navigate.. and I have no idea about how that discourages discussion.. but you cannot argue that it is not clear where something should be posted or searched for. The same cannot be said for Philadelphia. And unfortunately the chowhound editors have yet to exercies what I consider to be reasonable editorial fashion.

                                                            For example, with regard to New Hope.. no thread has been started about a new hope place of business in the pa forum after the creation of the Philadelphia forum. It was collectively understood by the people that posted there that the New Hope locale belonged in PA, a fact never taken into account by the editors of chowhound in response to both the suggestion of moving the discussion to PA, and the response by the OP. That should in and of itself represent the collective norms of the people that post most frequently (and in amy cases live in the area unlike the OP) in the forums. Easy enough to determine with a google search.

                                                            Finally, openess has a very beneficial effect on acceptance and the tenor of the discussion. Chowhound prides itself, deservedly so, on providing an open forum for the discussion or pros and cons of places to eat. They owe the equivalent to their posters, and to individuals as transparently as possible about the reasons for their editorial decisions. They will find that it goes a long way to creating greater good will, and loyalty to the site.

                                                            1. re: cwdonald

                                                              Full disclosure: Where would one post about Marlton, NJ? Moorestown, NJ? Let's be fully transparent; Haddonfield has some very good restaurants!

                                                              BTW, the state lines bear no real meaning when it comes to restaurant-goers habits-- being that you fully disclosed your familiarity with NY State, you of course realize that Rockland County restaurants are frequented as much by NJ residents as NY residents! Basing these boards on state or county lines is not in touch with reality!

                                                              1. re: menton1

                                                                >> Full disclosure: Where would one post about Marlton, NJ? Moorestown, NJ? Let's be fully transparent; Haddonfield has some very good restaurants!

                                                                If the stickied topic in the Philadelphia board were clear enough in delineating its its boundaries, then the answers to those questions would be obvious.

                                                                >> BTW, the state lines bear no real meaning when it comes to restaurant-goers habits--

                                                                Of course, there will ALWAYS be people on the border of one forum who frequently dine in the adjacent area of a different forum, no matter where you draw those boundaries. There are plenty of examples in addition to the ones you gave - such as residents of Queens who dine in Nassau County, and vice versa. The only way you can prevent that from happening is by creating one big forum for an entire metropolitan area without any intervening boundaries - putting, for example, all five NYC boroughs and all nearby counties (23 total in the official MSA defined by the OMB, in four states including one in PA) into one forum covering some 19 million people and all the restaurants there. Good luck with that.

                                                                1. re: menton1

                                                                  I actually think county lines DO define a metropolitan area. Remembering that there is always going to be issues at the borders... if you define by a clearly held criteria, it may not be perfect, but it is clear.

                                                                  I think Marlton is a great question .. Personally I find that in the gray zone,.. but I would defer to the majority. Marlton is regularly reviewed in the Philadelphia Inquirer, and almost never in the NY TImes. Moorestown, I probably would throw in the NJ bucket. But really I would want to hear from people who live there. Do they want to look across two boards, or just 1. Resoundingly we heard in the case of New Hope that folks think of it in the greater Philadelphia area. I value consensus on a board like Chowhound, and I value both consistency and transparency. The former is easier to achieve than the latter.

                                                                  So I do not think that restaurant goers habits matter to constitute the boards, I think its what the majority of the board members want (subject of course also to any economic limits that the number of boards presents to CBS Chowhound and anyone else with an economic interest in the board... ).

                                                                  I did graduate work in the Midwest, have family in the KC area, travel to that area frequently and read and sometimes contribute to Midwest board. That board works even though its across multiple states. THey have created a community there, just like the Philadelphia board and the PA board have created different communities, with frequent contributors, an openness and kind spirit that allows difference of opinion and provides gentle guidance to where to eat for those visiting the area.

                                                                  1. re: cwdonald

                                                                    >> I think Marlton is a great question .. Personally I find that in the gray zone,.. but I would defer to the majority. Marlton is regularly reviewed in the Philadelphia Inquirer, and almost never in the NY TImes. Moorestown, I probably would throw in the NJ bucket. But really I would want to hear from people who live there. Do they want to look across two boards, or just 1.

                                                                    Of course. As long as a consensus can be reached about what everyone would like as the boundaries, just describe those boundaries in the stickied topic, and there's no confusion.

                                                                    >> I did graduate work in the Midwest, have family in the KC area, travel to that area frequently and read and sometimes contribute to Midwest board. That board works even though its across multiple states.

                                                                    There is no Midwest board any more. During the last restructuring, it was split into the Great Lakes board and the Great Plains board. KC is in the latter.

                                                                    1. re: cwdonald

                                                                      I am a resident of Haddonfield. I can be downtown across the BF bridge in about 10 minutes (not in the morning of course!). I really stopped posting on the Philadelphia board because it was not made clear that the Philadelphia board also included the NJ suburbs. It did bother me when I saw people posting from Westchester and Bucks Co, clearly much further from the city than I am. It's like some some PA residents really don't realize that much of the NJ Philly suburbs are far closer to the city than many of the PA burbs. That being said, I do not confine where I eat just to NJ and frequently eat in PA, including Bucks Co. But if you read the NJ board, you routinely see postings about Collingswood, Haddonfield and other close in Philly burbs. People are clearly confused about where to post. Oh, and BTW Moorestown and Marlton are far closer to Philly than Bucks, so why would they be excluded. My point is, the naming of the 'Philadelphia' board is confusing. I agree it should be called the 'Delaware Valley' board which includes PA, NJ burbs as well as Philadelphia proper. In total agreement with 'bucksguy14'.

                                                                      I got a kick out of the Rockland County reference above. I grew up in Rockland, about 2 miles from NJ. We almost entirely did all of out shopping in NJ, except for groceries and ate out in NJ more often than we did in NY.

                                                                      1. re: mschow

                                                                        Um the statement that Moorestown and Marlton are closer to Philadelphia than Bucks county is wrong.. Bucks county BORDERS philadelphia.. so at its minimum it is inches away (Andalusia for example..)

                                                                        I think NJ is a sensitive subject given that NJ has had a history of being subsumed into metropolitan areas be it NYC or Philadelphia. Self identify has its benefits.. But I think the best point that you made was that the lack of clarity lead you to both confusion and the name of Philadelphia board itself is alienating.

                                                                        1. re: cwdonald

                                                                          I wouldn't say that NE Philly is quite the same, but I think you have similar points regardless.

                                                                          Honestly I think there have been very few issues since the switchover, which is good. It may simply create more problems, trying to define it more strictly. As we have seen below, just simply aligning counties is not so simple.

                                                                          There may always be corner cases, but perhaps just a thread to get a consensus on where it should be is enough, and then updating the description to document that decision?

                                                                          1. re: leepinleemur

                                                                            Well Northeast Philadelphia refers to a neighborhood.. all part of Philadelphia county. I think there has been general consensus that the counties of Delaware, Chester, Montgomery, Bucks and Philadelphia definitely belong. There is general consensus that northern Delaware (ie Wilmington) belongs, and then there was the question of which counties in NJ (if any) belong... I think the clear reaction is that Mercer and Hunterdon county do NOT... the question is which if any southern NJ counties might belong.

                                                                            1. re: cwdonald

                                                                              I agree, that those counties should not be in question. Large chunks of Camden/Burlington/Gloucester seem pretty clear as well.

                                                                              1. re: cwdonald

                                                                                It's a funny thing about northern DE. Although the description of the Philly board as described in the "New to the Philadelphia Board? Read this first" post includes Wilmington, I don't expect to read about Wilmington on the Philly board. To add to the confusion, the description of the Mid-Atlantic board says, "This board is focused on discussing chow in Virginia, West Virginia, Delaware and Maryland except Washington, DC and Baltimore."

                                                                                It's been my observation that posts regarding Wilmington and other Delaware towns above the canal (i.e., Hockessin, Newark) are typically found on the Mid-Atlantic board. There are some Hounds who regularly post for DE on Mid-Atlantic and for PA on the Philly board, so there is a distinction being made. I think we'd find consensus that the part of DE that's above the canal is more closely aligned with the Philadelphia region than with the Mid-Atlantic region, BUT it appears that those who post about DE, do so on the Mid-Atlantic board.

                                                                                I live just a couple of miles north of the DE state line, and I spend almost as much time shopping and dining in DE as I do in PA, but I don't find it inconvenient to peruse and/or post on the Mid-Atlantic board for Delaware-related information. And, regardless of where the CH geo-gurus have placed it, it's on the Mid-Atlantic board that you'll find the vast majority of DE posts.

                                                                            2. re: cwdonald

                                                                              Of course you are right about the counties being right next to each other. I was speaking of Center City proper. It's far further from New Hope, Doylestown (eg) to downtown than from the areas I spoke of in NJ. North/NE Philadelphia has mostly neighborhood restaurants. And I have friends in CC who regularly jump the high speed line to dine in Collingswood (a 10 minute ride), And vice versa to avoid the bridge toll and the parking cost in CC,

                                                                      2. re: cwdonald

                                                                        Re: "I received a blanket statement from the editors that stated that New Hope has been determined to be in teh PA board rather than the Philadelphia board (no further explanation.)." -- if the editors made that determination, it was clearly made subjectively, and not from having any familiarity with either New Hope or the Philly suburbs. Why single New Hope out of the rest of Bucks County for inclusion on the PA board? Having New Hope anywhere but on the Philly board would make no sense whatsoever.

                                                                        1. re: CindyJ

                                                                          This is strange CindyJ as the thread had seemed to be moved back to Philadelphia for some time now.

                                                                          1. re: leepinleemur

                                                                            Frankly, I think the whole discussion is strange.