dim sum questions
Ok, I admit it. I have never had dim sum before.
On Saturday, I will be going to a Chinatown restaurant in Boston or dim sum. I'm looking for some hints so I do not commit any significant social faux pas.
I would greatly appreciate some guidance and coaching from those experienced in the dim sum process.
How do I order? How do I know what items being pushed around on the carts?
Any suggestions about things I *must* try or should avoid? I am not an exceptionally adventurous eater.
Is the menu also available during dim sum?
What's the likelihood of dim sum items containing MSG? It's not an allergy per se so I try not to make a "big deal" out of it, but I get migraines if I consume MSG.
Thanks in advance.
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re: harryharry
It was a success! I am now proudly say that I have had dim sum. And, I appreciate the coaching of the CH Experts.
I must admit that it was a very enjoyable experience. It is a chaotic scene, but it was nice.
China Pearl was the destination.
My personal favorites:
About six different shu mai. Some were pan fried, some were steamed. All were delicious.
spring rolls
crispy fried squid
dishes of noodles with shrimp and veggies
a water chestnut cake
sweet cream buns
char siu bao ( the BBQ pork one.)Yes, they had xiao long bao...I was very excited. (and, thank you Chowhounders for teaching me to not call them "soup dumplings.") But, I love them. I really do.
I avoided the chicken feet. I wanted to like the congee, I really did. I would try it again, but I found the texture to be unpleasing...almost gloppy for lack of a more articulate descriptive term.
Best of all, no headache from the MSG. An added benefit!
And, I'm looking forward to a return trip.
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re: monku
You are totally correct that dim sum flashcards would be wonderful given that I do not speak any Asian language and attempting to discern precisely what I am eating with servers who do not speak English is a challenge.
To clarify, I enjoyed the shu mai and other types of dumplings filled with shrimp and chive, vegetables, pork and shrimp, and pork and water chestnut, I believe.
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re: alyseb
Just curious as to what type of char siu bao you had. It comes in two forms:
steamed, where the "bun" is a fluffy white, quite thick, doughy covering, and
baked, where the "bun" looks more like a traditional roll (probably like your sweet cream bun).
I like both, but I've found I prefer the baked style these days, but even my Chinese friends have difficulty telling me how to order it specifically!
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re: FrankD
I like the traditional one. I find the traditional ones take more skill to make. The traditional steam one is called "Char Siu Bao / 叉燒包". Bao means bun. The sweet, western influenced baked bun is called "Char Siu Chan Bao / 叉燒餐包". Chan Bao means meal bun --- referring dinner roll.
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I agree with the posters who recommend the "just go and enjoy yourself" route. As many have mentioned, dim sum is an informal type of service, not much different from Sunday brunch for a number of American families. Unless you're picking your nose at the table, there's really not much in social faux pas that you need to worry about. When my Chinese family and I used to go out for dim sum, we were usually too busy talking or flagging down the cart ladies to notice what people at other tables were doing.
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Watch for the little custard tarts. These are not at all exotic, but the pastry is often exquisite and the most reluctant eater should be very happy with them, no exotica at all in their flavors. A big yes, also, to the char siu bao, fluffy white bread-type things that because they're steamed don't brown. Inside is barbecued (Chinese-style barbecue, of course) pork, absolutely yummy. It's a good way to explore the food.
And for crying out loud, if you're by yourself, go right ahead. The first maybe ten times I ate dim sum, I was by myself, in cities across the US and London, and I never got any strange looks or ill treatment. A little brusque at times, but that seemed to be being true for the tables around me. Go for it!
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As soon as you sit down the waiter will come over and mumble what kind of tea you want. There is a tea/set up charge of a buck or two per person (includes kids and infants), no way around it.
Don't be afraid to say "no thank you,' if there's something you don't like or afraid to experiment with. You didn't say if you were going alone or with other people, but it's pretty easy to over order. Looks like feet or organ parts it probably is. If you see something you might like just get it because it might not come around again. The regular menu is always available so if you want something off the menu order it from the waiter and expect to wait for it.
Assume everything will have MSG in it, don't even bother to ask...you've been warned. Consume plenty of water, I hear that cut's down on the MSG effect. Or make sure you have your Tylenol with you.
When you're finished flag down the waiter for you bill, don't wait for it. They won't automatically bring it because many people linger around. When the waiter presents you with the bill be prepared to pay right then and there if it's a busy place.
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re: monku
Thank you all for your explanations. I appreciate your responses and helpful hints. I read the link to the guide, it was great.
The must- have dishes sound delicious. I love dumplings. Do they have soup dumplings at dim sum? But, I'm not so sure about the chicken feet though.
I apologize for asking "red flag" questions. To clarify, I am willing to try new experiences--I have just not had the opportunity to go to dim sum and am really looking forward to it. Although I am not an adventurous eater, I will try *most* things once for the experience.
I will be going with someone who has been to Chinatown dim sum before and he selected the restaurant so that it an advantage.
And, as for the MSG, I will risk a headache for the experience, it certainly seems like it's going to be interesting and delicious.
Thanks again.
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re: taiwanesesmalleats
Tawianese,
There are different soup dumplings. There are the dumplings where they bath in soup, wonton is as such, right?
There are the xiao long bao you mentioned.
Those are not really unique to dim sum as you know. The infamous ones are the soup filled dumpling (灌湯餃). This includes for example, shake fin soup filled dumpling (魚翅灌湯餃) and others. Absolutely wonderful. Considered the elite of Dim Sum. I highly recommend you to try it, Taiwanesesmalleats.
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re: Chemicalkinetics
Sigh. This why I am annoyed when people call xiao long bao soup dumplings. Only confusion ensues. I know what wontons are. And I know exactly what those shark fin dumplings are too.
I surmise that 90% of the time on the boards when people ask about soup dumplings, it isn't for dumplings in soup. It's for xiao long bao which are NOT dumplings. I also personally don't call wontons, soup dumplings, even in soup. I call it wonton soup.
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re: ipsedixit
Hi Taiwan and ipsed,
Well, "dumplings" are probably a good easy way to communicate with people who have never had Chinese foods. You got to start somewhere. Calling Wonton as dumplings is not bad, in my opinion. But calling Xiao Long Bao as dumplings is a bit too much for me because Xiao Long Bao are really more buns than dumplings, so I think it is probably not the best term.
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re: Chemicalkinetics
The problem is if people start calling all those things "dumplings" you run into problems when if they go into a restaurant and ask for dumplings. It creates this idea in people's heads that a dumpling is a catch-all when it really isn't. I'd much rather teach people the correct term so they can distinguish the various food items. What's difficult about teaching someone what a wonton is? I'm just personally a fan of doing things correctly the first time around.
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re: harryharry
Harryharry,
They are dumplings of course, by definition in fact. As you pointed out, it is a very general term which describes many international foods from Italian to Chinese to Indian to...
The challenge comes from it is indeed a very general term. So there are many things in Chinese cuisine which can fit easily to the word dumplings. As such, you may not get exactly what you want when you ask for "dumpling". Imagine if I go to an Italian restaurant and ask for "pasta", well, I will probably get different kind of pasta evey time.
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re: harryharry
That's because the phrase soup dumplings has become ingrained into how people order and Chinese restaurants have followed suit in order to sell their product. The reason soup dumplings should not be known as dumplings is because they are xiao long bao. When one speaks of dumplings in the Chinese sense, they are meant to refer to jiao tze which end up either boiled, steamed or pan fried. Dumplings are more a Northern item using flour dough. Xiao long bao are Shanghai in origin. The weird thing is that bao or buns as they're translated into English, tend to use a risen dough but xiao long bao do not use risen dough. They are neither true dumplings in the jiao tze sense nor fully baos. They are xiao long bao, a unique creation.
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re: ipsedixit
that is the most condescending possible answer. try to explain it to me, and allow us both to see if i could understand, or shockingly, even appreciate the difference.
if the only difference is the words used in chinese, then there is no real difference. if there is an actual physical difference i think you should be able to state what those differences are.
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re: thew
I already explained the difference in my above posting. It's a matter of type of dough used and an issue of shape. Xiao long bao are neither fully "dumplings" nor are they fully baos. In my mind they're a weird hybrid of the two and as such, I prefer using their specific name rather a generic term that doesn't tell the full picture. Therefore, I call them xiao long bao.
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re: taiwanesesmalleats
Yet, Xiao Long Bao's Chinese name is as confusing as it can be. They are not the typical "bao"/buns, yet they are called as such. So how come it is ok to refer it using a generic Chinese word: Bao, and not a generic English words like dumplings. In fact, it is more of a dumpling than a bun, isn't it?
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re: Chemicalkinetics
That's probably a better question than why aren't they dumplings. I think it's because they actually look more like baos than a dumpling. If you were to bring XLB and ask a Chinese person if they were dumplings, using Chinese, I'd think you'd get a funny look. They'd probably say it's more reminiscent of a bao, but with unrisen skin. I don't know the full evolution of XLB, but I think it's a derivative of the tang bao, or soup bun.
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re: thew
thew,
Apologies if you took my post the wrong way; certainly not meant to be condescending in any manner. Just trying to point out that unless you grew up eating dumplings and making them it's really hard to explain it in English.
It sort of like asking an Italian why focaccia isn't technically considered pizza.
Cheers!
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re: alyseb
If you're with a friend who's done it before, you should be okay. FYI, the "Big Four" items to have in a dim sum restaurant are:
1) siu mai - usually come in a basket of four. These are steamed little dumplings made of a mixture of minced pork & shrimp, topped with the minutest dollop of orange shrimp roe;
2) har kow - these come in a basket of three: steamed shrimp dumplings wrapped in pretty, translucent rice-flour wrappers;
3) char-siu bao - come in threes as well: steamed barbecued-caramelised pork buns;
4) loh mai kai - steamed glutinous rice wrapped in lotus leaf, the rice is flavored/filled with stewed pork/chicken.Besides starting off with these 4, you may want to try these other basic options:
5) Cheong fun, long rolls of steamed rice noodles. These may contain either barbecued pork (char-siu) or shrimps, or even scallops in some restaurants.
6) Rice congee - these are savory Chinese rice porridge, usually flavoured with chicken/pork/ginger. -
re: alyseb
Go to dim sum... alone or with friends. Don't let any of the naysayers here dissuade you.
Unless you grab food off the carts (although I have seen older Chinese women do that when something that sells out fast comes around) or stand up and scream "What the hell is all this crazy food?!"... You really won't make any mistakes that are of any consequence.
You're not Chinese, I'm assuming, so no one will expect you to understand everything , especially the language.
I'm a white Jewish girl from NYC now living in LA... I eat dim sum monthly. Alone or in groups. You'll LOVE it. Go... point at what looks interesting... try stuff even if you have no idea what it is. You'll have fun and be full I guarantee!
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Going to dim sum alone would be a social faux pas.
Other than that, pretty much anything else goes.
And it would probably also behoove you to go with someone who is Chinese and speaks the language (either Cantonese or Mandarin). Mitigates the probability that you'll get shafted by the cart ladies, assuming it's cart-style and not menu-style.
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re: howlin
The origin of dim sum came from communal times of drinking tea. The food was meant to accompany the tea as snacks. Dim sum is very much a bonding time and it's very traditional for people to do so in families. Even though dim sum is more enjoyable with a group, I find that a group over 6-8 is difficult, especially when it's filled with less adventurous folk who are not willing to dive into the really good stuff like phoenix talons and stewed intestine. This isn't to say you can't go alone. It's just more fun.
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re: taiwanesesmalleats
thats why i said the more the better.but i felt that ipsedixits statement was oppressive .i travel a bit alone and am always hesitant to try someplace because im solo,usaully i force myself,but when somebody actually says its"wrong"to do something like that i get ....miffed..comprende?
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re: limster
Actually, I wonder ... is there an optimal number of diners for dim sum?
Would it be 3 because many dishes (i.e. shumai, baos, etc.) come in multiples of 3 -- although many dishes are not so easily divisible like the bamboo wrapped glutinous rice or the Chinese brocoli (gai lan).
Would it be something like 8-10 so you can get one of this big tables with the lazy susan?
Hmmm....
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re: ipsedixit
Ipse,
In my opinion, 3-4 is still the optimal numbers, not really just from the food point of view, which really is secondary. It is also about the chance to get a table and the ability to talk to each other and all. The idea of getting exactly the same number of foods for everyone is overrated because that in fact, goes against the Yum Char spirit. We are not talking about Western dining where everyone has to get the same number of foods. If you get 4 Siu Ma for 3 people, I am sure somone can have an extra piece. If you have order a two lotus leaf wrap glutinous rice, I am sure people can share that and someone may not even want it anyway. (Is that what you mean by bamboo wrapped glutinous rice?)
Seriously. Think about any challenge you have experienced in Yum Char. How many times have you gone home and say "Man, someone ate two Siu Ma and I only ate one!" vs "Man, we stood there for 25 min because there was no table for party of 12" vs "Man, I couldn't see what the carts were carrying because I was sitting on the far side of the huge 12 people table" vs "Man, I couldn't hear what Joe was saying because he sat so far away and the restaurant background was so loud"
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re: PeterL
PeterL,
I know. It is accepted to have single diner, but often you will get paired up with other people if you are in a busy Dim Sum place.
As for birds, there are two kinds, the singing kind and the fighting kind. If you think highly valued bird = no fighting, then I like to ask you think: "Dog Fighting". Dogs which participate in dog fights are extremely valuable. They worth much more than normal dogs. Same as cock fighting, cocks which fight actually are sold at much higher price than a normal chicken.
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re: ipsedixit
I've seen some old dudes (who appear to be regulars) hog a table for two all to themselves, and all they have is a pot of tea at least for the first 1.5 hours, with newspaper (no bird), and this is in the USA. Bird or not, there are cultural exceptions.
Also eating dim sum solo isn't a bad thing. I've done it a few times, although yes it is more fun to have another person so you can have more variety.
On the flipside, Northern dim sum, let's take that example. How many of you have piggeg out and consume one whole steamer of xiaolongbao to yourself at a Shanghainese type restaurant? Japanese tourists who travel solo do this at Din Tai Fung Taipei, and I've seen some big hungry dudes eat two steamers of DTF at the one in Arcadia. It is also perfectly acceptable to have northern dim sum by yourself...whether it's a hot soymilk with fried cruller stick, or a sticky rice roll.
I think in terms of practicality, it is more challenging being able to go to a hot pot restaurant and eat the meats and vegetables all by yourself (unless it is Taiwan or China or HK, where you can have a personalized mini hot pot, or some shabu restaurant in the US that offers individual size). Dim sum at least going solo you can control yourself.
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By yourself? I suggest you go early, like when the place opens. A single person can't really enjoy too many dishes. You need at least another person, maybe 9 other persons, to share with you so you can taste as many different dishes as you can. Yes the regular menu will also be available, but why bother? MSG depends on which restaurant. If they don't specify no MSG, it's likely they'll use it.
First thing they'll ask you is what kind of tea? You may want to have something in mind, such as jasmine, chrystimum, po'er, etc.
Does this restaurant has cart service? If so you can ask to see what's inside the containers. Usually I order har gau (shrimp dumplings), shui mai (port dumplings), char shui bao (steamed or baked BBQ pork buns), sticky rice wrapped in lotus leaves, etc.
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If you want to attend a dim sum mean in Chinatown, then you should go there with at least one person who is very familiar with it. If you are not an adventurous person, you definitely should not go alone.
Dim Sum items have a good likelihood containing MSG.
To be honest, I won't recommend you to go there just from the questions you have posts. Almost every single question is like a red flag.
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re: Chemicalkinetics
LOL! I agree with you.
However, if alyseb decided to discount your advice & brave it, maybe she can look at this little dim sum guide (from SF's Ton Kiang): http://www.tonkiang.net/Dim%20Sum.html -
re: Chemicalkinetics
I completely disagree with you...If Alyseb never tries new things how will he/she expand her/his horizons?? Most of the dishes I've had for dim sum weren't scary or gross.
Alyseb...you be brave and try this new experience of dim sum. Most of the waitress/waiters can steer you to dishes that you will enjoy. Good luck and happy eating.
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re: KristieB
Kristie,
Did I actually say "Alyseb please do not ever tries new things"? Did I say "Dim sum dishes are scary and gross"? I grew up Yum Cha 飲茶 as young as I can remember and have great respect of it. I have eaten Hong Kong Canontese Dim Sum to Northern Chinese Dim Sum. I certainly do not think any is scary or gross. I enjoy the back fermented bean chicken feet as much as the vinegar dipping chicken feet. Of course, what I really love is the Pig & Chicken Blood (However, I must say I have not find any good Pig &Chicken Blood in the East Coast). So, please stop the straw man arguments about I told Alyset to never try new things or that Dim Sum dishes are gross.
I am giving a honest reply. If a person said I like to try to "this" but also prefer not to have A, B and C, and yet A, B and C closely associate with "this"...
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re: Chemicalkinetics
I wouldn't go THAT far. Certainly the OP should be fine with things like steamed veggies and fried rice, and dumplings of different kinds.
However, the OP needs to ask herself if this sensitivity to MSG is serious, meaning, will the OP will absolutely get a migraine from MSG, or is this something less than that. I have been known to get a headache myself from too much MSG (usually from Chinese soups), but it has never bothered me after eating dim sum. If it is a big issue, don't bother and I agree it is a big red flag. .
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Dim sum is pretty informal, especially if it's cart service. (If it's menu service, it's usually a little nicer - cloth tablecloths instead of plastic, for example.) At most places, they'll slap a pot of tea down on the table, along with a small plate, tea cup, and chopsticks. You'll have to speak up if you want something else to drink, or need a knife and fork.
When the carts come by, it's perfectly acceptable to ask the cart lady to lift up the lids on steamers and take a look. Note that there will not be much beef - pretty much everything is chicken, pork, or seafood. And they may use parts that turn you off (like chicken feet or pig intestines).
Standards include "shui mai" (ground pork wrapped in cabbage, usually with some fish roe on top), spare ribs in black bean sauce, "har gow" (shrimp in a light wrapper), sticky rice with bits of pork and veg wrapped in a lotus leaf, cheong fun (sheets of rice noodle rolled around various meats - they'll look like white cigars), char siu bao (a bun which is either steamed or baked, and filled with BBQ pork - my fave), taro or turnip cake - this is mashed up taro or turnip mixed in with some chopped veg, and then cut into rectangles and pan fried. Taro cake is usually served with a hot chili sauce - be careful!
Other dumplings may be offered ( a common one includes pork and peanuts), and you'll probably see tiny spring rolls. Things that might set you back include chicken feet, and whole baby cuttlefish (often in a curry sauce). Some places offer deep fried squid and fried noodles off the cart; others make you order it as a "special". You can almost always get various types of congee - a rice porridge - again, usually as a special. If a dish requires a special sauce, it is provided with the dish, but usually, red chili sauce and hot mustard are on the table as well.
Larger dishes are not offered on the carts, but can be ordered off the menu. However, the beauty of dim sum is most plates only have three or four dumplings, buns, etc. on them.If you don't like something, it's not like you wasted $10 on the dish; most are between $2-3 per plate. So it's not considered bad form to select something, try a bit, and just leave the rest if you don't like it. Note: If you're in a large party, people may ask for three or four plates of something at once because you never know if it's going to show up again!
People tend to start eating as soon as the food hits the table. It's good form to refill your neighbour's tea cup before you fill your own. If the tea pot is empty or nearly so, lift off the top and place it to one side. If your chopstick skills need work, pick up the plate or steamer, move it close to your plate, and slide the item onto the plate; it looks pretty bad to lean halfway across the table and stab ineffectually at something. (And don't be embarrassed to ask for a knife and fork if you need it; no one will think the less of you.) If a dish is ordered for the table, it will usually be presented with its own pair of chopsticks or a serving spoon/fork. You use the provided chopsticks to transfer food to your plate or bowl, and then use your own sticks to eat it. It's considered bad form to use your own chopsticks to root around in the communal dish.
Finally, if the place does have plastic tablecloths and it's busy, don't be surprised if, as you are standing up to leave, a waiter scurries over, picks up the corners, and clears the entire table in an instant, then motions over a waiting party before you even have your coats on. It's all about the turnover, baby!
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re: FrankD
WOW, I just had to jump in here re some chopsticks. NEVER "Stab" anything with chopsticks, it's considered so rude that a whole room can stop to stare at you in horror.
And never place your end of the chopsticks in a community bowl to take something out, you reverse them to the end you did *not* put in your mouth (make sense now?) and use that to gently take out an exact piece, rooting around is very bad form true. That said.Be gentle on yourself, observe and let that help guide you. I am sure your friend will as well.
I greatly prefer the cart service places. Depending on places and times, these can be loud and boisterous, in fun hectic large family dinner kinda way, focus is on food not decor. Do not be surprised if you are a party of two and you are shown to a table for 10. Other people will be shown to the table as well to fill it, or you will be shown to a table to help fill one. You politely share the space, most often gently being invisible to each other. Needless to say that observing is not staring. Do one not the other.Since you are very open to the experience both as a dining style and taste: if the food looks good to you, try it! If your friend says it is good, try it. If the cart woman keeps giving you a very subtle look of "You really don't want this", trust that. They have a good deal of experience knowing what "new" people might not like or want to try. chicken feet are obvious, snails are obvious, other parts you might not want to try might not be so obvious on the dishes. If you taste something you do not like, it's OK.
yes assume MSG,I think you will have a great time and become a fan!
Sorry for the writing style, I am up way too early in the Am by mistake.
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re: Quine
This isn't a chopsticks etiquette thread- there's been a few of them the last couple of years. But (gently) stabbing items and using the business end of chopsticks for communal dishes is common for casual dining, public or private, with family or close friends. And actually, reversing your chopsticks in close company may be seen as an awkward hygiene fetish akin to passing a bottle to someone for a drink and having them make a scene of rubbing it clean with a napkin before they take a sip themselves. Rooting around for tasty items is of course bad form, but towards the end of the meal when people get full and have already tried the dish, it's not unusual.
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