New All Clad Stainless d5 line at W-S?

[souvenir]

I received a piece of All Clad stainless for Christmas that I am not sure I want to keep. It came from Williams-Sonoma, so I went to the web to look at other options, I discovered that they no longer had the regular AC SS line; now they have an "exclusive" AC d5 SS, which of course is even more expensive than the old SS line.

Does anyone have any pieces of both the old and the new? If yes, have you found d5 to perform better? Ad copy claims "20% faster heating and more consistent results."

Most of my AC SS pieces are 5-7 years old and I've been happy with their performance . My current thinking is that if I decide I to return the pan, I'll simply return it and go elsewhere to buy another piece of the old line, but thought I would check to see if anyone had tried the d5 yet.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences, -sou

[foodchow]

I read through this thread and may get myself some All Clad d5 pots and pans.

I was looking at the Williams Sonoma web site and am a bit confused -- I think people touched upon the difference between the d5 LTD2 that is anodize aluminum versus the d5 stainless steel, but what is the difference between the d5 Stainless steel versus d5 brushed stainless steel?

Is it looks only?

[juliannep]

What's the difference in d5 as and brushed? Is there one besides look and price?

[olympia]

Nope.

[lehickey]

d5 refers to the number of layers. The new brushed has 5 layers, same as the d5 ss. The only difference is, as you say, look and price.

[hobbybaker]

Just heads up.

I 've heard that the 10 piece set of d5 is now sold at WS outlet with discount (but no individual pieces).

Also heard, many SS, coppercore, brush stainless steel items were there last weekend at the outlet stores for 30% off including Saute pans, sauciers, 6 qt french braisers etc etc. The 4 qt SS saute/simmer pan was $89 (!)

I checked cookwarenmore and noticed that d5 brush SS and LTD2 pieces are now sold there.

Just for someone looking for d5 and deals of the existing product lines!

[adamlau]

Too bad only the d5 in SS comes equipped with the flared pouring rim. I picked up the 7 pc. d5 set from a local WS and added the 12" d5 fry pan and 2 qt. d5 saucepan (I have absolutely no need for the 8 qt. stockpot). The increased handle clearance is a definite bonus.

[Seitan]

If the new D5 cookware has 5 layers, it must be heavier than 3 layers. If it is heavier, does this mean it heats up more slowly? I wonder if anyone has both pans and could test whether bringing a pot of water to boil, for example, is the same, slower or faster between the new D5 and the old classic all-clads. You would need to use the same size pot, the same amount and temperature of water to start, and use the same heating element.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Seitan,

I thought about that, but it appears they made the 5 layers with each layer thinner than the classic All-Clad stainless steel, so the heat conduction is actually slightly faster -- according to specifications. Yes, otherwise, it will heat up slower.

[Seitan]

But overall, the D5s do seem heavier, and so must be thicker, even if each layer is thinner. So I wonder if the heat conduction is the same. If it's similar, I wonder how it compares to, say, the Coppr Core line. (?)

[Chemicalkinetics]

Seitain,

Really? I take your words for it. Hmm, I guess it can be slightly heavier even it is the same pan thickness. You see, the standard stainless steel All Clad is this: stainless steel interior, aluminum core, stainless steel exterior. d5 is: SS, aluminum, SS, aluminum, SS. So there is a bit more SS in d5. Because stainless steel is heavier than aluminum by weight-to-volume, the d5 will probably weight just a touch heavier if the pans are exactly the same thickness, but you shouldn't able to tell by holding it. We are talking about very small weight difference -- very small.

http://www.allcladstainlessd5.com/#/T...

The thing is that All Clad used to claim that the d5 heats up faster, which I have difficulty to understand. Without altering the construction too much, putting an extra layer of stainless steel in the core will only slow down heat conduction. In fact, that is the whole purpose having the steel in between the aluminum: to slow down the heat going vertical and promote lateral heat spread -- thus slightly better heat distribution. So, I didn't not understand how it can both slow down vertical heat conduction and heats up faster. Anyway, All Clad used to claim that, but I cannot find that anymore. Now, the claim is "d5 line is 20% more efficient than its tri-ply predecessors" instead of "20% faster" which I have read before.

Now, because d5 has better heat distribution (lateral) than the standard triply, it is possible for you turn the knob on your stove higher and maintain the same heat distribution, and since you can use a higher heat setting on d5, you can be heat up faster, but that would be a really strange way to define "heating faster". I don't know.

[randallhank]

great post. dead on. I don't think most All-Clad owners understand the principles at work regarding the stainless.

[liljuicy]

Has anyone had any experience between the d5 LTD2 (which has the black exterior) vs. the d5 SS? We are trying to decide between the two and having a hard time. The LTD2 is supposed to be a little faster in terms of heating up, but otherwise the only difference seems to be the look (SS vs. hard-anodized satin-black appearance.) Any thoughts on which will handle and last better in the long run?

[Miss Priss]

Don't know if this is important to you, but it appears that the LTD2--just like the original LTD--won't work on induction cooktops, whereas the SS will.

[Chemicalkinetics]

I think. I think LTD2 may have better heat distribution as well as faster heat response. LTD2 will probably "look" better in the long run. In addition, d5 cookware have the new smoother handle and have the flared rim for easy pouring.

[grnidkjun]

I have one piece of the original LTD and I don't notice a huge difference in heat up time.. it might be a little faster but it's a bit negligible.

The LTD2 is now dishwasher safe.. so just thinking it comes down to personal preference on style and as mentioned by others, if you have or might ever consider induction.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Hi Grnidkjun,

Thanks. I were referring that LTD2 probably has a faster heat response than the new d5. Are you refering that there is no huge difference in heat time between LTD and LTD2 or LTD and d5?

[grnidkjun]

that I don't think there is a huge difference from LTD to LTD2 as my understanding is the LTD2 exterior was just somehow made dishwasher proof.

If I'm correct there.. and compare my LTD to the SS original that I currently have.. I don't see a noticible difference in heat up time from the LTD to original SS. Both work great.

So my personal thoughts are, if I don't see a difference in heat up time from LTD vs. Orig SS.. and if LTD2 vs LTD only diff is dishwasher safe..
I would reason that heat up time from LTD2 vs d5SS would be negligible as well and it would boil down to personal preference on appearance/induction capability as they are both dishwasher safe and have stainless interior.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Grnid,

You know. I think you are right. I think the difference will be small. Nonetheless, Williams Sonoma and All Clad claim d5 is noticeably faster (heating) than the 3-ply SS. Thanks for your personal testimony.

[liljuicy]

Thanks for all the input. I have done some additional research and it seems that the features that the d5 has (easier lip for pouring, bigger handles) are really only the SS version of the d5. The LTD2 does have the 5 layers but not the other features.

Now i am thinking about Demeyere instead. I have read here that is a level beyond the All Clad, and think that might be the way to go. Especially because I just do not understand why the handles on All Clad pans are so uncomfortable!!!

[Chemicalkinetics]

Lilijuicy,

Yes, LTD2 came out much earlier so it never adapted the comfortable handle and flared rim. It is a mystery why All Clad maintains that uncomfortable handle for so long. Good luck.

[souvenir]

Here is the follow up to my original post. I went to W-S a few days ago to return the gift and to check out the d5 line. Comparing the old SS line to the new d5 line, I did find differences. The handles do seem to be much improved, not only in the long-handled pots, but also in the short handled ones. They do also seem to be heavier, which I can't say is a plus, merely an observation.

I ended up deciding to try out a d5 piece: the 3 quart SS sauteuse. It's about 10.5 inches in diameter and 2.5 inches high, with two short handles. The handle on the lid has more clearance to the top than the earlier SS line. I'll try to remember to report back on performance after I have used it several times and feel as though I have enough information to compare it to the old line.

[breadchick]

I just bought the grill pan made by DeBuyer. Took me less than one hour to season it to being so non-stick that I actually grilled an egg. My husband loves eggs, so I thought that would be the ultimate test. A fried egg - easy over.

Totally non-stick. Egg slid around like nothing. In a grill pan.

As usual, the potato peel seasoning worked like a charm. The surface was slick and ready to go. One hour or so into it.

I love these pans.

[hobbybaker]

Hi, Souvenir
Please keep us posted.
I am interested in buying a saucier if they make it in the D5 product line neare future as it has a nice curved edge for pouring.

[souvenir]

Will do. I've only used it once so far. So far, I can't say that I've noticed faster performance than the earlier SS line, but I do like all the handle improvements (pot and lid) and the curved edge. I too am curious about d5 sauciers; I hope they get them in soon.

[herring]

Hi souvenier. Just wondering if you could update us on your experience w/the D5 3qt sauteuse. I like the short handles (easier to maneuver on my tiny stovetop and a better fit for my tiny oven). Plus, at $140, it's considerably cheaper than the SS saute pan and might be worth it even if it's not noticeably faster/better/whatever.

[souvenir]

I really like the short handles, 10.5 inch diameter, straight sides. Sometimes I think it does cook faster, other times it seems just about the same as my older AC SS. I've used it on the stove top and in the oven. The redesign of the short handles- they are bigger and stand further away from the pan itself, is an improvement when pulling it out of the oven. For your situation (tiny stovetop and oven), I would much rather have this piece than a long-handled saute. Hope this helps!

[herring]

Thanks!

[NickM]

I too decided to try a d5 4 quart simmer pan which seemed well-priced at W-S. I have several All Clad SS pieces, and, suspicious of W-S's claims, I agonized over whether to exchange this one for an All Clad SS; ultimately I kept the d5 to try it, and found it delivered remarkably consistent control in evenly browning chicken thighs dusted in flour. I'd like to attribute the excellent results solely to my masterful technique, but I think I might be kidding myself...

[bobbyboi]

@souvenir I believe d5 SS long handles are very similar to the long handles found on All-Clad Copper-Core

[cutipie721]

I got my 3-ply SS stuff just last year and I hated the fact that they don't have a pouring lip :-(

I almost killed myself when they claimed the lip as a "feature"

[Chemicalkinetics]

Cutiepie,

Ha ha ha. Yes, the flared rim is helpful, but how much are you willing to pay extra for that feature.

[cutipie721]

$0.00 I think any reputable cookware manufacturer should have thought of this. I just can't believe that they advertise it as a "feature".

Oh well, I buy most of my stuff from the outlet anyway, meaning it will probably take another year or two before I see them there.

I got a set of deBuyer carbon steel fry pans for Christmas this year. I am also very happy with these 1-ply cookware :-)

[Chemicalkinetics]

Cutiepie,

:) Here is something you will find interesting. Calphalon has a stainless steel cookware line called Triply and the a newer line one called Contemporary. Triply is slightly cheaper and has a flared rim.

http://www.amazon.com/Calphalon-Tri-Ply-Collectors-3-Quart-Chefs/dp/B00005ULQD/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1262470728&sr=8-2

The newer and better looking Contemporay line actually lost the flared rim.

http://www.amazon.com/Calphalon-Conte...

Yep, I have a bunch of 1-ply cookware. One 1-ply carbon steel wok, one 1-ply clay pot, one 1-ply cast iron skillet, two 1-ply cast iron Dutch ovens, .... :P

I do have a Calphalon triply saucepan.

Congrat on your carbon steel frying pans from deBuyer. I heard they are very good stuffs.

[breadchick]

Guess I don't have to tell you that the deBuyer pans rock. If I knew about these pans before buying the All Clad, I could have saved major bucks. They season like a dream, nothing sticks - not even eggs. They blacken up in a very short time. Crank the heat - no problem. Broil, no problem. I have a dual fuel, so I can really sear on the stove and finish in the oven.

My future grandchildren will be able to use these pans. I got mine from Chef's Catalog (I should own that company by now) and only wish they offered more of the different pans I see from the deBuyer website.

Clean up is a quick rinse with super hot tap water, a green scrubby removes the bits, heat on the stove for a minute to remove any water and good to go.

Workhorses, absolutely.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Breadchick,

I do not have a deBuyer pan, but aren't deBuyer carbon steel pan a complete different breast compared to an All-Clad triply pan. Carbon steel pans have great heat response and essentially non-stick, while stainless triply pans have great heat capacity and even heating surface.

[breadchick]

Sorry, I'm new to the site, so thought I was responding to Cutiepie. Yes, they are a completely different beast. But I find that these pans heat evenly and sear much better than my All Clad fry and sautee pans. I think it's the fact that I can crank the heat to get the sear and they're literally non-stick from the get go.

I have an extensive collection of All Clad pots/stock pots, etc. But have been so impressed with these deBuyer pans that I'll sing praises if it means someone can save some money.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Breadchick,

Yes, you were responding to Cutiepie, but I felt like interrupting. Thanks for your inputs. Maybe I should get a deBuyer carbon steel saute pan.

[breadchick]

No problem, thank you. The other reason I love these pans is that although they're a bit hefty, they have a handle that is very comfortable. I truly wish someone would tell the All Clad folks to redesign that skinny handle.

I've seen that Chef's is offering a mineral version. I have the original white carbon steel. I have the three regular sizes, and bought the 14 inch. Sadly, that elephant had to be returned - it was way to heavy for me.

Try one. I hope you're delighted.

[Loki]

have you felt the d5 pans? they finaly fixed the handles. I have allclad SS and hate the handles. I'm gonna wait till they discontinue the SS line and throw my pans in the pizza oven till the layers seperate and call the warranty line for some pans with comfortable handles.

-Loki

[cutipie721]

http://www.all-clad.com/collections/S...

All-Clad Cookware Lifetime Warranty:
From date of purchase, All-Clad guarantees to repair or replace any item found defective in material, construction or workmanship under normal use and following care instructions. This excludes damage from misuse or abuse. Minor imperfections and slight color variations are normal.

They maybe nice enough to exchange one for you. However, if more people follow you as an example, they're just going to drive up the cost of their products to make up for this kind of losses. Sorry to sound blunt.

[blondelle]

That won't work as they keep a several year backlog of stock to replace their 3 ply under their warranty. Where do you think all the older stock of 3 ply from WS went? Back to All-Clad!

[Chemicalkinetics]

Cutiepie and Breadchick,

Which line of deBuyer pans did you get? I just found out there are four lines (at least):

Carbonne Plus
Force Blue
La Lyonnaise
Mineral

[cutipie721]

Mine are from the Carbone Plus Steel line
http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/2...

They used to have a set of 3 of 8", 10", and 12" for $13x last month but I guess they're out of stock for the moment.

My first use of the pan was *gasp* scramble eggs. It wasn't really non-stick. I was really impressed by how easily the eggs got removed from the pan!! See attached pic for what was stuck. I suspect if I use just a little bit more oil, nothing would have been stuck at all. Clean up was a breeze - some hot water and gentle scrub. I can't wait to use it till it becomes nonstick.

I can't use the calphalon stuff cuz they're not induction compatible.

I also wish I knew about de Buyer and Mauviel Mcook (for a very valid reason I thought they only made copper cookware which is not induction compatible) before I jumped into AC. But I got my 8-piece a la carte from the outlet for $300 so I can't really complain.

[breadchick]

Based on the DeBuyer site, it would be the Carbonne Plus, I assume. Chef's Catalog, it's listed as carbon steel - not mineral, which is new.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Thanks Cutiepie and Breadchick,

I am now reading the four lines and trying to figure what the differences are. It seems thickness is one big distinction, though there are difference in material as well, like blue steel vs virgin steel. Not 100% what blue steel means here. In Japanese cutlery, white steel is pure carbon steel is pure carbon steel, whereas blue steel is carbon steel plus chromium and tungsten, but here blue steel may mean something else. I am going to ask the consumer service.

[breadchick]

My pans are heavy, and very thick. I believe deBuyer does make a line of cheaper pans - I mistakenly ordered one from Amazon at a lower price, and it wasn't the same quality as my previous purchases. I returned it.

As mentioned earlier, I got the 8" 10" & 12" from Chef's Catalog and they're described as white carbon steel. Price range from $29 - $59. I see the 10" isn't available. I find I use the 12" constantly and wish I ordered 2 of them. (One for veg and one for protein.)

These deBuyer pans are a wonderful compromise - not as heavy as cast iron, yet they season wonderfully and are completely non-stick.

Sadly, the deBuyer site shows other pans that I can't seem to find in the states. Which is probably good for my budget - ha.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Souvenir,

I saw the same ad. I do not have the d5 (5-ply) and not plan to get one. Like all advertisements, they make it as if we really “need” to have these d5 to cook.

Well, in that case why not the 7-ply:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RIC6KW/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00008W717&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1HYQ8EJ52HHWW09GA4X9

http://www.amazon.com/Mauviel-MCook-Stainless-Steel-Frying/dp/B002KQ66DC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1262457689&sr=1-4

Or the 9ply cookware:

http://www.royalprestige.com/ProductPages/Accessories/9PlyAccessories.aspx

http://www.giftwarehouse.com/kt915.html

Or the 11-ply from Vita Craft....

I am very happy with my 1-ply cookware.

[souvenir]

Ck- Wow, I had no idea that 9 and 11 ply pieces were made. I am actually curious to see and lift these pieces. I have a variety of styles and manufacturers, but do have more of AC SS than anything else and have been very happy with their performance.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Souvenir,

I do not think these high ply are much heavier because each layer is made thinner. All Clad d5 is not 166% as heavy as the previous triply.

We have high multiply for a long time. My mom is all into a 5-ply stir-fry pan and I am still using a normal carbon steel stir-fry pan. All Clad is a good company, but the race for high multiply is unnecessary. I understand the logic behind going from 3-ply to 5-ply. The theory is not new. It is to alternative between high and low conductivity metals. In this case, steel-aluminum-steel-aluminum-steel. The middle stainless steel is to slow down the vertical heat conduction and to promote the lateral heat diffusion.

Do you remember the multi-blade razor blade? First, we have the normal 2 blades razor, then there is the Gillette March 3 (3 blades), then Schick Quattro (4 blades), then Gillette Fusion Power (5 blades):

http://www.blavish.com/wp-content/upl...

I really do not know if there are 6 or 7 blades on the market.

[Saffrondust]

I think you must not have tried them. The 5-ply cookware creates supremely even heating along the entire surface of the pan. It also holds the heat better, wich means less variation with electric ranges, and less gas usage with propane. I can't imagine frying on a 1-ply pan, but the fully clad pans are better even than the ones with plate cladding (where just the bottom of the pan is thicker than the sides).
If you really only have a one-ply frying pan, you should really try the all clad. even the old three ply would better. They have them at marshalls sometimes, you can get a good deal.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Saffrondust,

Thanks. I don't argue that d5 cookware have a very even heating surface. Rather I am raising questions about the needs of that. Most chefs do not use a 5-ply cookware. In fact, many chefs simply use a solid (1-ply) pan. People have been using solid pan for ages. I don't think it is that difficult. As long as the foods are moved around, the need for extremely even heating surface is minimized. Certainly, there is no need for even heating for all cookware. Only a few demand it.

I do have a tiply cookware and while it delivers much more even heated surface than say my cast iron pan. I find that feature is only useful if I insist on not moving my foods. If I am to move and turn and flip my foods, then all bets are off.

[Saffrondust]

Hi Chem,

I just don't think that moving the food around is something you want to do unless you're stirring. If I'm making, say, a couple of chicken breasts on a 10 or 12" pan, then i would really like for that pan to be evenly heated. Because not only does meat sear better if you just leave in place and not mess with it, but i usually have other stuff cooking as well and I want my food just cook without having to hover over it. :)

But you know, after reading about the carbon cookware, such as from deBuyer, that seems to work really well, and it's like you say, one thick ply. I guess the only thing is having to season it. But I bet that would be a nice pan!

[Chemicalkinetics]

Saffroundust,

I think one is expected to toss or move foods around quickly in sauting. In shallow frying (not deep fry), I think that depends. For me, the only foods I really do not want to move around a lot is fish because it can fall apart very easily.

Carbon steel pans are not as heat even as multi-ply cookware. However, foods do not stick strongly on a carbon steel and it is very easy to shake and slide the foods around. Yes, they need to be seasoned to be stick-less.

Saddrondust. Did you get a set of d5 or just a few? How have they treated you thus far?

[Saffrondust]

I haven't actually tried the new d5 yet, the one i've used is a 14" all-clad frying pan from the older 5ply brushed stainless line. I loved it from the first time I used it. I like a hot sear on chicken or steak to get nice color, and in my previous frying pan it was always a fight to balance between hot enough to sear but not so hot it burns up the nice brown bits on the bottom (the fond). This pan did not give me any trouble at all with that. I loved it! It's heavy, sure, but worth it.

The copper core is my favorite, but it's so expensive. I work part time at Williams Sonoma so I get a discount, but even so, I only have one piece that I got after it went on clearance.

i am planning to get a few key pieces of the d5. I think maybe the 8 or 10 frying pans, a lidded saute pan.

[grnidkjun]

check your local tjmaxx.. lately mine has had a lot of the copper core pieces.
I've not picked any of them up.. I've been really happy with the ss

[bobbyboi]

TJMaxx sells All-Clad seconds and irregulars. Check for an "S" etched into the handles or on the bottom of the pan.

[jeremyn]

Saffrondust: ___-ply is meaningless. I would much rather take a 7mm "one-ply" aluminum pan over a 2mm "five-ply" pan. The former will provide more even heat. Not surprisingly, the former is also what you will find in professional kitchens.

[jkt249]

Saffrondust: while I agree with you in theory,that a thicker, more heat conductive pan would be sufficient, I wonder if it is wise, in light of medical evidence, to use aluminum directly on ones food. There are numerous reports on the dangers of cooking directly on aluminum; it's effects on the brain, etc. Just a thought::).

[mcf]

I'm pretty sure the later, most definitive examination of aluminum has found no role for it in any of the suspected health problems theorized.

[lehickey]

I work at WS, the new line is nice, 5 ply instead of 3, better handles and the size of the pan in stamped on the bottom. We got to try out the new pans about a month ago, and the cooking was very even, heat retention was great. It is also optimized for induction ranges, the outer ss layer is magnetized. I have used both, and prefer the new d5 (I'm already planning my purchases!)

[souvenir]

Thanks leh. I currently have a gas cooktop and electric oven combo that I am very happy with. I don't envision a change, but you never know.

Do you happen to know if the d5 lids are US made? For the 3 ply pan I received, the box says that the lid is made in China.

[lehickey]

I've looked at the boxes, but have not found anything definitive on the lids. The 5 ply has advantages over the 3 ply, more pricey than the 3 ply, still less than the brushed stainless. Of course, no one "needs" it, but I personally have many things in my kitchen I don't "need", it just makes cooking more fun!

[hobbybaker]

Hi, Lehickey

Do you maybe know if they will add a 3-qt saucier of D5? I have some pieces of traditional 3 ply SS All-Clad and I love them. Now I am considerint to add a 3qt saucier, but I do not like the All-clad saucier of 3ply SS has NO flare side. I do not like the two lips version of WS, either. Also, copper core is not my choice as I prefer induction capability.

If AC makes 3-qt saucier of D5, which has nice flare side for poring, it is ideal for my need. I speculate, though, the possible sales price may be going to at least around $180ish based on the prices of 3qt and 4qt sauce pans of D5.

I am currently considering to buy another brand as a compromise but if there will be a 3-qt saucier of D5, I will postphone my purchase...

[Eiron]

All-Clad's website (FAQ) says that their tools, accessories & lids are all made overseas.

[Saffrondust]

The new All-Clad d5 is made in the USA

[Chemicalkinetics]

Saffondust,

They are talking about the lids. All-Clad lids are not made in USA. It is possible that d5 is exception to the rule, but all the other All Clad lids are made out of USA.

[JeepCook]

One additional question. How does the D5 compare to the Copper Core? I am about to make a purchase and I am torn between the two. The added cost of the Copper Core is not an issue - just looking for the best cookware.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[cutipie721]

I'm also in the market for a stainless steel fry pan. I found 2 hairline scratches on my one and final piece of teflon pan today (scream). Need to know how d5 and copper core are different. The new Copper-core is now officially induction compatible according to their FAQ!!

[Caitlin McGrath]

Regular AC stainless works just fine with induction.