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How much water to add to concentrated chicken stock?

w
wasabe Nov 22, 2009 06:41 PM

I inadvertently made stock today, while cooking chicken in my slow cooker using this recipe: http://crockpot365.blogspot.com/2008/...

When I took the chicken out, there was a dark stock in the pot from the chicken and vegetable juices, but as there was no water in the recipe, I assume it's more concentrated than normal. If (after straining and removing the fat) I ended up with about 1.5 cups, how much water should I add?

  1. alanbarnes Nov 24, 2009 08:49 AM

    As others have noted, you have drippings, not stock. No matter what you call it, though, it's good stuff.

    I wouldn't dilute at all. There are probably plenty of other uses, but I like drippings full-strength as a starting point for gravy. Whatever you use them for, you can always add water if the chicken flavor is too intense.

    3 Replies
    1. re: alanbarnes
      MandalayVA Nov 24, 2009 10:20 AM

      I never dilute either. What's the point of making broth if you're going to water it down? Might as well buy Swanson's.

      1. re: alanbarnes
        w
        wasabe Nov 24, 2009 10:48 AM

        Actually, I was thinking of using what's left (about half, so 3/4 cups) on Thursday for the veloute portion of my gravy. If I roast the turkey with apples and shallots in the pan (plus onion, celery, and lemon in the bird), will the gravy be too onion-y?

        1. re: wasabe
          monku Nov 24, 2009 10:52 AM

          If you used one medium sized onion it won't be overpowering. Your're going to end up with lots of fat and juice.

      2. j
        jeremyn Nov 23, 2009 10:13 PM

        Although this has sort of turned into a holier-than-thou, "who-makes-the-best-stock" thread, I'm going to try to answer the OP's question:

        If you have skimmed off the visible fat, what you have is basically stock. If you want to thin it out, I would go by texture. My normal stock is nearly (but not quite) solid jello consistency after a day in the fridge. I'd add enough water (slowly) to get it to the body of your normal stock. If you started with one chicken, I'd expect to end up with about a quart. However, because your extraction used no water and was likely less efficient, I might expect somewhat less.

        3 Replies
        1. re: jeremyn
          Sam Fujisaka Nov 24, 2009 03:16 AM

          jeremyn, you say, "Although this has sort of turned into a holier-than-thou, "who-makes-the-best-stock" thread, I'm going to try to answer the OP's question: ... If you have skimmed off the visible fat, what you have is basically stock."

          I disagree with both statements. Some of us are not arguing about making the best stock, but calling the liquid that results from a slow-cooked chicken and vegetables "stock". I make stock by very slowly/lowly simmering the chicken bones roasted a bit, the neck (skinned), and the feet. Others simmer a whole chicken. Either way and many variations end up providing stock. The idea is to get chicken flavor and as much collagen as possible. Fat is skimmed off and the stock is clarified.

          wasabe's slow cooked chicken was doine with vegetables and with no liquid addded. I've done that as well. The liquid that accumulated was in no way stock-like.

          1. re: Sam Fujisaka
            w
            wasabe Nov 24, 2009 04:32 AM

            Mine was very stock-like. It had plenty of collagen (practically turned to jello after 20-30 mins in the freezer to let the fat on top solidify) and, with some water added, made a nice chicken soup last night.

            1. re: wasabe
              w
              wallyz Nov 24, 2009 07:10 AM

              So since we can't all it stock because its not made the same way, but it makes a great soup, lets call it concentrated natural chicken soup base, and then all the purists will be happy.;) I am glad it tasted good. Keep cookin'

        2. Sam Fujisaka Nov 23, 2009 08:39 AM

          Sorry, but I have to go with monku's original point of view. What was left were chicken drippings and liquid from the vegetables. I wouldn't use the stuff as stock - in large part because I carefully make stock (simmered roasted bones plus feet, necks, heads) and don't want less than my minimal requirements for a clear, flavor and collagen dense base for many things from gravies to soups, to sauces, to dressing for soba noodles.

          6 Replies
          1. re: Sam Fujisaka
            monku Nov 23, 2009 03:19 PM

            Sam...give me a quick recipe for the dressing for soba noodles,
            I've been forced to use the stuff from the bottle because people can't tell me how it's made.

            1. re: monku
              Sam Fujisaka Nov 23, 2009 03:38 PM

              The tare for 250 grams of pasta (soba or spagetti): 3 TBSP shoyu, 2 TBSP brown sugar, 3 TBSP white vinegar, 5 TBSP chicken stock, 1 tsp toasted sesame oil, 1 TBSP Chinese or Japanese mustard (optional). Simple, magic.

              1. re: Sam Fujisaka
                monku Nov 23, 2009 03:41 PM

                1 TBSP of Chinese mustard sounds like an awful lot? (please confirm)
                Thanks, I'll write it down. Most people I ask tell me it's watered down shoyu.

                1. re: monku
                  Sam Fujisaka Nov 24, 2009 03:03 AM

                  That is mustard already mixed - not the powder. A tsp might be better. Adjust all ingredients wildly to suit your taste. The people you talk to either don't know squat or they're trying to keep such a simple recipe from you.

                  1. re: Sam Fujisaka
                    monku Nov 24, 2009 10:10 AM

                    Maybe most people just use the bottled stuff.
                    Will go in my recipe file as "Sam's Soba Sauce."
                    Thanks again.

            2. re: Sam Fujisaka
              c oliver Nov 23, 2009 03:23 PM

              I overlooked the fact that my stock has nothing other than chicken so I agree now that I think about it. I need to see if I can get feet etc. It certainly sounds wonderful. And I could hold out some of the feet for a little dim sum :)

            3. w
              wasabe Nov 23, 2009 05:04 AM

              Just to clarify, there was no visible fat in the final product; I strained the liquid into a measuring cup and stuck it in the freezer to let the fat solidify, after which I scooped it off. I also used a good-sized onion and some garlic, which shrunk down to almost nothing during cooking. So what was left contained juices from the chicken, collagen (the bones had that dried-up look), and juice from the onion and garlic, as well as salt, pepper and spices. I'm unsure of how much colloidal fat there would be.

              1 Reply
              1. re: wasabe
                monku Nov 23, 2009 05:31 AM

                After saying you froze what was left and removed the solid fat, then I'll admit you have something that seems like concentrated stock. Cooling the stock in the refrigerator and removing the solid fat is the only thing that works for me.
                As far as how much water to add only you can determine that by taste.

              2. monku Nov 22, 2009 08:27 PM

                I'm not really sure if what was left in your crock pot is stock of any kind.
                Isn't chicken stock the simmering the carcass of the chicken and bones in water to produce a liquid of chicken fats and collagen from the bones?

                18 Replies
                1. re: monku
                  c oliver Nov 22, 2009 08:30 PM

                  I think OP was saying that an "error" occurred and is now wanting to turn the mistake into stock. Doesn't seem like a particular problem to me.

                  1. re: c oliver
                    monku Nov 22, 2009 08:40 PM

                    According to the recipe there was no water added and the only vegetable was an optional whole onion and garlic.
                    So you are saying the leftover fat at the bottom of the crock pot is some kind of stock?

                    1. re: monku
                      c oliver Nov 22, 2009 08:43 PM

                      OP wound up with 1.5 cups of "something." I assume that "something" could become stock. Stock has plenty of fat. Why not?

                      1. re: c oliver
                        monku Nov 22, 2009 08:57 PM

                        In my book fat and water don't mix.

                        1. re: monku
                          c oliver Nov 22, 2009 09:01 PM

                          Well, I make stock regularly and it absolutely glistens with the fat so I don't get your point, monku.

                          1. re: c oliver
                            monku Nov 22, 2009 09:12 PM

                            Don't you skim off the schmaltz from the top of the stock (or when it's cooled it's solid) and the remaining liquid you see isn't fat but isn't it the collagen from the bones in the chicken?

                            1. re: monku
                              w
                              wallyz Nov 22, 2009 09:29 PM

                              THere is some collagen in it, but it is mostly water, colloidal fats starches and proteins.

                              The colloid/suspension in the bottom of her crock pot is usable for stock.

                              It's also usable for gravy, another colloid that tastes good, or for making a demi-glace, yet another we use. I don't know what you think happens in a stock pot other than water, animal proteins, vegetable starches, and oils and fats from both getting mixed into a colloid.

                              1. re: wallyz
                                monku Nov 22, 2009 09:53 PM

                                I can understand using what was left at the bottom of that crock pot for gravy or demi-glace.
                                My understanding is chicken stock is a liquid almost free of fat colloidal or not. Most of the flavor from chicken stock is from the collagen.

                                1. re: wallyz
                                  monku Nov 22, 2009 10:16 PM

                                  Chemistry aside and back to the original post. The OP cooked a chicken in a pot with no water and very little liquid. The remaining stuff in the pot is basically chicken fat and spices.
                                  Now what' the difference between the leftover in the crock pot and when you roast a chicken in the oven. You're saying the leftover stuff in the pan is concentrated stock.
                                  I guess my recipe for making stock would be to remove most of the meat from the roasted chicken, put it in a pot, add some celery, carrots, onion, cover with water and simmer for a few hours skim off the fat and that's stock.

                                  1. re: monku
                                    c oliver Nov 23, 2009 06:26 AM

                                    Well, your recipe for stock is quite different from mine but that's the subject for a different thread :)

                                    1. re: c oliver
                                      monku Nov 23, 2009 06:36 AM

                                      I thought I was using a basic recipe...chicken carcass, water, onions, celery, carrots, some salt and pepper and simmer for a couple hours, strain it, then chill it and remove the fat.

                                      Enlighten me.

                                      1. re: monku
                                        c oliver Nov 23, 2009 07:09 AM

                                        I use a whole chicken uncooked, put in the slow cooker, cover with water, no other ingredients. I've read a fair amount here and other places and for stock to be the most versatile, you just want it to taste like chicken. Any other flavors can be addedd later. After two to three hours on low, the breast meat will have reached an internal temp of 160. I remove the breast meat from the bird, put the bird back in the cooker and it goes for many more hours. I periodically use a big wooden spoon or something and break apart the carcass. At the end of that time, the remainder of the meat has given its all to that stock, I promise you :) I strain the solids which go in the trash and refrigerate the stock. The next morning I DO remove the solid fat on the top but that's imprecise so there's still some there. I keep that for cooking other things. That's the version that works for me. I'm planning to make hot and sour soup this week and starting with a base that only has chicken flavor is going to be pretty important, I believe. So long answer to a short question but I could and do just eat that golden, glistening liquid by the spoonful :)

                                        1. re: c oliver
                                          alanbarnes Nov 23, 2009 08:30 AM

                                          If those chicken bones are crumbly when you're done, they're safe for the dogs. And trust me, Gypsy and Woofy think the meat has a little more to give - to them!

                                          1. re: alanbarnes
                                            c oliver Nov 23, 2009 08:59 AM

                                            Gypsy said it would go nicely with the whole stick of butter she took off the counter yesterday.

                                          2. re: c oliver
                                            monku Nov 23, 2009 10:53 AM

                                            In your post above you said your stock "glistens with fat", I don't like greasy tasting stock, something about the mouth feel is wrong. If i'm making stock for Chinese cooking then just chicken carcass, water and a little soy sauce. I find it wasteful to boil the whole chicken away when the meat can be eaten.

                                            1. re: monku
                                              c oliver Nov 23, 2009 12:47 PM

                                              I'm relatively sure it was Cooks Illustrated some years ago that tested various ways (of course). Using a carcass with most of the chicken removed gave an inferior product. If I pay $3 for a chicken, have the breast meat for another use and two plus quarts of stock, I don't consider that wasteful in the least. And I don't really care what others do :)

                                              1. re: monku
                                                thew Nov 24, 2009 03:43 AM

                                                coming from a jewish family - that boiled chicken meat does not get thrown away. we eat it with horseradish

                                                1. re: thew
                                                  c oliver Nov 24, 2009 06:28 AM

                                                  Except for the breast meat, mine cooks for eight or more hours. It's hardly even recognizable and is so mixed in with shreds of skin and pieces of bone, I'd be hard-pressed to even separate it --- even if I wanted to eat it. But I know plenty of people do and also plenty of birds aren't going to be cooked for that long.

                      2. c oliver Nov 22, 2009 08:18 PM

                        When I make chicken stock in my slow cooker, which I love BTW, I add two quarts of water in the beginning and that is very luscious.

                        1. Cherylptw Nov 22, 2009 07:02 PM

                          Your stock was dark because of the juice from the vegetables; how much water to add depends on how much depth of flavor you wish your recipe to have.

                          1. phofiend Nov 22, 2009 06:47 PM

                            No answer except taste and use you own judgment. But I would probably save it for gravy, or use it to flavor sauteed vegetables. That's precious stuff.

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