Pairing with Both Pumpkin & Apple Pies?

[JAB]

I'm looking for a single wine to pair with desert which will be both pumpkin & apple pies. Suggestions for still or sparkling are welcome. TIA

[stalkingwine]

Whatever you like. I like coffee because I don't generally like to have wine with really sweet food.

[Charles Yu]

I once paired a French Apple pie with a 1996 Gunderloch Nachenheim Rothenberg Gold cap Auslese Riesling. Every one at the party commented it was match made in heaven!

[njfoodies]

Am I the only one who likes Sauternes on here? =) -mJ

[whiner]

I like Sauternes, though, to be honest, I often prefer other sweet whites.

[bogie]

I think Sauternes would be a great match too, or a late harvest riesling.

[JAB]

To report back, I was able to pick up a 750ml 2005 Baumard Quarts de Chuame for $49.95. While I had no problem with the sweet on top of sweet as suggested, it did take some getting used to the odor and taste of what I presume was Botrytis.

Off topic, I wasn't thrilled to death with my diner choices although, they were certainly very drinkable. I went in looking for a 2007 Paraiso Pinot Noir and a Morgon 2008 "VV" Daniel Bouland Cru Beaujolais. Both however were sold out. I walked out with a 2008 Paraiso Pinot Noir and a Cote De Brouilly 2008 Daniel Bouland Cru Beaujolais.

[whiner]

Uh-oh... Botrytis doesn't really have an odor that I think most people would require getting used to. Can you describe this odor for us?

[JAB]

Essentially, rotten grapes.

[noreservations]

Not to turn this into a Baumard only discussion...but didn't this wine significantly jump up in price in quite a hurry? I happily bought their '95 & '96 Quarts de Chaume in 750ml bottles on release. The next vintage release or two later I noticed the SMALLER bottles going for well beyond what the 750s were just getting.

Not sure whether I'd have this with the OP's mentioned desserts but Chinon and Brad B's above suggestions sound nice. Off to kick myself for not buying more of these Quarts when the going was as good as what's in the bottle.

[Politeness]

JAB, I have to say that I disagree with all of the first 16 replies. I do not know how you prepare either your pumpkin pie or your apple pie, but most examples of both I ever have tasted are on the sweet side, and the last thing you need is a sweetish wine to pile on the sweetness. Also, the spice load of any _good_ pumpkin pie (or the generous cinnamon of most apple pies) will completely overwhelm the complex subtlety of Quarts de Chaume or any other excellent wine, making the expenditure pretty much a waste.

In light of the above, therefore, I would suggest something on the astringent side to offset the sweetness of the pie and to cleanse the palate, a wine that is not too expensive (use the expense you save for Chinon00's sherry -- but a wine to be drunk after dinner, not at the same time as dessert), but something strong enough in character to withstand the assaults of pumpkin or apple pie's spices. Something like a Rias Baixas Albariño, in other words.

[Brad Ballinger]

Can't disagree more with this suggestion. The sweetness of the pies are going to magnify the acidity of the suggested wines to the point where they'll not show much fruit at all and be pure acid water.

[whiner]

Cannot AGREE more with Brad's dissagreeent on this one.

[invinotheresverde]

Ditto. An acidic, assertive white's going to taste like paint thinner with pumpkin/applie pie (or dessert in general).

[carswell]

+1

If Politeness is pairing dry, high-acid whites with sweet dishes like fruit pies, I can understand why "they" has repeatedly claimed that whites are inferior to reds.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/645716#5068335
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6686...

[Politeness]

carswell: "If Politeness is pairing dry, high-acid whites with sweet dishes like fruit pies, I can understand why 'they' has repeatedly claimed that whites are inferior to reds."

We say that whites (as a class, in general) are inferior to reds (as a class, in general) only because the proposition is indisputably true, similar to stating the proposition that computers in 2009 (as a class, in general) are more powerful than computers of a generation ago. White wines have their place and time, but generally only in a supporting role, not as a star player. One such place and time is at a Thanksgiving meal dominated by a roast turkey, the superstar, the stardom of which -- for a day -- is not to be challenged.

As for those who would pile sweetness upon sweetness upon sweetness, we can only reply that our tastes do not run to soda pop, either. We can imagine drinking -- in fact, on occasion, we have drunk -- a lemonade with apple pie, but we would never pair apple pie with Manischewitz concord grape wine or with a chocolate Coke.

[Politeness]

Brad Ballinger, there is no other way to express this than to say that you are 180° incorrect. At OUR home this Thanksgiving, the pairing for the apple pie (we skipped pumpkin this year) was Salneval Albariño 2008, a nice light astringent wine. It matched with the pie perfectly. Our guests -- eight of them -- each had the opportunity to have a sweet wine (Plunkett Blackwood Ridge 2006 Botrytis Semillon) poured for them, and deferred that pleasure to after dinner. They chose, and chose wisely, I might add, not to pile sugar on sugar.

The theory is no different than that of pairing tart cranberry sauce with the candied sweet potatoes at the main dinner. The sweetness of the pies did not magnify the acidity of the wines, but the astringency of the wines did heighten the fruit taste of the apples in the pie and offset the pie's richness (we make our pie crusts with pure real butter).

[Chinon00]

What aspects of the wine were highlighted or appreciated the most during the pairing?

Thanks

[Politeness]

Chinon00, in short, freshness and humility.

The event going on in the Center Ring of our Thanksgiving repast at the time was the apple pie, and the point was to enhance that experience, not to compete with it. The selection of the wine for the dessert course was comparable to selecting the perfect typeface for a printed document: the proper choice of typeface can greatly enhance the impact of the words on the page, but when viewers start forgetting the words because they are staring at the typeface, you have lost the main message to a calligraphy lesson.

The OP asked for suggestions for a wine to pair with dessert, which already was determined to be pumpkin pie and apple pie, not suggestions for a dessert to go with some famous wine.

[Chinon00]

"The event going on in the Center Ring of our Thanksgiving repast at the time was the apple pie, and the point was to enhance that experience, not to compete with it."

Does that apply to main courses for you as well or just for desserts. And why?

Thanks

[Politeness]

Chinon00: Generally, and for us, that applies to main courses as well as for desserts.

There are exceptions to every rule. As related in another thread, this year, we stumbled upon some serendipity. As related in another current thread, while rummaging through our so-called wine cellar for something else, we discovered some 1991 Eyrie Vineyards Oregon Chardonnay that presumably we purchased in 1992 or 1993 and forgot that we had. Chardonnay is not normally a prime candidate for cellaring, and we had no idea whether the contents of the bottle would turn out to be vinegar or something else, but we decided to take a chance. (We had other wines on hand in case we discovered the worst.) We opened the 1991 Oregon Chardonnay at the same time as we carved the turkey.

Elsewhere in this thread, we wrote "at a Thanksgiving meal dominated by a roast turkey, the superstar, the stardom of which -- for a day -- is not to be challenged." Alas, alack, and oh-joy! the Eyrie chardonnay was really, really good. It was like bringing Wilt Chamberlain at the height of his skills into a game where Michael Jordan already was on the floor. The superstardom of the turkey was challenged until the bottle of chardonnay was drained.

More directly to answer your question, in our household, we tend to pour the best wines before dinner, and again after dinner when the palate has had time to settle down and there are no taste distractions. Accompanying the meal, however, we let the wine take a secondary and complementary role and let the food take center stage. Apart fromThanksgiving dinner, what we were pouring for our guests WITH MEALS over the weekend was a nice sturdy, unself-conscious Barbera d'Alba, nobody's paradigm of a "great" wine, but a very, very good accompaniment to good food.

[Chinon00]

Ok so what you are describing is a personal preference for wine playing a supporting role during a meal. That's cool but it doesn't mean that the opposite or an equal role for each is necessarily wrong or can't be successful does it? To be fair I'll give this dry astrigent wine pairing with sweet dessert a try and report back; although the many times I've had brut Champagne with wedding cake has never worked for me personally.

[Politeness]

Chinon00: "... a personal preference for wine playing a supporting role during a meal. ... but it doesn't mean that the opposite or an equal role for each is necessarily wrong or can't be successful does it?"

It all gets down to a definition of "personal" vs. "generally true," I guess. Most meals partaken at an hour appropriate for wine imbibing will have a meat/fish dish, a green vegetable dish (or, or in addition to, a salad), and one or more starch dishes (rice, potato, bread, etc.). Now you may have different "personal" views than I, but the question, "which green vegetable will enhance this wine?" leaves me scratching my head.

We enjoy visiting wineries, and, living in Portland (Oregon), we have the opportunity to visit the fine pinot noir wineries of Yamhill County and Dundee Hills. We visited three of the finest on Friday, the day after Thansgiving, in fact. We also enjoy visiting the wineries of the Napa, Sonoma, and Dry Creek Valleys north of San Francisco, where members of our family live. When we visit the California and Oregon wineries, and when we have visited some estates in Chianti Classico (Toscano) and Montefalco (Umbria), occasionally cheeses are provided, sometimes chocolate, sometimes plain (no seeds or spices) "water" crackers. The wine producers, interested in putting their wines forward, never offer roast beef or julienne beans to enhance the enjoyment of their wines.

We -- our "personal" choice -- follow the lead of the wineries. When the wine is to play the starring role, and sometimes a wine is good enough to be assigned the role of star, then we do not serve it with a roast or prime rib or a squab or a fish fillet; we do not distract the wine with a green vegetable or the piquancy of a salad dressing. We serve the wine, highlighted, before or after a meal, and perhaps choose -- carefully -- a cheese that complements the wine. Then it is a true partnership, and the wine is the senior partner.

[Chinon00]

"We -- our "personal" choice -- follow the lead of the wineries. When the wine is to play the starring role, and sometimes a wine is good enough to be assigned the role of star, then we do not serve it with a roast or prime rib or a squab or a fish fillet; we do not distract the wine with a green vegetable or the piquancy of a salad dressing. "

Ok but all wineries (high end and otherwise) "highlight" all their wines in this manner. They don't make a distinction between those that play a starring role and those that don't. So if you were following the lead of the wineries you'd only serve crackers, cheese, etc with any wine. But again you are making a personal choice to present certain wine in this "tasting room" manner. Again it isn't wrong it's just personal; which gets back to my original comment.

[Politeness]

Chinon00, I think that we are not disagreeing. It is entirely possible that there are some people who would think that the meal itself is meaningless and insignificant. For them, the wine would be the only important thing, and they would look for a salad that complements the wine, one supposes. We never have met such a person.

[Chinon00]

It's not that you need to find a vegetable or salad to support the wine (as a matter of fact you could eliminate them both from a meal). But a rule that I try to follow in regard to pairing is complex with simple; whether it be a simple wine with a complex meal or vice versa. Although "simple" in regard to food for me and many I'm assuming is not limited to items served at a winery tasting room. An example of a simple meal for me would include gnocchi topped with browned butter and pecorino romano cheese to start and roasted pork loin with lyonnaise potatoes all with a tremendous Nebbiolo.

[Politeness]

Chinon00: "... a simple meal for me would include gnocchi topped with browned butter and pecorino romano cheese to start and roasted pork loin with lyonnaise potatoes all with a tremendous Nebbiolo."

I hope that's an invitation. We accept!

[JAB]

How are the other vintages of the Baumard Quarts de Chaume besides 2005 which seems to have disappeared from my local proprietor's web site?

[Brad Ballinger]

If 2005 have disappeared, I don't know if you'll find older ones. 2002 would be a good choice, but might not be found on a retail shelf. It's sort of a "crime," according to some, to dink these wines young, though. I still haven't opened 1996 and 1997 QdC wines in my cellar.

[whiner]

I have had many vintages of this wine and none have dissapointed. There is no such thing as "vintage proof" and I do not have any personal knowledge of '06 or '07 for Chenin Blan in the Loire, but I would say, given how other parts of France faired in those years, and given Baumard's track record. you are safe.

[carswell]

Sweet whites were a bust in 2006 -- production was way down and there was next to no botrytis. 2007 was much better, if not equal to 2005 and 2002.

[Brad Ballinger]

Agreeig with Chinon: PX. Old PX. Like 1971, 72, or 75. All of which one should be able to find. And not that expensive.

[vinosnob]

TOTALLY agree with the Quarts de Chaume rec; that's heaven in a glass. Preferably one with some age.

For something more affordable, I'd go with a moscato d'asti.

[Chinon00]

I'd like to also suggest a dessert sherry. The dark brown spices and flavors like mollassas, fig, raisin, etc would certainly work well with pumpkin and apple. Pedro Ximénez
is a good example.

Thanks

[ibstatguy]

well, I'm an armagnac kind of guy...

[whiner]

Quarts de Chaume

Assuming it is within your budget, this is a no-brainer.

[whiner]

You can get in at just around $60 for the 2005 Baumard Quarts de Chaume. Worth it.

[JAB]

My local proprietor has it for $39.95!

[carswell]

It's a great wine and an inspired choice. Go for it.

[invinotheresverde]

Definitely worth it and a steal at 40 bucks!

[shaogo]

The '06 Baumard Quarts de Chaume that's going for $39.95 is just the small, 375 milliliter size, it appears.

MSRP for the '06 in the 375 milliliter is $45.99, so just under forty bucks is a steal. MSRP for the 500 milliliter size is $84.99.

It's probably been 20+ years since I've had a Quarts de Chaume.

My (Connecticut) wholesale directory also lists a "Chateau de Suronde" Quarts de Chaume at somewhat lower prices than the Baumard. Neither Suronde nor the distributor listed an MSRP, but wholesale prices are in the $30-$50 range, depending upon the year.

[invinotheresverde]

Budget?

[JAB]

$60 max.