666005 Mon Nov 09 22:32:38 -0800 2009 35 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 5169270 Does good butter make a big difference for everyday cooking? If so, what should I pick up at Trader Joe's, Safeway of Lucky? Or should I really spring for the stuff at the fancy cheese shop? I sometimes make a simple brown butter and sage sauce and toss it with some pasta and parmesan. I always wonder if I should spring for something more than the Challenge brand. I never see cookbooks mention the quality of butter. But... In Adam Gopnik's book 'Paris to the Moon,' he mentions an American chef apprentice a Michelin rated restaurant. Probably talking pastries, the aspiring chef gestured to some French butter and said something like, "This ain't no Land O'Lakes." Since then, I've always wondered if I'm really missing out on something special. Mon Nov 09 22:32:38 -0800 2009 1123231 andy54321 1 5169294 Standard American butter is 80 percent butterfat. Premium butters can be as much as 86 percent. In addition, some premium butters are cultured, which gives them a more complex flavor. The difference in butterfat doesn't sound like much, but the Chronicle did some tests a few years back and the amount of butterfat really did make an appreciable difference in baking. I think you should go out and buy some premium butters and taste for yourself. Trader Joe's carries Kerrygold from Ireland, which a lot of people swear by. Whole Foods carries some interesting premium butters, as does Berkeley Bowl. Start with a couple of those, and then if you find that they've piqued your interest, you can work your way up to fancy cheese shop butter. Mon Nov 09 22:55:00 -0800 2009 5169270 10159 Ruth Lafler 1 5169360 You can also shop for butters at New World Market on Geary Blvd. for a good selection. Tue Nov 10 01:05:08 -0800 2009 5169270 13519 Cynsa 1 5169412 The SFChron bake-off Ruth referred to. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/13/FDGASMT5PD1.DTL Tue Nov 10 03:46:43 -0800 2009 5169270 105235 wolfe 2 5169823 thank you! it's an interesting read, especially now with holiday baking just around the corner Tue Nov 10 07:54:10 -0800 2009 5169412 13519 Cynsa 3 5169846 You might give a try to Sierra Nevada Cultured Sweet, new and not on that list. Here is a dazzling array of butters. http://www.forkandbottle.com/pantry/butter/index.htm Tue Nov 10 08:00:58 -0800 2009 5169823 105235 wolfe 2 5174067 I find that, much like Cook's Illustrated ratings, these taste rankings trend toward blandness -- they reflect the butter(s) that were disliked by the fewest people. It's really a matter of personal taste: do you prefer a sweet, clean cream flavor, or a more cheesey cultured flavor, or a more distinctive grass-fed flavor. The results of the baking test seems much more objective, although it's hard to know just how precise they were in controlling the variables. Wed Nov 11 16:03:02 -0800 2009 5174004 10159 Ruth Lafler 3 5174118 I'd be more interested in seeing what Roland Passot thought than the average score. Wed Nov 11 16:23:32 -0800 2009 5174067 11369 Robert Lauriston 3 5174171 Bingo. If you don't like personality in your butter, you won't like Celles sur Belle. Here's my post on a new, locally-produced butter from McClelland's http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/650344 Wed Nov 11 16:41:18 -0800 2009 5174067 10039 Melanie Wong 2 5174719 Reading through the actual text at that article gives me a different sense from the numerical rankings, but certain aspects matched my personal taste and experience: -I've never been let down by the flavor or texture of baked goods I make with Jana Valley, which is my affordable default for all baking projects -I find the flavor of Strauss lacking, especially at the price point. $6 a pound gets into celles sur belle or amazing farmer's market butter territory, and I don't feel like the Strauss really competes well when eaten uncooked. Wed Nov 11 21:19:16 -0800 2009 5174004 17221 SteveG 3 5174761 At her reading for The Foodie Handbook at Omnivore, Pim Techamuanvivit talked a bit about the butter she makes for Manresa. She said that just the raw materials alone, presumably the raw cream from the restaurant's dairy cow share, costs $25/lb. They don't have enough for every table. I talked to her a bit afterwards, and the trick is to mature the cream as long as possible to bring out the nutty character. (disclaimer: Pim is a personal friend.) "Better Butter" by Corby Kummer http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98jun/butter.htm Wed Nov 11 21:44:34 -0800 2009 5174719 10039 Melanie Wong 4 5175799 Mature the cream = culture it? Thu Nov 12 09:32:21 -0800 2009 5174761 11369 Robert Lauriston 5 5175830 raw milk, aged. I don't think any lactic acid bacteria is added here's more to read: http://www.travelerslunchbox.com/journal/2007/6/21/getting-some-culture.html Thu Nov 12 09:42:25 -0800 2009 5175799 13519 Cynsa 6 5175923 Raw cream will sour from ambient bacteria. Thu Nov 12 10:07:46 -0800 2009 5175830 11369 Robert Lauriston 7 5176011 I first asked if it was a "cultured" butter, and that seemed to imply inoculating to her so she said "no". But when I asked if the raw cream is aged like creme fraiche, that brought a big "yes" with the trick being to take it to the edge for the natural flora to bloom but not over the edge to the point of spoilage. Her descriptors of tangy and nutty sounded like natural creme fraiche to me. Pim mentioned getting her hands on some French booklets on butter making from the early part of the 20th century that have been her guide. Thu Nov 12 10:27:58 -0800 2009 5175923 10039 Melanie Wong 1 5170169 I've tried most of the fancy butters on this page and didn't find any of them terribly memorable: http://www.forkandbottle.com/pantry/butter/index.htm I've had incredible butter in France, but I think it's raw-milk and illegal to import. If I pay big bucks for a fancy butter, generally I just serve it plain. For cooking, I use Plugra ($2.99 / lb.). Tue Nov 10 09:47:25 -0800 2009 5169270 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 5170311 I use Plugra for cooking too but it's only $2.99 a pound at one store (in Oakland, not in SF, which is where the OP is looking). At most places it's around $4-5 a pound. Kerrygold is the best that I've found around here for buttering bread, etc. Tue Nov 10 10:34:53 -0800 2009 5170169 13525 JasmineG 3 5170390 Plugra used to be $2.99 at Trader Joe's. Smart & Final reportedly also charges $2.99. I think it's $3.80 at Berkeley Bowl now. Shop around. Tue Nov 10 10:59:20 -0800 2009 5170311 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 5170523 Nope, it's $4.19 at Berkeley Bowl, at least it was this weekend. Tue Nov 10 11:37:08 -0800 2009 5170390 13525 JasmineG 1 5170496 Try President's Butter -- available at Berkeley Bowl and at Andronico's. It is French butter, and although it is quite run-of-the-mill in France, it is still pretty good. Tue Nov 10 11:29:09 -0800 2009 5169270 67734 jean8298 1 5171924 See, I'd think for a simple brown butter sauce the quality of the butter wouldn't really matter. You're steaming off most of the water and browning the rest. For baking I get the Kerrygold from Trader Joe's that others have mentioned. My opinion: baking and eating fresh on a slab o' bread = oh yeah, the butter matters. For cooking = it shouldn't matter. I'd like to hear back after you've tried some other butters, though. I wouldn't mind being wrong. Tue Nov 10 22:26:57 -0800 2009 5169270 11798 MollyGee 2 5172763 I pretty much agree, except that Plugra's better for baking due to its lower moisture content. Wed Nov 11 09:08:34 -0800 2009 5171924 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 5172028 For the recipe you're describing, not so much. Last month, the guest who provided the bread for a wine tasting also brought two french butters. Celles sur Belle Beurre Grand Cru AOC Charentes-Poitou and Pamplie and Beurre de Baratte Extra fin - fleur de sel de I'ile de Re also from the same region. It was very fun (and absolutely delicious) to taste the two side by side. We liked both, but the pick was near unanimous that the Celles sur Belle was superior. Wed Nov 11 00:50:03 -0800 2009 5169270 10039 Melanie Wong 1 5174086 I use Plugra at home and sometimes spring for Lurpak which is pricier but richer to my tastes. At the Farmers Markets Spring Hill makes an amazing butter. Wed Nov 11 16:10:25 -0800 2009 5169270 96274 dhoffman1421 2 5174969 I don't know how to attach the link to the article, but if you Google "The way we eat; curd mentality - New York Times" you can read Daniel Patterson's article & obtain the recipe for the incredibly delicious butter he makes for Coi. Thu Nov 12 04:00:44 -0800 2009 5174086 1093795 neu 3 5175213 Thanks neu, here it is but perhaps not for long. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D03E7D71E3FF932A35754C0A9619C8B63 Thu Nov 12 06:50:16 -0800 2009 5174969 105235 wolfe 3 5175811 That's a pretty standard technique for churning butter at home. Note that fresh, sweet buttermilk can't be directly substituted for cultured "buttermilk" in baking. Thu Nov 12 09:36:43 -0800 2009 5174969 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 5180340 Eh, like a lot of baking, the higher quality product you use, the better it will taste. But as long as you're using the real thing (actual butter and not substitutes), you'll still have a damn good product. Recently I made the Chocolate Nemesis cake that's served at the River Cafe and Bar Jules. Due to the enormous quantities required, I used Hershey's chocolate, Lucerne eggs and butter, and Safeway sugar. Did it taste as good as the one at Bar Jules? No. Did it still taste f'ing amazing? Of course (what recipe wouldn't with 4 sticks of any butter) That's why we go to restaurants, to take advantage of their ability to buy top-notch products in bulk. Fri Nov 13 19:06:31 -0800 2009 5169270 292347 vulber 1 5180645 How about recommendations for butter to put slather on plain ole bread, toast, crumpets, scones, etc.? Fri Nov 13 23:17:51 -0800 2009 5169270 15466 badbatzmaru 2 5181028 Try the Challenge European, Sierra Nevada Cultured Sweet or the Celles sur Belle. It's up to your taste, report back. Sat Nov 14 07:59:01 -0800 2009 5180645 105235 wolfe 2 5181516 Both Clover and Straus butters at Falletti's Foods 308 Broderick at Fell Street San Francisco http://www.fallettifoods.com/ Sat Nov 14 12:12:21 -0800 2009 5180645 13519 Cynsa 2 5181524 I can walk a few blocks to Falletti's Foods... Rainbow Market probably has the Sierra Nevada Cultured Sweet butter... One World Market is an easy MUNI ride... where is the Celles sur Belle in San Francisco? Ferry Bldg? Spring Hill butter is at our Farmers' Markets... Sat Nov 14 12:20:41 -0800 2009 5180645 13519 Cynsa 3 5181534 From the linked 2006 tasting above, Celles sur Belle ($4.99 for 8.82 ounces, Draeger's) Sat Nov 14 12:27:58 -0800 2009 5181524 105235 wolfe 3 5181710 I'm pretty sure I've seen fancy butters at Rainbow, Bi-Rite, and Cowgirl Creamery. Sat Nov 14 14:01:31 -0800 2009 5181524 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 5181729 I'm sure I've seen several fancy butters at Hopkins Ave. Country Cheese. Sat Nov 14 14:11:21 -0800 2009 5181710 105235 wolfe 3 5186044 Rainbow carries Strauss, Clover normal, Clover Organic, Celles sur Belle, Jana Valley, 1 or 2 Parma butters, a Goat butter, and a couple other "premium" butters. Maybe not the very best prices anywhere, but their dairy is typically quite a bit cheaper than it is at Falletti. Mon Nov 16 12:09:51 -0800 2009 5181524 17221 SteveG