665757 Mon Nov 09 05:52:01 -0800 2009 61 31 Home Cooking 0 5166582 I'm so excited that I get to host my second Thanksgiving dinner of the year (Canadian Thanksgiving in October and now U.S. Thanksgiving in November). I'm having 16 - 20 people over and doing a pretty traditional meal. My question -- do you think it's worth including a salad amongst the side dishes? I personally think a salad is a waste of stomach space on Thanksgiving, but am wondering whether some people would like to have an option that is cool and fresh? I'm having a hard time envisioning putting something on my plate that I can't pour gravy over. :) If I did a salad, I'm thinking an arugula, fennel, roasted pear and caramelized pecans. The rest of the menu: - a few small nibbles with cocktails before dinner - turkey (spatchcocked -- I will never roast a turkey any other way again!) - honey-glazed ham - classic herb stuffing - roasted garlic mashed potatoes - roasted brussels sprouts - balsamic glazed roasted onions - biscuits with honey butter - cranberry chutney - gallons of gravy - roasted veggie torta w/mushroom gravy (for my vegetarian friends) Mon Nov 09 05:52:01 -0800 2009 12124 TorontoJo 1 5166586 You menu looks devine. Salad is served so often in my house, I don't include it in my Thanksgiving Dinner. I do eat lots of it, the whole weekend afterward though. ; ) What is spatchcoked turkey? Thanks. Mon Nov 09 05:54:39 -0800 2009 5166582 15691 mcel215 2 5166596 Spatchcocking is simply taking the backbone out of the bird and flattening it out. When cooked this way, it roasts quickly and evenly and you never have to worry about dried out breast meat or undercooked thigh meat. It's also so fast, you wouldn't believe it. My 16 lb. turkey roasted in exactly 2 hours. And you don't have to mess with all the other techniques for keeping the breast moist (trust me, I've tried them all) -- flipping the bird, icing the breast, brining, butter under the skin, etc. Here's a good recipe to follow for cooking instructions (regardless of whether you use the rest of the recipe): http://projects.washingtonpost.com/recipes/2007/11/14/herb-crusted-roast-butterflied-turkey/ Note that my bird was at room temperature when it went into the oven. Mon Nov 09 06:01:30 -0800 2009 5166586 12124 TorontoJo 3 5169379 I sense a revolution in turkey roasting here. I'm intrigued and will spatchcocke this year! Tue Nov 10 02:18:48 -0800 2009 5166596 14685 serious 4 5170667 Ok, I went to my pretty sedate butcher shop, ordered my turkey today for Thanksgiving and asked them to cut out the bone as described in directions. Then I asked that it be flattened. Three of them laughed out loud. I didn't loose my confidence. Report after the holiday. Tue Nov 10 12:24:41 -0800 2009 5169379 14685 serious 5 5170960 Good luck! I salted and herbed my turkey for 2 days before Thanksgiving. Delish. Do report back! Tue Nov 10 14:10:58 -0800 2009 5170667 12124 TorontoJo 5 5181847 The probably laughed because you made the same request twice. Not very polite of them I'd say. I've been barbecuing and roasting flattened chickens for years. Swift, even cooking that also allows one to easily marinate an entire bird if you wish. The only time I leave it "as is" is when there's stuffing to be made. Sat Nov 14 15:05:57 -0800 2009 5170667 12072 Googs 3 5169545 Thanks! Tue Nov 10 05:50:16 -0800 2009 5166596 15691 mcel215 2 5166762 mcel, just wanted to add to Toronto Jo's great explanation for you that you may have heard it referred to as, "butterflying", which is the informal term for spatchcocking. You may have seen it done with chickens, especially (though not only) for broiling. Mon Nov 09 07:26:18 -0800 2009 5166586 1104013 Normandie 3 5166767 good for cornish game hens on the barby. Mon Nov 09 07:28:39 -0800 2009 5166762 105717 alkapal 4 5166861 Oh, yes! (How soon will they be ready, alkapal????) ;-) Mon Nov 09 08:01:03 -0800 2009 5166767 1104013 Normandie 5 5167781 pretty soon, my friend. what if i'm using a "mojito" type marinade? http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/guy-fieri/mojito-chicken-recipe2/index.html you got a good wine pairing? ;-)). Mon Nov 09 12:45:00 -0800 2009 5166861 105717 alkapal 6 5168855 Oh, yum... I hope these babies held well, alkapal! I just found the post. :-( Well....you know, I don't drink alcohol; I only cook with it. I'm perfectly willing to make an exception for some good grilled hens, but I may not be very good at pairing. So here goes nothing. I say some good Kentucky Bourbon instead of wine, straight up, to go with the mint. We can pretend it's Derby Day. I know it's probably not a good idea to mix the rum in the marinade with the Bourbon, but give me enough of it and you'll get to see me in my big crazy Derby Day hat. Mon Nov 09 18:44:34 -0800 2009 5167781 1104013 Normandie 7 5169455 ok, scrap the rum component in the hens altogether. sub bourbon. maker's mark -- make my day! Tue Nov 10 04:38:00 -0800 2009 5168855 105717 alkapal 8 5169668 Running to get my hat! Tue Nov 10 06:55:09 -0800 2009 5169455 1104013 Normandie 3 5169543 Thanks Norm, I have heard of butterflying. Tue Nov 10 05:49:53 -0800 2009 5166762 15691 mcel215 4 5169782 But isn't "spatchcock" so much more delightful?! Tue Nov 10 07:39:01 -0800 2009 5169543 12124 TorontoJo 1 5166590 definitely have a salad. you need something crunchy and uncooked. i like your idea, because i love arugula. some people don't. you could go retro, and do iceberg wedges with a nice creamy gorgonzola dressing, or roquefort. Mon Nov 09 05:58:30 -0800 2009 5166582 105717 alkapal 2 5166602 Hmm... maybe some crisp apples instead of roasted pear to up the crunchiness factor? Mon Nov 09 06:05:29 -0800 2009 5166590 12124 TorontoJo 2 5166603 I wouldn't do a salad too much food. And Brussell Sprouts?? Bleh..Are you allergic to Green Beans? Mon Nov 09 06:05:34 -0800 2009 5166590 226945 Woof Woof Woof 3 5180268 As one of the guests at this particular Thanksgiving dinner, I would like to express my support for the brussels sprout. Carry on. Fri Nov 13 18:30:10 -0800 2009 5166603 139230 Wahooty 4 5181124 Ha, thanks, Wahooty! But do you want salad? ;) Sat Nov 14 08:53:23 -0800 2009 5180268 12124 TorontoJo 5 5181303 I was trying not to chime in since I'm just so happy someone is making me dinner! Let me put it this way - I am thrilled to be having a Thanksgiving dinner at all since I have to work that day, and I will gladly eat whatever is put in front of me. Your menu sounds absolutely fantastic, as does the hypothetical salad. I am one of those weirdos that does appreciate a little something light and fresh amongst all of the gluttony. I would, however, have to eat around the pears, due to my stupid fructose problems. So I think I kind of cancel myself out. :) Sat Nov 14 10:17:21 -0800 2009 5181124 139230 Wahooty 1 5166634 I wouldn't . Every other meal of the year family demands salad, but it isn't missed at this one. Only if it was the only green sidedish, if some giant catastrophe occured (like last minute blackout) and it was the ONLY option. But that's just my family. Mon Nov 09 06:25:39 -0800 2009 5166582 11097 coll 1 5166701 Rather than a traditional salad, have a relish tray that includes celery, carrots, radish, sliced Asian pear and/or apple, or other crunchy produce suitable as finger-food (cherry/grape tomatoes too), and a creamy dressing/dip. You can have this out before the meal, along with drinks and nibbles (limit the latter so people don't fill up before dinner), then move it to the dining room table for anyone who wants something raw on their dinner plate. Although your arugula salad would be good with a plainer entree and sides, if I DID serve a proper salad with a big feast like this, it would be a simple mixed green salad with a vinaigrette, so as not to add a whole other collection of distinctive flavors to the meal. Mon Nov 09 06:57:32 -0800 2009 5166582 159317 greygarious 2 5166708 yes, i meant to mention the famous (and beloved) relish tray. that's the solution for necessary crunchiness and some pickle-y flavors to counteract all the rich, soft roasted vegetals and meat otherwise dominating the OP's menu. http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/569828 Mon Nov 09 07:00:37 -0800 2009 5166701 105717 alkapal 2 5166819 i agree about the relish tray. it's kinda retro and crunchy. i do buttered radishes with sea salt in addition to carrots, celery, pickled cauliflower and olives. your salad sounds good on another menu, but you already have LOTS of sweet dishes on the table. i'd add bacon to the brussels sprouts. :) Mon Nov 09 07:46:39 -0800 2009 5166701 30273 hotoynoodle 2 5166908 greygarious - i agree! Mon Nov 09 08:13:55 -0800 2009 5166701 57801 lollya 2 5167773 Another vote for the relish tray. That was a tradition in my family--celery stuffed with cream cheese, green and black olives, and carrot sticks. Mon Nov 09 12:41:57 -0800 2009 5166701 23970 MandalayVA 2 5170061 We do the relish tray,too. Do not serve a green salad, but do serve cabbage salad Tue Nov 10 09:13:56 -0800 2009 5166701 11057 macca 2 5170129 I'm casting my vote for a bountiful relish tray -- in addition to a dark green salad featuring red leaf, arugula and a little escarole, with a simple vinaigrette containing a bit of minced onion. I love gregarious's idea for the Asian pears in the relish tray. I'd stick 'em next to the cucumber spears. Tue Nov 10 09:34:37 -0800 2009 5166701 270888 shaogo 1 5166710 I always make a small salad, but I'm pretty much the only one who wants it -- then most of the other people usually end up eating it as well. I like a little bit of crunchy refreshing greens to wash down all that heavy food, but then again, I am the sort who prefers to use EVOO instead of butter, even on Thanksgiving. Except for the pie, of course! I just make a mesclun salad (easy) with a light mustard vinaigrette, and maybe throw in a handful of chopped pecans and some apple slices or a grated carrot. This is probably a dumb question but: can you stuff a spatchcocked bird? BTW LOVE that word! I want to spatchcock the turkey now just so I can say it! Mon Nov 09 07:01:21 -0800 2009 5166582 1121375 visciole 2 5166718 there's no "cavity" to stuff with a spatchcocked bird (think of "spread eagle" ha ha) -- but you can spread it out over your dressing to cook -- best of both worlds, 'cause you get the turkey drippings down into the dressing, but the turkey doesn't take so long to cook. using foil covered oven bricks to press down on the bird will roast it even faster, because of the direct contact with a hot brick surface vs. circulating oven air (less of a heat conducter). here's a look at a spatchcocked chicken: http://retorte.blogspot.com/2009/10/magazine-monday-52-spatchcocked-chicken.html Mon Nov 09 07:05:26 -0800 2009 5166710 105717 alkapal 3 5166745 Thanks, that is very interesting! You know, I have to admit I'm pretty set in my Thanksgiving turkey cooking ways, but this looks seriously good, and I love the idea of the stuffing under the spatchcocked bird -- yum! SPATCHCOCK, SPATCHCOCKED, SPATCHCOCKING. That is such a spatchcockingly excellent word. Mon Nov 09 07:20:20 -0800 2009 5166718 1121375 visciole 4 5166761 v -- next you'll be donning a "spatchcock u." sweatshirt. *** *** sounds vaguely naughty, huh?! ;-)). Mon Nov 09 07:26:10 -0800 2009 5166745 105717 alkapal 4 5166881 If you decide to try it, have your butcher take out the backbone (save it for stock, of course!). It's unwieldy to try and do it yourself. Mon Nov 09 08:05:55 -0800 2009 5166745 12124 TorontoJo 5 5170239 The family have nixed the spatchcock -- they want traditional. But I will spatchcock on my own soon! Probably best to try first on a chicken, anyway. And yes, I do want a "Spatchcock You" (not "U") sweatshirt! Tue Nov 10 10:11:38 -0800 2009 5166881 1121375 visciole 6 5171959 i actually was thinking of doing that "spatchcock u." sweatshirt, and on the back, or as a logo on the front, a big ol' chicken waving a little flag. Tue Nov 10 23:02:08 -0800 2009 5170239 105717 alkapal 2 5166734 Ha, I know -- it's a great word. What alkapal said is exactly right -- you can just lay the bird on top of the dressing. Fair warning about a spatchcocked turkey, though -- it's funny looking. One guest told me the turkey looked like it was about to have a OB/gyn exam. :) So if your family has the tradition of bringing the grand, roasted bird on a platter to the table to "oohs" and "ahhs" and carving at the table, this kinda kills it. But we always carve in the kitchen and place the slices on a platter, so it works great for us. Thanks for all the thoughts about the salad, everyone. I'm leaning towards "no" on the salad and putting together a raw tray of some sort. Mon Nov 09 07:15:02 -0800 2009 5166710 12124 TorontoJo 3 5166741 go with the "relish tray" -- if there are leftovers, it makes for easy mixing into salads the next day. the neat thing about the relish tray, most of the things are easy to put together -- often just opening a jar of pickles or olives, or washing some baby carrots or grape tomatoes, laying out some artichoke hearts and hearts of palm, or giardiniera. (ps, save the glass jars for storage of "leftovers" from the tray in the fridge). raw cauliflower, broccoli florets, fennel chunks or celery sticks, iirc, are really the only thing one has to "do." also -- for "pretty" get the whole radishes with the greens attached, and also the radicchio or red endive. Mon Nov 09 07:18:49 -0800 2009 5166734 105717 alkapal 2 5167161 As for salad, I'd serve one last if at all. There's too much other stuff competing for plate and stomach space, and it seems unlikely people will want to have a salad as a separate first course. But after a heavy meal, something light and crisp might be just the thing to refresh the palate before subjecting it to dessert. As far as stuffing the bird, if I'm taking the Thanksgiving bird apart ahead of time, I like to use Julia Child's recipe for "laid back turkey." To prep, remove not only the backbone, but also the ribcage, pelvis, and thigh bones. It's easier than it sounds, and makes carving a snap. Plus, you get bones and trimmings for stock ahead of time. Once you've removed all the bones except the wings and the drumsticks, lay the bird skin-side down on a broiler pan and run it under the broiler until the flesh is nicely browned. Flip it over onto a big mound of stuffing and arrange it so that it's vaguely turkey-shaped again, then back into the oven at 350 until done. While I like the Norman Rockwellesque presentation of the whole bird, the laid-back version certainly saves oven time, and makes carving at the table a much more viable option. Mon Nov 09 09:35:37 -0800 2009 5166710 58743 alanbarnes 1 5166768 I vote yes, Jo, mostly because the salad you propose sounds lovely, simple and special according to the occasion. ;-) Mon Nov 09 07:29:04 -0800 2009 5166582 1104013 Normandie 1 5167427 Every year I make a salad because I think someone will want it, and every year I wrap it up and store it for a few days in the fridge and toss it. If I make any salad this year it will be a fruit sald like my mom would make, perhaps not her traditional Waldorf, but something similar. Refreshing and a palate cleanser. Mon Nov 09 10:55:52 -0800 2009 5166582 50431 chef chicklet 2 5167550 Good point - if you go with a bowl of salad, it will likely go to waste if you dress the whole bowl, unless you get inventive and add it to soup or a side dish. If you keep the dressing on the side, at least you can keep the leftover salad longer. Mon Nov 09 11:34:53 -0800 2009 5167427 159317 greygarious 3 5169836 So sorry I should of been more clear. I do make an undressed salad, and every year the undressed salad and the handmade salad dressing both lounge in the frigde for about a week and then I toss them out. I usually have so much food left over that the salad is the first to let go. I vow to not cook so dang much food this year. Tue Nov 10 07:57:03 -0800 2009 5167550 50431 chef chicklet 2 5169878 The Naked Salad by Shuna Lydon aka eggbeater is definitely my Thanksgiving fave. It's a beautiful salad of persimmon and pomegranate: http://blogs.kqed.org/bayareabites/2005/11/06/persimmons-please/ Tue Nov 10 08:10:20 -0800 2009 5167427 13519 Cynsa 1 5169597 My family demands the same usual and familiar Tgiving menu every year and whine/complain if I leave out any element. Quite a few years ago when I began our tradition, we started in the living room with cocktails and a few well chosen appetizers. The next course, served in the dining room, is a mixed green salad with radicchio, toasted pecans, blue cheese and roasted apples dressed with a raspberry vinaigrette. I have often wanted to cut out this course, because we follow with turkey and roasted fish, 5-6 side dishes, rolls and then a choice of 3 desserts. Everyone in my house vetoed cutting out the salad, they like the lightness of the course and the vinaigrette. If you want the dressing recipe, let me know. Tue Nov 10 06:19:15 -0800 2009 5166582 15139 Diane in Bexley 2 5170051 I, for one, would love to have the salad AND vinaigrette recipe. TIA. Tue Nov 10 09:10:57 -0800 2009 5169597 12520 walker 3 5172412 For 10 people: 2 oz good blue cheese crumbled 1 cup whole pecans, toasted in oven for 5-7 min @ 375 assorted mixed lettuce (6-8 cups) 1 small head radicchio, cored and chopped up 3 Granny Smith apples, pared, sliced and roasted for 10 min @ 375 w/ a little oil or butter Raspberry Vinaigrette 1 c. raspberry vinegar 2 c. extra virgin olive oil 1/4 cup pure maple syrup 3 tbsp. Dijon mustard 1 tbsp. whole grain mustard 1 tbsp. chopped fresh tarragon 1 tsp. salt 1/2 tsp. freshly cracked pepper This makes a lot of dressing which keeps for a long time in the fridge. Shake well before using. Wed Nov 11 07:12:47 -0800 2009 5170051 15139 Diane in Bexley 4 5173010 Thank you, sounds great. Although, 4 T of mustard sounds like a lot to me. Wed Nov 11 10:25:23 -0800 2009 5172412 12520 walker 5 5175103 We like it spicy. My suggestion is cut mustard in half, taste and adjust. You can always add more. Bon appetit! Thu Nov 12 05:54:29 -0800 2009 5173010 15139 Diane in Bexley 4 5173366 you know a neat presentation would be to lay the uncut radicchio leaves in a sunburst design on the mixed greens, then do a composed salad type of application of the toppings on each leaf of radicchio. i think the mustard looks about right. after all, this serves 10 -- using a cup of vinegar and 2 cups of oil. Wed Nov 11 12:31:13 -0800 2009 5172412 105717 alkapal 1 5171233 The salad sounds nice and it will go great with the torta for your vegetarian friends.... another option... Tue Nov 10 16:12:52 -0800 2009 5166582 1108638 Cherylptw 1 5172316 For many years I have served a small salad after the soup course. I make the salads on individual plates in the kitechn and serve as a seperate course. Pears sliced on top of lightly dressed arugala topped with walnuts and with blue cheese passed seperately (we have vegans in the family) has been very popular. This year it will be roasted beet and orange slices I think. Everyone seems to like the salad and I enjoy making it. I must stress the salad is very small but I try hard to make it look very pretty. When I have served a salad along with the main and sides - never gets eaten. Wed Nov 11 06:29:52 -0800 2009 5166582 18656 Fiona 2 5173012 Your salads sound delicious, too. What kind of dressing do you make? Wed Nov 11 10:25:53 -0800 2009 5172316 12520 walker 2 5173371 oh, fiona, that reminds me of a beet and blood orange (?) salad someone mentioned a while back here on chowhound. i seem to recall it had red onions and a sherry vinaigrette, too. (or was it done with fennel? hmmm, well, it'd be good either way....). http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/576330 Wed Nov 11 12:32:51 -0800 2009 5172316 105717 alkapal 3 5176622 Our traditional salad for Thanksgiving is sliced cucumbers and red onions salted and marinated in sour cream for at least a few hours. Wonderfully tart and tangy and rich all at the same time. Refreshing. Thu Nov 12 13:33:15 -0800 2009 5173371 10245 oakjoan 1 5180524 I wouldn't bother. There is so much other food, and no shortage of veggies. It will just go uneaten. Fri Nov 13 20:55:29 -0800 2009 5166582 87837 RGC1982 1 5180550 can you tell me how you do your balsamic glazed roasted onions? Thanks. Fri Nov 13 21:18:32 -0800 2009 5166582 15675 KellBell 2 5181122 Here's the recipe for the onions. They aren't pretty, but they are delicious! Note that I roast the onions at 400 instead of 500. I tried once at 500 and ended up with blackened onions. http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Balsamic-Roasted-Onions-102671 Sat Nov 14 08:52:52 -0800 2009 5180550 12124 TorontoJo 1 5181863 Normally I'd say it would be a waste to serve salad during one of those few occasions where you get to eat like a child. However, the interplay between your chosen salad ingredients and the rest of the menu should make it worthwhile. Perhaps a small salad to act as palate opener. Sat Nov 14 15:15:18 -0800 2009 5166582 12072 Googs 1 5182457 We do soup instead of salad at Thanksgiving. I make a curry pumpkin soup that simmers all day and people can just help themselves and sip while waiting to sit down to dinner. I also make little toasts spread with a roquefort mixture and topped with a thin slice of pear to nibble with the soup. Seems more seasonal to me than salad. Especially at a meal where we have so many vegetable side dishes as I see you are also planning. Sat Nov 14 21:21:53 -0800 2009 5166582 17969 rainey