665060 Thu Nov 05 18:26:18 -0800 2009 38 33 Food Media and News 0 5159726 http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/?em Thu Nov 05 18:26:18 -0800 2009 10074 Caitlin McGrath 1 5160394 COMPLETELY agree with #88. Don't ask me if I need change...say "I'll be right back with your change" and then I can either say "thank you" or "I'm good". If I'm asked if I need change, I say "yes" even if I intended to tip that amount. It's just tacky. Fri Nov 06 05:53:36 -0800 2009 5159726 109573 coney with everything 2 5160415 Aww, I call foul. Of course, there are some fine-dining settings where it's best if the server refrain from asking. But in most situations, if it's a close call between a reasonable tip amount and the amount of the customer's change, it doesn't hurt to ask. The reason is this: restaurant servers, in a busy setting, must have an efficiency of movement. Asking if a customer needs change is a question that helps a server plan logistics: should the server just set aside the check and payment, processing it with the cashier at a later (presumably less busy) time, or should the server visit the cashier right away to secure change for a table. Of all the restaurant server's sins, I think asking about change is a very, very minor one. Fri Nov 06 06:02:01 -0800 2009 5160394 270888 shaogo 3 5161827 While I agree that knowing whether you have to return to the table or not is logistically important, "I'll be back with your change." accomplishes the same thing and sounds classier. Fri Nov 06 13:42:01 -0800 2009 5160415 189144 dmjordan 3 5165977 I completely disagree. Making the rule and following all the time is the only way to run the business. Otherwise the server may assume the amount left is intended to be tip when it isn't, and the efficiency lost just isn't worth that risk. at a bar in Jack London Square (Oakland) a few years ago, I had one drink (cost about $7. I put down a twenty. Server asked, "Do you need change?" Not even sure the server thought about the fact that she was implying that would be a tip of more than 100%. She was probably just doing what she always does, but either way, I will never go back to that bar. Sun Nov 08 18:27:16 -0800 2009 5160415 10158 susancinsf 4 5165986 I think we've all been victimized by a dim-witted waiter or bartender who, when handed funds substantially greater than the bill (and perhaps don't bother to look first) utter "do you need change?" To those clueless individuals, I'll merely say "yes indeed, I need change for $(what I gave) against a $(check amount) bill." It points out to them how silly asking the question is in that circumstance. I then give thanks for my common sense, and think to myself "there but for the Grace of God go I." In all other cases, it's just a simple matter of answering a question that's been posed innocently enough. For me, it ain't a problem. Sun Nov 08 18:38:24 -0800 2009 5165977 270888 shaogo 5 5166060 It is not my job to educate a clueless server, and I don't want the discomfort of feeling that I need to do so. I'd rather just not go back. The rule is a good one IMO. Sun Nov 08 19:28:19 -0800 2009 5165986 10158 susancinsf 3 5178771 I disagree. I don't care if it's a matter of saving the server some steps. Bring me the change and let me decide how much to leave you for a tip. If i want you to keep the change I will certainly tell you up front. Fri Nov 13 09:18:09 -0800 2009 5160415 248284 taos 2 5182747 as ive said here a million times before - 99.9% of the time the server has not looked at how much money is sitting there before ze asks, so ze does not know if ze is asking for about a 5% or a 50% tip. The question does not bother me at all, as the effort of answering with either a 2 or 3 letter word (and hopefully followed by the word "please") takes way less effort than getting upset about complete nonsense. Servers are on their feet all day, cashing out is sometimes a pain, especially on a busy night. let them save a few steps on my account. i seriously don't mind Sun Nov 15 05:48:38 -0800 2009 5160394 135229 thew 1 5160434 Now I've read 'em all. I find it peculiar that the guy who forbids a server to ask the guest about change, *must,* according to rule No. 84, ask if the diner would like more coffee. If a diner doesn't want any more coffee, he/she will put their hand over the top of the coffee cup (or keep the cup from being taken away to be refilled). One of my biggest frustrations has occurred even in some very, very expensive restaurants: the first cup of coffee comes to the table and it's delicious. But because I have my dessert in front of me, the server's only concern is re-filling my coffee. Which they don't do. For an eternity. Then, when coffee's finally re-filled, there isn't enough cream for the second cup. Ack! Finally, No. 91 "if someone complains about the music, do something about it (without upsetting the ambience)..." is just plain silly. Certainly, if many customers in the dining room are upset with the volume, it should certainly be turned down. However, if one person chooses to complain, *any* adjustment of the music is indeed going to change the ambience for all the others seated in the restaurant. This question is a management question, not a server question. Fri Nov 06 06:15:35 -0800 2009 5159726 270888 shaogo 2 5170088 And what about those of us who like sugar and milk in our coffee and don't want to have to try and figure it out ten times because someone thinks that great service means compulsively keeping the coffee at the rim? Also, the hand over the cup thing just... no. All it takes is one time where you're a little bit too late and you get coffee poured on your hand. Tue Nov 10 09:22:01 -0800 2009 5160434 10811 Das Ubergeek 1 5161707 84. Do not refill a coffee cup compulsively. Ask if the guest desires a refill. Huge pet peeve. I hate it when they ruin the molarity of my coffee or tea. 61. Do not stand behind someone who is ordering. Make eye contact. Thank him or her. Huge problem for chains, the waiters/waitresses don't like to move for some reason. 68. Do not reach across one guest to serve another. Another pet peeve. The words:"Pardon my reach" makes me go ballistic. Unless it is a very small space and there is no room to maneuver, I am ready for that, but if the restaurant isof a reasonable size and the tables are properly spaced, get your fat butt around so that you can serve it properly. Fri Nov 06 13:04:45 -0800 2009 5159726 11826 Phaedrus 2 5161862 "I hate it when they ruin the molarity of my coffee or tea." BEST USE OF "MOLARITY" EVER! I love No. 53: "Do not let guests double-order unintentionally." At a Peruvian place I love, I once had a delicious mixed-seafood starter that I could have eaten more of. Which was a good thing, because I'd inadvertently ordered almost the exact same dish as my entree -- same seafood, some of the same sauce, only this time with a few more adornments. I so wish the server had alerted me, because when I made a remark about it, she said, "I wondered about that, but didn't want to seem like I was telling you what to get." I wasn't angry in the least, but wouldn't have minded her saying something in the least. This one could be taken several ways: "Refrain from touching the wet spots on the guest." Fri Nov 06 13:52:42 -0800 2009 5161707 130151 dmd_kc 2 5166005 I'm not a scientist but I figured out what "molarity" means. I dine occasionally with a doctor friend who's going to love it when I start discussing the molarity of my coffee. And I'm just as fussy as you, Phaedrus, about the amount of sugar/cream in my coffee. So I'm going to remember that. The places I usually go to, my cup's empty long before they have the presence of mind to "warm" it. Sun Nov 08 18:48:36 -0800 2009 5161707 270888 shaogo 1 5162341 The only one I truly disagree with is #85 - "Never bring a check until someone asks for it. Then give it to the person who asked for it." I prefer that the server drop the check and say "I'll take that when you're ready," or whatever. I don't like having to ask for the check; it makes the end of the meal feel too suspenseful. And I'll add one: If the credit card used to pay the tab has a woman's name on it, do not return with the check and place it in front of a man. Take a moment to consider who will be leaving the tip. She may be thin-skinned, petty and vengeful (in other words, she may be me). Fri Nov 06 16:57:53 -0800 2009 5159726 13722 small h 2 5166056 Americans expect the check to be dropped off at the appropriate end of the meal. Europeans always ask for the check. I'm not sure that one is better than the other; it's just what you are accustomed to. Sun Nov 08 19:25:55 -0800 2009 5162341 24468 chicgail 3 5170091 And Vietnamese make you go up to the counter and get the bill. :) Tue Nov 10 09:23:11 -0800 2009 5166056 10811 Das Ubergeek 4 5177553 <And Vietnamese make you go up to the counter and get the bill. :)> Which would be fine with me. As long as I get to control the pace of the meal's end, I am happy. chicgail is right, also. On my first trip to Paris, at age 20, I sat miserably for what seemed like decades in Chez Wadja, desperately trying to remember the French phrase for "check, please" so I could get the hell out of there. Eventually "L'addition, s'il vous plaît" popped into my head. The other patrons actually applauded. Obviously, I can never go back (even if it were still open, which I don't think it is). Thu Nov 12 19:38:55 -0800 2009 5170091 13722 small h 5 5178802 The last time I was in Paris I was having breakfast in a café and I'd actually sat down to take my time... there was a group of American college-age kids at a nearby table who were trying their hardest with a phrasebook and just failing utterly (they called the waiter "garçon", which is just the kiss of death for any service you might want to have). They went back to the US knowing at least one sentence in French—"Pardon, monsieur, l'addition, s'il vous plaît." Fri Nov 13 09:24:35 -0800 2009 5177553 10811 Das Ubergeek 6 5180794 "Garçon" is not a good way to get service in France but imagine what happened to the American tourists who in their confusion called out "Gendarme!" instead Sat Nov 14 05:12:08 -0800 2009 5178802 24468 chicgail 2 5166147 That always really irritates me--I hand them the credit card, it's got a woman's name on it, and they often return it to my husband. The smarter ones put it in a neutral place between us. Sun Nov 08 20:20:06 -0800 2009 5162341 13306 Nettie 2 5182755 i disagree with you completely. i HATE when a place brings an unasked for check. In my younger, snarkier days that alone would guarantee the order of a cup of tea from me after the check was dropped off. Sun Nov 15 05:56:25 -0800 2009 5162341 135229 thew 3 5182771 I'm sure lots of people disagree with me, or it wouldn't be common practice. I also can't stand staring at my empty plate and would like it cleared, even if other people at the table are still eating. Obviously, there's no system that works for everyone. Since there are no longer smoking sections in Manhattan restaurants (sigh), maybe there could be no-need-to-ask-for-the-check sections instead. Sun Nov 15 06:03:37 -0800 2009 5182755 13722 small h 1 5165938 I just took another look at parts I and II of this list -- and at the comments left on the NY Times's website. Boy, I thought some Chowhounds were picky. The Times readers' responses to the list -- complete with additional, suggested list items -- merely confirmed a suspicion that I've had for a long time. There are people who go out to eat and consider their meal "ruined" if just one little aspect of service is wrong. I've met these people in my tenure in the restaurant business. Sadly, the glass is *less* than half full for these folks. It seems that the only pleasure they derive out of going out to eat is seeing how much food and beverage comp (freebies) they can earn with their complaining. Oh, and because they're upset anyway, they're going to stiff the waiter, too. In fact, these people can now carry around a printed copy of the list, and should one of the 100 rules be broken (or even bent) by their server, they've now got a handy-dandy excuse to go about not tipping. On the other end of the spectrum, a man named Patrick McGuire has a blog called "Server, Not Servant." McGuire's published his "64 Suggestions for Restaurant Customers" in response to Buschel's lists for servers. It's here: http://www.servernotservant.com/2009/11/05/64-suggestions-for-restaurant-customers/#comments I'd love to see what Chowhounds think of *that.* Sun Nov 08 18:09:53 -0800 2009 5159726 270888 shaogo 2 5165995 <I'd love to see what Chowhounds think of *that.*> So would Patrick McGuire, since he's been plugging his site all over Chowhound. As to what I think of it, I think one really lousy customer came into the restaurant where McGuire works and committed every sin on his list. Because that's how it reads. I was over Waiterrant a long time ago. Not sure why we need another one. Sun Nov 08 18:41:07 -0800 2009 5165938 13722 small h 3 5166282 No, that's not the case at all anonymous small h. I worked in the bar and restaurant industry off and on for 12 years. During my tenure I was always intrigued by how and why people behaved the way that they did in public, and how they treated folks in my profession. I've done some extensive research over the last 3 years to find out what other people who have been in the industry thought. My research is on-going, thus the reason for launching my blog. I don't currently work in a restaurant, and haven't for years. I have become friendly with many servers because I dine out often. It's appalling to witness what some people feel is acceptable behavior, not just in restaurants, but everywhere. I'm trying to create a dialogue and an awareness for unacceptable customer behavior towards service industry professionals. The scope of my project is a lot more broad than Steve Dublanica's. Human-to-Human Service is the heart and soul of the book. I'm sorry for the intrusion on your privacey. I'm not aware of a better way to engage in a dialogue about these issues than social networking sites like Chowhound. I'd love to see what you think of that. Respectfully yours, Patrick Maguire http://www.servernotservant.com/ Sun Nov 08 22:04:10 -0800 2009 5165995 1120504 PJ SNS 4 5166543 This here is a dialogue. But posting a list of "things restaurant employees hate" and asking, essentially, am I right, people? am I right? is not a dialogue, as far as I'm concerned. It's the internet equivalent of standing on a soapbox and yelling at passersby. That said, the internet is a big place, and you're not doing me or anyone else any harm. I just wish there was some sort of warning on sites for the habitually and humorlessly appalled, so I could avoid them. P.S. It makes no sense to sign off with "respectfully" when you've snottily added the word "anonymous" to my user name a few paragraphs up. One cancels the other out. Mon Nov 09 05:22:38 -0800 2009 5166282 13722 small h 5 5166553 Not going to take the bait and engage you, but I will correct one point. My list is titled, "64 Suggestions for Restaurant Customers." http://www.servernorservant.com/ Mon Nov 09 05:28:20 -0800 2009 5166543 1120504 PJ SNS 2 5178815 Most of the 64 Suggestions can be wrapped up into one: "Don't be a selfish jerk." They apply in any human interaction with strangers, whether in a restaurant, doctor's office or movie theater. I don't see a whole lot that is specific to a restaurant situation. I might suggest one more: #65 Don't publish a self-righteous list on the internet dictating every aspect of expected customer restaurant behavior. While it might make you feel better, it won't change the behavior of the 19% who act rudely and will only antagonize the 81% who are already acting appropriately. Fri Nov 13 09:26:51 -0800 2009 5165938 248284 taos 3 5179961 taos- I agree that most of the items could be wrapped up into one as you suggest. However, responding to a list of 100 items (Buschel's) by suggesting one, would not have been as effective. A healthy debate and dialogue have ensued all over the Internet, in part due to my lengthy list. As far as your suggestion for me, I'm not dictating anything. I published 64 suggestions. I'm sorry I antagonized you. (I'm assuming you're in the 81% club, despite the fact that your tone suggests otherwise.) Have a nice weekend. -PM http://www.servernotservant.com/ Fri Nov 13 15:52:17 -0800 2009 5178815 1120504 PJ SNS 3 5182762 this list was discussed to death on NY yelp. it is humourless and dull to the extreme. it basically just says everything wrong is the customers fault, and they should expect and be happy for shoddy service. Sun Nov 15 05:59:37 -0800 2009 5178815 135229 thew 4 5189663 "it basically just says everything wrong is the customers fault." No, it doesn't. It says that the customer is responsible for treating the staff like they would want to be treated, with respect and civility. For the record, I stated above my list that I agreed with almost all of Mr. Buschel"s list. FYI- I'm advocating for professional servers, not shoddy servers. My suggestions were based on the assumption that a server needs to do a great job. "Doing a great job means showing up on time, prepared for work, trained and dressed properly, knowing your job, being pleasant and attentive, and hustling your ass off to provide exceptional service. Great customer service workers are resourceful, resilient and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done right. Ideally, employees should be invested in what they are doing and act as ambassadors for the company that they work for. Sometimes you need to suck it up, put your game face on, and do a great job even though you don’t want to be there. Even when you’re at the tail end of a double and ‘the dogs are barking’ you need to persevere and accomodate customers as much as possible. I realize that if you’ve been a server for a long time, and you’ve been beaten down shift after shift, year after year, that it’s hard to be pleasant and on top of your game all of the time. However, the job is still a choice (in most cases), and you have to keep trying, or get out." -PM http://www.servernotservant.com/ Tue Nov 17 14:38:47 -0800 2009 5182762 1120504 PJ SNS 1 5177392 I'm amazed no one has taken #97 to task - "If a guest raves about a dish, tell him/her you'll get the recipe from the chef." Is this guy freakin' kidding? I've worked as a server in a busy restaurant. If I had walked into the kitchen during the middle of service, and asked the chef for a recipe, he'd have chased me out with a cleaver. The guy is like a conductor, trying to ensure that all the parts of his little orchestra are working together, that the dishes are cooked properly, plated properly, and picked up promptly, all the while trying to maintain communication with the front of the house ("Only 5 specials left", "How many covers to come"). It's as if you asked your waitress in Las Vegas to go to the performer and ask for a copy of his arrangement in the middle of his performance. Now, maybe - just maybe - if it was late, service was slowing down, and the chef seemed to have a minute, I might have asked him, but I would have been very timid about it; the chefs I've known are as protective of their "own" recipes as they are of their knives. Thu Nov 12 18:12:25 -0800 2009 5159726 1104506 FrankD 2 5177406 Well, he's referring to his own restaurant, so perhaps he will ensure the recipes are already available from the chef beforehand. Or perhaps he'll be hearing from his irate chef. Thu Nov 12 18:19:11 -0800 2009 5177392 10074 Caitlin McGrath 2 5178811 Or, if the server would like to provide the service, he could take the diner's e-mail address and e-mail the recipe when the kitchen is not "dans la merde". That would be, IMNSHO, well above and beyond the call of duty, though. Fri Nov 13 09:25:51 -0800 2009 5177392 10811 Das Ubergeek 3 5180574 I appreciate both your replies, but that's not what the original #97 said - he didn't say "I'll see if I can get it when the kitchen is less busy", or "We have some recipes on file; let me see if this in them", both of which are perfectly acceptable server responses to me; he said "Tell him you WILL get the recipe from the chef" (emphasis mine). When I say "I will" to a guest, I think that means he pretty much expects me to do it short of a fire or mariachi band invasion. Fri Nov 13 21:45:39 -0800 2009 5178811 1104506 FrankD 4 5180733 It says, "97. If a guest goes gaga over a particular dish, get the recipe for him or her. " That's ridiculous. It's not the chef's job to give out his or her recipes and it's definitely not the server's job to assume that just because the diner likes the dish he or she wants to make it at home. That's an assumption that borders on rude. Sat Nov 14 03:57:07 -0800 2009 5180574 248284 taos 5 5182714 "It's not the chef's job to give out his or her recipes" Considering these lists have been written by the restaurant owner for his own restaurant, I'm sure as owner, he will make it the chef's job to give out his or her recipes. Sun Nov 15 05:18:47 -0800 2009 5180733 139219 Sooeygun 1 5180885 55. Do not serve an amuse-bouche without detailing the ingredients. Allergies are a serious matter; peanut oil can kill. (This would also be a good time to ask if anyone has any allergies.) Yes allergies are a serious matter, but I think people with severe allergies will do the asking. 58. Do not bring judgment with the ketchup. Or mustard. Or hot sauce. Or whatever condiment is requested. I think should read "Do not bring judgement to the table." How many times did I gratingly hear "ewwwww you LIKE oysters?...I can't stand them." 72. Do not serve salad on a freezing cold plate; it usually advertises the fact that it has not been freshly prepared. I dunno, I kept our salad plates in the fridge, but made every salad to order... 98. Do not wear too much makeup or jewelry. You know you have too much jewelry when it jingles and/or draws comments. I am not aware of the first 50, but besides makeup DONT WEAR PERFUME OR HAND CREAM. As a restaurant owner and even more importantly as a diner, I find this highly offensive when I'm eating. Again, not knowing the first 50, I will say a server shouldn't advertise kitchen/restaurant failings. eg, "we don't have the pizza right now cause the dough isn't defrosted yet". Sat Nov 14 06:35:16 -0800 2009 5159726 176627 porker