From the BBC: The Rise of the Non-Veggie Vegetarian

[BobB]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/ma...

Interesting article on the various flavors of vegetarianism, from strictest vegan to those who simply don't eat red meat yet still consider themselves "vegetarians."

[DGresh]

personally I think people who try to "blur the lines" do a disservice to all who are vegan or vegetarian. I say this as the mother of a vegetarian, for whom it means what I believe is the standard definition: no fish, no fowl, no red meat, no crustaceans, no shellfish, NO ANIMALS. Vegan means that plus no animal products. It's straight-forward, and easy to understand. Those who call themselves vegetarians and eat fish lead inevitably to situations (as I've seen on boards here) where people start suggesting tuna based dishes for a vegetarian friend, and justify it with "I know lots of vegetarians who eat fish". They should call themselves pescatarians, or non-red-meat eaters, whatever.

[MandalayVA]

A term that used to be in vogue but I don't think is anymore is "ovo-lacto vegetarian," which was someone who didn't eat meat but did eat eggs and dairy.

[Sooeygun]

The ovo-lacto vegetarian is generally what is meant these days by vegetarian. At least among the people I know and the restaurants I have been too.

I do have a friend who is completely vegetarian at home and when she has control over what she is being served, but in circumstances where nothing else can be done will eat fish/seafood (for example dinner at someone's house who doesn't know my friend is veggie...she would rather not make a big deal about it when it's someone not close enough to know she is veggie). She did start out with more fish in her diet when she was heading for vegetarianism, but now has it only very rarely in special circumstances. I feel comfortable calling her a vegetarian, because in a perfect world she would be.

Although even when people do know she is a vegetarian and assure her that she doesn't need to bring anything cause they have it covered, she often finds herself eating veggies sticks and dip. Like when people say 'Oh, this is vegetarian, it just has a little chicken stock in it. That doesn't count does it?'

[Cachetes]

I think I'm going to be unpopular by saying this, but I'm forging ahead. I'm old enough to remember the days when many people declared themselves to be vegetarian b/c they wanted to claim that identity and all of the politics and symbolism that it invokes, even as they continued to eat meat on the sly (or, more typically, with an extended and sheepish rationalization as to why this was an exception as they ordered their burger). I think this was more common in the late 1980s/1990s, though my husband has a close friend who still is this way.

This sort of behavior, much more than whether people actually eat meat or not, is a big turnoff to me.

[LStaff]

Just fry up some bacon, and you will see who the fakers are. ;-)

[newhavener07]

I like the attitude of some Buddhists: They are strictly vegetarian at home by preference, but if they are offered meat, they honor the sacrfice of the animal that died and the person who prepared and offered the food and eat what's in front of them. I think what has given vegetarianism a bad name in the wider U.S. media is the lack of respect some veggies show others. Being gracious to a host will win far more converts in the long run.

[elfcook]

I find it annoying, and sometimes a bit humorous, when a "vegetarian" eats chicken or fish. We have one in the extended family who is "vegetarian" due to the "it is cruel to eat animals" argument. Evidently, "sea kittens" are exempt, as long as they do not taste too fishy. ( In other words, fish is ok, except for fishy fish.) And don't get me started on the wearing of leather by the same person.

As far as I am concerned, eat what you want, don't eat what you don't want. But do not call yourself a vegetarian unless you avoid all animals, regardless of how cute they are.

[grant.cook]

I think this whole labeling thing is a huge waste of time. If you come to my house for a dinner party and you don't eat something I've prepared, well, I'll get the Doritos out of the cupboard so you can munch. In the same vein, if I come to your house and you are serving me a faux-turkey made out of molded pureed lentils and wheat grass, I''ll try it out. If you want to go to a restaurant where the only thing on the menu is steamed asparagus and carrot juice, we aren't going out again. Otherwise, what you eat is up there with who you sleep with - its none of my business, don't try to make it my business, and in general, I don't care.

[newhavener07]

I like that--just keep your food preferences to yourself unless asked directly. If people are interested in debating the merits of vegetarianism, that's one thing. But if not, just make sure you go to places that have lots of options or alert your host in advance. Let's take food choices out of the conversational realm, along with preference of sexual positions and religion. You won't be making any converts over dinner.

[laliz]

there are "vegetarians" who avoid vegetables. Thier diets seem to be carb based

[dmd_kc]

In my many, many years in the vegetarian trenches (I've reverted back to eating omnivorously), I knew TONS of vegetarians and even vegans who had absolutely terrible diets -- living on fries, corn chips, candy. I knew several who gained a lot of weight upon conversion.

I have very strong opinions about the lifestyle today, which I keep mostly to myself. But I've since learned it's often about calling attention to oneself, and the actual dietary and health concerns are mostly secondary, if people could be objective about themselves.

[Harters]

Interesting article. As pointed out by the Vegetarian Society (which happens to have its offices about 15 minutes away from here), British vegetarians do not eat creatures. However, it's clear for the article that many folk who are not full omnivores find it a useful shorthand description seeing as we don't have any other word in common usage.

If folk come to dinner and have restricted diets, I just hope they tell us in advance rather than looking in horror at the pigeon starter and rabbit casserole main.

[dave_c]

This is going to sound sexist, but I've noticed that the majority of people that call themselves vegetarians, but still eat meat tend to be women. I have theories why that's so, but won't bore you all with it.

[dmjordan]

I'd love to hear your theory. Because I have a frenemy that is "vegetarian", yet still eats chicken and fish!!! Yet she practically hurled when she found out that the onion dip that I made, that she was scarfing down, contained one beef bouillon cube. I've called her on it more than once and she still calls herself a vegetarian.

[newhavener07]

I blame it on "When Harry Met Sally:" Meg's Ryan's annoying persnicketyness at the table has helped reinforce the "picky eaters are cute and girly" meme. Or it could be some evolutionary thing whereby the desireable females make it difficult for men to please them, thereby proving their value. Or maybe it's just Friday and my brain looks like a chunk of seitan that's been in the pressure cooker too long....

[small h]

Oh, please bore me with your theory. I promise to act interested (because I actually am interested).

[Philly Ray]

My theory is that many teen girls and women who call themselves a "vegetarian" are just disguising an eating disorder by wrapping themselves in the politics of that term.

[ferret]

It's not like there'a regulatory organization that declares clear boundaries, so big whup. There are rationalizations for all food aversions. Some are admittedly nonsensical, but I can see people avoiding red meat, or pork or all meat, or non-sustainable seafood for reasons that have some internal logic. Live & let live.

[BobB]

"Live & let live."

I think that's most vegetarians' point. ;-)

[PhilD]

Ferret, I agree live and let live. But it is painful trying to be a good host if it is unclear what a guests beliefs are. I will happily cater for veggies and pesky's (is that the correct abbreviation of Pescatarian?) but it is nice to know which target I am trying to hit. To me a Veggie is a veggie, if they eat fish they are not veggie, they are pesky.