663790 Sat Oct 31 17:38:00 -0700 2009 15 41 Cookware 0 5145857 Hey guys, I have seen some good deals on eBay for the Wusthof Classic Ikon and Wusthof Blackwood Ikon knives. I like the heel-less bolster (as they call it) on Ikon: bolster, but not extended down to the full heel. I am not going to get an entire set, just one or two knives. Does anyone has experience with the Classic Ikon or the Blackwood Ikon. I have not ever hold one before, so I do not even know how it feels. The Blackwood Ikon is more expensive, but it has an African blackwood handle. Not sure, if it worth extra ~30% more. Thanks. Sat Oct 31 17:38:00 -0700 2009 1110551 Chemicalkinetics 1 5146087 I'm no knife expert, but I've almost completely swapped out my (not very good) Henkels for the Wusthof Classic IKON--mostly because I LOVE LOVE LOVE how they feel in my hand: heavy, but not too heavy; balanced, substantial, comfortable (I have arthritis)....I don't get cramps from holding them even for long periods of time, as I do most knives. And they look so DAMNED classy, with their little steel nubbins on the end, shining out of the knife block. There, an almost completely unscientific recommendation. :-) Oh, and I got ALL mine on Ebay at great prices, from two main sellers. Sat Oct 31 20:46:47 -0700 2009 5145857 70211 Beckyleach 2 5146191 Thanks Becky, I like the Ikon trimmed bolster and the look of the new handle. It looks ergonomic with the back of the handle larger than the front of the handle. Afterall, when our hands closed, we tend to put more force between the thumb and the index than the pinky area. I was just worry that maybe Ikon over-corrected the handle. I read someone from cheftalk.com that maybe Ikon trying to be too smart for its own good. So it is good to hear that you have a great experience with its handle. Yeah, the Ikon looks very classy. It has this modern look, but not too modern. It also has this "I am serious about cooking" look too. One Ebay price is very good. For example, a Classic Ikon paring knife for $35. That is cheaper than a normal Wusthof Classic paring knife on Amazon.com. Another Ebay seller, she said she will have Blackwood Ikon knives coming soon next week. I cannot wait to see what she will have. Sat Oct 31 23:09:58 -0700 2009 5146087 1110551 Chemicalkinetics 2 5162361 Becky, Just got my Ikon blackwood paring knife. Nice blade, excellent ergonomic handle. It wasn't over-corrected as some suggested. However, the end cap/end bolster shifts the weight to the back, so the center-of-gravity is definitely at the handle. This is nothing I cannot adapt to, of course. So far, I like it quiet a bit. Fri Nov 06 17:08:53 -0800 2009 5146087 1110551 Chemicalkinetics 3 5164109 I think I like having the weight shifted toward the back like that, as I'm an Over Anxious cutter (I over-brush, too. My dentist despairs of me) and thus it tends to balance out my tendency to put too much force down on the cutting blade...Glad you like your knife! Sat Nov 07 17:42:02 -0800 2009 5162361 70211 Beckyleach 4 5165309 Why would your dentist despair you for cleaning your teeth? Are you roughing your gum to the point of bleeding? I think I am adapable to different knives as long as they are not too strange. I remember when I wasn't comfortable when first shifted from the smaller and lighter Seiko Chinese Chef's knife to the the longer and heavier Dexter-Russell Chef's knife. Now, I am so used to the Dexter that I feel so weird using the previous one. I think the ikon will grow on me. The feeling isn't that weird too, just a touch heavy on the handle. Thanks for your original confimation on your positive experience with Ikon. I was worry about the handle being over-corrected, but now that I am using one, the handle is not at all over-corrected. Oh yes, one more thing. Unlike a Henckels paring knife I have (a cheap L series), the Ikon knife is pretty sharp out of the box, so I don't feel the need to sharpen it for now. I had to do that for the Henckels. http://www.amazon.com/Henckels-Twin-Kitchen-2-Piece-Set/dp/B0007YTNVQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1257713201&sr=8-2 Sun Nov 08 12:43:24 -0800 2009 5164109 1110551 Chemicalkinetics 5 5165687 I can't help you with the handle issue, Chemical, but I did arrive, after using various knives, on a Wusthof Classic chef's knife for most items. I use a Sabatier carbon steel for a few meat applications, but for most items, I really like the Wusthof. I find the blade to be very responsive to simple honing with a steel in between sharpenings (which my butcher does for me). The Wusthof blade seems lighter than other knives I've used. I don't know whether I find it a pleasure to use *because* or *despite* that, but it's served me well, and I hope you'll enjoy your Ikon. Sun Nov 08 15:54:53 -0800 2009 5165309 1104013 Normandie 6 5165719 Normandie, You must know your butcher as a friend because I am sure I cannot just go to my butcher and ask him to sharpen my knife. But that is ok. I can sharpen mine on my own :) So far, I am enjoying it but we will see in a few weeks. It is not cheap even it is on sale on EBay. I bought it for $50, but it would have been like $80 elsewhere. Sun Nov 08 16:09:25 -0800 2009 5165687 1110551 Chemicalkinetics 7 5165759 Nope; it's strictly a vendor-customer relationship, but obviously he is a service-minded guy. It's not at all unusual around here, though, Chemical, but I don't know where you live. Many supermarket meat counters will do it around here for you, too. I did check at the supermarket I frequent, but I don't think the employees there are really trained as *butchers*, per se, and while they offer the service, they didn't seem to know a lot about knives, so I decided to stick with my "specialist". I'm not criticizing the guys at the supermarket, though, because I haven't had much luck sharpening my own, either :-). So I'll just stick to intermediate honing. You're right; they're not cheap knives, but they're not the most exhorbitant, either. I think you got a good deal. I want to get one more chef's knife, and it will be a Wusthof, too--either another Classic or an Ikon. I know some people have preferences for Asian or ceramic knives, but I like the European or Sheffield (have a *great* Sheffield carving knife that was my father's). I was surprised when I got the Wusthof, though, at the lightness of the blade, compared to the Sabatier, but it also makes it fairly agile. Sun Nov 08 16:27:47 -0800 2009 5165719 1104013 Normandie 8 5165834 How much do you get charged by your butcher? I guess I just shop at supermarkets or meat markets on the street. I have never been to straight butcher shops. No, I don't trust typical supermarket guys to sharpen my knives as well. I am pretty sure they won't take care of my knives. Wusthof are not super expensive, as you pointed out, but they are probably my limit at this point in my life. I don't think I will spend much more expensive on a paring knife. I did double check my Blackwood Ikon knife with a loupe to see if it is a real Wusthof. I looked through it from top to bottom and nothing seems out of place. I like Asian knives. I have one :) A Dexter-Russell Chinese chef's knife, so technically it is a American knife by production: http://www.dexter1818.com/Item_Details_1.asp?id=159&line=T . I may get a Japanese knife someday. On the other hand, I don't know if I really NEED one. Ceramic knives are definitely a no-no for me. I cannot sharp them on my own and they are brittle. If I crack it, it will be a permanent damage, and I am certain I will break it at some point. Yes, I know a ceramic knife is very hard very strong, but it is not very tough. I rather have a crack resistance knife over a roll resistance knife -- in general term. By the way, I find honing tougher than sharpening. Sun Nov 08 17:07:49 -0800 2009 5165759 1110551 Chemicalkinetics 9 5166220 No, Chemical...butchers and supermarket meat counters that sharpen knives for customers don't charge for it (around here, anyway). It's just a courtesy they provide to their customers. Some will have a sign at their counters advertising that they offer this and others you have to ask, but most will do it. I don't think I'd spend much more than one has to for a Wusthof or Sabatier, either. I'll spend more on a pot, if it's something I'll use a lot, but I am happy with the Wusthof and Sabatier, so why spend more. As I said earlier, my Wusthof is very versatile. On the other hand, the Sabatier's uses seem more limited to me. I don't like cutting vegetables with it and, of course, because it's carbon steel, not stainless, there are some foods like onions that it will discolor. But it slices so beautifully and precisely when, for example, I buy a larger cut of meat that I want to cut up and freeze for individual recipe use, and it also handles some of the slightly tougher jobs--for example, spatchcocking a chicken and trimming the wing and drumstick joints--that don't quite require a cleaver. Like you, I'm not interested in ceramic knives, not at all. I know their users are devoted to them, but I know myself. I will chip them, and rather than going through the trouble of mailing them away to be sharpened, I'll let them collect dust in the drawer when the time comes. So why bother having them? They are brittle. What size was this knife you bought? Or did you buy two? (I couldn't quite figure it out reading through the posts.) I'll be very interested to know how you feel about the Ikon(s) after you've had even more of a chance to use them, with different textures, over the next few weeks. Sun Nov 08 21:14:50 -0800 2009 5165834 1104013 Normandie 10 5166312 Normandie, I lived in California, Georgia and now living in New Jersey. I don't remember free knife sharpening service in my supermarkets. Are both of your Wusthof and Sabatier knives shaped as French Chef’s knife? Or is it only the Wusthof a Chef’s knife? I was a bit clear earlier. I wanted to get a paring knife and was considering Wusthof, Shun and Dexter-Russell. However, I bought a Henckels Twin L paring knife and shears because my coworker wanted me to buy another set along with hers, so that she can be qualified for the Amazon Free Shipping. http://www.amazon.com/Henckels-Twin-Kitchen-2-Piece-Set/dp/B0007YTNVQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1257746007&sr=8-2 I thought it looks good on the picture and bought the set. The shears are not bad, but I don’t like the paring knife. It is very thin, too flexible and feels flimsy. This prompted me to get another paring knife. In short, I got an Ikon Blackwood paring knife – just one. I used the Ikon paring knife tonight along with the Henckels L paring knife and the Ikon paring knife definitely cut and feels much better. I will let you know more in the next few weeks. Sun Nov 08 22:23:26 -0800 2009 5166220 1110551 Chemicalkinetics 5 5165741 "Over-brushing" is a dentisty term for brushing too hard. It erodes your gums...they creep up and up, till the roots start to be exposed, thus making me "Long in the tooth." :-D Sun Nov 08 16:21:28 -0800 2009 5165309 70211 Beckyleach 6 5165806 Becky, You should use a soft headed toothbrush if you are not already. Sun Nov 08 16:55:15 -0800 2009 5165741 1110551 Chemicalkinetics 7 5166848 :-D (that's my long-toothed grin) I am....but my dentist says I really should buy a good quality electric, instead. At least I've got great biceps! Mon Nov 09 07:55:47 -0800 2009 5165806 70211 Beckyleach 8 5167557 Becky, I was going to suggest that. I don't know if you need really expensive one, but you don't want those $10 ones. When you try to press an electric brusher hard against your teeth, it will slow down or stop. So, you cannot really brush your teeth or your gum too hard. You can still overbrush them by brushing "too long", but not "too hard" Mon Nov 09 11:36:14 -0800 2009 5166848 1110551 Chemicalkinetics