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Beliefs Challenged By a Restaurant

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wew Oct 27, 2009 09:08 AM

I thought that after I had decided to omit foie gras but to continue with the rest of my omni eating ways I was immune from thought provoking challenges in diet and restaurants. The occasional sudden walk out when I saw a staff member hurt or humiliated followed from long held views on the general subject of abuse of power and bullying not anything new in my world. Recently I received a blow to this self image, of what (?)moral invincibility, from a strange quarter, and this has caused me some time to assimilate. I am wondering if any other of you have had restaurant experiences that have caused fundamental changes in your view of the world.
What happened to was reading a post in which a beverage was recommended who's name was Car Bomb. I, in the past, would never have believed that the name of a offering in a restaurant would effect me so that I would refuse to eat it or even eat at the naming establishment, but this is very much the case. After the first rush from reading the above I thought of possible props for allowing the name of a object of pleasure to be a currently used instrument of pain. I dismissed several - the owners of the restaurant advocate the ends and means of the users of autos in this manner and are directly using this offering as a way to glorify car bombs - ignorance of what a car bomb is and how it effects, changes, ones life - theses came and were rejected. There is a tradition of naming and referencing terrible events to make a bitter, satiric point, in literature from Swift to the Dead Kennedies, but where is the desire to make a legit point here? What is left?
(A second idea of some note occurred to me. If I were to set up rules for discussing food I would hope to avoid many difficult issues by asking that the talk stay on the food itself. This I have found from this example also has a limit for me that I never expected to reach that is a person could honestly recommends a dish who's name causes the first discussion to prompt non food thought. Here I think it is simply a matter of the a mistaken assumption of good faith on all parties violated by the restaurant.)
So what is your situation? Have you found yourself challenged by a restaurant?

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  1. invinotheresverde RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 09:28 AM

    I have not found myself challenged by any restaurants I can think of. Just wanted to let you know that a Car Bomb is an extremely popular drink (at least in my part of the US). I'd have to cut out almost every restaurant/bar/club serving Guinness if I was taking a stand.

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    1. Ali G RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 09:52 AM

      You are way over thinking this. I agree that real car bombs have destroyed many lives, but if you walk into any bar and ask a bartender to make you an Irish Car Bomb, 99% will know exactly what you are asking for and most (maybe not fine dining establishments) will make you one. This drink has been around for a very long time and I seriously doubt any restaurant or bartender is advocating terrorism by making one. Maybe it was a poor naming choice by the originator of the drink, but how can you honestly believe that an establishment would want to glorify car bombs by selling the drink?

      There is a history of making offensive cocktail names in the hopes that it will stick in your head and you will continue to order them. Maybe Sex On The Beach advocates public fornication. Maybe we should avoid bars that sell those as well?

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      1. re: Ali G
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        givemecarbs RE: Ali G Oct 28, 2009 12:07 AM

        Agree with most of the posters here. Back in the day it was something of a tradition to drink a Rusty Nail or three on the friday before Easter I always preferred to down a jelly bean.

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        CookieLee RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 09:59 AM

        I think you can only answer what you consider a "challenge" by taking your business to another restaurant.

        As to the names of drinks, there are a lot of drinks with names that are offensive. Pearl Harbor as the name of a drink comes to mind.

        Ali G, I LOVE the name Sex On The Beach, hehe.

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          small h RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 10:28 AM

          The Bloody Mary is probably named after Queen Mary 1, who was called that because she had a mess of heretics burned at the stake. I am generally against the burning of heretics, but I've got to drink SOMETHING with my brunch, and I don't like mimosas. So what's a girl to do?

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          1. re: small h
            LA Buckeye Fan RE: small h Oct 29, 2009 04:17 PM

            lol small h! I'd be happy to share my pitcher of Sangria with you.

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            1. re: LA Buckeye Fan
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              small h RE: LA Buckeye Fan Oct 29, 2009 04:32 PM

              Oh, that's very kind. But doesn't the word Sangria have something to do with BLOOD? We're right back where we started!

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            Harters RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 10:41 AM

            I've been in close proximity to an Irish Car Bomb.

            That is, a real genuine car bomb planted by the Provisional IRA, not a drinkie. It was a scary thing - the bomb, not the drinkie.

            However, I doubt if I would bat an eyelid if I saw a drink of this name. No doubt, it would be in the similarly tasteful company of a "Sex on the Beach" or a "Long Screw Against the Wall"

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            1. re: Harters
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              FrankD RE: Harters Oct 27, 2009 02:04 PM

              On our side of the pond, the latter drink is usually referred to as a "Slow Comfortable Screw Up Against the Wall" (sloe gin, Southern Comfort, vodka, orange juice, with a float of Galliano on top).

              Which makes me recall an incident from my first waiting job. Two stunning women (mother and daughter, it turned out) came in, and when I asked them what they'd like, the mother said "We'd like two Slow Comfortable Screws". I was taken aback, and must have hesitated a few seconds before I stammered "I don't get off until ten". They were pretty good natured, as they laughed instead of being offended. Wouldn't give me their phone number when I asked for it later, though...

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              1. re: Harters
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                dagwood RE: Harters Oct 28, 2009 12:05 PM

                How about a kamikaze? or a b-52? not to even get into the numerous sexual names (buttery nipple, anyone?). The point is, the list of potentially offensive drink names is quite long, and really not worth this amount of distress.

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                1. re: dagwood
                  jfood RE: dagwood Oct 28, 2009 01:29 PM

                  And when those names return to the headlines on a weekly basis jfood will have those on the "bad" list. So far the "fire breathing dragon" is still safe for him, but "car bombs", "twin towers", and other of this ilks should not be glorified in enjoyable pursuits.

                  Is there no shame, no empathy, no consideration any longer. Why not open a bar named "kidnapped and raped teenagers." Has all dignity been thrown out?

                  Then when society gets over that disgrace, let's start bringing back really fun drinks, like the "Slave" or the "Concentration Camp".

                  For Pete's sake have some dignity people.

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                  1. re: jfood
                    buttertart RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 02:00 PM

                    I was taken aback by the name of the drink when reading the initial posting (and am not overly sensitive otherwise) - but we have a friend who was harmed by the big bombing in Manchester in the '90s. It does seem to me that this name is insensitive as are quite a few others (I wish I hadn't even heard about the "twin towers", I was very close to the WTC when it happened). Stupid and insensitive are both forever.

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                    1. re: buttertart
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                      Harters RE: buttertart Oct 28, 2009 03:48 PM

                      The 1996 Manchester bomb is the one I mention upthread. I was on the outskirts of the city centre so not close enough to be injured (and, mercifully, there had been sufficient warning for the cops to get folk out of the immediate area) . Scary none the less.

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                      1. re: Harters
                        buttertart RE: Harters Oct 29, 2009 01:11 PM

                        Dreadful business in Mancs as well as everywhere else such things have happened. I don't get the "humor" of the drink name at all.

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                        1. re: buttertart
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                          Harters RE: buttertart Oct 29, 2009 03:10 PM

                          Ah, but you don't know us Mancs. Bomb jokes were being told all over the city within hours. Not all of them too witty but some were.

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                    2. re: jfood
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                      dagwood RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 02:18 PM

                      I completely agree with you that the names are in poor taste, But really, it doesn't deserve more than an acknowledgement that whoever came up with that name is an idiot, and then moving on with one's life. It's the name of an alcoholic beverage; an association with poor judgement should hardly be a surprise. I just don't understand the degree to which the OP seems rattled.

                      There are plenty of idiots in the world; it should hardly come as a surprise that some of them could aspire to invent and then insensitively name a cocktail.

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                      1. re: dagwood
                        jfood RE: dagwood Oct 28, 2009 03:52 PM

                        Jfood moved on from the OP as many of these threads do. But the lack of sensitivity by many others is more disturbing then the OP.

                        Like many, 9/11 was a day embedded forever. The little foods set up txt and email chains so everyone knew when the moms and dads came home. They never received that txt or email from four of their friends.

                        Others want to fight throwing away an egg or some old milk as a way to fight a cause, jfood would like to fight stupidity and insensitivity.

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                        1. re: jfood
                          Servorg RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 05:17 PM

                          Taking offense is something of a slippery slope. Individually I have no issue that we each get to make the call on what is, and isn't offensive. But when someone begins to call for a ban or restriction on someone else' right to be stupid (or insensitive) - that's when we are in much greater societal danger than when we are putting up with remarks that may be distasteful to some.

                          It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode in which Jerry goes into a Catholic Church to complain about his Dentist, Dr. Whatley and his conversion to Judaism. Jerry enters the confessional and has the following conversation with the Priest:

                          Jerry: Anyway, I wanted to talk to you about Dr. Whatley. I have a suspicion that he's converted to Judaism just for the jokes.

                          Father: And this offends you as a Jewish person.

                          Jerry: No, it offends me as a comedian.

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                          1. re: Servorg
                            jfood RE: Servorg Oct 28, 2009 05:41 PM

                            Totally disagree...taking offense is in no way a slippery slope. Taking offense to slavery, the holocaust, the Taliban, is the CORRECT thing. It is when people do NOT take offense to atrocities, that is a slippery slope. Jfood is not calling for a legal ban on these stupid and insensitive names, but if people would sign a petition and give to the bar owner telling him/her they will not enter while he has drinks endorsing a method of terrorists killing innocent women, men and children, that is public action.

                            We should be outraged by it, not to the point of taking the fetal position, but to act to stop it. Being Right is never a slippery slope, it is so simple.

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                            1. re: jfood
                              Servorg RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 06:03 PM

                              And there are plenty of people who believe eating meat is murder and that Roe v Wade is an abomination and that women wearing pants should be lashed and on and on and on and... So I think taking offense is definitely a slippery slope, on roller bearings coated in WD 40.

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                              1. re: Servorg
                                jfood RE: Servorg Oct 28, 2009 06:32 PM

                                jfood guesses that anyone who equates eating meat with slavery and the holocaust would have no issue drinking booze named a car bomb. Good luck bringing back Plessy v. Ferguson and all those really neat Jim Crowe laws.

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                                1. re: jfood
                                  Servorg RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 08:49 PM

                                  The question isn't where the distaste starts. It's where it stops once it get rolling. Equating slavery and the holocaust with naming a drink something like a "car bomb" is the very epitome of the slippery slope in action. And if we decide to set up commissions (what with all those death commission people unsure if they will have work or not depending on which way the health care bills go) on "public distaste and indignation" I have a feeling the decisions they make won't please anyone with an ounce of common sense.

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                                  1. re: jfood
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                                    danieljdwyer RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 09:35 AM

                                    I'm not suggesting the name is acceptable or appropriate, but you definitely have the wrong idea about who drinks car bombs. It's simple: people who go to raucous bars. This includes most college students. Young, progressive, socially aware, socially active folks who hit the bar at the end of the day. It was not unusual, back in 2003, for an anti-war rally to be followed by a fund raiser at a bar. Without fail, these fund raisers all had the Irish Car Bomb as a featured drink. It's also not unusual to see drinks like the red headed slut at fund raisers for things like the Equal Pay Act. Or paraquat, coat hanger, fire hose, and the like at the appropriate post rally fundraiser. Young progressives love innapropriate verbal irony.

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                                    1. re: danieljdwyer
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                                      Atahualpa RE: danieljdwyer Oct 29, 2009 10:42 AM

                                      This is very true!

                                      On another note:

                                      I once had the idea to make a purposely offensive/ironic cheese and cracker snack. It would be cheese molded to look like Christ on the cross and come on top of a flavoured cracker cross.

                                      The name: "Cheesus — It's Sacrilicious".

                                      If it was a success, a follow-up could always be the "Gouda Buddah".

                                      If only I had the money for the start-up costs.

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                                      1. re: Atahualpa
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                                        Atahualpa RE: Atahualpa Oct 29, 2009 05:08 PM

                                        I see that I've been beaten to the punch (or I stole the idea long enough ago that I don't recall doing so).

                                        http://www.poizenideas.com/cheesus/

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                                        1. re: Atahualpa
                                          linguafood RE: Atahualpa Oct 29, 2009 05:10 PM

                                          Cheeses save(s).

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                                          1. re: linguafood
                                            kattyeyes RE: linguafood Oct 29, 2009 05:49 PM

                                            LOL at both your cheesy comment and Atahualpa's, too! linguafood, I'd say especially Swiss 'cause it's HOLY. :)

                                            I might add that Irish Car Bomb CAKE is killer.

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                                            1. re: kattyeyes
                                              linguafood RE: kattyeyes Oct 29, 2009 06:03 PM

                                              Thankfully, there are people with a sense of humor on this site!

                                              I'd also mention good ol' Saint André, or Saint Nectaire, as some of my favorite saints.

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                                        2. re: Atahualpa
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                                          small h RE: Atahualpa Oct 29, 2009 06:11 PM

                                          I'm looking for investors for my holy land dairy shop, Cheeses of Nazareth. Any takers?

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                                          1. re: small h
                                            linguafood RE: small h Oct 29, 2009 06:13 PM

                                            Love it.

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                                            1. re: linguafood
                                              Servorg RE: linguafood Oct 29, 2009 06:16 PM

                                              I'm still looking to open up my convenience store empire which will span the Middle East called "Allah U Wanna"

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                                        3. re: danieljdwyer
                                          jfood RE: danieljdwyer Oct 29, 2009 11:27 AM

                                          Jfood has drawn no conclusion as to who drinks them, but your analysis has some legs. Jfood's response is, "so what?" Jfood hopes our society has a higher standard than anti-war rallyers protesting killing people from 1-4 and toasting with a weapon of destruction from 4-6. The anti-War rallyers that jfood hung out with in the 60's used different post rally libations.

                                          Young progressives should assist in putting their lips where their mouths are. If they are anti-war, they should be joining in asking bar owners not to have a weapon as a featured drink.

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                                          1. re: jfood
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                                            danieljdwyer RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 12:16 PM

                                            The bars don't pick the featured drinks for fundraisers. The organization running the fundraiser does. And we're not talking little campus organizations. The anti-war group that a certain Illinois State Senator affiliated himself with in 2002 didn't have any issue raising funds for its march on Washington through the sale of Irish car bombs.
                                            The veterans of the 60's and 70's peace protests that joined our rallies never voiced any concerns either. They were too busy downing car bombs and telling us kids how our generation was just like theirs, only hopefully we wouldn't end up selling out to voodoo economics and 80's materialism like the boomers all did.
                                            Bar owners aren't going to stop selling the drink. It tastes good, and its immensly popular. They didn't name it, and they're not going to do anything but build a reputation for bad service if they berate anyone ordering it by that name.
                                            If you want to change the name, I'm all for it, but there are a whole lot of other drink names that are as bad, if not worse.
                                            Let's start with white Russians. Less than a century ago, the eponymous White Russians initiated pogroms in which hundreds of thousands of Jewish civilians were killed. Maybe not as current as car bombs, but pretty damned awful. Close to the level of a Holocaust or Nazi related name. There's even an alternate name for the drink already: the Caucasian. So, why not join in asking bar owners not to have a genocidal political party as a drink?

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                                            1. re: danieljdwyer
                                              jfood RE: danieljdwyer Oct 29, 2009 01:16 PM

                                              White Russian added to the List.

                                              And wrt any political fund raiser. Jfood would firmly believe that when he worked in the US Senate and he would have walked into his AA's office and made this point, two phone calls later those drinks would have been off the approved drink list.

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                                              1. re: jfood
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                                                danieljdwyer RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 02:02 PM

                                                Unfortunately, no one in the US Senate would have anything to do with our protests back then. Chafey, Kennedy, and Leahy's offices were the only ones that would even return phone calls. Most of them were organized by college professors, and most of those are just aged young progressives.
                                                Speaking of college professors, there is a weather website called Weather Underground. If naming a drink after a weapon mainly associated with terrorism is bad, naming a weather website after a terrorist group is at least worth mentioning.

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                                                1. re: danieljdwyer
                                                  jfood RE: danieljdwyer Oct 29, 2009 02:07 PM

                                                  Which "underground" do you refer to?

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                                                  1. re: jfood
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                                                    danieljdwyer RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 03:49 PM

                                                    The one named after a line in Subterranean Homesick Blues. The one that was all over the news last year because a former member, Bill Ayers, was a neighbor of a presidential candidate. The one that tried to terrorize the US into ending the war in Vietnam.

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                                                    1. re: danieljdwyer
                                                      jfood RE: danieljdwyer Oct 29, 2009 04:06 PM

                                                      Twas the Weathermen, not the Wather Underground. Sorta like not liking the Velvet Underground.

                                                      Can't get there with proximity.

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                                                      1. re: jfood
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                                                        danieljdwyer RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 04:33 PM

                                                        The group changed their name to the Weather Underground Organization, Weather underground for short, in 1970, after the Greenwich Village Townhouse explosion that killed three of their members forced them to go on the run, or "underground". The weather service is very open about having named themselves after the terrorist group.

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                                                        1. re: danieljdwyer
                                                          jfood RE: danieljdwyer Oct 29, 2009 05:03 PM

                                                          jfood is glad he uses weather.com and weatherbug

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                                    2. re: jfood
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                                      dagwood RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 06:05 PM

                                      I don't think I've ever been in a bar that doesn't make a car bomb. It's a pretty standard drink.

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                                      1. re: dagwood
                                        jfood RE: dagwood Oct 28, 2009 06:34 PM

                                        Aw heck Dagwood, what's the problem with dem drinkin' at a different fountain? Yeah that's a great rationale, everyone is doing it.

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                                        1. re: jfood
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                                          dagwood RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 06:42 PM

                                          I think you may need to revisit my post, specifically in regards to yours, in which you state some names should be "brought back". My point was they never left. I also specifically said they were offensive.

                                          The way to educate somebody on insensitivity is not through petitions. It is through conversations. It is through pointing out to a bartender or to a patron why his choice in beverage may be offensive to some. Not by stomping one's feet and throwing a fit. Rather, by causing someone to reflect on what another's situation may be.

                                          Perhaps jfood should start questioning his local watering holes on whether or not they make car bombs. I would guess the list of establishments you frequent would shrink considerably.

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                                          1. re: dagwood
                                            jfood RE: dagwood Oct 28, 2009 06:56 PM

                                            D

                                            You are absolutely correct in your position above. Apologies extended.

                                            To your para 2...Jfood is not trying to educate throug petition. He is trying to use market theory to show a seller that the demand curve is heading south with the petition. He is usingthese boards as the education as he stated in his post below.

                                            To your para 3...jfood is one of the few people in the world who actually takes seriously the term "watering hole". That is all he drinks. Well he may have a root beer once in a while. But you know, in fairness to your question he will begin to ask the restaurants he goes to. He is an extreme data gatherer and is always looking for a new project.

                                            Peace and to educating the stupid. :-)

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                                            1. re: jfood
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                                              dagwood RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 08:09 PM

                                              jfood, you are a scholar and a gentleman.

                                              my apologies extended as well, for poor communication and ruffled feathers.

                                              (and for what it's worth, I'm strictly a whiskey sour girl :)

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                                      2. re: jfood
                                        pikawicca RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 06:04 PM

                                        Our culture has become so coarsened, I'm reminded of "A Clockwork Orange." (I will not entertain you with the typo of the movie title that I caught before posting.) The horrible story of the Richmond, CA, gang rape is a case in point. We don't as a society, seem to be offended by culinary excess, offensive cocktail names, or much of anything. Most disturbing.

                                        It's difficult to have a healthy food culture if everything is going to hell outside the kitchen.

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                                        1. re: pikawicca
                                          linguafood RE: pikawicca Oct 29, 2009 06:08 PM

                                          Interesting that the supposed downfall of 'our culture' has been bemoaned since ancient Greece. Things sure have been going downhill for a looooong time.

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                                          1. re: linguafood
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                                            small h RE: linguafood Oct 29, 2009 06:10 PM

                                            And yet we haven't hit bottom yet. Maybe tomorrow!

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                                            1. re: small h
                                              linguafood RE: small h Oct 29, 2009 06:11 PM

                                              At the latest, to be sure '-)

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                                            2. re: linguafood
                                              pikawicca RE: linguafood Oct 29, 2009 06:17 PM

                                              I am not speaking of "western culture'" rather of American culture.

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                                      3. re: jfood
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                                        dagwood RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 06:01 PM

                                        I understand all too well the pain of that day. A woman I know lost her husband, and friends of my brother lost their father.

                                        I applaud your effort to fight stupidity and insensitivity. I only think that there are more effective ways to do so than to get oneself rattled about the name of the drink. I spent some time in the south, and you can bet there are bars down there (not to malign the south, which I love), probably certain bartenders moreso than the establishment but who knows, who have disgustingly racist names for their drinks. Much more offensive than "slave" or "concentration camp".

                                        As a woman, I've heard horrificly offensive mysogynist names for drinks, things that I won't repeat.

                                        My point is, these drinks are often named for shock value, to make somebody laugh in that "I can't believe you just said that!" kind of way. Do I find them stupid and offensive? Yes, I do. But I also think that fighting insensitivity is a battle more effectively waged on other fronts.

                                        That said, I really don't find much here to be insensitive. I haven't seen anyone applauding the name of the drink. I think the general feeling is that the OP is making too much of a big deal over it. And with that sentiment I have to agree.

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                                        1. re: dagwood
                                          jfood RE: dagwood Oct 28, 2009 06:41 PM

                                          jfood ain't rattled at all, just ask the little jfoods or the other side of certain negotiations.

                                          But the people onthese boards are food lovers, restaurant lovers, workers in "The Biz." If jfood can convince one or two of them to go to work over the next few days and tell their boss that he should reconsider this drink then jfood may start a trend.

                                          About forty years ago noone ever heard of a walk-a-thon. A few buddies got together with that stupid 23 mile idea. And jfood now has the missing nail on his pinkie toe to prove he put his feet where his mouth was.

                                          One step at a time daggie. It all starts with one step.

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                                          1. re: jfood
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                                            soupkitten RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 09:44 PM

                                            Jfood, if we can all just take a big deep breath here-- this is a case of much ado about nothing. yes of course the holocaust and the taliban and pre-civil war slavery in the u.s. are serious and terrible historical events and the tragedy touches us all. but the irish car bomb is the *name* of a drink. a popular (especially among young 20-somes) drink which predated 9/11and many of the current events you refer to. i don't wish to antagonize anyone with my post or to diminish tragic events. i just feel that people are working themselves up unnecessarily over barroom black-humor which may not translate well to some daylit and sober sensibilities.

                                            first off, the *original* name of this drink, which you'll hear irish expats call it, is actually much more visceral and potentially offensive, so "irish car bomb" is very much toned down, and has been considerably sanitized *already* for our consumption--the etymology of the name is now a descriptor and mnemonic trigger of what's in the drink, nothing more--there is no purpose of inciting terror and mass murder.

                                            it's like the "slow comfortable screw" example above, which tells both the drinker and the tender that the ingredients of the cocktail are sloe gin and southern comfort, added to a "screwdriver" (orange juice and vodka)-- the titillating name is evidently fun for some folks to say when they order this very sweet libation. you don't hear people ask for "a screwdriver with a shot of sloe gin and southern comfort added, and while you're at it can i get a float of galliano on top of the whole thing" (now it's a slow comfortable screw "up against the wall"-- the galliano bottle, being such a tall bottle, is nearly always by itself, against the wall, see?)

                                            okay so the irish car bomb is a bomb shot. bomb shots are a sub-classification of shot drinks, in which a small amount of hard alcohol, typically in a 1 oz or 1.5 oz shot glass, is dropped (glass and all) into a larger glass partially full of mixer, beer or other chaser-type stuff (sans ice). the drinker then chugs the whole shebang in one go. it's a type of drink that's not particularly "dignified"--you usually wind up with foam on the tip of your nose and a giggle fit. like any other round of prepared mixed shots, it's likely to be a quick round on the way to the concert, or to get a bachelor party started off on the right (or wrong) foot quickly. . .

                                            so the names of bomb shots often contain the word "bomb" in the same way that tiki drinks often contain words that evoke tropical or "exotic" locations. a "jager bomb," for example, is a shot of jagermeister dropped into a glass of red bull (or other energy drink). an "obama" is a shot of bacardi o (orange-flavored rum), dropped into a glass of red bull with a splash of orange juice-- "o"(bacardi o, orange juice) + "bomb" + "a"="obama," get it? the catchy name is primary, the mnemonic for the ingredients is helpful all around, the connection to current events is tenuous at best. . .

                                            so the "irish car bomb" is a shot of jameson's (or another irish whiskey) and baileys *irish* cream, dropped into a partial pint of guinness. the 3 elements are all "irish", the "bomb" comes from the type of drink it is. . . the "car" just completes the memorable name, and perhaps warns the drinker of possible catastrophic events to come, should s/he imbibe too many "car bombs".

                                            like a lot of drink culture, there is certainly an element of the bawdy, forbidden and profane in the name of this drink, similar to "sex on the beach" or "bloody mary" or "the flaming asshole" or other named cocktails. . . but it's important not to overanalyze it all to death. btw the original name for this drink was the "belfast nail bomb." yeah. pretty much if you're not irish or expat irish, you might not want to use that name. irish folks seem to think it's hilarious-- but it makes me cringe and i much prefer the much sanitized "irish car bomb." of course it refers to tragic events. like much of drink culture, the point is not to dwell on tragedy.

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                                            1. re: soupkitten
                                              g
                                              givemecarbs RE: soupkitten Oct 29, 2009 01:14 AM

                                              Well said soupkitten.

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                                              1. re: soupkitten
                                                buttertart RE: soupkitten Oct 29, 2009 06:17 AM

                                                Is this drink served as such in Ireland?

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                                                1. re: buttertart
                                                  buttertart RE: buttertart Oct 29, 2009 01:10 PM

                                                  To answer myself, it would seem not. Invented in CT - and people report having been tossed out of bars in Ireland upon ordering it. What a surprise...

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                                                2. re: soupkitten
                                                  jfood RE: soupkitten Oct 29, 2009 06:25 AM

                                                  Soupy,

                                                  Thank you very much for the historical perspective. As you know jfood loves data. And Jfood does not feel as strongly about the use of the word guillotine, bayonet, firepit or other forms of historical destruction. And yes he downed his fair share of Kamikazes in college, but even that term borders on derogatory.

                                                  But we live in a world where we are better than glorifying the use of terror while partaking in libations. And let’s look carefully at your explanation. If this were to describe a drink based on Irish ingredients call it an Irish Bomb, with a shot of Pernod a French bomb, some Ouzo a Greek bomb. But no, it took the description one step further and called it a weapon of current destruction, a Car Bomb. Just yesterday numerous innocent people died because of an enormous car bomb. Twelve hours later, Jfood is sure that Yankee and Phillies fans, well maybe only Phillies fans last night, sat at a bar in South Philly and ordered a Car Bomb. That is just wrong.

                                                  There are many words that have historical perspective and explanation. As a society we have evolved with sensitivities to our diversity and have removed them from mainstream conversation. Jfood feels that the use of a word that may put an idea into some idiot terrorist cell in the US and plant some car bomb in the US. The papers are filled with terror cells being broken in our own country. Glorifying the method of what Jfood believes will, unfortunately, garner the headlines for years to come is an affront to dignity and should be reconsidered by all bar owners.

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                                                  1. re: jfood
                                                    s
                                                    soupkitten RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 12:39 PM

                                                    why on earth would you assume that the drinker is "glorifying" brutality?

                                                    a great many people who consume irish car bombs are irish expats who emigrated *because* of the violence in ireland. they certainly know terror and mass-murder firsthand. ***and they order rounds of this shot when they get together, to mark special occasions and anniversaries, st. patty's, and large rounds go out at wakes*** the assumption that just because the name of a drink refers to historical events that consuming this drink is done to "glorify" the aggressor rather than to simply commemorate the event or eulogize the victims is way. off. base.

                                                    of course there is a big ugly mess behind the name of this cocktail. the problem is that it isn't the big ugly mess you think it is. this drink has nothing to do with current events (other than terror and mayhem are the same no matter where and to whom it happens)-- but it commemorates an entirely different historical period. the argument to get rid of this cocktail, or rename it "fuzzy pink bunny bomb" or some such will go over in some areas exactly like a "no irish allowed" sign on the door of the bar. some folks will see it as a cultural attack, and ask where the outrage was 30 or 40 years ago, when it was their own families being killed.

                                                    the fact that a 65 yr old irish expat from belfast and a 22 yr old sorority woman can sit side by side and toast their irish car bombs together and have it be simultaneously meaningful and meaningless is what pub culture and drink culture is essentially about. you go lightly over serious subjects. you don't discuss religion and politics. sleeping dogs and sleeping babies are let alone. there is the naive assumption, shattered at dawn's light, that we're all good people, out to have a good time.

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                                                    1. re: soupkitten
                                                      jfood RE: soupkitten Oct 29, 2009 01:33 PM

                                                      Always a pleasure conversing with you.

                                                      Here is where jfood would come out on this one.

                                                      Why is it OK for black comedians to use the "N" word in public? Why is it OK for Jewish comedians to use the "K" word? It is a free pass because they are a member of that group. Jfood never bought into that theory.

                                                      And you paint a wonderful picture in your example. Kudos to you. The idea that the a 65 yr old and a 22 yr old would sit and toast to their families lost on both sides of the battles is a poignant scene. But the idea that they would use a drink named after the device that first killed their family and which they need to drink to commemorate is disturbing. Reminds jfood of a scene from a movie, the names of which escapes him, with enemies meeting during the night and then shaking hands, returning to the troops and shooting at dawn.

                                                      Maybe those two need the "shock value" of the name to bring to the forefront the true events that you describe that they gloss over in your last paragraph. The terror will never stop on it's own, it must be discussed. Jfood will have to ponder that one.

                                                      But to your penultimate paragraph. Jfood totally disagrees that the elimination of, or the name change of, the drink at a bar is similar to "No Irish Allowe". Jfood does not even see dots to connect on that one. ANd where were people 30-40 years ago. Jfood remembers major efforts to bring the sides to the table. He remembers pictures on the front page of the NY Times when Sinn Fein (sic) agreed to meet. Efforts were made. Were they successful? Not to those who lost loved ones.

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                                                      1. re: jfood
                                                        d
                                                        dagwood RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 02:28 PM

                                                        jfood, it's not that they get a "free pass", it's that are able to reclaim some of the power the word holds by making it their own. I'm not saying I support it, but I do understand the reason behind it.

                                                        And now I'm shutting up because I said my peace last night. :)

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                                                        1. re: dagwood
                                                          jfood RE: dagwood Oct 29, 2009 02:49 PM

                                                          nighty night. jfood running out of gas on this one as well. the smell of roasted chicken, some bajed potatoes, a nice salad and a big glass of water awaits him after one more conference call.

                                                          peace

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                                                        2. re: jfood
                                                          f
                                                          fern RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 06:01 PM

                                                          jfood, that movie is probably Joyeux Noel. Very moving.

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                                                        3. re: soupkitten
                                                          cuccubear RE: soupkitten Oct 29, 2009 01:34 PM

                                                          So if I’m a bartender marketing a very tasty drink called a “Pickaninny” or a “Treblinka Martini” or a “Sand Creek Massacre” I should tell people to “get over it” and not expect any backlash; three more shock value beverages soon to be part of the vernacular? I don’t think so.

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                                                      2. re: soupkitten
                                                        invinotheresverde RE: soupkitten Oct 29, 2009 01:41 PM

                                                        "(now it's a slow comfortable screw "up against the wall"-- the galliano bottle, being such a tall bottle, is nearly always by itself, against the wall, see?) "

                                                        I always thought the "wall" was due to Galliano being in a Harveywallbanger?

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                                                    2. re: dagwood
                                                      Scargod RE: dagwood Oct 29, 2009 07:12 AM

                                                      I ally myself with jfood on this one, pretty much. I hope that is OK with jfood,
                                                      I find my temperature rising as I read this thread. I think many are insensitive.

                                                      I am reminded of my SO saying that she didn't want to hear about my potty-mouthed friends and their high-schoolish, shock value, sexual humor. She doesn't understand why I don't find it more distasteful and unnecessary as she does. This drink naming is similar. I find the ones that relate to death and destruction unacceptable and revolting; in a different category and league from the drink with sexual double entendres.

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                                                      1. re: Scargod
                                                        Servorg RE: Scargod Oct 29, 2009 07:19 AM

                                                        Just took a quick look at an online drinks recipe site and found this single grouping (with one brief search) giving some scale to the fight that you and jfood have on your hands with this issue: (better get started on the campaign as soon as possible)

                                                        Atomic Bomb
                                                        Atomic Cherries
                                                        Atomic Fireball
                                                        Atomic Green
                                                        Atomic Jager Bomb
                                                        Atomic Lokade
                                                        Atomic Orange Cream
                                                        Atomic Plum
                                                        Atomic Submarine
                                                        Atomic Uber-Charge
                                                        Atomic Watermelon
                                                        The Atomic Fireball

                                                        ADD:

                                                        1964 Car Bomb
                                                        A-Bomb
                                                        A-Town Bomb
                                                        Absinthe Bomb
                                                        Absolut Pineapple Bomb Punch
                                                        Acid Bomb
                                                        Adam Bomb
                                                        Apple Bomb
                                                        Arctic Bomba
                                                        Ario Bomb
                                                        Astro Bomb
                                                        Atom Bomb
                                                        Atomic Bomb
                                                        Atomic Jager Bomb
                                                        AutoBahn Bomb
                                                        Azza Bomb
                                                        B.B. Bomb
                                                        Banana Bomber
                                                        Bangkok Bomb
                                                        Bazooka Bomber
                                                        Becky's Bomber
                                                        Beeta Bomb
                                                        Belfast Bomb
                                                        Belfast Bomber
                                                        Belfast Carbomb
                                                        Berry Bomb
                                                        Bird Bomb
                                                        Black Cherry Fizz Bomb
                                                        Blonde Bombshell
                                                        Blue Bomb
                                                        Blue Bomber
                                                        Blue Bombsicle
                                                        Blue Pucker Bomb
                                                        Bomb Cocktail
                                                        Bomb on Bus
                                                        Bomb Pop
                                                        Bomb Pop
                                                        Bomba de Calvillo
                                                        Bombay Bellini
                                                        Bombay Cocktail
                                                        Bombay Cosmo
                                                        Bombay Punch
                                                        Bombay Safari
                                                        Bombay Sling
                                                        Bombeirinho
                                                        Bomber
                                                        Bombpop
                                                        Brown Bomber
                                                        Brownie Bomber
                                                        Bubble Bomb
                                                        Bud Bomb Breakfast
                                                        Burgundy Bomb
                                                        Butterscotch Bomb
                                                        Buzz Bomb
                                                        Cabo Bomb
                                                        Canadian Car Bomb
                                                        Captain's Bomb
                                                        Car Bomb
                                                        Carbomb
                                                        Cherry Bomb
                                                        Cherry Bomb
                                                        Cherry Bomb #2
                                                        Cherry Bomb #3
                                                        Cherry Bomb #4
                                                        Cherry Bomb #5
                                                        Cherry Bomb #6
                                                        Cherry Bomb #7
                                                        Cherry Bomb #8
                                                        Cherry Bomb #9
                                                        Cherry Bomb Shot
                                                        Cherry Bomb Shot #2
                                                        Cherry Bomber
                                                        Cherry Mash (or Cherry Bomb)
                                                        Chicken Bomb
                                                        Chocolate Bomb
                                                        Chocolate Cherry Bomb
                                                        Chocolate Covered Cherry Bomb
                                                        Christie's on the Lake Bomb
                                                        Christmas Ale Bomb
                                                        Chucks Irish Bomb
                                                        Cranberry Bomber
                                                        Cream Bomb
                                                        Crowning the 7 Captains of Bombay
                                                        Cubbie Bomb and/or Sox Bomb
                                                        Dan-O-Bomb
                                                        Danger Bomb
                                                        Depth Bomb
                                                        Diarrhea Bomb
                                                        Dirty Bomb
                                                        Dive Bomb
                                                        Dive Bomber
                                                        Dixie Car Bomb
                                                        Dutch Bomb
                                                        El Original Bomba
                                                        Fire Bomb
                                                        Firebomb
                                                        Flaming Jagerbomb
                                                        Flaming JT Bomber
                                                        Fuzzy Pissbomb
                                                        G Bomb

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                                                        1. re: Servorg
                                                          jfood RE: Servorg Oct 29, 2009 11:38 AM

                                                          Nah...not too bad. Nice list Serv...thx

                                                          On your list, the ones that give jfood heartburn are only

                                                          1964 Car Bomb
                                                          AutoBahn Bomb
                                                          Bazooka Bomber
                                                          Belfast Bomb
                                                          Belfast Bomber
                                                          Bomb on Bus
                                                          Canadian Car Bomb
                                                          Car Bomb
                                                          Carbomb
                                                          Dirty Bomb
                                                          Dixie Car Bomb

                                                          Really like the visual of Fuzzy Pissbomb. Guess that follows the Diarrhea Bomb

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                                                          1. re: jfood
                                                            linguafood RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 11:49 AM

                                                            Two drinks I would never order. Then again, I'm not a juvenile frat boy.

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                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                              jfood RE: linguafood Oct 29, 2009 01:21 PM

                                                              jfood neither is, nor ever was a frat boy. working three jobs to pay for college\, volunteering, student organizations and working in Congress kept him pretty busy

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                                                        2. re: Scargod
                                                          jfood RE: Scargod Oct 29, 2009 07:21 AM

                                                          welcome

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                                                        3. re: dagwood
                                                          cuccubear RE: dagwood Oct 29, 2009 10:42 AM

                                                          Isn’t that “shock value” one of the problems we face? The more you do things for shock value, the less shocking and more normalized they become. I’m no prude. I’ve said rude and shocking things in my life, but I’ve always understood the meaning of propriety. When the events of our time become trivialized through the naming of a drink, a band or whatever, reality will soon get swept under the rug.

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                                                          1. re: cuccubear
                                                            jfood RE: cuccubear Oct 29, 2009 11:28 AM

                                                            Add another name to the voice of reason and sensibility.

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                                                        4. re: jfood
                                                          im_nomad RE: jfood Oct 28, 2009 07:48 PM

                                                          "others want to fight throwing away an egg or some old milk".... whoa, why the dig jfood ?

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                                                          1. re: im_nomad
                                                            jfood RE: im_nomad Oct 29, 2009 03:55 AM

                                                            no dig at all im....everyone has a cause, something that bothers them. Some do not approve of jfood's old egg and milk status. nothing more intended.

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                                                            1. re: jfood
                                                              Sam Fujisaka RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 07:28 AM

                                                              Save your old eggs ... to throw at the stupid and insensitive.

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                                                              1. re: Sam Fujisaka
                                                                kattyeyes RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 29, 2009 06:00 PM

                                                                Well said, Sam. TRICK OR TREAT!

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                                                                1. re: kattyeyes
                                                                  c oliver RE: kattyeyes Oct 29, 2009 06:08 PM

                                                                  So are you saying that Irish Car Bomb anything IS or IS NOT "stupid and insensitive"?

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                                                                  1. re: c oliver
                                                                    kattyeyes RE: c oliver Oct 29, 2009 06:19 PM

                                                                    I'm saying I thought it was funny for Sam to suggest saving old eggs to throw at the stupid and insensitive.

                                                                    I do NOT think that Irish Car Bomb cake or the shot is stupid or insensitive.

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                                                3. d
                                                  dagwood RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 01:58 PM

                                                  With all due respect, I think it's things like this that give liberals a bad name.

                                                  Seriously, there are all sorts of worthy causes to which one can dedicate oneself that can cause real change in the lives of others. Protesting the name of a drink will not. Period.

                                                  1 Reply
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                                                  1. re: dagwood
                                                    c
                                                    Cachetes RE: dagwood Oct 27, 2009 02:24 PM

                                                    Not to point out the obvious, but protesting the name of a drink called a "car bomb" would, in this age of scare-mongering about terror, more likely be a cause of conservatives.

                                                    ETA: though in rethinking it, the OP's emphasis on "instrument of pain" I guess does evoke some liberal causes.

                                                    In any case, I agree, much better causes exist.

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                                                  2. podunkboy RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 02:04 PM

                                                    I just order myself a beer, and leave the insensitive and/or cutesy drink names for other people to ponder. Not that there aren't some offensively-named beers, but it's not the beer's fault what name it's given.

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                                                    1. jfood RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 05:26 PM

                                                      it was painful to read your post. the idea that seeing the name of a drink in a bar could have such an effect on you is distressing. but if reading about the car bomb as the name makes jfood believe you must be living a very sheltered life, the front page of the newspaper and the 7pm news is worse every day. The drink car bomb hasn't killed anyone. Yes, it is totally stupid on the part of this bar and other bars to have this as the name of a drink, totally insensitive, totally without regard to right and wrong and totally disgusting. it is similar to having side but side smoking shots called Twin Towers. Anyone who condones such dispicable naming should also be ashamed of their total lack of respect for life.

                                                      But to your question. No it should not have a profound effect on your outlook. it is the name of a stupid drink thought up by stupid people and sold by stupid whatevers. As they say, do not let the a-holes get you down. And please get over this and move on with your life.

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                                                      1. im_nomad RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 05:43 PM

                                                        I think i've had a BJ at the shooter bar before (actually that would probably be funnier if I wasn't a gal ).

                                                        I've also had more than my share of B-52's. etc.

                                                        I wonder if, to some degree, such things started as a form of gallows humour. Maybe sometimes there's just things in life that are so abnormal, that this is one way to normalize it, i.e. naming a drink after it.

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                                                        1. Servorg RE: wew Oct 27, 2009 05:48 PM

                                                          Black humor and the Irish have a long, understandable and proud history. The name of this drink (which I wasn't aware of until now) doesn't surprise me in the least. Probably much safer to order one of these in a Dublin pub than to ask for a "Black & Tan."

                                                          2 Replies
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                                                          1. re: Servorg
                                                            k
                                                            KTinNYC RE: Servorg Oct 27, 2009 07:38 PM

                                                            I'm pretty certain the Car Bomb was not created in Ireland, wikipedia backs this up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Ca...

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                                                            1. re: KTinNYC
                                                              Servorg RE: KTinNYC Oct 28, 2009 08:56 AM

                                                              Fair enough. But the larger point is that when a group of people like the Irish or the Israelis go through extraordinarily tough times the penchant for "black humor" is heightened. What many would find in so called bad taste is a way to handle the pressure and danger that exists all around them.

                                                              Someone in Israel noted in their blog that as they were driving trough Jeruselem in a cab during the first Gulf war they heard the radio announcers giving advice about what to do if Scud missiles, possibly armed with chemical warheads, starting falling in their neighborhood. Some of the instructions included the following:

                                                              “If you’re told to take shelter, that means immediately. Do not stop for an espresso at Aroma or an almond croissant at Arcaffe. Immediately.” Or, “In case of an attack, you must prepare yourselves for the worst possible scenario – the cancellation of the Depeche Mode concert.” And, “If a missile falls on your neighbour’s car, run fast and maybe you’ll get his parking spot.”

                                                              So, even if the Irish didn't come up with the appellation for the "car bomb" drink, they seem to have taken it to heart in the best tradition of Irish humor.

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                                                          2. iluvcookies RE: wew Oct 28, 2009 08:27 AM

                                                            I am personally more offended by those who create and use the actual bombs than by some lame attempt at black humor on the part of a bartender.
                                                            If you happen to like the actual drink, just order a pint of Guinness and a shot of Bailey's and put them together yourself.

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                                                            1. re: iluvcookies
                                                              k
                                                              KTinNYC RE: iluvcookies Oct 28, 2009 08:36 AM

                                                              You'll need whisky as well.

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                                                              1. re: KTinNYC
                                                                iluvcookies RE: KTinNYC Oct 28, 2009 08:56 AM

                                                                Yes, whiskey too. That would help :)

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                                                                1. re: iluvcookies
                                                                  k
                                                                  KTinNYC RE: iluvcookies Oct 28, 2009 09:43 AM

                                                                  The whisky is what curdles the Bailey's. Anyone that has had to wash a round of glasses used to consume the car bomb is not likely to order the drink. It is just nasty looking.

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                                                                  1. re: KTinNYC
                                                                    invinotheresverde RE: KTinNYC Oct 28, 2009 11:35 AM

                                                                    They taste surprisingly good.

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                                                                    1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                      s
                                                                      soupkitten RE: invinotheresverde Oct 28, 2009 01:11 PM

                                                                      and you have the whole "drop the whole shot glass into a beer glass and slam the whole lot like a frat-boy" element. . . which is why the drink's been around for decades and isn't likely to go away any time soon, no matter who's got their panties in a bunch about it.

                                                                      lots of drinks have names that are memorable-- you need to remember the name while you're drinking, after all :)

                                                                      irish car bomb is the name of a drink and the op should really try to get over it and use the outrage more constructively. are all the related "bomb" type shots (jager-bomb, etc) anything to get upset about? just don't order one if it bugs you.

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                                                            2. b
                                                              blackoak RE: wew Oct 28, 2009 09:36 AM

                                                              The thing that caught me off-guard, after my initial surprise of learning this drink's name ("Really? They call it that? You're making that up. Pull the other one. I don't believe you.") is that I've had to explain to a number of people why a drink might be called an 'Irish Car Bomb' (as opposed to just a 'Car Bomb'). I don't know if it is indicative of where I'm currently living, the people I know here, alcohol use, or a combination of all three, but I've had to explain (briefly and probably very badly) about how the name relates to the Troubles.

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                                                              1. q
                                                                queencru RE: wew Oct 28, 2009 09:50 AM

                                                                There are so many inappropriate drink names that while I might think a certain name was completely tasteless, I think I'd have to be really sheltered for it to challenge my world view.

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                                                                1. c oliver RE: wew Oct 29, 2009 03:49 PM

                                                                  So many people upthread are much more articulate than I so I'll keep this short. A while back I realized that the term "food Nazi" was going to be deleted from my vocabulary. I don't want myself or anyone else to start to get desensitized to what Nazi stands for much less to use it in a humorous way. And I haven't used the term since. Reading the OP, it was a deja vu moment. To me, it's the same issue with car bombs and other similar terms. I'm not going to query every resto and bar as to all the drinks they're capable of serving. But if I pick up a list of special drinks and something like Irish Car Bomb is on it, I will ask to speak to the owner/manager and then I will leave. I consider it offensive enough. But to each his own. (I'm also going to eat old eggs - haha).

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                                                                  1. re: c oliver
                                                                    jfood RE: c oliver Oct 29, 2009 04:11 PM

                                                                    Bravo.

                                                                    Jfood will not watch Hiogan's Heroes and he stopped watching Seinfeld after his soup idiot episode.

                                                                    There is nothing, repeat nothing jfood will watch that will desensitize that word.

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                                                                    1. re: jfood
                                                                      c oliver RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 05:09 PM

                                                                      And perhaps "diminish" or "trivialize" are better words. Words matter. I'm hoping that people would be horrified and unaccepting of a drink named "Dead Baby." And how many babies have been killed by Irish car bombs?

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                                                                      1. re: c oliver
                                                                        pikawicca RE: c oliver Oct 29, 2009 06:08 PM

                                                                        Seriously, there can't really be a drink called Dead Baby.

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                                                                        1. re: pikawicca
                                                                          c oliver RE: pikawicca Oct 29, 2009 06:14 PM

                                                                          I hope not. But should Irish Car Bomb be subtitled "Many Dead Babies"?

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                                                                          1. re: c oliver
                                                                            jfood RE: c oliver Oct 29, 2009 06:15 PM

                                                                            lots of snow out there, huh?

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                                                                            1. re: jfood
                                                                              c oliver RE: jfood Oct 29, 2009 06:16 PM

                                                                              NONE here :( 60 tomorrow.

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                                                                        2. re: c oliver
                                                                          jfood RE: c oliver Oct 29, 2009 06:10 PM

                                                                          any positive integer is too many

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                                                                    2. The Chowhound Team RE: wew Oct 29, 2009 06:16 PM

                                                                      Folks, this discussion seems to be going in circles with the same people saying the same things. We're going to lock it now.

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