662457 Mon Oct 26 12:26:10 -0700 2009 33 31 Home Cooking 0 5132240 Funny, that title sounds familiar, doesn't it? Have been waiting for this with baited breath - just ordered it from Amazon and can not wait to get my mitts on it. Will report. Mon Oct 26 12:26:10 -0700 2009 13709 buttertart 1 5132343 Can you tell me why this particular volume has you so excited? Always on the lookout here. Mon Oct 26 12:54:54 -0700 2009 5132240 74762 Dual 2 5132395 Dual, now I'm very curious, too. According to her Wikipedia page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eileen_Yin-Fei_Lo she's been described as " The “Cantonese Julia Child” and the “Chinese Marcella Hazan” (New York Times) The “Chinese Alice Waters” (Food authority George Land) The “Diva of Dim Sum” (Food Arts Magazine)" ~TDQ Mon Oct 26 13:13:50 -0700 2009 5132343 12005 The Dairy Queen 1 5132512 I'm looking forward to your report. You're also a fan of Irene Kuo's book? I'd be interested to see how the two compare. Mon Oct 26 13:48:42 -0700 2009 5132240 10214 beetlebug 2 5132522 That's precisely my main interest in this (comparison w/Kuo) - and there hasn't been a comprehensive Chinese cookbook in some time. I like Ms Lo's other books as well. Mon Oct 26 13:52:13 -0700 2009 5132512 13709 buttertart 3 5133149 I've been intrigued by Kuo's book ever since I read the Tenth Muse. But I haven't had time to borrow it from the library to take closer look. Maybe I'll borrow both and do a side by side comparison. No one hold your breath though, this sounds like an after the holidays kind of project. Or, even better, a Chinese New Year project. Mon Oct 26 18:07:49 -0700 2009 5132522 10214 beetlebug 4 5133918 Indeed it would. Kuo is especially good on technique (cutting, precooking, etc.), will be very interested to see how Lo approaches the subject. The book is supposed to arrive today. Tue Oct 27 05:57:13 -0700 2009 5133149 13709 buttertart 1 5135431 Have received it. It's beautiful (have only been able to give a very perfunctory look through so far). Big and heavy - will be lugging it tp read it on my commute home tonight! Tue Oct 27 14:23:02 -0700 2009 5132240 13709 buttertart 2 5135435 *jealous* Can't wait to hear all about it! ~TDQ Tue Oct 27 14:24:10 -0700 2009 5135431 12005 The Dairy Queen 3 5137251 I have read the first few chapters, and I have to say that I am not as taken with it as I expected to be. It starts with a tour through Chinatown markets and shops, and a discussion of essential ingredients, which is useful. It then goes to basic recipes, stocks etc., again useful. The following recipes for dishes are not terrifically appealing. One calls for 64 (!) fresh water chestnuts to equal ½ cup – would equal more like 2 + cups. Cutting techniques are only perfunctorily described and given one page of small illustrations. The other beefs I have with the book are to do with the Chinese used, and would not necessarily bother or interest anyone without knowledge of the language. It is a beautifully-produced book – the red of the endpapers is absolutely glorious and the photographs interesting – but the substance so far does not equal the style. Wed Oct 28 09:00:17 -0700 2009 5135435 13709 buttertart 4 5137324 Oh how disappointing... Still that section on markets and ingredients sounds really interesting. Would you say that that section is far more useful than the similar sections from the Dunlop books? ~TDQ Wed Oct 28 09:37:17 -0700 2009 5137251 12005 The Dairy Queen 5 5137460 Not really, I am a Dunlop fan through and through. But let me get a grip on the rest of the book, it may redeem itself. Wed Oct 28 10:22:52 -0700 2009 5137324 13709 buttertart 1 5149441 I am now midway through the book and am more impressed by it than I was with the first part - the author goes into some very interesting and unusual regional recipes including some breads and dishes to go with same. The soups are particularly appealling. The techniques are not as extensively described and illustrated as in the Kuo book (and I like the tone of the Kuo book better, Ms. Lo tends a bit to the self-congratulatory), which I still think is the better introduction to the cuisine, but this is a keeper in its own right. Mon Nov 02 11:06:34 -0800 2009 5132240 13709 buttertart 2 5152046 So how would you compare the Mastering the Art of Chinese Cooking to Grace Young's The Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen and Eileen's The Chinese Kitchen? Which one do you think is more suited for a beginner? The product description on Amazon for Mastering the Art of Chinese Cooking says: "A series of lessons build skill, knowledge, and confidence as Lo guides the home cook step by step through the techniques, ingredients, and equipment that define Chinese cuisine". Which sounds like an excellent cookbook to learn from. How much of it is true and how does it compare to the other two books mentioned above? Tue Nov 03 09:17:52 -0800 2009 5149441 1121382 Roost 12 3 5152101 I haven't looked at the other two in years (I think I have the Lo and had the Young from the library). Will have a look. I have been cooking Chinese food seriously since the '80s (had to, lived in Taipei for a couple of years and there was no decent Chinese food to be had upon returning to the States) so am perhaps not the best person to assess the book as a learning tool for a complete neophyte. That being said, I find that while this book is very good, I don't think it's organized in such a way that someone with no knowledge of the cuisine would be able to pick it up and become an accomplished Chinese cook right away (a bit too scattershot, and I hate to harp, but the descriptions of technique and the whys and wherefores of same are a bit sketchy as opposed to those in the Kuo book). Tue Nov 03 09:33:03 -0800 2009 5152046 13709 buttertart 4 5173842 I have 3 Chinese cookbooks that I look at most often: Grace Young's Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen Eileen Lo's The Chinese Kitchen Fuchsia Dunlop's Land of Plenty I use the Young and the Dunlop the *most* by far. The Lo is very brilliant, and stuff comes out gorgeously, but I think Lo is deep down a restaurant cook. Her recipes are pretty damn involved, and make sense if you have sous chefs preparing your stocks and stuff like that. And some of the recipes feel awkwardly pared down from restaurant-scale stuff... Young and Dunlop are, at heart, home and family cooks. And their recipes are more elemental. I learned to cook Chinese from Young's absolute bare-minimum versions of dishes. She's got tons of technique notes, too. The Young has the same place in my heart as Hazan and Tsuji - elemental, educational, etc. The recipes are daily, worn, and stripped down enough for you to get what's encessary. The Lo is more like... you know, a restaurant cookbook from a brilliant cook. The Dunlop is incredible, too. I like all three, but would recommend them to people learning to cook Chinese in the order of: Young, Dunlop, Lo. The new Lo I glanced at in a bookstore, and the recipes seemed even more obviously geared towards restaurant cooking. Though the info seemed excellent. Wed Nov 11 14:58:34 -0800 2009 5152101 14404 Thi N. 5 5175652 I will start with Young then, thank you. :) Thu Nov 12 08:53:31 -0800 2009 5173842 1121382 Roost 12 6 5176340 I agree with a lot of Thi N.'s points (although I don't think Ms. Lo is or has been a restaurant cook). Am a bit farther through the book and remain less impressed than I expected to be. I still think that Irene Kuo's The Key to Chinese Cooking is the best single book to learn from. Thu Nov 12 12:15:17 -0800 2009 5175652 13709 buttertart 4 5294741 Buttertart, I certainly defer to you on the subject of Chinese cooking. (I have the typical American amateur cook's knowledge of the subject.) However, your remark that "there was no decent Chinese food to be had upon returning to the States" surprises me. Do you mean nowhere or just in a particular city where you lived? I'm assuming that places like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Seattle must have some pretty good Chinese cooks. They do not lose their talent when they fly across the ocean, and the regretable lack of authentic Chinese ingredients which may have existed at one time (like, the 70's) in some of these cities has certainly been overcome by now. Surely, there must be some excellent Chinese food being produced at Chinese restaurants in the United States. I don't mean to be hypercritical. You discussion of the merits of the various Chinese cookbooks is fascinating and I'll be referring to it when I buy my next Chinese cookbook! Thanks! Mon Jan 04 11:22:03 -0800 2010 5152101 22427 gfr1111 5 5294894 We returned to Berkeley and San Francisco in the early '80s. The Chinese food then available in the restaurants - even in places like The Mandarin at Ghirardelli Square - was nothing to compare to what we had been eating in Taipei. The tastes were just off (different recipes, ingredients, etc.). We were extremely fortunate in having been in Taipei at that point - top Mainland chefs who had been serving their post-1949 emigre Nationalist bosses as private chefs were branching out into opening restaurants as their employers passed on. The story is quite different now - we live in NYC and there are many places that serve excellent and authentic Chinese food of various cuisines here (so much so that my husband beefs that I don't cook Chinese as much as I used to...). Mon Jan 04 12:04:31 -0800 2010 5294741 13709 buttertart 1 5294164 It (uncharacteristically) took me until last week to get through this book - kept picking it up and putting it down. I was prepared to be thrilled - since no major general Chinese cookbook has come out in English in ages and Ms. Lo's other books are good - but found it really quite disappointing. I always slightly dogear the corners of pages with recipes I'd like to try - in this one, there are precisely 2 corners turned down, one for a chicken dish with fried basil, and one for something that doesn't appeal to me on second reading. The book ends with a recipe for a multi-part "big bowl" extravaganza with many disparate food preparations layered into a bowl and steamed, which sounds as if it would be dreadful in any but the absolutely most practiced hand. The Chinese is odd throughout - for example, some Mandarin and Cantonese pronunciations of the same words are tagged as being entirely different expressions; the English chapter title to the effect of "Vegetables are the Way" is in Chinese "Vegetables are healthy foods"; and the Ming dynasty (1368-1644) is dated to the 12th century. It's a beautiful book but needed a firmer editorial hand, preferably by someone with some background in Chinese language as well as cooking. Any number of other books serve its intended purpose better, Nina Simonds's Classic Chinese Cooking, the Wei-Chuan Chinese Cooking and Chinese Cooking II books, and Irene Kuo's magisterial The Key to Chinese Cooking prime among them. Mon Jan 04 08:18:19 -0800 2010 5132240 13709 buttertart 2 5294201 Oh how disappointing. I know what a lousy feeling it is to have such great anticipation for something, then have all those hopes go unfulfilled. Well, thank you for sharing your very thoughtful feedback on this book with us. Speaking entirely selfishly, a part of me is relieved that I won't feel it necessary to rush out and buy this book. But, of course, the fact that this book missed the mark is not really in anyone's best interest, not even mine if I take my selfish/blinders off for a moment. Do you see anyone else in the cookbook talent pool who can write the kind of major, general kind of book you are hoping for. Fuscia Dunlop, maybe? ~TDQ Mon Jan 04 08:29:00 -0800 2010 5294164 12005 The Dairy Queen 3 5294322 It's really hard to say - I'm sure FD would be capable but it's such a huge, daunting project and it seems that she is more interested in regional cuisines. The book I want her to write (please please please) is the one on Huaiyang cuisine (Yangzhou/Huai'an food, cities west of China famous for their refined food) she seemed to be possibly hinting about in her memoir. (Oh no, just noticed I wrote "baited" for "bated" breath in my initial post, how embarrassing!) Mon Jan 04 09:09:00 -0800 2010 5294201 13709 buttertart 4 5318213 isn't Yangzhou FD's current project? thought I read that someplace..... Personally, I'm still waiting for someone to write a good Zhejiang/Hangzhou cookbook (like you I spent time in Taiwan in the early 80's, wonderful Zhejiang food....) Wed Jan 13 04:16:13 -0800 2010 5294322 104728 qianning 5 5325563 I certainly hope you're right - it would be wonderful to have such a book. Fond memories of the Chu Feng Yuan and Sui Yuan - particularly the latter - in Taipei back then. Fri Jan 15 15:18:44 -0800 2010 5318213 13709 buttertart 6 5327181 seems to me i read about here working on a Yangzhou book in one of the blurbs to her recent auto-biography. Sat Jan 16 13:00:33 -0800 2010 5325563 104728 qianning 1 5294319 I have depended on my three vol of Fu Pei Me's books. (I've had them for going on thirty years, ever since my local Chinese grocer recommended them "She teach cooking on TaiWan TV). Can anyone compare these more recent books with my classic trilogy? Mon Jan 04 09:08:19 -0800 2010 5132240 79896 shallots 2 5294898 I have and love those as well, and used to watch Fu Pei Mei on Taiwan TV (and SF Chinese TV, for that matter). The Wei-Chuan books are closest to hers of the ones I've mentioned. Mon Jan 04 12:06:32 -0800 2010 5294319 13709 buttertart 3 5295502 Thank you so much, Buttertart, I've kept coming back to the Fu Pei Mei trilogy as my (far more limited than yours) tastes have evolved. And I smile at the ingredients that I now consider necessities in my cupboard that were almost ungettable back then. Mon Jan 04 15:27:35 -0800 2010 5294898 79896 shallots 4 5296143 I had to check. Smiles. I have the Wei-Chuan Cuisine vol. (the shredded carrot recipe was the main reason I bought it) and also the Wei-Chuan Snacks one. Cuisine has almost lost its binding. Mon Jan 04 19:23:16 -0800 2010 5295502 79896 shallots 5 5296882 Those are all treasures and if you have them, you are very well set. I got mine (incl Chinese Snacks, another goodie) while we were in Taiwan and they bring back fun memories of having to learn to cook again, on a 2-burner gas hot plate which was either ON very very high or off completely. How did you come across the Fu Pei Mei? I don't remember their being available in the States. There are more Wei-Chuan books on regional cuisines among other topics that are interesting but I don't find as useful (have the Taiwanese, Shanghai, and Szechuan ones). Tue Jan 05 06:53:54 -0800 2010 5296143 13709 buttertart 6 5298146 In Knoxville Tennessee, when I was in grad school, we really liked a local Chinese restaurant, one that was a hereditary spot where the kids worked nights as they worked theri way through UT grad programs. So I started trying to make the dishes I really liked at home, and we had a small, hole in the wall Oriental Grocery store. I shopped there often enough that the owner's wife started giving me hints on what to use, and she had imported the cook books. In vol one I also have her recipe for her husbands favorite cucumber dish, that I have yet to find in any other cook book anywhere. The Wei Chuans are from my living in Houston and my Japanese Grocery store there had them. Tue Jan 05 13:24:37 -0800 2010 5296882 79896 shallots 7 5298163 Oohhh! I love new things to do with cucumbers (when in season, which they aren't right now of course.) Would you mind paraphrasing for us? ~TDQ Tue Jan 05 13:29:42 -0800 2010 5298146 12005 The Dairy Queen 7 5298227 I love books that are tied up in memories. And I would also love the cucumber recipe! Tue Jan 05 13:50:32 -0800 2010 5298146 13709 buttertart