660660 Mon Oct 19 07:48:41 -0700 2009 24 29 Not About Food 0 5114030 After reading this post (http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/660562) and my personal akwardness with tipping, I would like to do a quick survey about tipping trends. How much should you give? Do you calculate before or after tax? Regional differences Montreal vs Canada vs USA. What about tipping jars, take-out, delivery? Is service better on the premise of a tip? Are you allowed not to tip/reduce the tip if the service/food was poor? To give you and idea where I'm coming from: I'm European. I had to get used to the whole tipping system. Although I understand the reasoning behind tips (waiters/resses being seriously underpaid), even after 3 years of living here I still feel I am being ripped off when I pay the bill. Taxes and tip add about 30% to the prices I saw on the menu. However I do find service better here in general than compared to Europe. I've been to a lot of places where you're lucky they serve you at all. Addressing issues with food or service in Europe only causes more aggrevation and corrections or make-goods seem seldom made. Also food substitutions and splitting the bill are uncommon. It seems service staff are trying harder to accomodate you in N-America, but all for that holy tip? (Mind you, I have had bad service here too). Mon Oct 19 07:48:41 -0700 2009 241631 estilker 1 5114061 I'll kick it off with my own answers. In general I give between 15 and 20%. On average 17% probably. Calculate before tax. Drinks $1 / drink (beer or wine), although I can never cough up $1 for pop. Tipping jars: no. Sometimes small change. But makes me feel I'm giving a ridiculous tip, so rather no tip at all. Take-out: no. Delivery: about 10-15% of the total bill. The whole tipping thing makes me feel like George Constanza (or Larry David). But I want to give a fair tip and reward good service. Mon Oct 19 07:57:31 -0700 2009 5114030 241631 estilker 1 5114349 In the US, the custom is 15%-20% of the pretax total (not including discounts) including liquor for full table service. Buffet service baseline is 10%; ditto home delivery (tip up if the delivery person has to navigate nasty weather or climb stairs, for example). Tipping jars can be ignored without guilt or shame, but if you are a regular customer and the staff is regular, you might benefit from a measure of generosity. Take-out depends on the establishment: generally, tipping is not required at places that revolve around take out (like pizza, ethnic eateries), but if it's a fine dining establishment where a server who is making less than minimum wage is given the duty to deal with take-out orders and has them added to his/her withholding base for tax purposes, then tipping like buffet service is becoming advocated. Mon Oct 19 09:38:12 -0700 2009 5114030 13819 Karl S 1 5114366 I calculate on the total bill (inc tax, booze). I am in Virginia. I start at 20% and round up to the nearest "5" or "0" unless something went seriously wrong. If something went exceptionally right or I have been comped or the food is an exceptional value (like Mexican $3.99/lunch) I'll bump it up to where I think it should be. Mon Oct 19 09:43:06 -0700 2009 5114030 11990 Janet from Richmond 1 5114384 Jfood in CT. He does not want to perform a search and destroy on the pre- or post-tax amount. He looks at the total and tips 15-20%. Since the jfoods do not drink liquor or wine there is no discussion on the proper tipping on the wine (Others will get into that sandbox). He also does not eat at buffets but agrees with Karl S. on the range. Tip jars are an annoyance. If jfood is inclined he may place his change in it but usually he ignores it. Take-away. If it is one of his usual places he will leave a tip. Chinese take-away, never leave a tip. Mon Oct 19 09:49:01 -0700 2009 5114030 11290 jfood 2 5116386 j, Dead horse beating time, I guess: Just curious........... would take-away at a $$ - $$$ Chinese restaurant be 'no' if it were a place you frequented? Not sure I get the reason for singling it out. How's it different from Italian, French, Thai at the same $ level? Mon Oct 19 23:30:53 -0700 2009 5114384 11405 Midlife 3 5116465 I don't know about jfood, but the issue is whether it's a waiter vs a cashier. Typically, a take-out oriented Chinese restaurant (or pizzeria or other places like that) have cashiers who manage take-out orders. They are paid minimum wage; they don't get tipped. Tue Oct 20 02:22:44 -0700 2009 5116386 13819 Karl S 3 5116539 100% of the Chinese take-aways that jfood has gone to have the order taken by the cashier, packed in the kitchen and either brought to the cashier for pick-up or the cashier goes to the kitchen to pick up the bag. They have the process down to a science, no server intervention. And the Chines in Jfood's town are not inexpensive, $20 entrees. Likewise, one of the tell-tale signs are where you pick up the bag, normally at the cashier, not at the bar. The process is more in line with a pizzeria (and yes Italian, Thai, Pakistani, etc. included) than with a sit-down restaurant. And jfood is a frequenter at theplaces intown so that does not change the general take-away process at these places. Hope that helps Tue Oct 20 04:49:54 -0700 2009 5116386 11290 jfood 4 5117759 I'm getting your rationale, but I really don't see how your Chinese scenario is all that different from take-away at any other type of sit-down restaurant. When you call in, your order is taken by a cashier or someone who doubles as a take-away order-taker. You pick the order up at the cashier in every sit-down place I've ever done take-away with (regardless of price level or degree of 'take-away-ness'). At the Chinese place I take-away from, the entrees are $10-$18 and it is a regular sit-down restaurant that also does take-away (seems to go with Chinese, Italian (OR lots more cuisines, moreso if you're in a more urban environment). The 'cashier' is often also a server (though sometimes a host/ess). SOMEONE is taking the order, making sure it's correct and packed properly. In my mind whoever that is is my 'server' of that meal. Tip is not the same as for full sit-down service, but ZERO just doesn't feel right. At our local pizza take-away place they have 4 tables and their business is probably 80% take-away. These guys work hard and you're right in their faces at the counter. I throw a buck in the jar just to show my appreciation for the good job they do. From what I've been told, actual kitchen staff rarely sees tip money in the majority of restaurants of any kind. There's a Mexican counter-order/sit down local chain here where they ring a bell whenever someone leaves a tip. The whole kitchen staff yells 'Gracias'. Kinda nice, I think. My $.02. and more, I guess...... Tue Oct 20 12:35:45 -0700 2009 5116539 11405 Midlife 5 5117779 There is a difference in jfood's experience and that in your paragraph 1. Here is the difference. In the local haunts where jfood does takeaway there is no cashier. When he calls it is the bartender who takes the order. And it is the bartender that goes to the kitchen and then packs everything and then he rings and takes care of the bill. Adn ifthe food is not ready he pours a glass of water and a bowl of olives. Hope that helps. Tue Oct 20 12:42:45 -0700 2009 5117759 11290 jfood 6 5117936 Got it. I live in a suburban area so it's a different set up in many of our restaurants. BTW, when I say 'cashier', I don't mean that you bring your bill and CC to a desk to pay, but they usually have that 'station' if they do enough take-out for it to be helpful. In between there are restaurants that have a host stand which is attached to a small counter where they handle take-away orders. Higher-end restaurants have a host stand but you do usually pick up a take-away order at the bar. I just never perceived that the bartender is doing anything more for you than the person at the other counters....... though the water and olives could turn me around. At my local Italian resto I've had them bring me a glass of wine if I have to wait unusually long for an order I called in. I guess I just don't get the 'never' part. All's good. Tue Oct 20 13:30:23 -0700 2009 5117779 11405 Midlife 1 5115388 Yes, tipping can sometimes be confusing. I remember I also had a hard time grasping tipping concepts in Europe. I think Karl S gave a pretty good outline of tipping in the States. In general, 15-20% pre-tax is acceptable, though I find that in NYC many have a minimum base tip of 20%. However, I've had Chinese people tell me that in Chinatown, standard tip is 10% among Chinese. Personally I can't do this and generally tip a lot more than 20% as the food is very inexpensive to begin with. It is also common to leave a minimum tip of $1 for a sit-down meal at a restaurant or diner, even if you ordered a $1.99 breakfast special. If you find the service poor, it is common for people to reduce the tip to about 10%. Only if service is absolutely horrendous do people leave no tip at all. If the food is poor, it isn't nice to punish the waitstaff as the waitstaff has nothing to do with cooking the food. I would tip the regular 15-20%. It definitely can seem difficult if you're coming from a place where people don't tip to pay an extra 30% of the menu prices. But please keep in mind that some servers don't make minimum wage and the majority of the income is from tips. Many servers don't have healthcare as well. Mon Oct 19 15:10:28 -0700 2009 5114030 10763 Miss Needle 2 5115464 Yes, the 20% baseline has long obtained in the lower half of Manhattan and thence spread to other fine dining meccas in the country. But in much of the country, and many parts of urban areas, it would be on the high end of customary. Mon Oct 19 15:36:14 -0700 2009 5115388 13819 Karl S 1 5115936 Rethink: you aren't really "giving" you're paying. It is just a different charging system. 20% Mon Oct 19 18:56:20 -0700 2009 5114030 36661 Sam Fujisaka 1 5116543 Don't know if this information will help you, but in Quebec (you are in Montreal, non?) the min wage for a server is $8 (vs $9 regular min wage). Tue Oct 20 04:53:12 -0700 2009 5114030 139219 Sooeygun 1 5117117 Thanks all! Seems my personal tipping behavior is close to the standard. I too experienced the cashier vs waiter. Went to get pizza in a more upscale pizza place in Little Italy, Montreal. I had to wait for my pizza at the swanky bar where they were preparing cocktails. My total bill was already $50 for two 10" pizzas, an arancino ball and a polpete meatball. I did not tip. As for paying vs tipping. Must be my continental mindset, but a waiter is employed by a restaurant, so gets payed by that restaurant (albeit very little). In Europe, waiters get decent wages, and their wages are calculated in the price of the goods you consume. It's a shift of responsibility. Tue Oct 20 09:19:33 -0700 2009 5114030 241631 estilker 2 5117449 I've lived and worked in Asia and Latin America over the past 35 years. Although I don't eat out all that much, when and wherever I do, I tip the same - 15 to 20% - without thinking of it as "giving". I also leave tips for the maid in hotel rooms. Overall, I don't want their jobs nor their pay; and am happy to be able to share by paying what I owe them. I eat out even less on work visits to the US, but tip 20% there as a matter of course. Tue Oct 20 10:55:19 -0700 2009 5117117 36661 Sam Fujisaka 3 5117625 In the US (I can't speak for elsewhere), tipping for the housemaids is customarily a couple of dollars (it used to be one dollar not terribly long ago) per person per night, more if you are messy (and if you're not sure, you are messy). Tue Oct 20 11:50:57 -0700 2009 5117449 13819 Karl S 3 5117768 Wow! When I traveled in Asia, years ago, tipping the room staff was normal, but I really thought that had gone by the wayside, especially in the US. Don't do much traveling anymore, so I could be way behind the curve. Tue Oct 20 12:39:28 -0700 2009 5117449 11405 Midlife 1 5117852 I give 15-20% after tax. We never order a bottle of wine, just a glass so it's n/a on separate bottle tipping for us. Reduce tipping to 10% for poor service. I have left nothing or next to nothing for abhorrent service but only a handful of times in my life. I do not do tip jars. There are no tip jars at places where people are not already paid min. wage. I do not tip other min. wage workers, such as the girl selling me shoes or the guy at Walgreen's either. I don't feel at all guilty for ignoring a tip jar. I tip around 10% on delivery - the only thing we can have delivered where I live is pizza and it's very close/easy for them to get to my place (but not for me to get there with my infant). I do not tip on take-out. That's one of the reasons we get take-out, to avoid the tip. Tue Oct 20 13:02:42 -0700 2009 5114030 19518 rockandroller1 1 5117857 I think tipping in Yurp is much more complicated, and more difficult to understand for North Americans than the other way around, because there are no definitive rules, and waiters are actually professionally trained (in moderate to upscale restos, that is); they also get decent pay, not this crazy 2.83/hour b.s. Tue Oct 20 13:05:16 -0700 2009 5114030 116513 linguafood 1 5118636 As an ex-Montrealer living in Toronto, and having worked as a waiter in a past life, my take on the three is: people from Toronto tip the least, Quebeckers are more generous, and Americans are the most generous. Europeans are hit and miss; people from the UK used to be very stingy (5-10% but don't know if that's still true), people from the Continent were more generous. Didn't get many Asians at the time, so can't hazard a guess for them. And when I visited Australia, I was amazed at how people like cabbies, waiters/waitresses, etc. fell all over themselves to help me after what I considered a standard tip of 15%. Tue Oct 20 18:26:45 -0700 2009 5114030 1104506 FrankD 2 5119751 You are right about the UK - but that is from an American perspective. If you have drinks in a UK pub you don't tip - or at least you used not to. There is far less food and drink tipping there and they bring that philosophy to the US. Americans are equally 'guilty ' over-tipping in the UK, although the wait-staff probably don't see that as a problem. Wed Oct 21 09:14:27 -0700 2009 5118636 154622 Paulustrious 1 5148396 I tip about 20% after tax, less if the service is marginal. Much less (down to zero) if the service is really, really bad. For take out orders I tip about 10%. I never order delivery food (not an option where I live). I don't use tip jars. I sometimes ask the server at Starbucks, etc. to keep the change, but I do not drop money in the jar. Mon Nov 02 04:31:24 -0800 2009 5114030 248284 taos 1 5148433 NYC here - i tip 20%-ish on the total including tax and drinks. I do not feel ripped off, as i understand that money will be part of my final total before i sit down. on delivery i tip $3-5 unless it's a really huge order , ie i have a bunch of friends over) and i live in a walk up building. i rarely use tip jars. i rarely do takeout vs delivery. Mon Nov 02 05:11:53 -0800 2009 5114030 135229 thew