658793 Mon Oct 12 06:37:13 -0700 2009 11 49 France 0 5096559 I have read that both of these places have innovatiove cooking and are special in their own way. I will have dinner this week at either one of them and was wondering if anyone has had dinner there recently and what the differences are to help me pick which one I will try. Thank you very much. Mon Oct 12 06:37:13 -0700 2009 1114623 lembro 1 5096611 Olympe is not innovative. It was thirty years ago, but it's not. It's also much more generous, whereas "fressers" come out of Chateaubriand with cravings for "a real meal". Olympe is more the grandmother of bistronomiques -- simple, almost home cooking but with wonderful ingredients and excellent technique. Le Chateaubriand is innovative in a style that is fundamentally bistrot, néo-bistrot if you like -- that is, simple recipes that you had not thought of. Waiters at le Chateaubriand are very good looking young men. No idea what they are like at Olympe's. Mon Oct 12 07:02:11 -0700 2009 5096559 96547 souphie 2 5096687 Another vote for Chateaubriand. I did not have luck with Casa Olympe the last two times I went. -- Can't keep on going and hoping against hope, even if it is practically next door to me. Mon Oct 12 07:39:39 -0700 2009 5096611 1106797 Parigi 3 5097037 Thank you, Casa Olympe is off the list. Mon Oct 12 09:42:38 -0700 2009 5096687 1114623 lembro 2 5097035 Thank you for clarifying the difference, I was actually under a different impression. It seems like I actually need to expand my search although Le Chateaubrand is closer to what I had in mind. Are there other similar places that you would recommend that perhaps combine "a real meal" with innovation. The good looking waiters are a plus but not a must. Thank you very much. Mon Oct 12 09:41:33 -0700 2009 5096611 1114623 lembro 3 5097181 Le Bistral, La Bigarrade maybe (higher end than the others), Ze Kitchen Galerie, le Pré Verre, L'Avant-Goût. Mon Oct 12 10:31:55 -0700 2009 5097035 96547 souphie 4 5097317 I agree with Soup as usual but would rate all he named over Le Chateaubriand as well, for reasons spelled out ad nauseum in my writings about Aizpitarte. John Talbott http://johntalbottsparis.typepad.com/john_talbotts_paris/ Mon Oct 12 11:19:23 -0700 2009 5097181 1088206 John Talbott 5 5097326 I'd add Frenchie. Mon Oct 12 11:22:24 -0700 2009 5097317 1106797 Parigi 6 5098101 Agreed and for traditional the Cartouche Cafe, this season's Frenchie. Mon Oct 12 16:29:26 -0700 2009 5097326 1088206 John Talbott 6 5098317 But Frenchie isn't innovative. OK it is very good, but the style of cooking is ingredient driven italian; a return to traditions and dare I say rustic values. The cooking at Frenchie turns these principles into restaurant standard food, following the style popularised by Jamie Oliver, a good example of this is their simply dressed Heirloom Tomatoes, where the tomatoes do all the work simply helped along by the dressing. Mon Oct 12 17:54:55 -0700 2009 5097326 64584 PhilD 5 5098321 John - can you supply the links to your articles. The search function throws up lots if hits on your blog but they all seem to be passing references, not the essays. Mon Oct 12 17:57:50 -0700 2009 5097317 64584 PhilD 3 5097603 We had a very good meal at Le Chateaubriand in September, no issue with the quantities or quality. It isn't a restaurant for everyone, if you want big hearty flavours, and large plates of food don't go. The portions are small, the tastes subtle and many of the dishes are textural (as in the Chinese 'kou gan"). I believe this really polarises opinion, there are those that enjoy/understand the textural component and there are many that don't. I see a lot of the leading edge Spanish chefs exploring this idea and that is where Inaki Aizpitarte takes his lead. If you want traditional or "safe" innovation don't go. If you want to take a bit of a risk and like very leading edge food it is worth it. The set four course menu is €45 and you can add an extra cheese course for €7. There are no choices, and food is cooked according to the chefs design i.e. meat is rare, fish is raw. Mon Oct 12 13:14:51 -0700 2009 5097035 64584 PhilD