654776 Thu Sep 24 17:19:11 -0700 2009 12 62 Gardening 0 5056445 Due to our garden being in the middle of a construction zone for the past couple of weeks, we're getting a late start on our planting. Right now here in Phoenix, I'm looking at putting in dark leafy greens like Swiss chard, collards, Lacinato kale, and spinach. I just planted some Japanese cucumber seed ("Soyu") next to a west-facing wall to see if I can get a crop before the weather cools off too much. As strange as it might seem, I will be planting lettuce for the very first time--going to give Little Gem and some other varieties a try. I also hope to put in some desert heirloom peas (shelling type) and some snap peas. We had great success with fava beans (which are great nitrogen fixers), so I'm definitely planting those again. If I can find space, I'll give garbanzos another go. So, what are you thinking of planting? Thu Sep 24 17:19:11 -0700 2009 86822 hohokam 1 5059445 Where did you find the desert heirloom peas? I would love a shelling pea to plant. I will probably plant beets, as I love them. I was thinking of giving onions a try as I always use onions, but I have no idea what kind or where to get them. I have grown lots of lettuce, spinach, and chard but we can't seem to keep up with it. Maybe I'll try parsnips and/or rutabagas, too. Fri Sep 25 23:43:41 -0700 2009 5056445 173425 Jen76 2 5059739 Native Seeds/SEARCH carries a lot of heirloom pea varieties collected from communities around the southwestern US and northern Mexico. I generally try to stay with the "local" varieties collected from the O'odham and Pima communities, but I bet the other varieties would work just fine. If I wasn't already working with a grower who's planting beets, I would probably put some of those in too--my partner loves them. Sat Sep 26 07:37:15 -0700 2009 5059445 86822 hohokam 3 5060474 Do you think I could squeeze in a crop of Butternut squash yet? (I'm in Tempe.) I'm not much of a gardener. I try, but haven't had huge success. I've done best with leafy greens and pea pods. I get great beet tops, but have yet to get great beet bottoms. I have 2 small-ish raised beds that my husband and father built. No irrigation - just water with hose. Maybe that's the problem. Sat Sep 26 14:42:32 -0700 2009 5059739 173425 Jen76 4 5060609 Butternut squash is a long season plant, requiring around 90 days from planting to harvest, so your best bet would have been to plant it in early August. The good news is you can start it early next spring for an early summer harvest. Today, while I was at the downtown Phx market, I found out about the planting and harvest calendar linked below... http://www.phoenixpermaculture.org/forum/topics/2008067:Topic:6683 (see .pdf link near top left-hand corner of the page) I haven't had a chance to study this calendar, but I'm guessing it could help give you ideas about things to plant in the space you were saving for the squash. :-) I'm still a root vegetable novice, so I can only guess about the beets. Could be a nutrient imbalance (e.g., too much nitrogen/not enough phosphorus promoting leafy growth over root development), shallow watering (difficult to water beds deeply with a hose), or maybe heavy/compacted clay soil (keeping the roots from expanding). Sat Sep 26 15:51:38 -0700 2009 5060474 86822 hohokam 5 5061671 That planting guide is great! Much more detailed than the Maricopa County Extension Office's version. I planted 3 rows of beets yesterday and ran out of seed. Will venture over to Baker Bros. to see what they have. Now I just have to figure out what to plant together. I just found this companion planting guide. Looks like beets and onions get along well together! http://www.ghorganics.com/page2.html Sun Sep 27 09:08:55 -0700 2009 5060609 173425 Jen76 6 5082780 Just getting back to this thread... Interesting stuff in that companion planting guide. I've never really paid much attention to the principles of companion planting because I've never really known what data (if any) these were based on. Maybe it's time to conduct some agricultural experiments at home. Tue Oct 06 10:00:59 -0700 2009 5061671 86822 hohokam 7 5082982 Well, am not a good gardener as much as I'd like to be and have no idea what data this info is based on. The first time I read about it though was in that Garden Guy book (Extreme Gardening?) as well as in Tomatoes Love Carrots. It's been several years since I read them (from the library) so I don't remember much of it. I figure I need all the help I can get! Do you have any advice about growing veggies here? Do you use fertilizer (either organic or not)? I'd prefer to stay organic (although I don't always start with organic seeds) and not use pesticides or chemical fertilizers. What do you do to your soil when you aren't growing anything in it? Tue Oct 06 10:55:33 -0700 2009 5082780 173425 Jen76 8 5083150 Welllll, that's kind of of a long story. We've been using a technique that we call "sheet mulching", which involves putting down a degradable weed barrier (e.g., heavy cardboard) sprinkled generously with nitrogen-rich organic material (e.g., chicken manure, blood meal) and then a layer of "proto-compost"--basically a mix of nitrogen-rich stuff and carbon-rich stuff (e.g., straw), and then a top layer of a mulch material that won't blow around (e.g., flakes from straw bales). Because the soil in our area is clay-ey, we sprinkle the area with gypsum first before putting down anything. This amounts to simultaneous mulching and composting directly in the planting area. Because we expect a lot of the soil nitrogen to get used up in the degradation of the carbon-rich materials, we supplement with side dressings of manure, manure-based fertilizers, and fish emulsion. We also add minerals to help acidify the soil (sulfur) and promote root growth (phosphorus via bone meal). We generally try to keep soil covered with some kind of organic material--usually straw and/or leaves from our carrizo (Arundo donax), but sometimes that forest mulch stuff from the nursery. If we had space for proper crop rotation, I'd probably try planting cover crops in spots, but that's just not gonna happen anytime soon. Tue Oct 06 11:44:41 -0700 2009 5082982 86822 hohokam 9 5083245 Uf. Most of that went over my head. Would that system work in rather small raised beds that were filled with compost, top soil and steer manure (several years ago)? I have 2 and they are about 7 feet long and 3 feet wide. Tue Oct 06 12:16:25 -0700 2009 5083150 173425 Jen76 10 5083480 With raised beds, you're probably OK with just amending the soil with manure and compost; and following up with occasional applications of bone meal, fish emulsion, and manure based fertilizer. The grower I'm working with uses humic acid/humates in addition to compost and fish emulsion. In theory, humates help plants absorb micro-nutrients (e.g., trace minerals) and macro-nutrients. I'm trying humates out at home, but I haven't attempted to conduct a true experiment to examine their effects. Tue Oct 06 13:22:53 -0700 2009 5083245 86822 hohokam 1 5079309 My first attempt at gardening was only this past spring, and am truly a beginner. In other words, I put things in the ground and see if they grow, with very little actual knowledge or skill to back it up. ;-) Today I planted a basil (to replace the monster my spring basil turned into), lettuce, cauliflower, and snap peas. We also bought Thompson and flame grapes, but haven't finished building the trellis, so they haven't gone into the ground yet. A couple weeks ago I planted a calimansi tree (calamondin orange, common in Filipino cooking)--it bloomed as soon as we put it in the ground, and it's even set some fruit! I'll be astounded if the tree actually bears fruit this first season, but in any case, I'm *so* excited to have it now! I've been looking for one for years, but most nurseries have no clue what I'm talking about, and strict AZ agricultural import laws mean that I couldn't mail order it. I finally found some at Tropica Mango Nursery on Baseline. Sage, parsley, thyme, mint, oregano, and rosemary are still going strong from the spring planting. I need to build another planting bed next weekend so I can plant my beets, radishes, and carrots. I'm sitting outside on the patio by the pizza oven, enjoying the stunning weather and heady basil scent from the giant shrub I tore down earlier today. Hooray for cool weather in Arizona, and let the planting begin! Sun Oct 04 22:54:49 -0700 2009 5056445 155583 modthyrth 2 5082844 Very cool. I think I saw calamondin at Baker Nursery last winter/spring. I could be mistaken, though. What I remember for sure was that they had a much improved selection of less commonly available citrus varieties like limequats, bergamot, and Palestine sweet lime, to name a few. They also had lots of new deciduous fruit tree varieties. If you have some fruit now, I bet you'll have at least a few to harvest when the time comes--we managed to get a half dozen good-sized fruit from our 5-gallon Meyer lemon after its first winter in the ground. Sounds like I'm the only NOT growing beets at home. I had good luck with the little round "Tonda di Parigi" carrots last year, so I'll probably give those another try this time. Many of our herb plants are dead (rosemary, some thyme) or in a sorry state (mint, Greek oregano), so I'm working on replacing and/or reviving those. I started some English thyme from seed before I left town last week, and it germinated in 4 days (rather than the 10-15 days indicated on the package). I'm pretty eager to see how the seedlings are doing when I get back later this week. Tue Oct 06 10:19:58 -0700 2009 5079309 86822 hohokam