654657 Thu Sep 24 09:44:28 -0700 2009 53 29 Not About Food 0 5055153 I was on a different thread and the issue of food allergies came up unexpectedly. Now I'm rather curious. I know people can and do develop food allergies later in life and lose those they had as children; however, are there any warning signs? Why are you one day perfectly able to eat something and a few days later react to it? I suppose personally I'm more interested in food allergies people developed as adults, but I'm sure there are a fair number of people with questions or information about the origin of their childhood food allergies too! In my particular instance, I found about my apparent food allergy on Chowhound! I can remember having kiwi make my mouth feel as though it had been torn to shreds right around the first or second time I tried it when I was about 10. It also left a weird, metallic taste in my mouth afterward. I liked the actual kiwi taste, but I usually ate it around my sister, who had the same reaction I did. I never realized there was anything odd about this, so I continued to eat it throughout the next 20 or so years. Now it appears that reaction is NOT how people normally feel after they eat kiwi! However, eating the fruit never caused any of the classic food allergy symptoms (like a rash, redness, breathing problems, etc.) for me, so I didn't recognize it as an allergy. To this day I have no other (known!) food allergies. Thu Sep 24 09:44:28 -0700 2009 1107449 tonina_mdc 1 5055249 I used to eat skate fish all the time growing up -- roasted, in stews, fermented, you name it. Then one day my dad (who really needs to learn when not to be frugal) gave me a piece of roasted skate to eat. He neglected to tell me that it was in the freezer for over a year. After a few bites I spit it out because it tasted so foul. It was bitter and tasted like ammonia. Then my body got a pretty bad histamine reaction and I was rushed to the ER. All of the doctors there said I just probably developed an allergy as food allergies can come up all of a sudden with no warning and no rhyme or reason. I don't believe this was a random occurrence. I truly believe it was my body trying to protect itself from eating that foul skate because the fish would have been poisonous. After that incident, I've learned through accidental exposure that I'm hypersensitive to it and will react even if I eat food that was on a cutting board that previously had skate on it (even if it has been washed). Luckily, skate has never been one of my favorite foods and isn't super common in restaurants. Oh, the angst I would feel if I ever develop a serious allergy to potatoes! Thu Sep 24 10:11:51 -0700 2009 5055153 10763 Miss Needle 2 5059847 Isn't skate one of the fish that can produce histamine or histamine precursor when it goes bad? That might explain part of your problem & your reaction. Sat Sep 26 08:38:23 -0700 2009 5055249 117958 anniemax 3 5067346 Thank you so much for that information. Yes, when I googled it, I found out about scombroid fish poisoning which is a certain type of poisoning that is mistaken for an allergic reaction because of histamine. Severe cases of it will cause respiratory problems and swollen tongue (which happened to me). Interestingly enough, the skate I ate at that time was definitely bad. But all my other incidental exposures with skate were from fresh fish. So it seems that my first reaction was a case of scombroid poisoning, but subsequent encounters were allergic reactions. Tue Sep 29 12:14:13 -0700 2009 5059847 10763 Miss Needle 1 5056108 My husband developed an allergy to mussels a couple of years ago. Ate moules frite for dinner, was sick all night. He figured the mussels were bad, even though I ate from the same plate, and was fine. Ordered mussels again, someplace else, was sick as a dog again. After the third time.he decided that there was no reason to eat mussels again. Thu Sep 24 14:44:04 -0700 2009 5055153 124908 jeanmarieok 2 5064214 Sounds more like an intolerance than an allergy. The same thing happens to my mom when she eats crabs. Mon Sep 28 10:50:35 -0700 2009 5056108 257691 focioncroci 1 5057456 I once over indulged in chili rellenos - they were so good I ate several orders! (Dos Amigos, Atlanta - now long gone.) That night I awoke with my belly covered in itchy strawberry sized hives. After that even a small piece of bell pepper would cause a breakout in hives. I avoided all fresh peppers for 7 years and then slowly reintroduced them back into my diet. Now I can eat normal, occasional amounts of all peppers without problems. Dried peppers such as chili powder and cayenne never were a problem during that period. Must be a component in the fresh peppers which dissipates when dried. Fri Sep 25 07:25:30 -0700 2009 5055153 111267 meatn3 2 5057622 Wow, that's bizarre! I'm amazed you managed to somehow reacclimate your body to bell peppers. Perhaps there is some chemical in bell peppers that isn't present in their smaller, hotter cousins....I'm glad you are able to indulge in bell peppers now, though; I would miss them terribly. Fri Sep 25 08:22:14 -0700 2009 5057456 1107449 tonina_mdc 3 5059880 Allergies last either 5 or 7 years (I forget which) and then they go away. Unfortunately you then get allergic to something else usually. Mom has major allergy problems and I can say this as a fact. I just got poison ivy this spring for the first time in my life, even though I used to play in fields of them as a child. Husband who used to be deadly allergic didn't get anything, even though I then realized our yard is full of it. Poor me! Sat Sep 26 08:51:10 -0700 2009 5057622 11097 coll 4 5059884 Poison ivy is evil, though I can confidently say that I have been allergic to it since I was a child, so I guess that means over 30 years now. My last bout was 2 years ago, and was by far the worst. I feel your pain! Sat Sep 26 08:53:44 -0700 2009 5059880 186923 Cachetes 5 5059932 I lived 55 years without knowing what it even looked like! Sat Sep 26 09:20:12 -0700 2009 5059884 11097 coll 4 5063593 <Allergies last either 5 or 7 years (I forget which) and then they go away.> Actually, the body has a kind of 7 year cycle, at which time allergies can appear or disappear as your body chemistry (or something) adjusts itself. As a baby I was allergic to dairy. When I grew into a toddler it went away, perhaps my larger body could handle it better. In college, my dairy allergy reappeared and I still have it 20 years later. This allergy was found because I felt sick all the time - dairy is so common in our diets that I was ingesting it constantly! I developed a mild nut allergy as a kid, which has grown MUCH worse over the years, in spite of minimal exposure. I have also developed a mild fruit allergy, with no warning signs. I have a very good friend who had no previous allergy problems, but as an adult suddenly developed a legume allergy - imagine no soy, or peanut products! As an added pain, he can't have coconut either (and he's Filipino - gave his mother fits!) Mon Sep 28 07:32:20 -0700 2009 5059880 65780 jujuthomas 4 5064274 Allergies lasting 5 or 7 years? I've had my egg and fish allergies my entire life. This makes no sense to me. My allergist, as well as other specialists, say that if you don't outgrow your allergy as a kid, you pretty much have it for life. Mon Sep 28 11:11:50 -0700 2009 5059880 257691 focioncroci 5 5064605 some of my allergies I have had all my life as well. Some - perhaps more intolerance than an "actual" allergy, came on later in life. Mon Sep 28 12:56:31 -0700 2009 5064274 65780 jujuthomas 5 5066043 My Mom, and now I, developed all our allergies after 40. For what it's worth. Tue Sep 29 02:26:13 -0700 2009 5064274 11097 coll 1 5059155 I grew up eating PB&J's with the rest of my buddies. Around age 20 I developedd severe anaphylaxis to peanuts tree nuts and a few other non food items. You'd be surpsised how much is fried in peanut oil. Also, Asian restaurants are often difficult to navigate. Fri Sep 25 19:02:04 -0700 2009 5055153 73756 enbell 2 5060785 That's horrid. I'll bet you give Thai places in particular a wide berth. It must be hard to tell what to avoid and what is safe - it seems like everything is labeled as possibly containing peanuts or having been produced in a plant and on machinery that could contain peanut matter. Sat Sep 26 17:46:32 -0700 2009 5059155 1107449 tonina_mdc 3 5061437 I thought that peanut oil didn't cause allergies, only peanuts themselves? Sun Sep 27 07:07:46 -0700 2009 5060785 124908 jeanmarieok 4 5061646 I didn't know, so I checked. Here's some info from the National Peanut Board: "Does peanut oil elicit an allergic reaction? If refined peanut oil is used properly and is not reused after cooking peanuts, it seems to be safe for most people with peanut allergy; crude oil, however, represents a risk. Cold pressed, expelled or extruded peanut oil is NOT safe for peanut allergic individuals." So I guess it depends on what is used and how it is used. Sun Sep 27 08:57:02 -0700 2009 5061437 1107449 tonina_mdc 5 5063106 Yes, and often restaurants use the cheaper version which isn't refined. Sun Sep 27 21:50:50 -0700 2009 5061646 73756 enbell 1 5059864 Shellfish allergy developed in my 20s. I noticed one day that after an evening of eating mussels, I woke up with a rash on my face and in my mouth. Each time I ate them or scallops, etc after that, the rash especially in my mouth would be a bit worse. Don't touch any of it anymore. Sat Sep 26 08:43:03 -0700 2009 5055153 186923 Cachetes 1 5059899 Your reaction to Kiwi sounds like OAS (Oral Allergy Syndrome). Its not a true allergy to the fruit itself, but a cross reaction from a similar protein found in some common pollens. It usually only causes itchiness in the mouth & throat, but not swelling or any of the other common symptoms you associate with a true allergy, and only in the rarest of rarest case can OAS go on to cause anaphylactic reactions. Sat Sep 26 09:00:50 -0700 2009 5055153 117958 anniemax 2 5061481 This is interesting. I definitely get this reaction to some fruits (too much pineapple, unripened mango), but I wonder if this is what I am getting to bivalves also. I've never had the closing of my airway, just the swelling and rash in my mouth. Thanks for the information. Sun Sep 27 07:36:33 -0700 2009 5059899 186923 Cachetes 3 5061637 It does sound like a dead ringer for what you were describing, doesn't it? I'm getting a crash course in food allergies on this thread! Sun Sep 27 08:52:56 -0700 2009 5061481 1107449 tonina_mdc 1 5059950 My sister developed an allergy to shrimp when she was in her 30's. At first I thought she just didn't like peeling them, then I saw her lips swell and face break out in hives. She can still eat all other seafood, including crabs and lobster. Sat Sep 26 09:28:47 -0700 2009 5055153 76025 mojoeater 2 5060782 Now, that's a new one! I have never heard of someone being allergic to one type of shellfish without being allergic to all of them. How did she find out that she wasn't allergic to other types? Did she just chance it or did she have an allergy test done that broke down different types of shellfish? I'm curious because my husband's brother has a very strong allergy to shellfish. We've never had my husband tested (our insurance is awful!) and it's too early to test my almost-four-year-old son according to his pediatrician. If we need to ask for a test that specifies different shellfish, I'd like to know. Sat Sep 26 17:44:07 -0700 2009 5059950 1107449 tonina_mdc 3 5060925 She lives near the ocean and eats crab all the time and lobster on occasion, with no ill affects. Has even had crawfish and no reaction whatsoever. After discovering that she could eat all these things she again tried shrimp and had a terrible reaction. Sat Sep 26 19:12:04 -0700 2009 5060782 76025 mojoeater 4 5060978 That is just incredible! Does her doctor have any explanation why she has such an awful reaction to shrimp and only shrimp? Sat Sep 26 19:50:47 -0700 2009 5060925 1107449 tonina_mdc 5 5061870 Apparently its not that uncommon. She was told that shrimp are the most allergenic of seafood and is one of the most common food allergies in the US. Sun Sep 27 10:49:52 -0700 2009 5060978 76025 mojoeater 6 5062638 Yet another lesson for me! I always thought if you were allergic to shrimp, you were allergic to all shellfish, period. Thanks for the clarification. Sun Sep 27 17:27:48 -0700 2009 5061870 1107449 tonina_mdc 6 5063820 Yeah, I can't eat shrimp, but have no problems with any other shellfish. Mon Sep 28 08:52:31 -0700 2009 5061870 124150 Naco 7 5064069 And I can't eat lobster but can eat all other seafood and shellfish. Go figure. Mon Sep 28 09:59:36 -0700 2009 5063820 25597 emmyru 1 5060186 All allergies can come on suddenly - I have taken antibiotics over the years as needed, and suddenly I am allergic (hives, wheezing) to them. Saw an allergist who basically shook his head & said it happens. I keep Benadryl handy, and an epi-pen for when I absolutely HAVE to take antibiotics. My daughter has oral allergy syndrome. From her first raw banana, she got swelling & itching. With other raw fruits she gets a rash around her mouth & itchy mouth. Tests showed her allergic to melon . . . .which she ate frequently as a baby with no apparent ill effects. Go figure. Cooked fruits are fine, but raw makes her break out. Allergist suggested avoiding foods that provoke a response (really? I never would have guessed!) but that it is related to seasonal allergies and she is allergic to pretty much every tree in the known universe. And we live in the woods :) I think many more reactions are called "allergic responses" these days, which leads to there being more people with stated food allergies. Not fun, but just the way it goes. Sat Sep 26 11:54:21 -0700 2009 5055153 249405 elfcook 2 5060809 @anniemax and elfcook: Food allergies are largely unknown territory for me, so I had never heard of oral allergy syndrome before now. That sounds pretty close to the mark! As food allergies or semi-allergies go, it sounds like I've gotten off pretty lightly. @elfcook: How odd about your daughter's reaction to raw but not cooked fruit! Is there any possibility it could be caused by pesticide residue or a preservative? And that's rotten about her tree allergies. I grew up in the country in a town with tons of old-growth trees and I was allergic to several types of tree pollen and grass pollen when I was younger. My allergies were mild, but still enough to make me miserable, especially in spring! Sat Sep 26 18:00:35 -0700 2009 5060186 1107449 tonina_mdc 3 5062126 I suffer from adult onset OAS (always had terrible allergies, just none to food). Very sadly for me, I get reactions (as described by elfcook) to so many varieties of raw fruits and veggies that I generally avoid them entirely. Luckily as elfcook points out, cooked fruits and veggies are ok. @tonina mdc... the reason for this is because the reaction is really from cross-pollination with other allergens during the growing process. For example, I'm not allergic to the "peach," but to the birch pollen that gets on/in it while it's growing. Cooking the items denatures the allergens and so people with OAS can eat them without discomfort. I thought this was all in my head- how could I be allergic to raw fruits and veggies but not cooked ones?- until I saw several allergists and did a little research. Sun Sep 27 13:13:23 -0700 2009 5060809 80024 jdinsf 4 5062631 So basically if I wanted to eat stewed kiwi, I'd probably be fine? Interesting, if unappetizing! That's rotten luck for you about the raw fruits and veggies. Is there a certain temp the produce has to reach to denature it? I'm just curious as to whether you can cook fruits and veggies lightly, still leaving some crispness to them, or if you have to bake, steam, or stew them pretty thoroughly to make them safe for you. Sun Sep 27 17:25:32 -0700 2009 5062126 1107449 tonina_mdc 3 5063604 my mother has a similar problem with stone fruits (peaches, apples, pears, cherries) they are fine if cooked, but she gets the itchy mouth and throat if she eats them raw. Mon Sep 28 07:36:22 -0700 2009 5060809 65780 jujuthomas 1 5060648 Boyfriend mysteriously developed horrible allergies to so many foods out of nowhere! http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/654495 Had hives, swelling, dizziness, ringing in the ears, nausea, headaches, fatigue. Every kind of medical test you can have and 3 months later we find out its allergies. Sat Sep 26 16:12:48 -0700 2009 5055153 1082302 Yes Please 1 5063080 I have allergies to several foods, tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, chocolate, excess sugar, and nearly 50% of foods I eat will give me an immediate reaction to my face (chin, near my lips and on forehead, small bumps appear and my skin will feel very bumpy) It goes away within 30 mins or so. I was a vegetarian for 10 years, and so fish and seafood was my main protein, one day I seemed to have developed an allergy to cat fish after trying it for the first time. Now practically all fish make me sick and I feel that I can't digest them. Salmon used to be the worst so I avoided it, however any sashimi fish (raw) is perfectly ok. I love fish and hate how I can't eat them. I'm no longer vegetarian so I'll eat some chicken, lamb and beef, quail...etc. Sun Sep 27 21:31:17 -0700 2009 5055153 224081 BamiaWruz 1 5063421 DH used to adore seafood and ate it often without any hint of a problem... then one day when he was about 30 he was sitting in a rawbar sucking down bivalves and he started to not feel very well. Five minutes later he was on the floor, and fortunately somebody there had an epipen because he needed it! The docs at the ER said 'congratulations, you're allergic to seafood don't eat ANYTHING that's been in the water or it'll probably kill you...' Later on he had actual allergy tests that revealed that he can eat most fish but not shellfish, shrimp etc. Major allergies often come out of the blue, but other people are born with them. Mon Sep 28 06:28:15 -0700 2009 5055153 67657 Kajikit 2 5064597 when I was in my 20's, I bought some shrimp/scallops/lobster to make a coquille st jacques and while cleaning the shrimp, noticed my hands were red and swollen. Then some liquid got in my eyes and the membrane around my eyes started to droop. I flushed it out, thinking big deal and went on cooking. Well the coquille went down nicely and came back ugly. I was tested and yes allergic to shrimp and lobster, but I can eat crab. Just a suggestion, but the emergency room staff said it's a good idea to carry 2 Benedryl pills, you could end up helping someone who is having a first time attack. It could help them at least until they get to a hospital. Mon Sep 28 12:55:11 -0700 2009 5063421 1105218 bistrobabe 1 5064623 There is a rumor/theory going around the kitchen at work that there are only 7 foods that trigger true allergies, the definition of a true allergy being the throat closes up. I don't have any experience with allergies but am quite skeptical of this claim. Can anyone debunk this? Also what is the technical difference between an allergy and an intolerance/sensitivity? I don't want to give anyone an itchy rash any more than I want to send anyone into anaphylactic shock so to me it is splitting hairs but curious if my chef is full of sh$t or not about the 7 foods thing. Mon Sep 28 13:02:43 -0700 2009 5055153 13150 babette feasts 2 5064708 My wife developed an allergy to shellfish when she was in her 20's. She'd always eaten lobster, crab, etc. and then she started having problems. By the third time in the hospital, they figured it out. The doctor said that it was more of a sensitivity than a true allergy and that she likely could eat shellfish "without legs" like clams, mussels, etc. I don't know why that would be true, but she's never been willing to chance it. I hate it, because she is always nervous (rightly or wrongly) about going to a place where shellfish is prominent, for fear of cross-contamination so I never get to go to places where fish is the primary thing on the menu. Mon Sep 28 13:22:16 -0700 2009 5064623 1111631 Shann 2 5065074 Wow, that doesn't sound accurate at all. I'll do some checking tonight to see if I can find some information either way. However, we many folks on here who are far better informed on this topic than I, so if anyone else can confirm or deny that rather odd assertion, that would be great. Mon Sep 28 15:40:39 -0700 2009 5064623 1107449 tonina_mdc 2 5065908 I found this link: http://www.foodallergy.org/allergens/index.html I suspect the info in the second paragraph may have been misinterpreted by your chef: "Although an individual could be allergic to any food, such as fruits, vegetables, and meats, there are eight foods that account for 90% of all food-allergic reactions. These are: milk, egg, peanut, tree nut (walnut, cashew, etc.), fish, shellfish, soy, and wheat." Mon Sep 28 22:36:44 -0700 2009 5064623 111267 meatn3 2 5067196 That's totally mythical. There are a few common substances which are very common allergens (ie. peanuts, shrimp/shellfish, etc.) but it's possible to be allergic to ANYTHING if you're unlucky enough to develop a sensitivity to it. One of my uncles developed an allergy to hazelnuts and almonds when he was over 50. He'd never had even a hint of a problem an one day voila, he had a full-blown allergy. Funnily enough, he was fine with pecans and walnuts... Tue Sep 29 11:25:56 -0700 2009 5064623 67657 Kajikit 2 5067323 So to debunk the myth, are we trying to find a food that is not one of the 7 that causes the throat to close up? Years and years ago a family friend's throat closed up from a spice and he went to the ER. But something can most definitely be an allergy without the throat closing up. The doctor can do an allergy test to prove it. I believe (but may be totally wrong) an allergy mimics an autoimmune disease but in a much lesser form. It is similar in that the immune system attacks what it thinks is harmful (the trigger) when it enters the body by reacting in a certain way. An intolerance/sensitivity on the other hand I don't think affects the immune system in the same way but produces a reaction nonetheless. Tue Sep 29 12:07:57 -0700 2009 5064623 1082302 Yes Please 3 5067524 In addition to the usual suspects, my Mom is allergic to lettuce, chocolate, tomatoes, corn (and that was a problem, what with HFCS in everything) and even to herself (actually to the mites that live on everybody's body). Plus a million other things. All confirmed at Princeton University after she couldn't stand it anymore. Then she said well I'm not giving up wine, and chocolate, and tonic water and Entenmanns cake, and Kahlua, so she did some desensitizing program they taught her, that if you eat each thing only once every four days, you will be OK. Like Day 1, fish, peas and potatoes, Day 2, chicken, corn and pasta, and so on. It got her started on the road to living with it anyway, even though she gets terrible asthma attacks all the time. Tue Sep 29 13:10:02 -0700 2009 5067323 11097 coll 4 5069962 one of my allergists explained it this way: the histamine levels in your body build up like water filling up a glass. the more you expose yourself the closer you are to a reaction, the fuller the glass. A reaction is the glass spilling over. If you limit your exposure, you keep the level in the glass low and don't have as many reactions. this makes a lot of sense to me and helps me manage my food sensitivities and allergies in a way to avoid bad reactions (for the most part). Sounds like your mother is getting a handle on it - good for her! I hope she is able to get them under control, asthma attacks SUCK! Wed Sep 30 11:29:17 -0700 2009 5067524 65780 jujuthomas 2 5067395 It does sound like your chef has wrong information. Allergies have to do with the immune system (as opposed to the digestive system as in intolerances) and results in inflammatory responses. While your throat closing up can be one response (and probably the most serious), other responses include hives, asthma and skin issues. And you can definitely be allergic to almost anything. I'm allergic to skate. I've got a friend allergic to cinnamon. Doesn't necessarily have to fit into the "Big 8" food allergens. Here is a short article that describes the differences between allergies and intolerances. http://www.webmd.com/allergies/foods-allergy-intolerance Tue Sep 29 12:30:55 -0700 2009 5064623 10763 Miss Needle 2 5067740 I'd say the official call on this is your chef is utterly incorrect. And Miss Needle, that link you posted was a very clear and concise explanation of the difference between an allergy and an intolerance. Thank you! Tue Sep 29 14:50:27 -0700 2009 5064623 1107449 tonina_mdc 2 5069016 It sounds like your chef needs to be better educated and the best person to turn to would be Chef Ming Tsai, who had to become a food allergy expert because of his son's food allergies. Here are a couple good overview articles from Resturant & Institutions Magazine on Chef Tsai: http://www.rimag.com/article/CA6520682.html http://www.rimag.com/article/CA6627690.html For further information, you can find how to keep his recommended food allergy binder at his website: http://www.ming.com/foodallergies.htm FAAN (Food Allergy & Anaphylaxis Network) has a free training booklet, "Welcoming Guests With Food Allergies" that would be useful anyone in food service to read on their own: http://www.foodallergy.org/downloads/welcomingguests.pdf Wed Sep 30 07:02:22 -0700 2009 5064623 117958 anniemax 1 5069920 Thanks fr the confirmations. This is not the only issue on which I suspect he may be full of it : ) So ANYTHING can possibly trigger a true immune system reaction? Wow. Wed Sep 30 11:16:52 -0700 2009 5055153 13150 babette feasts 2 5071218 I figure it's a good reason to expose kids to lots of different kinds of foods and not go nuts trying to keep a perfectly clean house. The hygiene theory really makes sense; if you keep people insulated from any dust or other allergens, your immune system will start picking on perfectly innocuous particles. Wed Sep 30 21:15:27 -0700 2009 5069920 1107449 tonina_mdc