picnic in san francisco.

[steve h.]

howdy,

deb and i like picnics. what's the best picnic basket we can assemble at the ferry building on saturday morning (beer and wine, too)?

where should we take this picnic basket? angel island is a favorite but something new would be appreciated.

we're hoping to be back in your great city come october.

thanks in advance,

--steve

[chezchristine]

ACME bread (pain Epi, baguettes), Andante cheese (outside), whatever fruit is in season from the farm stands.

If you want cured meats, some are available at Boccalone, Golden Gate Meats, or Molinari (old school salami). There is also a smoked fish stand at the back of the outdoor market.

There is a wine store inside that also sells beer (and plastic wine glasses), chocolate from Recchiuti for dessert or Scharffenberger as a more inexpensive substitute.

My favorite place within walking distance of the Ferry Building is Levi's Plaza Park, hidden behind some high bushes near Embarcadero and Battery. It's a little less windy there and there are wonderful benches and grassy areas to sit on. Remember that the weather can be unpredictable so dress in layers! Have fun.

[JasmineG]

I'd get the above, except cured meat from Fatted Calf, I've brought those on a number of picnics, and impressed those I was with. Bring a knife. For dessert, I'd get something great from the Downtown bakery stand, or Frog Hollow, or from Boulette's Larder.

[Dave MP]

I love combining the Acme's cranberry walnut bread (it's quite a dense, dark bread which is amazing - and normally I hate walnuts in things) with a strongish goat or sheep's milk cheese. Ideally one that's soft and spreadable. Various types available at cowgirl, and probably at other cheese stands at Ferry Building as well.

[vulber]

as for picnic location, while this is on the other side of town (literally), the sutro heights park is an amazing spot for a picnic - great ocean views, quiet, but not too cold

[Shane Greenwood]

Another suggestion if you are interested in exploring a second spot in the city. Hop on the N-Judah Muni train (catch it from any of the Market St. stations) and take it to Cole St. There is a great little cheese shop and deli called Say Cheese. You can get great picnic items there including gourmet cheese, sandwiches & meats, wine, etc. From there you are just a few blocks from Golden Gate Park, where you'll find a million nice spots to picnic.

[vulber]

I also find that AG Ferrari is a good place to get all your picnic needs

[Robert Lauriston]

Andante (outside) for cheese, Fatted Calf (outside) and Boccalone (inside, don't miss the "pork butter") for meat, Acme (line's usually shorter inside) and/or Della Fattoria (outside) for bread, Downtown Bakery (outside) for pastries. Shop around outside for fruit.

Ferry Plaza Wine Merchant (inside) for wine. They have a very small selection of beer, if you're driving stop by City Beer instead. And if you do that, you might as well check out Terroir down the block for a more interesting selection of wines.

[rworange]

I like both Say Cheese and A.G.Ferrari for what they are, but I would hardly recommend them to a visitor. The first is a nice enough neighborhood shop, but even though I passed by there weekly for years, I rarely stopped since it just wasn't interesting enough. Great place if you are visiting someone in the nearby hospital. The A. G. Ferrari chain, for me, is for the occasional Italian item I'm not finding elsewhere. The deli is a bit better than the supermarket type but not by much.

As to Ferry Plaza on Saturday, for bread I'd try some of the Saturday-only bakeries rather than Acme which is there every day. Della Fattoria is probably the best bet. I also like Downtown Bakery quite a lot, but the bread I like the best, the Como bread, isn't a picnic bread. They have excellent apple turnovers this time of year.

Definately stop by Andante for cheese. I'm not so much a fan of Fatted Calf at the farmers markets as their meat is packaged and usually more than I want to buy. Also at the market there is no tasting.

You might stop by Roli Roti for one of their fabulous roast chickens or the porchetta sandwich.

Another cheese stand I like is Bodega and Yerba Santa goat cheese. They have samples so you can try to decide what you like. As much as I like the farm for other things, I'm not so much a fan of the cheese at Spring Hill. However, around this time of year they make a lovely pumpkin quark. They do some other flavored quarks that you might like if pumpkin isn't available.

Devoto should still have some lovely heirloom apples. They are one of my favorite apple vendors in the Bay Area. Hamada is another reliable fruit vendor. I'm not a fan of Frog Hollow's over-priced fruit EXCEPT in the fall they have Warren pears. This are at the top of my list for pear wonderfulness. If you are there when the pears are available, I hightly recommend them. However, as far as produce, almost all have samples and shop with your eyes

Also, it is not fancy, trendy, food-of-the moment stuff, but for salami (not the oh-so-chi-chi salumi) I like Mastrelli's a lot. Same owners as Molinari's and IMO they are better than all the more self-promotional new cold cut and sausage makers at Ferry Plaza. There's something to be said for experience. They only make some of their own sausages, but they have some nice Italian and old-school local cold cuts.

[steve h.]

thanks everyone for your recommendations. i'll report back sometime in november. on a related note, i'm hoping to take the ferry to alameda and tour hangar one (i'm pretty fond of brewers, distillers, bakers, cheese makers, etc.). is there anyplace nearby where we can grab a snack?

thanks in advance,

--steve

[Windy]

No, there's nothing nearby but it's a worthwhile place to visit and/or tour. You can buy tiny bags of chicaronnes for $3.

Don't forget there's booze on the ferries! A gin and tonic on the way to Larkspur or Sausalito in a plastic cup is a fine way to enjoy the bay.

[steve h.]

very cool.
sailing and drinking are two of my favorite pastimes. you have to be a sailor.
thanks, windy.

[Robert Lauriston]

Hangar One is in the middle of nowhere, but you could catch the 63 bus to Fruitvale, get some Mexican food, and BART back.

[steve h.]

fruitvale is interesting. next trip maybe.

[bbulkow]

Check out Rosenblum Cellars, only a few blocks away, huge warehouse where they keep their casks. Well appointed tasting room upstairs, check for hours, zins to die for.

Best local food would be the new Everett and Jones at the corner of Main and Atlantic. Haven't been to this location (it's a rundown stripmall). E&J can be good, people mostly don't like the Jack London Square location because it's gussied up and the service is bad and the bbq is only passable. A stripmall location like this is more "back to the roots" and thus might be OK. Make mine a two way with links and ribs, hot sauce!

[bbulkow]

Ok, I looked it up. Hangar One's web site *is wrong*. They claim it's only a half-mile walk from the ferry terminal to their building. There's no way that's right in person - and eyeballing it on a map, it's maybe just more than a mile, which seems right. The walk is cool if you like industrial chic - the walk is right by the huge cranes of oakland, past lots of base buildings, an airplane on a stick, everything. Often with big container ships, and with a great view of the bay bridge.

But Rosenblum is even closer, although it's not half as cool as the old hangar that Hanger One is in. Rosenblum is a large building just to your right facing (getting back on) the ferry - it's the largest building close to the pier, should be hard to miss. Google Maps shows it with lots of black squares on the roof - like they've got solar or something.

I'd do the Hangar One tour first, because it's more interesting, and if you only end up doing one, it should be Hangar One.

E&J is kind of out of the way if you're actually walking, but could be done (you'd probably end up doing 1 mile to HO, 1 mile HO->EJ, 1/2 mile EJ->Rosenblum).

If you have a bicycle, consider taking it on the ferry! Even consider renting a bicycle near the ferry terminal in SF. Then you can tool all around Alameda NAS, go down where the USS Hornet is. With a bicycle, you'd have access to the webster street restaurants, although I can't think of a single one I'd recommend; really, it's a sad lot. perhaps I'm missing one.

The good restaurants (like BSS, and the Alameda outpost of Lucky13) are on Park, which is fairly happening. That's a few miles (3 from the ferry?). If you're willing to bike 6 miles, you might as well consider bicycling the webster tube (there's a protected walkway), sampling the joys of chinatown (and, dude, the trappist) and taking the ferry back out of oakland.

A trip like that - especially by bicycle - would be a new and interesting way to see an underexplored part of the bay area. If you take a bike to downtown oakland, bring a big, bad lock. Alameda's much more low key.

Regrettably, you can't get out onto the old, unused airstrip. Fences. The land is owned by a bizzare public/private partnership, and they have security guards. The guards are *MUCH* more low-key than military police, but finding a gap in the fence and wandering out would probably not be a smart move, although the place has killer views.

[steve h.]

thanks, bbulkow.

it's becoming clear to me that i need to branch out from san francisco proper.

[Robert Lauriston]

The best place to eat on that end of Alameda is East Ocean Seafood. Best dim sum in the East Bay, 10am-2:30pm.

Everett & Jones, meh.

Diageo/Rosenblum, only if you like overly alcoholic fruit and oak bombs.

Renting bikes is a good suggestion, Alameda's very bike-friendly. You can take bikes on the ferry and (except at rush hour) on BART. The tunnel is awful, the Park St. bike / pedestrian path is much nicer.

My Alameda faves:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&...

[steve h.]

thanks, robert.

forbidden island? tiki bar??

oh yes.

[bbulkow]

The tiki bar is excellent. It's a nowhere location in the middle of the island, but it's the real deal - although I'll admit to some underwhemment about the actual drinks. I haven't been that often so the sample size isn't great.

Oakland has some good bars too. The Trappist, Heinolds first and last chance, and some serious dive bars like Merchant's.

E&J is only recommended if you persist on the walking option and you really, really want some food in your gut. There is not even a small shack with food anywhere near hangar one. You're certainly better off with a baguette and some of cowgirl's best than E&J.

Robert is right, Rosenblum is hot and fruity. I don't think they go too far over the top, and have decent balance, but subtle they're not. If I had half an hour to wait before the next ferry you can be certain I'd head in. If I was making a whole day of it including a tiki bar and The Trappist, I might skip it.

Remember that drinking and bicycling is still a DUI if you go over the edge! Alameda cops are ... special. They do not expect tourists, and they are known to be really rough with, er, african-americans. Alameda has been this strange lilly white town that time forgot - the whole thing made more sense when the base was active - and the place is changing fast. Oakland PD is kind of the opposite - they've seen it all, and if you're not shooting someone, it's all good.

The tunnel is awful, but it's the only way to oakland downtown that doesn't have you riding 5 miles out of your way (and for the part through oakland, you better have a mountain bike). The tunnel is short, but it is a dedicated walkway grade-seperated from the cars. If it really peeves you, find the closest bus stop (probably webster and atlantic) and strap your bike on the front. BART back is a great idea.

Oakland chinatown is also the real deal. No tourists at all, quite vibrant. There's a few recs for eats there if you search.

Alameda actually has a beach, too. It's very popular with kite surfers, and has nice views. If I was on a bike, I'd try to swing by but not make a big deal. Kite surfers need very particular wind, I think that beach is active around 4 or 5.

[steve h.]

howdy bbulkow,

i collect dive bars the way some people collect stamps. i have limited time this trip but thanks to you, robert, others oakland is now back on my radar.

very cool.

[bbulkow]

Well, find some time, dude!

Merchant's is excellent - although I admit I haven't been there since it changed hands - and I know one of the guys who bought it and he's super cool but more in the young/hipster mode than the crusty barkeep mode. They used to have brass plaques installed for the regulars - the seats near the door.

If you really like dive bars, there's a collection of old base/military bars in alameda. I think the ones I'm thinking of are on Park - like the Serenader, if memory serves. These places are vanishing fast.

[steve h.]

we're out in san francisco two, three times a year.
i'll make it happen.
thanks.

[bbulkow]

Looks like the Serenader is closed. Owner retired, then died earlier this year.

[Stephanie Wong]

Khanh Huong Chinese BBQ
1707 Lincoln Ave. @ Grand
Alameda CA
510-769-8898

This Chinese Vietnamese place is just 1 block from Forbidden Island -- Good food, reasonable prices. Check the white board, all three menus (including 3 dishes for $16.99), and posted BBQ deli board.

Have gone 3 times in the past 30 days & have enjoyed the roast duck & crispy skin roast pork, surf clam chow fun (very delicate flavors), roast duck won ton noodle soup, chinese broccoli with chinese sausage & lop yuk, braised egg plant w/ roast pork, spicey (green jalapeno) sand dab/flounder(?) filet stir-fried with sweet onions (very tasty).

Nice alternative to East Ocean -- another automatic goto when we want Cantonese.

We went to Hangar One couple years ago and enjoyed a fresh perspective of the SF skyline from their picnic tables. Afterwards we in and share a specially priced tasting of all their offerings at the bar. Can't remember the cost, but definitely left with an altered frame of mind!

[steve h.]

thanks, stephanie.
altered state? a worthy goal and an interesting metaphor.
i'm a fan of cantonese food. we try to get to hk once a year in december. i can truthfully say i have not begun to scratch the surface there. i need to re-double my efforts.

[Robert Lauriston]

The drinks at Forbidden Island were exceptional. I haven't been there since Martin Cate left, but I saw him at an event and he told me he didn't expect it to change. They make their own extracts from scratch and so on. It also has the campy tiki decor but I don't care so much about that.

If you're cited for CUI it's just a $250 fine, nothing like DUI.

There are warning signs up at the beach about micro-organisms in the water that can cause "swimmer's itch."

[steve h.]

cui?

"swimmers itch?"

very cool.

toto, i don't think we're in manhattan anymore.

i'm looking forward to this.

[bbulkow]

I know I said I wasn't impressed by the drinks, but I know enough to know I *should* be impressed by the drinks. The particular few days I was there (also pre-Martin's departure) I knew I wasn't appreciating well ---

I heartily believe the drinks are great.

It's good to know CUI fines are less.

Fines are funny things. In a car, I got tagged for crossing a double yellow *into a carpool lane that I was legally entitled to be in* and the fine was well in excess of $300 - I think about $360. That's just what the fine for "illegally entering a carpool lane" is. No points, though, since it's a carpool violation, which I didn't get, because I was a carpool. I thought it should have been a simple crossing the double yellow fine, which is lower but points.

Oh well.

[steve h.]

my wife bought a car back in '06. it has a 6-speed manual transmission, brembo brakes, limited-slip differential, front and rear anti-sway bars.

no points.

[Melanie Wong]

Have you been to Shauna and Kent Rosenblum's new venture in Alameda, Rock Wall Wine Co? The reserve zin made from Monterosso Vineyard fruit is beautiful with great length and persistance, intensity, and balance.

http://www.rockwallwines.com/

[steve h.]

melanie,
what food would you pair with this wine?

[Melanie Wong]

For a picnic, I'm not sure. But I'd love to have it with some grilled lamb seasoned with rosemary and garlic.

Looking at the website, i don't see a vineyard name listed for the reserve zin. I tried at the Family Winemakers tasting last month and Shauna said that it was from Monterosso fruit. Whether it's 100%, I didn't ask, but it does taste like Monterosso to me, as that breeding shows through.

[steve h.]

zin is far from a picnic wine. i like the old stuff, though.
thanks for your insight.

[Melanie Wong]

BTW, if your travel dates are flexible, you really should try to join us at the Chowing with the Hounds picnic in Berkeley's Tilden Park. That's the best picnic fare in the area. You can pick up some nice cheeses and bread to bring as your contribution to the huge buffet, and I have a bunch of wines (a case or two) open for tasting. Here are the links to sign up and the report from last year's event to give you an idea of what it's about.

Ninth Annual Chowing with the Hounds Picnic! October 3rd, 2009, details and registration info
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/652687

Chowing with the Hounds Picnic, 2008 Report.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/560808

Even better, bring us some pastrami from NYC. A few years ago a contingent of hounds drove up from LA with Langers and I was ecstatic.

[janetofreno]

I'm starting to be really a little perturbed that Vision Expo, the largest trade show for my biz in the west, and one that I have to attend for various reasons, is here in Vegas the first weekend in October instead of in September as it usually is. I was offered tickets to the Cal/USC game Saturday night, so I could have seen THE game of the year AND gone to the Hound picnic...all in one weekend! Damn!

My consolation is that a good friend's son is now a sous chef at Bouchon, and he is talking about arranging a "special dinner" while he is out here for the meeting....

[steve h.]

hi melanie,
thank you for the invitation. nothing i would like better than meeting you, sipping a glass or two and swapping a few tales.
deb and i will be in san francisco october 15-20 (i take her to a great place every year for her birthday).
my loss. maybe next year. pastrami? hell yes.
--steve

[Melanie Wong]

Aw, too bad. But perhaps for the best if it's your wife's celebration. I seem to recall some rather exuberant PDA on my part that might be considered inappropriate since I hardly knew the man (the bearer of pastrami).

And, I want to emphasize that the upcoming picnic on Oct 3 is open to chowhounds from everywhere, all are welcome, just register/pay in advance.

[steve h.]

wrap the next picnic around october 19 and i'll be there. maybe consider a return to golden gate park/crissy (sp?) field (i'm partial to crissy field for a picnic but don't know the logistics)?
easily said for a visitor, of course.

all the best.

[dnerticus]

Within biking distance is the New Zealander Pub. Their lamb burger screams lamb. I love lamb. Grab a zin from Rosenblum on the way there to go with your lamb burger. The fine folks at Rosenblum would be able to suggest one for you. New Zealander also has various other lamb dishes and a nice selection of pub pies. The Chicken and Spinach is my favorite. Perfect with a black and tan.

[rworange]

link

[Caroline1]

Ooooh... You're too late and asking about a Saturday instead of a Sunday. For me, "San Francisco" and "picnic" conjure up only one place Stern Grove! Great concerts by great artists and they're free! And "picnic" is the only way to fly at these events. But this season ended last month, but you can keep checking here: http://www.sterngrove.org/2009season.... to find out what nexxt season will bring, then plan a trip to SF accordingly. The concerts can't be beat at any price (and they're FREE!), but the food is always what you make of it... There's always Dungeness crab, a loaf of bread and a jug. Whatever you do, have fun!

[steve h.]

parks, picnics, concerts. it can't get any better.

[steve h.]

somewhere on my infinite list of things to do is the need to see a springtime production on mt. tam. i'm not looking for great theater, just a good time/good picnic. the bay area is pretty special.