650836 Tue Sep 08 07:41:23 -0700 2009 398 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 5013060 My nomination is ropa vieja. Commonly found in Cuban restaurants. I always see this listed as a house specialty and I often see this highlighted when people talk about Cuban or Spanish food. Oh if I only had a dollar for every wet, overly chewy, jaw-numbing, tasteless piece of meat found in your average ropa vieja. RV means "old clothes' in Spanish, and, although I agree this could be a great dish, it is almost always awful. Truly closer to eating old clothes than most restaurants would like to admit. Instead of serving RV, I wish more places would serve vaca frita or 'fried cow.' Fried beef and onions is usually transcendent, and I am surprised it doesn't make it's way onto menus more often and finally knock RV off its pedestal. Tue Sep 08 07:41:23 -0700 2009 10156 Steve 1 5013848 ANY thing with chipotle Tue Sep 08 12:00:25 -0700 2009 5013060 109905 laliz 2 5016403 Got that right! Overpowers everything. Wed Sep 09 10:05:51 -0700 2009 5013848 140140 mrbigshotno.1 3 5018359 Use less, or use it on more powerful stuff. I put it on eggs. In the right quantity, it's a nice balance. Wed Sep 09 22:00:19 -0700 2009 5016403 184889 blair_houghton 3 5025171 I make a wonderful soup with carrots, roasted red peppers, celery, onions, and a bit of chipotle. It is fabulous, and not at all overpowered, though it could easily be. Sat Sep 12 15:25:33 -0700 2009 5016403 19782 Full tummy 2 5028185 Do you mean the chile? Or like BBQ sauce? Mon Sep 14 07:37:12 -0700 2009 5013848 180623 Soop 2 5038981 amen, sistah laliz, on the chipotle "phenom"! Fri Sep 18 05:27:45 -0700 2009 5013848 105717 alkapal 1 5014096 Actually, I've been pretty lucky with RV in the few Cuban restaurants I've had them in New York. I was going to nominate authentic Chicken Scarpariello. Scarpariello translates to "shoemaker" in Italian, and the dish is supposed to have been created by a poor working peasant who cobbled shoes. It is nothing but the most horrid pieces of a chicken -- not your usual parts. Just because it is very garlicky and has a lot of lemon, it still does not mask the fact that what you are eating is normally tossed or saved for stock in most American kitchens. I was stunned to have been served this rather than typical chicken parts at a restaurant. Tue Sep 08 13:34:09 -0700 2009 5013060 87837 RGC1982 2 5014799 I have had good luck with ropa vieja in south Florida, but the cuban food here is way better than in Cuba. RV is not commonly offered in Cuba: beef is not their long suit and it is scarce, save for a few paladares. As for cuban bread, it sucks. Stale, tasteless, too crumbly. Only useful for mopping up tasty liquids, or for a pressed sandwich. Tue Sep 08 17:41:44 -0700 2009 5014096 57170 Veggo 3 5015019 I agrre with you about Cuban bread. At most places, it is a bit like styrofoam. Tue Sep 08 19:06:22 -0700 2009 5014799 10156 Steve 1 5014168 Macaroni & Cheese. It just doesn't do it for me. Tue Sep 08 13:54:32 -0700 2009 5013060 71241 lynnlato 2 5038985 same here -- even the "gourmet" home-made kind. (but ya know, bacon-girlfriend, that we might give it another shot if it had some (read: "LOTS") of crumbled bacon in the mac & cheese). Fri Sep 18 05:28:18 -0700 2009 5014168 105717 alkapal 1 5014174 Chicken Marbella from he Silver Palate. I don't get it -- people seem to love it -- and I find the combination of brown sugar and prunes more suited to a dessert than an entree. My husband attributes it to people haveing infintile tastes -- liking anything that is sweet. Save me from another dinner party where that is served as the entree!! Tue Sep 08 13:57:08 -0700 2009 5013060 34558 roxlet 2 5014334 You're not alone. I also find it a bit too sweet for my taste as well. DH's answer would be roasted bone marrow. It's good, but he doesn't find it life altering as how some people make it out to be. My answer about half a year to a year ago would have been toro. Every place (including some very notable Japanese sushi restaurants) I've had it served some sinews in it. So I didn't really get toro as the sinews got in the way of really appreciating the velvety texture. But I then had the most wonderful pieces of toro at Ushiwakamaru in NYC and totally understood what all the fuss was about. Honestly, I don't know what my answer to this question would be. I can name off specific dishes at certain restaurants that I feel are overrated. But to say an entire dish is overrated everywhere? This, to me, sounds more like personal preference. There can be so many versions of a dish and there can be a huge variety in ingredient quality. And the skill of the cook definitely comes into play as well. For example, I kind of understood where DH was coming from with the bone marrow until I had it at Prune in NYC. I've had bone marrow at some very well known places (eg. Blue Ribbon in NYC, St. John in London). I thought it was good (in fact, sometimes very good), but I didn't understand why people went ga ga over it. What was so great about it? I didn't find it transcendental. I guess the cynical side of me was wondering whether so many people raved about bone marrow because it was trendy and Bourdain proclaimed that he wanted it to be his last meal. But after having it at Prune, I understood it more. Prune's bone marrow was a lot more flavorful than the other examples I've had in the past. The other roasted bone marrows I've had in the past were well prepared, but I think the quality of the marrow at Prune really outshone the other examples. Must have come from one happy cow. However, roasted bone marrow (even Prune's) wouldn't even make it into my top 100 considerations for my last meal. But I do get other people's love for it more. Tue Sep 08 14:49:48 -0700 2009 5014174 10763 Miss Needle 3 5014662 I wanted to try bone marrow when I was in the city earlier this year. We went firt to Landmarc and had there's and I too didn't get what all the hub bub was about. Then we went to Blue Ribbon Brasserie another night and I had there's, with the oxtail marmalade and I then I understood. I was a happy, happy girl. 'Course the few adult beverages I had preceding it could have contributed to my good mood too. :) Tue Sep 08 16:50:05 -0700 2009 5014334 71241 lynnlato 2 5021994 While I'm a huge fan of the Silver Palate cookbooks, I never got Chicken Marbella. I'm in complete agreement. But then I just don't think chicken and sweet go together. Fri Sep 11 08:44:35 -0700 2009 5014174 324814 nomadchowwoman 3 5025175 But I once had a wonderful chicken breast stuffed with goat cheese and apricots. Fabulous! Sat Sep 12 15:26:13 -0700 2009 5021994 19782 Full tummy 1 5014371 Caviar. There is nothing wrong with it, but it just isn't all that. Tue Sep 08 14:59:03 -0700 2009 5013060 57890 KaimukiMan 2 5014724 I think you are too young to remember the Iranian Caspian Sea beluga in the chilled tins, which is no longer imported. It was the real deal, although one could argue whether is was worth the price. My college girlfriend simply didn't care about the price. Tue Sep 08 17:11:52 -0700 2009 5014371 57170 Veggo 3 5153333 In '69, I was " back in the USSR", ate so much Beluga and deep fried sturgeon, never considering that I would seldomly ever have it again. Tue Nov 03 15:30:10 -0800 2009 5014724 93538 Passadumkeg 2 5023795 I'm with you, KaimukiMan! And the next-worst is a very well-aged feta cheese. I know when something doesn't taste good. Fri Sep 11 20:36:48 -0700 2009 5014371 1100181 genmam 2 5033032 I'd had tastes of caviar here and there over the years but never really appreciated it either until the evening several years ago that my husband and I went to this wonderful Russian restaurant in West Hollywood (which unfortunately is no longer there), Diaghelev. We started with a tasting sampler of 5 or 6 different caviars, starting with a relatively inexpensive one up to the most expensive, finest caviar. I don't remember all of them except I know it included osetra, sevruga and beluga. We intentionally started with the least expensive and worked our way up to the beluga and I have to say that it was an eye-opening and mind expanding experience! OMG! I finally understood what all the hubbub was about! It was served with the appropriate accoutrements (toast points, creme fraiche, etc.). We always talked about going back to try it again but never did, one of the reasons being that it was incredibly expensive. (We had splurged that night for our anniversary.). You want to know the ironic thing about all this? Growing up we had several Iranian family friends who would from time to time bring over giant tins of caviar that they had brought back with them from visits home (this was in the 70s) and I can still see my dad and those friends enjoying those giant tins of caviar.... I tried them of course but i was probably about 14 or 15 and I just didn't appreciate it. What I would give to experience having a giant tin of that Iranian caviar sitting in front of me to dig in to!! Okay, so my mouth is watering now... :o) Tue Sep 15 19:51:12 -0700 2009 5014371 233553 schmoopy 3 5033133 How incredible that sounds. I'm eating some great homemade fried fish and onion rings but salivating for caviar :) Tue Sep 15 20:39:12 -0700 2009 5033032 131001 c oliver 1 5014380 Braised pork belly. Kobe sliders (seems nobody knows what Kobe beef really is, and Kobe-style just ain't all that). Bloomin'-onion. Sweet potato fries. Penne alla puttanesca. Tue Sep 08 15:04:09 -0700 2009 5013060 209317 SaltyRaisins 2 5014609 Pasta puttanesca is wonderful, if done right. I only eat it at home :-) Tue Sep 08 16:35:08 -0700 2009 5014380 34558 roxlet 2 5020464 Sliders of any kind-they're always dry and tasteless Thu Sep 10 15:39:31 -0700 2009 5014380 158403 jcattles 3 5021439 Sliders can be underwhelming, for sure, but the concept is pretty solid if you're at the right place. We have one in Hackensack, NJ (White Manna) that would make you a convert. I can't even think about going to White Castle anymore, there's such a huge quality gap between the two. Fri Sep 11 04:38:29 -0700 2009 5020464 12713 TongoRad 4 5031663 For Sliders, stick to White Castle and accept the consequences! Tue Sep 15 10:45:51 -0700 2009 5021439 210452 dcdavis 1 5014728 chicken marsala (with the wine) only the thin runny one - I love it with a creamy sauce otherwise it's meh. Tue Sep 08 17:13:06 -0700 2009 5013060 22559 smartie 1 5014821 Anything involving panko. Anything involving eel/squid/octopus. Smoothies. Organic anything (maybe I'm a hick, but I can never taste much difference). Tue Sep 08 17:48:53 -0700 2009 5013060 1091147 almond3xtract 2 5014843 Eel/squid/octopus, really? Is it the squeamish factor, or could it be you have not had the "good stuff"? Tue Sep 08 17:58:30 -0700 2009 5014821 57170 Veggo 3 5015624 Squid is getting a bad rap from all that pre-breaded bait quality sysco suff that gets deep fried. We have been getting the most wonderful fresh squid this summer. Wed Sep 09 04:50:25 -0700 2009 5014843 253154 Fritter 4 5035379 I think it's funny that the word "Sysco" drives tremors into the heart of Chowhounds everywhere. As it should. Squid, eel, and octopus (mmm baby octopus) delightful. Panko, and necessity in life. Wed Sep 16 16:55:09 -0700 2009 5015624 277493 DallasDude 3 5020693 I have had the good stuff. It is not for me. Thu Sep 10 17:13:23 -0700 2009 5014843 1091147 almond3xtract 4 5023588 It's okay. More for me. :) Fri Sep 11 18:45:32 -0700 2009 5020693 105625 EWSflash 2 5020079 For me organic is not about taste but rather about not wanting pesticides in my food. I think anyone who claims that organic actually tastes better or different is being silly...IMHO. Thu Sep 10 13:13:56 -0700 2009 5014821 67742 HungryRubia 3 5038990 you obviously missed -- or did you -- the organic milk thread fight last year. Fri Sep 18 05:33:16 -0700 2009 5020079 105717 alkapal 2 5024171 No panko? You have got to be kidding me! Panko is delish! Non greasy, tasty, crunchy as can be (even the next day, cold). What is not to like? IMO...overrated would have to be fresh mozeralla cheese......it tastes like....well....nothing......... Sat Sep 12 06:20:21 -0700 2009 5014821 154476 Lindseyup67 3 5024296 I'm with you...I don't get the big deal with mozeralla cheese. It does taste like nothing. Cheese, in general, I think is way overrated. I know that comment will exert some comments. :) Sat Sep 12 07:43:15 -0700 2009 5024171 18011 Jacey 3 5024494 REAL, fresh buffalo mozzarella actually tastes wonderful. Whenever I'm in Germany for the summer I make sure to eat tons of it, since it is soooo much cheaper than in the U.S. I refuse to pay $8.99 for one ball of mozzarella from Gustosella or whatever the hell it's called here, compared to 1.29 € back home. It is nothing like what is sold as "fresh mozzarella" -- if you're eating that, you might as well be eating white play-do. Sat Sep 12 09:21:01 -0700 2009 5024171 116513 linguafood 4 5024515 Doesn't Play-Doh have more flavor and smell? Sat Sep 12 09:34:58 -0700 2009 5024494 105625 EWSflash 5 5024795 Ha. Most definitely more smell. Never tasted it, tho, so I have to defer to more knowledgeable hounds '-D Sat Sep 12 12:08:37 -0700 2009 5024515 116513 linguafood 6 5026917 You've never tasted Play-Do? Showoff. Sun Sep 13 15:30:16 -0700 2009 5024795 127625 fern 5 5027534 Way more salt. Way, way, way. Sun Sep 13 20:23:30 -0700 2009 5024515 19782 Full tummy 1 5014989 Burrata. No one loves cheese more than I do, but I just don't see the attraction in this weird, runny, off-tasting stuff. It looks awfully pretty, though, with the leaves and all. Tue Sep 08 18:53:05 -0700 2009 5013060 13722 small h 2 5015653 Have to agree. We went to a mozzarella bar in Florence and ordered some. It was just too rich. Wed Sep 09 05:15:35 -0700 2009 5014989 34558 roxlet 3 5019464 "Too rich"? Is that a valid category?? Thu Sep 10 10:08:43 -0700 2009 5015653 11478 Will Owen 4 5020088 It is for me. I find super-fatted cheese (like St. Andre) kind of gaggy. Thu Sep 10 13:15:33 -0700 2009 5019464 13722 small h 5 5020800 Burrata is hardly super fatted. It's a whole milk cheese. Not a triple cream! And leaves? I wonder if you mean something else. Thu Sep 10 18:09:16 -0700 2009 5020088 64882 Vetter 6 5020854 I didn't mean that burrata was super-fatted - it ain't. I was responding to Will Owen's query about "too rich" as a category. As to the leaves, yep, I mean burrata: http://www.seriouseats.com/required_eating/images/20080602_burrata.jpg http://asweetpea.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/burrata-image.jpg http://www.mangiabenepasta.com/burrata.html Thu Sep 10 18:39:09 -0700 2009 5020800 13722 small h 7 5033045 Glad you clarified the "leaves" thing... I've had burrata in a dish too but didn't remember any leaves. I see that that's sometimes how it is presented. Thanks for the pictures. And I agree, very over-rated! Tue Sep 15 19:57:05 -0700 2009 5020854 233553 schmoopy 8 5035415 I adore a good burrata. We have a cheese factory in Dallas that makes an unusual version (I believe it is made differently to extend the usual short shelf life), link below. What is especially nice is a caprese using burrata. What a flavor diffrence, and the texture is dynamite. So fresh and creamy. If your burrat isn't up to par, you do not have a fresh burrata. The shelf live is essentially a day. http://www.mozzco.com/ Wed Sep 16 17:14:30 -0700 2009 5033045 277493 DallasDude 4 5023586 Hey, I like triple creme cheeses as much as the next person, but there was just something about this burrata that was really nauseating. But I'm not sure what you mean by "valid category." What is that in reference to? Fri Sep 11 18:44:44 -0700 2009 5019464 34558 roxlet 1 5015503 I've not had ropa vieja, but I'd wager that it is one of the dishes that falls into the "better when done at home" category. I think fleamarket-carnival BBQ turkey legs are over rated. They looks so juicy and like they would taste wondeful. But I have never had one that wasn't flavorless and dry. Actually, generally speaking I find turkey to be overrated. Wed Sep 09 00:48:04 -0700 2009 5013060 118120 luckyfatima 2 5019324 you know? you're right. I always order with anticipation and it is always disappointing at carnivals. Thu Sep 10 09:33:26 -0700 2009 5015503 109905 laliz 1 5015673 Anything that calls itself "A playful re-imagining of the classic dish." Any slider that doesn't come from Krystal/White Castle. Tapas. Wed Sep 09 05:26:06 -0700 2009 5013060 12359 monkeyrotica 2 5020698 White Castle is overrated!! Just smelling the outside of a WC makes me feel ill... So much grease! Thu Sep 10 17:14:22 -0700 2009 5015673 1091147 almond3xtract 2 5021293 I'm just tired of calling small hamburgers and other similarly-shaped sandwiches "sliders." The name is grody (we all know where it comes from: http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/slider_or_slyder_mini_hamburger/), but I don't mind the concept. They can be done really well. This thread is good: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/598348 Thu Sep 10 22:51:26 -0700 2009 5015673 130151 dmd_kc 3 5023841 the word 'grody' is just that..... Fri Sep 11 21:06:28 -0700 2009 5021293 24035 robt5265 4 5038999 funny -- i hadn't heard "grody" in a long time! LOL! i mean, like, to the max!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valspeak Fri Sep 18 05:36:13 -0700 2009 5023841 105717 alkapal 5 5043255 I stand by my "grody" as a child of the '80s with tongue firmly in cheek and a mastery of snark and by-now passe cynicism. Sun Sep 20 00:02:07 -0700 2009 5038999 130151 dmd_kc 1 5015840 Thanksgiving dinner is mine....the work/reward ratio is off the charts and it's a meal based on tradition with few shining stars. Wed Sep 09 06:47:56 -0700 2009 5013060 11990 Janet from Richmond 2 5016444 YES! My family has no interest in it at all and everyone else I talk to thinks it's a tragedy. There's no one dish there that I feel I must have, nor is there anything I feel I really miss if I don't have it for Thanksgiving. Wed Sep 09 10:16:02 -0700 2009 5015840 107671 queencru 2 5025084 I agree.Luckily for me -as the cook- we really do not have any family around to warrent doing the whole Thanksgiving meal (and you really do need to have all the fixin's). So we go out. I get to spend the day relaxing with my husband and kid, the kitchen stays clean, and wherever we go to eat, they usually offer something else besides just the traditional turkey (I'd rather have chicken piccata or salmon or prime rib over turkey any day, myself). It'd be different if we had a whole bunch of people- one brings the salad, one brings the potatoes, one brings dessert, etc.- and after the meal, everything gets divided up and given away so we don't have to eat turkey until Christmas, but that's not our case. And I like any day where I don't have to cook. Sat Sep 12 14:37:18 -0700 2009 5015840 322300 Michelly 2 5030529 I totally agree. Boring, bland food for the most part (turkey? Come on!) and everything is kept separate and "equal" and nothing has any real pizazz. Dishes up the wazoo, too. The only redeeming grace is the pumpkin pie, which I prefer to eat for breakfast. Mon Sep 14 22:03:17 -0700 2009 5015840 70211 Beckyleach 3 5030754 I do the same with pumpkin pie. Tue Sep 15 05:05:36 -0700 2009 5030529 11990 Janet from Richmond 3 5030954 The saving grace of Turkey is Turkey Gravy. No gravy in the world better. ANd Turkey gumbo is a rare and special treat. I make T-Day with onion pie, greens, baked sweet potatoes (never any butter,sugar,or marshmallows) and fresh cranberry sauce with only about 3/4 the sugar so it has a nice bitter flavor. Nothing boring about it at all. Tue Sep 15 07:03:55 -0700 2009 5030529 10156 Steve 4 5031141 Gravy is probably my least favorite part of Thanksgiving since it seems to be the most revered. The flavor isn't something I really enjoy, and turkey by itself is usually fairly dry. I just don't think the food is up my alley, even though most enjoy it. Tue Sep 15 08:06:09 -0700 2009 5030954 107671 queencru 5 5031164 That's how I feel and it's a tremendous amount of work. At Christmas we have beef tenderloin, scalloped potatoes, salad and veggie and it's a MUCH better meal and much less work. Tue Sep 15 08:14:09 -0700 2009 5031141 11990 Janet from Richmond 6 5031433 Why would anyone have Turkey on Thanksgiving if they didn't like it? We have Turkey, but usually smoked ribs, and a roast beef as well. P.s. If anyone's turkey is dry, something is not being prepared correctly. Tue Sep 15 09:33:09 -0700 2009 5031164 111530 gordeaux 7 5031511 Dh loves the meal (it's his favorite day of the year) and daughter loves turkey and they get all hopped up about it. It's the worse day of the year for me. And there are people who think the world will come to an end if they don't get a traditional Thanksgiving and unfortunately I married one of those people. It's not so much that the turkey is bad, but the entire meal is not worth the work. And the roaster....cleaning the %$#@!* roaster. I sit through the entire meal knowing what clean up I will be facing doesn't make it any better either. Tue Sep 15 09:58:58 -0700 2009 5031433 11990 Janet from Richmond 8 5031698 Why not assign clean up duties? I think I have to have bird day at my house this year for the first time since we did the kitchen remodel and well, we got some pretty nice stuff. I'll be doing most of the cooking, and I will NOT be cleaning up anything. And you can bet yer sweet patoot that it's gonna be cleaner than when I started. I'm talking cabinets getting wiped down, floors cleaned, oven cleaned - the whole kit-n-kaboodle. I don't mind cooking - actually, I love it. but I will NOT be cleaning up afterwards. Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 -0700 2009 5031511 111530 gordeaux 9 5031786 Assigning duties just doesn't work out. Since Dh is the only one who knows the kitchen and makes a bigger mess cleaning up, is a poor dishwasher loader and gets the all of the counters, wet, etc. He also does his share of the cooking and is the king of dirtying every pot/pan/dish in the process. It's one meal a year. My point from the beginning is that it is vastly overrated and I stand by that. And look forward to a lovely, easy, tasty Christmas dinner. And lamb at Easter. And lobster on NYE. Tue Sep 15 11:21:25 -0700 2009 5031698 11990 Janet from Richmond 10 5031929 I think other issues arise with assigning duties as well. I have some friends who put absolutely everything into the dishwasher, but I've had people try to "help" me clean up who put everything into the dishwasher and don't get that a drying rack is for clean pots, pans, and knives, not dirty ones. So I just end up doing MORE cleaning than I would otherwise if I cleaned myself. Tue Sep 15 12:16:35 -0700 2009 5031786 107671 queencru 11 5033452 Exactly. Wed Sep 16 05:06:27 -0700 2009 5031929 11990 Janet from Richmond 7 5031540 I think there are some people who do it because it's tradition. Personally, I'm not too fond of roast turkey and the fixins myself. My family has had turkey for some Thanksgivings. But most of the time, we just had some roast chicken or roast beef. In the last few years, we've been having Chinese food. Tue Sep 15 10:09:01 -0700 2009 5031433 10763 Miss Needle 7 5031616 I think what we're seeing in all the turkey hate is the fact that a lot of people don't know how to cook turkey. There's plenty of ways of making turkey that doesn't take all day and doesn't result in some shoeleather breast meat. I've brined them, smoked them, and did Julia Child's "doconstructed turkey" where you separate breast/wing from leg/thigh/back, stuff the latter, roast, then re-assemble. Done in well under two hours. I have to wonder how much of the turkey hate is actually poorly cooked turkey and how much involves just being trapped with irritating relatives during the holidays? If the latter's the case, you need to up your bourbon intake. Tue Sep 15 10:30:58 -0700 2009 5031433 12359 monkeyrotica 8 5031637 The turkey is prepared fine. I have had a plethora of what are considered "good turkeys" during my life. My issue (which it seems I am not making clear) is how much work it takes to have and clean up in order to have "good turkey" and that it's not that great of a dish. It's fine. It's harmelss. It's a hell of a lot of work. And the trimmings are no big deal either. It's not the worst meal on the planet, but for the work it takes, there is nowhere near the reward they should be for that amount of work. As a comparison....lets look at our friend the standing rib roast. Little work, lots of reward. Same with lamb chops, pork roast or even a roasted chicken. And that is before we venture into seafood. Tue Sep 15 10:37:54 -0700 2009 5031616 11990 Janet from Richmond 9 5032722 When I do a turkey - for any reason - it's butterflied, sprinkled with oregano and lime juice, put on indirect heat on a Weber kettle and is done in two hours. No mess, no fuss. I don't fix meals that give me angst, no matter how much someone whines. If they want it that badly, they can do it themselves. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Tue Sep 15 17:25:22 -0700 2009 5031637 131001 c oliver 9 5033072 Janet, I am so with you on this and I totally get what you're saying about the reward vs. the amount of work involved. About 6 years ago, my mother decided to invite all the family out for Thanksgiving (there are about 18 of us) to give everyone a break from all the hullaballoo. Previously, we all took turns having it at our houses and even with everyone bringing something it was still so much work. Well, i have to tell you that that was the MOST enjoyable Thanksgiving we had ever experienced. Our family loves to get together, we all love to eat and drink good wine, we enjoy each other's company, and that's exactly what we did. Now every Thanksgiving we choose a nice place, we all split the cost, and we enjoy a wonderful Thanksgiving with everything prepared for us, and everyone goes home happy and not overworked. It's so worth it. The thing I love about Thanksgiving is that its the only holiday that we're all in town and so everyone is together and there's no stress involved. We still do Christmas dinners and Easter dinners at each other's homes, depending on who's in town, but Thanksgiving is the holiday where we just enjoy each other's company, and enjoy the tradition of Thanksgiving. We're very thankful! And it's wonderful! Tue Sep 15 20:10:18 -0700 2009 5031637 233553 schmoopy 10 5033450 We tried going out last year and it was a disaster. And we ended up cooking at home as well as Dh had to have a turkey with leftovers and then he had to have mashed potatoes and stuffing, etc. And we ended up paying the entire meal for the family (which always happens with our family dinners). It was the worst of both worlds. Wed Sep 16 05:05:20 -0700 2009 5033072 11990 Janet from Richmond 8 5031652 I've had well-cooked turkey, but it still didn't do much for me. The last time I had Thanksgiving dinner 2 years ago, the turkey was cooked well. Nonetheless, there was nothing to do to make me really love that meal. To me, it's just going to be okay even on the best of days, and awful on the worst. I haven't been to a family Thanksgiving in years because my family doesn't care for it, so that's definitely not the issue. Tue Sep 15 10:41:54 -0700 2009 5031616 107671 queencru 5 5034240 If your turkey is dry, you're not cooking it properly. I've probably cooked a hundred turkeys in my life, and after the first few experiments, and some coaching from Mom, I have it perfect now. The breast is moist and juicy, and the dark meat is rich and succulent. I do my stuffing two ways - one in the bird, and another cooked outside in a casserole. This gives you two different types - one quite wet, and one dry and crunchy. I like to mix the two. Add parsnips, broccoli, and either sweet potatoes or mashed turnips, (plus cranberry of course), and you have a beautiful, colourful, delicious plate. Note: no green bean casserole, no sweet potatoes with marshmallow, etc. Everyone in the family loves Thanksgiving dinner, maybe because we stay away from the last two dishes mentioned... Wed Sep 16 10:12:40 -0700 2009 5031141 1104506 FrankD 6 5034299 I never said the turkey was dry- I just said if a turkey is cooked properly, I'm still underwhelmed. It's just not a meal I enjoy or go out of my way to have, regardless of the preparation. No one in my family likes it either, and I went to a friend's place a few years ago where they weren't into it much more than I was. Wed Sep 16 10:27:29 -0700 2009 5034240 107671 queencru 7 5034390 You wrote: ". The flavor isn't something I really enjoy, and turkey by itself is usually fairly dry." Pardon me for misinterpreting this as meaning your turkey is usually dry. Wed Sep 16 10:50:58 -0700 2009 5034299 1104506 FrankD 8 5034568 The yearly Turkey discussions are always so amusing - the Turkey enthusiasts just can't believe that some people just aren't that in to Turkey and the Turkey non-enthusiasts end up having to go on the defensive. I actually double checked dates just make sure this somehow wasn't an old thread. My house: Extended Family visiting - Turkey No one visiting: Standing rib roast. And I really can't understand why ANYONE would choose Turkey over a roast. Case closed. Wed Sep 16 11:43:44 -0700 2009 5034390 15250 sebetti 8 5034685 I didn't realize you were replying to something farther up the thread--- sometimes it's hard to tell. I do find that turkey is usually dry, but I've had moist turkey and still don't care for it unless it's in a sandwich with something else. Wed Sep 16 12:19:33 -0700 2009 5034390 107671 queencru 9 5034709 Midnight turkey sandwich with Hellman's and salt is the best part of Thanksgiving dinner. And I *like* the meal! :) Wed Sep 16 12:26:05 -0700 2009 5034685 127625 fern 10 5035516 Yeah. somehow the turkey flavor improves as it gets older. I spoon a little bit of the refrigerated gravy into my Hellman's. Wed Sep 16 18:00:02 -0700 2009 5034709 10156 Steve 10 5036197 I'll take an hot open-face turkey sandwich with gravy or a turkey club with extra bacon and mayo over Thanksgiving roast any day. For me, turkey is one of those meals that is better the next day. Thu Sep 17 03:57:25 -0700 2009 5034709 12359 monkeyrotica 11 5036492 Hot open-faced with mashed and gravy is wonderful. I do love some of the leftovers, including soup, pot-pie with lots of crust, sandwiches. Still, I love that T-day meal, too! Love the crispy skin and the side dishes on THE DAY, enjoy the turkey transformed into sandwiches etc after that. It's hard to believe it will be here before we know it! Thu Sep 17 07:04:29 -0700 2009 5036197 127625 fern 11 5039840 I agree. I cook T'giving every year and I love to do it even if no one appreciates it. And if your work/reward ratio is based on other people enjoying and appreciating your hard work, well, that's never going to happen especially in a family of non-cooks. (Actually my MIL does appreciate it). But what no one knows is that my reward is dinner the next day complete with mashed potato pancakes, hot turkey and gravy and whatever else wasn't finished he next day. It has, for my whole life, been my favorite dinner of the year. You can't get a great leftovers without the work of making the meal Fri Sep 18 10:17:35 -0700 2009 5036197 12513 Divamac 5 5058448 I make my gravy with bourbon and it is good. I got the idea from the picture on the bottle. Fri Sep 25 12:48:06 -0700 2009 5031141 28638 phantomdoc 2 5031312 Oh, oh, oh, but all those stars can and should shine. I love me some crispy-skinned brined turkey. How to go wrong with mashed potatoes? Moroccan spiced roasted veggies? Cranberry sauce with cloves, cinnamon, nutmeg, and orange. Divine pumpkin pie I look forward to all year. No need for bland or boring, People. Maybe some of you are making it more difficult than it needs to be? True, the bird is awkward. What about turducken, haha? Tue Sep 15 09:00:08 -0700 2009 5015840 19782 Full tummy 3 5031347 We have mashed potatoes throughout the year. Roasted turkey....yawn. Leftover turkey even bigger yawn. I make my own cranberry sauce and it's good, but the whole day of staring in the am and the 12 hour event for some turkey and fixings just isn't worth it IMO. Tue Sep 15 09:10:10 -0700 2009 5031312 11990 Janet from Richmond 4 5031399 That's my main issue. It just takes a lot of preparation for something that just doesn't turn out to be something that isn't all that spectacular. I know a lot of people start with various dishes the night before (for the 1-2pm Thanksgiving dinner) and I just don't feel like it is worth it. You can cook a wonderful Thanksgiving meal in a few hours if you aren't stuck on using all the traditional ingredients. Tue Sep 15 09:23:09 -0700 2009 5031347 107671 queencru 5 5031418 And I hate facing the leftovers and having to wrap them up, divvy them out, wash the roaster and hand was numerous serving dishes because it's great-grandmother's special dish...blah, blah, blah. That's before I tackle wine glasses and the dishes that will go into the dishwasher (which there will be 2-3 loads of). And then we get to have that same meal for the next 3 or so days (or until I have the post Thanksgiving meltdown and throw them all out in one fell swoop). Tue Sep 15 09:27:05 -0700 2009 5031399 11990 Janet from Richmond 6 5031439 I remember I came home for Christmas one year after living in Japan for about 5 months. I was home for about 9 days and wanted to eat as much as possible that wasn't available in Japan, but instead I got stuck with turkey leftovers for 3-4 days. I was crushed beyond belief. Tue Sep 15 09:34:04 -0700 2009 5031418 107671 queencru 6 5032119 But surely all the serving dishes and wine glasses have nothing to do with it being a turkey that you served... It seems that all that, which you've associated with turkey, would be required for any family celebration dinner. Tue Sep 15 13:16:55 -0700 2009 5031418 19782 Full tummy 7 5033449 The issue is that there are sooooooo many more dishes for Thanksgiving than for Christmas or Easter or other celebratory dinners. And, no, Thanksgiving is the only one with "grandma's turkey platter, grandma's mashed potato bowl, etc." And it's also the only occassion with a frightful amount of leftovers to deal with. Wed Sep 16 05:02:45 -0700 2009 5032119 11990 Janet from Richmond 8 5034747 its also one of the few that is inclusive of all american's, not just members of the majority culture/creed Wed Sep 16 12:40:47 -0700 2009 5033449 135229 thew 8 5035432 Hahahaha, Janet from Richmond, methinks you just don't like turkey.... There is no need for huge quantities of leftovers, if you buy the right size bird. They come in a vast range of sizes. There is nothing inherent to turkey, mashed potatoes, and stuffing that necessitates all these problems. Use a different platter... use a different bowl... If you just don't like turkey, that's one thing. I mean, if you cook 20 pounds of beef tenderloin, you'll have to serve it on something, serve it with something, and have lots of leftovers, too. You don't want turkey, that's fine. But, the bird's not the problem. Edit: I do concede picking the meat off the bones is annoying: Hubby looks after that, though, so I almost forgot about it. Great stock comes from those bones, though. Wed Sep 16 17:20:15 -0700 2009 5033449 19782 Full tummy 9 5036271 Dh is so afraid of not having enough leftovers that we always get a huge bird. Turkey is "okay". For that much work I want to be wowed and turkey does not wow me. And I chuck the carcass or send it home with my brother to make stock. And trust me, there is ALWAYS more leftover turkey than there is beef. Always. Thu Sep 17 05:29:22 -0700 2009 5035432 11990 Janet from Richmond 10 5046399 Um . . . Maybe your DH think you guys never have enough leftovers and buys such a big bird because you "have the post Thanksgiving meltdown and throw them all out in one fell swoop"? Honestly, the excessive leftovers are totally avoidable. In fact, since having so much left-over is an issue, maybe if you had a small bird, a small number of sides and no leftovers you would enjoy it enough that you could then do it again at some other times of the year and please everyone. Mon Sep 21 11:24:28 -0700 2009 5036271 24055 Atahualpa 11 5046446 We could have an entire extra Thanksgiving dinner and he would not think it's enough. He's one of those people who adores Thanksgiving and for me it falls under the "or worse" category of "for better or for worse" in our vows. Changes, adjustments, compromise, etc. do not work out. It's either divorce (BTDT) or tolerate Thanksgiving and I love Dh enough to tolerate it. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Mon Sep 21 11:40:59 -0700 2009 5046399 11990 Janet from Richmond 12 5046461 Maybe if your husband had to cook Thanksgiving dinner he would change his tune. :) Mon Sep 21 11:44:55 -0700 2009 5046446 12513 Divamac 13 5046469 He shares in the cooking (does the turkey, dressing and mashed potatoes). Mon Sep 21 11:46:43 -0700 2009 5046461 11990 Janet from Richmond 14 5055965 Well, shit, make a salad and let 'er rip. Stop being an enabler if you want some unsolicited advice :) Thu Sep 24 13:49:48 -0700 2009 5046469 131001 c oliver 4 5032114 Oh, I see. Well, I guess I'm different. We just don't eat mashed potatoes at all throughout the year. It's mostly brown rice, healthy stuff. So, I do look forward to the turkey dinner; I also like turkey, however, which it doesn't seem you're that fond of. I even enjoy leftover turkey, turkey casserole, creamed turkey, turkey sandwiches, turkey pot pie, etc., I like having food for a whole week afterwards and hardly having to do a bit of work to pull meals together. And the stuffing I forgot to mention... Stuffing is great, and it just doesn't go with filet mignon... Tue Sep 15 13:15:04 -0700 2009 5031347 19782 Full tummy 2 5032366 For the past several years, the stars of my family's Thanksgiving have been a ham and a huge stockpot full of homemade chicken and noodles. Thigh and leg meat cooked in the pressure cooker and picked off the bone the night before by me with the gelatin and cooking liquid saved for the gravy, hand-made noodles, all over mashed potatoes. I look forward to it every year. Tue Sep 15 14:48:21 -0700 2009 5015840 112034 spellweaver16 3 5035435 Ham, yum. Come to think of it, I made ham at Easter this year. A huge one. It was delicious. And lots of leftovers, too. Needed to be served on a platter, with scalloped potatoes, homemade apple sauce and a bunch of other dishes. No less work than serving turkey (aside, perhaps, from the brining of the turkey, if you do that -- I do.) Wed Sep 16 17:22:03 -0700 2009 5032366 19782 Full tummy 4 5036273 We generally have a ham in the frig at all times (after all, I am in Virginia). For Easter we typically have lamb chops or leg of lamb and a couple of sides. Nothing like the plethora of dishes at Thanksgiving: Turkey, two kinds of dressing, cranberry sauce, oystew stew, sweet potatoes, mashed potatoes, gravy, rolls, corn and fresh green beans. Thu Sep 17 05:31:33 -0700 2009 5035435 11990 Janet from Richmond 5 5036451 We had ham weekly when I was growing up. I wasn't aware that it was considered a holiday treat to some until I was much older. Thu Sep 17 06:48:29 -0700 2009 5036273 107671 queencru 2 5038351 Idem many Christmas dinners. (I am from Québec and while Thanksgiving is celebrated in Canada, as a traditionally Protestant holiday it is not generally big here - yes, of course there are exceptions). Nowhere is it as important up here as in the US. I can't abide bland servings of big hunks of meat and overcooked veg as "holiday" food. I don't find turkey uninteresting but as it is very, very lean, it is not the best thing to roast. It can work very well in other dishes. But since Thanksgiving is a harvest festival, you can make any nice local foods you like. In the Americas, I would include Indigenous foods (turkey is one, of course, but there are other meats), and corn, beans, squash. Thu Sep 17 18:08:25 -0700 2009 5015840 84119 lagatta 3 5039715 lagatta, Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday and my favorite day of the year, but then I'm pretty much a New England Puritan, through and through. :-) I love my home region and anything that celebrates and preserves our traditions. But I'm interested in hearing a little bit about Thanksgiving in Canada. Am I confusing it with another holiday, or isn't your Thanksgiving observed in the beginning of October? What are some of the traditional T-Day dishes that would be served in the diverse regions of beautiful Canada? Fri Sep 18 09:30:31 -0700 2009 5038351 1104013 Normandie 4 5046419 Same day as US Columbus day. The traditional foods in Ontario seem to be: Roast turkey, gravy, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, simple bread and herb stuffing (I have never encountered the range of stuffings you find in the states), pumpkin pie. There's nothing else that seems to be particularly traditional around here. Maybe in other parts of the country? Christmas is definitely the bastion of the traditional family gathering here, though. Thanksgiving passes with much less attention. Mon Sep 21 11:30:43 -0700 2009 5039715 24055 Atahualpa 4 5047380 Yes, same as your Columbus Day. Same foods as Atalhualpa said, if people make them. I know nobody, French, English or other speaking here who makes Thanksgiving Dinner, but some people do. (And if there is a day off, there will definitely be food involved, and it will of course be harvest-related now). Here in Québec, traditionally the culmination of family gatherings is New Year's Day, an important celebration among both French and Scots. There will be turkey and other foods not very different from those of New England, in New France, but there will definitely also be tourtière, which is also eaten among the large Franco-American communities in Lowell and other New England mill towns. Do hope that promised fast train (TGV) between Montréal and Boston, stopping off in Vermont and New Hampshire, actually becomes reality! Mon Sep 21 16:37:40 -0700 2009 5039715 84119 lagatta 2 5077683 Egad! I can't believe how many haters of Thanksgiving there are. I feel hugely in the minority fostering my deep love of turkey and the carbohydrate binge that accompanies it. I look forward to jamming my face full of apple-onion-celery bread stuffing, roasted garlic mashed potatoes, and copious quantities of turkey gravy every year. Then again, Thanksgiving dinner is quite an "exotic" meal for me: I usually eat some type of Asian food about 95% of the time, so having a traditional English / North American meal always feels like a real treat to me. Sun Oct 04 05:03:10 -0700 2009 5015840 75881 vorpal 3 5078552 Finally- somebody who feels the same way I do about Thanksgiving. Thank you, Vorpal! Sun Oct 04 14:28:53 -0700 2009 5077683 105625 EWSflash 4 5078701 My pleasure! It's good to know that I'm not alone on this! Sun Oct 04 15:55:35 -0700 2009 5078552 75881 vorpal 3 5096361 I totally hear you on the "Thanksgiving is exotic" thing. I grew up on Korean food, so for me, mashed potatoes was the bee's knees! Yay! Western food! Awesome! I am sick of kimchi! Of course, now that I am out of the house, and eat much more Western style food, I have become more and more nostalgic about Homestyle Korean food..... I am not the biggest fan of turkey, I actually prefer duck and a well-roasted chicken. But I do love gravy, mashed potato, stuffing, cranberry jelly, all the traditional fixings that accompany turkey, it makes you feel so warm on a cold fall evening. Mon Oct 12 00:28:29 -0700 2009 5077683 89969 moh 3 5140535 It took me a while to be able to come up with this post. I would sit through a Thanksgiving dinner from a Swanson's frozen food tray if I could have one more Thanksgiving celebration the way it was when my father was alive. Although we do enjoy a somewhat "gourmet" Thanksgiving, I feel it's so much more about the company - the family - than about the food (one day a year!) Thu Oct 29 10:53:24 -0700 2009 5077683 270888 shaogo 4 5142292 shaogo, your post is very touching. you're right -- its about the people ( mainly ;-). let's put the "thanks" back in thanksgiving! (i'm guilty of calling it turkey day, i must confess!). Fri Oct 30 05:04:37 -0700 2009 5140535 105717 alkapal 2 5098678 I so agree. Overrated doesn't begin to describe it. The traditional feast has not a single redeeming feature: roast turkey (Saharan dry or pickled-tasting, i.e. brined), stuffing (goop or sawdust), cranberry sauce (an abomination, especially the canned version), sweet potato casserole (miniature marshmallows, WTF?), green bean casserole (Depression food) and, adding insult to injury, pumpkin pie (a crime against perfectly good pie crusts). What's not to hate? I've dreaded the holiday since I was a little kid and consider myself fortunate that I've spent nearly all my adult life in a place where it's not celebrated. Mon Oct 12 20:54:08 -0700 2009 5015840 10520 carswell 3 5098855 Julia Childs said to Pepin that she loved the marshmallow version of the sweet potato. I was floored to see that. Tue Oct 13 00:57:11 -0700 2009 5098678 277493 DallasDude 4 5099022 good for her. the perfect pin to pop the foodista elitist bubble Tue Oct 13 05:50:55 -0700 2009 5098855 135229 thew 3 5099021 i'm not the hugest fan of turkey, in general - but there are other options than sand and pickle, when cooked right. and it is possible to cook it right. Tue Oct 13 05:50:06 -0700 2009 5098678 135229 thew 4 5137177 I've eaten hundreds of turkeys over the years, some of which I've had a hand in making and some others of which were prepared by expert chefs and home cooks. Only one was an experience I would care to revisit: a bird small enough to put on the rotisserie of a backyard grill and repeatedly basted with butter. But roasted turkeys at the traditional Thanksgiving/Christmas dinner? Losers all. Wed Oct 28 08:31:25 -0700 2009 5099021 10520 carswell 3 5099046 I sense from your post that you are neither deciding the menu for your Thanksgiving nor doing the cooking. All stuffing is bad, all cranberry sauce is bad, you can't bake sweet potatoes or have lost the recipe, and you are stuck with only one dessert. I say dump the breadfruit trees overboard. Tue Oct 13 06:01:07 -0700 2009 5098678 10156 Steve 3 5132890 Oh gosh, a properly brined bird is not pickled-tasting, hahaha. Does adding salt to something instantly render it pickled? Maybe you left your bird in bath for a wee bit too long??? Mon Oct 26 16:15:11 -0700 2009 5098678 19782 Full tummy 4 5136822 esp. since pickling involves...um....vinegar! Wed Oct 28 06:18:38 -0700 2009 5132890 105717 alkapal 5 5137148 Not necessarily. From www.merriam-webster.com (shouting emphasis mine): Main Entry: pick·le Pronunciation: \ˈpi-kəl\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English pykyl, pekill sauce, gravy, from or akin to Middle Dutch peeckel brine Date: 15th century 1 : a solution or bath for preserving or cleaning: as a : a BRINE or vinegar solution in which foods are preserved b : any of various baths used in industrial cleaning or processing Wed Oct 28 08:20:13 -0700 2009 5136822 10520 carswell 6 5138205 brining is understood generally not to include vinegar, or acid. we ain't talkin middle dutch, my friend. Wed Oct 28 13:47:34 -0700 2009 5137148 105717 alkapal 7 5138240 No, but pickling can involve brine (i.e. a salt solution) and not vinegar. Wed Oct 28 13:59:07 -0700 2009 5138205 10520 carswell 4 5137165 No, when the brining fad first started, I was intrigued, especially since I'm not a fan of dry, white meat. I've tried it many times over the years, following instructions from reputable sources like Judy Rodgers (Zuni Cafe) and Alice Waters (Chez Panisse), on a variety of meats and seafood. While it does mitigate the dryness, it also leaves everything tasting corned or pickled or brined (take your choice), unfresh and ultimately untasty. Wed Oct 28 08:26:39 -0700 2009 5132890 10520 carswell 5 5138213 brining, i disagree, does not render the results that you say are typical, by any means. Wed Oct 28 13:49:27 -0700 2009 5137165 105717 alkapal 6 5138250 YMMV. I've never had a brined meat I've found to be an improvement, and that includes corned beef. And I can always tell when something's been brined. Wed Oct 28 14:01:20 -0700 2009 5138213 10520 carswell 7 5138717 There is a big difference in flavour change between a brisket brined for seven plus days, in a salty solution with pickling spices, and a turkey that's been brined for four hours in salt water. There is no way any turkey I've brined tastes like it's been pickled. It's more tender, yes, it's saltier, yes, marginally so, but I have never had a single person suggest it tastes pickled. I mean, come on, a chicken boiled in salt water will taste different than one boiled in unsalted water... What is different about the brining of the turkey and other pickling is that the process the turkey undergoes has nothing to do with preservation, and so I don't think it would fall under the pickling definition. According to Wikipedia: "Pickling, also known as brining or corning, is the process of preserving food by anaerobic fermentation in brine (a solution of salt in water) to produce lactic acid, or marinating and storing it in an acid solution, usually vinegar (acetic acid)" This has nothing to do with what happens to my Thanksgiving/Christmas turkey. Wed Oct 28 16:40:45 -0700 2009 5138250 19782 Full tummy 8 5138831 I didn't say brined turkey was actually pickled but that it tastes pickled (or corned or brined, if you will). The brining as a preservative line of argument is a red herring; no one is claiming that the purpose of brining a turkey is anything other than making the meat less dry and, in some cases, to give it more flavour. I find brining changes the flavour of the meat and does so in ways I don't find appetizing. Yes, saltier. But also less fresh, less natural, a little like many cold cuts don't taste fresh or natural. It's obvious a lot of people don't mind -- may even appreciate -- the change. I'm not one of them. And as a technique for redeeming a virtually irredeemable meat, it fails. In my opinion, of course. Feel free to feel otherwise. The original poster's question is, after all, about our opinions. You're entitled to yours, just as I'm entitled to mine. Wed Oct 28 17:23:04 -0700 2009 5138717 10520 carswell 9 5139029 You've obviously never had a well-raised bird, well-prepared, despite your claims to the contrary. I roast a heritage breed every year for Thanksgiving (unbrined), and it's always succulent, with a deep, satisfying flavor. I think you simply don't like turkey. That's fine, but it's not fine to call it "irredeemable." Wed Oct 28 18:47:29 -0700 2009 5138831 11995 pikawicca 10 5139040 What kind of bird do you get? I wonder if I might be able to find it in my area (Ontario). Wed Oct 28 18:51:50 -0700 2009 5139029 19782 Full tummy 10 5139069 Sorry but there's nothing obvious about it whatsoever. I don't stint when it comes to meat; almost never buy it in a grocery store; almost always deal with butchers who source from local producers (and Quebec producers are some of the best in North America); buy free-range/organic whenever I can afford it, including the last couple of turkeys I bought. And, as an experienced and conscientious cook, I always treat meat with appropriate respect and care. But you're right, I don't like turkey. The blandest, milquetoastiest of meats. The FAIL of fowl. And, to return to the topic of this thread, way overrated. Wed Oct 28 19:01:48 -0700 2009 5139029 10520 carswell 11 5139262 Well, hey, we don't all have to like the same thing. Like you, I have generally disliked turkey. Unlike you, I discovered I liked turkey when I started brining my birds. Before that discovery, I had banished turkey from my table and replaced it with a nice capon each holiday dinner. This past Thanksgiving I ate a non-brined bird at someone else's house one night, then my own brined bird the next and was reminded of why I used to hate turkey. Wed Oct 28 20:26:48 -0700 2009 5139069 19782 Full tummy 3 5151015 You are bonkers. You have not had a properly brined turkey then because it is amazing...tender, flavorful, and far from dry. It takes a little effort, but the turkey will be amazing. Mon Nov 02 20:09:29 -0800 2009 5098678 105711 observor 2 5144462 Absolutely! I'd be perfectly happy with sausage stuffing and a spinach/apple/cranberry/almond salad, but that's not going to cut it with the family. Hours of preparation, hours of clean-up, three people cooking full tilt at the end and it should be the best meal EVER. But the traditional foods are just so not worth it. Fri Oct 30 20:38:16 -0700 2009 5015840 226378 turqmut 1 5016038 Chicken parmesan. The idea sounds good until you get a plate of naked chicken with its mushy breading floating in underseasoned sauce and rubbery mozzarella stretching out like a Teamster. The same goes for chicken francese, eggplant parm... and come to think of it, you can add penne alla vodka and much Italian-American food to that list. Wed Sep 09 08:11:35 -0700 2009 5013060 68363 JungMann 2 5031938 All of the dishes you mentioned have the potential of being awesome with the right amount of time, effort, and good ingredients. Lots of ppl make these dishes and they are mediocre, but when you have the right touch and know whet the f*** your doing in the kitchen, those meals are classic. Had some penna alla vodka a couple weeks ago...nasty...but the host and his wife thought it was the best stuff they had ever eaten...THATS why those dishes fail. Tue Sep 15 12:19:28 -0700 2009 5016038 729068 cookieluvntasha 3 5032729 Can I assume you weren't referring to JungMann when you commented on people who don't know what the *** they're doing? I'd pay to live next door to him ANY time. Tue Sep 15 17:29:13 -0700 2009 5031938 131001 c oliver 3 5032975 You're quite right, Tasha, these dishes can be a decadent riot of richness and crisp breading, yet more often than not, "Wait til you taste my Mamma's cooking" means floppy meat and string cheese. Either there are a lot of folks who don't know what they're doing in the kitchen or there are some pretty faulty recipes being passed down the line! Tue Sep 15 19:25:46 -0700 2009 5031938 68363 JungMann 3 5058556 I agree - All of those dishes do have great potential to be disatrous!! And for a while there - you certainly would know better than to ever order them in a restaurant However - when done well they are all absolutely sublime! I am very sorry Jung if you have never had the pleasure of experiencing them done correctly....really it is a great shame Fri Sep 25 13:29:08 -0700 2009 5031938 174753 NellyNel 2 5034886 Oh, Mann.. talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. Just because some people over cook roast beef until it's shoe leather (my grandmother, for instance), do you stop eating roast beef? Just because you've had a steak that's been grilled to a crisp, you don't eat steak anymore? Are there lots of crummy versions of chicken/veal/eggplant parmigiana out there? Absolutely. There's lots of crummy "everything" out there in the world. Does that mean a good chicken parmigiana is terrible? Absolutely not. I've had some wonderful ones where the sauce is fantastic, the breading is light and crisp, and the mozzarella is fresh and tasty. Wed Sep 16 13:25:01 -0700 2009 5016038 1104506 FrankD 3 5036471 I think that's the first time someone has told me, "Oh Mann," good one! When the majority of iterations of a particular dish turn out contrary to the hype, then I call it overrated. Perhaps I need to be educated in the ways of good chicken parmigiana, but living in what some would consider the capital of Italian-American cuisine, I have yet to encounter a chicken parm that compares to a decent chicken katsu, schnitzel or chicken fried chicken in terms of flavor and texture. Still, I have an open mind if you have any suggestions. Thu Sep 17 06:58:59 -0700 2009 5034886 68363 JungMann 4 5058561 Damn mann! Let me cook you some!! (I must admit my chicken parm is amazing) Fri Sep 25 13:30:37 -0700 2009 5036471 174753 NellyNel 1 5016451 Everything on the menu at "El Charro" in Tucson, AZ. Wed Sep 09 10:16:58 -0700 2009 5013060 140140 mrbigshotno.1 2 5018036 OMG, sacrilege- and you're so damn right. I've had good meals at the original downtown, the rest, meh to bad. And I'm not THAT big of a Mexican food snob. These people have not only overreached, they've partnered with Bob McMahon, for crying out loud, and no good can come from that, except into McMahon's pockets. Same with Nimbus- the new one on Tanque Verde has McMahon food. Go ahead- cry into your beer. I wish that man would retire and put himself out of our misery. Wed Sep 09 19:11:54 -0700 2009 5016451 105625 EWSflash 2 5031678 Even the Carne Seca????? And I agree about McMahon Tue Sep 15 10:51:04 -0700 2009 5016451 210452 dcdavis 1 5017456 Looks to me like y'all are pretty much picking the one thing that everyone else seems to like but you hate, which is ... reasonable. Gotta have a place to vent. So allow me to say that a lovely well-browned fluffy omelet is something I don't want to even be in the same room with. To me that egg is burnt, and burnt egg = burnt hair in my books. My perfect omelet is non-fluffy, cooked in butter, and at the most very faintly tanned in spots. I also simply do not get soufflés. Or meringue, or sweet custard; Isle Flottant is one of the most dismal desserts I can imagine. I love eggs, I adore eggs, but PLEASE only with onions, bacon, cheese, stuff like that. Okay, so I like eggnog, but that comes with booze... Wed Sep 09 15:17:53 -0700 2009 5013060 11478 Will Owen 2 5017601 Ile Flottant also mystifies me. Calorie soup. Wed Sep 09 16:14:23 -0700 2009 5017456 10156 Steve 3 5017682 Calories I don't mind. I just find meringue annoyingly vacant and sweet custard a bit nauseating, though I'll admit it's getting less so, I'm sure because my tasting abilities are waning with age; I remember my 80+ YO grandpa, the family's best cook and a real gourmand, telling me that instant mashed potatoes had now gotten so good they tasted just like fresh. Poor man; we gagged them down and faked our compliments. Wed Sep 09 16:51:48 -0700 2009 5017601 11478 Will Owen 4 5077691 I've only ever had iles flottantes twice, and concur that both times, held in the context of dessert, they felt "vacant"; however, by shifting my mindset and not thinking of them as dessert per se, I ended up enjoying them and found them to be rather a refreshing, light palate cleanser at the end of a rich meal. Sun Oct 04 05:10:00 -0700 2009 5017682 75881 vorpal 3 5033078 Calorie soup! Ha! that's great! And so spot on! Tue Sep 15 20:13:41 -0700 2009 5017601 233553 schmoopy 2 5018369 Soufflés are great when properly executed. It's Lava Cake that I wish would go the way of the Jell-o mold. I wonder if Vongerichten gets a royalty for every one Domino's sells... Wed Sep 09 22:05:10 -0700 2009 5017456 184889 blair_houghton 1 5017916 BBQ ribs that have been "bbq'd" by putting bbq sauce on them and. Hot dogs. Anything that highlights the fact that it has been made with boneless, skinless, chicken breast. <eyeroll> Anything made with "deli style" lunchmeat. Who in the WORLD marketed that garbage, and how is it even accepted as food? Wed Sep 09 18:17:22 -0700 2009 5013060 111530 gordeaux 2 5018040 "BBQ ribs that have been "bbq'd" by putting bbq sauce on them" Pay the Man. Wed Sep 09 19:12:51 -0700 2009 5017916 10156 Steve 3 5039007 LOL!!! "Pay the Man." indeed! Fri Sep 18 05:40:25 -0700 2009 5018040 105717 alkapal 1 5018123 I just don't get sun dried tomatoes . They just over power everything. Wed Sep 09 19:40:46 -0700 2009 5013060 139527 GodfatherofLunch 2 5018375 Have you tried them in chipotle? Wed Sep 09 22:06:23 -0700 2009 5018123 184889 blair_houghton 3 5019338 har de har har Thu Sep 10 09:36:22 -0700 2009 5018375 109905 laliz 4 5031684 And some Sriracha:) Tue Sep 15 10:53:30 -0700 2009 5019338 210452 dcdavis 4 5039012 laliz, you get my belly-laugh-of-the-day-appreciation award. you cracked me up. <i'm just thinking of the sun-dried tomatoes in chipotle and sriracha. that must be *some* chowhounds' dream condiment!> Fri Sep 18 05:43:00 -0700 2009 5019338 105717 alkapal 5 5039539 Oh, alkapal, you're not dissin' sriracha, are you? It's so good mixed in mayo. Fri Sep 18 08:50:13 -0700 2009 5039012 324814 nomadchowwoman 6 5039623 It makes one rockin' BLT. Fri Sep 18 09:10:29 -0700 2009 5039539 116513 linguafood 7 5039642 You got that right! Add some arugula (the greatest trend that never died!)--sublime. My lunch yesterday. Fri Sep 18 09:15:41 -0700 2009 5039623 324814 nomadchowwoman 2 5018576 ooh I agree, nasty things. Thu Sep 10 04:47:31 -0700 2009 5018123 22559 smartie 1 5018468 Shark's fin soup. This is absurdly expensive (one Toronto spot charges $68 per bowl), and I can't for the life of me understand the excitement. The shark fin is usually rubbery, and the flavours are so, er, subtle, they're hard to detect. Give me a decent bowl of hot and sour any day. Thu Sep 10 00:42:58 -0700 2009 5013060 1104506 FrankD 2 5021257 Dude, it's a mystique, not a flavor. I'd never try it in a million years for a variety of reasons, but c'mon -- there's nothing in that poor fish's fin that could flavor a soup to equal its billing. Snake oil in food form. Thu Sep 10 22:28:09 -0700 2009 5018468 130151 dmd_kc 3 5022728 I would argue that is not so much mystique as real appeal, when properly made (like any dish). Sharksfin soup appeal lies in both the texture of the fin (slightly crunchy) as well as the flavour from being cooked in a stock. The fins are very expensive as an ingredient, but the stuff that goes into the stock can also rival the fin in price. It may consist of various meat stocks and a panel of dried seafood (various with cuisine, style). Sharksfin is just as absurdly expensive as caviar I guess, although there tends to be a lot more labour involved in preparing the dish properly. A proper sharkfins may need to be braised or double boiled for a serious amount of time. Of course the quality of a dish can vary from place to place, as can the fins. There are lot of good reasons not to eat sharksfin, but when properly made, the flavour and texture are not part of those reasons. Fri Sep 11 12:28:33 -0700 2009 5021257 10076 limster 4 5022950 The thing is, the flavor is mostly due to the non-fin items that get added to the stock (I LOVE the salty ham that gets cooked in the broth) and you would think that modern food science would be able to come up with a glass-noodle-like product that replicates the texture of shark's fin. I grew up eating shark's fin every year but I no longer partake because the environmental cost just isn't worth the benefits. I think even shark's fin fans are into it more for the aura and mystique surrounding it rather than the taste or texture. Fri Sep 11 13:38:37 -0700 2009 5022728 10832 Humbucker 5 5022984 Yes -- the flavour comes from the stock, as mentioned above. Modern science has indeed come out with a sharksfin-like product -- I vaguely remember reading about fake sharksfin being a lucrative business. But those versions then to fall apart easily and won't handle a couple of days of slow cooking. Actually, I had a steamed skate wing in a Japanese place many years ago -- the chef suggested that I eat the bones -- it's not a horrible substitute and has a similar tetural appeal. Afterall they're both cartilaginous fish. I also grew up eating sharksfin, and were fortunate to have had a few that were exceptional (whole intact fin rather than loose silvers, with just the right crunchy texture) -- it's these that I speak of, not of the run of the mill renditions. But it's great to agree to disagree, we need more diverse opinions here, not less. Fri Sep 11 13:51:02 -0700 2009 5022950 10076 limster 6 5024227 as a side note - the sickest i ever got from food was from a shark's fin/ bird nest soup in thailand near the malaysian border. unfairly to the soup - i'm never going to have it again.... Sat Sep 12 07:00:13 -0700 2009 5022984 135229 thew 5 5035431 Every Asian market I have been to has a frozen imitation sharks fun product. Not interested, but it is there. Wed Sep 16 17:20:06 -0700 2009 5022950 277493 DallasDude 6 5078559 Just for clarification, you meant "frozen imitation shark's fin", right? Or are they really selling frozen imitation surfers out there? Sun Oct 04 14:35:52 -0700 2009 5035431 105625 EWSflash 7 5081256 slip of the 'i' Mon Oct 05 17:46:04 -0700 2009 5078559 277493 DallasDude 1 5018729 Brunch. Take two good meals and make one lousy one, except with a slice of cantelope and a noisy crowd. What's the point of 497 different ways of doing eggs if you can't get "scrambled" right? $24.95. Thu Sep 10 06:24:32 -0700 2009 5013060 12359 monkeyrotica 2 5020060 Come to Chicago, we'll do brunch at one of my go to spots. you'll eat every word you just wrote. But I have been to lousy brunch services and do know what you're talking about. You gotta learn how to keep focused on the seafood, chocolate covered strawberries, fresh squeezed juices and made to order waffles for dessert. And if you see a new tray of ANYTHING being brought out, go investigate. 24.95 is a bit of a stretch, but I can make it worthwhile in the 18 dollar range. Thu Sep 10 13:07:03 -0700 2009 5018729 111530 gordeaux 3 5020703 A few months ago, I went to what is supposed to be the best brunch spot in Chicago. Can't remember what the name of the place is, but it's gaudily Grandma-decorated and a bit pricey. Everything is a la carte. I had challa French toast which was okay, but I can make better food at home, get better service, and deal with less pretension. Thu Sep 10 17:17:53 -0700 2009 5020060 1091147 almond3xtract 4 5020769 who voted something like that the "best brunch spot in the city?" Thu Sep 10 17:55:15 -0700 2009 5020703 111530 gordeaux 5 5021522 Maybe it was in the back of an airline magazine. Top 10 Brunch Spots in America. Fri Sep 11 05:52:11 -0700 2009 5020769 223804 Reignking 6 5021563 IMO - Those top ten lists are part of the reason sites like Chowhound exist. So ppl can get the information they need from ppl near the source who have similar interests. I read things like that all the time and when I see the Best Pizza in Chicago, or best steakhouse in chicago, or best BBQ in Chicago, It's a joke. Quick example: I have lived in Chicago most of my life. I only get Deep Dish or Stuffed pizza when I am entertaining guests from outta town. I personally do not have any friends in the Chicago area that PREFER deep dish / stuffed piza over the Chicago thin crust pizza. But of course, every Chicago "best pizza" list in some out of town based ragazine is gonna list spots for deep dish piza. Fri Sep 11 06:07:30 -0700 2009 5021522 111530 gordeaux 7 5033097 One of our family jokes is when you go to Las Vegas and every place claims to be "Voted the Best _______ in Las Vegas"! We always have a good laugh about that. Not surprisingly, Las Vegas seems to be the king of that sort of thing. Tue Sep 15 20:20:47 -0700 2009 5021563 233553 schmoopy 7 5094347 Agree with Monkeyerotica about Brunch. Aside from the bloody mary aspect anyway. Deep dish/pan is the pizza of choice for this Chicagoan. Sat Oct 10 20:40:44 -0700 2009 5021563 1092732 Alan N 8 5140559 We love brunch when we have it at home. Sadly, (it might just be dumb luck) brunches had at restaurants four stars (and none) have been 80% poor. Brunch's redeeming factor for us: Booze! Thu Oct 29 11:01:19 -0700 2009 5094347 270888 shaogo 9 5146318 See you at your place, 10:30? Probably should drag monkeyrotica along too. Sun Nov 01 04:09:57 -0800 2009 5140559 1092732 Alan N 2 5020700 After reading Tony B's brunch expose in Kitchen Confidential, I am fine with never going to a brunch again. Thu Sep 10 17:16:27 -0700 2009 5018729 1091147 almond3xtract 1 5019500 Lobster. Nothing special about it. Thu Sep 10 10:22:00 -0700 2009 5013060 223804 Reignking 2 5020065 Other than the fact that it looks like a cockroach? Thu Sep 10 13:09:20 -0700 2009 5019500 116638 southernitalian 1 5019511 Pesto = Irish Spring soap Thu Sep 10 10:24:39 -0700 2009 5013060 116638 southernitalian 2 5023591 Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Fri Sep 11 18:47:31 -0700 2009 5019511 105625 EWSflash 2 5027673 now, I wasn't going to add my two cents, because I figured that with some many foods there is so much room for error and for the possibility that the eater didn't get a good version (I used to hate feta cheese also, just to give one example, until I tasted a very high quality, well made version)... until I read this. Pesto YES! and compared to a soap I can't stand to boot! Thank you. Sun Sep 13 21:45:27 -0700 2009 5019511 10158 susancinsf 2 5030002 OMG Are you trying to ruin it for all us pesto lovers? In a weird way I see what you're saying, but it's also so wrong, so wrong. Mon Sep 14 18:08:01 -0700 2009 5019511 19782 Full tummy 1 5019606 Any deconstructed meal If I want a Niceoise salad, I want the real deal, i don't want a half empty plate with a piece of tuna, 2 haricots, half an hard boiled egg and a swirl of vinaigrette on top (with no lettuce in sight) like some trendy restaurants love to do Thu Sep 10 10:54:17 -0700 2009 5013060 158026 westaust 2 5019738 B-b-but that's a playful homage to the classic nicoise! I bet you'd just hate their deconstructed bread, where what you get is a small cup of warm water, a cake of yeast, some flour, and salt. Thu Sep 10 11:32:09 -0700 2009 5019606 12359 monkeyrotica 2 5021452 i make a "deconstructed pesto" on pasta sometimes. very tasty Fri Sep 11 04:56:19 -0700 2009 5019606 135229 thew 1 5020411 braised short ribs - I don't get why everyone goes gaga over it. I'd venture to say that any similar cut of meat braised in any liquid with some kind of seasoning tastes damn good - beef, pork, chicken, any part of the animal that can withstand long cooking also, lobster bisque Thu Sep 10 15:17:09 -0700 2009 5013060 10401 soniabegonia 2 5021167 Gonna disagree here. That piece of meat brings a ton of flavor and has to be cooked that way to be tender; and done right it's nearly spoonable. Have you tried the one at Roaring Fork? I had it last weekend. I want to do it again this weekend, but that'd be too much. Thu Sep 10 21:29:39 -0700 2009 5020411 184889 blair_houghton 3 5022129 Oh, I agree it's good. yeah, it's damn good, but I don't understand people going on and on about how tender the meat is, it melts in your mouth, etc etc... of course it's tender, it's been braised for 3 hours! And anyway, some restaurants overdo it with the braising, IMO. I still want something to chew on and don't want it completely falling apart. Fri Sep 11 09:30:02 -0700 2009 5021167 10401 soniabegonia 4 5022180 This is my problem with ribs that are "fall apart tender." I prefer mine with a little bite to them, not a spongy mass of disintegrating flesh. I'll save that for when I turn into a zombie, thank you very much. Fri Sep 11 09:46:19 -0700 2009 5022129 12359 monkeyrotica 5 5023584 Amen to that, fellow chowhound. If I pick up a piece of rib and the bone comes clean off the meat it makes me SO angry that somebody boiled the suckers to kingdom come. And I do steam my ribs over a big fat wad of herbs from the garden (thyme/marjoram/savory/oregano) but so help me God I don't overdo it and water never touches those ribs. Except as steam. Only until they start to get tender and yummily herb-infused. Then I finish them on the grill. Fri Sep 11 18:43:42 -0700 2009 5022180 105625 EWSflash 6 5023738 The OP was talking about short ribs, not spare ribs (or beef ribs). I've never seen anyone eat short ribs by hand. Agree with you on spare ribs, but agree with the OP on short ribs - they need a lot of braising to break down the connective tissue, but that collagen makes the sauce thick and unctuous. Fri Sep 11 20:13:40 -0700 2009 5023584 1104506 FrankD 7 5024510 Oops- thanks for the correction. I was reading from the bottom up, and clearly decided to shoot my mouth off before I read the first ribs post. You're right about the short ribs needing something besides your hands. I've overcooked those, too and been very sorry I did. Sat Sep 12 09:32:46 -0700 2009 5023738 105625 EWSflash 8 5031711 I made Short Ribs last night for the first time (actually I started on Sunday). I and my guests went totally GaGa. Damn, I'm good! Tue Sep 15 11:01:36 -0700 2009 5024510 210452 dcdavis 2 5022035 I LOVE lobster; I have NEVER had a good lobster bisque. The last time I had it was at a very grand restaurant. My friend insisted I order it, insisted; I ordered a cup. It arrived, looking like a very thin caramel sauce--no lobster in sight, as is always the case. But the worst was--it tasted like caramel. Really. Once I mentioned to a dining companion that lobster bisque never has lobster in it. "Of course," he said, "lobster bisque is not supposed to have lobster meat in it. It's meant to be the essence of lobster. If you want lobster meat," he sniffed, "order chowder." Indeed. Fri Sep 11 09:00:05 -0700 2009 5020411 324814 nomadchowwoman 3 5037457 Your friend has it almost right. Lobster bisque is pureed. So there's meat in it, but not chunks. But it should taste like lobster, not caramel. Lobster soup or stock is made with the shells only, no meat. And lobster stew or chowder, should have big chunks of meat. Thu Sep 17 12:43:31 -0700 2009 5022035 1102996 LobsterQueen 4 5037714 Oh, he was usually right about such things--and eager to rid me of my wrongheadedness. After this thread, I looked up a recipe for bisque in Jasper White's Lobster at Home. While it looked like it might be very good, I probably won't make it myself as I'd much rather have the lobster meat (in chunks or whole) in so many other preparations. I love lobster chowders. However, I'd try bisque in a restaurant again, I guess, if someone gave me a good tip. Chances are I've just never had a good one, not that they don't exist. Funny thing is, I've almost never seen it on a menu in Maine, where we vacation every couple of years, and I've always wondered about that. Thu Sep 17 13:52:41 -0700 2009 5037457 324814 nomadchowwoman 3 5039024 for lobster bisque, you gotta talk to our fellow chowhound, hae young, who must be the lobster bisque champ by now. Fri Sep 18 05:48:51 -0700 2009 5022035 105717 alkapal 4 5039356 I have. The process sounds so angst-ridden! Or angst-creating. Fri Sep 18 07:56:04 -0700 2009 5039024 324814 nomadchowwoman 5 5039394 seriously! LOLOL! Fri Sep 18 08:07:46 -0700 2009 5039356 105717 alkapal 2 5031695 I made it last night for the first time (actually I started on Sunday). I and my guests went totally GaGa. Damn, I'm good! Tue Sep 15 10:57:13 -0700 2009 5020411 210452 dcdavis 1 5021269 American bacon. Shut the &%$*#@! up about bacon all the time. Soooo tired of its elevation to the pinnacle of man's ability to create foodstuffs. I liked it a lot when I was a kid, and I can still eat a piece or two, sliced thin and fried shatteringly crisp, served alongside a couple of eggs and toast. But this chewy, over-cured, over-salted, over-peppered, over-billed "artisan" crap showing up tough, stringy and just plain unappetizing on a salmon sandwich that costs $12? Or ordering a $8 bowl of New England clam chowder that tastes like smoked-pork cream sauce? Keep it, please. Bacon makes everything better? You need to develop a palate that extends beyond salt and smoke, my friend. Thu Sep 10 22:36:44 -0700 2009 5013060 130151 dmd_kc 2 5021421 People use bacon in clam chowder? WTF? You're supposed to use unsmoked, uncured salt pork or lard. Otherwise you end up with smokeporkcreamsauce. Fri Sep 11 04:18:51 -0700 2009 5021269 12359 monkeyrotica 3 5021526 I had in RI last month -- loved it... Fri Sep 11 05:53:17 -0700 2009 5021421 223804 Reignking 3 5021568 mmmmmmmmmmmm.... smokeporkcreamsauce. Fri Sep 11 06:10:57 -0700 2009 5021421 111530 gordeaux 4 5023516 I had a long correspondence about this - OK, argument, then - via snail mail (this was ca. '79, you see) with the food writer John Thorne, who had said in his Simple Cooking newsletter that bacon was all wrong for beans. I don't remember if the subject of chowder came up, but I'll imagine it did because I love it there too. What we agreed on was that to the Yankee taste bacon is all wrong because it makes the dish taste smoky, while to the Southern taste bacon is essential because... it makes the dish taste smoky! I do love salt pork, and will happily suck up chowder or pea soup or baked beans made with it, but I think smoky is just a bit better. Fri Sep 11 18:04:36 -0700 2009 5021568 11478 Will Owen 4 5033104 Gordeaux, you crack me up! Tue Sep 15 20:24:36 -0700 2009 5021568 233553 schmoopy 4 5047595 Braveaux, Gordeaux. Mon Sep 21 18:02:33 -0700 2009 5021568 21169 DC in DC 3 5023618 My mother's clam chowder had bacon in it, but not a lot, and it was the perfect accent for the clams and corn and everything. Little pieces, fried and drained. No smokeporkcreamsauce, it was CLAM chowder. And damn good. She didn't use the "artisanal" bacon because in the '60s there wasn't any. Fri Sep 11 19:01:06 -0700 2009 5021421 105625 EWSflash 4 5023748 My wife still makes it that way - a nice creamy chowder with lots of clams, and as a finishing garnish, she crumbles a piece of crispy bacon over each bowl. And, because she doesn't add any salt during cooking, the finished product doesn't come out over-salted. Fri Sep 11 20:17:36 -0700 2009 5023618 1104506 FrankD 2 5039030 """""Bacon makes everything better? You need to develop a palate that extends beyond salt and smoke, my friend."""" lynnlato, did you see this? did you SEE THIS HERESY?? Fri Sep 18 05:51:04 -0700 2009 5021269 105717 alkapal 1 5023506 For me it's pad thai. I always thought of it as the standard choice for people who weren't familiar with Thai food, but then realized even my most adventurous friends in dining often order it and love it. So I am starting to think it's just me. I'll second the macaroni and cheese nomination and also throw in prosciutto and melon (together). Fri Sep 11 18:01:29 -0700 2009 5013060 113376 Olallieberry 2 5024230 it's ubiquitous in thailand, and not just for the falangs. Sat Sep 12 07:01:37 -0700 2009 5023506 135229 thew 3 5039050 thew, do you mean the "ferengs" http://www.scopa.ca/travelogue/vegas/ferengi.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi ? tee hee. Fri Sep 18 05:57:50 -0700 2009 5024230 105717 alkapal 4 5039118 "never pay for bolognese when you're eating pad thai" 127th rule of acquisition Fri Sep 18 06:26:59 -0700 2009 5039050 135229 thew 5 5039231 good one! here are a few more: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition Fri Sep 18 07:13:28 -0700 2009 5039118 105717 alkapal 2 5142437 Prosciutto and melon is not right! Fri Oct 30 06:23:02 -0700 2009 5023506 116638 southernitalian 3 5142699 Good one! I love proscuiutto -I love melon....but I never got the combo thing - ever! Fri Oct 30 08:04:07 -0700 2009 5142437 174753 NellyNel 1 5023572 I nominate creamed spinach. I am still trying to decide if it is a waste of cream or a waste of spinach. Fri Sep 11 18:39:28 -0700 2009 5013060 221285 therealdoctorlew 2 5024165 Creamed spinach? With salt and loads of Tabasco, it and lobster bisque (trashed elsewhere above), would be parts of my last meal. Sat Sep 12 06:15:49 -0700 2009 5023572 57170 Veggo 2 5026712 Creamed spinach is a gift from God. Sun Sep 13 13:22:50 -0700 2009 5023572 92744 invinotheresverde 3 5094354 invinotheresverde, that is hilarious. You are right. Sat Oct 10 20:50:58 -0700 2009 5026712 1092732 Alan N 1 5024420 Crab legs and lobster. Yes, I am serious. Good fresh Gulf shrimp beat them both any day. Sat Sep 12 08:47:45 -0700 2009 5013060 12296 steakman55 2 5024631 The brownie sundae Sat Sep 12 10:36:35 -0700 2009 5024420 273008 mymomisthebestcook 2 5026900 Ever had Dungeness crab that came out of the water that morning? Or New England lobster, not the pallid-Florida imitator? And I love Gulf shrimp. Sun Sep 13 15:25:07 -0700 2009 5024420 131001 c oliver 2 5029120 Well thats just like, your opinion man. /thedude. Mon Sep 14 12:22:24 -0700 2009 5024420 202497 MattInNJ 3 5029870 Bwah! Now you've got me in the mood for a White Russian (which may indeed be an overrated beverage- I couldn't say since I probably haven't had one since 1982- but it does sound good at this moment, for whatever reason.) Lobster claws rule, btw!!! (I could do without the tails, myself) Mon Sep 14 17:17:16 -0700 2009 5029120 12713 TongoRad 2 5034907 I have to agree with you on lobster, I just don't get it. I much prefer crawfish or any seafood to lobster. Wed Sep 16 13:33:40 -0700 2009 5024420 154901 roro1831 1 5024663 I disagree with every overrated dish in this thread except Westaust's deconstructed stuff. Sat Sep 12 10:53:01 -0700 2009 5013060 146613 Evilbanana11 1 5025253 My nomination is cedar planked salmon. I spent the better part of a summer searching for a cedar plank. Prepared it by soaking it and had my salmon with fresh dill rubbed with olive oil, grilled it and it tasted like -- salmon that had been kept in a cedar chest, like salmon combined with summer lake house. I'm not sure what I was expecting. I love wood-smoked food in general, but cedar reminds me of moth repellents, which it's used for. As for chicken marbella, I never used the brown sugar called for in the chicken marbella recipe b/c I tend to avoid sugar except when it's necessary (like in baking), and it's not so bad. Sat Sep 12 16:07:11 -0700 2009 5013060 44876 Fuser 1 5026251 Chocolate anything. I like a nice Hershey's Kiss once in a while, or a nice chocolate cake. But some people just seem to soil themselves in ecstasy at the though of chocolate. These same people tend to talk about their love of chocolate in sexual terms. I respectfully submit that they've been doing it wrong, if they think chocolate is better than sex. Sun Sep 13 09:11:39 -0700 2009 5013060 12359 monkeyrotica 2 5026391 Agreed. Sun Sep 13 10:18:26 -0700 2009 5026251 105625 EWSflash 2 5026417 I'm with you, but this is obviously a taste/taste buds thing. Like you, I know people who just go crazy for chocolate, but I can never take more than a bite of any chocolate dessert. Sun Sep 13 10:29:12 -0700 2009 5026251 324814 nomadchowwoman 2 5026499 I think they go together pretty well. Sun Sep 13 11:16:48 -0700 2009 5026251 57170 Veggo 3 5026905 I'm not a chocolate fan but that combo has always been a winner for me. Sun Sep 13 15:26:30 -0700 2009 5026499 131001 c oliver 2 5026628 If a Hershey's Kiss represents your idea of chocolate, it's quite understandable that you'd think it's overrated. It's still definitely not better than sex if you're doing it correctly like you said tho. If you were to say Hershey's Chocolate is overrrated, I think you'd get 100% agreement. It's brown wax with a bit of sweetness. If you've ever had some of the European stuff, wow. Smooth as sillk. Sun Sep 13 12:34:55 -0700 2009 5026251 111530 gordeaux 3 5027824 I was just using the Hershey's as a point of reference. I've had some excellent Belgian chocolates, the kind with the obscene amounts of butter fat. Rich. Tasty. Still doesn't do it for me. But then again, I have a meat-tooth not a sweet-tooth. Mon Sep 14 03:27:28 -0700 2009 5026628 12359 monkeyrotica 4 5028195 Meat tooth...sweet tooth. I love that and am stealing it. I think 99.9% (this is an approximation, people) of ANYTHING sweet is overrated. Mon Sep 14 07:41:28 -0700 2009 5027824 131001 c oliver 2 5026903 not better than - better with Sun Sep 13 15:25:42 -0700 2009 5026251 135229 thew 2 5138152 You mean it's not? Wed Oct 28 13:33:37 -0700 2009 5026251 116495 Avalondaughter 1 5026295 crabcakes. it is very rare that i meet a crabcake that is any good. now, a good one is great, but the ones everyone else orders and devours off of hors d'oeuvres trays are bleh. Sun Sep 13 09:33:01 -0700 2009 5013060 122384 jpmcd 2 5027613 Crabcakes that are mostly bread crumbs, mustard and red bell pepper -- what on Earth is red bell pepper doing paired with something as delicate as crab? Even worse is when they cheap out further with green bell pepper. Gack. Just throw the whole thing in the trash, because it's ruined. Though just last night at a wedding they had some rather fishy ones made with all special and claw meat. Though they had a pretty high starch ratio, it balanced the heavier flavor of the claw and turned out rather nicely. Decent compromise, I thought. Sun Sep 13 21:04:04 -0700 2009 5026295 130151 dmd_kc 3 5027629 I think "compromise" will be an operative word, for the next century or so. Sun Sep 13 21:14:01 -0700 2009 5027613 57170 Veggo 3 5027825 Yeah, crabcakes when done poorly are an abomination. The best crab cake I ever had was about a half pound of lump crabmeat, no filler AT ALL, held together with a little mayo binder and dusted with Old Bay. Mon Sep 14 03:29:41 -0700 2009 5027613 12359 monkeyrotica 2 5032728 Being from the DC area we have a lot of good crab cakes around here. On the flipside, we also have a lot of menus that just throw them on because it's the region. When they are good, they are amazing, when they are pretty bad with lots of filler, they're worthless to get. I think price on this dish often does determine quality. Tue Sep 15 17:28:52 -0700 2009 5026295 18011 Jacey 2 5076074 I grew up in Maryland, so to me crabcakes are comfort food (as are steamed crabs with Old Bay). Having said that, I rarely order them off menus because they are usually so bad and disappointing. It does amaze me how often people swear a restaurant has "great crab cakes", and they are a horrible imitation of the real thing. I tend to just make these at home. Sat Oct 03 06:01:06 -0700 2009 5026295 246323 mountaincachers 1 5026463 I agree with creamed spinach....Yuck!!! I will add cilantro to the list. Can't stand the stuff! Finally, I nominate chicken-fried steak. I know I'll get flamed for this, but before you tell me, "But you haven't had 'good' cfs," yes I have, several times (allegedly) when I lived "down south", and I still don't get it. Sun Sep 13 10:53:47 -0700 2009 5013060 226942 al b. darned 1 5028199 Beef borgenwhatever Duck a'l'orange stew that's too thick anything that tries too hard takeaway pizza when I remember real pizza goulash tagliatelli and carbonara Coc au vin I hate the duck because I hate sweet and savoury, but all of these dishes are usually go-tos for people who don't seem to really like food. I've seen many of them done well and properly on TV (and it's usually completely different). Chicken Chasseur avoids the list because I've had a great example. Man, I'm going to make a separate topic. Mon Sep 14 07:42:39 -0700 2009 5013060 180623 Soop 2 5028230 Now that I make Hazan's tagliatelli with carbonara, I also won't order it.. But don't you think that's probably true of a lot of dishes? Mon Sep 14 07:51:32 -0700 2009 5028199 131001 c oliver 3 5028318 Yeah, just created a hefty topic about food done wrong :) You got a link for your recipe? I'd like to compare it to the rick stien one Mon Sep 14 08:17:42 -0700 2009 5028230 180623 Soop 4 5029907 Here ya go with the carbonara (I use bacon cause I don't have an affordable source for pancetta and I don't think it suffers): http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/recipe.cgi?r=157958 Here's the taglitelle - scroll down but don't miss the Bolognese (I last made a quintuple recipe of it!): http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2008/01/classic-cookbooks-marcella-hazans-homemade-tagliatelle-bolognese-meat-sauce-recipe.html Mon Sep 14 17:28:05 -0700 2009 5028318 131001 c oliver 5 5030734 Ah! That's fantastic! I feel like I have such an affinity with that chef, I'm definitely going to seek her out! Just small things, like insisting on chuck steak rather than mincemeat, cooking the ragu for 4 hours, no water added to the pasta, making the pasta on the work surface... All of these things I enjoy doing (I feel like I'm doing it "properly" or at least to my taste). I've never understood why water need be added to fresh pasta, and although I've picked up some great tips already, I tend to crack the eggs right into a pile of flour, and kind of beat them in with my fingers quite quickly. I don't think it suffers from not being pre-beaten. But I didn't know about divinding into 6. What I tended to do is pass the whole thing through, and when it becomes so long as to be unmanageable, I divide it into half, or 3 depending. I like that because it straightens the ends. But thanks loads for the second link! *edit* Good lord, I think I have a new favorite chef O__O Tue Sep 15 04:32:47 -0700 2009 5029907 180623 Soop 1 5028847 I thought of another overrated dish (another thread prompted me). Corn on the cob. It's only purpose in life is to give butter another outlet and for my butter cravings I prefer some good bread. Mon Sep 14 10:55:21 -0700 2009 5013060 11990 Janet from Richmond 2 5029016 Ha! Speak for yourself. Corn on the cob with butter and salt is one of the best things in the world. Can't believe the season's almost over...... Mon Sep 14 11:50:02 -0700 2009 5028847 116513 linguafood 2 5029141 Wow. I've been eating cotc a LOT lately since it's been incredible. NO butter, NO salt, NO pepper. Just corn, and fire. Awesome sugar sweet these days. Mon Sep 14 12:31:11 -0700 2009 5028847 111530 gordeaux 3 5029179 Olathe sweet corn, plus the previously trashed creamed spinach, caviar, and lobster bisque, and maybe a couple Hudson Valley duck livers, would round out my perfect last meal. Mon Sep 14 12:41:07 -0700 2009 5029141 57170 Veggo 4 5029910 Lordy, that sounds good, doesn't it? Ooh wee. Mon Sep 14 17:29:10 -0700 2009 5029179 131001 c oliver 3 5029202 That's how I eat my corn as well. Think it's one of the best things out there. Seriously, I think the title of this thread should be changed to Dishes that I Don't like that Everybody seems to love. Mon Sep 14 12:49:14 -0700 2009 5029141 10763 Miss Needle 4 5029250 Oh yeah! Never had any of those threads before '-) Mon Sep 14 13:00:58 -0700 2009 5029202 116513 linguafood 5 5029288 Of course. I guess the OP used this wording to elicit more responses -- or to not be repetitive. : ) Mon Sep 14 13:12:20 -0700 2009 5029250 10763 Miss Needle 4 5029914 I think there already is one :) Mon Sep 14 17:29:49 -0700 2009 5029202 131001 c oliver 2 5030009 Sorry to say, but, I disagree. Excellent corn on the cob can be enjoyed with no butter or salt, though butter and salt are, admittedly, hard to resist. Mon Sep 14 18:10:54 -0700 2009 5028847 19782 Full tummy 2 5030539 Oh, you haven't tasted Silver Queen corn, picked at the peak of perfection and rushed to the pot, and then piled on the table. It's so damned good (sweet, but with a true "corn" flavor, as well) that we don't even NEED butter. Mon Sep 14 22:07:33 -0700 2009 5028847 70211 Beckyleach 3 5030756 Yes I have. I don't have a sweet tooth and find corn either flavorless (out of season) or cloying (in season). What's worse is I love black beans and in recent years it's been the trend to muck up black beans with corn (in salsas, salads, and southwestern/Mexican dishes in general). Tue Sep 15 05:08:16 -0700 2009 5030539 11990 Janet from Richmond 4 5031424 -Pho. -Mousse. -Cheesecake. -Any absurdly large dessert concoction that people - especially girls - seem to go crazy for (brownie pizza, or "pizzookie" or whatever they call it). -Any ice-cream that needs "mix-ins" to make it taste good Are these things bad? No, but I just don't get why people groan in ecstasy over them. Also: - Any and all Mexican restaurant in Phoenix, Az. People go and and on about them and they always end up serving some disappointing deep-fried beans-and-iceberg-lettuce-and-chedder-cheese-glob. Tue Sep 15 09:29:11 -0700 2009 5030756 103888 anakalia 5 5078631 Not true about the Hispanic restaurants in Phoenix. Absolutely not true. Sun Oct 04 15:24:13 -0700 2009 5031424 247986 JerryMe 6 5078672 Anakalia - Maybe you don't like Phoenix or maybe you don't like Mexican food, but really, All Hispanic food is not the gloppy, icky weird stuff that you've described. Maybe you're ordering wrong?? Sun Oct 04 15:42:29 -0700 2009 5078631 247986 JerryMe 1 5034114 Overrated dishes for me are: -duck confit. every time I try this I feel like to just go get Cantonese roast duck instead -Philly cheese steak, most ones I've had were disappointing -boiled seafood platter. signature dish at fish shack to mid-scale seafood restaurants/chains. Lastly, since I live in Atlanta. Almost all the signature Southern cuisine dishes (Fried chicken, shrimp & grits, BBQ. etc.) when elevated to gourmet dish at upscale restaurants, and calling it (lots of places do this) the best xxx in the city. Wed Sep 16 09:35:46 -0700 2009 5013060 68634 Dio Seijuro 2 5036508 I don't know if it's overrated, but I haven't had a great cheesesteak either...probably because most places are cheapos! Still looking for one. Thu Sep 17 07:10:24 -0700 2009 5034114 105711 observor 1 5035064 Sushi, enough said Pad thai thin crust pizza with stupid toppings (CPK and its clones) Artichoke-spinach dip Cheesy garlic bread Starbucks-type coffee (especially iced) Tim Horton's (the Toronto board knows what I think of them) "molecular gastronomy" (sorry, I don't wish to pay for foam in my pint of beer, why would I want to pay for it on my plate too) Asian anything thrown into the menu of non-Asian chains Any food you can buy frozen in a bulk pack at Sam's Club (why would I go to a restaurant and pay a premium for that crap?) Cold Stone/Marble Slab Creamery Wed Sep 16 14:39:53 -0700 2009 5013060 30620 TexSquared 2 5035370 Sushi overrated? Pad thai? Really depends where you get that stuff, tex. Wed Sep 16 16:50:54 -0700 2009 5035064 116513 linguafood 3 5036497 I haven't had good sushi in a very long time. There's a vast ocean of difference, and once you've eaten good sushi, you can't go back. Thu Sep 17 07:05:23 -0700 2009 5035370 180623 Soop 4 5036626 Well, for one thing, I wouldn't say 'sushi' is one dish. Also, the discussion seems to have somehow moved away from 'overrated dishes'. But maybe it's just me. Thu Sep 17 08:05:52 -0700 2009 5036497 116513 linguafood 5 5037434 Quite agree with you that it depends on where you get it. Heard a lot of good reviews for a place on Spadina, went there for their "all you can eat" - it was awful. On the other hand, I frequent two places - one is Scarborough, one in Richmond Hill - that have great sushi/sashimi at quite reasonable prices. Follow your palate, not the hype! Thu Sep 17 12:32:22 -0700 2009 5036626 1104506 FrankD 5 5038993 Well, I'm wary of paying a lot for sushi now in case it doesn't live up to my expectations. And I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly what the difference is. And while there are many types of sushi, I never order maki rolls or sashimi, I always order at least two tuna nigiri and usually some other nigiri that took my fancy. I ordered the special platter once at my (now gone) favorite sushi place, and found that I really enjoyed the eel and squid, which I didn't think I would. Having had them since, they were nowhere near close; even the tuna nigiri I've had doesn't quite fit. do you not think that counts as over-rated? Maybe I've gone off on a tangent. btw, this was the place http://www.itchybristol.co.uk/review.cfm/4/183790/Bristol-City-Guide/review/Sukoshi Fri Sep 18 05:34:16 -0700 2009 5036626 180623 Soop 1 5036536 Creme brulee. Every restaurant seems to have it now -- am I supposed to be impressed by the candied sugar on top? And for $5-6? Please. And while in Spain, crema catalan? It's the same thing! Thu Sep 17 07:23:40 -0700 2009 5013060 223804 Reignking 2 5036853 Ha! It's been a long time since I've seen a wedding gift list that didn't have a creme brulee torch on it. I have yet to meet anyone who's ever used theirs more than once. Particularly ridiculous since you can accomplish the same thing with the broiler in your oven. Thu Sep 17 09:15:45 -0700 2009 5036536 12359 monkeyrotica 3 5036885 i've used mine more than one - i find it is much easier to get right with it, than with the broiler Thu Sep 17 09:25:02 -0700 2009 5036853 135229 thew 3 5036902 Right, buy a torch at a Sur la Table or one of the many supply purveyors and you will spend at least 30 bucks. The torch will be small and useless. However, go to a hardware store and buy the bernzomatic canister for less than 5. It will literally last forever and can be used for so much more (like the wonderful crust on a spiral ham). Thu Sep 17 09:31:52 -0700 2009 5036853 277493 DallasDude 4 5036980 Ooooh. I gotta get one of those. I'm partial to salmon nigiri that's flamed ever so slightly. My brûlée torch is useless. Thu Sep 17 09:55:05 -0700 2009 5036902 116513 linguafood 4 5037761 It also does a number on those nasty weeds growing between the sidewalk cracks. Thu Sep 17 14:04:45 -0700 2009 5036902 12359 monkeyrotica 4 5039285 I have one from the hardware store, works like a dream...... Fri Sep 18 07:32:25 -0700 2009 5036902 124908 jeanmarieok 4 5039299 or the bernzOmatic can also be used for cleaning the ice from your steps in the winter! ;-). Fri Sep 18 07:38:19 -0700 2009 5036902 105717 alkapal 3 5037108 My torch gets more use as the ultimate cigar lighter for my husband than as a kitchen utensil for me. Thu Sep 17 10:40:38 -0700 2009 5036853 15250 sebetti 4 5037786 i'm laughing because I own three, one [she says sheepishly] I bought myself, one Mom gave me as a gift because she figured I always appreciate a new kitchen gadget, another given to me by a friend thinking the same way. The danged thing (the only one ever opened) never worked on creme brulee. Thu Sep 17 14:11:23 -0700 2009 5037108 324814 nomadchowwoman 3 5038044 Oh, I've used mine many a time, surprise, surprise. The oven takes so long to get hot enough, and if I'm just making the brulée for two (which is typical), then using the oven is a waste of electricity, in my mind. I can see using the oven if I had a whole pan of crème brulée to broil. So, ya, I use it. Thu Sep 17 15:46:09 -0700 2009 5036853 19782 Full tummy 4 5038084 But, you do use your oven to bake the little devils, right? Thu Sep 17 16:06:52 -0700 2009 5038044 277493 DallasDude 5 5038891 The one time I did make the stuff, I just baked it, then switched on the broiler. But yeah, electric ovens aren't really designed for brulee. Go gas or GTFO. Fri Sep 18 03:22:13 -0700 2009 5038084 12359 monkeyrotica 5 5040656 Yes, but who wants to eat a freshly baked crème brulée. They're supposed to be chilled prior to serving, and then the brulée done at the last moment. This results in a coolish interior. Fri Sep 18 15:05:52 -0700 2009 5038084 19782 Full tummy 6 5041825 Exactly. I'd never made it until a few years ago. Used a CI recipe. Perfect just the way you describe. Sat Sep 19 07:52:44 -0700 2009 5040656 131001 c oliver 1 5038388 With a few exceptions, pizza. Thu Sep 17 18:29:54 -0700 2009 5013060 1104013 Normandie 2 5039202 Pizza is a wonderful food, but unfortunately most versions I've had outside Italy are either a greasy mess or pieces of cardboard. Fri Sep 18 07:04:26 -0700 2009 5038388 84119 lagatta 3 5039656 Yes, I think that's really my point, lagatta, and I probably didn't say it clearly enough, so TY. I have this feeling that many of us who care enough to make it from scratch at home make it pretty well, actually, and probably lots of us could name that special special restaurant/pizza place that does it right, with careful prep, fresh and balanced ingredients, respect for the art and tradition of pizza. I feel that you understood what my frustration is, which I guess is really about pizza purveyors here, rather than the food itself. Sometimes it seems like it's only considered a device for the delivery of saturated fat and sodium, as popular outlets look for more places in which to stuff the generic cheese. But a good, crisp crust (or even a good, yeasty deep-dish pie, if that's one's preference); a restrained hand with a true sauce, fresh basil and "real" cheese, and then the highest quality of whatever else one chooses to have on it--done right it's really quite healthful and satisfying to the tummy *and* the senses. You are right. Fri Sep 18 09:18:43 -0700 2009 5039202 1104013 Normandie 1 5039058 foie gras is overrated. caviar is overrated. Fri Sep 18 06:02:09 -0700 2009 5013060 105717 alkapal 2 5039088 Any specific type of foie gras you're referring to? Fri Sep 18 06:12:08 -0700 2009 5039058 10076 limster 3 5039232 um, fatted goose liver? Fri Sep 18 07:14:07 -0700 2009 5039088 105717 alkapal 4 5040710 Most of the versions in the US tend to be fattened duck liver. Have you tried the Alsatian goose ones? Fri Sep 18 15:25:08 -0700 2009 5039232 10076 limster 5 5041536 i've had proper foie gras here and in hungary. plus, i'm not crazy about goose, either. Sat Sep 19 02:21:15 -0700 2009 5040710 105717 alkapal 6 5042040 The Alsatian goose foie seem to have more flavour to me (more smoky among other things), and taste very different from the ones in the US. I like goose, but vastly prefer the smaller birds like the ones I get from Teochew restaurants in Singapore (the few times I've had it in the US weren't particularly great). BTW, not saying that duck foie is not a proper rendition; it's not considered a cop-out, just different. Sat Sep 19 09:46:39 -0700 2009 5041536 10076 limster 7 5042327 perhaps i'm missing something. but... i've been there, done that. sometimes i think people "over-rate" items just because they think they *must* like them in order to be "chowhounds" or "foodies" or "connoisseurs." Sat Sep 19 12:57:05 -0700 2009 5042040 105717 alkapal 8 5042470 >>sometimes i think people "over-rate" items just because they think they *must* like them in order to be "chowhounds" or "foodies" or "connoisseurs." There's no "preference requirement" although one does need to decide for oneself. But even particular categories of ingredients can come with a significant amount of diversity (sources, preparation) that makes it very hard to generalise. Sat Sep 19 14:21:28 -0700 2009 5042327 10076 limster 2 5039106 Agreed. Also, never, ever buy a yacht. Totally overrated. As for taking on an entire brothel, well, after the first five times, what's the point? And the same goes for NY strip steak. Yawn. Fri Sep 18 06:22:06 -0700 2009 5039058 12359 monkeyrotica 3 5039240 "after the first five times, what's the point"? indeed! or is it, *where's* the point? har dee har har, to quote an esteemed fellow chowhound upthread. ;-). monekyerotica, you must be hankering for "lifestyles of the rich and famous." Fri Sep 18 07:16:55 -0700 2009 5039106 105717 alkapal 3 5039689 I could agree with everything you said--well, except about the brothel; I wouldn't know about that...and the NY strip. I'd run over nuns, Eagle scouts and candystripers if they stood between me and a well aged, nicely seared strip steak. Fri Sep 18 09:24:45 -0700 2009 5039106 1104013 Normandie 2 5078564 I'll give ya the fois gras, but I have to admit i'm loving the caviar. Sun Oct 04 14:41:06 -0700 2009 5039058 105625 EWSflash 1 5040010 Garlic mashed potatoes with fish. It is bad enough that they are served with everything in many restaurants but fish???? Fri Sep 18 11:20:57 -0700 2009 5013060 323100 trvler 1 5040616 I think that Tuna Tartare has had its run as a tasty dish. I still love it, but I have had enough of it now where I think it may have risen to "overrated" status. The same thing can be said for most "seared tuna" dishes. They are pedestrian at this point. I find beef tartare on the menu at a lot of high end restaurants, but I wish it would trancend high end and find its way into some of the innovative sports bars that dot the Las Vegas Valley. (I am aware of the liability involved, but there should be enough good beef to go around.) I dont think it gets any more sophisticated, yet primal, than steak tartare. =) Fri Sep 18 14:49:42 -0700 2009 5013060 107040 zendrive 2 5041837 Oh, wow, don't get Veggo started on steak tartare. He's been binging on it lately ala Alan Barnes' recipe. Sat Sep 19 07:55:38 -0700 2009 5040616 131001 c oliver 3 5045291 Can I get a link? Mon Sep 21 03:33:34 -0700 2009 5041837 180623 Soop 4 5055968 Yoo hoo, Veg, where are you??? I know you have it memorized :) Thu Sep 24 13:51:03 -0700 2009 5045291 131001 c oliver 1 5041603 I just thought of one: Filet Mignon. Sat Sep 19 05:17:41 -0700 2009 5013060 111530 gordeaux 2 5042544 I agree with you gordeaux. Certainly the filet mignon is tender but there's just not that much flavor. If I'm going to have a steak it's a ribeye for me. Tender and flavorful. Sat Sep 19 15:02:55 -0700 2009 5041603 233553 schmoopy 3 5042620 Well add a creamy bernaise, along with large tender asparagus and buttery jumbo lump crab on toast points... the filet is quite the masterpiece. http://la.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=33731479 Sat Sep 19 15:37:36 -0700 2009 5042544 277493 DallasDude 4 5044696 Well, I do like all those things but if you have to put sauce and other stuff on your steak then it kind of defeats the point of having a steak (in my opinion). You miss out on the great flavor of the beef alone, which is why I love my ribeyes. Every once in a while I'll order a filet just for a little something different and to re-check my opinion about filets and I find that I still feel that way. They're as tender as can be but just not a lot of flavor. I do have to say though, I have wonderful childhood memories of having filet mignon on Saturday nights at home with my family. This was in the late 60s and 70s and my mom made a mean filet. She had the process down to a science. Beautifully seasoned and broiled in the broiler til medium rare. The funny part is when I tried to duplicate this method one evening with my grandmother who used to watch us and cook dinner for us during the week because both my parents worked. I was either 8 or 9. My grandmother would often throw one of those large "round" steaks in the oven for us and I never liked it. It was always tough and didn't taste all that great. Well, I figured I'd just show her the "right" way to prepare a steak. I seasoned that thing, cut little slits on the fat surrounding it, tenderized it with a fork, and then put it in the broiler. Imagine my chagrin when it just didn't taste the same. I couldn't figure out what I had done wrong! :-) My mom explained to me later that it had to be a certain cut of beef, etc. It was a good lesson. Sun Sep 20 18:00:21 -0700 2009 5042620 233553 schmoopy 5 5046298 Eh, certain steaks lend themselves to sauces, and certainly the filet is one of those. But a filet can be quite flavorful if cooked in a sautee or a flat top. Salt, pepper, a bit of garlic. Sear it in a olive oil/ butter combo till it has a nice thick crust, flip and finish in the oven... delicious! But I do like the butter sauces on occasion for steaks. But normally just the beef solo. perhaps with a side of creamed spinach. OK now I am hungry. Mon Sep 21 10:55:58 -0700 2009 5044696 277493 DallasDude 4 5078566 Maybe, DD, but take away the filet and you still have a hell of a good dish- it almost sounds like the filet gets in the way. I'll take a nice rib eye, medium rare, cooked over charcoal, please. No sauce, just salt and pepper. Sun Oct 04 14:43:56 -0700 2009 5042620 105625 EWSflash 3 5045293 +1 I'll go for ribeye or sirloin Mon Sep 21 03:34:14 -0700 2009 5042544 180623 Soop 3 5045597 The flavor difference between a filet mignon and a hangar steak (or even a skirt steak) is night and day. Difficult to believe that they come from the same animal. Mon Sep 21 07:23:35 -0700 2009 5042544 12359 monkeyrotica 4 5045676 it's true though that a bavette, while tasty, can be a little tough. As far as an actual steak goes, I think ribeye/sirloin is a good medium. However, for certain dishes (e.g. carne asada, pasties) the tougher joints really come into their own. I did have a pasty made with rump steak once though, and it was goooood :P Mon Sep 21 07:48:38 -0700 2009 5045597 180623 Soop 2 5043257 I don't know anyone who actually likes the flavor of beef who also prefers filet mignon. It's steak for non-meat-eaters. Sun Sep 20 00:07:11 -0700 2009 5041603 130151 dmd_kc 3 5057067 OMG thats funny! You know few people. Try a carpetbaggers steak. Fri Sep 25 02:34:35 -0700 2009 5043257 277493 DallasDude 1 5044820 Pasta Alfredo. Monster mix of cheese + pasta = my appetite gone. Sun Sep 20 19:05:26 -0700 2009 5013060 250628 Samuelinthekitchen 2 5045015 It's pretty awesome if you don't go nuts with the amount of butter, just melt a bit into the fresh boiled pasta, and grate some parmesan or pecorino over it, add freshly ground pepper.... damn good. Sun Sep 20 20:46:09 -0700 2009 5044820 116513 linguafood 3 5047326 Any kind of granola, yuck!! Mon Sep 21 16:14:46 -0700 2009 5045015 1110393 CHEFINTHECLOSET 4 5051298 Granola is yummy :) Wed Sep 23 02:27:35 -0700 2009 5047326 180623 Soop 5 5078575 Poor Soop, you are misguided. ChefintheCloset is correct ;-) It really is fun, though, to watch people try to eat the stuff dry out of a bowl with a spoon. They look so awkward and it sounds ridiculous. Clank clank crunch crunch repeat ad infinitum Sun Oct 04 14:47:16 -0700 2009 5051298 105625 EWSflash 1 5056372 Steak. I don't get why people lust over a juicy steak. IMO, they are just so-so. I live in the land of grand steakhouses, and I can easily pass over the filet for the crab cakes or fish. Thu Sep 24 16:34:51 -0700 2009 5013060 18011 Jacey 2 5056418 filet, yeah.. its mushy and lacking in flavor Thu Sep 24 16:58:17 -0700 2009 5056372 135229 thew 2 5057089 I don't understand how anyone cannot like steak. In my eyes the only possibility is eating the wrong steak. Maybe you should get a nice aged sirloin from your butcher and cook it yourself? I've certainly had mixed results from eating out. Another thing I don't get is why they're always served with chips. That's hardly ever good. Makes me sad :( Fri Sep 25 03:23:13 -0700 2009 5056372 180623 Soop 3 5057096 The difference between a dark, properly dry aged steak and the bright red shrinkwrapped stuff you find in the grocery store is the difference between sex with an actual human being and watching two sock puppets with googly eyes do it on a black and white tv with the sound turned off. Also, the horizontal control is broken. Fri Sep 25 03:39:26 -0700 2009 5057089 12359 monkeyrotica 4 5057101 lmfao :D Fri Sep 25 03:49:20 -0700 2009 5057096 180623 Soop 2 5057638 I felt similarly, and still do, however, I must say that a professionally prepared, high quality steak can be very nice...but it is definitely in the overrated section, especially with its cost. Fri Sep 25 08:27:26 -0700 2009 5056372 105711 observor 2 5057678 I'll take the steak and crab cakes and pass the fish to you. To each his own, I suppose. Fri Sep 25 08:41:47 -0700 2009 5056372 19782 Full tummy 2 5058505 I've outgrown steak. To me it's really boring and monotonous unless its something like kobe beef that has fat up the wazoo. I'd rather have a burger than steak 99% of the time. Fri Sep 25 13:09:03 -0700 2009 5056372 10832 Humbucker 1 5058315 Welcome to Steve’s Completely FANTASTIC, OVER-THE-TOP, INCREDIBLE, and OVER-RATED restaurant. Where every dish is so totally, amazingly, over-rated. Why eat here? Because EVERYONE ELSE LOVES IT! APPETIZERS Sushi Gourmet mac and cheese with well-aged feta Domestic Caviar Bloomin’ Onion, housemade chipotle remoulade Sliders of any kind Mozzarella coated in panko SOUPS Shark’s Fin Soup Lobster Bisque Clam Chowder with bacon strips SALADS Deconstructed Nicoise Asian-influenced menu item, served on a bed of lettuce MAIN COURSE Thanksgiving Dinner* with All the Trimmings Chicken Marbella, creamed spinach Chicken Scarpariello Turkey Legs, a la State Fair “BBQ” Braised short ribs, housemade chipotle barbecue sauce Cedar planked salmon, garlic mashed potatoes *You truss and cook the turkey yourself. Please allow 4 hours. SMALL PLATES All main courses may be ordered as tapas (half portions) for no extra charge. CHEESE COURSE Buratta, served on its own leaves DESSERTS Ile Flottant Lava Cake Brownie Pizza Lava Brownie Pizza Flottant (make this into a ‘towering’ dessert: add ice cream and Hershey’s Kisses for only $2) And one last thing….. don’t forget to join us for our signature “WHITE RUSSIAN BRUNCH.” Fri Sep 25 11:57:37 -0700 2009 5013060 10156 Steve 2 5058381 Pretty much covers everything. What will have left to dine on? I think 'cheeseburger' (full sized) was left off the list. Seems we are also free to gorge on anything 'alla puttanesca'. Fri Sep 25 12:22:27 -0700 2009 5058315 277493 DallasDude 2 5063597 Sounds like big-box chain restaurant from hell!! The list could be used as an automatic "stay away" warning if you see any of the items on a menu when you're in a strange city and looking for a place to eat! Mon Sep 28 07:33:57 -0700 2009 5058315 30620 TexSquared 2 5066087 Steve rocks! Tue Sep 29 04:02:58 -0700 2009 5058315 146405 stricken 1 5073680 To me, sundried tomatoes are totally overrated and overdone these days. I find them overly chewy and sadly lacking in flavour. Why bother? Also, balsamic vinegar. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a lovely aged balsamic on a nice fresh tomato salad, but it seems to be in everything these days...even when its flavour overwhelms the other ingredients. Lastly, steak sauce (is it A1?) If a steak is so flavourless or overdone that it needs that disgusting goop, I'll just skip the steak. Thu Oct 01 19:59:36 -0700 2009 5013060 287356 lainekerr 1 5074604 Not so overrated, but I feel the entire category of "Classic American Diner" today gets more love than it deserves. I find 90% of those establishments and the type of signature dishes served at these places generally range from bad to barely adequate. Tastes are boring, prices are higher than should be, quality is nowhere near most ethnic cheap eats. Plus, most people should be able to make this stuff at home easily, and tastier. Club sandwiches. Chicken noodles/dumplings. Pastry that's nowhere as good as gourmet deli/bakery's goods and only slightly cheaper. Omelet and Benedict galore which rarely impress. Often, mediocre coffee and milkshakes. Vegetables at these places are uniformly bad. It's like going to a non-foodie aunt's house, she might not be a bad cook, but it's not what you really want to eat. Nostalgia can do weird things to people's judgment! Fri Oct 02 09:32:07 -0700 2009 5013060 68634 Dio Seijuro 1 5075032 Whose rating is being described as "over"? Fri Oct 02 12:38:23 -0700 2009 5013060 105711 observor 2 5099139 observor, now you went and asked it, huh?! Tue Oct 13 06:45:17 -0700 2009 5075032 105717 alkapal 3 5131473 I was just interested...seems to me you like something or you don't, I don't really know how there can be some kind of group thought. Mon Oct 26 08:36:12 -0700 2009 5099139 105711 observor 4 5131573 groupthink is all over chowhound! and within food criticism. and among self-appointed cognoscenti. for example, go and try to defend -- even just a bit -- rachael ray or sandra lee or paula deen on these boards. Mon Oct 26 09:07:22 -0700 2009 5131473 105717 alkapal 5 5133080 So if 100 people see a movie, and 95 of them say the movie is awful, that's group think? I don't think so. It means that 95% of movie goers think the movie stank. If you're among the 5% who loved the movie, you can expect to get heated disagreement from the viewers who disagree with you. Just because someone is in the majority, doesn't mean they're a victim of "group think." Mon Oct 26 17:36:33 -0700 2009 5131573 11995 pikawicca 6 5136834 pikawicca, i think you read much more into my comment than i wrote. as i said further up the thread: sometimes i think people "over-rate" items just because they think they *must* like them in order to be "chowhounds" or "foodies" or "connoisseurs." Wed Oct 28 06:24:54 -0700 2009 5133080 105717 alkapal 6 5151032 Right, but if people say they like it just because most other people have, that is groupthink. Mon Nov 02 20:17:57 -0800 2009 5133080 105711 observor 5 5151029 What is the defense of them? Paula Deen, OK, she's a jovial gal, but the other two...I don't know. Aren't they all empire crafters? I'll take Alton Brown, Mario Batali, and Bobby Flay any day of the week (gender irrelevant) Mon Nov 02 20:16:38 -0800 2009 5131573 105711 observor 1 5076064 Italian cheeses. Not so much a problem with the cheese as with how it's used. Every mediocre restaurant, in an effort to make their food sound sophisticated, seems to finish with a sprinkle of parmesan...or asiago...etc. Oddly, it doesn't seem to matter what the ethnicity of the original dish is. Mozzarella in Mexican? Can't make bad food good with a dusting of poor quality cheese. Sat Oct 03 05:56:54 -0700 2009 5013060 246323 mountaincachers 1 5076262 Crab claws of any type Sat Oct 03 08:01:20 -0700 2009 5013060 12296 steakman55 2 5076266 Including Dungeness, fresh? Sat Oct 03 08:02:41 -0700 2009 5076262 131001 c oliver 2 5081270 Including stone crabs fresh in season with a delish mustard sauce ala Joes? Mon Oct 05 17:50:18 -0700 2009 5076262 277493 DallasDude 1 5077780 Basmati rice Orange duck Canard laqué (equal time) Crème brûlée Kona coffee All the Bulli-esque foamy starters Sun Oct 04 06:24:39 -0700 2009 5013060 1106797 Parigi 2 5078232 Some more: Sea slug Buddhist jump wall Bird's nest soup Kobe beef Truffles. They are good but not worth the price, says petit bourgeoise I. Sun Oct 04 11:14:56 -0700 2009 5077780 1106797 Parigi 3 5078525 You mean buddha jump over the wall? It's a classic, but it's a whole banquet, not a dish. (These days, most places will abbreviate that to a single dish.) Sun Oct 04 14:03:25 -0700 2009 5078232 10076 limster 4 5078683 More like Buddha doing stretches. :-) Sun Oct 04 15:47:05 -0700 2009 5078525 1106797 Parigi 2 5099142 as far as i'm concerned, foam belongs at the seashore. Tue Oct 13 06:46:42 -0700 2009 5077780 105717 alkapal 3 5130416 or on the toothbrush. All the chic eatery foam just manages to taste like intriguing toothpaste. Sun Oct 25 18:30:26 -0700 2009 5099142 1106797 Parigi 4 5131005 i thought that way too, until i had some superb foams that added to a dish, instead of just sat there looking pretty, or foamy. I've had good foams at AUgust in NOLA, at WD-50 and Degustation in NYC, all of which made sense with the dish, and clearly made the plate better. Mon Oct 26 05:06:47 -0700 2009 5130416 135229 thew 5 5139242 I just don't like that they look like spit... Wed Oct 28 20:14:21 -0700 2009 5131005 156153 akq 6 5139317 think of the ocean instead, then Wed Oct 28 21:11:43 -0700 2009 5139242 135229 thew 2 5113008 What don't you like about Kona? Sun Oct 18 16:55:08 -0700 2009 5077780 1092732 Alan N 3 5130402 The taste, of lack of. Sun Oct 25 18:24:59 -0700 2009 5113008 1106797 Parigi 2 5131462 I have no idea what Kona coffee is, but I was at a fine brunch and the waitress said the coffee was Kona and we press it right at your table so you get the freshest cup available...didn't taste like much, in my opinion. Mon Oct 26 08:33:20 -0700 2009 5077780 105711 observor 3 5131503 Kona is arabica coffee grown in the Kona districts of the big island of Hawaii. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kona_coffee As with other coffees, some beans are better than others. Also, factors like the freshness of the beans, the time between grinding and use, the brewing method and the alignment of the planets can affect the taste of the brew. So, before writing off Kona, you might want to give it another chance. That said, I'm personally not a fan of most Kona, often finding it mild/delicate to the point of blandness and always finding it overpriced. But a lot of people love it. Mon Oct 26 08:47:26 -0700 2009 5131462 10520 carswell 4 5131531 I would say this was mild/delicate. This restaurant was a bit more style than quality, so they may have been using an inferior Kona, (or maybe not even Kona at al.) EDIT: Just saw there are Kona blends...I'm sure this place used one of them. Mon Oct 26 08:54:44 -0700 2009 5131503 105711 observor 4 5131596 I had it while on the Big Island of Hawaii (where Kona is located) and loved it. I'm not usually a coffee drinker, not really finding much appeal to coffee, but figured that since I was on the Big Island, I should give it a try for the novelty factor. I'm quite glad that I did! Mon Oct 26 09:14:03 -0700 2009 5131503 75881 vorpal 5 5146356 It is a coffee I have enjoyed more than others with no cream or sugar. Glad to hear from vorpal (first impression made with the actual goods), made me think that perhaps many are getting "Kona blends", "Kona roasts",etc. Many of these "Konas" are less than half of actual Kona coffee. The brand is carefully regulated in Hawaii, the description of Kona must say "100 percent Kona" for it to be legit. Sun Nov 01 04:43:37 -0800 2009 5131596 1092732 Alan N 6 5153123 i've never had 100% kona, to my knowledge. i wonder if trader joe's carries it? i'm only a visitor at costco, but i don't recall seeing it there. is it only at high-end places? Tue Nov 03 14:24:16 -0800 2009 5146356 105717 alkapal 7 5153317 I had it in Kawaii. Regarding your question alkapal: It was listed on the trader joe's brochure at some point, see below. http://www.traderjoes.com/Attachments/coffee_brochure.pdf You can order direct from the website below. http://www.konacoffee.com/ After looking to see where to get the stuff I stumbled across this reference and quote. Mark Twain stated it so eloquently, “Kona Coffee has a richer flavor than any other, be it grown where it may and call it by what name you please." ~ 1866, Letters from Hawaii. Tue Nov 03 15:25:15 -0800 2009 5153123 1092732 Alan N 8 5154610 wow, a mark twain endorsement! <and he didn't even get *paid* for it!> ~~ ps, i *thought* i recognized mike ditka! ;-)). Wed Nov 04 06:51:43 -0800 2009 5153317 105717 alkapal 1 5114902 Any sausage (Italian, bangers, farmer's bratwurst, etc.) that has any form of poultry listed as one of the ingredients. The only meat in a sausage should be beef, pork, lamb or veal. Mon Oct 19 12:43:30 -0700 2009 5013060 54222 ekammin 2 5115603 You've obviously never had Chinese goose liver sausage! Mon Oct 19 16:35:41 -0700 2009 5114902 10832 Humbucker 3 5116721 Or shellfish sausage. Lobster, scallops, and crab.....mmmmm. And what about blood puddings that are mostly oatmeal and, well, blood? Tue Oct 20 06:52:08 -0700 2009 5115603 12359 monkeyrotica 1 5135239 Lobster, coq au vin, pasta alfredo. Tue Oct 27 13:13:44 -0700 2009 5013060 19003 PAO 1 5140459 Burritos (I just don't get the Chipote craze) and Mexican food in general. I guess I'm not really into the whole carby/cheesy thing. I tend to like lighter food. Thu Oct 29 10:27:21 -0700 2009 5013060 18011 Jacey 2 5143681 Authentic Mexican food can be light. In this country, a lot is influenced by Tex Mex, which is a lot heavier. Fri Oct 30 13:29:08 -0700 2009 5140459 19003 PAO 3 5144662 Yes - Mexican food is very diverse and with big differences between regions in Mexico. Sat Oct 31 03:48:06 -0700 2009 5143681 10076 limster 2 5159718 I agree that American Mexican is overrated! I'm not really into it. Thu Nov 05 18:21:00 -0800 2009 5140459 115828 hotteacher1976 1 5140465 Anything pan-Asian fusion. "Panko-encrusted lemon-grass dragon rolls served on a bed of lettuce with a ginger peanut sauce?" No thanks! Pad thai is overrated, especially since most Thai restaurants aren't even remotely close to authentic and serve the overcooked noodles with that god-awful ketchup sauce. Thu Oct 29 10:29:36 -0700 2009 5013060 1120128 alexthe5th 2 5142293 """ "Panko-encrusted lemon-grass dragon rolls served on a bed of lettuce with a ginger peanut sauce?"""" ~~~~~~~ wha?!?!? where can i get that??? Fri Oct 30 05:07:35 -0700 2009 5140465 105717 alkapal 1 5144265 This thread seems more like a list of "Things lots of people make but very few make well" in that way I'd like to add: Tuna Tartar I've never liked it and it was everywhere for a while. Fri Oct 30 18:30:45 -0700 2009 5013060 195337 sarahjay