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NY Style Chinese food in LA?

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I know this thread comes up from time to time but I have searched all and it appears the question was never answered in the affirmative. So now, two years later I am posing it again with hopes.

I am talking about the NY takeout restaurant style of preparation. Very heavy and greasy, less vegetables. For those who aren't familiar with this I'll take a moment to illuminate. These chinese restaurants in Manhattan can be found on nearly every block of the city. They are almost always "take-out or delivery only" --no in house seating-- and are little more than hole in the wall store-front kitchens with an address and phone number. They are equally as plentiful as pizzerias in NY (if not more-so) and are a staple of every New Yorker's weekly diet. The restaurants are invariably owned an operated exclusively by Chinese folks, and whether or not the preparation is "authentic," the restaurants all prepare the dishes the same way, to the point that there is really no difference from whom you place your order, as you'll be getting the same food from anyone.

This difference in preparation is what i am seeking here in LA. There are certain dishes that commonly appear in NY and not LA, but what I am after here are the staples, which are served on both sides of the country, but prepared in the NY style.

For example: won ton soup. In every chinese restaurant I've visited in LA this is rather flavorless. The soup in LA is prepared with a clear broth, very delicate wontons, vegetables like snow peas and carrots, shrimp, chicken, etc. The vegetables are not cooked through, simply thrown in, and the result is a hodgepodge of indefinite consistency and texture, and a flavor entirely devoid of integrity. It tastes more like what it appears to be: a broth with random things thrown in, and not cooked down to achieve amalgamation of flavor. The NY style won ton soup is always prepared exactly the same way across the board. Rich golden broth, thick-noodle pork won tons, thinly carved pork juliens, and green onions--nothing more, ever. Simple, yet robust in flavor.

Next: sweet and sour chicken. Here in LA we find things like peppers and pineapple throw in. In NY it's just the fried chicken bits and sauce.

Now, for those LA natives reading this thinking "Jesus that sounds awefull!" I don't blame you. There is much to be said for the health-conscious cooking styles of Los Angeles. The Chinese food here is indeed lighter, probably much less, or no MSG, and certainly more healthy with its use of vegetables. But for those fellow transplanted New Yorkers, you know that the LA variety is pale in comparison when it comes to flavor.

Also I am aware that LA's chinatown hosts some wonderful authentic cuisine for the true insiders--as does NYC's Chinatown. But I am looking for that illusive thing that is literally impossible not to come across walking down the street in NYC, and here in LA seems completely absent: the NY-style Chinese takeout restaurant.

This will not be a Panda Express, City Wok, Pick Up Stix, PF Chang's or other mall food. It will be a mom and pop with Chinese owners whose won ton soup consists of only four ingredients and uses tons of MSG.

If anyone knows what I'm talking about, and knows of the existence of such a place in LA, please post here!

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  1. Addy r, you left out duck sauce, fried noodles and chewy fried egg rolls but I love your clear, tasty description of the Won Ton Soup.
    I believe, as you probably know, the answer is, no. Sadly, this cuisine just is not to be found here in LA. I miss it, too.
    A few places do some things similarly but not, at the end of the day, satisfyingly enough.
    Genghis Cohen and Hu's Szechuan are the closest.

    2 Replies
    1. re: Ciao Bob

      Rock on, I'll check out your suggestions!

      1. re: addy rourke

        Report back. I kind of like both for different reasons.

    2. Your post was fun to read and illuminating. Thanks! Sorry I can't help you.

      1. Fly to SF. But if you can't do that, try Twin Dragon on Pico. Depends on the dish though.

        Kung Pao Bistro on Santa Monica has Studio City style won ton soup that although isn't NY style, might be a variation that might work for you. Sam Woo BBQ in Valley has good wonton soup.

        If you find a couple of dishes that are close, you can try mixing them together. Only way I've been able to come close to fried rice out here.
        Or get someone to pack some NYC on dry ice for you.

        1 Reply
        1. re: Food Good

          Actually Twin Dragon is close to what the OP may like.. I think its pretty close but no cigar. Sit down too, but you can always take out..

        2. I still contend that Ying's Kitchen in Sylmar serves this kind of food. Gigantic pork filled egg rolls, egg foo yung smothered in brown gravy, s&s pork that has no vegetables involved. A real guilty pleasure that may make the Chinese Cuisine Purists shudder but is delicious for what it is. Simply put: it is a different animal than you'll be finding in the SGV, and comparisons cannot be drawn.

          2 Replies
          1. re: Wheggi

            Cool! Will check it out.

            1. re: addy rourke

              I should add that while you'll find some tables in the front, this is a newer (as in the last year) addition. Since they first opened 40 years ago it had just been a small lobby and counter: take out only. Also, until recently it had been the same guy in the back cooking since I was a kid in the 70's. He may still pilot the wok on occasion, but I think that other family members handle more of the business nowadays.

          2. Curious when was the last time you had this style of food anywhere. After seeing similar questions on various boards, I'm wondering if this is pretty much extinct nationwide. The same question on the SF and Florida boards has failed to uncover a clear winner. The same question would be meaningless on the Manhattan board since the concept of New York Chinese food is only broached by people who have left New York. But the Manhattan board has seen inquiries for old style Cantonese food, which also have gone unanswered. The issue as I see it is that there are few, if any Chinese restaurant owners who have any conception of what New York style Chinese food, or even old style Canto American food, might be. Unless you have a Chinese restaurant with a decades long operating history, or find somebody who trained under the old style restaurant, it'll be tough to find today.

            6 Replies
            1. re: Chandavkl

              Ironically, Addy, i've found the soup at a Thai restaurant in West LA called Greenview Gardens. it's the BBQ Pork and Noodle Soup.l Not identical, but close.

              Greenview Thai
              11870 Santa Monica Blvd
              Los Angeles, CA 90025
              (310) 571-3229‎

              1. re: Bria Silbert

                Bria - I got a delivery menu hung on my door for Greenview Thai last week and we tried them on Friday night for delivered food for dinner. I have to say, out of all the westside places I've tried Thai delivery from I put Greenview in the number one position. Their BBQ pork fried rice was excellent and I thought all of the dishes we tried were good (Thai BBQ chicken, chicken [not ground chicken - which they also do, but "chunk chicken"] with mint leaves, green curry with steamed tofu with brown rice and one Thai iced tea.

                -----
                Greenview Thai
                11870 Santa Monica Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90025

              2. re: Chandavkl

                A good point. There seems to be confusion as to what the correct technical term to describe these restaurants' preparation is, apart from simply "NY Chinese." Nevertheless, the style pervades NY today. Only a week ago I enjoyed some of the very won ton soup in question in the Upper East side. There are hundreds of these restaurants in operation today in NY. Miami also is peppered with Chinese restaurants of the same style of preparation.

                1. re: addy rourke

                  I think your definition of New York Chinese food is a little different from the previous usages of the term on the L.A. board. Typically it means a New York version of old style Cantonese, and while the dishes mentioned on this thread are all Cantonese, very little old style Cantonese exists in New York. Likewise there are only a handful of places in L.A. that serve (for want of a better term) old Los Angeles style Cantonese. I've pretty much avoided modern day Americanized Chinese food in New York, but I suspect it's a descendent of the faux Hunan style food introduced in New York in the 1970s, with certain old Cantonese favorites included on the menu. In this regard, if you find a local Chinese restaurant that purports to serve Cantonese, Hunan and Szechwan style food (a nightmare combination to lovers of authentic Chinese food), they might have what you're looking for. Since Hu's Szechwan is a decent place for its location, I'd second that possible suggestion.

                  1. re: Chandavkl

                    If she's thinking of what I think of when I think "New York Chinese food" it's definitely still around. Think of a foil tray with pork fried rice on one side and say shrimp with lobster sauce, or pepper beef, or General Tso's chicken on the other side, with a giant egg roll in a wax paper bag.

                    It's not Panda Express and it's not City Wok. I haven't found it in SoCal, except the egg rolls.

                    1. re: Das Ubergeek

                      I think I understand the concept now--this is not the old style New York Chinese that we talk about on the board from time to time. I did go to one of those places in NY earlier this year. I'd describe it as assembly line take-out, where you get a cook to order take out meal in under five minutes and most everybody orders to go.. No place like that iI know of in LA. Americanized Chinese restaurants here are either dine-in with incidental take-out, or steam tray for fast food. I do agree with the post below that the bulletproof glass Chinese restaurants are the closest equivalent. Check out Yee's on Slauson, a block or two east of La Brea which is encapsulated in bulletproof glass and almost exclusively take-out, but cooked to order (though it takes a lot longer than 5 minutes).

              3. try fu shing restaurant in gardena at 182nd and western ave.......

                1. Golden Chopsticks
                  5206 Laurel Canyon Blvd
                  North Hollywood
                  (818) 506-0116

                  5 Replies
                  1. re: ipsedixit

                    Is this the one on the NE corner of Chandler? If so it's closer than most but not quiiiite it.

                    1. re: Das Ubergeek

                      Yup.

                      1. re: ipsedixit

                        Did it used to be called China Lites?

                        1. re: Das Ubergeek

                          No. Golden Chopstick has been there for at least 25 to 30 years. China Lites is a couple of blocks north.

                          1. re: Chandavkl

                            OK, it's China Lites I'm thinking of... on the northeastern corner right by the Orange Line stop.

                  2. I'm from Chicago and also long for the Chinese food I remember like Pressed Duck that I can't find in L. A., but is still on Chicago Chinatown menu's.
                    The best Pork Won Ton Soup I've had In L. A. is at Red Corner Asia, 5267 Hollywood Blvd., L. A. (www.redcornerasia.com) The soup comes with thin egg noodles, minced pork, bbq pork and vegetables. It's delicious and fulfills 1 of my needs.

                    1. Thanks all, I'll look into these helpful suggestions!

                      3 Replies
                      1. re: addy rourke

                        Addy - I have to respect your perseverance in your quest. But I wonder - have you tried any of the numerous bullet-proof-glass-adorned, take-out-only Chinese storefronts in South-central L.A., Highland Park, or other non-Westside/non-SFV/SGV places? These are often extremely greasy and seem frozen in time to me, so if this is sort of dated cuisine, I might drive down Vermont or up Figueroa and do some fieldwork.

                        I don't recognize your descriptions of simple won ton soup or non-veggie-enhanced sweet and sour chicken as being anything unusual in L.A. Maybe in Santa Monica (brown rice with that?) or in Monterey Park they are, but not in the urban core of L.A. Won ton soup with just wontons, pork, and scallions is pretty normal. "Wor won ton" soup has all the other stuff.

                        I certainly don't want to confuse the issue, but i was surprised to see two throw-back items on the same menu the other day (egg foo young *and* chop suey) at Szechwan Palace in Playa del Rey. Not saying this place is NY-style, but if you're approaching it by finding old school American-ized Chinese, maybe give it a shot. They have some good dishes, but also a lot of "pile of goo" style, too.

                        1. re: cant talk...eating

                          Can't Talk, can you name a place near studio city (or anywhere in the Valley) that might serve won ton soup as described? You're the first poster in the thread to assert that this specific preparation of the soup is available here in LA, and you even go so far as to say it's not uncommon. As I have never seen it prepared this way out here, I am dying to learn where I can get it. It is, finally, the soup that i am really after!

                          1. re: addy rourke

                            It's going to be an older, Americanized place with the two kinds of won ton soup, and you order the "normal" kind. [actually, reading below, if you're looking for what "Pigeage" describes as a rich, yellow-colored broth, then no, that's not it either - it's usually pretty clear] Of course, now that you've put me on the spot, I'll work on details!

                      2. Maybe Dim Sum Express. Mom and pop operation with dim sum and old style Cantonese fare.
                        Basically a take out place (formerly a donut stand?). You order from the window on a paper menu with a few tables in the back by the parking lot.

                        -----
                        Dim Sum Express
                        326 N Garfield Ave, Monterey Park, CA 91754

                        13 Replies
                        1. re: monku

                          Not really the same thing. Tasty enough but definitely not a New York-style Chinese takeout.

                          1. re: Das Ubergeek

                            Whatever you think.
                            I grew up in NY and when I came out to LA 30+ years ago the food at Dim Sum Express reminded me of those take out places immediately.

                            1. re: monku

                              Perhaps it's changed then... I don't recall any of the old-school stuff even being on the menu at DSE, just dim sum and a couple of dishes only. Perhaps they've scaled back (I have to assume that their niche in the dim sum market was encroached on by the various Yum Cha Cafes.)

                              1. re: Das Ubergeek

                                No place has "golf ball" size shu mai like Dim Sum Express. I've been disappointed with Yum Cha Cafe lately and stopped going...ever since they added cubes of taro to the black bean spare ribs to replace some of the meat and things like the the fried shrimp balls are left out too long and have a cold rubbery texture.
                                As far as the non-dim sum dishes at Dim Sum Express there's nothing fancy about their food, it's thrown in the wok and cooked, no steam table food there.

                                1. re: monku

                                  I agree. I am less and less happy with Yum Cha's food, particularly the fried items. They still have decent jook and I am a fan of their meat-on-rice mostly because it's a filling meal for cheap (Hainan chicken rice $4.39, cha shu rice $4.19, duck rice $4.59).

                                  1. re: Das Ubergeek

                                    Yum Cha Cafe soups and jook for $2.99 can't be beat and their BBQ stuff is pretty good and reasonable in price.
                                    I suspect some of the decline in quality is due to expansion beyond the original San Gabriel location. I see morning deliveries to the Monterey Park location which leads me to believe that some items are made at a central location and delivered to the other locations.

                                  2. re: monku

                                    Taro is traditional ingredient in black bean spare ribs.

                                    1. re: ipsedixit

                                      I see...it seems that most Chinese American fast food places do not use taro in their black bean spare ribs, but Chinese dim sum places do.

                                      1. re: ipsedixit

                                        Not in my book.
                                        I make it at home, my mother's makes it and many places never used taro in black bean spare ribs. I've eaten it at many dim sum places and never had taro in until recent years to make "appear" to have just as much meat.
                                        If it was traditional why didn't Yum Cha Cafe use it when they first opened? Maybe 6 months ago it showed up.

                                        1. re: monku

                                          The cantonese version (e.g. those found in dim sum joints) usually skip the taro (or other root veggies), but the Beijing or Northern versions generally incorporate it into the mix.

                                          1. re: ipsedixit

                                            Uncle Chen's in Encino (on Ventura Blvd.) claims they are NY Chinese Food. They do give you the fat crispy noodles and the duck sauce to dip it in. You might give it a try.

                                            1. re: ipsedixit

                                              So would you conclude Yum Cha Cafe was trying to be more authentic or trying to save money by giving less meat?

                                              1. re: monku

                                                Honestly, I dunno know and I could care less.

                                                Given the quality of the spare ribs that Yum Cha uses versus the cost of taro root, I'm not so sure the addition of taro root would save all that much overhead.

                              2. AND, anyone know where to find BBQ spare ribs, pork fried rice and "duck sauce"...N Y style of course?

                                2 Replies
                                1. re: soto i am

                                  For some reason BBQ spare ribs I get at Sam Woo BBQ or Hong Kong BBQ in Chinatown are always chopped into bite size pieces. They're good and not usually served with duck sauce, but I'm sure you could ask for some.
                                  Most BBQ pork fried rice I've had seems generically the same everywhere New York or LA.

                                  1. re: monku

                                    I'll go with you on the pork fried rice. Some variation but usually the same.

                                    Duck sauce and the egg rolls, Yang Ming in Orange. Do tell if you find good food besides that though.

                                2. Hi - It doesn't exist. I can't get a decent pizza here for the same reason - food is regional, plain and simple. While there are many, many exceptions, you can measure the authenticity of a particular dish in direct proportion to the distance of its city/region/country of origin - in other words, the food becomes more and more inauthentic the farther away from wherever it was originally created. There is nothing like the rich New York Penicillin golden yellow chicken soup broths favored on the UES and UWS (and all over the Northeast, in my experience,) because here in SoCal the light duck and chicken broths are much more AUTHENTICALLY CHINESE. I understand your desire, but the answer is Jetblue to JFK and a cab to Silver Restaurant. Hmm, just thinking: this NY Chinese style food always reminds me of cold weather - either greasy white round tables and little mustard packets or dialing the phone and having it arrive by bicycle in up to 3 inches of snow even on Christmas (or what my NY Jewish friends call "The Festival of Immediate Seating" . . .

                                  1. I tried the Golden Garden Cafe a few years back, and it had some dishes close, some that you typically dont' see out here like Pepper Steak,
                                    9678 Sunland Blvd
                                    Shadow Hills, CA 91040

                                    I'll paste a review I wrote for another site below
                                    I cut out an ad for this place from the Daily News because it said it features"back-East" style chinese food. Being from the East Coast, I was eager to check it out. The back east style to me consists of offering dishes I haven't seen in California, and the dishes have been "california-ized". I enjoyed the food and will be back though, the dishes are big enough to share, and are served in covered metal dishes.

                                    The back of the menu says they are trying to emulate Cantonese restaurants of New York in the 1950's and 60s.

                                    The place is small, and there are only maybe seating for 30 or so people, I went Sunday night and seating was not an issue, there were only 3 other tables taken up.

                                    When we were seated we were given a bowl of crunchy noodles (fried wonton strips) with duck sauce and hot mustard, the noodles were good and not greasy. We also had our choice or tea, green, black or jasmine - we got jasmine and it was served in a ceramic teapot, and was good. We ended up ordering egg rolls, beef pepper steak, moo goo gai pan, and roast pork fried rice.

                                    The egg rolls were good, very large and served cut up into 4 or 5 chunks each. I wouldn't classify these as east coast-style, however, because the ends weren't tucked in, and the filling consisted of bean sprouts, carrots, water chestnuts and celery - not the typical egg roll filling I'm used to, but they were quite tasty and I'd order them again, in fact when I ate the rest of our leftovers, I was wishing I had more egg rolls. egg rolls were 6.75

                                    Fried Rice - was not at all greasy, had tons of juicy bits of roasted pork, (just roasted, not barbecued pork), and very good and fresh tasting, but wasn't the dark fried rice I associate with the east coast.

                                    Beef Pepper Steak - Very good quality steak pieces, a few menu choices under beef includes filet mignon, but this wasn't one of them. Big pieces of green pepper, onions and shitake mushrooms. This is a dish I don't usually find except back east, and it was executed well, except for the shitake mushrooms. I haven't seen them added in back east, some were rubbery, and there were alot of them. I would enjoy this dish more without them. $12.95

                                    Moo Goo Gai Pan - Very flavorful, not bland like several versions I've had, included broccoli, carrots, pea pods, waterchestnuts and mushrooms, lots of them, in several varieties. The issue I have with Moo goo Gain Pan in california is that it never seems to include bok choy. Back east, this is a staple ingredient in this dish, and it never includes broccoli or shitake mushrooms. I like Bok Choy and don't know why it isn't used more out here. It was good, but I'd see if I could get it without the mushrooms next time. $11.95

                                    We were very full, and had plenty of leftovers. Service was good, our waitress was nice. I would go back, but for anyone expecting true back-east style food, know they are trying to emulate the style of food, and have made changes to be more like restaurants out here. The food is very tasty though, and they used higher quality ingredients than my local chinese restaurants (I live in Santa Clarita). It is also nice to have choices of different dishes, some other menu items offered include chow mein, steak har kow, egg foo young, and many seafood dishes. The menu said they use Maine Lobster, large scallops and wild shrimp.

                                    They also had a lunch specials menu, which included soup.

                                    1. oh i do feel your pain. i grew up on the food you are looking for and cannot find it here. nevermind i don't eat meat anymore, i would still love to dip some crispy noodles in duck sauce, forget my no meat rule for some pork dumplings, and ok, i'll have some beef and brocolli. mmm, sweet and sour shrimp too. i have had very good sweet and sour shrimp at Ghengis Cohen along with duck sauce. that's all i can recommend, unfortunately, though the one time i had beef lo mein there (did not like this at all and lo mein was my fav dish) the beef was very chewy. not very good. but, the egg rolls were good, and did i mention they have duck sauce...

                                      1. Try Wings in Yorba Linda, I've been going there for Egg Rolls for 10 years now and usually pick up a dozen at a time about $20. When you walk in you will be whisked back to 1960's New York on Sunday Night, menu has all the old style dishes including combo dishes. If you're truly looking for Old School NY Chinese this is it. I no longer have to bring egg rolls rom NY when I travel.

                                        Wings
                                        18553 Yorba Linda Blvd
                                        Yorba Linda, CA 92886

                                        1. I was born and raised in New York and have only been able to find NY style Chinese food at one restaurant and that restaurant is Paul's Kitchen. It is in kind of a dodgy part of town but I have been eating there since the early 70's and the food has not changed. They have duck sauce and crispy noodles (unfortunately not the wonton-strip style.) and the Wor Wonton Soup is the real deal. I know there are a lot of people who will diss this recommendation but I truly believe it is the closest thing to NY style Chinese food in Southern California.

                                          There are some things on the menu there that I don't like so I will give you my recommendations:

                                          Shrimp with lobster sauce (best I've ever had.....anywhere!)
                                          Chashu
                                          Egg Foo Young
                                          Chow Mein (I've never had their style of chow mein outside of this restaurant)
                                          Either pork or house special fried rice
                                          Chinese Chicken Salad (not very NY but yummy....they use duck sauce as a base for the dressing)
                                          Chinese greens with beef

                                          They serve a fantastic egg drop soup to each diner (they also offer Hot & Sour....pass on it, though.)

                                          I now live in Japan and would KILL for Paul's Kitchen's food. I am salivating just thinking about it.

                                          They aren't open late and the place is NOTHING to talk about in regards to decor or service but I absolutely love their food.

                                          Paul's Kitchen
                                          1012 South San Pedro Street
                                          Los Angeles, CA 90015
                                          (213) 749-5004

                                          9 Replies
                                          1. re: hbkawachi

                                            I am a former Chinese restaurateur. My niece and her husband still run a take out in queens. A good friend of mine still run a take out in NJ. The types of restaurants you mentioned do not exist west of Pennsylvania. 90% of them now are owned and operated by Fuchow people. Nothing aginst them, but they are better business men than cooks. Plus, nobody spend any time learning anything before saving enough to buy the next "investment". In the west, Fuchow people have restaurants too - all the China buffets.
                                            Fuchow people starts from NYC. when I sold my place in San Diego to a Fuchow guy, all his supporting team is NYC based. Lawyers, accountants, what have you. East Broadway to be specific.
                                            And they all get their supplies from Bowery street. The same great wall paintings, the same signboards, the same decorations done by their own contractors. When in New York, I used to have this joke with my friends, we walk in and listen to the accents, if we hear Fuchow accent we just find an excuse to leave. My friend did not like the joke much since, well, he is from Fuchow. I "admire" you for liking their food :-) .
                                            And they are taking over the Mexican fast food market in NYC too ! Sorry, this is not to be sarcarstic, but just to have a bit fun on your expense: do you also miss NYC style fajita and NYC style cajune food (Bournbon chicken anyone)? :-)
                                            Oh, as your original question ... I don't know because I don't live in LA. (I read this board because I am moving there soon.). But my best guess would be a jetBlue ticket to JFK. Out west it's all buffet, Panda, and the authentic.

                                            1. re: tt1688

                                              This is great information. There was a comment on one of the other boards about the cookie cutter nature of a lot of the new Chinese restaurants opening in the east coast. This confirms the suspicion that there is some kind of commonality of support for these Fujianese operaions. As previously noted in this or another thread, one reason for the lack of this style Chinese food in LA these days is the lack of continuity of ownership. Nobody is going to open a brand new restaurant serving old style New York Chinese food. Heaven knows if there are many people around who could cook that style. You'd need a Chinese restaurant that's been open since the 1960s, if not the 1950s, and there are hardly any of those still around.

                                              1. re: Chandavkl

                                                Agewise I think Chung King/Cheng Du in WLA would qualify, but foodwise I don't think so.

                                                1. re: mc michael

                                                  Yes, but there was a break in lineage somewhere, probably while it was Chung King, and certainly when it became Cheng Du. Kind of like Lucky Star in Glendale which proudly proclaims "since 1949," except I think all that means is that there's been a Chinese restaurant in that location for that many years. It isn't even the same name as the place that was there 15 years ago, and there's no old time stuff on the menu.

                                                  1. re: Chandavkl

                                                    Thanks for the history. I used to see Louie Nye eating there.

                                                    1. re: Chandavkl

                                                      Hasn't Twin Dragon on Pico been there since the early 60's? ('62 or something close to that)

                                                      1. re: Servorg

                                                        I think that's right. And maybe there's a Valley branch as well.

                                              2. re: hbkawachi

                                                I'm not a fan of NY style Chinese food, but my New Yorker friend says Wacky Wok in Venice is a great New York style Chinese food place. I went there with him once and found the food a little bland, but I thought everything was very fresh.

                                                http://www.wackywok.com/

                                                -----
                                                Wacky Wok
                                                2805 Abbot Kinney Blvd Ste F, Venice, CA 90291

                                                1. re: mstinawu

                                                  While Wacky Wok is fine for what it is, New York style it isn't.

                                                  -----
                                                  Wacky Wok
                                                  2805 Abbot Kinney Blvd Ste F, Venice, CA 90291

                                              3. I know of a place on 1st Street called Far East Cafe. Since my whole family is from NY and are transplants here, I think they know NY style food. I've been going there since I was in a high chair and I'm now 52. That should tell you how good the food is! It was rebuilt after the earthquake in the 80's and I have not been there since, but I'm sure it is still good. Unfortunately, I've moved out of the area.

                                                2 Replies
                                                1. re: Sally Mul

                                                  Actually the successor restaurant, Chop Suey Cafe, which re-opened 3 or 4 years ago in the Far East Cafe space, has pretty much been savaged on this board.

                                                  1. re: Chandavkl

                                                    Aw, I'm so sorry to hear that! I was looking forward to going there soon!

                                                2. The closest thing to what the OP wants that I can think of is Golden Star in La Habra on Whittier Blvd. You might give it a shot. All this talk is making me hungry for some Cantonese American food!

                                                  12 Replies
                                                  1. re: SeaCook

                                                    Golden Star is a classic 1950-60's Cantonese-style restaurant----I love their cheap lunch specials, especially the pork chowmein/egg foo yung/fried rice/tea & cookies combo for only $5! Egg rolls are extra and cost $4 for two (but they are huge and yummy), but you can ask for a 1/2 order of just one. Their longtime owner/waitress is very friendly...

                                                    1. re: HBfoodie

                                                      I know exactly what addy rourke and other new yorkers mean about not being able to find good chinese food in LA. First off, where is the duck sauce? Second off, why is Lo Mein called Chow Mein and where is the original NY Chow Mein? Third off, where is the wonton egg drop soup mix that is absolutely delicious? I must say it's frustrating, most of the food out here is good except three things: Chinese Food, Real Bagels (and yes there is a difference), and NY Pizza although the pizza out here is ok and Italian in general is very good.

                                                      I just took someone from CA to NY recently and made them try NY Chinese food because they just don't like chinese food out here. They LOVED the Chinese Food in NY! I will try the place Yang Ming in Orange, and I'll try Paul's Kitchen in Los Angeles but I'm very skeptical. I've been out here for 7 years now and nothing. People in NY don't get how people out here don't even know what duck sauce is. My recent trip to NY and having Chinese Food with wonton/egg drop mixed soup, chicken lo mein, and delicious pork fried rice has renewed my search for good Chinese Food in LA.

                                                      1. re: inlbla

                                                        Well part of the issue is that there are regional American variations of Chinese food. You've got breaded cashew chicken out of Springfield, MO, the St. Paul egg foo yung sandwich in St. Louis, and chow mein sandwich in Rhode Island, and honey chicken in Florida and the southeast, just to name a few. Chinese arrived in California first, then made their way to New York decades later. So in that regard, California style is the real thing and New York is some kind of regional variation reflecting the local demographics, both Chinese and non-Chinese. More recently, the demographic composition of the Chinese in Los Angeles and the Chinese in New York have shown a great variance. New York is full of Chinese from Fujian. There are very few Fujianese in California. Los Angeles Chinese food is shaped by influences from Hong Kong, while there is little such influence in New York, resulting in evolutionary Chinese food in Los Angeles compared to relatively stable Chinese food in New York. I daresay if you fed New York style Chinese food to most of us, we wouldn't like it. On the other hand, that's what you're used to and that's what you like.

                                                        1. re: Chandavkl

                                                          I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but from what I can tell, the Fujianese influx is relatively recent (80s-90s), and came well after the creation of the style of food folks are talking about. See, for example:
                                                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatow...

                                                          Certainly I think there is quite a bit of Guangdong (esp. Taishan, like in many early US Chinatowns) and HK influence on NY Chinatown (and, by extension, NY area Chinese cuisine) historically, though as you say, not as recent as the influx into the SGV right before HK's transfer back to China in '97. Even if many / most east coast Chinese restaurants are currently owned / run by Fujianese, quite a bit of the Americanized Chinese food that's popular is based on (bastardized) versions of Cantonese dishes (as well as bastardized Hunan and Sichuan dishes -- e.g., http://mobile.salon.com/food/francis_...). And while they may have changed the food slightly, I would bet that (other than restaurants catering *to* the Fujianese community) most of these restaurants are not serving Fujianese style food, but rather the same NY-style Chinese food that's been around before they were.

                                                          In any event, the food in Chinatowns and ethnic enclaves is irrelevant to what most of the posters here are talking about, and if you go to most Chinese restaurants in LA outside of the SGV and a few other areas, you will get mediocre, Westernized Chinese food, much as you would anywhere else in the country. It won't be east coast style, but I don't think you can blame either lack of HK influence or lack of Fujianese immigrants for this.

                                                          I grew up in Jersey, and lived in NY for a while, and while I do miss good bagels and pizza, I think the Chinese food is much better here. I'll take Mandarin Deli's or #1 Noodle House's dan dan mian or over east coast style "cold sesame noodles" any day. So to you 'hounds craving NY style Chinese food - maybe it's worth trying to develop an appreciation for something more nuanced and authentic that will still scratch your nostalgic itch.

                                                          1. re: will47

                                                            Fujianese cooks are very adaptable at stying different kinds of regional Chinese cuisines. Trying not to insult a fine group of people, Fujianese cuisine really isn't anything special, particularly when compared to Hong Kong/Cantonese seafood and dim sum. My guess as such they're quite willing to master other types of Chinese cuisine. Chinese from all geographical backgrounds like Hong Kong/Cantonese style seafood, dim sum, etc. If you go to cities where new Chinese communities have sprouted up in the last 30 years or so, such as Atlanta, St. Louis, Tampa and Orlando, to name a few, you will find good, authentic Hong Kong style restaurants, despite the lack of much in the way of local Cantonese or Hong Kong residents. What has happened is that Fujianese restauranteurs have moved in to fill that need. Similarly, given that New York style Chinese food appears to still exist in abundance in New York, and that Fujianese are said to run most of the neighborhood Chinese restaurants in the Big Apple, one can conclude that the Fujianese have also adapted themselves to carry on the tradition of New York Chinese food. Also, it's unlikely that New York style Chinese food will be making any kind of comeback here in Los Angeles given our demographics.

                                                        2. re: inlbla

                                                          I can't recommend Yang Ming anymore except for the egg rolls. The last time I went was absolutely horrible, cornstarchy gloppy grossness.

                                                          1. re: Das Ubergeek

                                                            Ah, the 'C' word. I die everytime my gf (from Taiwan) looks dismissively at some local food and says the word.

                                                          2. re: inlbla

                                                            As a native born Valley Girl I know what duck sauce is. I have even made it. But it's so passe'. and excuse me, mixing egg drop and won ton soup?!!! Who in their right mind mix those two soups together! NYC Chinese food sounds a mess to me. I am sorry but it does. I mean crave old style 60s' Chinese food now and again but this NYC Chinese food you're discribing is bizzare and not at all appetitizing.

                                                            1. re: SeaCook

                                                              I've never had egg drop and wonton mixed together, and I grew up on NYC style Chinese food. How is duck sauce passé? Here in LA everyone serves that disgusting sticky red "sweet and sour" sauce; at least there's some difference for duck sauce.

                                                              General Tso's chicken... fried-rice-and-stirfry combinations (mmmm, pork fried rice with shrimp in lobster sauce)... subgum... almond duck... and all delivered in the blink of an eye, for cheap.

                                                              1. re: Das Ubergeek

                                                                Das Ubergeek

                                                                Maybe passe' was poor choice of word. Personally I like duck sauce (aka plum sauce in case CH knows it by that name) and I really didn't like it when Cantonese-American restaurants subsituted cimmercial sweet & sour sauce for it.

                                                                As to mixing wonton and egg drop soup together I was just commenting inbla's comment about them. I am sorry but my taste-o-meter went blach! I mean that combo as a soup mix? I think both you & i have better taste. Shrimp & lobster sauce was one of my mother's favorites. I will always be an almond duck (but it has to be with crunchy square duck patties)girl.

                                                                Oh for the days Moonlight in Sherman Oaks delivered!

                                                        3. re: SeaCook

                                                          I agree that Golden Star in La Habra is pretty good Cantonese American food.

                                                          1. re: Al Bondigas

                                                            I am considering bbq pork won ton soup from them for tonight.

                                                        4. You got it brother. How about a good shrimp with lobster sauce just pork no carrots/peas. You got to be a new yorker Any of these around in the OC?????

                                                          1 Reply
                                                          1. re: AZAR

                                                            I stopped looking and can make it better at home....it's so easy.

                                                          2. Go here:

                                                            Golden China Restaurant
                                                            6209 Van Nuys Blvd
                                                            Van Nuys, CA 91401
                                                            818 994-7832

                                                            across the street from the Federal Building. Let us know what you think.

                                                            1. Yow
                                                              first for chandavkl - I love Fuzhou food. I think it's great. It's hard to find here - and even in queens when i've visited - well here's what happened. there was a sign in chinese in the window - zhenzong min cai - authentic fuzhou food. Walked in - saw the menu - no fuzhou dishes. asked the waiter why there were only cantonese items on t he menu - he brought out a 2nd menu in chiense with tons of fuzhou dishes. And they made their own red rice wine in the back and it was great.
                                                              Razor clams in red wine sauce, hacked chicekn in rice wine lees, fried oysters fuzhou style, the meatballs of forcemeat surrounded by thin sliced meat, or forcemeat surrounded by a fish ball. Very fresh tasting - not the huge variety of meats and game as in real cantonese, not the upersweet sauces of huaiyang - just fresh and masterful. If you have BIG BUCKS, get FoTiaoChiang - buddah jumps over the wall, could set you back over 300 dollars and sadly, worth it.

                                                              The problem is these fuzhou people aren't cooking their own food, they're having a business opportunity AND perhaps these individuals aren't great cooks in their own cuisine. PITY.

                                                              NOW for the OP - the food described is what chinese food was like here when i was a little kid in the 60's. Closest i remember is still at China KITchen in teh farmers market, 3rd and fairfax.

                                                              and the vegetables aren't a thanks we're healthy LA choice, they're what you find in China. Chinese trad ate lots of vegetables and put them in meat dishes because meat was rationed until the late 80's.

                                                              good luck finding your tastes from home. Worst that could happen, you save up for splurges when you go home. HOw sad it would be if every place were the same... just got back from tidewater va and the outer banks and had food i'd never had before, and loved, and that's part of the joy (for me) of travel. and of different regions.

                                                              but seriously , good luck.

                                                              1. Ha! I am always looking for old style New York Cantonese here in SF where I live but it does not exist. Turns out that in 'real' chinese food, chow mein is a noodle dish. A dish I do not care to eat.
                                                                Who knew?

                                                                29 Replies
                                                                1. re: pauliface

                                                                  "Mein" is Cantonese for noodles, and when I was a kid I'd used to laugh at places that served chow mein "without noodles."

                                                                  1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                    I grew up eating Chinese food in New Jersey with my suburban Jewish American family. We always ate the non-mian "chow mein". (We had no idea that we were actually eating chop suey). We ate is because that's how every restaurant made it. It's an incredibly popular dish... inexplicably. Take a look...

                                                                    http://beckyyamamoto.wordpress.com/20...

                                                                    My family's standard order- chicken "chow mien", eggrolls (deep, golden pockmarked brown, stuffed with cabbage, bbq pork and sometimes shrimp), spareribs (sweet & sticky), beef & broccoli, wonton soup (garnished with skinny strips of bbq pork, green onions and nothing else), and crunchy fried wonton noodles for dipping in the hot mustard and duck sauce. Pistachio ice cream and a fortune cookie for dessert. For literally 23 years of my life, that *was* Chinese food.

                                                                    I always knew there was something more... my father occasionally spoke of "real Chinese food" and how different it was. "If you had real Chinese food, you wouldn't even recognize it!". How he knew this was a mystery to me, since his only exposure to actual Chinese people outside of central New Jersey Chinese restaurants was the very occasional trip into Manhattan Chinatown, where the food is prepared in much the same as in central New Jersey.

                                                                    I remember arriving in LA in 1997 (when I was 23) and meeting with a friendly Chinese city worker who was managing a DMV smog abatement fee issue for me. I still remember asking her where I could find "authentic Mandarin food" in LA. Haha... that was me, the budding but woefully ignorant Chowhound-to-be, trying desperately to seek out greater deliciousness without really know how or where to do it. I think she sent me to the steam table $1 Chinese around the corner on Van Nuys Blvd. But really, I was really curious but had no foundation to anchor my search... didn't know Chowhound existed at that point. Had no idea who Jonathan Gold was or what Counter Intelligence was. I had never been to China, knew so little about Chinese food or people. I distinctly remember ordering "chow mein" and having that first revelation when I was served a bowl of noodles (what we would have ordered as "lo mein" in New Jersey) rather than the bowl of plop that was actually chop suey.

                                                                    I actually am sort of nostalgic for those early days of discovery, when LA and Chinese food were new... it was really an amazing first few baby steps into a vast world which has led me not only to the San Gabriel Valley but to Taiwan, Hong Kong, China and all over Asia with my lovely wife (who is Taiwanese). Our first date was at the now-defunct Tung Lai Shun. Within a month I was taking my first bite (and whiff) of stinky tofu. Amazing were a simply curiosity for "authentic Mandarin food" can lead you :

                                                                    )

                                                                    Mr Taster

                                                                    1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                      yes - it will take you to chou dou fu, nowhere near authentic mandarin (read, shandong, lu-cai) food.
                                                                      adam -never knew this was whereit started.

                                                                      yow.
                                                                      you've come a LONG way.

                                                                      1. re: Jerome

                                                                        Really, "Mandarin" cuisine is Shandong tsai? I always thought it was an arbitrarily chosen word, meant to set the Chinesey vibe for people unfamiliar with real Chinese food. I do wonder how so many Americanized Chinese restaurants decided that their signage should read "Mandarin" cuisine? (or "Szechwan" cuisine, when it is very likely that the restaurant specializes in neither)

                                                                        Case in point:
                                                                        http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&...

                                                                        Does slippery shrimp slip into the Shandong or Sichuan category? :)

                                                                        As for my brief bio, it has been a great ride. Now I find a great deal of enjoyment in sharing the reality of China and Chinese food with friends and family... I do find a sort of perverse pleasure in blowing people's minds... my non-Chinese friends with outstandingly great deals on exciting, delicious foods-- and blowing the minds of the Chinese San Gabrielites when the Mandarin bursts forth from my distinctly non-Chinese visage.

                                                                        Since you grew up in LA, did you follow the growth and Chinese expansion (of people and food) of the SGV in the 80s, or did you find it later, like me?

                                                                        Mr Taster

                                                                        1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                          If you don't mind my butting in, "Northern" and even Mandarin was used by many of us in the Chinese community to describe any non-Cantonese Chinese food well into the 1980s or perhaps the 1990s. Of course real non-Cantonese food didn't exist here until the Food Center opened up in Chinatown in 1979, though Twin Dragon did bring their style of Chinese food to L.A. in the early 70s. The first authentic Chinese restaurant in the SGV that I recall was Kin Kwok which opened up in Monterey Park in the mid-1970s and introduced the then unknown in L.A. Hong Kong style of cooking, including Hong Kong style chow mein with those thin egg noodles we all take for granted.

                                                                          1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                            I remember a Sichuan restaurant in Santa Monica in the early seventies called Chung King. It is where I was introduced to mu shu pork, tea smoked duck and sizzling rice soup.

                                                                            1. re: SeaCook

                                                                              Yes, the faux Hunan Szechwan trend which started in New York probably around 1970 did spread out here to places like Chung King on West Pico. This was indeed a beach head for non-Cantonese food in LA, but was also highly Americanized. It was later in the 1970s that you started to see restaurants such as Changsha, Chinese Friends, Yang Chow and Plum Tree, and then Great Shanghai and Szechwan Palace open up in Chinatown and present something more real in the way of non-Cantonese Chinese food.

                                                                              -----
                                                                              Chung King Restaurant
                                                                              1000 S San Gabriel Blvd, San Gabriel, CA 91776

                                                                              Yang Chow Restaurant
                                                                              819 N Broadway, Los Angeles, CA 90012

                                                                              Chinese Friends
                                                                              984 N Broadway, Los Angeles, CA 90012

                                                                              Szechwan Palace Restaurant
                                                                              431 Culver Blvd, Playa Del Rey, CA 90293

                                                                              1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                Having grown up in NJ in the 1980s I absolutely remember restaurants with "Hunan" and "Szechwan" in the name, but to our middle class Jewish suburban minds, there was absolutely no distinction between the foods that these restaurants served and our regular go-to places (I think our local place in the 70s and 80s was called "Hey Birds"- I wonder what the significance of the name was? Any ideas?) Our order was always the same... chicken chow mein (aka chop suey), egg rolls, wonton soup, etc. Of course there were always variations within the recipes, but it's kind of like meatloaf. Everyone has a different recipe, some tastier than others, but you always get more or less the same product in the end.

                                                                                Mr Taster

                                                                                1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                  There was also Cathy de Grande in Hollywood before it became a punk nightclub.

                                                                              2. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                Ah that's an extremely interesting clarification....i.e. "Mandarin cuisine" signage meaning "Non-Cantonese". It makes perfect sense within the context of the time, but now is a rather funny sounding anachronism (even if it does have some greater meaning, as Jerome suggests).

                                                                                By the way, within the context of the time, what was/is the style of Chinese food that Twin Dragon brought to LA?

                                                                                Mr Taster

                                                                                1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                  Hmm. Well it's hard to remember meals from 40 years ago. But stuff like hot and sour soup, sizzling rice soup, and mu shu pork were definitely new and exotic dishes as far as we were concerned. Also the line between Americanized and authentic Chinese food was very fine, if there was one at all, back then. The Chinese American community was relatively small and few, if any Chinese restaurants could survive on Chinese clientele alone.

                                                                                  1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                    hmmm
                                                                                    well, i wasn't in town from 1975 till 1980 (college and all). And when I got back, a good friend from school had moved here after living in Hong Kong and BEijing for a year - 1979-1980. So the first great expeditions were for actual good Cantonese - yue-cai food before they started calling it all Hong Kong seafood. So palce like Tai Hong, ABC, NBC etc even grandview had decent dim sum (for us). Learning those customs and those dishes. I remember 3-6-9 in Alhambra near the monterey park line, on Valley was the first place i had certain huaiyang dishes. There were mixed places, like chinese firends and hunan in chinatown, sun palace in hollywood had muxu dishes that were ubiquitous. YangChow is still kind of a timewarp for that style and it never was the best example.
                                                                                    There's been a huge trend in the past 30 years of people poo-poo-ing what are real Cantonese dishes, lining ji (don't know the cantonese name -) or lining you-lin ji, the fried chicken with some lemon, or gulao rou - sweet and sour pork, or hibiscus dishes (furong, aka foo -yong) which are certainly found in China although not in the style you used to see here. BUT THEY ARE REAL.
                                                                                    I was in china in 1982 - by that time there was the Mandarin Deli in Chinatown that had pretty good jiaozi and cold dishes - the old Szechwan Palace in chinatown was here by then. I remember organizing a banquet there in 1983 and they had beautiful cold plates - dragon and phoenix with carved vegetables and chicken and shrimp etc. I don't see those even offered much anymore. Some things were easier to get in the 1980's - chinese glaceed fruit from Bejing, Tianjin, and Hebei province in general. BUT by the mid 1980's there were decent sichuan, real yue-cai cantonese, a few shandong places, the chinese islamic restaurant was open (on hoover and 8th - it moved ) and at the time there were more restaurants in Koreatown owned by ethnic chinese and catering less to the korean market and that's where i would find food as close to what i'd eaten in beijing for a long time.
                                                                                    But to be fair, the first REAL hunan places only came along in the last ten years or so - charming garden, and Hunan army; the yungui famlly of places offering steampot chicken (qiguo...) and the taiwanese explosion hit bg in the 1990's.
                                                                                    BUt by 1985, i could find soymilk and youtiao here, easily. so there you are.
                                                                                    (but i do remember the menus heavily catering to chinese conceptions of western tastes as borne out by the market, fun places like Club Dynasty in chinatown).

                                                                                    -----
                                                                                    Mandarin Deli
                                                                                    728 S Atlantic Blvd Ste 103, Monterey Park, CA 91754

                                                                                    1. re: Jerome

                                                                                      What a great history of the evolution of Chinese food in LA . I'm actually now quite sad knowing how significantly historic an event it was when Mandarin Deli left Chinatown... I never knew that it really marked the end of an era. Of course, I knew that MD had been around for a long time, but I didn't realized that their very name designated them as being distinctly apart from the Cantonese restaurants of LA.

                                                                                      Funny how at the same time that you were discovering real sichuan, yue cai, and downing oil sticks and soymilk, I was mired in that morass of chicken "chow mein" (but to be fair, I was about 10 years old at the time). The thing is, I ate it... and if you asked me at the time, I'd say that I liked it... even though I distinctly remember it being pretty disgusting in the back of my head. But it was what our family did, and what all my friend's families did, and so we did it too. How does that expression go-- the man in the desert doesn't drink sand because it slakes his thirst-- he drinks it because he doesn't know any better. It was like that for me.

                                                                                      I still distinctly remember having the feeling that "Chinese food" and "Italian food" were the two acceptable "ethnic" cuisines in central NJ. Much in the same way that white suburban housewives of Orange County would cook enchiladas for the family (which I had absolutely no childhood exposure to), my mom would cook the Italian American favorites of lasagna, baked ziti, manacotti, spaghetti & meatballs. Chinese food, however, was strictly a go out-or-take out cuisine.

                                                                                      Sushi has made significant inroads in central NJ since then (although I have only had it there twice, both times pretty revolting), but I absolutely remember a time when the idea of eating raw fish was utterly horrifying to me. Same with Indian food... the mere idea of it was offensive, even though I had no idea what it actually was. I left and grew up, but my dad did not-- he's still living there and to this day has never left the country (he's gone down the road of Orthodoxy). When I once told him many years ago that I loved Indian food, his reaction was... "Don't they eat bugs? That's disgusting!" From my vantage point on the other side of the looking glass, it sounds absurd-- but I have to step off my high horse because there absolutely was a time in my life where I had no problem making proclamations and judgments about foods that I had absolutely no exposure to.

                                                                                      Would love to hear more details about your perspective on the evolution of Chinese Food in LA, if you're so inclined.

                                                                                      Mr Taster

                                                                                      1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                        I have a great uncle who was visiting us from Jerusalem (not american, never american). He is religious as were my grand parents and I took him to "fragrant vegetable" in the 1980's - which was the first (that i knew of) chinese vegetarian place - something something zhai in chinese... fragrant vegetable is a crazy name in chinese - right? who'd call their restaurant cilantro?. - any way, first in Monterey Park. They later moved to the west side , and died.
                                                                                        BUT i took him there - we had the usual cold plates, veg char siu pork, duck, haizhepi-jellyfish, etc. He came back - my grandfather asked him what we did, he said i'd taken him out to eat pork. My grandfather was shocked, but my great uncle laughed and said it had been vegetarian. BTW, he'd never had pork, & quoted Talmud saying that it was very tasty. (talmud says that one shouldn't avoid pork by claiming it's disgusting, because nothing created by a munificent deity could be disgusting).
                                                                                        ANyway - take your dad to one of those places like woodlands, or surati farsan, or - hey i still like happy family. they're great and for his purposes, ok with the road to orthodoxy. (unless he's so extreme as to worry about pas/t yisrael, halav yisrael, or bishul yisrael.

                                                                                        1. re: Jerome

                                                                                          I'd love to take him to Woodlands but he's way too far down the rabbit hole. If there's no heksher, he ain't eating it.

                                                                                          Mr Taster

                                                                                          1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                            honestly - talk to his rabbi when you visit next and say that there is no dairy at happy family ( and there may be inone dish.. but this is the us and there's no real danger of treif milk). teh woodlands is certified vegetarian. does he buy only cheese with a hekhsher? soloveitchik taught that rennet.... well it doesn't matter. BUT just to let you know, pearl river brand soy from Guangzhou and the best Zhenjiang vinegars are now sold in this country...
                                                                                            WITH A HEKHSHER. couldn't believe it but there it was right on the bottle.

                                                                                            1. re: Jerome

                                                                                              There is probably dairy (and not US dairy) in many of the dishes at Happy Family. A lot of the imported mock meats contain whey or casein, and I will almost guarantee that some of the processed mock meats there (and at most other Asian Buddhist vegetarian restaurants) contain it.

                                                                                              Strict Buddhist vegetarians generally don't eat egg (so dishes containing egg will generally be indicated at these places if they're served at all, though I'm not convinced they're always perfect at avoiding it in noodles and dumpling / spring roll wrappers), and in most sects, avoid the 5 pungent spices (garlic, onion, green onion, garlic chive, leeks. But even though milk wasn't traditionally common in China / Taiwan, a lot of the mock meats do contain dairy in various forms, and very few Buddhist groups have rules against it (the Supreme Master Qing Hai cult does seem to encourage total veganism now).

                                                                                        2. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                          Mandarin Deli not to be confused with Mandarin Restaurant on Spring Street, which served Cantonese food and was a late night meeting spot.

                                                                                          -----
                                                                                          Mandarin Deli
                                                                                          728 S Atlantic Blvd Ste 103, Monterey Park, CA 91754

                                                                                        3. re: Jerome

                                                                                          Yes, fascinating! am late but this thread has been a great read....

                                                                                          1. re: Jerome

                                                                                            Yes, Grandview Gardens was probably another game changing restaurant. In the early 1970s brought a variety of dim sum that led to the now commonplace custom of spending Sunday morning waiting to get inside a dim sum restaurant.

                                                                                          2. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                            I remember a lot of those restaurants: Tai Hong, Golden Palace, Lime House, and Grandview Garden. On of the owners of Tai Hong was a family friend. One of the cooks in Lime House was also a family friend. As you mentioned, the line between Americanized and authentic Chinese food was sometimes fine. I think many Chinese-American dishes have their roots from authentic Cantonese dishes, but they are made differently, such as egg foo young. Fortunately for us, we usually had the authentic (and I think tastier) original dishes because we knew the cooks and owners.

                                                                                            We used to continue going to Chinatown until Deerfield Plaza opened up on the corner of Garvey and Atlantic in Monterey Park, and there was a Cantonese restaurant there. We thought their sizzling plates were exotic. That and the opening of DiHo market (close the current location of Elite Restaurant) in Monterey Park really marked a turning point in the migration of Chinese and Chinese-Americans to the San Gabriel Valley.

                                                                                            1. re: raytamsgv

                                                                                              Never got to eat at Deerfield Garden or whatever it was called. A few other significant openings in the late 1970s were House of Louie and the large shopping center at Garvey and Garfield, and Nam Tin, the banquet sized restaurant that opened near Thrifty Drugs at Atlantic and Garvey. And then there was the big shopping center that opened up around 1980 at the present site of NBC Seafood, with Golden Shark occupying the large space and Sea Dragon, among others, back in the corner. In Chinatown, I think Kam Wah introduced the full Hong Kong style menu also in the late 1970s. Drove us simple Toishanese country folk wild, in the same way that Kam Lok in SF Chinatown did (but to a greater degree).

                                                                                              -----
                                                                                              NBC Seafood Restaurant
                                                                                              404 S Atlantic Blvd, Monterey Park, CA 91754

                                                                                              Deerfield Restaurant
                                                                                              165 N Hacienda Blvd, La Puente, CA 91744

                                                                                              1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                                peng yuan on atlantic had real beijing style food in 1983 or so, if i remember correctly.

                                                                                                maybe i'm confusing it with another place.

                                                                                                1. re: Jerome

                                                                                                  Well Peng Yuan is where Elite is now, first in a long string of restaurants there. Weren't they one of the first places with a lot of big tanks of seafood? Maybe you were thinking about Ju Lo, a small place in the same center, but on the other side of DiHo Market, somewhere around what was most recently Silver & Gold Amazing. I think that might have been an early day non-Cantonese operation.

                                                                                                  1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                                    also that mall on valley near new had silver wing, with REAL yangzhou dianxin (pine needle shao mai) - which i can't find in town anymore, as well as 369 etc.
                                                                                                    Peng Yuan - exactly right. but i don't think they had the tanks there - and certainly no "ny style" egg rolls, to keep completely on topic.

                                                                                                    1. re: Jerome

                                                                                                      Don't recall a restaurant like Silver Wing that just packed up and moved intact to another metro area, in this case Cupertino in the Bay Area. I didn't encounter 3 6 9 until 1986--not sure if it was around before then.

                                                                              3. re: pauliface

                                                                                For the record I know nothing of L.A. Chinese food. I lived in LA from 1983 to 1985. I went to 2 places for Chinese food: Genghis Cohen (where I was taken by talent agent who did not understand why I would not let him cast me, in real life, as his boyfriend. But I liked the food and continued to frequent them) and another place whose name escapes me.

                                                                                Their catchphrase was "Dim Sum and Then Some" and you mostly ate at a counter, and it was very nontraditional, but they had a very tasty chinese chicken salad. Anybody remember this joint's name?

                                                                                -----
                                                                                Genghis Cohen
                                                                                740 N Fairfax Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90046

                                                                                1. re: pauliface

                                                                                  I think that was Chin Chin's tag line.

                                                                                  1. re: Jack Flash

                                                                                    YES! Thank you.

                                                                              4. Doesn't the "old" Uncle John Ham & Eggs fit the bill?

                                                                                5 Replies
                                                                                1. re: ns1

                                                                                  Haven't been to the new location, but sounds like the ambiance is quite different, and I wonder if it's gotten trendy.

                                                                                  1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                    speaking only of the "old" location, would that qualify as NY-style chinese?

                                                                                    1. re: ns1

                                                                                      Too much extraneous stuff on the menu. I never bothered with the Chinese food since I'm not looking for New York style fare.

                                                                                  2. re: ns1

                                                                                    Just had the best shrimp with lobster sauce at Uncle John's for lunch today. Just like my mother used to make.

                                                                                    1. re: monku

                                                                                      I don't think I've ever walked out of there w/o ordering the fried pork chops.

                                                                                  3. There's a new restaurant on Honolulu in Montrose that claims to be "NY style Chinese." I haven't tried it yet. I take my NJ friends to Paul's Kitchen and they seem satisfied.

                                                                                    -----
                                                                                    Paul's Kitchen
                                                                                    1012 S San Pedro St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                    12 Replies
                                                                                    1. re: badvlad

                                                                                      Believe it's New Moon?
                                                                                      http://www.newmoonrestaurants.com/dir...

                                                                                      They originally were located in the original Chinatown on San Pedro and their claim to fame is inventing the Chinese Chicken salad. The re-opened 20+ years later in the Fashion district.

                                                                                      Paul's Kitchen is my go-to.

                                                                                      -----
                                                                                      New Moon Restaurant
                                                                                      2138 Verdugo Blvd, Montrose, CA 91020

                                                                                      Paul's Kitchen
                                                                                      1012 S San Pedro St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                      1. re: monku

                                                                                        I thought Chinese Chicken salad was invented by Madame Wu.

                                                                                        1. re: SeaCook

                                                                                          All I know is New Moon literally must sell a ton of their chicken salad every year. Everyone orders it.

                                                                                          -----
                                                                                          New Moon Restaurant
                                                                                          2138 Verdugo Blvd, Montrose, CA 91020

                                                                                        2. re: monku

                                                                                          It isn't New Moon, it is "Wacky Wok." New Moon has been there for at least 4~5 years and it isn't on Honolulu Ave, it is on Verdugo Blvd. Here's more on "Wacky Wok" http://losangeles.grubstreet.com/2010...

                                                                                          Also, the New Moon in downtown wasn't on San Pedro, it is on 9th and Main in the fashion district and has been there for eons. I believe the place on San Pedro you might have been referring to was "Man Fook Lo" (or "low") which was one of my father's favorite restaurants.

                                                                                          -----
                                                                                          The Verdugo Bar
                                                                                          3408 Verdugo Rd, Los Angeles, CA 90065

                                                                                          New Moon
                                                                                          112 W 9th St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                          1. re: hbkawachi

                                                                                            OK on Wacky Wok.

                                                                                            The original New Moon (prior to 9th & Main) was on San Pedro in the 50's-70's along with Man Fook Lo and Paul's Kitchen.

                                                                                            -----
                                                                                            Paul's Kitchen
                                                                                            1012 S San Pedro St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                            New Moon
                                                                                            112 W 9th St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                            1. re: monku

                                                                                              912 S. San Pedro Street, to be exact. Actually that was the "new" New Moon on San Pedro St. which they built probably in the late 1950s. It was previously in an old building on San Pedro St., on the same block (possibly the same lot) but I don't remember for sure. There was a several year gap between the closure of the San Pedro St. location and the reopening at 102 E. 9th St. Not sure when the reopening was--my guess is the mid to late 1980s.

                                                                                              -----
                                                                                              New Moon
                                                                                              112 W 9th St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                              1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                                Used to go to New Moon on San Pedro to get 1/2 a Peking duck for $9.
                                                                                                Could have been almost 20 years till they opened the location in the Fashion District. You go there they have lots of to-go orders for their Chinese chicken salad.

                                                                                                1. re: monku

                                                                                                  San Pedro St. New Moon was still open in the early 1980s--we threw my son's red egg party there at that time. I know they were out of business for a number of years before reopening.

                                                                                                  -----
                                                                                                  New Moon
                                                                                                  112 W 9th St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                                  1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                                    Now that I think about it was probably the early 80's when I ate there last. But, definitely many years before they re-appeared. I talked to the owner of the Fashion District location and she was the daughter-in-law of the original owners. She claimed they invented the Chinese chicken salad. I'll stand behind my claim no one sells more CCC than they do....it's pretty good.

                                                                                                    1. re: monku

                                                                                                      It has benn my understanding that Madame Wu invented Chinese Chicken Salad. Please see here:

                                                                                                      http://china.usc.edu/ShowArticle.aspx...

                                                                                                      and here

                                                                                                      http://china.usc.edu/ShowArticle.aspx...

                                                                                                      1. re: SeaCook

                                                                                                        Probably like who invented the French dip--Cole's or Philippe.

                                                                                                        1. re: SeaCook

                                                                                                          The articles didn't exactly say she invented the dish but was inspired by a conversation with Cary Grant. Maybe Cary had it at the New Moon?
                                                                                                          Probably similar to who invented the French dip sandwich...Philippes or Cole's.

                                                                                        3. The only thing I have had like that around here was up in Newhall, when I went to school at CalArts......Mandarin Wong, except for the egg rolls, has EVERYTHING else you are looking for....that great, sticky, heavy, laden with MSG fake Chinese food.....I get the cravings too.....

                                                                                          3 Replies
                                                                                          1. re: imsound

                                                                                            That's a possibility since it's probably been around 25 years or more. But have you been there lately? A Yelper complained last week about the completely new staff there.

                                                                                            1. re: Chandavkl

                                                                                              Oh no! I loved those guys! I haven't been there in about a year and a half........That would be too bad, because the waiters always knew us.....I wonder if they sold it to someone else.....did they say anything about the food?

                                                                                              1. re: imsound

                                                                                                Went a week and a half ago, the food was pretty much the same, but all new staff. We were reluctant to stay, but I asked what was up, and was told same owner, same cooks.

                                                                                          2. With respect to New York style Chinese food most of what could be said has been said already but just to add to the dialog and maybe fill in a few gaps I have the following to say: One can get food that is similar if not the same as the NY style but it is pretty near impossible to find it all at one place. In my experience you can get the chow mein and shrimp with lobster sauce like NY style at Paul's Kitchen but pretty much everything else although old style is old style LA such as was served at Man Fook Low, Far East Cafe and New Moon. You can get NY style war won ton soup, at least the soup part, at Hop Woo in W. LA. If you ask for it they can cook the food any style you want but you do have to ask. I have only tried with the shrimp with lobster sauce and it was good. They called it shrimp cantonese. Something like the NY chow mein can be gotten at Fu's Garden on W. Pico where they serve the dish with mostly bean sprouts with sauce and lots of chicken over fried noodles. They also start you off with a plate of fried noodles (not the flat kind) and a dish of duck sauce. The NY style egg fu young with a brown gravy can be gotten at almost any of the strip mall places that advertise $1 Chinese food or "best" Chinese food, etc. You can also get that kind of egg fu young at the Chinese restaurant stall at the East end of the Farmer's Market next to the Grove.

                                                                                            Apropos of some of the comments re change of ownership which hampers the style of cooking pertains to Twin Dragon on W. Pico. It came on the scene in the early 60's. I had just gotten married at that time and lived close by and it was a real find for this ex-New Yorker. It called itself Shanghaiese as far as style is concerned and did introduce LA to some new dishes including, as was mentioned above, Mu Shu Pork which it called Egg Lucerne(!!). Also new to LA were twice cooked pork and all sorts of spicy dishes which it called Mandarin style cooking. It served some dumplings and bao's on Saturday for brunch and routinely carried Lion's Head, one of my favorite dishes which is difficult to find nowadays. They opened branches eventually in the SF Valley and across the street from Disneyland with similar menus but not as good. Eventually, the place changed hands and fell on harder times. The Saturday brunch was eliminated and no more Lion's Head. It may have changed hands again and the kitchen is once more in good hands but now it is not cutting edge as it was at the beginning. It is still very good.

                                                                                            By the way, just as a personal note, I discovered Moo Shu by accident. One evening my wife and I went in for dinner and got an old menu which had a few dishes with pencil checks next to them including twice cooked pork and the Moo Shu. On a lark I tried them both and was hooked. Thanks to that unknown eater who had a handy pencil. S(h)e was probably an incipient Chowhound much before his/her time!

                                                                                            -----
                                                                                            Paul's Kitchen
                                                                                            1012 S San Pedro St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                            Hop Woo
                                                                                            11110 W Olympic Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90064

                                                                                            Far East Cafe
                                                                                            347 E 1st St, Los Angeles, CA

                                                                                            New Moon
                                                                                            112 W 9th St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                            2 Replies
                                                                                            1. re: marloart

                                                                                              marloart,

                                                                                              I'm curious about one aspect of your interesting post.

                                                                                              "You can get NY style war won ton soup..."

                                                                                              You're older than me, as I grew up in NJ a decade or two after you were married. But during my frame of reference in knowing NY style Chinese food, there was no such thing as "NY style wor wonton soup". It was just wonton soup. I still have no idea what the "wor" refers to. Maybe a Cantonese speaking Chowhound can chime in on this.

                                                                                              I only discovered the "wor wonton" style after arriving in Los Angeles in the mid 90s. I still remember being shocked by the bowl full of vegetables presented to me at my first (and one of my only) visits to Chin Chin circa 1997.

                                                                                              The wonton soup of my youth (non-wor style) had a clear, salty broth, several meaty wontons, slivers of red-tinged bbq pork, and the only visible vegetable... a sprinkling of chopped green onions. Very simple, and delicious when well executed (though I'd had many watered down versions during my childhood). Wonton soup was never served in a broth brimming with vegetables. It was a much more austere dish.

                                                                                              I always chalked the "wor wonton" up to being a healthier California style of wonton soup. I'd never associate it with the NYC food of my youth.

                                                                                              Mr Taster

                                                                                              1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                My understanding of the difference between wonton soup and war wonton soup in LA is that the wonton soup only had wontons in it whereas war wonton soup had the additional slices of pork, chicken breast, sometimes shrimp, pieces of onion/scallion and bok choy, mushrooms, water chestnuts, etc. When I said you could get the NY style of war wonton soup I was referring to the broth aspect of it. The clear but deep yellow and flavorful broth rather than the thin watery type of soup usually served in LA. You usually can get either of the two wonton soups in LA restaurants. The thicker skin wontons really depend on the chef's preference. I've had both the thicker and the thinner in LA restaurants.

                                                                                                I grew up in Brooklyn and the restaurants that we went to used to refer to their wonton soup as Chinese kreplach soup given the demographics of Brooklyn in the 1940's! And, by the way, I got a kick out of the post that described Christmas as the "festival of immediate seating." The corollary to that is that one Christmas when I went to a very long midnight mass at St. Basil's in the SF Valley, at the conclusion of the service the priest thanked us all for coming and staying to the end and that if we were hungry, it now being well past midnight and the Christmas holiday in full swing, we can thank the heavenly Father for the fact that Art's Deli and other Jewish delis were still open!

                                                                                            2. anyone tried the following: someone suggested we go there for this type of food, take-out.

                                                                                              Mandarin Chinese Food & Sushi on Pico

                                                                                              1 Reply
                                                                                              1. re: epop

                                                                                                I haven't been there in many many years and if it wasn't very good then, I'd be shocked if it's any better today. Also, generally speaking, restaurants that mix Chinese and Japanese food are death on both counts. I do have to admire their marketing moxie. We once found a bunch of their flyers outside our office--in downtown L.A.

                                                                                              2. Agree with you 100%. When I lived in NYC I always ordered the won ton soup even when I was not in the mood for soup. I found that if the wonton soup was good the rest of the meal would be the same, if the won ton soup was bad, I would walk out. Coming out here in the 70's I always looked for " Lums" Queens chinese taste. Still looking for a good NYC eggroll, shrimp w/lobster sauce w/out the carrots/peas & pressed duck, cantonese chow mein topped w/barbeque pork, an old fashion shrimp egg foo yung. What are the chances of finding this out here. Help! Thanks

                                                                                                2 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: AZAR

                                                                                                  Other than the egg rolls (which have never been good there) and the pressed duck (which I dpn't know if I've ever had there), I say you need to get yourself to Paul's Kitchen. The shrimp w/lobster sauce is the best I've ever had and the chow mein is unlike any other I've ever had in California. The egg foo yung is fantastic as well. Don't forget to order a side of chashu with duck sauce! I live in Japan now and really miss their food!!

                                                                                                  -----
                                                                                                  Paul's Kitchen
                                                                                                  1012 S San Pedro St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                                  1. re: epop

                                                                                                    There's a lot of good food here but I grew up on Paul's Kitchen's food and it's just something I miss and crave. I think we probably all have something like that.

                                                                                                    -----
                                                                                                    Paul's Kitchen
                                                                                                    1012 S San Pedro St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                                2. Sorry about not mentioning the tons of MSG & chinese cooking wine added to the dish

                                                                                                  1. I'm glad we have some ex NYC who remember Lum's on nothern blvd Queens. For me this was the BEST!!!!! cantonese restaurant . It was a weekly family ritual. Pulled into the the back parking , had drinks at the bar waiting for a table. We ordered the same dishes every week. 1. won ton soup... the broth crystal clear filled wonton, roast pork & bok choy. 2. appetizers barbeque spare ribs the meat so juicy fell off the bone & egg rolls filled w/cabbage & pork plus a large cup real chinese duck sauce. 3. main course Cantonese pork chow mein w/ soft noodles pressed duck w/almonds so good not to be found anymore, lobster cantonese in the shell with pork/egg/scallions, sweet & sour pork, steak kew (fillet) w/bok choy & oyster sauce
                                                                                                    house fried rice....... & several takeout boxes for sundays breakfast.... I'm going to try Paul's this weekend to see if I can taste some real NYC chinese food..... If any of you ex NYC transplants know of any other NYC style chinese restaurants, please advise. Please no pf changs, sam woos, panda express, pick up sticks, chin chin, pei wei Thanks

                                                                                                    4 Replies
                                                                                                    1. re: AZAR

                                                                                                      Folks, because this is the L.A. board, we're going to ask everyone to discuss Chinese restaurants in the L.A. region that serve this style of food. Lengthy discussion of restaurants in New York are off topic on this board. thanks

                                                                                                      1. re: AZAR

                                                                                                        I hope you like Paul's. I always order the same things and nothing else:

                                                                                                        Egg Drop Soup (you get a choice of free egg drop soup or hot 'n sour soup...ALWAYS get the egg drop, it's the original and the hot n' sour was added to the menu later.)
                                                                                                        Chashu appetizer w/duck sauce
                                                                                                        Chicken Chow Mein (soft noodles)
                                                                                                        Shrimp (or any other type) Egg Foo Yong
                                                                                                        House Fried Rice (best fried rice I've ever had)
                                                                                                        Shrimp w/lobster sauce
                                                                                                        Beef w/Chinese Greens
                                                                                                        Chinese Chicken Salad (a later addition to the menu, but excellent!)

                                                                                                        In addition, I've ordered the wor won ton soup when I've been in the mood for it and it has been good.

                                                                                                        I'm a bit worried because I haven't been there for 4 years and because your memories of NY Chinese is so deep and fond. But hopefully you'll find it is the closest thing to NY Chinese food. But be careful, DON'T order the egg rolls....they've ALWAYS been bad!

                                                                                                        1. re: hbkawachi

                                                                                                          My Son and I like the Tommy Lasorda Dinner Special at Pauls. Its a small square on the front of the dinner. They will let you sub out a dish if you dont like it for a dollar or two. For about $20 wow.. its allot of food. We like it and yes boxes to go! It has Wor Won Ton, App plate ) 2 main choices and house rice IIRC

                                                                                                          1. re: Foodandwine

                                                                                                            In over 30 years of going to Paul's Kitchen, I never once ordered the Tommy Lasorda Special. I guess it comes from the fact that I was born in NYC and have never been a Dodger fan (and yes, I know LOTS of Dodger players eat there.)

                                                                                                            -----
                                                                                                            Paul's Kitchen
                                                                                                            1012 S San Pedro St, Los Angeles, CA 90015

                                                                                                      2. Hope this helps, just a lead...
                                                                                                        was driving around the SE part of LA county, little exploring, adventure (ate at Fenix 5-4 in Whittier, good hippie-style sprouty sandwiches, and noodles at MaLan in Hacienda heights, also interesting fountain drinks at Rocky Cola Cafe in whitter) and drove by
                                                                                                        NEW CANTON on Philadelphia near Greenleaf in Whittier, not far from the College.
                                                                                                        Looking at it, I thought, wow that looks like a time-warp, why eat here when you have the whole SGV so close,,, and then I realized, there's a good chance they have the old-style American-Cantonese type food you're looking for.
                                                                                                        So good luck. Let us know if you try it.

                                                                                                        -----
                                                                                                        Rocky Cola Cafe
                                                                                                        6757 Greenleaf Ave, Whittier, CA 90601

                                                                                                        5 Replies
                                                                                                        1. re: Jerome

                                                                                                          Funny you should mention MaLan. Did you catch this small thread: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/799494 ?

                                                                                                          1. re: Servorg

                                                                                                            just wrote on it. Fine. If das uber doesn't like it, i have no horse in the race. I like it fine when I go which isn't more than a few times a year. Look - i also like giang-nan's xlb a lot as part of a whole meal and am not crazy about din tai fung. This is personal taste, after all.
                                                                                                            do you like malan?

                                                                                                            1. re: Jerome

                                                                                                              Have never tried it, but from everything I read about it I probably would be left going "What was the fuss all about?"

                                                                                                              1. re: Servorg

                                                                                                                I really love it. I think DU just ordered noodles too thin for the soup. then again - life is short.

                                                                                                          2. re: Jerome

                                                                                                            New Canton does fit the profile of possibly serving old style food as it's family owned for many years. A recent immigrant restaurant owner from Taiwan or the Mainland isn't likely to be familiar with the old style Cantonese food. My friend's relative owned this restaurant and they ate there frequently in the 1960s and 1970s. I haven't been there since the 1990s so can't say what it's like now.

                                                                                                            -----
                                                                                                            New Canton Restaurant
                                                                                                            13015 Philadelphia St, Whittier, CA 90601

                                                                                                          3. Your quest is well written and honest. After having lived in Manhattan 3.5 years, Boston 6 years (on and off), Jacksonville, FL (1year), N.J. (1/2 year), VA (1.5 years), I don't know why you would ask for food like that (bad food). You're in L.A. to get away from that type of food. I didn't know I was spoiled having grown up in L.A. since 1969 and had to move around for work. Those take out restaurants you're talking about are terrible. I'm not trying to chide you, I just have to express my disappointment. Those aren't really "old style" Chinese restaurants - they were simply makeshift recipes and policies to conform to the misguided expectations of the patrons.

                                                                                                            I must however admit, sometimes, I satisfy a craving for some food I've had as a kid - analogous to your need for NY Chinese food. So I heat up a can Chef Boyardee's Ravioli's with cut up slices of hotdog to accompany a tray of Banquet's Salisbury Steak.