649484 Wed Sep 02 09:58:15 -0700 2009 63 29 Not About Food 0 4999087 My son turned 16 almost two weeks ago, and another post on another board got me thinking about his eating habits.The post in question asked for how to raise a kid who isn't a picky eater. I can give our experience to you in a nutshell: We never "assumed" Ian wouldn't like a given food. As a result, he's always been a person who will try anything twice; as he puts it, "The first time they may not have made it right." I really think that an awful lot of picky eaters are the result of an upbringing by parents who either eat a fairly limited menu, have food issues of their own, or both. They project their issues onto their children, assuming that the kids won't eat something that they've never even tried, when in reality the kid may love the item in question. As the child grows up, this skittishness about food becomes ingrained. My niece, who lives up the street, is the Poster Child for this sort of thing. She doesn't even like ranch dressing. Who ever heard of a suburban American kid not liking ranch dressing? We just always assumed Ian might like just about anything. And indeed, he has very few dislikes. He doesn't like raw onions or any food where onion is the primary ingredient (French onion soup, for example). Brussels sprouts are a challenge. He won't touch organ meats, but that's OK because with the exception of chicken liver neither will I. But those are the only major hangups. He's been eating seafood since he could eat solid food, and when he was little senior citizens in the grocery store would do a double-take when he'd ask for broccoli in the produce aisle. Sushi is a passion of his. And when faced by something he's never tried before, his reaction is always the same: "Let's give it a try." I'm thankful for this, but he has no siblings so I need some other models if I'm to answer in this question: How out of the ordinary is he for his age? Wed Sep 02 09:58:15 -0700 2009 113176 jmckee 1 4999348 He's pretty out of the ordinary. But I am 20 years old, and in a similar position. I will eat pretty much anything, most of my friends eat burgers and fries. Oh...and I HATED ranch dressing as a kid. Still don't like it much. Haha, tastes fake to me... :) Wed Sep 02 11:07:33 -0700 2009 4999087 114194 milkyway4679 2 5094255 Ha, milkway, you sound like me. I too hated ranch as a kid, and still dislike it. I agree, it takes fake. I am young as well (22) but have had opportunities to eat in many fine dining establishments and can appreciate good, well prepared foods of all different varieties. Miraculously, I come from a anti-foodie family.. aka a meat and potatoes family. I was raised on chicken fingers (frozen) and rotiserie chickens. My parents have never tried any sea food, wont touch any meet other than pork, chicken and beef (no, not even lamb) and cheese was banned in my house growing up b/c my mother didnt like the smell. While I agree, parents pushing their own food insecurities on their children often does cause children to be picky as well, I'm proof that there is hope for the restricted child. I turned into a foodie, I'll try absolutely anything and I love just about anything. Who knows, maybe its my own way of rebelling. Sat Oct 10 19:17:16 -0700 2009 4999348 26815 hungryabbey 1 4999435 well I have 3 kids, and they have all been raised basically the same way, presented with the same foods, and all 3 are very different in their preferences. Kid #1 is the "pickiest". He dislikes most meat, anything with lots of spice (but loves hot salsa), and prefers vegetables. He also has a freakishly good sense of smell. Kid #2 (only girl) is tiny, and eats almost anything in huge quantities. Kid #3 is one who will ask for broccoli at the store, loves certain foods, and dislikes trying new things. The kids know that I cook one meal for dinner, and that is it. There are a few exceptions, for which they can make grilled cheese or soup, etc, but not on a nightly basis. Since all 3 are exposed the same way to food, I find some of it to be personality. Kid #1 wants it plain, will try, but has a lot of dislikes. (again, freakish sense of smell seems to come into play here) . Kid #2 tries it all at least once. Kid #3 does not like to try new things. I guess my point is that in our (non-scientific) life experiment, each kid brings their own personality to the table & that despite the same exposure, some kids are just pickier than others. I don't fret about it - they won't starve. Husband & I keep making and eating good foods, trying new things, and let them come along for the ride. Wed Sep 02 11:33:58 -0700 2009 4999087 249405 elfcook 2 4999483 I agree. My brother and I were raised the same way in the same house but are about 180 degrees from each other eating wise. We were growing up, and now that we are adults. As a very young (still in diapers) child I, apparently, once threw a fit at the grocery store because my mom wouldn't buy some expensive brussel sprouts, which led to her getting chewed out by an older woman who was watching. I've always loved to eat fruits and vegetables, try new things, and eaten a wide variety of food. My brother, on the other hand, spent a good chunk of his childhood refusing to eat anything other than peanut butter and jelly, coffee yogurt, or bananas, and after moving out on his own lived completely on fast food for a year or two. I find the whole nature vs. nuture question very interesting. Obviously, both come into play. Both my brother and I have a healthy love for Thai and Japanese food, and I would imagine that has to do with my father loving them and us going out to eat at Japanese and Thai places frequently while growing up. Wed Sep 02 11:46:44 -0700 2009 4999435 72532 rds246 2 5000195 I was one of four, and our tastes differed. My problem was that I was the eat-anything kid. This meant I was landed with the gristly bits, the deformed vegetables and the burnt toast. This diet of undesirables has led to point where I eat pretty much anything, from brains to tripe, snails to oysters, chillies to tamarind, squid to raw fish, bok choy to fennel, squirrel to snake. For some odd reason I don't like sprouts. Wed Sep 02 15:34:29 -0700 2009 4999435 154622 Paulustrious 2 5000267 I agree. When it comes to this topic, some parents proudly pat themselves on the back, some wring their hands wondering what went wrong, some condemn others for doing the wrong thing but a lot of it comes down to the children. If it were as easy as do xxx and get yyy result with people, all people, society would be perfect. Wed Sep 02 16:06:30 -0700 2009 4999435 39874 chowser 3 5001262 add another here to agree. My kids have *completely* different tastes and they've grown up eating all sorts of thing in this household. Thu Sep 03 03:24:40 -0700 2009 5000267 18353 DGresh 3 5007290 Do you really think most Americans *try* to expose their kids to food beyond a vastly bought/prepared supermarket diet and the occasional "ethnic" restaurant? I definitely do not think they do. What's more, I don't think you've can raise a kid with truly broad tastes without more work than most Americans are willing to put in. Sat Sep 05 09:35:40 -0700 2009 5000267 64882 Vetter 4 5007310 Do you really think *any* parents expose their kids to food outside their own backgrounds? It's not just American parents. I work in an international school and at lunch every day you see the kids eating the same things. Most of the Korean kids are eating Cup Noodle, the American kids are eating sandwiches, the Indian kids are heating up curry in the microwave. Sat Sep 05 09:43:00 -0700 2009 5007290 86221 lulubelle 4 5007852 My comment was that a parent can give their children diverse foods and still end up with a picky child. As many have said in this thread, you can raise different children the same way and end up with different results. That doesn't mean the converse that you can give a child a restricted diet and end up with a child who isn't. I don't think it's about parents not wanting to put in the work. I think parents, as lulubelle said, feed kids the way they know. I don't know any chowhounds who feed their children only mac and cheese and chicken nuggets. I would believe that chowhounds probably have children with more diverse taste but, as evident in this thread, not every CH's child will be adventurous, at least while young. Sat Sep 05 15:21:43 -0700 2009 5007290 39874 chowser 4 5009998 I've known many Turks living in Long Island who would only eat Turkish food and occasionally go out for pizza. I've known Israelis who only eat anything Middle Eastern. In fact, one man in particular, when going for korean for his son's b-day, would wait several hours to go for Mamoun's falafel afterwards. Point being, it's unfair to generalize Americans as being picky; people worldwide are capable of being narrow minded when it comes to food. Sun Sep 06 19:03:52 -0700 2009 5007290 16149 NicoleFriedman 5 5010233 My father-in-law, who is Chinese and from Malaysia, has the most difficult time accepting any food outside of the various Chinese cuisines. This was reinforced by being offered tourist food in the US (he was a travel agent). My mom, who is from Japan, eats Japanese food as well as Chinese. Some Thai will work, but nothing spicy or heavy. Outside of that, it's almost always a no-go. Sun Sep 06 21:39:15 -0700 2009 5009998 64003 bulavinaka 5 5012589 This is very very true. I'm open minded when it comes to food, more than my siblings, but we all grew up eating the same thing. I guess I feel fortunate that my culture incorporates a lot of different ingredients and vegetables so I'm used to eating them from a young age, where as I noticed many americans specifically have issues feeding their kids vegetables (I think because they don't prepare them in a delicous manner or one of both parents seem to have issues with a food too so kids pick up on that) It's good to hear when kids are willing to try new foods and are exposed to different cuisines or at least ingredients, that helps a lot. Great topic by the way JMCKEE, thanks for opening up the discussion!! Tue Sep 08 00:04:38 -0700 2009 5009998 224081 BamiaWruz 3 5008846 Definitely agree. Just looking at most of the families i know, there are often very different food personalities among them. With my own family, we are probably all about the same level when it comes to pickiness, but we all like totally different types of food. I have no idea how that happens when we all grew up under the same roof, but that's how it is. Sun Sep 06 07:32:00 -0700 2009 5000267 157030 iluvtennis 1 4999480 I don't think that Ian is out of the ordinary. I fully agree that if you are raised on chicken fingers and mac and cheese that is all you will like. My kids are 11 and 14 and will eat anything at least once, however, they have always been expected to try new things, and are presented with a wide variety of food choices. We like to dine out as a family and skip the kids menu. They eat duck, oysters, all veggies. Wed Sep 02 11:46:20 -0700 2009 4999087 129460 shorebilly 1 4999527 Even the best-intentioned parent can end up with a picky kid, but the good news is that eating habits at age 10 (or even 17) don't necessarily foreshadow what they'll eat as an adult. My mom is a fantastic cook and will eat almost anything herself, but as a kid I stuck to the "beige diet" - pasta, cheese, chicken, carrots, & ketchup, mostly. As late as high school I refused to try Thai food (my mom's favorite). Now, at 24, I made my own larb last night (and set off the smoke alarm making the toasted rice powder for it), and can't wait to try the new Ethiopian restaurant downtown for lunch tomorrow. The OP's method may still leave you with a picky kid, but the good news is they'll likely grow out of it. Wed Sep 02 11:57:56 -0700 2009 4999087 131105 Emmmily 2 4999567 I was a very picky eater for a while as well. I don't really think it always has anything to do with your upbringing. My parents will eat about anything, but I was just not into it for most of my childhood. I eat a good deal more now than I did 10-15 years ago, so there's no guarantee that a picky kid now means a picky adult. Wed Sep 02 12:09:38 -0700 2009 4999527 107671 queencru 3 5012594 Whatever few foods I disliked as a child (lamb, bulgur, salami, and some dishes) I now crave and absolutely love. I'm obsessed with them and it all just came out of the blue one day. I feel like I was missing out, but somehow I didn't like them back then, so I believe tastes can change as an adult and mature. What I do know is that my mother is the type to try anything, and whenever she was she'd grab one of us and say "just try it" so I would. When parents or guardians make an issue out of it like the times I remember my grandma saying "she won't like it" or my aunt saying "nooo, don't try it" because she didn't like it herself then I felt that uneasiness, and it affected my decision to try it a bit. Though I still did most of the time, but I can imagine this sort of thing affecting children. My significant other is pickey, and I honestly don't want him interfering in any way with how I raise and feed the children (once we have them) :P Tue Sep 08 00:10:26 -0700 2009 4999567 224081 BamiaWruz 3 5022205 I agree, queencru and emmmily. We attempted to raise our son to be open-minded about food, but it didn't work. He was a pizza-chicken nugget-hot dog-mac & cheese eating kid. We let him because he was so skinny that I was afraid he'd starve otherwise. Now at age 21, Indian is his favorite food, anything spicy especially. He voluntarily eats salad. He'll at least try anything I cook now, and likes most of it. He even has a decent beer palate:) Don't give up hope, jmckee. You could end up with a foodie child yet! Fri Sep 11 09:55:01 -0700 2009 4999567 109573 coney with everything 2 5013593 Your "beige diet" is actually far more adventuresome than my nephew's version of it. I think he survived for five years of early childhood essentially eating plain cooked pasta and graham crackers. Parents cooked everything from scratch save for the occasional takeout Thai food from down the street, offered him everything under the sun, and never tried to limit anything to 'kid's food'. And he'd essentially hunger strike if he didn't get one of his five acceptable foods at a meal. His pediatrician eventually said to just let him have his pasta and make sure he took vitamin supplements. Nephew is now in high school, and still picky to the point where if he goes out for fast food, he'll only get fries because he doesn't like fast food sandwiches. Maybe someday he'll grow out of his insane pickiness, maybe he won't, but his limited dietary preferences aren't from a lack of effort on his parents' part. Tue Sep 08 10:32:37 -0700 2009 4999527 11781 beachmouse 3 5014424 I definitely survived a few summers at sleepaway camp as a kid on nothing but bread & butter or cream-cheese sandwiches (pb&j was a no-go - and still is actually; I still don't like peanuts). For me the real game-changer was that most of my close friends in college were Asian - peer pressure can be much more persuasive than parental pressure. I certainly didn't want to look stupid in front of my new friends by refusing to go out for Thai or insult my roommate's mother by not at least trying her saag paneer. When your nephew gets to that stage in life, he'll have a leg up over a lot of people in that while he may not have tried other foods before, at least he's seen them and seen other people enjoying them, so they're not totally foreign and scary. Now pardon me while I go cook up that bok choy for dinner :-) Tue Sep 08 15:21:17 -0700 2009 5013593 131105 Emmmily 2 5016090 I was one of those picky little buggers too. Oh, I had my love of spice and garlic, but really I was annoyingly picky, though my mom tried. Somebody mentioned a freakish sense of smell (and taste, any hint of bitter just bites at my tongue), and that was an issue for me too. I still get pissed at my tastebuds for rejecting many foods I really really WANT to like. For instance, I am fascinated with and love to cook eggs, and reportedly have a knack for it. But for the life of me I can't stand the taste! How weird is it to want to cook something for somebody else that you can't stand to eat? I have several things like that, foods I love to cook, but don't actually like the taste of. Wed Sep 09 08:32:08 -0700 2009 4999527 285186 Popkin 3 5022788 I imagine would find that very difficult to do. I need to taste the food as it is prepped / cooked so I can imagine changes it may need, or opportunities for variation. Luckily I eat almost anything. I have one of those freakish senses of smell. And I dislike most perfumes. Fri Sep 11 12:47:57 -0700 2009 5016090 154622 Paulustrious 4 5023044 "I have one of those freakish senses of smell. And I dislike most perfumes." Me too! Fri Sep 11 14:11:03 -0700 2009 5022788 285186 Popkin 2 5022265 Your post reminded me of my first pediatrician in Monterey CA. He assured this scared new mother, far from family and my own mother's advice, that my child was at least as smart as my dog. "No animal" he said "will voluntarily starve to death in the face of food. This is not a hill to die on." Fri Sep 11 10:13:54 -0700 2009 4999527 15743 Sherri 3 5022741 That wouldn't be Dr. Wooley, would it? Put healthy food in front of the kids, and more often than not they'll eat it. If my kids don't like what's served, they can always make themselves peanut butter and jelly. But not until **after** they've sat through dinner and participated in family conversation. It's amazing what they're willing to try when everybody else is enjoying it and they don't have other options at the moment. Fri Sep 11 12:33:04 -0700 2009 5022265 58743 alanbarnes 4 5023498 Talcott Bates, MD. The commonsense guru for the centuries. He absolutely advocated putting various foods out for the children to sample and let them make up their own minds; no pressure, no histronics. "This is dinner and you may leave the table when we are all finished eating". Fri Sep 11 17:55:06 -0700 2009 5022741 15743 Sherri 1 5000557 My sons are older than your 16 year old boy. I really don't know if I was blessed with a pair of non-picky eaters, was a superbly brilliant parent or what happened but we did not have the "pickies" at our home. Dinner was dinner. Everyone was allowed a couple of "No, thank you" food choices but other than these, we did not entertain daily menu selections, especially for children (chicken fingers and the like) nor did we have mealtimes as battlegrounds ("oh please honey, just take a taste and you can have your favorite dessert . You'll make mommy so happy ......."). I figure that mommie's happiness is her own business and not dependent on whether or not Jr. tries his eggplant. Our philosophy has always been that meals are a pleasant time for families to come together; to share their day's triumphs as well as the bruisings and revel in the unconditional love of your closest relatives. It is best shared around a table without benefit of TV or phone interruptions. I do not buy the "I'm too busy" argument because it makes no sense to be too busy to nuture those you love in all the best ways possible. This nuturing does not include the backseat of the family SUV watching a video after getting your paper-wrapped whatsis from the drive-thru window while mom drives you to some pseudo-important scheduled event. I live in the Phoenix AZ area and today's newspaper carries an article about a restaurant with an unlikely/upbeat children's menu. Instead of hot dogs and fries, children are offered "real food" such as ziti baked with tomatoes, mozzarella topped greens or corn & tomato pizza, chopped salad, teriyaki chicken with vegetables and brown rice, etc. When children are treated with respect, they respond in kind. There is no need to pander to whims based on advertizing schemes. Besides, chickens don't have fingers! Get the children involved in the growing and preparation of their meals and the "pickies" become history. What a wonderful young man you are rearing to respond to life's challenges with the upbeat "Let's give it a try" attitude. This is a priceless gift for the rest of his life. You are to be congratulated. P.S. be prepared for his slack-jawed amazement when he encounters the extreme "pickies" in college from some of his fellow students. Wed Sep 02 18:07:11 -0700 2009 4999087 15743 Sherri 2 5001849 He is very involved with an outstanding a capella chorus at school, and some of his friends are terribly picky. It amazes him and makes socializing with some of them a bit of a culinary crapshoot. One of his closest friends is a girl who will not eat beef, but at least she has a fairly understandable aversion. In sixth grade, she did a huge report on cows, including having a hoof, a skull, and a bone or two. She lived with them in her room for about three months, and now she says that it freaked her out and gave her what looks like a permanent refusal to eat beef. Thu Sep 03 08:15:13 -0700 2009 5000557 113176 jmckee 1 5000580 Different kids are different. My son always ate everything as a small child. My daughter ate at the same table with us, and disliked most meats and anything that had any spice, any sour flavor, and anything that was mixed with anything else. At 18, my son will pretty much still eat anything if he's hungry enough, but he doesn't go looking for 'different' food. My daughter at 16 still hates spicy, and is not a fan of any sauces, but she'll try anything once. And she loves rare filet mignon and eats sushi all the time. My takeaway here - serve everyone the same thing at meal time. I always made sure I had something on the plate that my daughter would eat, and I supplemented with lots of fruits and vegetables, but I didn't cater to her taste. Wed Sep 02 18:19:43 -0700 2009 4999087 124908 jeanmarieok 1 5000701 My god daughter will try anything. She has since she was a little girl and her favorite treat was going out for sushi. Her younger brother, on the other hand, willing ate about three things, (cheese, salmon and Ovaltine) until middle school. He is still very fussy and recently turned down a $20 bribe to eat one strawberry. The differences go way beyond food though. He has always had "issues". Soap bubbles freaked him out, the itchy tag on a shirt used to drive him to tears. He gets fidgety if the cuffs of his shirt aren't even. Basically, he is hyper-sensitive and food that seems benign to us must seem grossly textured or terribly spicy to him. I think a lot of kids suffer from this to one degree or another, and that they grow out of it. On the other hand, I do think that if kids aren't exposed to different foods, they probably won't try them on their own. So yes, parents help to create non-fussy eaters by exposure, but the kid's own taste has more to do with it. Wed Sep 02 19:12:17 -0700 2009 4999087 86221 lulubelle 1 5001040 A good rule about offspring: You Never Can Tell. I am fortunate to have two budding Chowhounds, but I realize it could have turned out differently. Of course, if the parents shriek in horror at the idea of eating something, chances are the kids will too, but there are no guarantees about progeny. Wed Sep 02 21:51:44 -0700 2009 4999087 10156 Steve 1 5002721 I was the pickiest eater out of three children but now (at 40) I'm the most adventuresome. Who knew? Having dinner with my Dad is always a blast because he's always stunned by what I order (but...but...you once stayed at the dinner table for 3 hours rather than eat those green beans/brussel sprouts/lima beans/fish) Personally, I've started to hate it when people start bragging about how 'chow-ish' their children are. Children go through all sorts of different phases and develop different likes and dislikes based on so many reasons (Dylan at daycare doesn't like it, it's not perfectly symmetrical, I don't like the color green today) and that's not even touching what simply cannot be controlled (immature digestive system which makes digesting food painful, etc.) I am simply thankful that my three old currently likes most veggies yet am also wondering why he doesn't really seem like red meat. Thu Sep 03 12:24:21 -0700 2009 4999087 15250 sebetti 2 5016304 True. I went through the "it's not perfectly symmetrical" phase. Drove my mom crazy. I wouldn't even eat a cookie if it was broken or chipped. Wed Sep 09 09:34:31 -0700 2009 5002721 227839 silvergirl 3 5047831 You wouldn't've eaten many cookies--or much else-- at my place then, but see abarnes & Sherri above. I expect you were smarter tham a dog too. Mon Sep 21 19:50:00 -0700 2009 5016304 168667 saacnmama 1 5008718 We have two kids - a 10-year old boy and 7-year old girl. Both were raised pretty much the same way - I don't think any two children are brought up identically. Our son will try anything at least once, and likes most things. Like the OP's kid, he doesn't like onions - raw ones but will eat them if well-incorporated into the dish. I think most kids fear foods like raw oysters - he destroys them. Our daughter is far more reluctant and picky. But on a relative scale compared to other kids of similar age, etc., our daughter probably rates above average, just because she is offered a fair amount of variety and seems to like a good amount of it. Her biggest problem is trying things that are new - this is part of her personality. New foods, new places, new activities - she has always been suspect and fearful of failure and of the unknown. We get a laugh out of this at times because she was honestly born like this - many of her baby pictures show her looking out of the corners of her eyes and furrowed eyebrows with this serious expression of doubt and suspect. We use this as a prod to get her to try new things. "Remember your baby pictures? Don't be a Doubting Dora - give it a try!" She laughs most times and will eventually give in. What is encouraging is that she has lately been on a streak of sorts. She has been willing to try a lot more things and finds them appealing - even oysters - raw. Sun Sep 06 05:46:08 -0700 2009 4999087 64003 bulavinaka 2 5012767 This makes me wonder (again) about my niece's attitude towards food.We are a family of foodies including my sister's husband but my sisters daughter is not just picky but almost afraid of food. My sister and I, in our various conversations about how we would raise our children, always said that what we put in front of our children was what they would eat. We found it crazy how modern day parents would cave in to their children's demands about food. WE were above all that. HA!! After years of constant arguing about food my sister now feeds her daughter the limited menu that she has demanded. Mac and cheese, bread and carrots. She will eat some fruit but is exacting about that too. The last time my brother in law tried to bring home red grapes instead of green there was no hearing the end of it. Did I mention she is 6. It didn't take long for my sister to "cave" and I don't blame her . That is one stubborn little girl (I think she takes after her Aunt) Tue Sep 08 05:29:57 -0700 2009 5008718 290660 nutzyP 3 5015263 I know this is obvious, but being a parent can be very challenging. Do we use persuasion, discipline, coercion, rewards, retract privileges, or just give in? For me, giving in is almost never an option unless it's part of a bigger strategy. I don't know if this kid's behavior goes beyond food, but when kids start to establish their boundaries and the rules at such an early age, I personally think one is creating a serious problem later on in life. It's good to be a little assertive, particularly for girls, but letting them make their own rules is something I would reconsider... Tue Sep 08 20:50:31 -0700 2009 5012767 64003 bulavinaka 4 5022109 this is the only issue with my niece. Other than the usual 6 year old stuff she is very well behaved. My sister has never given in on anything else. This wasjust too much and finally her Dr. recomended she just relax on this issue. I think that my niece only has issues with food. I worry about her. Fri Sep 11 09:24:33 -0700 2009 5015263 290660 nutzyP 5 5023680 I didn't want to sound preachy but it's good to know that your niece is otherwise a good kid. We've seen our fair share of kids ruling their parents, and it's a road to ruin for everyone. Fri Sep 11 19:33:25 -0700 2009 5022109 64003 bulavinaka 6 5047844 I don't want to preach either, but lots of studies of anorexia point to parents letting food be a power struggle as a cause/early indicator. Extremely compliant girls (in non food issues) are particularly prone to it. Mon Sep 21 19:55:10 -0700 2009 5023680 168667 saacnmama 7 5048378 My mom avoided forcing me to eat anything at a young age for that very reason. I was an extremely skinny child until puberty (around third percentile for my height/age) and my mom thought that as long as I was eating something, she didn't want to go into the specifics for fear that it would only worsen the situation. Tue Sep 22 05:31:20 -0700 2009 5047844 107671 queencru 7 5050883 Of course lots of studies indicate that self-esteem is an issue and that the conflict with food is only one of the symptoms of conflicts. Forcing kids to eat something is one thing. Letting the kid berate the parent for not bringing a specific item home is another: >>The last time my brother in law tried to bring home red grapes instead of green there was no hearing the end of it. Did I mention she is 6.<< This is not just a food issue - IMHO, this is an issue of respecting one's parent. Tue Sep 22 19:18:11 -0700 2009 5047844 64003 bulavinaka 8 5054313 Starving oneself is a 'symptom' of control issues with much starker, more dangerous consequences than other symptoms of anything else I can think of! I'm not saying to rush out and buy the kid's favorite food immediately, but that kids shouldn't be forced to eat things they don't want. If you were coming to my house, part of my prep would be to think about what you like to eat and to try to have some of that on hand for you. If I got the 'wrong' kind of grapes, and I found out what your preference was, I'd try to remember and get your favorite next time. If the ones you rejected were my favorites, or I didn't like your faves, I'd probably serve them together fo us each to choose to be adventuresome or stick with things we're comfortable with according to our mood that day. Why shouldn't I do the same for a small person who lives with me? I'm not saying kids should be permitted to berate one's parent, but 6 is an age when kids are learning and experimenting with language (we're living overseas and my kid knows more "dirty words" in German than in English--wasn't interested in them before), so nasty language about food should be handled the same way as nasty words on any other topic. In our case, modeling appropriate ways of expressing the same thought helped for a while, but now that I know he's more aware of what is and isn't appropriate, I insist he use appropriate phrasing (but there too, I prefer to avoid power struggles that are waged for their own sake). Thu Sep 24 00:37:05 -0700 2009 5050883 168667 saacnmama 9 5056869 I think you and I might be interpreting the post-in-question differently. Thu Sep 24 21:19:45 -0700 2009 5054313 64003 bulavinaka 1 5014006 Most kids will pick up the family vibe when it comes to food. But that doesn't mean that they will pick identical things as a sibling to be picky or open-minded about. My experiences in raising kids in a food-adventuresome household are that kids can and will use food as a mechanism of control. If things were not going well at school, I could always tell because only safe "comfort" foods were going down well. Moral: don't try out that new octupus recipe the first week back to school! Returning to the international theme: I was really taken aback when we lived in Italy. Some of the best cooks I knew turned out to be really unadventurous about cuisine OTHER than their own. And I don't just mean other than Italian food. There are wars about regional differences. Our friends from the Abruzzo came with us to visit family in Puglia, one "province" away, and turned up their noses at much of what was on offer. Their conversation in the car on the way home about the food they had been served that weekend verged on the scathing. You can see a bit of this in the Jamie Oliver "does" Italy TV show.. Maybe it is this fierce regional pride that makes the food of Italy so wonderful, but there is nothing pickier than an Italian kid out of his element! Tue Sep 08 13:08:02 -0700 2009 4999087 24738 LJS 1 5014090 Some people just like things that others don't. I think sensitivity to certain flavors and/or textures may play a substantial role. For example, my 12-year-old daughter has a hard time with anything that has even a hint of bitterness. Funky smells (tripe, coriander seed, thousand-year eggs, etc.) also give her a hard time. But the notion that something is "icky" regardless of its flavor or texture is a matter of upbringing. I mean, why is it okay to eat chicken legs, but not chicken feet? It's a strictly social construct. Taking upbringing out of the picture, I think kids who like a variety of things are more willing to try different things. For them, the risk of trying something different has more often than not been met with the reward of finding a new tasty food. Somebody who has numerous dislikes, on the other hand, has lower odds of encountering a new food they enjoy. Happily both of my kids are willing to try different things, although the 15-year-old likes a lot more of what she tries than her younger sister. She found a new favorite food this weekend - jellyfish. It was dressed with sesame oil and chile paste and served alongside some beef shank at a local Cantonese place. She's agitating to go back soon... Tue Sep 08 13:31:54 -0700 2009 4999087 58743 alanbarnes 1 5015564 Can't tell you how normal your son is, but mine has always loved broccoli and onions, but won't touch cheese. I'm using your post as a place to vent. My 6-yr-old son has been lots of different places with me, likes a few foods you wouldn't expect of his age group, used to have a very adventuresome palate and now is settling into a more narrow routine which I assume he will grow out of if I keep exposing him to lots of different stuff and eating a variety of types of things myself. Sherri, I do a lot of the things you mention; he's very dear to me, and our household is just the two of us, so we prized dinnertimes as a chance to connect with one another and talk. We discovered one of his long-time favorite foods when I asked at a Thai restaurant what they recommended for my then 2-yr-old; when they pointed out to the chicken nuggets, etc I asked for Thai food for kids and they looked confused. I finally asked if they had grown up in Thailand (yes) and what they ate when they were little. That brought smiles and pad see ewe. A year ago he wouldn't eat breadcrusts; the other day he ate nearly all his pizza crust and when I said I was glad to see that, he snapped up that bite too. I think we're heading in a good direction. I certainly would never beg or force a kid to eat even "3 little bites" of something they don't like--too much has been written on anorexics using food as a way to get control, and the battle over diet as one aspect of serious health issues involving self worth and strong familial relations. So now my gripe about my mother: On a recent visit, when plan A for dinner failed, we ordered pizza. She managed to make that more of a production than I make out of cooking a whole dinner. One of the jobs she invented for herself was to dish out the salad, find out what dressing everyone wanted, and place the dressing near their place (at a table of 4 I find very little difference between "near" and "far"). Anyway, at last she announced dinner was ready and after we were all seated, my son made some comment about the cukes in the salad and I realized he didn't have any. I served him some right away, at which point he refused it. Grandma says he proved her right--he wouldn't eat it any way. Seems to me he would've gone right along with the assumption implicit in a bowl at his place, and would've had at least a few bites (though he probably would not like the tomato these days). My point--give the kid the benefit of a doubt, make the default be 'eating' and force him to go tot hte effort of 'rejecting' (but I don't think kids should be pushed to eat anything they don't want, either.) Wed Sep 09 03:27:14 -0700 2009 4999087 168667 saacnmama 2 5015996 My daughter, now a really good and adventurous scratch cook with her own food-oriented business, went through a picky period at age 6...after a long period of being up for anything on her plate. I think it is just one of the healthy signs of growing up ("hey, I am still part of this family unit, but I can choose what I like and thats part of what makes me who I am"). I did as you mention you are doing, and kept offering an array of choices. I did discover that, while going through a phase of eating ONLY fish sticks and PB&J at home, she was sampling sushi at a pal's house! I have all sort of good resolutions for how I will host my grandchildren at my table when that happy day arrives. Mostly, they involve doing exactly what my kids seem to want me to do when it comes to feeding THEIR children. But Moms aren't mind-readers...I know it can be trying (hey, my Mom lived with us and my husband's mom lived next door!) but try to see that whole cucumber thing from her perspective...maybe she was casting her mind back to when you were little and didn't like cukes?). Moms, as you will discover, carry a lot of baggage! Wed Sep 09 07:53:54 -0700 2009 5015564 24738 LJS 3 5047866 I certainly that my mom carries a lot of baggage! My son's a lot like me. She loves us, but if we were strangers, I think she'd avoid getting to know us. If it'd only been the salad (we've both always loved cukes, which is why he commented) I'd get over it faster but she spent the whole visit making up ways he was being difficult or trying to use him as an excuse--"oh, looks like we should head home b/c kiddo isn't enjoying the museum and doesn't want to gofor a walk by the river" instead of just saying she was bored or tired or whatever. Mon Sep 21 20:03:07 -0700 2009 5015996 168667 saacnmama 3 5047880 P. S. I love the sushi story! Mon Sep 21 20:10:35 -0700 2009 5015996 168667 saacnmama 1 5017075 I once read that kid taste buds are far more sensitive than our aged ones. So it isn't surprising that some of them are picky when it comes to certain flavors. WIth my own kids, I am less concerned with them liking any one particular dish but rather getting then used to trying new things, experiencing food of different cultures, and food shopping so that they have direct contact with new ingredients. My 11 yo is not particularly interested in food but the other day at the farmers market he sought me out to make sure I would purchase some cucumbers that he had sampled. The 7 yo loves to eat and cook and often volunteers to food shop. Over the weekend we were at a large Asian grocery and I gave him a list of ingredients to hunt down. He came back with jalapenos, bean sprouts, and tofu, then set off to tackle the fish counter. While I would prefer that they happily eat what I prepare for them, I am ok with planting the seed of food curiousity and seeing how it grows. Wed Sep 09 13:28:40 -0700 2009 4999087 280735 tcamp 1 5020807 My son is in his early 20s now and when he was small, I always stuck to the "never force him to eat anything and never assume he won't eat something just because he's a kid" principles. He'd usually try most things, especially after seeing someone else eat them a time or two, and he's grown into a fairly broad eater. He'll eat almost any kind of meat or seafood and most vegetables, though he has his quirks: he won't eat mac and cheese, lasagna, or any other form of pasta with cheese. And he does feed himself with Hot Pockets and similar microwavable crap happily, though doesn't turn down better stuff if offered. That being said, recently I went to the Whole Foods next to my doctor's office to console myself after a fairly unpleasant bit of testing. I was eating some of my kalamata olives in front of the TV when I got home, when I noticed him watching me. "Oh, I'm sorry, do you want some? Do you like black olives?" "I'm not sure. Let me try one." He popped it in his mouth, bit down, then literally ran into the kitchen, spat it out into the sink, and rinsed his mouth out with the sink spray. Later, after dinner, his grandfather and I were tucking into another of my purchases, "two bite" coconut macaroons. "Want a cookie, D? They're good." "Um, no offense, mom...but after this afternoon, I just don't trust you any more." :-) Thu Sep 10 18:11:45 -0700 2009 4999087 1108005 xdrea 2 5022279 LOL! xdrea, that story about your son is just priceless! I'm afraid I would have done the same thing as your son (although not sure I'd have used the sink sprayer to rinse out my mouth!) Love olive oil; detest olives. But I would still trust you. ;-) As for myself - no children of my own. But growing up, we ate what was put in front of us, or we didn't eat. Children won't starve themselves. But I also don't think they should be catered to. Family dinners meant just that - we all ate as a family and ate the same thing. We had to at least try something on our plate. Mom always made something that we'd eat, but often would introduce something new (or Dad would if he brought home an idea from his foreign film trip travels). Most of the time it worked, sometimes it didn't. My sister detests peas to this day. Lovely, fresh, green peas! Fine - more for me! My first boyfriend's younger brother only ate cheese sandwiches with the crusts cut off, plain cheese pizza, plain chicken, and I think mashed potatoes. He was 16 when I met him! I eventually coaxed him into trying something I had made for his brother, and he surprisingly liked it! Don't know if he ever grew out of the bland diet, however. So get kids to try something - it won't kill them. :-) And they just may like it! Fri Sep 11 10:16:57 -0700 2009 5020807 10532 LindaWhit 3 5030187 xdrea, I gave my son a kumquat (which I just love) from a neighborhood tree once when we were walking over to grandma's house about five blocks away. Poor kid spit it right out and gagged all the way to grandma's house. I felt terrible, but he did get over it. He was a pain in the butt about food for a few years but eventually having his folks and one grandma who gave him lots of opportunities for adventurous eating paid off. He's almost 21 now and I'd call him a chowhound. But as a lot of people here have pointed out, it's probably as much luck as anything, I really think. Mon Sep 14 19:22:48 -0700 2009 5022279 105625 EWSflash 1 5029819 I do think that it's important to remember that people's tastes are different, tastesbuds do develop over time, and not everyone is as enamored with food as chowhounds are, lol. And to reassure all the parents of picky eaters out there, my brother was one of the pickiest eaters around with downright weird eating habits. He would go through cycles of living on fried chicken and hamburgers and then periods of living on iceberg lettuce and white rice. He would not eat Chinese food growing up (challenging since my family is Chinese), and it was very frustrating to my parents. Sometimes I'm amazed he didn't develop scurvy in his teen years. At some point in his early twenties, quite on his own and with very little outside prodding, he started trying different foods. As an adult, he'll try almost anything, and his palate is actually quite a bit broader than my parents'. Japanese, Thai, Ethiopian, Italian, Indian, etc., he really likes most kinds of food. A lot of Cantonese food still bothers his stomach, but most other Chinese is okay. Mon Sep 14 16:55:51 -0700 2009 4999087 26708 sidwich 2 5047877 Do you think he had a physical reason not to like Chinese food all along? Did whatever hurts his stomach in Cantonese food show up in your hhold a lot? Mon Sep 21 20:08:38 -0700 2009 5029819 168667 saacnmama 1 5054510 I was an exceptionally picky eater for most of my childhood. My parents are not to blame at all; they exposed me to all kinds of delicious food from all over the globe. My mother was heroic in feeding me pasta with pesto for something like 3 years straight, followed by 3 years of tacos. I did not like peanut butter or jelly or traditional kids food including potatoes. I ate white skinless boneless chicken, many vegetables but not zucchini, and rice. And then at my grandfather's bbq at age 15 or so, I was hungry. The tandori chicken was an elegant shade of pink and I had fallen under the sway of Diana Vreeland's bon mots including "pink is the navy blue of India." And, shockingly it was delicious. From there Indian food entered the rep. Sundried tomatoes and even fresh tomatoes followed suit. It took me until 23, living in Paris, before I ate a non fried potato. Chronologically, I had and enjoyed blood pudding before potatoes. I'm still picky in odd ways now at 30, not that you'd tell from my reputation as a cook and adventurous eater. Thu Sep 24 05:57:40 -0700 2009 4999087 22624 relizabeth 1 5056032 My daughter is almost 17 and will eat just about anything (especially seafood). Here are some examples of how we created a food enthusiast- -Now that I look back at how I raised her (I never approved of the US custom of leaving small children with teenagers as babysitters) so we always took her with us to parties. And she ate whatever was served.... -We traveled with her extensively and to exotic destinations since she was a toddler and we all ate only local food. -We stared her with solid foods at 3months, with home cooked soups (usually chicken or veal), never anything from a jar. -We also never buy fast food, which I think is the worst sin of our society. -Oh, and I never said in front of her when she was young (as did many parents I know) -"I hate fish". And the child wouldn't touch fish for years, because mom didn't like it. Just a sad example, but so true. Thu Sep 24 14:19:10 -0700 2009 4999087 147538 polish_girl 1 5073316 This is fascinating. I've always thought that if parents ate everything happily, then the kids would too. And it is pretty much been that way for my family. The 3 kids, now grown, were happy, pretty adventurous and eclectic eaters. They delighted in church dinners where they could go down the line and load up on whatever they wanted. Every day they saw DH eat pretty much anything I made. Since I always told them I was a good cook (!) and no one disputed it, they believed it. I became aware of preferences as they got older, but I let them have some say in what they liked. We didn't have any dinnertime fights. Thu Oct 01 16:48:19 -0700 2009 4999087 134265 sueatmo 1 5076420 I don't have any children to comment on but I grew up with an English Mum in Canada who never let garlic cross the threshold of her house and when I wanted to eat spaghetti my Mum was horror struck. When I put ketchup on my pasta [circa early 70's] I thought I was so experimental. The one thing we did have was curry a couple of times a year and I thank her for that passion in my life. Once I was living on my own I loved trying all sorts of new foods - some I liked/loved and others I never enjoyed but grateful to be in control of what I was eating. Conversely [they NEVER had curry], my husband grew-up in a home where salt and pepper were the only condiments allowed and his Austrian Mum prepared a very meat/two veg diet for their entire childhood. His Mum didn't like fish so they rarely had fish unless they were at a restaurant which wasn't often. When he went to university his friend told me that he would not eat pizza or Chinese takeaway! Then I came into the picture and he is much better than me now trying new foods. We are always trying new ethnic foods/ingredients as well as working on the foods we love. We just spent three weeks in Italy/France/UK basically eating our way through Italy and France. So, still not sure about the nature/nurture theory but considering I met him at 26 as a very fussy eater and given how dramatically he changed I'm going for nurture. I'm happy to say we are both in love with good food - fancy or not. Sat Oct 03 09:28:52 -0700 2009 4999087 11319 Island Girl 1 5098639 Well, my own "social experiment" with my twins definitely leans toward the "nature" side of the argument, that many others on here have affirmed - that kids have their own food personalities. My twins are now almost 3, but from very early on, were always fed the same foods. Now, one is ridiculously picky (he's a little carb monster) and the other will eat anything and everything (how many 2 year olds request the arugula from your salad? He also loves lentils, salmon, onions, broccoli, etc.!) So, it's interesting how kids can be so different in their likes and dislikes. Some of the stories of what things picky kids eat remind me of my husband's nephew, who to this day (he's 11 now) subsists on ketchup sandwiches on white bread. How on earth he survives is a mystery to me!! Mon Oct 12 20:23:16 -0700 2009 4999087 185565 chuang 1 5101286 Our grandson is 14. He'll eat anything except asparagus (which he dislikes) and scallops (which he's allergic to). We've taken him to dinners everywhere since he was about 5 and he orders for himself from the menu. His parents owned a restaurant from before he was born until he was about 4, when he became big brother to his sister. He thought everything was chicken when he was 2-3 years old, because our son would tell him he was eating "mahi chicken" or "lamb-chicken" or "sweetbreads chicken" etc. He'll try anything. His sister, on the other hand, only orders chicken fingers, burgers or spaghetti when she's with us. We keep thinking she'll change when she gets older, but I don't know if that'll happen in our lifetimes. Tue Oct 13 19:30:20 -0700 2009 4999087 92091 bucksguy14