HOME > Chowhound > Kosher >
Brewing beer, curing meat, or making cheese?
TELL US

yom tov/shabbat friendly ovens

k
koshergourmetmart Aug 20, 2009 03:47 PM

we are looking to purchase new ovens. I would like one where the oven controls are manual (that controls the oven to temperature such as 250, 300 etc) so I can use it on yom tov. most seem electric and shut off after 12 hours (which is bad for shabbat) the only oven I have seen is wolf. Any suggestions of other companies that have this type of manual controls?

  1. s
    SoCal Mother Aug 3, 2012 10:10 AM

    I have the Kitchenaid. Yes, "Sabbath Mode" is mostly really YomTov mode but the Shabbat advantage is that the light doesn't go on when I open it.

    I put my food in before Shabbat, set it to go off approx. 15 min before we get home from shul and then I set it on Sabbath mode. If I didn't do that last step it would beep when it shut off and the light would go on when I opened the door.

    For Yomtov the newer models actually have a display that tells you what buttons to press for what temperature.

    When you first purchase the oven you need to disable the 12-hr shut off.

    Negatives: The shelves are a little bent in the middle from 4 years of overuse. The inside of the oven no longer looks blue and pretty like it did when it was new.

    1. l
      lukfam Aug 3, 2012 09:59 AM

      That is really great advice! I would never have thought of it!

      1. j
        jerirl Aug 3, 2012 08:30 AM

        Here is something else to consider when selecting an oven - how user friendly is it? I got a new GE gas oven a couple years ago. It has a "Sabbath mode" so you can leave it on a set amount of time at a given temperature as long as you want and then go off. I use this feature on a regular basis, but I still have to look at the direction book every time! (This from a person who is generally very techie oriented.) It involves pressing two buttons at once, waiting, pressing several other buttons in a given order and then waiting to see if the proper symbol appears. Oh, and yoiu can't really be sure what the temperature is as it won't show on the display.

        So my advice is to ask to have the Sabbath mode demonstrated so you can see how complicated it is.

        1. l
          lukfam Aug 2, 2012 01:30 PM

          My daughter and son-in-law just purchased their first home and will be looking to replace the ovens. I am not sure what type - wall or stand alone, but I would appreciate any comments you have that would help in their decision. Also any comments on a built in fridge choice?

          1. David11238 Jul 31, 2012 10:43 AM

            Why not speak with the folks at AJMadison.com? From what I understand, they specialize in yom tov/shabbat ovens.

            1 Reply
            1. re: David11238
              d
              DeisCane Jul 31, 2012 11:39 AM

              I know the new Electrolux lines all tout shabbos modes. We are doing our kitchen this fall and they are in the lead currently.

            2. h
              helou Jul 30, 2012 03:25 PM

              Yes, we all agree that Sabath mode is a misnomer. They should change it to Holiday Mode, as it is called on my Kitchenaid refrigerator.

              Having said that, almost every manufacturer's definition of Sabbath mode is a misnomer. It runs the gamut from simply overriding the 12 hour shut off to being able to raise and lower the temperature all through yom tov.

              Look, nothing will ever again be as convenient as having a gas pilot light which is constantly on that many of us grew up with.

              Like Debby T, I too have a Viking, with a dial, and it's wonderful. When the indicator light is on you can turn the dial to raise the temp, light is off you can lower the temp, and even shut it off if you won't be needing it anymore that yom tov. I could not manage a 3 day Shabbos/yom-tov without it.

              1. m
                MaineKosher Jul 30, 2012 02:23 PM

                We made the mistake of buying a Bosch HBL8650UC oven, without looking into just what they meant by Sabbath mode. It is a beautiful oven, but the Sabbath mode is useless. It is for 1 oven only, and you cannot change or adjust the temperature. What a waste!

                Other ovens out there have Sabbath mode for both ovens, and you can set the temp where you want it. What we used to do was, for yom tov, set one oven at a warming temp, like 190, and another at cooking temp, like 375. So for the second day we could put something in the oven and have it cook fresh. The Sabbath mode kept the lights, fans, and displays off, and delayed element start when the door was open.

                Bosch really ought to rethink its Sabbath mode, and I encourage all of us to look into competitors' products.

                3 Replies
                1. re: MaineKosher
                  queenscook Jul 30, 2012 05:11 PM

                  I'm not clear on what you want a Sabbath mode to do; can you explain?

                  1. re: queenscook
                    m
                    masteraleph Aug 1, 2012 09:24 PM

                    Some of the "Sabbath Mode" ovens (the GE ones that the star-k supervises, for example) include what would better be called a "yom tov" mode: the ability to adjust the temperature while in sabbath mode, without changing the display. The double wall ovens can also be set separately, which could give you a warming oven and a cooking oven on yom tov. I'm assuming that's what mainekosher is missing.

                    1. re: masteraleph
                      queenscook Aug 1, 2012 11:10 PM

                      Yes, but the point is that changing the temperature is expressly forbidden on shabbat; that's why a blech is used, which covers the flame as a reminder that you cannot raise or lower it; some cover the knobs as well, as a further reminder.

                      You might notice above, from my replies to this thread 3 years ago, that I myself have a GE, and use it as I described. But MaineKosher seems to want something to allow changing the temperature on shabbat itself, which one can choose to do, of course, but not within standard shabbat observance, whether or not the display changes.

                2. m
                  mggn Aug 21, 2009 08:24 AM

                  We have a Kitchen-aid with 'shabbat mode' that we are happy with. The other responders are correct in saying that Shabbat mode is a misnomer, it is really only acceptable for Yom Tov and yes the temp. can be adjusted in this mode.

                  2 Replies
                  1. re: mggn
                    queenscook Aug 25, 2009 08:03 AM

                    I don't think the Shabbat mode is a misnomer; we set it before shabbos to keep food warm until we are ready to have our Friday night meal. As long as the food is cooked before shabbos begins, it's not a problem to keep it in a warm oven. We calculate what time we will finish with our soup course, and set it to that time, which then turns the oven off. The Shabbat mode allows us to then open the oven, without the halachic problem of closing an oven which is still on, and it also allows the avoidance of setting the regular cook-time feature, which would also shut the oven off, but would beep unendingly once we were again allowed to open & close the oven to take out the food.

                    1. re: queenscook
                      c
                      chicagomaven Aug 25, 2009 08:23 AM

                      Another use on Shabbos is for those that leave a cholent, for example, in the oven all night to use for lunch on Shabbos day. Without the Shabbos mode, the oven's safety feature will turn off the oven, usually in 12 hours.

                  2. d
                    DebbyT Aug 21, 2009 08:07 AM

                    I'm told that there are many rabbis who are not in agreement with the Star-K regarding the use of these ovens. At any rate, I think they are only for Yom Tov, NOT Shabbat.
                    We have a Viking...not digital, purely analog...dials and a red light. Red light ON, oven heating, red light OFF, on stand-by...old fashioned, but it makes my life easier.

                    1 Reply
                    1. re: DebbyT
                      g
                      ganeden Aug 21, 2009 09:35 AM

                      BS"D

                      Rav Heineman and the Star K are in disagreement with the vast majority of poskim on this issue. The vast majority hold that with the electronic oven controls on Shabbos Mode, one cannot change the temperature of the oven on Yom Tov, even without a digital readout of the temperature, even with a delay. Consequently, the electronic controls for the Shabbos mode only allow half of the claimed convenience features. However, they are still worthwhile, in that the automatic turn-off after 12 hours is disabled, allowing multiple-day cooking. So as long as one figures out a temperature which will meet all of his requirements, it is a matter of setting and forgetting until after Yom Tov and/or Shabbos.

                    2. r
                      rockycat Aug 21, 2009 06:59 AM

                      My Bosch dual-fuel convection oven has a "Sabbath" mode, indicated on the readout by a little menorah icon. What it effectively means is that, rather than the oven shutting itself off after 12 hours as a safety measure, you can override the safety and keep it going up to 36 hours. The warming drawer on the oven can go on Sabbath mode also, either together with or independent of the main oven.

                      As an everyday oven, I'm lovin' it. I love the convection part. It's just great.

                      1. v
                        vallevin Aug 20, 2009 06:53 PM

                        Just an additional thought, I just had to replace the igniter on my 4 year old oven. The service guy said it was due to keeping the oven on Shabbos, and that the oven was just not meant for that kind of heavy duty use, even though for Shabbos I keep it at 180
                        (Halachic disclaimer...I only use it for Friday night to take the warm food out, I don't put in).

                        Most ovens now have a feature to over-ride the 12 hour shut off and as for Yom Tov, I do all my cooking ahead of time any way and keep it at 325 for reheating.

                        1. u
                          UWSFoodie Aug 20, 2009 06:16 PM

                          Many of the "shabbath mode" ovens can't actually be used on shabbat., but are awesome for yontiff. When I renovated my kitchen I found this link to be absolutely indispensable. check it out!! you will find it extremely helpful. There is also a dishwasher and counter top section on the website. be sure to ask your Rav how he poskins though. GL!
                          http://www.star-k.org/cons-appl.htm

                          1. queenscook Aug 20, 2009 05:30 PM

                            We have a GE with shabbat/YT mode, which we are happy with.

                            Show Hidden Posts