644995 Sat Aug 15 22:42:37 -0700 2009 45 45 Japan 0 4950008 So, after weeks of exhaustive research, I narrowed my restaurant list from 96 to 45 and, finally, to an oh-so-close 23. I only have 14 days and so will try to visit some of my choices for lunch. Now, my question to those in the know: Of the restaurants listed, which would you strongly recommend I go to for dinner and which would be just as fine for a lunch visit? In other words, would I really be missing out if I were to only go with the limited lunch menu? Argent Aso Ginza La Tour HIrosaku Kyubey Les Creations Narisawa Pierre Gagnaire Quintessence Reikasai Ristorante Aso Sawada Tateru Yoshino Shiba Yonemura Any of the aforementioned you'd steer clear of or replace with a better choice? Sat Aug 15 22:42:37 -0700 2009 234190 BaronDestructo 1 4950036 Let me help you narrow things down a bit for you. I wouldn't hit Argento Aso and Ristorante Aso in the same trip. Drop Argento. Fine to very good, but not quite the rarefied home office in Daikanyama. For sushi, Kyubei is fine, but you can do quite a bit better, I think. Sat Aug 15 23:28:27 -0700 2009 4950008 161889 Uncle Yabai 2 4950042 Thanks. For sushi dinners, I'm eyeing Saito, Musashi, Masa, and considering a return visit to Kanesaka (which I loved but, as I said, I've already sampled). What are your thoughts on Sawada? Is there an Italian restaurant you'd recommend in place of Argento? Thanks again. Sat Aug 15 23:43:05 -0700 2009 4950036 234190 BaronDestructo 3 4950116 Never been to Sawada, so I can't comment. I found Kanesaka only OK, not a match for Mizutani or for Dai San Harumi. As for Italian, the head office in Daikanyama, of course: Ristorante Aso. Sun Aug 16 02:55:40 -0700 2009 4950042 161889 Uncle Yabai 3 4951989 The "sushi masa" at Kudanshita, It is a "edomae-sushi style". The price/value is good. The thing is the sushi base rice referred as "shari" is different in each sushi place and you will be proud to aknowledge it. "Sushi masa" use red vinegar and salt. The course is orthodox. I was very surprised of the chef honesty on the phone and on the choice they have on the day. Hope it helps. Sun Aug 16 22:08:55 -0700 2009 4950042 1082452 Ninisix 4 4952087 A little precision on the previous post, the value/price is to go for lunch at 1st at "sushi masa", it will cost you under 10,000.-yens for the makase onigiri. For the second choice, you can try one of the best the perfectionist "sukiyabashi jiro Ginza" or the expert Tuna "Mizutani". I really think "Sukiyabashi jiro" is a perfectionist. You will have to speak or have a friend who speaks japanese. Sun Aug 16 23:53:02 -0700 2009 4951989 1082452 Ninisix 1 4950621 Pick either Argento or Ristorante ASO but not both. They belong to the same restaurant group, so there are some similarities. I tried lunch on both places; Argento has lunch set and ala carte menu but Ristorante just served lunch set (very good value for money for lunch, I recall). Argento has a more urban and sophisticated atmosphere while Ristorante is more relax and charming. I probably agree with Uncle Yabai that Ristorante has a slight edge. But I had slightly better Italian experience at Aroma Fresco but that is for dinner only. I would suggest lunch for Hirosaku and Quientessence. The reason is simply better value for money. Dinner at Hirosaku is very expensive, be ready to spend close or more than 30k per person. If you have 14 days left, I don't think you will be able to get a table at Quintessence; it is one of the hardest place to get a reservation in Tokyo; you should have done so 2 months ago. Sawada is my favorite sushiya. It is way better than Kyubei, in my opinion (based on one visit to Kyubei 2 years ago). But just warning: Sawada is very expensive, even for lunch too. I think you can budget 10-20k for Kyubei but get ready to spend close or more than 30k at Sawada. Sun Aug 16 10:06:04 -0700 2009 4950008 130720 FourSeasons 2 4950901 Hi FourSeasons, Thanks. I considered Aroma Fresco but heard mixed opinions, from those who loved it to those who were disappointed. How long ago was your experience? If recent, then I'll certainly slot it in. I don't get to Tokyo until the last week of November so I'm finalizing my restaurnat wish-list 3 months in advance so I can contact my hotel and have them ensure I can get a table when I blow into town. Sun Aug 16 12:43:36 -0700 2009 4950621 234190 BaronDestructo 3 4951865 I was in Aroma last November. I think it is fantastic; probably not fair to compare to both ASO as I had the dinner tasting menu there. Ok, misunderstood your original post. Thought you will be leaving in 14 days time. To reply your post again, I think you will certainly miss something in lunch set menu (my guess is 20-30% or so in ingredients/quantity) but you will save 50-70% on your wallet. (This rule does not apply in Sushi places) Sun Aug 16 20:42:44 -0700 2009 4950901 130720 FourSeasons 4 4951905 Which part? The missing ingredients/quantity or the savings? Sun Aug 16 21:07:34 -0700 2009 4951865 234190 BaronDestructo 5 4952085 What I mean is that you probably won't get that much saving for high end sushi at lunch time. Sun Aug 16 23:43:50 -0700 2009 4951905 130720 FourSeasons 6 4952129 FourSeasons, nice post. Yes, in fact, the prices for lunch and for dinner on high end sushi are the same. If you go for lunch, or for dinner, the cost will be the same. What do you think about the choice of a classic orthodox sushi place at 1st and a high end sushi as 2nd. Not on the same day... Mon Aug 17 02:23:33 -0700 2009 4952085 1082452 Ninisix 7 4954944 What would you recommendin either case - classic and high end? Mon Aug 17 22:48:53 -0700 2009 4952129 234190 BaronDestructo 6 4954945 So the variety of sushi will be no different if I go at lunch then? If so, that opens things up considerably. Mon Aug 17 22:49:37 -0700 2009 4952085 234190 BaronDestructo 7 4955059 Hum... The sought on the "classic" and the "high end" was an experience things Your experience might be different, as I undestood the sushi made for your taste is Kanesaka... If you try it again, you will remember the fit to your taste and after then try another one. The "classic" one, I will say the classic Edomae at Akasaka Bentenyamamiyakozushi souhonten and the Sukiyabashi Jiro Ginza. The Sukiyabashi Jiro Ginza will begin with the "shiromi" piece and "ika" as a first light pieces with the vinegar accent... and after you will have for example the "aji" (some accent of ginger),.... Tue Aug 18 01:49:27 -0700 2009 4954945 1082452 Ninisix 8 4955063 Asakusa not akasaka ( the remember of todays =Aronia) Tue Aug 18 02:00:26 -0700 2009 4955059 1082452 Ninisix 1 4950659 http://r.tabelog.com/tokyo/A1309/A130902/13004141/dtlrvwlst/0-2-0-2/ this sushi place has been rising in tabelog... sushi hashiguchi.. may i recommend aroma fresca, the whole experience seems very enjoyable... i seem to miss this place now(the basilico ravioli, beef steak and the strawberry soup)... much more than ryugin(although the food was imho better than aroma) quintessense , mizutani , saito , kondo tempura... the 3 months advance booking seems to be the hardest among all... Sun Aug 16 10:32:25 -0700 2009 4950008 149699 Lucil 2 4950903 Basilico ravioli sounds great. Sold! Sun Aug 16 12:44:24 -0700 2009 4950659 234190 BaronDestructo 1 4955479 I've only been to a few on that list <sniff> and would say - Yonemura is worthwhile for dinner (though potentially very fast if you're at the counter, so you could do one of those horrible 2-dinner nights if you paired it with something like Koju or l'Osier that's close by) - Quintessence left me cold. I would only go for lunch, since I think you'll get his famous dishes (at any rate, ask for the cheese bavarois with macadamias, and especially the meringue ice cream) - If La Tour is anything like its sister, La Tourelle, you might get a tasty history lesson in Japanese French cooking from days gone by, but it won't be very exciting. - Tateru Yoshino in Shiodome is again the cheaper sibling; I only had lunch there and thought it was very attractive but not especially delicious. Dinner might be better, especially if you go to Shiba. I wasn't yet writing about meals when I went to La Tourelle and TY Shiodome... Tue Aug 18 07:13:27 -0700 2009 4950008 248799 jem589 2 4955781 Hey jem, Where were you writing about meals? Is it a site? If so, a link would be muc appreciated. Thanks for the input, everyone. So far, my list breaks down thus: DINNERS: Aroma Fresca, Aronia de Takazawa, Les Creations de Narisawa, Ristorante Aso, Tapas Molecular Bar, Yonemura, Yamada Chikara. LUNCHES: Sawada and Quintessence. They're shaping up nicely. Will do more online research on some of my other choices. Are there any must-eats I'm missing? Any egregious dining errors above? Thanks again. Tue Aug 18 08:47:33 -0700 2009 4955479 234190 BaronDestructo 3 4956553 the goat milk bavarois or meringue ice cream did not hit a high note on me.. quintessense is still famous in japan for its meat courses and his boudin noir wif foie gras.. i like the fish main ( which was the best dish i had in japan..the accompanying sauce was great, i think it was dill and seaweed.. cant remember) .. also i mentioned about kyoaji (touted as the best kaiseki ryori in tokyo and rejected michelin 3 stars).. not too sure if fourseasons had tried it yet.... try and fit ryugin into the list.. it is a must try for me as well... every ingredient is top end.. for lunch u can try mid end italian joints( like la bettola da ochiai, the most friendly waitress in japan, note: friendly, not polite :).. u can see her profile in the website, kei...) , tempura(kondo , tonkatsu , udon , and pizza places(the pizza at partenope looks good, i tink uncle yabai mentioned this as well) ... is ur list all high end??? Tue Aug 18 12:29:03 -0700 2009 4955781 149699 Lucil 4 4956933 No, my list isn't all high end. I'm trying to mix it up. I'm eyeing Kimukatsu for their unique take on tonkatsu as well as well as some ramen and izakayas. Tue Aug 18 14:15:46 -0700 2009 4956553 234190 BaronDestructo 3 4961241 Hi BD: Just my thought after reading your selection: 1. Your dinner list is full of western restaurants with heavy Japanese influence. Do you have a particular bias for such food? I thought perhaps you can select some "pure" high end Japanese restaurants. Wonder why you left out Hirosaku...that is an excellent small restaurant operated by an elderly couple with the best soba I ever had. 2. You seem to focus just on "Michelin" type... Wed Aug 19 21:42:54 -0700 2009 4955781 130720 FourSeasons 4 4961298 I used the Michelin guide book as a base, then followed up with some food blogs and restaurant review sites. To be perfectly honest, what piques my interest more than anything is the description of a trademark dish like Muroi's wild mushroom set or Ginza La Tour's four hour slow-cooked foie gras with Sauterne. I'm going to Hirosaku for lunch. In know, I know, it sounds crazy, but this is an annual tradition and I want to make the most of my trip. I'm not as crazy as a friend who is a chef and, when visiting New York, booked three lunches and three dinners a day. Almost though. I'm thinking of a very early Tsukiji breakfast, an early 11:00 - 12:00ish lunch, a later casual lunch/snack (ie. ramen, tonkatsu) or trip to one of the city's spectacular pastry shops - followed my a later dinner. This way, I can sample both high end and more casual fare. After several more days of research, my list looks like this - Dinners: Monnalisa Marunouchi, Aroma Fresca, Aronia de Takazawa, Dazzle, Kadowai, Les Creations de Narisawa, Muroi, Reikasai, Ristorante Aso, Ryugin, Tapas Molecular, Yonemura, and Yamada Chikara. Two slots still open and I'm torn between Miravile and La Bombance. Any opinions? Lunch: Sushi Saito, Sawada, Quitessence, Ginza La Tour, Chez Matsuo, Dai San Harumi, Faro, Gordon Ramsay, Hirosaku, Kimukatsu, Kyubey, Piatto Suzuki. Two slots left to fill (3 if I shift Kimukatsu to a late casual lunch). My selections break down accordingly: 7 French, 4 sushi, 4 Italian, 3 fusion, 3 Japanese, 1 Chinese, 1 soba, 1 tonkatsu. What am I missing? Wed Aug 19 22:18:49 -0700 2009 4961241 234190 BaronDestructo 5 4961312 I think you miss the comfort food...seafood izakaya, shabu shabu, sukiyaki, yakiniku, yakitori, oden, unagi....BTW, how many nights are you going to be in Tokyo? Wed Aug 19 22:25:29 -0700 2009 4961298 130720 FourSeasons 6 4961330 15 nights, but the first one is a write-off. My flight gets in at 5:30 p.m. If it gets in on time, that's a 90 minute bus ride to the hotel. By the time I decompress, I'm eating dinner at 8:00ish. I'll probably hit the hotel restaurant or maybe take a stroll down to the tracks and have some yakitori. I was thinking of trying some of the more casual fare in the late afternoon (3:00ish and then I'd eat dinner at 7:30ish). Are there any restaurants in the aforementioned categories you'd recommend. I heard good things about Jap Cho Ok, Akachiritei (that serves a habanero chicken so hot you have to wear surgical gloves to eat it), Birdland, Gokyu, Hibiki, Matagi, and Saisei Sakaba. Yes? No's? Maybe's? Anyone know what Matagi's hours are? The only information I could find online was in Japanese. Wed Aug 19 22:45:50 -0700 2009 4961312 234190 BaronDestructo 7 4961421 I am a foodie but I don't think I can follow your schedule of heavy lunch, late afternoon casual and heavy dinner...just too much for me. Jap Cho Ok is a nice Korean restaurant; I actually tried non-BBQ stuffs there. For yakiniku where I focus on BBQ beef, I like Ayanokouji that is walking distance from Midtown. One place that I never miss whenever I travel to Tokyo is Nabura, a seafood izakaya. (I wrote a review about 1-2 years ago so just go to above search function if u want to read for more details) December is a good time for seafood. My only concern is there is no English menu there, not much English is spoken too so maybe intimidating for tourists. Thu Aug 20 00:47:23 -0700 2009 4961330 130720 FourSeasons 7 4971172 Matagi is supposedly open 6-11 PM, and I can see it being a late-night drop-by. It's a fun experience, what with the fire-pit ambience and all. I made the mistake of not ordering bear the first time I went, and the second time they didn't have it - should be in stock by the time of your trip. Basically you should get a plate of deer (shika) a plate of boar (inoshishi) and some shiitake, and you'll get the experience. http://iitokorone.blogspot.com/2008/10/matagi-nishi-azabu.html Sun Aug 23 18:51:06 -0700 2009 4961330 248799 jem589 5 4962124 Hi Baron, This looks like a great list! :) I'm drooling in anticipation of your report back after your trip. :) I can't wait to go back as well. Thu Aug 20 08:16:41 -0700 2009 4961298 113442 exilekiss 5 4962197 i would do quintessense for dinner... i suspect some of his seasonal specials are in dinner time... i wouldnt want to miss this restaurant the next time i go.. kyo-aji ( no english is spoken thou) http://r.tabelog.com/tokyo/A1301/A130103/13002887/ Thu Aug 20 08:36:21 -0700 2009 4961298 149699 Lucil 6 4962208 Hmmmm. Really? If I shift Quintessence to dinner, which of my dinner options would you move to a lunch? What fun! This is like doing one of those puzzles with the shifting pieces. Thu Aug 20 08:39:14 -0700 2009 4962197 234190 BaronDestructo 7 4962270 reikasai sounds like a good bet for lunch .. i dont know much abt kadowai.. nv heard of it before..and i would certainly drop muroi for kyo aji... Thu Aug 20 08:52:20 -0700 2009 4962208 149699 Lucil 8 4962649 Am unable to read the Kyo-aji write-up. What does it say? Thu Aug 20 10:28:07 -0700 2009 4962270 234190 BaronDestructo 9 4963271 since ur list includes muroi.. this is a kaiseki place... the ratings for kyo aji is definately higher.. this is the place that rejected 3 michelin stars.. and they speak absolutely no english... i tink this place requires a 3 months advance or 4 months booking... not too sure.. Thu Aug 20 13:15:04 -0700 2009 4962649 149699 Lucil 10 4963457 Okay. Will switch out Muroi for Kyo Aji. Is it open for lunch? Thu Aug 20 14:02:56 -0700 2009 4963271 234190 BaronDestructo 11 4965052 in the tabelog comments, seems like some ppl went there for lunch, but the operating hours stated by tabelog seems to be only 1730-2200.. i would tend to reserve top class restaurants for dinner .... Fri Aug 21 07:00:41 -0700 2009 4963457 149699 Lucil 3 4971160 Shocking, I forgot to self-promote! Lots of pictures in these two, and some hyperbole. http://iitokorone.blogspot.com/2009/04/yonemura-ginza.html http://iitokorone.blogspot.com/2009/01/quintessence-shiroganedai.html If you poke around the site you'll find more stuff, but I write about my daily lunches too so there are a lot of mediocre places. The map is the easiest way to find recommended places. Sun Aug 23 18:45:59 -0700 2009 4955781 248799 jem589 4 4971398 Ha! Thanks for the link. I've actually been using your site as a reference as I've put my list together. Sun Aug 23 20:11:43 -0700 2009 4971160 234190 BaronDestructo 1 4971769 Aronia de Takazawa is available for two, Oct 2. Be hurry! Mon Aug 24 02:12:34 -0700 2009 4950008 260284 CPMK 2 4972431 It's already on my list! Mon Aug 24 08:37:57 -0700 2009 4971769 234190 BaronDestructo 3 4987628 not sure if i'm too late with my post (relatively new to posting but have been an avid reader)....my last visit to Saito for lunch a couple of months back was underwhelming. i ordered the bigger/more expensive lunch set available and even though it was good, it wasn't exceptional and i was hungry again after 2 hrs! personally i will stick to dinners at such sushi places if i can get reservations. Fri Aug 28 20:26:18 -0700 2009 4972431 1104305 muttley 4 5007309 Thanks muttley. I'm more interested in the quality of the sushi over the quantity at lunch only because I've scheduled early lunches and late dinners so I can possibly squeeze in a late meal afternoon meal or dessert blow-out. When you say you were underwhelmed, were you referring to the quality as well? Sat Sep 05 09:42:58 -0700 2009 4987628 234190 BaronDestructo 1 5006108 Pierre Gagnaire á Tokyo unfortunately closed August 31st. Quintessence is likely an impossible reservation. Tateru Yoshino Shiba is in a terrible location, but is definitely worth going to. Note that he has opened another restaurant (http://tateruyoshinoshiodome.abemadi.com/en/y/Tokyo/46753/) in Tokyo, and you will want to make sure he will be at the location you choose. Aso a very solid choice. Hope that the trip is everything you hope for. Fri Sep 04 17:06:42 -0700 2009 4950008 1106969 monkuaruka 2 5006793 Tateru Yoshino has three branches in Tokyo: http://www.tateruyoshino.com/ Sat Sep 05 03:30:55 -0700 2009 5006108 12676 Robb S 2 5007314 "Quintessence is likely an impossible reservation." I leave it in the hands of Fate - and, of course, the concierge at The Peninsula who has received my restaurant list and is making the reservations on my behalf. Apparently, Quintessence isn't booking that far in advance yet. "Tateru Yoshino Shiba is in a terrible location, but is definitely worth going to." Thanks for the recommendation. One of my choices, Maison d'Umemoto Shanghai has also closed so I have another slot to fill. I don't mind terrible locations - so long as the cab driver knows how to find the place (which, going from past experience 50/50). Sat Sep 05 09:45:50 -0700 2009 5006108 234190 BaronDestructo 3 5015551 Hi Quality is not the issue but if you have the set course during lunch, it's pretty boring fare and i enjoy the omakase experience better over dinner. Wed Sep 09 02:38:29 -0700 2009 5007314 1104305 muttley