Caja China advice?
The Chowhound Team split this tangent was from its original location on the Los Angeles board. Please share your tips on using the Caja China pig roaster.
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That's exactly what we are doing for the first time. Any tips about the caja china?
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Im doing 2 pigs this weekend a 70 LB in Model #1 and a 100 LB 1 in model #2. Thise are both the max amounts listed for each model. The customer support at La Caja Chinna says to just follow the steps of cooking times along the side of the box. I've only cooked about a 50 LB pig in a La CaJa China model #1 twice before. I followed the cooking istructions along the side of the box and it turned out perfect. My question is how can a 70 LB pig take the same amount of time in the box. Wouldn't more weight mean more cooking time? Also I would like to get the pigs to room temp. Any idea how long that will take if it will be in a cooler with ice bags on top the night before.
Thanks for any help!›4 Replies-
re: rrleonard19
I brought 2 different pigs to room temp. The first time, I took the ice off around 9 or 10 AM and it was only around 65-70F outside where I had the pig and it never did get to 70 before I cooked it! The second time, I took the ice of at 6AM and it was about 85 by 11 and the pig was already at 70! So it depends, I guess, on various things. As far as cooking time, turkey is sort of the same way, if you believe what you read. 2.5 to 3 hours for an unstuffed bird regardless. I can't verify, but have read this- I think Sunset magazine did a study of this.
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re: rrleonard19
It really does cook that fast. A bigger pig takes a bit longer, but it's not a linear equation. I'm sure someone has/will do some scientific tests, but I believe there's some pressure-cooker effect going on inside the closed box which allows it to cook that quick. Best to stick a probe thermometer in the pig to monitor the internal temp w/o having to open the box.
As for bringing the pig to 70 degrees, that can be frustrating, especially if it's not that warm in the morning. If you have it in a bathtub, just turn on the warm water. If it's in a cooler, maybe you can do a similar thing by removing the ice, turning on a hose and letting it fill it with room temp water while allowing the water to drain out so there's a constant flow (convection).
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re: Lobstr
Thanks Lobstr and piggyjeanne. It seems like there is no exact way to perfect this with all of the other elements involved. We will have plenty of beer for everyone so that will help pass the extra time if needed. I'll let you know how it turns out. Starting at 4AM Saturday morning before the 11AM kickoff!
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re: rrleonard19
Hi it all depends on internal temp of pig before leaving out i have left pigs out overnight and they still didnt come up to temp before roasting. a litle tweak i have developed to speed up the process when the temp is not up to 70deg is to make a basic salt sugar brine and heat it up then inject the hot brine into the thick hams and shoulders. what i have found with whole animals is that the longer you keep it chilled is the longer it takes to thaw, i think it has something to do with how deep the chill is meaning it could be chilled but not ice cold down to the bones. try the brine in a pinch it has always worked for me. i used a full metal commercial marinade injector just in case you are wondering, i think lawrys salt company brands them. hope this helps
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Need some advice on pulled pork in Caja China...i'm planning on feeding about 50 people. I was thinking a 40 pound shoulder would do the trick. How long would i need to cook this beast til it hits 195? Would it be easier to use smaller shoulders, 8 to 10 pounders?
Any Advice would be awesome
-paul-›1 Reply-
re: klaceo
klaceo, you might find this helpful. the guy whose site it is has written two books on cooking with the caja.
http://burninlovebbq.wordpress.com/20...
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breaking out my caja china after a few pigless years. i have an amazing pig enroute--almond and acorn grazed, goats' milk finished duroc. (rubs hands together in delight!) because of the special pig, i am thinking of ditching the mojo, and either going without, or doctoring up a provencal, rosemary and thyme laced marinade to inject. anyone done something similar? suggestions, tips or trucs gladly accepted. it's been a while since i've done a whole pig.
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re: chez cherie
If you've got a pig that good to begin with (ooh sounds good), I wouldn't do too much to it. Good instincts to skip the mojo. You want to taste the real porcine deliciousness of that fine animal. I'd still inject it with a simple salt brine, though. At least in the leaner parts. Then maybe tuck some herbs into the internal cavity where they won't burn, mainly to perfume it. Sounds like you don't need much more than that except maybe a serving sauce/glaze on the side (a light apple or other fruit-based sauce, compote, or even salsa).
Where did you get the pig, Cherie? Sounds like awesomeness there.
Oh, If you need, I offer my taste-testing services free of charge.
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re: Lobstr
ordered it from a place i heard about right here on chowhound, of course!
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/852960
posted by harrynsuz on june 30, about 3/4 of the way down the thread. called and spoke to kent the butcher, and our short conversation convinced me that i needed to meet him in person. he sounds like a character AND the real deal. driving out to his place friday to pick up the pig for roasting saturday.
i like your fruit compote suggestion, and there are gorgeous stone fruits around still--might do some sort of plummy thing. thanks for that idea.-
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re: Lobstr
should be right around $300. totally fresh--i think he is slaughtering today.
will keep you informed--i'm so looking forward to this! been too long since we've done it, and before we got the pigs from restaurant depot. really hoping this is an extra-delicious pig, since rd is close and (comparably) cheap---we will be driving about an hour to pick it up. i had a dream last night that it was alive, in my driveway, and i was feeding it saffron!
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re: chez cherie
whooo doggies, that was "some pig!" i absolutely loved the experience of driving up the country roads to santa paula, and meeting kent short (old fashion country butcher)--what a real deal guy he is! he told me about our pig--runt of the litter (about 70ish lb), raised near lake piru, nut-grazed and goat milk finished. we discussed the mojo issue, and he told me his grandpa used to say "if the meat needs more than salt and pepper, ya might as well feed it to the dog!" he also told me that a friend of his who has done a number of pigs in the caja recommends injecting any flavorings AFTER the pig has cooked--when you flip, rather than when the pig is raw.
we decided to go with a little injection---white wine reduction, steeped with garlic, shallot, bay, rosemary and thyme (and salt). injected about 1 cup into shoulders and hams when we flipped it. this was an incredible feast--by far the most delicious and meaty pig we've ever done in the box. we reduced the juices from the box, sweetened it up with a little maple syrup, and drizzled a little over the meat. just terrific!
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re: Lobstr
no question--i'll go with kent in a heartbeat. the guy is the real deal--a pleasure to meet and talk to, as he knows so much. i think he said he's a third generation butcher--not many of those around anymore. he knows the guy who raised this pig--what it ate, where it lived its happy life...he talked about the breed and why he likes it, stuff his grandaddy said...i just loved the whole thing he's got going there.
besides being able to have that experience, the pig was just delicious. we've gotten pigs from restaurant depot, and they were good. but this pig was terrific. at under $4 a pound, i'd say it's a great bargain!
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dave_c
Aug 7, 2012 09:21 AM
Will leaving the head on cause any problems?
I can get my hands on a Caja China and was thinking of doing a pig roast where I would leave the head on for the full effect.›2 Replies-
re: dave_c
roasting with head on is fine. some people wrap the ears so they dont turn to charcoal but it part of the process. the most important advice is make sure your pig is 70 degrees internal temp on the thickest part of the leg before you start cooking. depending on size of pig an internal temp of 60 degrees can add up to 3 hours cooking time. have fun
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re: dave_c
Leave the head on! A whole pig roast won't be the same if you have a headless pig. No personality. Might as well just get some pork shoulders at that point. Also, the cheek meat is arguably the tastiest part.
As for info and a good method for making sure the pig comes up to temperature before roasting (70 degrees), see my previous post: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/7005...
It definitely makes a difference if you've planned ahead for that. On the day, however, if your pig is still only at 60 degrees and it's game time, just start roasting. Yes, it'll take longer, but it'll take a WHOLE lot longer if you keep waiting for it to come to room temp before putting it in.
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My recommendation is to use injected marinades if you use marinades at all.
Some famous chef posted a video with his instructions to marinade in liquid. That causes the skin to be overhydrated and rubbery when cooked.
What's worse is the marinade he used contained sugar which caused the skin to burn. In his video he abrubtly ends it after the scene where the pig is flipped. You never see the pig taken out or eaten - probably because it was a rubbery burned up mess!!
I've used a steak cubing device to prick the skin all over and rubbed with a little baking soda to help break down the skin and cause nice crisp bubbles. I might try some lye water in a few weeks on my 4th pig.
In the last 30 minutes when you are crisping the skin, don't put the coals back on the cooker straight. Sort of turn it a few degrees left or right and leave a crack open in the cooker to allow steam to escape, otherwise the skin becomes steamed and rubbery.
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re: BillHoo
Ok all, I have cooked 2 whole pigs in my Caja China. The first was perfect, with nice crispy skin. We injected it with Mojo, but I don't recal rubbing the skin with anything. The second pig, the skin was rubbed with salt the night before. The skin was leathery and we blamed the salt, as it does draw out moisture. Now I am thinking we didn't put enough coals on after flipping, to raise the temp, and maybe we should have it slightly open to decrease moisture?? Thoughts?
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re: piggyjeanne
the skin becomes leathery for several reasons: 1. the pig was flipped too early and the skin didnt get to gel stage 2. fire not hot enough or pan has too much ash under the coals (which lowers the box temp significantly) 3. remember if the skin gels properly and you flip for crackling it has to dry out ,which is why you slit the skin it is to allow the excess moisture to get out from under the fat/skin layer after that it will get to a dry leather like stage right before it starts to crackle. leaving the top open will make it crisp a little better but your loin sections will get super dry as they tend to be the driest parts when to pig is done cooking. i would leave on the lid and just allow time to get it crisp ,the steam in the box wont affect it that much if the coals are screaming hot on top. my recommendation is to get a good thermometer setup and that will help you alot. i flip my pigs at 185 degrees inner leg temp at the deepest part and we get great crackling and really moist pig. i am not sure if we can suggest brands on here but i use thermoworks dual temp thermometer. i hope i am not to jumbled with my advice. regards
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re: piggyjeanne
Garistone is right. After the flip, you most likely didn't have enough heat from the pan and/or didn't roast long enough. Leathery skin is just a stage before getting to crispy crackle-iciousness. The last addition of coals after the flip is specifically for crisping up the skin, so make sure to scoop out excess ash (which insulates) and add enough coals. And like Garistone said, don't worry about leaving the lid ajar. There's moisture in the box, but the skin is so close to the heat source, it'll still crisp. If you check and the skin is still leathery, just put the lid back on and go longer. And finally, don't blame the salt rub -- it would only have helped, not hurt.
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Does anyone know what temperature the inside of the caja china should be when cooking a whole pig? I'm building my own version, and I'll have two thermometers (one for the pig and and one for the oven). Also, any thoughts on what I could use as a rack? I thought about using rebar mesh, but that stuff is all galvanized steel.
›1 Reply-
re: Lobstr
JuniorBalloon
Jul 26, 2010 08:32 PM
Just this last weekend I built a homemade china box. We cooked two chickens last night to test and it worked great. Temps went as high as 390. I have read elsewhere that between 250 and 350 is pretty good. For a grate I found a 4x8 fence panel that was pretty heavy duty. Ended up cutting it in half and folding each half over double. We shall see if it's strong enough on Aug 14th. :)
jb
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Professor Salt
Aug 17, 2009 01:14 PM
One thing the Caja doesn't do is add any smoke flavor to whatever's cooked inside. I just saw this cold smoke generator on one of my BBQ forums, and thought that it could be jerry rigged inside the Caja, if one wanted smoke flavor.
http://www.macsbbq.co.uk/CSG.html
One would have to be handy with tools and create a removable shelf to place this device inside the Caja. It would have to be taken out temporarily while the pig is being handled. It ain't perfect, but I'm just sayin - for those who want a roasted pig with perfectly crisp skin and smoky meat, this might be just the thing.
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re: mendogurl
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re: mendogurl
David Kahn
Aug 20, 2009 04:52 PM
In our case, our pig was about 100 lbs, and I don't think it would have fit in the caja china with the head still on.
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re: mendogurl
David Kahn
Aug 21, 2009 03:26 PM
On cooking chickens and pig at the same time, almost certainly not a good idea. They will be done at different times, and you don't want to be opening the caja china any more than you have to.
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re: mendogurl
David Kahn
Aug 22, 2009 12:33 PM
That sounds about right. Since you're using a hypodermic rather than waiting for the marinade to soak through the meat, I think you don't need as much time. I think we injected ours about 15 hours or so prior to roasting. One last thing, I'm not sure if anyone mentioned, but you need to have the caja china on a reasonably level surface for the roasting, or you'll have lots of problems.
Good luck btw; hope it comes out great!
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re: Professor Salt
There are several methods for smoking in La Caja China. I use the smoke pistol (available from La Caja China or on Amazon), there's a new product called a "Smoke Daddy" that I intend to try out soon, and then there's the redneck (my fallback) method of simply placing a small pan of chip or pellets in top of the upper rack (above the pig). The heat from the coal tray creates a nice, long smolder. I've done this a half-dozen times with whole pigs and briskets, and it works great!
-Perry
Perry P. Perkins
Author
“La Caja China Cooking”
"La Caja China World"-
re: pperkins
OK, an update. Bought a 50 pound pig from Golden Gate Meat Company, SF, CA. Injected it with Mojo purchased in MIami, that i added some salt to, to create more of a brine, the night before and salted the skin. Brought it to 70 the next day. Put it in the box per instructions and inserted the digital probe. Added charcoal per instructions. At 3 hours, not done, at 4 hours not done and got very nervous as 40 people are WAITING. at around 4.5 hours, we were at 185. Flipped the pig, shook out the ash and crisped the skin perfectly in about .5 hours or a little more (got fuzzy here as shots of tequila were starting to get involved). The pig was perfect in every way, very moist and not too salty, just delicious! My husband thinks that if we shook the ash out each time we added coals, it might have made it go quicker, but I liked it just the way it was. FYI had lots of leftovers, maybe 5-7 pounds. I think I might do a 40 pounder next time.
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Professor Salt
Aug 12, 2009 09:23 PM
One last tip for food safety during prep. Keep the pig properly chilled by laying it on top of 20 lb bags of ice, then lay more bags of ice on top of the pig until you're ready to cook it. This is how BBQ competition cooks do their thing at contests.
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David Kahn
Aug 12, 2009 10:29 AM
Yes.
When you get your pig, you will need to remove the hoofs and the head. A reciprocating saw (sawzall), obviously with a clean/new blade, works great for this purpose. (Of course, your butcher may be willing to do this for you.)
In addition, in order to get the pig to fit within the grates in the caja china, you'll need to split the spine. You do this by cutting through the spine length-wise (perpendicular to the ribs) with a cleaver or machete and a hammer. This enables you to spread the pig out flat for roasting.
As for marinade, you can get fresh Cuban bitter oranges at some of the local Cuban grocery stores (there's a place in the San Fernando Valley), but they don't have them year round. They also sell a bottled marinade that looks artificial and gross, but is probably delicious. You really need a big hypodermic needle to get the marinade into the meat, because it won't soak through the skin or the inside of the carcass very well.
The stainless steel pan that sits inside the caja China is too shallow and will very likely overflow. You might want to get some deeper aluminum foil roasting pans to put inside to catch drippings/juice. There will be a lot of roasting juice, and it's a shame to waste it.
Lastly, don't underestimate the time it takes to carve the roast pig. It took us around 45 minutes -- it's a lot of work. (Boy is it good.)
Hope this is of some help, and good luck!
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re: David Kahn
Professor Salt
Aug 12, 2009 12:40 PM
I would second David's recommendation to inject with marinade. I've had the chance to try several Caja roasted pigs, and injected meat tastes better.
Be careful about oversalting the skin, though. IMO, the crispy crunchy skin is the best part, and it'd be a shame to make it oversalty in an attempt to season the meat.
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re: David Kahn
I've done 4 pigs so far on mine. You're in for a treat. David is right in all respects except I've not had the pan overflow. I got a huge horse hypo from my vet for the marinade and it still took awhile to inject since there's only so much the surrounding tissue can absorb. Also, be nice to yourself and let it cool off for a half hour before you start carving. My only tip: don't tell your post-dinner worshipers that all you had to do was explicitly follow the directions printed right on the freaking side of it.
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re: Spot
David Kahn
Aug 12, 2009 03:07 PM
Agree on all counts, and Spot raises another good suggestion. A whole pig is heavy and awkward, even when cool, and when it's fresh out of the oven hot, it worse. You absolutely need at least two people for much of the preparation and cooking process. At times, three people would be even better. (And of course, it helps enormously if they are sober.)
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re: David Kahn
how long should it take to cook a 75 lb pig? it seems like some websites/posts suggests it should take 3-4hrs. i've done 70-100 lb pigs a couple times already and they seem to take closer to 8-9hrs. i've got model #2. it'll be 60-70 degrees out, and the pig will be on ice all night...any thoughts/insite would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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re: David Kahn
AS A SOUTHERN SOUTH FLORIDA COWBOY, I HAVE TO RELATED HOW WE COOK 25-30 100 LBS+ WHOLE PIGS IN THE CAJA CHINA. WE ALWAY COOOK THE ENTIRE PIG, HEAD,FEET, TAIL ETC. WE GO TO THE SLAUGHTER HOUSE AND PICK OUT THE LIVE PIG THAT WE WANT. WE PREFER SOWS FOR THE PURITY OF MEAT FLAVOR AND MUSCLE TONE. THE PIG IS THEN TAGGED, PAID FOR, AND TAKEN UP STAIRS FOR PREP. WE ALWAYS ASK FOR THE HEART AND LIVER TO BE IN A SEPERATE PLASTIC BAG. THESE ARE COOKED AS A SPECIALTY HERE IN LITTLE HAVANA. WHEN WE GOT HOME, WE SPLIT THE BACKBONE MORE TO SPREAD THE PIG EVENLY. WE THEN FILL THE CAVITY WITH 1-1/2 GALS OF REALLY GOOD MOJO. THERE IS A BRAND NEW CLEANED AND STERILIZED RUBBERMAID HORSE TROUGH WHICH WE LINE WITH CLOSED 10 LB BAGS OF ICE. THE PIG IS PLACED ON TOP. WE INJECT EVERY POSSIBLE PLACE WITH MORE MOJO FOLLOWED BY INSERTION OF FRESH GARLIC CLOVES. THE PIG IS THEN COVER WITH ADDITIONAL SEALED 10# BAGS OF ICE AND THEN WITH HEAVY BLACK PLASTIC OR TOWELS TO MAKE A REFRIGERATOR WHERE IT SITS FOR AT LEAST 12-24 HOURS. THE CAJA CHINAS ARE SET UP SIMPLY AS PER THE INSTRUCTION PRINTED ON THE SIDE OF THE BOX. THE PIG IS UNCOVER, RUBBED ALL OVER WITH FRESH MOJO AND WIRED INTO THE RACKS. A LARGE 100+ PIG REQUIRES A LITTLE MUNIPULATION BY CRACKING THE FEET SO THEY FIT. THE PIG IS PLACED IN THER BOX BELLY SIDE UP AND ONCE IN THE BOX, THE CAVITY IS FILLED AGAIN WITH ANOTHER GAL OF MOJO.
WHEN THE PIG IS READY TO BE TURNED OVER BY TWO (2) PEOPLE. THE WHITE, WHITE COLOR OF THE SKIN MAY SHOCK YOU, BUT JUST WAIT. JUST BEFORE CLOSING UP THE BOX TO CRISPIN UP THE SKIN, WET MOP THE SKIN WITH A VERY HEAVY SALT WATER MIX. CLOSE THE TOP WITH THE NEW COALS ON AT AN ANGLE TO LET OUT STEAM AND KEEP IN THE HEAT TO DO IT'S MAJIC. NEVER OPE THE BOX DURING THE FIRST 3 1/2-4 HOURS OF COOKING. WHEN CRIPING UP THE SKIN TO YOU LIKENESS YOU WILL NEED TO PARTIALLY OPEN THER TOP A LITTLE MORE TO TAP THE SKIN. BECAREFUL AS IT WILL BE REAL HOT. WHEN IT'S READY, THE WHITE SKIN WILL BECOME A RICH DAARK GOLDEN BROWN WITH A DISTINCTIVE THUMP. REMOVE THE PIG ONTO THE CARVING TRAY AND UNDO WIRES AND THE RACKS. YOU MUST LET THE PIG SIT UNCOVERED FOR 20-30 MINS. THE SKIN WILL STAY CRISPY AND THE MEAT WILL BE TENDER, MOIST AND SOOOOOOOOOOO DELICIOUS. IT WILL FALL OF THE BONES WITH A COUPLE OF STRONG LARGE FORKS INTO SHREADS. WATCH OUT FOR THE SKIN GRABBERS AS THEY DECEND FROM NOWHERE. THERE'S PLENTY FOR EVERONE. REMEBER IF YOU'RE GOING TO CUT OFF HEAD, FEET, ETC. YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST ROAST A HUNK OF FRESH PORK. WE MAY DO THINGS A LITTLE DIFFERENT HERE ON THE FARM, BUT THEN THIS IS THE AREA WHERE 1000'S OF WHOLE PIGS ARE ROASTED EVERY YEAR. YOU CAN GO INTO ANY SUPER MARKET SUCH AS PUBLIX, WALMART ETC AND GET WHOLE PIGS FROM BABY SUCKLINGS TO 125# OR MORE. GOOD GRILLING AND ENJOY-
re: southernpig
I have now done 3 pigs. For 40 people, a 50 pound pig was more than enough and it fits without having to cut anything off. I injected the pig the night before with bottled Mojo from Miami, to which I had added some salt, to create more of a brine. Extra brine was poured in the cavity. I put the pig in plastic in the Caja China with ice under and over the pig. In the am, I pulled out all the ice and let the pig come to 70F. We took the advice and put the digital thermometer in the thigh and flipped the pig when the temp was 185. This took about 5 hours. We salted the skin after flipping, with kosher salt. We did the slashes, and shook the coals to get the ashes out, as suggested, to increase the heat. It all worked perfectly. But getting my friends to wait 30 minutes before carving is just impossible! They are like vultures!! the pig was perfect and the only surprise was that it took longer to get to 185 than we thought it would.
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