642945 Fri Aug 07 22:09:33 -0700 2009 51 31 Home Cooking 0 4927869 We've used jarred marinara, made slow-cooked homemade sauces with canned tomatoes and tomato paste, and homemade fast-cooked sauces with fresh tomatoes...and my sauce never seems to stick to the noodles. I've tried to find the answer to this online, but the only responses say not to rinse the noodles, not to add oil to the water, and not to add too much oil to the sauce. We don't do ANY of those things, and still, I can never seem to get a spaghetti noodle with sauce clinging to it the way I have in restaurants. Any hints? Fri Aug 07 22:09:33 -0700 2009 19626 thursday 1 4927888 Definitely no oil in the pasta water. Try finishing the noodles in the sauce. I use a skillet on med-low heat, ladle some sauce into the pan and then throw in a serving or two of noodles that are just 1 or 2 minutes shy of al dente. Add a little pasta water (the starch thickens the sauce) and cook until the noodles are al dente. Fri Aug 07 22:22:59 -0700 2009 4927869 56183 soypower 2 4927899 Yes, finish in the pan. My sense is that adding some of the pasta water to the sauce means that the starch molecules in the pasta will "hold hands" and link up with the starch molecules in the sauce. Once linked, the two stick together. Fri Aug 07 22:36:23 -0700 2009 4927888 18222 maria lorraine 3 4927971 Hmm... I tried that this evening and wound up with a watery sauce...that wouldn't stick to my noodles. Is your sauce extremely thick before you add the water? Do you let the noodles cool a little or toss them in hot? I can't understand why I have such trouble with this. Sat Aug 08 00:16:41 -0700 2009 4927899 19626 thursday 4 4927980 2 servings sauce ladled from pot into small skillet. add al dente pasta and *small* amount of pasta water -- 2 T. about cook tlll sauce is again thick serve Sat Aug 08 00:37:59 -0700 2009 4927971 18222 maria lorraine 4 4929795 Why don't you reduce the liquid in the sauce until it's not watery? At some point it will have to start sticking. The problem is probably that there's too much water in whatever sauce you're cooking. It could be that you are using really bad pasta, but you should be able to solve your problem without investing in artisan-quality pasta. Sat Aug 08 20:46:45 -0700 2009 4927971 25617 cornflower55 5 4929921 I'm going to try this again, but I'm not sure I can have less water - I've reduced it down until it's almost a paste... I'm not sure why I'm having such difficulty with this. I've tried it with fancy pasta (though granted, I don't know the brand) and it still slips right off. Sat Aug 08 21:54:42 -0700 2009 4929795 19626 thursday 6 4930614 You're probably overcooking your pasta, then. Don't trust the time on the package take at least one minute off if your not cooking it further in the sauce and more if you are. I wonder if you might also be undersalting the water and if that might have an effect on your sauce stickiness. My last hypothesis would that you may have too high expectations regarding the behaviour of your sauce and pasta. The condiment isn't really supposed to stick to the noodle. The noodles should be coated in the sauce. You may also just be adding too much sauce. Sun Aug 09 09:43:36 -0700 2009 4929921 18488 SnackHappy 7 4945747 I second this, as well as using pasta that has been extruded through bronze dies for a rougher surface.(my hands-down favorite is Rustichella d'Abruzzo, which I bought for years at Zabar's until I found it cheaper at Whole Foods, followed by De Cecco, which is readily available, inexpensive, and REALLY good for the price). It finally occurred to me at some point that one of the reasons pasta should be cooked al dente is because the hot, firm (and well-drained) pasta is still cooking and thirsty when it meets the sauce. The more liquid element of the sauce is absorbed--making for perfect, not-too-chewy texture--and the richer solids meld with the cheese and cling to the rough pasta. Mop up what little's left with bread. BTW, I ususlly add a drop of oil to my cooking water and have never had a problem with the sauce not adhereing. The trick is probably to use just that--a drop. More than that is overkill anyway. You can also add your pasta to the sauce with a bit of the retained cooking water and cook it over medium heat for about a minute, or you might want to try Rustichella d'Abruzzo's suggestion--tossing the hot pasta with cheese prior to saucing it. Fri Aug 14 04:18:05 -0700 2009 4930614 51048 MacGuffin 1 4928031 The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in your sauce but in your pasta. Try buying pasta that has been extruded through bronze and see if things change. It will say this on the label. De Cecco is a good brand, but you can do better in specialty shops. Latini is great. Cavalieri too. And there are numerous other very good brands available. Certainly, you don't add oil to the water and don't rinse the pasta. Add as much oil to the sauce as you like. What you actually want is not for the sauce to stick to the pasta but for the pasta to absorb the sauce. Anything that gives the pasta a slick surface will prevent this from happening. Extrusion through bronze dies (as opposed to stainless steel or even Teflon) imparts a rough surface to the pasta that, among other things, makes the pasta absorbent. The trick of using pasta water to make your sauce creamy really only works right if your pasta was decent in the first place. Sat Aug 08 02:55:30 -0700 2009 4927869 83777 mbfant 2 4928659 Amen! I find bronze-die pasta that's advertised as such to be prohibitively expensive (as in, $6 or $7 per pound!!), but I've gotten comparable results from Whole Foods' brand organic pasta, which has a rougher surface even than their non-organic variety. For all I know, it IS bronze-die-extruded, but it doesn't say so on the package and the price is sure right -- less than $2 per pound where I live. Anyway, you're right, the key is to stay away from pasta that looks shiny or slick, and stick with pasta that looks both opaque and rough-textured. I would call it a velvet look, maybe? Sat Aug 08 10:34:52 -0700 2009 4928031 256229 LauraGrace 3 4928706 "I find bronze-die pasta that's advertised as such to be prohibitively expensive (as in, $6 or $7 per pound!!)[...]" De Cecco uses bronze drawing and only costs about $2 a pound. Sat Aug 08 10:57:24 -0700 2009 4928659 18488 SnackHappy 4 4933054 Barilla also makes excellent inexpensive pasta. The even make special ridged ("rigati") versions of some of their spaghetti and linguini for extra sauce-holding capability. Mon Aug 10 09:22:11 -0700 2009 4928706 14386 BobB 5 4933093 I second the Barilla brand. Also, as Silverhawk mentions below, different shapes hold the sauce better than others. Long thin pasta shapes simply do not hold sauce as do the shaped pastas. If you're making a tomato based sauce I would Not add water to the finished sauce. I might "rinse" out the can of tomatoes with a bit of wine or water at the start when I'm adding the tinned tomatoes to the pan, but never at the finish. Pasta water is only incorporated into "white" sauces...those not tomato based. Mon Aug 10 09:35:22 -0700 2009 4933054 75332 Gio 2 4930795 Bronze-die pasta adds a whole new level of pasta detail that I never knew before. How did you learn about this mbfant? So pasta cut this way is microscopically "nubbier" than pasta cut another way or extruded? And it's those nubs that "hook" the sauce? Wild. Could it also be the dough itself -- some doughs are more continuous and homogeneous in texture, others are less so, with "grainy" flour bits, etc. Then the "grainy" bits would be the source of the nubs that hook the sauce. Or perhaps it's a combo. Sun Aug 09 11:08:47 -0700 2009 4928031 18222 maria lorraine 3 4931084 Marcella Hazan's Essentials of Italian Cooking, p. 25 explains... Sun Aug 09 13:29:01 -0700 2009 4930795 204204 penthouse pup 3 4931199 I don't know how I first learned about it, but it's no secret. Try running one piece of Latini spaghetti between your fingers and then a piece of Barilla. The Latini will feel like sandpaper and the Barilla will be smooth. It makes a huge difference. The dough is industrially mixed, so it's all smooth. The texture comes from the material of the dies. Other variables are the quality of the flour and the temperature/time of drying. Slow drying at low temperature is best. Sun Aug 09 14:26:54 -0700 2009 4930795 83777 mbfant 4 4967884 As I recall, I started buying DeCecco years ago because I was trying to decide on a brand and reading the blurbs on the boxes so I could compare. DeCecco explained that their product was die-extruded and why that was desirable. Made sense to me! Incidentally, I'm a noodle devotée--spaghetti, fettucine, and such. My sauces never contain meat and they always stick. Sat Aug 22 07:51:18 -0700 2009 4931199 51048 MacGuffin 5 4969421 bronze-extruded. They are all die-extruded (except the shapes that are rolled and cut). The issue is the material of the die. Sun Aug 23 01:45:16 -0700 2009 4967884 83777 mbfant 1 4930040 As others have hinted at, the problem is not with your sauce. The problem is with your pasta. Sauce your pasta when it is still warm, and then add some more of the hot/warm pasta water and reduce accordingly. Always works. Sun Aug 09 00:38:16 -0700 2009 4927869 11583 ipsedixit 1 4931261 this isn't a very exotic notion, but you might prefer a different pasta shape, too. some shapes are pretty much designed to hold sauce--eg shells, radiatori, penne. Sun Aug 09 14:52:25 -0700 2009 4927869 270283 silverhawk 2 4947528 different shapes are designed for different *types* of sauce, i.e. a short stubby pasta like rigatoni is for a chunky meat sauce, so bits of meat will get "inside" the tubes, a flat thin noodle like linguine works with a simple olive and basil dressing and a fettucine gives surface area for a creamy sauce. don't use cheap or any american pasta get the water to a high boil don't overcook. stir a few times while it cooks so it doesn't stick don't add oil to the water -- it's absolutely pointless since oil and water do NOT mix use plenty of salt in the water. drain well by shaking it in the colander depending on the sauce, you may want to hold back a 1/4 cup of the cooking water add the sauce to the hot pot you used for the pasta, keeping the burner at low heat add the pasta back to the pot and mix very well let it sit a minute and turn off the heat. i usually cover it now and get be everything else plated check that the sauce is the consistency you like, if it needs it add some pasta water a bit at a time Fri Aug 14 16:35:25 -0700 2009 4931261 30273 hotoynoodle 1 4933124 And also make sure you are draining your pasta well. Leave it for a few moments in the colander to air dry and let some of the water evaporate. If your sauce is dry and the pasta wet, very shortly your sauce will be wet. Mon Aug 10 09:43:34 -0700 2009 4927869 117271 Stuffed Monkey 2 4946925 Use a salad spinner to get your pasta REALLY dry. Fri Aug 14 12:22:35 -0700 2009 4933124 159317 greygarious 1 4946265 It all begins with the quality of the pasta. The pasta in Italy is much different than the pasta most Americans are used to. The many shapes and sizes of pasta have caused it to become trivialized by most American cooks who often choose pasta on how it looks rather than how it pairs with a particular sauce. My friends from Perugia (Pinota and her son Luigi who has a doctorate in agronomy) gave me my best lesson yet on pasta - Not all pasta is created equal. A high quality pasta is a roughly textured pasta because the rougher the outside of the pasta the better the sauce will adhere giving a more uniform and consistently delicious flavor to each bite. Fri Aug 14 08:40:52 -0700 2009 4927869 242878 per me 1 4947184 Look for the word "rigate" on the label. Regular penne is smooth but penne rigate has ridges that the sauce can adhere to. I second the idea of finishing the almost done pasta in with the sauce and I only add pasta water if it needs thinning...which it usually doesn't. Fri Aug 14 14:10:39 -0700 2009 4927869 1099702 sparkareno 2 4947431 I don't find that cooking a minute with pasta water thins the sauce it all. You use just a little and it seems to make everything creamier and more cohesive. However, the presentation isn't as nice, so while I might do it just for myself, I wouldn't serve it to guests that way. Fri Aug 14 15:49:38 -0700 2009 4947184 51048 MacGuffin 1 4967575 I always rinse my noodles or they'll overcook (not good with my time lol), Alton Brown debunked that oil thing and oil also helps keeping the water from foaming too much. Are your pasta dry-ish? Not like being hard and brittle of course but like they are cooling off and they stick to each other? Cause that's the only way I can make the sauce stick. Also, it doesn't make the sauce too watery... Sat Aug 22 00:57:58 -0700 2009 4927869 212885 AngelSanctuary 2 4967975 1) Rinsing of noodles in Italian cooking is generally frowned upon. 2) I don't see how foaming water is a negative so no need to waste oil by adding it to the water. Sat Aug 22 08:42:52 -0700 2009 4967575 10195 KTinNYC 3 4968010 rinsing is counter-productive, not just frowned upon. with quality pasta, rinsing washes the starch down the drain and the sauce doesn't cling as well. honestly, it's not rocket science. spend the few extra cents on a good box, boil it in salty water and don't overcook it. the end. Sat Aug 22 09:02:01 -0700 2009 4967975 30273 hotoynoodle 3 4969285 foaming water is not so fun when it spills over your pot and onto your stove...and it's like a few drops I think I can spare a few drops of oil and shhhhhh if no one tells them, they won't know ;) Sat Aug 22 22:05:48 -0700 2009 4967975 212885 AngelSanctuary 4 4969425 You need a bigger pot. Sun Aug 23 01:55:58 -0700 2009 4969285 10195 KTinNYC 5 4969522 or slightly lower heat. Sun Aug 23 05:42:13 -0700 2009 4969425 30273 hotoynoodle 5 4971649 Any bigger, it'll hit the ceiling of my exhaust fan =.=. Sun Aug 23 22:48:59 -0700 2009 4969425 212885 AngelSanctuary 4 5025540 I stir the water right before adding the pasta--that seems to counteract the foaming. Sat Sep 12 19:20:00 -0700 2009 4969285 1101973 szeglin 2 4968015 set a timer? if you didn't rinse your pasta the sauce would stick, no problem. further, it shouldn't be sitting around, cooling off. drain it well in a colander and sauce it right away, while it's still hot. Sat Aug 22 09:03:38 -0700 2009 4967575 30273 hotoynoodle 3 4969295 yea but cooling them in cold water when they're already at the doneness I want is a lot more reliable than anticipating how much they will continue to cook while they're hot. and my pasta still sticks to the sauce so meh~ And by the time you drain all excess water and then sauce it, it's not really "right away" Sat Aug 22 22:10:01 -0700 2009 4968015 212885 AngelSanctuary 4 4969524 pot to colander, good couple of shakes to drain, back to pot... 30 seconds? Sun Aug 23 05:43:39 -0700 2009 4969295 30273 hotoynoodle 5 4970023 ...if that. It hasn't been my experience that pasta that's been boiling for 10 minutes or so cools off all that quickly when it's drained, and a few tosses/shakes dry it off just fine. As to anticipating how much pasta continues to cook when added to hot sauce, it's not rocket science. It hits the sauce a little firmer than one would like, it sucks up some sauce, and voila!--it's perfect. It's pasta with sauce--very elemental food that should be easy. Sun Aug 23 10:19:39 -0700 2009 4969524 51048 MacGuffin 5 4971654 30 seconds? how much pasta do you cook at a time?! and my sauce usually finish later so it doesn't matter anyways... Sun Aug 23 22:56:30 -0700 2009 4969524 212885 AngelSanctuary 6 5026083 generally i cook a pound, sometimes only half. why is your sauce finished so late? maybe it's your meal prep timing and not your pasta cooking that's the issue, lol! ;) Sun Sep 13 07:20:26 -0700 2009 4971654 30273 hotoynoodle 1 4967896 The other points about die-extruded pasta and finishing the dish in a frying pan are all good ones, but can I add that if you serve the pasta into a hot dish or plate, it might solve your problem? PAsta comes out of the pot, steaming hot, sauce clinging seductively, and when it hits a cold plate, the steam condenses and then you get that watery, bland juice on the plate, no matter how thick your sauce was to start with. A hot plate or bowl keeps everything hot and certainly solved the watery problem for me re: spag. bolognese. HTH. Sat Aug 22 08:00:42 -0700 2009 4927869 1092584 kookiegoddess 2 4968610 I question that one - I don't heat plates at home and never have watery soup under the sauced pasta. On the other hand, restaurant pasta usually comes on a hot plate but unless I specifically request that the pasta be well-drained, it will almost always be sloshing around in a puddle. If it's my first time at an Italian restaurant I sometimes omit the request, because it helps me judge their commitment to their food. If they can't be bothered to spend the extra minute to drain the pasta, I am unlikely to return if I have any input into the choice of restaurant. Sat Aug 22 15:17:59 -0700 2009 4967896 159317 greygarious 1 4968081 I use "cheap" pasta and still have no issues with this. You don't *have to* buy pasta that's extruded through bronze to get your sauce to stick. I buy Luigi Vitelli brand pasta, Trader Joe's pasta, and Barilla. I don't usually pay more than $1/pound, many times I stock up when the Luigi Vitelli is on sale for $.79. You do need to finish your pasta in the sauce. Your pasta should be **just barely** al dente before you put it in the sauce. I give it a good 5+ minutes in the sauce at a low simmer and then turn the heat off and let it rest just a bit. I also incorporate the sauce thoroughly. Don't just set the pasta in the sauce. "Mix it up" so the sauce coats the pasta. I don't add pasta water unless my sauce is already very thick, but I do use a pasta "spoon" to scoop the noodles straight from the pot into the sauce (I suppose this adds pasta water in the process) rather than draining them first. My sauce always clings with this method. Sat Aug 22 09:40:28 -0700 2009 4927869 173425 Jen76 1 4968279 My initial hunch before reading the other comments was that you are overcooking your pasta. The pasta should be removed from cooking water (and take a mug of the pasta water out beforehand to reserve if you are dumping the pot into a colander) at the point when there is a bit of a white core remaining in the center of it when you bit it. Don't dry it too thoroughly, but do finish it briefly (don't overcook, again) in the sauce, so that the pasta will draw in the sauce as it completes cooking. If the pasta soaks up too much sauce in finishing, you can add some of the pasta cooking water bit by bit to make it smile, as it were. Sat Aug 22 11:48:22 -0700 2009 4927869 13819 Karl S 2 4968594 Excellent. Sat Aug 22 15:06:50 -0700 2009 4968279 18222 maria lorraine 2 5025595 Good assessment and great advice, Karl. And I love that last line... "to make it smile." It made me smile. :) Sat Sep 12 19:53:12 -0700 2009 4968279 255446 Gigi007 1 4968499 Two things: (1) Don't overcome the pasta. You have to experiment by taking small amounts of the pasta out of the water and eating it. When it seems a little harder than you'd like, drain the pasta; (2) return the drained pasta to the (now relatively dry) pan and cook it over low heat, moving the pasta gently with tongs. Very soon there will be no water left in the pan and the pasta will take on a tacky feeling. If you mix that pasta into the sauce, trust me, the sauce will stick! (I also use this pasta for removing the lint from suits--okay, just kidding about that last part, but it becomes really sticky.) Sat Aug 22 14:09:04 -0700 2009 4927869 22427 gfr1111 2 4968598 Also very good instructions. Like the part about "no water left in the pan and the pasta will take on a tacky feeling." That's exactly it. That "overcome" part is good, too, whether you meant the pasta was overcome with water, overcooked or overwhelmed. Sat Aug 22 15:10:19 -0700 2009 4968499 18222 maria lorraine 2 5025600 Great advice, gfr1111. I 've seen Lidia Bastianich handle pasta with tongs and mix the sauce together with the pasta in some of her shows, so you're right up there with the pros! Bravo. Sat Sep 12 19:56:23 -0700 2009 4968499 255446 Gigi007 1 5025245 I've always found that this makes the sauce stick better to the pasta: I cook my pasta in plenty of water with a teaspoon or so of salt. Don't neglect the salt! When the pasta is cooked to your liking, drain it well in a colander and tip it back into the still-warm cooking pot. Toss it with a tablespoon or two of butter (depending on your quantity of pasta.) Then put on some of the sauce. Allow it to sit for a minute or so in the pot to soak up the sauce. Keep adding the sauce a bit at a time until you have reached the saturation you desire without overloading the pasta. Unless your sauce is particularly thin, this should help a lot. Sat Sep 12 16:00:51 -0700 2009 4927869 240495 Lindsay D47 1 5027002 This problem of your sauce has come to mind now everytime I make pasta. I don't have that problem you describe, so I'm trying to see what if there's anything I'm doing that's different. I use many different brands of pasta. DeCecco, Barilla, Trader Joe's etc. that are more pricey, but for angel hair and thin spaghetti, whatever is on sale. Regardless, my sauce is absorbed. I use a lot of salt, handful in the water as it boils. I quit using oil years ago, just because I didn't see a need. the other thing is that learning when to pull the pasta is crucial to making a good pasta dish. It should taste like its not done yet. It can go from that bite to mush so fast. All the pastas are different so you need to keep practicing with different pasta shapes. I never go by what the box says. When it's perfect to my tooth, then I drain the pasta well. Let it sit about 5 mins, I'll moveit around or pull it up with tongs so it doesn't stick. Then I'll usually put the pasta in a lower large saute like pan, and toss with sauce. I reserve sauce for the table, I sometimes add a little pasta water to the sauce, but be careful, not too much. I always cook my pasta al dente, and by the time it hits the table its always perfect. Personally I think you're having trouble with timing the al dente pasta. It will continue to cook after you remove it and put it in the sauce. Also try making your own pasta for a real treat, the pasta really absorbs the sauce wonderfully. The pasta is like silk! I hope this helps, I know how frustrating this can be, perhaps you've figured it out by now! Sun Sep 13 16:09:01 -0700 2009 4927869 50431 chef chicklet