Kentucky Fried Chicken's 11 Herbs and Spices Reverse Engineered

[scrumptiouschef]

Ron Douglas shares the ingredients for his version of KFC's 11 herbs and spices recipe
— 1 teaspoon ground oregano
— 1 teaspoon chili powder
— 1 teaspoon ground sage
— 1 teaspoon dried basil
— 1 teaspoon dried marjoram
— 1 teaspoon pepper
— 2 teaspoons salt
— 2 tablespoons paprika
— 1 teaspoon onion salt
— 1 teaspoon garlic powder
— 2 tablespoons Accent

[khagzan]

OK, it might have been said already, but I'll just add this:

* This seasoning is applied DIRECTLY on the chicken, which has been soaked in buttermilk for (some long amount of time), and the chicken is then dredged in flour. Reason: spices like paprika, chili powder, and all the dried herbs, will burn instantly if they hit 325 degree shortening. The flour coating protects the spice mixture from blackening.
* People complaining about the "Accent", a.k.a. MSG, are clearly unaware of how much MSG theyprobably consume on a daily basis. That's just as bad as the argument "there is plenty of salt naturally in what we eat already". If you cook foods from scratch, that is not true; obviously there is no salt in a piece of asparagus or raw chicken. It is when you are lazy and eat out of boxes and bags, that you are subjected to insane amounts of processing chemicals, like MSG and salt. There is no need to eat processed foods.

[Fibber McGee]

There is no need to get on a soapbox, either.

[teegee1]

How is it that in TV and print ads, the bucket is always full to the top, but when you buy a bucket at the store it's only 1/2 to 3/4 full even though it has the same number of pieces? SIZE. Unless the TV bucket has crumpled newspaper beneath the chicken, the actual pieces you buy are much, much smaller than those in the ads. Or are the TV buckets smaller for that 'full' illusion?

Also, even though 11 herbs and spices are promoted, obviously they are used in a lot less quantity than years ago. the only thing I taste is salt, pepper and grease. the chicken used to be 'finger lickin good'. It left a slight sticky sweetness on your fingers that you licked off. Just grease now.

[ricepad]

Just like the disclaimer says on boxes of crackers and cereals: "Some settling of contents may have occured..." Your bucket is full - the chicken has just compacted!

[teegee1]

Correct, but usually the contents have settled during shipment, but not from the fryer to the counter. Bottom line...though the number of the pieces are constant, the pieces are just much, much smaller than they used to be.

[teegee1]

I just found the direct knock-off recipe I created several years ago that EXACTLY duplicates today's KFC.

KFC Recipe

I've tried this recipe many, many times, and can swear that the chicken tastes just like it came from my local KFC.

15 assorted pieces of chicken (the smaller the better)
2 cups flour
6 tbl salt
6 tbl salt (needed some more)
6 tbl salt (not quite there yet)
2 tbl salt (that's about right)
1/2 pinch black pepper (don't overpower the salt)
11 Herbs/ Spices (Na, too expensive. Add more salt instead))
1 Large bucket of cooking grease

Warsh (like that?) the chicken in water, not milk or egg as it might add too much flavor and detract from the delicate flavor of the salt. Mix the salt, salt, salt, salt, pepper, and more salt into the flour. Mix gently so as not to bruise the salt. Remember, the salt must be protected at any cost. Evenly coat the chicken in the flour mix. If there are any spots that are left bare, keep the salt shaker at arms reach. Carefully place the coated chicken pieces into the grease. Let the chicken rest for 5 minutes, and then turn on the deepfryer. The deepfryer will reach the correct temperature in about 30-40 minutes. This waiting time allows the chicken to absorb the grease and thus become sooo juicy. Cook until golden brown. Remove and set on rack to drain (not too long as you don't want to lose all that goodness).

Crumple 8-10 sheets of newspaper and jam them into a facsimile of the KFC takeout bucket. Place the chicken into the bucket. There, now the chicken pieces reach the top lip of the bucket, just like in the KFC ads. Wow, the bucket is so full that you can barely put the lid on.

Eat with gusto. Just make sure you have plenty of serviettes and liquid refreshments handy as this chicken is just bursting with juice and flavor.

[alkapal]

thank you for you informative and lengthy post.

[ricepad]

Surely you didn't take my comment seriously...? If so, do you take issue with photos of Big Macs...or any other foods depicted in print or TV ads?

[teegee1]

Completely understand. With many advertised products it's an art to 'properly' depict them for maximum viewer impact. Though the photo can't be embellished, I think photographers often take it to the edge of credibility. Still, the full KFC bucket really pisses me off. Maybe I should complain to Advertising Standards Canadian since it violates the below article of the Canadian Code of Advertising Standards, ie Illustration, representation.

1. Accuracy and Clarity

(a) Advertisements must not contain inaccurate, deceptive or otherwise misleading claims, statements,illustrations or representations, either direct or implied, with regard to any identified or identifiable product(s) or service(s).

[porker]

Kinda like the Whammy Burger in Falling Down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeGk1b...

[teegee1]

If consumers were more demanding that their purchases look like the advertised product, and returned them if not, then the food establishments would be swamped with returns. Something would have to give.

[porker]

mrs porker tries her hand at fried chicken every once in a while. i told her about sonofagun's post and she sat upright, suddenly interested.
i think shes going to give it a try, but instead of the h2o/nacl/acetic acid brine, we're going the louisianna hot sauce in a plastic bag route.

[mamachef]

Not having tried a single one of these different spice/herb blends, I can't comment on them specifically. What I can tell you is that 2 c. ap flour mixed with one packet Lipton's tomato soup and one packet zesty Italian dressing tastes amazingly like original recipe fried chicken, at least as far as I can tell.

[Matahari22]

Well this has inspired me to try a few of these blends for my fried chicken. My father only made his fried chicken one way and it's so engrained in me that his way is what fried chicken should taste like. His was heavy on the poultry seasoning.

It's been interesting to try new seasoning for fried chicken.

[Will Owen]

Okay, all of this is intensely interesting, and Yes I'm taking notes. Now, what I *really* want to know is: does anyone have a recipe for the long-departed Hot'n'Spicy Extra Crispy? I was totally addicted to that, even after only one KFC outlet in Nashville still carried it (probably because maybe 90% of their clientele was black, and hot chicken of any kind is a Black Nashville tradition), and when it fell off the menu me and the Colonel pretty much fell out. Now that I can get away with frying chicken only maybe once a year (dietary concerns) I'd love to make the best of it …

[alkapal]

hey will, try making small batches with different hot kfc secret herb & spice blends. i googled a couple -- but actually these two links look the same. (i also wonder if the kfc hot wings taste like what you're looking for).

http://recipelist.blogspot.com/2007/09/kfc-hot-and-spicy-chicken.html
http://kfcsecretrecipes.blogspot.com/...

[buttertart]

This whole thread makes me smile because all I can think about is my sister-in-law's mother who was bound and determined to crack this one - in 1968. Came awfully close, too.

[Sonofagun]

The REAL Colonel Sanders Original Recipe.

Ron's attempt is great fried chicken, but nowhere close to the real thing.

Original Recipe Fried Chicken:

All measurements in teaspoons unless otherwise noted.

1 black pepper
1 white pepper
1/2 sage
3/8 ginger
1/4 coriander seed
1/4 summer savory
1/4 nutmeg
1/8 bay leaf
1/8 cayenne pepper
1/8 green cardamom
1/8 cloves

1 two to three pound frier chicken cut into pieces.

To 1 cup of cake flour, add 2 tsp salt, 1 tsp msg. Mix spice blend into flour and allow to absorb a minimum of 1 day.

Dip chicken pieces in 3/4 cup milk mixed with 1 egg. Roll and press into flour 7 times and tap 7 times to remove excess. Allow to set for 15 minutes.

Heat oil in pressure cooker to 375F. Gently drop in chicken pieces and cap lid. When steam escapes from regulator, turn temperature down to 250F and cook for 8 minutes.

Remove from oil and set on rack in 170 degree oven for 15 minutes to allow excess oil to drain.

Merry Christmas everyone!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above recipe is as close to Colonel Sanders' final blend as you can make. Although he purportedly finalized the 11 in the 40's, it wasn't until the early 50's that he added Monosodium Glutamate and decided to stop here. Salt and MSG were additives to the flour, and not counted as part of the original 11.

His original blend was first altered as early as 1964, when he sold Kentucky Fried Chicken to John Y. Brown. Extra Crispy was a deep fried product, not created by, nor sanctioned by the Colonel. It did not contain the original 11, and is most likely what was tested by William Poundstone.

By cooking the above recipe in your home kitchens, you will finally remember (or taste for the first time!) what Colonel Sanders intended his chicken to taste like.

[Fibber McGee]

Cool. You don't possiblly have that fabled gravy recipe of his, do you?

[Sonofagun]

2 Tbs. fried chicken 'drippings' (the strained out, fallen off bits of coating after frying)
2 Tbs. seasoned flour (same flour used in the coating)
2 cups skim milk (or 1 cup whole milk, 1 cup water)
1 pinch of nutmeg
1 pat of butter (or 1 Tbs of oil from the cooking)

Melt butter in pan over medium heat. Combine drippings (cracklings), seasoned flour and make a roux. Keep whisking until the color turns chocolate brown. All the flour must cook to avoid the raw flour taste.

Gradually add the milk while constantly whisking. Keep stirring until the gravy thickens. The gravy will be thin at first, then all of a sudden it will thicken. Do not let it get too thick. It should be slightly lumpy and still run off a spoon.

Requires a little practice to get it perfect, but is very easy to achieve. Colonel Sanders wanted the gravy to be so good, that people would throw the chicken away! He also claimed that KFC had turned his original gravy into wallpaper paste.

Serve with chicken, mashed potatoes and biscuits.

Enjoy!

[BananaBirkLarsen]

My very first job was working at a KFC in British Columbia in the late 90's. My supervisor made the gravy by mixing a spice packet with some used fryer grease. I'm not at all sure that this method was sanctioned by the Colonel, however, or even by KFC in general. She also referred to the poutine (which shows up on most Canadian KFC menus) as "poon-tain." I was always a little bit horrified (and a little bit delighted) when she did this in front of customers.

[Karl S]

What's the measure of the 11 - teaspoons? You omitted it....

[Sonofagun]

Sorry, it is in teaspoons. I must have forgot to include that when I edited the post.

[jumpingmonk]

One problem with that assumption, Poundstone made it clear he was testing the orginal. I suppose though that whoever gave him the sample may have gotten the batters mixed up.

[Sonofagun]

You're right, jumpingmonk. That is merely an assumption on my part. I have often pondered the Poundstone findings. Anyone who works at KFC then and now would easily be able to show you the spice bag containing way more than 4 ingredients.

Furthermore, the spice mix and salt both come from separate bags and are combined with the flour at the restaurant.

I have always suspected human error or more likely FOWL play. ;-)

[jumpingmonk]

Kinda makes you wonder if the Oysters Rockefeller recipe (from the second book) is really spot on. As a botanist by profession I can however, confirm that the thing about the pink peppercorns is.

[Sonofagun]

Any chance you could post that recipe for Oysters Rockefeller? I would love to try it.

[jumpingmonk]

Regrettably my main computer is in the shop for repairs and the one I'm writing on is too old to work with my scanner (and the recipie is way too long to compy out manually) When my "real" computer gets back from the shop I'll se what I can do, if you can't wait, maybe your local library has a copy of "Bigger Secrets" (i.t. out of print so you can't just go to a bookstore and get a copy) It's the first section in there.

[alkapal]

or order the book for virtually nothing... http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Searc...

[jumpingmonk]

Well yes there is alway's that option. I was just trying to come up with quicker ones. then again the rest of the books pretty intersting so that may be the best one.

[alkapal]

i realized your option was quicker. btw, i've found the booksellers are pretty quick with those used books.

i found this interesting about the oyster recipe: http://itotd.com/articles/456/oysters...
"""What various researchers have been able to piece together from a variety of sources is that there are probably 18 ingredients in [Antoine's] Oysters Rockefeller, among which are watercress, scallions, parsley, fennel, garlic, butter, and bread crumbs. It also likely contains Pernod or Herbsaint, brands of pastis that substitute for the absinthe that was almost certainly used in 1899. I have yet to see any research, though, as to why the spinach-based recipes with only 10 ingredients taste better. —Joe Kissell"""

[Bobfrmia]

I don't have a pressure cooker. I'm sure that's a very important part of this.
Just wondering, how do you think it would turn out just deep fried? Or would it be better to try Pan Fried. Or would I just be wasting time? I love good fried chicken, but have never attempted my own.

[Karl S]

The character of KFC and the fried chicken from supermarkets that is like it comes from a sealed chamber under pressure, which is neither like regular deep frying nor quite like pan frying.

Deep frying chicken the regular way always involves the risk of the steam coming out of the chicken (unless the pieces are rather small) shooting through the breading/batter. A pressure cooker approached is partly designed to finesse this problem.

Pan frying is more reliable for chicken because the top of the chicken is exposed to the air and allows the steam in chicken to "breathe out" more easily, as it were. Normally, one covers the pan for the first side being fried, and uncovers it for the second side.

[Sonofagun]

Although pressure cooked is the way it is done at the restaurant, I have done it all 4 ways and the chicken always comes out great.

Pan frying is the way Colonel Sanders originally cooked it, until he found out a way to speed up the process by pressure frying. Deep frying will give you a crispier, 'drier' coating similar to Popeye's or KFC Extra Crispy. Just remember to brine the chicken if deep frying.

Brining will guarantee you super-moist and juicy chicken even if you deep fry. Here's the brine I used to use when deep frying this chicken:

2 Cups water
1 Tablespoon salt
1 Tablespoon white vinegar

Mix ingredients in a large Ziploc bag and add 8-10 pieces of chicken (1 chicken's worth). Make sure to brine at least 2 hours. I used to leave it overnight.

Deep fry for 12 minutes at 325F.

If pan-frying, place about 1/4 inch of oil in pan with tight-fitting lid. Fry each side on medium-low heat, covered for about 20 minutes each side. For crispier chicken, cook an additional 2-5 minutes per side uncovered.

If oven-baking, no need to brine. Just mix half milk and half cooking oil with the eggwash. When you flour the chicken, let it set about 15 minutes before putting in oven. The coating should be saturated before cooking. Cook for about 25 minutes per side in a 375F oven.

Even though you need to pressure fry if making 'authentic' KFC, all of the above methods will still give you the taste at home without the need for extra equipment.

NOTE: Remember to completely rinse and dry the chicken after brining. This will ensure the chicken will not come out too salty and also ensure the egg wash sticks properly.

[Atochabsh]

I've heard TV chefs comment that they roast the spices. So I'm wondering if you combine the spices, ground them if needed together and then roast them before adding to the flour?

[Sonofagun]

Turns out great deep fried. Read my note below on brining. For a quick fix, try making nuggets out of skinless, boneless breast meat. Pound the meat to tenderize before cutting into nuggets. No need to pressure fry or deep fry with this method. Just pan fry them! Yum!

[alkapal]

i'll take boneless chick breasts, make into paillards, then bread and pan fry. they are super crispy goodness and are easy, quick, and make a darned good sandwich, too! i still want to use scuzzo's wafflemaker technique on these. i love the original kfc flavor, and look forward to using this recipe info.

[smilingal]

sonofagun - I am intrigued with your KFC recipe. Will I find summer savory in the spice aisle in the supermarket? Green cardamom as well? And 1/8 tsp of bay leaf - I have only purchased them whole - does it come ground?

[Matahari22]

I have seen summer savory in the bigger grocery stores. The green cardamom is best purchased whole, and then ground as needed. You can get it ground as well. If you cannot find it in the regular spices, sometimes it can be in the international section, with Indian foods and spices. I am not sure I have ever seen ground bay leaves either. I like to buy whole spices and then grind them with a coffee/spice grinder I bought at the kitchen shop for $9.99. I think it's worth it, because the whole spices last longer and the freshly ground spices taste so much better.

[porker]

ground bay leaf is available. perhaps not at the grocery, but i always ordered it from resto purveyors.

[MsDiPesto]

I'd be curious to hear how it compares to the real thing if anyone ever gets the desire to make a batch.

[jumpingmonk]

Something else I bumped into which I though woud be interesting.
When I wander around NYC I have from time to time popped into one or another of the small delis and picked up a little something from the steam table most of them seem to have to tide me over. In at least two places it seemed to me that the coating they were using (which in both cases seems to be breading they made themselves) tasted eerily like the KFC regular formal as it was some years ago. This is interesting enough on the chicken but the real fun thing are the places that use it on things like the squid (I guess that is also KFC, "Kentucky Fried Calamari!"

[Cathy]

The key ingredient missing is the cooking method. The Colonel did not want to pay to use the proprietary Broaster method (www.broaster.com) and instead invented his own machinery to prepare the chicken (very similar to broasting). Have you ever noticed you never got an improperly fried (dried out) or day old oil-tasting piece of chicken from KFC...ever? Nor has a piece from any location been teaming with oil along with that rancid-ish flavor...

If you have tried the fish snacker (available a lot during Lent) it does not taste like it was fried in chicken-y oil and the chicken never tastes fishy?

The spices for the Original Recipe do seem unique, but to me it is the preparation that makes KFC different than other fried chicken.

[alkapal]

"broaster" post-dated the colonel, though, right?

[Cathy]

He cooked with pressure frying at his restaurant (in the 1930's) and the Broaster was patented in 1954. From what I have read, the Colonel wanted to expand his number of restaurants did not want to pay the Broaster company to use their machines and instead patented his own pressure frying machine.

In any case, the method of preparation combined with the spices is what makes the chicken taste the way it does, not the spices alone.

[Kelli2006]

The non-chickeny fish snacker could be due to using a dedicated [pressure fryer for the fish instead of using common machines for all proteins.

I have doubts about the use of that much MSG because there would be more complaints about Chinese food syndrome.

[The Professor]

Not so sure about 'more complaints'...
"Chinese Food Syndrome", that is, extreme sensitivity to MSG, is actually a pretty rare thing.
It's true that some folks _are_ clearly sensitive to MSG, but it's evidently not nearly as widespread as everyone seems to think. There is just as much (if not more) MSG in most regular processed and canned foods in general as there is in some Chinese food. Many people who think they might be sensitive are either mistaken, or have simply decided that they are sensitive because of media sensationalism about it.

As for me, I try by and large to avoid the stuff, but I don't really worry all that much about it. Some foods actually do benefit from small quantities of it. It's really a matter of individual opinion and taste.

[dmd_kc]

The Professor -- YES! Check out many of your everyday snack foods. MSG is in a HUGE number of Western foods.

My favorite anecdote: My cousin regaling with me of her inability to eat in Chinese restaurants because of her extreme sensitivity to monosodium glutamate -- as she was eating a big ol' bag of Cheetos.

http://www.fritolay.com/our-snacks/cheetos-crunchy-cheese.html

Chinese restaurant syndrome is a mass-hysteria, attention-whore, vaguely xenophobic/racist myth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/din...

There are indeed some people who are sensitive to the stuff. They are very rare. There is zero scientific question at this point.

[Karl S]

And the neurology of expectation is such that who think they should be having a reaction are more likely to have a self-induced reaction.

[The Professor]

"Chinese restaurant syndrome is a mass-hysteria, attention-whore, vaguely xenophobic/racist myth."

LOL! This is the best explanation of the phenomenon I've ever heard. Thanks for expressing it so perfectly.

[Kelli2006]

I don't have a problem with MSG and I use it in moderation in certain dishes.

[rainroosty]

Right on, Kelli. I agree with you on that, and I've never found anyone yet that agrees with us, LOL! MSG has it's uses. I've actually not ordered at chinese places before because of reading "we do not use MSG".

[jgg13]

Even if they say that, they probably still do. My understanding is that this means, "We do not add MSG as an ingredient ourselves", and does not at all mean, "none of the ingredients we put in contain MSG". Very key difference there.

[alkapal]

many agree with you (like me), but are tired of participating in the "ooooooooh we hate msg" debates.

[anniemax]

My problem with him, and others like him who write copycat recipe books, is the fact they lie about food allergies to get info: "Other times, I'd tell the waitress that my wife had severe food allergies and that I needed to know the ingredients in the dish. Sometimes, I'd get a full list right there!" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32027188/

It can be hard enough to get accurate information from restaurants, let along food manufactures; especially if you don't have one of the 'Top 8' allergies. Some manufactures want a letter from your doctor before they will even talk to you. Gee, why doesn't he park in the handicap space too when he goes to get his food? To me, lying about an allergy to obtain recipe information is equally as bad.

On another note, according to the KFC History (http://www.kfc.com/about/history.asp), Sanders opened his first restaurant in 1930, with 1940 listed as the 'Birthdate of the Original Recipe.' MSG didn't come to the attention of the US until WWII and wasn't introduced to the US until 1948 (by the Army) and was only widely available beginning in the mid-1950's. How can Accent/MSG be one of the original 11 herbs & spices? Sander's wasn't running a big company, he was still just cooking in his only restaurant at Corbin, Kentucky.

[alkapal]

annie, while your facts may be correct (and i have no doubt they are), there is no claim that the MSG is "original" -- just the spice blend. i guess he thinks accent helps everything. ;-).

(and i don't condone lying about allergies).

[jumpingmonk]

when William Poundstone (a.k.a. the "Big secrets Guy") got his hands on a sample of the "mix" they used for the KFC breading and had is run through labratory analysis, salt, pepper,flour and MSG were the ONLY things found in it. This isn't to say that there weren't 11 herbs and spices in Col. Sanders orginal fried chicken recipe just that there di not apper to be any others but the above four in the current batter.

[alkapal]

the KFC chicken doesn't taste like it used to, that's for sure. i like to use everglades seasoning in the seasoning flour for tasty and quick fried chicken tenderloins.

[Davwud]

Let's face it, when a food item is that old, it no longer uses the "Original" recipe. The suits will have had their way with it.

DT

[The Professor]

That's the truth.
I have a long list of favorite products (or former favorites) that have been around a while and tout themselves as "original" , either implied or implicitly labeled as such, when it is very obvious that they have been tinkered with. Very prominent on that list is "Aunt Jemima's Original Pancake Mix"...the real original was quite different (both ingredients and taste wise) than what is sold today under that name and which I no longer purchase. The ingredient panel from an old box (pre-1980) and a bit of experimentation made the reverse engineering of the formula simple enough. This has been my routine solution for old favorite products which have gotten the dreaded "new and improved" treatment or were discontinued altogether. When I see "new and improved" or "great new taste" on a label, it's usually the kiss of death.

[Kajikit]

All I can taste in KFC is msg and salt... I wouldn't be surprised if the 11 spices were salt and more salt.

[KTinNYC]

The rumor has long been that there are fewer then 11 herbs and spices in KFC. Just by looking at the list of ingredients I'd say this is recipe is way too herbaceous.

[reenasweets]

I found a similar recipe at http://www.kfcchickenrecipe.com/
But which one is better?

[alkapal]

that list makes sense to me...

let's see, it's about:
3 T spices
1 T salt (including onion salt)
2 T MSG

i think that would season, what, around 3 C flour? that wouldn't be reddish at all.

wouldn't anyone just dip the chicken in egg or buttermilk, then dredge in the flour, then fry it up?

i'm glad to know the "secret" chicken spice-blend -- and i'll love to eat that chicken with my KFC-clone cole slaw!

[Sam D.]

Even if the seasoning ingredients and measurements are correct, this still leaves a lot of guesswork.

What's missing is directions for applying the seasoning mix to the chicken. Is the mix supposed to be sprinkled directly onto the chicken? And if so, is the chicken supposed to be left standing for a certain time? Or is the seasoning mix supposed to be combined with the flour or whatever is used to coat the chicken? And if they are to be combined, what are the correct proportions of seasoning mix and flour?

[Davwud]

Interesting. I've never gotten a chili taste from it and if you look, 1/3 or the ingredients in this are red and their chicken doesn't seem to be all that red.

DT

[Will Owen]

I would suggest that the "chili powder" is really powdered chiles. I routinely use powdered ancho instead of paprika when I make my version of chicken paprikash, and it gives a deeper, more robust flavor, but not what you'd think of as "chili".

[jwg]

I disagree with blogger who questioned the inclusion of chili powder. I once fried three chicken and in my haste, reached for the papricka and grabbed the chili powder by mistake. It was the best fried chicken I had ever made. Now, it's one of my standard ingredients in the shake.

[JK Grence the Cosmic Jester]

In how much flour, a 50 pound bag?

[The Professor]

This probably tastes good, but doesn't look like it would taste like KFC. The chili powder is the deal breaker for me, and even the oregano is a little iffy.

The highest proportion ingredients in KFC seem to be salt and pepper. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a trace of cinnamon in there as well.

[Karl S]

I would say nutmeg would be more likely than cinnamon. It's a very useful background spice for poultry and pork rubs when kept slightly less than noticeable.