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Short Trip - 3 Questions (MSP)

Hi, all --
NYC 'hound here and I've been perusing your board for a bit now. Let me first say I have new-found sympathy for all of you who bemoan the fact of so many states sharing one board. Boy does it make searching difficult! I would guess it's even a pain for regular users. So when the Powers That Be at Chow start talking new boards, you have my vote. :)

On to the questions ... A quick trip to Minneapolis and St. Paul has come together for DH and me. We've got some things pretty well planned (I've been using these two threads as guides: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/610897 and http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/624355 which have been great). We are also doing a 1-day side spin over to WI for a "cheese tour" using our handy dandy Wisconsin Cheese Map -- thank you, MplsMary.

But we have 3 questions:
1) is there anything noteworthy to eat at the Metrodome? I read on one thread that more ice cream is sold there than any other stadium. Is there a local favorite inside the stadium? If there's nothing of note re: food inside, is there somewhere right outside that would be good -- local/funky/fan-fun/whatever?

2) on many threads here I've read about the Mill City Farmers Market. The NY TImes recently had a blurb about the St. Paul Farmers Market -- as one of the oldest continually operated in the country and one of the largest. Both seem to be on Saturdays. Since we will have limited time before our flight out on Saturday afternoon, would you recommend one over the other? Which would have more things that we may not see here on the east coast/NYC? We prefer mostly food (produce, cheese, dairy, even prepared foods) over arts/crafts or tchochkes.

3) mentioned on several threads were Muddy Pig, Happy Gnome, Blue Door, and Old Town Tavern (sorry if I've gotten any names wrong). DH is very into local craft brews, cask conditioned ales, etc. Which of these -- or any others? -- would you recommend?

Thanks for any help you can provide. Oh, and as NYers we are used to walking everywhere or using public transit and we'll have a rental, so whatever you recommend should work for us.


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  1. 1. nothing too striking at the dome. If you want to address #3 on the day of the dome, there is the Town Hall Brewery that isn't too far from the dome.
    2. depending where you are staying would maybe dictate. The St. Paul market is primarily food and flowers. All merchants have to live within 50 miles of St. Paul so it is truely local produce. Haven't been to the Mill City market.
    3. You should try a Summit or Surly for local craft beers. Those should be found at most local places. Or, see #1 above.

    2 Replies
    1. re: liesel

      Ah, thank you. Town Hall is probably what I meant and misremembered the name. Too bad about the Dome.

      On Friday night we are seeing a game, so we will be staying not far from there. Then Saturday we have the morning to "play" before heading to the airport. We didn't think either market would be hard to get to, though I guess Mill City is really right there?

      1. re: LNG212

        Since you are going to a game, the only thing I can recommend is to be picky about where you buy your beer. Each stand has a flavorful option. Sometimes nothing special, but some of them have Summit or James Page brews. It is the same price as the generic Millers and Buds so if you are going to get a beer, might as well find one that is tasty.

        Famous Dave's is the only semi decent food there but isn't particularly special. I'd maybe suggest going to Spoonriver as a place to eat near the Metrodump. Or the new seafood place at the Guthrie (sea change I think?) Maybe sanctuary or spill the wine? Either way Washington Ave is your best bet with a couple of neat spots near the Guthrie Theater.

    2. 1) There is nothing noteworthy to eat at the Metrodome, nor is there anything in the immediate area. Your best bet is to use to the light rail to and from the other end of downtown, where your options increase exponentially.

      2) I'd opt for Mill City. Plenty of local produce, dairy, meats, and prepared goods, and the location is very cool.

      3) From a pure variety standpoint, Muddy Pig or Happy Gnome have exhaustive beer lists. Blue Door has plenty of local brews to try, and also a great list of Jucy Lucys, a burger stuffed with cheese that is popular here. For a place that has its own brews, I'd recommend Barley Johns in New Brighton, especially since they have the Rosie on tap.

      2 Replies
      1. re: kevin47

        "the other end of downtown" -- okay, so I guess I don't have my geography down yet. :) Does the other end mean sort of going down Nicollet (I guess that's southwest-ish)?

        DH was interested in the Jucy Lucy. Maybe we'll just see where we are since I've mapped the location of all three of those spots. He definitely wants to try local stuff (and we've never seen Surly or that sort of thing here).

        Thanks to both of you.

        1. re: LNG212

          My advice is this. Park somewhere near Nicollet Mall and 6th. A basic city map should get you to the vicinity, and you will have no problem finding parking, either by ramp or lot. Aim for a 5:30 dinner time.

          From there, hit our Downtown board for a recommendation.

          After, hit the light rail (which runs down 5th street... any waiter should be able to tell you how to get there) and head East. There's usually a crowd headed to the game. Cost is 50 cents each way.

          Don't go to Hubert's. It's a nightmare before games, and, rest assured, the Humphreys do NOT go there.

      2. hi, welcome to msp

        as far as i know (i am not a sports fan), the food at the HHH metrodome itself is typical sports arena fare: average and overpriced. i would second Liesel's rec of the town hall brewery for some better than avg-good food and interesting brews. alternately, or in conjunction, you could check out hubert's bar, across the street from the dome. it is the epitome of a local independent sports bar, with all the memorabilia and jerseys and such all over the walls. a warning that the place tends to be packed before and during sports events, but it may be of interest to you. it is very "fan-fun" as you say but i have no idea if the food or drinks are any good-- again i am not the biggest sports fan, sorry :)

        i heart both the mill city and st paul FMs, but they are very different markets. st paul will be mostly local produce, flowers, a few prepared foods, a lot of pastured/local meats. it's a serious shopper's market. if you go there get the hungarian pepper bacon from bar 5 to take home. mill city has many more crafts, which does annoy some folks. but it also has more certified organic/sustainable farms and more of a festival atmosphere. there is a local chef demo at 10 each week and usually live music or performers. *lots* of prepared foods. at mill city, buy real wild rice and wild rice flour, & ames farm single source honey (get the melon for sure). also buy some castle rock chocolate milk (one of the best organic dairies in the country) in the glass bottle from the general store and slurp it on the spot so you can get your deposit back ;)

        with apologies to their fans, i wouldn't rec any of the bars you mention to an out-of-town visitor-- they really are just neighborhood joints or 1/2 step up from neighborhood joints, i don't think they are worthy of a special trip, though they are nice to have in your neighborhood. look for SURLY beer on menus throughout msp and partake. surly furious is a good introduction to the brewery. do not be afraid if this craft beer comes in a can, it is unpasteurized and refrigerated throughout the canning process so it is perfectly awesome in a can as well as on tap.

        don't forget to report on your trip afterwards. can't wait to hear about the fun-sounding cheese tour!

        1. This is all good feedback. Thank you, everyone.

          1. Everything you've gotten here has been pretty sound advice, a few things id add:

            1. the dome has no good food. what soupkitten describes as "typical" stadium food is about as dated as the dome's architecture - most modern stadiums have foods that are supposed to represent regional cuisines of their teams' cities, but you'll find none of that here, just the same old hormel hot dogs ("dome dogs")turkey brats and yellow goopy nachos. if i were you id pick up some bahn mi or other portable foodstuff and bring it in with you (drinks would be confiscated, but you can bring whatever you'd like in as long as its not liquid).

            2. mill city, hands down. i love the st paul market, and its closer to where i live, but if i were traveling and interested in "scene" as much as produce, mill city can't be beat. chef shack is really excellent, check the website to see if there are any food demos and be sure to stop at love tree dairy for a taste of whatever they're selling - especially the extra old cave-aged cheddar. the abbelskivers and momos are other highlights (seriously, i think a mill city mkt trip may be the best single experience you could get to feel what the twin cities food scene is all about).

            3. on the craft beer front Surly is definitely a great recommendation, you can read around about their offerings but the bender, cynicale, and furious are the most commonly found types, though bitter brewer is fairly prevalent as well. the coffee steeped bender is truly something else with an intense coffee flavor.
            Lift bridge and flat earth are other local micro's that you'll see if you check out muddy pig or happy gnome (and a few other spots) which are very good.
            Personally id skip out on summit, its not bad but its fairly mass marketed and a little old-school when it comes to local beer (is too big to be a micro, much more a craft beer, and while the epa is fine and ubiquitous some of their other options -seasonals excepted - leave something to be desired. Some non local but regional favorites that you may or may not see out in ny include Bells beers from Michigan (their summer oberon tastes like a nice day outside) and Capitol from madison, wi.

            11 Replies
            1. re: tex.s.toast

              tex.s.toast - thanks so much for such good suggestions. Very much appreciate knowing that we can bring our own food into the dome. Not all stadia allow that (we are actually used to that since the Mets have always allowed it). Maybe we'll find some interesting wares during our walks that day.

              And thanks for all the info re: the beer. DH is very excited. He had heard of Summit but none of the others mentioned. This will be really cool for him.

              Sounds like we'll be going to Mill City farmers market. I will be noting all of the suggestions mentioned in this thread. I dare say we will eat a lot before getting on that plane. And hopefully find goodies to bring home.

              1. re: LNG212

                As someone about to become a NY resident, things i will miss most include our awesome farmers markets (i know there will be lots of options there - i LOVE streetside produce, even when its decidedly not local) for the outrageous commitment to localism, thats what happens when you only get local fresh produce a few short months a year.

                also high on that list are local beers - surly flat earth being the two im most saddened to leave. people are almost as excited about beer here as local produce (and hey, you can drink it all year around). though you should note that if he wants to buy beer to bring home/to the hotel he should do it before 10pm in minneapolis and 8 pm in st paul, and not on sundays because we dont roll like that - puritanical blue laws will not make my list of things i miss.

                One other thing i will miss, which i have been hearing i will not get in such quantity or quality in NY (and im not sure which borough you live in, but ill give you points for being Mets people) is vietnamese food - nearish to downtown minneapolis on nicollett you will find a couple of much beloved places, Quang which is a sit-down place known for their soups (though not only pho) and Pho Tau Bay and Pho 79 which are, obviously, known for their pho. Jasmine deli used to be my go-to sandwich shop but they arent very authentic and are kinda pricey for what you get. Down a block or two (at about 28th street and Nicollett) you'll find Hoang Thiep Y (ok my spelling may be off) which is in a sort of mall type thing (it has no street frontage, but faces a parking lot across from a taco shop/mexican grocer) which is my new eat-street bahn mi stop - though i will say i think i got an old roll the last time i was there. Also very close is Jasmine 26 which is a bit more upmarket sit down and has a bar where you can get alcoholic bubble tea, and, most importantly, salt and pepper tofu worthy of even carnivores. In st paul my two favorite spots are Saigon, a humble place with a walk through sandwich line that makes, imo, the best bahn mi in town (also very respectable bun, noodle salads, and great grilled pork spring rolls). Across the street/down the block is Pho Ca Do, my go-to pho spot that serves only that, a little shabby but great soup. Also nearby to both of these spots is Ngon Vietnamese Bistro which is an interesting spot with really good food, a comittment to local and organic sourcing, a great local beer selection, and both fusion-y and traditional vietnamese items. Some have been somewhat unerwhelmed but i think they do what they do very well and searching the board will provide plentiful reports of what to order.

                A final note on the metrodome (we go to lots of twins games) the food options outside on the fan-pavillion thing will be, generally, better than inside, butonly slightly, you'd still do best to byo). Inside i can vouch for the soft serve sundaes/root beer floats since you mention ice cream in your OP, but it wont compare to the numerous higher end creameries around town (search for Izzy's, Sebastian Joes, Grand Ole Creamery, and Pumphouse to get an idea).

                1. re: tex.s.toast

                  Thanks again for some great info. I esp. like the way you approached it with "things I'll miss most". The produce/local/farmers thing is why we really wanted to see one of the big greenmarkets out your way. We've been to "fancy" ones like Pike Place in Seattle and the big one in SF but those seem so not "regular shoppers". And our experience here in the northeast is that most places don't compare to the big greenmarket in NYC (Union Square). So we wanted to see it "done right" so to speak. :)

                  We are Manhattan people but we do spend an awful lot of time in Queens with our poor pathetic Mets (and most years, yes, that is what we call them). The descriptions of the dome sound very much the way we would describe old Shea -- outdated architecture, terrible mass produced food, not reflective at all of the town in which it's situated. Things got much better (though not perfect) at new Shea. When you move here, you'll have to take a spin out there to check it out. We are hoping to take your advice and get some bahn mi or other interesting wares to bring to the game.

                  As for the Vietnamese restaurants, I'm certainly by no means an expert or really knowledgeable but I do enjoy it. Salt & pepper tofu sounds great. There are some places here that make their own tofu and such and it's supposed to be a real art. And *alcoholic* bubble tea, really? Now that would be cool. DH can't stand the consistency of the tapioca balls but I do love that stuff.

                  Thanks again and you'll get great recs over on the various city boards when you arrive. People are always helpful and there are some really knowledgeable hounds, esp. when it comes to various Asian cuisines. I think you'll spend a lot of time in Flushing! :)

                  1. re: LNG212

                    Though ive been professing my love for all things asian, as a native californian latino food is another passion - i'm planning on spending my birthday at the red hook ball fields as brooklyn will likely be my home.

                    on the farmers market issue - like i said above i grew up in SF so i have come to love the ferry plaza, and I would say that Mill City is channeling that ethos much more than a typical neighborhood market. In DT Saint Paul you will see people doing their weekly produce shop, with the option of buying a bagel/donut/coffee. Its great, and like i said, i love it and will miss it dearly. Mill city still has a great selection of local stands (if fewer that just do produce) but also has the types of things i look for when traveling and checking out markets - namely non-perishables and prepared foods to make a more complete experience out of a morning at the market. Go and enjoy, im sure you'll have a great time.

                    1. re: tex.s.toast

                      You'll love red hook ballfields. While NYC may not have as strong a Mexican pressence as, say, greater LA, it does have lots of carribean and south american food (colombian, ecuadorian, etc. etc.). We have friends who live in Carroll Gardens and we love that neighborhood too.

                      We are looking forward to Mill City market. And we are indeed hoping to come away with some goodies to bring home, both for ourselves as well as for gifts (our kitty sitter especially always appreciates the treats we bring back).

              2. re: tex.s.toast

                Seconding the Surly, it's so hard to come by outside of the Twin Cities and I swear I'm gonna figure out a way to bring a case of that stuff back to Texas. Every beer I've tried from their lineup is exceptional regardless of it being on tap or in a can. Coffee Bender is also my favorite, the creamy beer is full of caramel flavor, and it's so smooth and refreshing. OP has gotten plenty of great suggestions all around and I've also taken some notes for myself in the future. Props MSP 'hounds.

                1. re: air

                  <<Props MSP 'hounds.>>


                2. re: tex.s.toast

                  For the record, Hormel is a Minnesota-based company and they serve their "dome dogs" with Old Dutch potato chips, also a local brand. It's not very "chowhound'ish" and it doesn't represent the full breadth of local chow, but it is pretty "local". Also, it's apparently somewhat beloved among Twins fans.When they were doing research for the new stadium, they asked Twins fans what they would most miss from the Metrodome if it weren't in the new stadium. This was a general question, not a food question, but apparently the overwelming response was people really hoped they'd still have the "dome dogs" in the new stadium. Weird, but true.

                  Dairy Queen, which is where the very "popular" ice cream sold at the dome comes from, is also a local chain. Personally, I can't bear to wear in that long line for just a DQ ice cream, even if it is sold in a mini-Twins helmet, when it's the same DQ ice cream as found everywhere else in MN.

                  El Burrito Mercado has a stand outside the dome before many Twins games (they sell burritos, I think). I've never gone to the stand, but I've heard they have a hard time controlling the temp of the food, so, it's unfortunately, not the pretty good chow you'd normally expect from EBM.


                  1. re: The Dairy Queen

                    Dairy Queen, the breadth and depth of your chow knowledge never ceases to amaze me. (Like, I never knew that El Burrito had a presence at the dome!) It's good to know that there's so much "local" food available at the game.


                    P.S. Old Dutch potato chips are the only chips worth eating. (I'm a native Twin Citian who was weaned on these guys.)

                    1. re: AnneInMpls

                      The EBM stand is only outside the dome on the "plaza" before the game. It closes once the game starts.


                    2. re: The Dairy Queen

                      While all you say is true I have to register high pique that Blue Frakking Bunny is "The Official Ice Cream of the Minnesota Twins." Grrr. Kemps may blow but at least it's local(ish).

                  2. I'm going to focus on #3 because that's what I do. You would definitely be well served to hit Town Hall Brewery. It is one of the best brewpubs in the country. The beer to make sure you try is their IPA, called Masala Mama. It is consistently rated one of the best IPAs in America. They usually have it available on cask and it's even better in that form (in my opinion).

                    For other local beer, and as a way to get some good food as well, I'd recommend a trip to Ngon Bistro on University Ave. in St. Paul. Great Vietnamese/fusion food, but also a stunning beer list of entirely local offerings. They always have one beer on cask, which is usually a "special" beer not normally available on draft.

                    The Muddy Pig and Happy Gnome are two of the best beer bars in the area, though neither is especially noteworthy for anything other than their stellar beer lists.

                    10 Replies
                    1. re: mtullius

                      Cask conditioned IPA? I think DH will swoon. He likes IPAs better than most other styles (me, not so much into the hoppy, but I'm sure there'll be something I like too). Thanks for the endorsement of Town Hall. I just put a star next to that one on my list.

                      1. re: LNG212

                        I second Town Hall for its excellent beer, IPAs are near the top of my beer list, and Masala Mama and Surly Furious are among the best I've ever had.

                        It's important to note however, that Surly beer is not for sale at Town Hall, as they are a brewpub.

                        1. re: mmm789

                          Thanks. I figured that since it's pretty much the same here in those circumstances. And that's why we are figuring on stopping at one of the other places mentioned in the thread - after all, we have to try everything, right? :)

                          1. re: LNG212

                            Cask conditioned beers are pretty big around town and can be found in a variety of expected (brewhouses/gastropubs) and unexpected places (see my reference to Ngon Vietnamese Bistro in st paul - though it sounded like you were excited about alcoholic bubble tea)

                            1. re: tex.s.toast

                              Yup. I am excited about alcoholic bubble tea and what a perfect excuse to get DH to go there but that they have an outstanding local beers list!! It'll make both of us happy. Our neighborhood beer-geek place rotates their cask conditioned tap about once a week, so he tries to get there regularly and he's pleased with my research here so he can try some good stuff.

                              We're off in the morning ... can't wait.

                              1. re: LNG212

                                i like the kayak kolsch at ngon in the summertime. talk about a refreshing, easy session beer. if you hit ngon you can also check out the gloriously dingy but vibrant frogtown (vietnamese/hmong area along university ave), and then maybe come back to minneapolis via upscale grand avenue, where lots of hounds like to browse the food boutiques. pedestrian-friendly areas to walk around, as it sounds like you're inclined, include: the riverfront district (where mill city FM & guthrie theater are); the historic st anthony area on the other side of the river (do 'em both by walking across the stone arch pedestrian & bike bridge over the mississippi river, end with dinner at alma, maybe); the chain of lakes in uptown (nosh at lucia's or barbette before/during/after; "eat street"--south nicollet avenue; nicollet mall downtown (closed to car traffic, lots of bars/street cafes of varying quality).

                                (i also want to second the above recs for *masala mama,* specifically, at town hall brewery). i am glad to see MTullis joined the discussion because his beer recs are very good. have a nice flight.

                                1. re: soupkitten

                                  soupkitten - thank you. I'm glad to know there's a refreshing summery beer at ngon too. That's definitely my style. And we were curious about the Hmong neighborhoods as we saw a couple of other threads mentioning this. We've got just about everything you've mentioned on our hit list, with the exception of an upscale dinner. We just decided not this time and so we're not packing any really nice clothes (just capri pants and shorts type of stuff for me). Someone else suggested a lemonade or drink after walking over the river and one of the other threads I've been watching talked about having a drink and small plates near Nicollet Mall (we just have to see MTM's statue - we loved her in Love Letters).

                                  You all have been so helpful. Thanks again.

                                  1. re: LNG212

                                    Just a few notes:

                                    I concur that Ngon Bistro would be a good spot. They have a great selection of local beers, and always one special cask beer on tap.

                                    We are casual as soupkitten said, so if your dance card isn't full and you do feel like something more upscale, I'd recommend Restaurant Alma.

                                    And -- I'm not sure the MTM statue is still there. Hasn't that been taken down? Don't think I've seen it in years.

                                    1. re: karykat

                                      Restaurant alma would be my first pick for showing an out of towner what nicer twin cities dining is all about, and in fact i brought my tie-dye and cargo shorts clad father there about a month ago with no problems. except personal embarrassment which had little to do with him not looking formal enough, mostly it was about the way he acts.

                                      I believe you guys have left today, and have a pretty full schedule, but if you check this in time and have availability for another dinner, you should at least look at the online menu to see if it sounds like something you'd be into.

                              2. re: tex.s.toast

                                aach. Okay, I realize I got the places mixed up already. Local beer list is Ngon and bubble tea is Jasmine 26. Oops, my bad. I've fixed my notes and my memory. :)

                      2. The Mill City Market is a good place to go - you'll find berries, munchies, and lots of other local treats. Go early and go hungry! (We made the mistake of eating breakfast first.)

                        Try all the food samples, and you'll discover some great stuff - like the amazing single-source honey from Ames Farm and salted caramel macarons from the Sweets Bakeshop. If you like wild rice, be sure to get some from the Birchberry stand. It is the BEST WILD RICE ON THE PLANET. It's hand-harvested, traditionally toasted, and has the longest rice grains I've ever seen. It's rather expensive, but is well worth the money. This stuff is amazing - trust me on this.

                        When you're at the MCF Market, be sure to go into the Guthrie and up to the Endless Bridge. It's my favorite view of the Twin Cities. I also love walking across the Stone Arch Bridge, munching my treats from the market. (And, ideally, burning off some of those mini-doughnut calories!)

                        Re food for the metrodome: Me, I'd drive over to the Seward Co-op for picnic supplies. Look for herb-roasted chicken (sometimes), smoked whitefish from Duluth, great salads and dips from Holy Land Bakery, amazing bread from the world-class Rustica Bakery, and lots of great local cheese (I love Northern Lights Blue, which is made a mile away by a prof at the U of M St. Paul). Logistics note: You can get to Seward via light rail and the #8 bus (or a long walk up Franklin Ave), but it's a schlep. Depends on how much time you have. Me, I would drive.

                        And have fun on your "cheese spin" in Wisconsin! Isn't that Cheese Map great? Try to drive the back roads and minor highways - west-central Wisconsin is really, really beautiful when you get away from the freeway.


                        P.S. Capri pants are dress-up clothes in the Twin Cities; they'd be fine for Ngon (which isn't all *that* upscale of a bistro). In fact, shorts, tees, and sandals are good in all but the most fancy/expensive places. We're very, very casual here.

                        Seward Co-op Grocery and Deli
                        2823 E Franklin Ave, Minneapolis, MN 55404

                        4 Replies
                        1. re: AnneInMpls

                          Mmmmm, a local blue cheese? I hope we have time to stop over there to get some. We love blue cheese (one of our favorites is Rogue Creamery's Smoky Blue).

                          Thanks for the note re: attire too. We were unsure of how dressy a lot of places are during the summer.

                          1. re: LNG212

                            If you love blue cheese, three of the best in the country are made locally. Northern Lights, as Anne mentioned above, is delicious- it's made by a guy who used to work for the makers of my next rec. Faribault Dairy makes St. Pete's Select , aging it in St. Peter sandstone caves in Faribault (about 45 min south of the cities). It's a cow's milk blue, patterned after Bleu d'Auvergne. Big Woods Blue is made by Shepherd's Way Farms, in Northfield (about 40-45 min south of the cities as well), patterned after Roquefort so it's a sheep's milk. All three are very different, all three are very delicious (also the Friesago made by Shepherd's Way is one of my favorites.... but that may be because it is the cheese CG brought me on our first date).

                            Have a wonderful trip here!!!


                            1. re: cheeseguysgirl

                              I was about to post that they could be found at the mill city farmers market, but after checking their website i see they are already done with their ( incredibly short) season!

                              in case the dangling antecedents in my last sentence perplex anyone, the Mill City mkt is still on but according to Shepherd's way farms' webiste they are done with attending for this year :(

                              1. re: tex.s.toast

                                oh that's too bad. We will be hitting that market on Saturday and hopefully we will see some of the local cheeses.

                                (Yup, we are in your fair state now and I'm just doing a quick check in. I'll write a full report at the end of our trip.)

                                (and ps - in case you never saw that thread a while back about people's grammar and spelling, the general consensus was that who cares since we're all here for the chow!) hahaha :)

                        2. You can get a growler of Town Halls IPA for $15. Good stuff. I've been meaning to try some of the "coal fired" pizza from Black Sheep, but I think I walked the wrong way down Washington after the game. It was late and I'd had a few "bombers" of Summit EPA. I walked towards Town Hall and I think it was the other way.


                          1 Reply
                          1. re: KC612

                            Black Sheep is quite a hike from the dome, FWIW...

                          2. two local markets i thought of are the Mid-Town Market in the old Sears Bldg, and the huge Asian/Vietnamese outdoor/indoor market in Saint Paul (someone help me out with the name)- the food court inside has some authentic items.

                            1 Reply
                            1. re: bluesman13

                              I believe you're referring to Midtown Global Market on Lake Street in Minneapolis (at Chicago) http://midtownglobalmarket.com/ and the Hmong Market/Flea Market/international Market in St. Paul. Here's a link to a current discussion about the Hmong Market http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6253...


                            2. I am shocked that no one has mentioned Buster's on 28th Avenue and 42nd Street. Over 100 beers - and they do have Surly! All of the bread that they use (sandwiches, buns, etc) is made next door at the Baker's Wife Bakery. I highly recommend the turkey panini.

                              As for all of the other comments - spot on! The Metrodome does not have any notable food, Mill City is a top notch farmer's market and the Blue Door is good but it's tiny! Probably only 8 tables total.

                              Have fun!

                              1. MSP trip review

                                Let me start by saying we had a great time in the Twin Cities (and Wisconsin). Unfortunately, for us, our timing seemed to be a little off so we didn’t eat as well as we could/should have. But I think we did okay. We may be back next year (opening of the new stadium), so we’ll keep a list of places we missed on this trip.

                                Here’s a round up:

                                **DAY ONE (Tuesday) – St. Paul**
                                From the airport, we headed over to the St. Paul Saints game. We had seen an episode of Bizarre Foods (just by coincidence) on MSP and fried foods. Since we were at the ballpark, we figured we would use this as our “fried foods day”. We had fried cheese curds and mini donuts. After the flight, maybe we were just hungry or even dehydrated, because these things were great! The batter wasn’t too heavy and they weren’t greasy, just salty, cheesy little morsels. They hit the spot. Who knew mini donuts were such a big thing? I got them right out of the fryer and they were piping hot. Once cooled enough to eat without burning ourselves, they were actually not bad. DH had his first Summit Extra Pale Ale (on tap) and I had the 1919 Root Beer – he liked the Summit and I tasted it too and liked it, very easily drinkable; the root beer was pretty good, not cloyingly sweet like some. The vendor t-shirts amused us. “It’s all fun & games until someone loses a weiner!” and “[map of Minnesota] Land of 10,000 cheese curds”. We also chatted with some people sitting near us who gave us a recommendation for Wisconsin too.

                                After the game, we went over to the Muddy Pig on our way to the hotel. This turned out well since it was pretty close to the Cathedral of St. Paul which we wanted to see. We ended up just relaxing here for quite a while. The first bartender we had was not friendly but then he went off shift (maybe he just had a long day) and the second bartender was quite friendly and gave us her opinion when we asked, which we appreciated. DH’s favorite was the Surly Furious – so thank you all for recommending that one. His second favorite was the Rush River Double Bubble. He also tasted the Bitter Woman IPA (Tyrenena) which he said was just okay. I was very glad that they do small glasses (I guess those are ½ pints or maybe 12 oz.) because there was no way I was going to get to try an assortment otherwise. I very much liked the Surly Cynic (so I guess Surly is an overall hit with us). I also tried the Flat Earth Sunburst (apricot) (it might have been called Oberon) which I enjoyed; it was light and refreshing and clean-tasting. I also had the Lift Bridge Farm Girl Saison, a wheat beer, which I found just okay. It was more lightly flavored than I guess I generally like/expect. We also ordered some appetizers to snack on. The food was not particularly good. We ordered the smoked salmon, which came with dark bread and spreadable herbed cheese, and the olive tapenade, which came with toasted baguette slices and the same spreadable herbed cheese (perhaps it was Boursin or something similar). While the dishes weren’t bad, and they certainly were big enough, they just weren’t noteworthy in any way. The bread was actually not very good on either dish. But since we enjoyed the beers so much, we decided the place was worth it.

                                We couldn’t believe that we had flown in just that morning. And by evening, we were pretty beat. So we just walked/wandered around the downtown St. Paul area for a little while. We walked past Mickey’s diner – it definitely looks like an institution. We probably should have stopped for a milk shake or something just to say we did, but alas, another time. DH wanted to try Great Waters Brewing. It’s a lovely space – that plaza-type outdoor area where all the restaurants have seating outside (reminds us a little of Stone Street, downtown here in Manhattan). The beers here were not to our taste. Neither DH nor I liked either of the beers we ordered – the Cask Rye PA was so bland and tasteless and the Kaiserweiser alternated between being nearly tasteless when cold and unpleasantly sour when it warmed up a little. We didn’t finish them. The food unfortunately was seasoned by someone whose tastebuds must be dead. DH ordered meatloaf (it’s his thing) which he said was so spicy that you couldn’t taste the meat (and he likes his hot sauce but this was too much). I ordered a wild rice burger. The waiter swore to me that it was made with local wild rice and “hand crafted” but I have no idea if that is accurate. It actually would have been a pretty flavorful and nice meal if they hadn’t doused the thing in “Cajun aioli”, which I tried to scrape off. There were probably 3 tablespoons of the stuff – that is just too much dressing for any “burger”. DH did enjoy the vegetable medley side dish which had fresh string beans, and they were really fresh and still crunchy. Mine came with a side of spicy potato chips which were pretty tasty and very crunchy.

                                We pretty much walked a little bit more and then collapsed at our hotel. We were planning to head out quite early in the morning for our Wisconsin cheese tour.

                                1. **DAY TWO (Wednesday) – mini cheese tour of Wisconsin**
                                  Thanks again to MplsMary for the Wisconsin Cheese Map info. Our handy map steered us to five places. We also got to drive the country roads and just relax for the day. We ended up needing a real map of Wisconsin, though, since all the small roads were very confusing (we’d never seen county roads with letters rather than numbers).

                                  -- First stop Ellsworth Cooperative Creamery (Ellsworth) – about 100 years old; bills itself as the “cheese curd capital of Wisconsin” and we tend to agree. Of all the curds we sampled, these were the most flavorful. I’m not sure I’d ever seen a creamery factory before – it was huge! We watched the tanker trucks pull in too (the cooperative began with 30 dairy farmers in 1908).

                                  -- Second stop Eau Galle Cheese Factory (Durand) – since 1945; hard Italian-style cheeses were their specialty and these were certainly better than the other kinds of cheeses available. This place had the most sampling available – pretty much everything they carried and that was a lot! The “chocolate cheese” was gross but apparently is popular since we saw something similar at other places. Their flavored cheese curds were awful (ranch, garlic, etc.) though the plain were okay. Their parmesan was okay (but we’re used to Parm-Reg so that might explain our lack of enthusiasm for theirs). Their asiago was quite good with a nice little bite to it; so we bought a hunk to take home. We also picked up a bottle of Sprechers root beer for the car ride.

                                  -- Third stop Nelson Cheese (Nelson) – historic 1800s building; patio area with wine/beer. The old building was really neat and the store was quite something – wine, beer, cheeses, breads, condiments, etc. They also made sandwiches and such. We decided to buy their Nelson Cheese, some lamb sausage, a baguette and a couple of beers. DH loved the lamb jalapeno summer sausage while we both thought the cheese was rather bland. It had the consistency of a Monterey Jack and tasted a little like Monterey Jack and a little like Munster (the American kind, not the real kind). But it was hard to tell since the flavor was kind of insipid. But the setting was lovely – brick patio, shade trees, lovely breeze. The baguette was actually quite good with a nice crust and a yeasty interior. We each had a New Glarus beer – DH enjoyed his Fat Squirrel (a red ale) and I found the Dancing Man Wheat refreshing on a warm day.

                                  --Next up, a detour to Chippewa Falls for the Leinenkugel Brewery tour, recommended to us by the people we met at the Saints game. This was really fun since the brewery is so old and on the tour you get to go into a lot of old spaces. Each person also receives coupons for tastings at the end. We had tried a can of the Honey Wheat at the Saints game and thought it was horrible. So our expectations were rather low. We tried the Red Lager (pretty good, malty), the Creamy Dark (also pretty good, mellow), the Classic Amber (I did not like but DH did because he likes hoppy), and Original (rather bland, like a Bud or some such thing). Even though we didn’t love the beer, we enjoyed the tour and the history.

                                  -- Hungry for something non-cheesey and semi-healthy, we just stopped in at a random place for an early bite while in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Galloway Grille is where we ended up and we had big salads. I had a New Glarus Totally Naked (not nearly as good as the wheat) and DH had a Capital Amber (just so so). The salads were fine for what they were – large beds of romaine with assorted veggies and such on top. We were most astonished at the pricing – two large salads, one pint, and one large beer and we were out of there for 20 bucks. Holy cow that’s cheap!

                                  --Fourth stop Cady Cheese Factory (Wilson) – since 1908; viewing window where we watched for maybe an hour. The viewing area was very cool. First we saw the tail-end of one batch where the whey was drained and the curds pressed into cheese cloth-lined things. Then we actually watched part of the next batch where the whey/curd mixture is put into a giant shallow trough-shaped thing. The whey/curd mixture shoots through piping and then big arms stir it. We were kind of glued to the windows there for a while. This place had the second best of the curds we sampled. We bought a 1 lb bag and ended up noshing on most of it in the car.

                                  --Fifth stop Bass Lake Cheese Factory (Somerset) – factory built in 1918; their specialty is juusto liepa, a Finnish cheese (iirc, it means “bread cheese”). It sounds in texture similar to haloumi in that it can be grilled or fried and maintain its shape. We bought some to take home and they gave us a “cooking ideas” page to go with it. The oddest suggestion is to cut it into cubes and drop it into coffee! We haven’t opened the package yet and there were no samples of this specialty to be had so I cannot as yet comment on its flavor. We also bought a “butter jack” but, again, have not opened it yet.

                                  Our cheese day over, I am thinking at this point that I will not be able to have any more cheese for the entire time we are here.

                                  1. **DAY THREE (Thursday) – Minneapolis**
                                    We drive into Minneapolis from Wisconsin. DH is a big music guy and has a couple of places of “music history” that he wants to check out. So we drive to see some Bob Dylan stuff and end up in the “Dinkytown” neighborhood. Where does this name come from? It seemed like a neat little area, though we didn’t stop to eat.

                                    On our way to our hotel we realize we just passed Town Hall Brewery. Aha! A quick u-turn and we decide to stop there first. Awesome suggestion, thank you. There was so much to choose from and, in chatting with the bartender, we realize we should just do flights. Unfortunately, the flights weren’t choose-your-own. But then we figured out that if I ordered the House Sampler and DH ordered the Seasonal Sampler, we could pretty much swap out and get exactly what we wanted. Solution achieved (and the bartender laughed heartily with what he termed our “serious negotiating”). So I had the lager, the pub ale, and the Scotch ale from the House and DH had the Masala Mama IPA and the oatmeal stout from the House. I had the apricot wheat and the Belgian blonde from the Seasonal and DH had the Columbus pale ale, the Mango Mama, and the jack frost from the Seasonal. The lager and pub ale were good but I really liked the Scotch ale which sort of surprised me since it was pretty strong. It had a nice malty toasty taste to it. The Belgian blonde was good but I really liked the apricot from the second set. I wish I could have tasted this apricot side-by-side with the one from the day before. Basically, in the winter I’d be ordering the Scotch ale and in the summer the apricot. DH loved the Masala Mama, just like you all suggested. He liked the two darks just fine but I think in the summer they were just too much. He also really liked the Mango Mama – he loves mango and the bartender said it uses the Masala Mama as the base and since the mango wasn’t overwhelming, this all makes sense. He liked the Columbus Pale Ale too, though not as much, because, as he said, it’s even getting a bit too hoppy for him (I tasted it and cringed). Since DH wanted something else, we asked the bartender to make a recommendation. He had the Masala Mama as a cask ale. DH was in heaven. As for me, he gave me a taste of their root beer (I think it was called Prohibition root beer) and it was wonderful, by far the best of the trip so far. The taste I had had almost no fizz, very smooth, rich rootbeer flavor, clean tasting. So that’s what I ordered. It comes in a very large mug. The mug serving was much more fizzy – the bartender said he poured it from a different tap (interesting). I commented that the more syrupy one would be awesome over ice cream and he told me it’s their most popular dessert, the root beer float (it sounds like root beer floats are very popular in MSP). We also got an order of the fried green beans. I was surprised at how much I liked these. The breading was pretty light (what we would get on fried zucchini here) and I could really taste the green bean, as long as I stayed away from the dipping sauce. The sauce, though tasty, definitely overwhelmed any green bean-y taste they had. We also loved the space. The tin ceiling is great (we have tin ceilings in our apartment) and it’s so airy and open. We were disappointed that we didn’t make it back here for a second go-around.

                                    After we check into the hotel, we decide to just walk around. We had to find Mary Tyler Moore too. So we head over to Nicollet Avenue and stumble into what turns out to be the regular Thursday Greenmarket on Nicollet Avenue. What fun. We totally didn’t pay any attention to the shops or restaurants on Nicollet Mall, instead we were focused on the array of vendors. I have to say that a lot of things caught my eye:
                                    --those are the biggest pattypan squashes I’ve ever seen! And they are green too.
                                    --I guess vendors aren’t restricted as to what they can sell since we see bananas and pineapples which can’t possibly be local.
                                    --some vendors have signs stating “locally grown”. Does that mean that the ones without the signs aren’t local?
                                    --some items (cucumbers, kirbies, tomatoes, string and wax beans) are sold in little baskets whereas here those things would be in bins and then you purchase by weight.

                                    I really wanted to shop but DH kept reminding me that we weren’t at home and wouldn’t be cooking. That was tough to walk up and down that stretch and not buy anything. The tomatoes especially looked really wonderful (see the ongoing blight problems here in the NE with the tomatoes).

                                    We also see the set-up for an orchestra concert that evening. That looks quite lovely. Then we see a sign for Nicollet Avenue “eat street” with a map marking restaurants and stores. We are headed to the Black Forest Inn (DH is determined to see the Richard Avedon-signed print on the wall with the bullet holes in it; plus he likes German food) so we decide just to walk the whole way down “eat street”. I have to say we were a little disappointed in this. Maybe we should have gone down more side streets because what we saw along Nicollet going from the mall down to Black Forest was scant.

                                    But we found Black Forest Inn before the rain hit and for that we were glad. They have a pretty nice garden and it turned out to be their “Weinfest”. So we ordered a bottle of Spatburgunder 2007 Pinot Noir (Fritz Allendorf it said on the bottle) which was drinkable but not noteworthy. We probably should have gotten a dry reisling. We shared an appetizer of sautéed mushrooms (made probably with wine and with red pepper and though it said garlic we didn’t taste that) which was quite tasty. It was served with dark bread – I don’t think it was rye because there weren’t any seeds and it had a little bit of that malty taste that a good pumpernickel has but wasn’t as dark. Whatever it was it worked really well to soak up the mushroom juices. DH had the Thursday special of Konigsberger Klops (meatballs in a white caper sauce over spaetzel). I had a watermelon gazpacho made with reisling, a lentil/spaetzel cold salad, a pickled radish salad, and a side of spaetzel. We also ordered a side of German pretzels to share but they never came out, which we should be glad about since there was already so much food. DH was glad that the capers weren’t very strong in the sauce and he said he thought the Klops were a mixture of meats and were very very good. I very much liked the gazpacho. It was the brightest hot pink and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen hot pink food before! It still had some chunkiness to it, with watermelon, tomato and onion pieces giving it some bite. The wine gave it a nice tang. The lentil salad tasted mostly of lentils and vinegar and was fine. The radishes were really good – I’ve come to like radishes this year it seems (see the home cooking thread on ideas for radishes!). They were very thinly sliced and pickled so they had a tart and peppery flavor together. While DH liked his spaetzel, I was disappointed, I think because his had a gravy on it and I ordered mine with just butter. I guess at this place they don’t sauté the spaetzel. Usually when I’ve ordered it with just butter, after it is boiled it is sautéed in a pan with butter so it gets that nice pan fried-ness to it. This wasn’t like that – it was just the boiled spaetzel with a pat of butter on top. We were too full for dessert but because it was weinfest they had a man in the garden pouring tastes of all kinds of German wines. Nice touch. (It was at this point that I realized something about myself – I like chatty bartenders and I do not like chatty waitstaff. And it seems on this trip we were getting it sometimes right and sometimes not so much.)

                                    We had intended to stop in at Jasmine 26 which was just across the street as we were leaving so that we (or really I) could try the alcoholic bubble tea. But we were so full after our dinner than we just couldn’t do it. Another notation for “next time”.

                                    1. **DAY FOUR (Friday) – Minneapolis**
                                      We walked from our hotel, through Nicollet Mall and over to 3rd Avenue. We stumbled across Dunn Brothers coffee and decide to have some. Not bad – it tasted a little bit burnt to me but after the horrid hotel coffee we’ve been drinking it’s a nice change. We walk over the 3rd Avenue bridge to St. Anthony Main. A lovely little area. Unfortunately, nothing is open! I guess the combination of us being still on eastcoast time as well as being early risers didn’t do us any favors here. We would have liked to enjoy one of the outdoor cafes that we saw. So we did the little nature trail walk and walked down to the Power Plant area but still nothing was open. So we just continued on our way – over the Stone Arch bridge to the Guthrie and Mill City Museum.

                                      We really liked the Mill City Museum tour and the history of flour and the Pillsbury dough boy and all that. I was surprised that no mention was made of the flour sack dresses/aprons/etc. that I learned about here on CH from a thread about it. Oh well. I copied down a recipe from one of their bread books for Summit Beer bread. Once it gets cooler out, I’ll give it a whirl.

                                      Friday night is our Metrodome night. So it’s all about the baseball. Yes, we did stop in at Hubert’s. After I told DH about it there was no way he wasn’t going to stop there. :) Luckily we went early enough that it wasn’t particularly crowded. So I had a seltzer water at the bar while he had a Summit and walked the room looking at the memorabilia. No, we did not eat any food there. Then we went over to the fan fest plaza area. How funny that you can drink in public as long as it’s on the plaza (I suppose it’s controlled that way?) and that you can enter and leave the stadium (really different than here, as was the security, or lack of it). We made the mistake of having fried cheese curds. Ugh. These were greasy and overwhelmingly dough. Not good (as though I’m the expert now!). DH also decided to try a Gluek’s (sp?) beer. Icky. Not good at all. So he stuck with Summit (both tap and bottle) once we got inside. Wandering at the fanfest a man came over to us and said, “So how was cheese in Wisconsin?” Totally strange! And then it turned out to be the man with whom we chatted at the Saints game. People really are nice here. DH and I also chatted with some guys who were running a stand for your local tv (channel 45, iirc). If you could guess 3 shows they air, you won a frisbee. I won because I guessed that they air the Saints game. Yay. Then they gave me a Pearson’s Salted Nut Roll. When I asked what it was they went a little nuts. You don’t know what a nut roll is? You’ve never had a nut roll? So they gave me about 6 or 8 to take home. I’m finally eating one now. Not bad. Salty, peanuty. What is the nougat inside? It tastes like there’s caramel too. Not bad.

                                      The only thing we decided to get while inside was ice cream. We did notice that root beer floats were popular and that there were different soft serve ice cream places but they looked like they were serving the same ice cream. It was pretty good soft serve – like Dairy Queen or Carvel or something. At least they had wafer cones – some places have given up wafer cones in favor of those giant waffle cones which I just don’t like. I must say the thunder outside while we were inside the dome was really cool.

                                      1 Reply
                                      1. re: LNG212

                                        RE: salted nut roll--yes, there's definitely a layer of caramel. As far as the nougat, I think it's just sugar (or maybe corn syrup or both) and vanilla. Here's a list of the ingredients in a salted nut roll: Peanuts, Sugar, Corn Syrup, Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Reduced Lactose Whey (milk derived), Salt, Coconut Oil, Natural And Artificial Vanilla Flavoring, Soy Lecithin, Soy Protein, Invertase, And TBHQ Added To Help Protect Flavor.

                                        Thanks for the great report back!


                                      2. **DAY FIVE (Saturday) – Minneapolis**
                                        Our last day here and we know we have to get to the airport by about noon. So we get up early and head over to the Mill City Farmers’ Market. We are so happy that we got there early – it was relatively not crowded yet and we could chat with the vendors. So many samples and so many cooking set-ups. Our greenmarket has some jams (usually the orchards) and honeys (the bee guy) and such but I’ve never seen so much actual cooking going on. It was a lot of fun. We had the abbelskivers – both apple and chai (the apple was better) and tasted a lot of cheese. We picked up some of the Shepherd’s Way Big Woods Blue – wow is that awesome. We also got coffee from one place next to the abbelskivers (I think they said it was from their family farm in Guatemala but I don’t recall the name) which was the best coffee we’d had all week. And refills for $1 woohoo!

                                        I spoke with a man selling wild rice. I could swear he was the one on that MSP episode of Bizarre Foods where they hand-harvested wild rice. But I didn’t ask. We did pick up some but I haven’t cooked it yet. We also chatted briefly with someone at the “Classic Tailors” stand where they had the flour sack aprons! It was pretty cool to see that and they had aprons and skirts and children’s clothing too. We very much liked the jams at Lucille’s Kitchen Garden, especially the rhubarb-strawberry-basil. I chatted with the woman at Ames Farm about the honey. We did like the melon (delicate and sweet) and the basswood (a little peppery) and got both. TAKE NOTE: important for all of you who recommended it to me – the woman said that this may be the last year for the melon honey. She said the man whose melon farm (heirloom varieties) that they use had just died and they weren’t sure what was going to happen with their arrangement. I was also interested in what I was told was New Zealand spinach. It looked so different but dark and leafy green and like it would be really good. (So maybe next time when we come out this way, we have to get a hotel with a kitchen!)

                                        We even got enough goodies from the market to make a little thank you gift bag for our kitty-sitter. It included the Ames Farm melon honey, Caramels from Edna’s (both plain and almond), the rhubarb-strawberry-basil jam from Lucille’s Kitchen Garden, and espresso chocolate chip shortbread cookies from Bramblewood. Our kitty-sitter was thrilled.

                                        So thanks to all of you for your suggestions. We had a great time and we are looking forward to returning to the Twin Cities maybe next year. We’ll be keeping our list of all the places we didn’t get to.

                                        1. Just wanted to add one other thing ... each time I suggested something, DH would ask: "Is this from those Chow people?" and then afterward would comment: "I think I love those Chow people". How cute is that!

                                          9 Replies
                                          1. re: LNG212

                                            Wow. I can't believe how fabulously detailed your report was. Thanks!

                                            It's so cool to view where we live through a vistor's recounted experiences. And, thanks to you I am going to make the big leap and drive on a freeway bridge over water to Wisconsin and get me some dang cheese. It has nothing to do with the bridge collapse - I am just a paranoid weirdo certain I'll lose control and fly off a bridge while driving. It puzzles me, too. And nobody wants to go with me - in their car - so they can drive. Fancy that.

                                            I have beer loving friends with whom I'm going to share your report. I'm certain they'll be tickled to read your impressions of so many beers.

                                            Glad you enjoyed your stay.

                                            1. re: MplsM ary

                                              Glad you had a good experience and all the beer commentary had me drooling, especially over the root beer. Very good descriptions. I didn't get to try the Prohibition nor 1919 on my last trip and that pushed me over the edge. Also Town Hall is a great stop, the casked ale there is very delicious!

                                            2. re: LNG212

                                              great reports-- thanks so much for taking the time :)
                                              come visit us again soon!

                                              1. re: soupkitten

                                                We're hoping next year, new stadium and all that. :)

                                              2. re: LNG212

                                                thanks for the detailed report! maybe i should surprise husband with a cheese tour :)

                                                1. re: Ummm

                                                  Oh definitely do. And if you have more time than we did, go further into WI -- the cheese map lists some fabulous sounding places. We just didn't have time to go much beyond the border.

                                                  Also, Ellsworth (the town) had banners from their annual Cheese Curd Festival. Apparently every June. I would have liked to have experienced that.

                                                  And Mary - I totally get you. I used to always get a little jittery when leaving Manhattan in one of the tunnels (underwater). But heck, I live on an island and if I don't get beyond that, I'd never leave. :)

                                                  1. re: LNG212

                                                    I suppose except for the fact that Citi Field isnt in The City you could probably do alright to never leave.

                                                    Again, thanks for the thorough report - I look forward to partaking of your advice when i get out to ny shortly, and you definitely left enough to do next time to come out and see the new stadium (though you'll have to consider weather! ha! hooray outdoor baseball - though today is NOT a good day for it)

                                                    1. re: tex.s.toast

                                                      Yes, weather! There will definitely be plenty more to do on a return trip.

                                                      As for newShea (I love the tshirts that state "I'm still calling it Shea"), it is in the city. Just in the boroughs. Many people refer to just Manhattan as the city (my family did too, living in the Bronx), but that's technically not true. I'm sure you know that! :)

                                                      1. re: LNG212

                                                        i thought that my use of capital "T" capital "C" The City made it more apparent i meant manhattan, but yeah, i know the boroughs count too.